0 |
Subject: Vick in trouble again
Posted by: wiggs
- Sustainer [04991311] Fri, Apr 27, 2007, 12:13
Vick Dog Fighting |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
41 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 14:00
|
True enough Frick. I long ago ceased "counting", the nr of criminals caught and successfully prosecuted, using their own video of their "escapades". I'd venture someone will turn "states evidence", and provide the video to ease the prosecution of the "big fish". Unodubtedly, that video will find its way to youtube.
|
42 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 14:02
|
...but out side of the throwing the dog on the ground to kill it, i would not consider it really torture...
I'll wager heavily, that you'd consider it torture if YOU were put in the pen with one or two of these animals.
|
43 | Tree
ID: 3533298 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 14:38
|
boikin -
i really do not see how that is political answer, is your mind that one track.
you brought up PETA, acting as if those who thought what Boikin did belonged to this group - you may not have said "dumb liberals," but the implication was clear. YOU brought the politics into this.
as for the shooting and electricuting i was just making the comment that if you are going to kill an animal there are much less humane ways than that.
the point is apparently so far beyond you, i'm not sure you'll ever grasp it. these were animals that needn't have been in that position in the first place. they were placed in danger by ignorant humans.
what happened to these dogs is disgusting, vile, and any human who treats that animals like that, in my opinion, would have no problem acting that way toward a human. Children that torture animals in such a manner tend to grow up to be serial killers, so why is an adult doing it even remotely acceptable.
quite frankly, any person who doesn't see a problem with what doing what Michael Vick has been accused of is sub-human, and i'd much rather see that person get shot, electrocuted, or drowned than an innocent dog
If you are so troubled by the death of dogs why don't you stop posting and go down to the local humane societ and adopt every dog there that is about to be killed.
and if you knew anything about owning a pet, you'd know that taking more animals than you can handle into your home is probably more inhumane than an animal being put to sleep.
But when i have welcomed a new pet into my life, he or she was certainly adopted, and not bought from a pet store.
As peta protesting law breaker as of right now the only crime vick is guilty of is being owning the house where dog training and fighting appeared to happen at.
Actually, Vick isn't guilty of anything. he hasn't even been tried yet.
Bottom line - your attitude and devil-may-care attitude about this disturbs me tremendously.
perhaps you find it perfectly acceptable for someone to beat, shoot, drown, or electrocute your spouse and children?
|
44 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 14:41
|
perhaps you find it perfectly acceptable for someone to beat, shoot, drown, or electrocute your spouse and children?
C'mon Tree. You had a sound and solid argument going, until you tossed in the strawman at the end.
|
45 | Perm Dude
ID: 386132511 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 14:51
|
Here here.
Go to the link I posted in #38, and start reading about page 4 of the indictment.
No need to say anything more.
|
46 | Tree
ID: 3533298 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 16:50
|
You had a sound and solid argument going, until you tossed in the strawman at the end.
while i can understand that opinion, to me, it's not a strawman. my dogs are my children, and i know i am not the only person who feels this way about their pets.
i adopted them, i brought them into my home, i feed them, and they depend on my to take care of them. they are no different than children in that respect, nor in the heart of many dog owners.
|
47 | Perm Dude
ID: 386132511 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 17:01
|
Yes, but you are projecting your feelings onto someone else.
My guess is that someone who doesn't have the same level of feeling about pets as you do would look upon their spouse or children in a different light. And there is nothing wrong with that. But you imply there should be.
|
48 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 17:54
|
I completely agree Tree, with the sentiment that ouor pets are as dependant upon us as are our youngsters. But that opinion on my part, doesnt hold acorss the board, and thus the projection (well put PD), creates the strawman since boikin never said anything of the sort.
|
49 | boikin
ID: 59831214 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 22:07
|
you brought up PETA, acting as if those who thought what Boikin did belonged to this group - you may not have said "dumb liberals," but the implication was clear. YOU brought the politics into this. Is this what you think that i think? I mean is your mind really that one track, well then i guess this fact would make me a "dumb Liberal" i support green peace and several other eviormental organizations. In realtity i think that PETA equals dumb vegans.
ow and pett are not dependent on people i know of several cats in neigborhood that survive quite well with out their human masters.
|
50 | Tree
ID: 26562518 Wed, Jul 25, 2007, 22:30
|
i know of several cats in neigborhood that survive quite well with out their human masters.
and, again, if you knew anything about maintaining a pet, you'd know that having a cat outside is not a wise idea, for all sorts of reasons.
anyway, the bottom line is that you made this political with your PETA comment, and then you compounded things with the fact you seem to be showing support - or at least acceptance - of Michael Vick's actions.
|
51 | rockafellerskank
ID: 51281619 Thu, Jul 26, 2007, 23:37
|
I had an interesting moment this past weekend. I was watching "Rebel without a Cause" The opening seen has James Dean, Natalie Wood and others including Sal Mineo in a police station. All are being "talk to" for juvenile behavior. James Dean was drunk, I think Natalie had a fight with her family and broke curfew. Sal's character "shot a puppy" --- I'm serious!!!!!
My observation, was how times have changed (yes for the better). Apparently in the late 50's shooting a puppy was akin to juvenile mischief as the nice police office "talked" to Sal and he was released to his family's nanny.
I also seem to recall movies from my childhood where "Dad" drowns puppies ina sack to get rid of the unwanted litter.
Just odd. I don't think animal cruelty laws are more than 20-25 years old. I suspect that there are millions of people in the USA that killed animals as youth who are now appalled at behavior they once engaged in. I'll bet my Grandpa killed more than a few dogs. I have no point here, just an observation or few.
For the record. If Vick is guilty, he should be punished IMO.
|
52 | Perm Dude
ID: 48622711 Fri, Jul 27, 2007, 12:17
|
More shrillness by the "dumb vegans".
Man, what ever happened to the days when what happened between a man and his pony wasn't dredged up by do-gooder vegans? What happens in the barn, stays in the barn...
|
53 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Fri, Jul 27, 2007, 14:36
|
Reading the indictment was very interesting. Outside of the physical evidence at the house that Vick owned (to which Vick denied having anything to do with), you have 4 "CW's" (Cooperating Witnesses) that place Vick AT dog fights representing "Bad Newz Kennels", including going to his rig and pulling out a duffle bag full of cash to pay off a $23,000 dog fight loss. There is ONE account where Vick directly was involved in the cruelty to a dog that was being killed, if memory serves.
Of course, these witnesses were directly involved in dog fighting as well. So it will be interesting to see Vick's lawyers pull out the "rat defense" (amongst anything and everything else they can pull from their bag of tricks), stating that these witnesses are 'making up' stuff about Vick in order to save themselves from prosecution. If Vick's lawyers can't shoot down the witnesses' character, he is a dead duck and, at a MINIMUM, will be nailed for organizing and betting on these dog fights.
|
54 | Perm Dude
ID: 48622711 Fri, Jul 27, 2007, 14:44
|
Word is that the government will file an amended indictment. The noose appears to be tightening around Vick.
|
55 | boikin
ID: 59831214 Fri, Jul 27, 2007, 15:51
|
Tree please explain this anyway, the bottom line is that you made this political with your PETA comment so basically you like to stereo type others think and then after they tell you that you made mistake you let them know that you are still right and you are still right. since it appears you can read people minds i would think that could put those talents to better use that posting about people here. I am not sure why i bother trying to rebuke you but all i was saying was that i was surprised by level of dog loving going on here you are the the only one making that into any kind of political statement. maybe you should reread post 49. when i said cats with out owners i meant wild cats and maybe you like rats living near you i don't and i have seen the wild cats kill quite a few, so maybe it is not good to have wild cats but at least my chances of rat infestation goes down. then again don't you live in the city tree what do you know about the outside.
As for vick he is done guilty or not he is probably seen his last days playing even there is like some kind of we made mistake we meant micheal Vick the mechanic not micheal vick the NFL quarterback.
Now that i have totally lost my credibility in here I did find something about the crime that has yet to be commented on anywhere and that is fact that he reportedly started his dog fighting operations his rookie season, the question i have is when did he really start, i mean you do not get into dog fighting over night i would assume he had to be into for year or two. this would mean that he was doing it in college, did VT know about this? How many others are out there? i mean in college. i find the idea that college football players betting on underground dog fights as being a real problem.
|
56 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 354152921 Fri, Jul 27, 2007, 20:20
|
This may be one of the funniest things I've heard about in some time...
Newport News plans "community hug" for Michael Vick
|
57 | GoatLocker Sustainer
ID: 060151121 Sat, Jul 28, 2007, 10:27
|
PD, My wife said that yesterday on TV, the comment on the Ammended Indictment was that it would include Racketeering charges.
Don't have a source, just what she heard.
Cliff
|
58 | Perm Dude
ID: 1625288 Sat, Jul 28, 2007, 11:46
|
No kidding? Wow.
Unfortunately, many people seem to be lining up on this issue around racial lines.
|
61 | Action Figure
ID: 420372221 Sun, Jul 29, 2007, 11:52
|
"The Reverend Marcellus Harris says the community wants to emphasize Vick's right to due process and that the rush to judge him is premature."
I agree but he cut off all his hair so dew process doesn't really work well any more.
|
62 | Perm Dude
ID: 156523010 Mon, Jul 30, 2007, 23:43
|
Co-defendent rolling on Vick and others.
|
63 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Tue, Jul 31, 2007, 15:44
|
The opinion of this Sports Attorney on ESPN.com certainly doesn't bode well for Vick. When the attorney says Taylor's plea is "terrible news for Vick", you KNOW it's bad because these guys don't tend to exaggerate.
|
64 | Boxman
ID: 571114225 Tue, Aug 07, 2007, 07:26
|
Now your dogs can get revenge on Mike Vick; actually a rubber likeness of him.
Mike Vick Chew Toy
The Official Vick Dog Chew Toy
Is it different you ask? You bet it is! The Vick Dog Chew Toy is made of state of the art "dog" material. The Vick Toy Doll is so strong and flexible, it will challenge every breed. Especially The Pit Bull.
Unlike Vick, our manufacturer is so sure of its durability they guarantee it against the most playful dog destruction. It Bends. It Bounces. It Flies. It Floats. And best of all, it lasts through the whole season and more!
|
65 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Tue, Aug 14, 2007, 17:28
|
boy...he's in BIG trouble this time. roflmao
$63,000,000,000 lawsuit filed vs M Vick
If it werent so clearly abuse of the system, that would be hilarious.
|
66 | Toral
ID: 575542418 Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 00:14
|
Jim Brown, greatest RB of all time and black activist, says on Toronto FANradio/simulcastRogers sportsnet that Michael Vick should "lose his career" if the allegations of cruelty are true.
Toral
|
67 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167 Thu, Aug 16, 2007, 12:25
|
How many innocent people consider a plea deal?
I'm not saying it's proof he's guilty, but I don't know many innocent people who would take this long to consider a plea deal... much less consider it at all.
|
68 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Sat, Aug 18, 2007, 16:32
|
Vick plea deal "likely"?
Falcons owner Arthur Blank said Friday that, "It seems to be a pretty clear indication there will be some sort of plea entered."
|
69 | Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 14:53
|
Vick has agreed to plead guilty this afternoon and accepts full responsibility for all charges against him according to ESPN breaking news.
|
70 | Perm Dude
ID: 22740208 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 14:58
|
I think he'd only plead guilty if he was able to keep playing football (even if he has to sit out a year or so).
|
71 | Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 15:00
|
A Legal expert who is familliar with the case said that Vick didn't negotiate, but he surrendered to all charges to plead guilty so the superceding indictment would not be brought today. The judge has full authority to hand down the maximum sentence even if there were a "deal" so it really doesn't matter he says. The racketeering and other charges that were to be added today would have meant severe jail time apparently.
|
72 | Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 15:06
|
Federal sentencing guidelines means that you serve a minimum of 85% of your sentence.
From what they are saying he will likely spend over a year in jail. Maximum apparently is 5 years in jail and a $500K fine.
The state of Virgina is now coming after the four guilty men for at least fines, but the legal expert said he may bring criminal charges but his guess is that he will let them plea and escape added jail time once the fines/probation or whatever have been made.
|
73 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 15:32
|
I wonder what all the supporters will say now. I'm guessing it won't be, "There should be more role models like him." or "I know he loves animals. Why he would throw them in a ring and try to kill them, I don't know."
Some of the details that keep making their way into the news are just downright grisly.
|
74 | Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 15:38
|
Roger Cosack says that he must serve 87%, but says that perhaps the last 10% or so may be served in a halfway house. The judge is very tough when it comes to sentencing. He says Vick had no chance to win at this trial. Plea aggreemnets are guidelines but he says typically judges follow the basic guidelines. Defendants may not appeal, but the government can. Since Vick is the mastermind of this entire deal, so that will add points onto the sentence. He feels that he will get away from those points. No prior felony conviction from Vick. He says the judge will unlikley takc on omre than 6 months onto the plea deal to be announced next Monday.
|
75 | Species Dude
ID: 07724916 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 16:23
|
Taking everything on the original indictment was a smart move if it meant the heavier racketeering stuff did not get handed down. Smart move by Vick.
It will be interesting to see the NFL's take.
|
76 | rockafellerskank
ID: 51281619 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 16:47
|
Just because the RICO stiff didn't come down in an indictment, that won't stop the NFL from conducting their own investigation and acting according. I'd be willing to bet (pun intended) that Vick will be banned because of the gambling. I'm mean, Leonard Little killed a person, but at least he didn't bet on it. Add in the fact that by the time Vick gets out in 1-3 years (est.), the NFL will be even more PC and sensitive. Regrettably another person with a once-in-a-lifetime talent wasted it. He won't be the last.
Anyone want to give odds ATL goes after him in court for some signing money back? Vick could end up broke.
|
77 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167 Mon, Aug 20, 2007, 17:26
|
I don't know if Vick will get outright banned by the NFL, but it wouldn't surprise me. Personally, I imagine a 2-3 year suspension (given Pacman Jones' 1-year suspension without a conviction) would be a minimum. Whether or not that's concurrent with the jail time is another question.
Anyone want to give odds ATL goes after him in court for some signing money back? Vick could end up broke.
Let's just say I wouldn't take the odds AGAINST them going after some of his money. I would be very surprised if there weren't "conduct" clauses in his contract that they could use against him.
Given that a lot of players end up broke anyhow, it definitely wouldn't surprise me if Vick ended up broke after this is all said and done.
|
78 | Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 00:14
|
NFL Network's Adam Schefter reports Michael Vick's expected suspension will likely not kick in until he's done with his jail sentence.
Schefter says Vick will be suspended anywhere from one year to a lifetime. If he only gets a one-year ban, Vick could play that season in the CFL or AFL if he's still intent on getting back to the big leagues. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution believes Vick will formally be suspended next week.
|
79 | biliruben
ID: 4911361723 Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 01:26
|
Say it ain't so, Mike
It's unbelievable, unimaginable, that a football player, or anyone associated with that noble sport, would be sullied with the savagery and cruelty of dog fighting. In dog fighting, players are raised and trained to attack other players on the principle that winning is the only thing. Successful fighters are given a luxurious life, with the best of food and comfortable living conditions - until someone better comes along, at which point they are killed, a splendid economy of pension costs. This is inevitable because they are given no life skills outside the game itself, such as chasing frisbees or being tickled behind the ears or playing in the lawn sprinkler with kids, and a ruthless selection and winnowing process reduces their numbers by factors of ten along the way. The whole enterprise is carried on for the amusement of a fan base that gibbers after physical attack and injury, the while reciting pieties about sportsmanship and skill. In dogfighting, the paying audience has no interest whatever in the moral standing or personal qualities of the contestants, as long as they fight and win. Finally, dogfighting supports an industry of illegal gambling embroiled with organized crime and therefore with drugs, prostitution, and the like.
|
80 | holt
ID: 41512278 Tue, Aug 21, 2007, 05:04
|
He is done. If this were some random DB or OL or something like that then I could imagine there might be a prayer that he could play again, but a QB is held to a higher standard. The QB is the face of the team. This isn't something that people are going to forget.
|
81 | wolfer
ID: 24148211 Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 10:07
|
Re 78
If Vick is suspended, the CFL is out. Thanks to a certain running back.
|
82 | The Judge
ID: 42725229 Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 10:26
|
I heard on Mike & Mike yesterday that, including signing bonus and lost salary, his actions have cost Vick around $85,000,000.
To me, to risk that much money on ANYTHING bordering on ILLEGAL or IMMORAL just ain't worth it. Heck, I would even give up my drinkin' and my drivin' to keep that much money (and no, I don't do BOTH at the same time).
|
83 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167 Wed, Aug 22, 2007, 16:25
|
It's not a matter of what Marbury said, it's when he said it.
Right now is probably NOT the best time to come out and say that you feel dogfighting is okay. Particularly if you're a highly-paid professional athlete.
|
84 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Fri, Aug 24, 2007, 16:04
|
NFL Reports strong sales of Vick's 2008 Jersey
|
85 | holt
ID: 41512278 Fri, Aug 24, 2007, 20:09
|
LMAO!
|
86 | Frick Donor
ID: 3410101718 Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 13:37
|
And again....
Vick test positive for marijuana
Well I'm guessing anyone who took the never plays in the NFL option of your local office pool is feeling better after this story. I some how doubt that Goddell is going to just let this slide or be covered by his prior suspension.
|
87 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Wed, Sep 26, 2007, 16:30
|
and his woes continue to compound....
Royal Bank of Canada sues Michael Vick for 2.3 million dollar loan default
TORONTO -- The legal woes of former NFL superstar quarterback Michael Vick took an unexpected Canadian twist yesterday as the country's biggest financial institution, the Royal Bank of Canada, revealed in court documents it's suing the suspended Atlanta Falcons quarterback for more than US$2.3 million.
The Toronto-based bank, which also does business in the U.S. South under its RBC Centura banner, is arguing Vick's guilty plea on federal dogfighting charges and the resulting impact on his career have prevented him from repaying money he borrowed.
Vick borrowed $2.5 million from the Royal's private banking arm in January, with plans to use the money for real estate investments, the Toronto-based bank said in the lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in Newport News, Va.
Vick, from the Virginia community, now lives in Hampton, Va.
Details of the Royal Bank lawsuit came yesterday as Vick was also indicted on state charges -- on top of his guilty plea last month on federal charges -- related to a dogfighting ring operated on his Surry County property in Virginia.
In its lawsuit, Royal Bank said the loan's terms specify any employment change reducing Vick's income constitutes a default on the loan.
"The defendant has been suspended by the National Football League from his employment as a quarterback for the Atlanta Falcons, or his employment is otherwise in jeopardy as a result of a plea bargain agreed to by the defendant in connection with criminal charges stemming from his involvement with a dog-fighting ring," the legal filing said.
Vick, the bank alleges, also failed to "promptly provide" a semi-annual personal financial statement, as well as disclosure of his liquid assets.
Yet Vick has taken certain advances from the term note, accruing interest and other fees or costs, the filings says.
Royal is demanding "immediate payment in full" of $2,313,694.37, plus $499 in interest a day, starting Sept. 19, as well as lawyer's fees.
poor, poor Michael....
|
88 | biliruben
ID: 17502215 Thu, Sep 27, 2007, 14:16
|
Can you really blame him for smoking-up?
|
89 | wolfer
ID: 24148211 Fri, Sep 28, 2007, 12:50
|
Another day, another lawsuit.
What else?
|
90 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 3498611 Tue, Oct 09, 2007, 21:21
|
Arbitrator says Vick should pay back $20M to Falcons
Ouch.
|
91 | Ref Donor
ID: 539581218 Mon, Dec 10, 2007, 18:02
|
23 months sentence.
|
92 | Frick Donor
ID: 3410101718 Mon, Dec 10, 2007, 19:03
|
I heard a couple of reasons for the longer sentence than what the others got.
1. Was that he tested positive for smoking marijuana. 2. He told conflicting stories about the marijuana. He told one official that it was a couple of months before the test and told an FBI official that it was the day before.
|
| Rate this thread: | If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time. If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating. If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here. |
|
|
Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
|