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0 Subject: Pats run up the score

Posted by: artforthehall
- [309203017] Tue, Oct 30, 2007, 19:28

I haven't been to the board for sometime and I thought I would find a post about this.

I am a biased Skins fan, but the pats ran up the score. He should have just kicked the field goal, Gibbs would have because he has class. The Pats don't care who they piss off, but it will come back and bite them at some point. And I will predict it happens against the Jets, when the Pats are up by 50 and they are still passing. Brady will still be in the game because they are trying to set a scoring record and td pass. Jets will send everyone and take a unsportsman like penalty, but Brady will have to pay. If the Pats continue to run up the score, Brady is going to receive some cheap shots.
I understand it is the defenses job to stop the offense, but just kick the FG or run plays in a row. Maybe the Pats wanted to send a message to the colts with the score. Just don't complain when someone takes a shot at Brady because it will happen.
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178WiddleAvi
      ID: 25102616
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 09:46
Sarge in reply to 166.

I don't know how many teams would kick a FG I think most would go for it on 4th but regardless it may lift the morale of a team NOT to be shutout in game. But I don't think it makes much different to teams morale if they win in a blowout by an extra few points.

As for the timeout question you are kidding right ? Definitly not a sportsmanship issue. This was a kick to win the the game. He is trying to freeze the kicker. Now whether the NFL should change the rules about those last second timeouts is a whole other issue.
179Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 09:48
And in a tight game you do whatever you can to win the game.

Rubbing it in is a whole different thing. Thats being a sorewinner.
180Perm Dude
      ID: 110228
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 10:02
Does B own part of the team? Is it his money?

That's not the definition of any manager I know of. You are describing an owner or investor. The Coach is still part of management, regardless of whether it is Kraft's money or not.

As for the shutout question of sarge's, I think Widdle nails it. Teams don't want to be shut out, and getting some points on the board is a moral victory of sorts.
181sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 10:09
The derision re the bonuses, is indeed laughable. If the owners were so gddmn hesitant to pay them, why doesnt Minn sit A PetersoN?

Peterson in line to earn millions in bonuses

The simple fact is, its ALL about winning and getting a Championship. At the income levels of an NFL franchise owner, $2,000,000 or even $10,000,000 doesnt hold the financial impact of 10-Grand to the rest of us. Its about bragging rights, achievement and ROI. Champions fill the stadium seats and those ticket/merchandise/etc sales, are what pay those bonuses.


So re 166...the one issue isnt even about sportsmanship? Neither is this, though many have chosen to frame it as though it were.

Another question for those who who claim its unsportsmanlike...How many of you have NE players in one or more of your FFLs? How many of those, have contacted their league commish, and said that they dont WANT the 4th qtr points, because those guys shouldnt have been playing anyway? And if they were, they shouldnt have been passing. If you havent, then either you're a poor sportsman yourself, or you're a hypocrit. Take your pick.

Back to 166...if it isnt poor sportsmanship to kick a meaningless FG and lose 41-3 instead of 41-0, but ruining the Ds shut-out, then it cannot be poor sportsmanship to win 41-3 instead of 27-3. The two are the flip sides of the same coin.

Coach B isout to prove a point, and this weeks discussion re this game, occuring on multiple forums, is serving that end. Its his NE team against the world, and thats just what he wants.

Prediction for Sundays NE-Indy game:

NE: 38
Indy: 17
182E'ville
      ID: 159183011
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 10:18
I think the point should be considered about the difference between defense and offense. I'm taking this in the greater sense of sports and life in general.

The purpose of an offense is to attack and do damage and rightfully so. The function of a defense is to protect yourself from damage.

You never at any time lay down your defense and intentionally absorb damage but on the same token unless there is a necessary purpose why continue to inflict damage when there is no value in doing so. Most extreme blowouts in professional sports are partially because of defensive scores when the opposing offense is gambling.

Actually the diffence between defense and offense is the same as the difference between trying to win a war and genicide. You protect your own to the very end, but you don't try to hunt down and kill every last enemy to make a point.

Just a thought....
183Perm Dude
      ID: 110228
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 10:22
The simple fact is, its ALL about winning and getting a Championship

Yes. it is. And when the outcome is in doubt we all agree that teams can kick and claw for the W. What we disagree on is, when the game is no longer in doubt that the team should continue to pummel their opponent.

So you believe that Peterson's playing time is driven by the need for the Vikes to pay his bonuses? I think it has to do more with his value in getting them victories. And if the Vikes were up by 3 scores late, do you think Peterson would be out there because the Vikes want to get him a bonus? What a joke. Sorry, but that argument doesn't go anywhere. Management (top to bottom) is never going to go out of their way to get players a bonus. The players earn them on the field.
184sarge33rd
      ID: 99331714
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 10:29
Contrary to your statement PD, the comparative is spot on. Minnesotas season is no longer in question. They are not making the playoffs. Aint gonna happen. So why risk injury to the only real Offensive weapon you have?


I didnt see the game in question, but did WASH start playing all their backup defenders when the game was "no longer in doubt"? If not, then NE has every right to keep their best on the field, against Washingtons best. And even if WASH DID play backups, there is nothing compelling any team, to play less than their best on the field of competition.

You want to whine, cry and snivel about what "bad sports" NE is? Go ahead. They dont mind. They'll take your name calling, all the way to the bank.
185Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Fri, Nov 02, 2007, 10:51
They really didn't have enough players healthy to do so at that point.
But Redskins players such as Daniels did have a problem, saying flat out that Belichick was running up the score.

Of course, the Redskins didn't have the ability to stop it. Their defense entered the game short-handed and left beheaded. Fred Smoot, the team's third cornerback, couldn't play because of a hamstring injury. Linebacker Marcus Washington was limited to passing plays because of a sore hamstring. On the Patriots' first touchdown drive, starting cornerback Carlos Rogers suffered an injury that could range from a sprained MCL (out for a few days) to a torn ACL (lost for the season). Linebacker Rocky McIntosh also was injured.

Consequently, the Redskins lost their opportunity to match up with the Pats' top four receivers. Gibbs had just three true corners left on the active roster -- Shawn Springs, Leigh Torrence and David Macklin. Brady completed 29 of 38 for 306 yards and three touchdowns.

To make matters worse, Gibbs and the coaches lost their communication system during the game. They couldn't work the headsets.

"There were issues," Gibbs said. "It's a problem across the league. I don't want to use that as an excuse for what happened to us today. We'll just continue to let the league know what happened to us today, and we'll just have to see how they deal with it."

Belichick was aware of the problem but, naturally, didn't care. He was communicating his own way -- sending a message to the 31 other teams that the Pats will take no prisoners.
186wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Sun, Nov 04, 2007, 16:34
wow, even the lions know enough to play their subs.
187Great One
      ID: 201155199
      Sun, Nov 04, 2007, 16:56
JT O'Sullivan and TJ Duckett in the 4th?! yeah I'd say they know how to finish off a game when up 40 points lol...
188Texas Flood
      ID: 353452713
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 08:50
At the end of the game when Brady was kneeling down killing the clock, I could'nt help but think how easy it would be to fake and throw a TD.

Give the Pats thier due. They came into the Colts house and whipped em fair and square.

189Great One
      Sustainer
      ID: 053272014
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 09:00
Yeah, what was the deal with the kneel down?! there were still points to be scored! :)
190wiggs
      ID: 6825712
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 10:29
They came into the Colts house and whipped em fair and square

You have to be kidding me. They Whipped them? Down by 10 with 9 minutes left. They won, and I give them credit for that, but i wouldnt say they whipped them.
191Perm Dude
      ID: 22105557
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 10:45
I agree. Great game by the Pats, but a "whipping" implies a clear and convincing performance for the entire course of the game.
192C1-NRB
      ID: 5932328
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 10:46
Did anybody hear Madden say last night when the Cowboys had two first-and-goals in a row (because of Eagle penalties) in the fourth quarter, "If this was the Patriots, people would accuse them of running up the score."

The Cowboys couldn't punch it in and settled for a field goal.
193Texas Flood
      ID: 353452713
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 10:55
OK, Colt fan boys quit pissing all over yourselves! I meant "Whipped" as metaphore. It was a tough game, but that comeback was somethin else eh!

Yeah and did you see McNabb and Westbrook late in the game doing nothing but padding stats. You would think with their injury history Reid would have enough sense to get them out of there.

That game had become quite chippy and some bad things could have happened.
194Frick
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 11:02
On the first kneel why was Brady barking at the refs and players? Most guys will give a token push, but nothing major, I didn't see anyone going all out, but Brady looked like he was pissed.
195Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 11:25
I wondered that too Frick. They didn't even talk about it at all.
196wiggs
      ID: 6825712
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 12:27
Texas Flood I am not a Colts fan. Just think they deserve credit for a great game.
197¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
      ID: 139153014
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 15:41
Re: #194

Tom Brady does a call-in segment on WEEI's Dennis and Callahan show; he mentioned this morning that Colts player(s) stimulated a snap count, which is a rules infraction, and the officials failed to call a penalty. The show is archived in the Patriots Monday Audio Vault.

Bill Belichick does a segment on The Big Show, which is also archived.
198Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 15:59
yea, the Ravens accused the Jets of that earlier this season.

i will say this - the Patriots may honestly be the sorest winners in the history of professional sports. never in my life have i seen a team win the big game, and then proceed to have one, big, gigantic bitchfest and complain about everything.

i'm guessing it might just be a case of all of their menstrual cycles synching up, or, they really could just be a bunch of babies.

199Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Mon, Nov 05, 2007, 17:32
At the end of the game when Brady was kneeling down killing the clock, I could'nt help but think how easy it would be to fake and throw a TD.

Should have thrown that TD for I would have won RSF's $50 challenge!
200Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:20
at the risk of topping this thread....

Did the Pats just go for it on 4th and 1 from the 5yd line up 35-7 early in the 3rd on a weak Bills team and pass for a TD?
201Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:24
I wouldn't get on the Pats for anything they do before the 4th quarter.
202Farn
      Leader
      ID: 451044109
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:26
going for it on 4th and 1 at the 5 up 28 points? I'd say that's a bit out of place.
203wiggs
      Sustainer
      ID: 04991311
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:28
i really cant wait for something big to happen, ie brady to get hit and get knocked out of the game for a while.

And I really cant wait til the patriots start to suck again. Maybe 5 years down the road these teams will be able to pile it on them
204Poker pro
      ID: 53938220
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:30
this ois total crap!Im going to lose a fantasy game that i shouldnt cause of these.,....Screw you new england
205Poker pro
      ID: 53938220
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:34
Is there a way to reach Bella dick?Hes a jerk
206wiggs
      ID: 51013815
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:42
went for it on 4th down again.
207Poker pro
      ID: 53938220
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:43
i WANT 5 MINUTES ALONE WITH THE PRICK bELLA BLOW
208Perm Dude
      ID: 251071711
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:43
It's all the Bills' fault, of course.
209Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 01629107
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:44
Wiggs is just mad because Donte' Stallworth sealed the deal for me in our H2H match this week.

:)
210Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 22:59
I need to do some research and you guys can help me.

How would one do a search and find the names and addresses of Bill Belichick's family members?

Toral
211Bond, James Bond
      Donor
      ID: 04352469
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 23:23
Try the Boston Zoo. Look for: Jackasses ;)
212Perm Dude
      ID: 251071711
      Sun, Nov 18, 2007, 23:42
He killed and ate them. They were sucking up all his football time.
213Tree
      ID: 3533298
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 07:28
there was that one moment where Brady scrambled, went into the slide, and got grazed on the helmet by one of the Bills - he came up screaming, and i thought he was going to burst into tears.

do a few more runs like that Brady, and you'll be able to experience how a 6th round pick hangs out on the sidelines on crutches.
214¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
      ID: 4510281820
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 08:03
Bills aren't in a whine mood
Team doesn't complain about lopsided score


... "Sure, it gets to you," Bills free safety George Wilson said. "There was a situation like this against the Redskins a few weeks ago and some spoke up. I'm not going to do that. This is a 60-minute game and if they want to go for it on fourth down you've got to strap it up and stop it. This ain't no pity party. In this league there is no remorse."

"I don't feel bad about it," echoed Buffalo strong safety Donte Whitner. "This is football. Our job is to stop it if they want to go for it. There's nothing against them. They play hard, they play the whole game. I don't begrudge them. You have to stop it."

... "I haven't seen a lot of people slow them down," Bills coach Dick Jauron said. "We knew that if we weren't on our game, it could get out of hand. It got out of hand pretty early. I have no problem with them. Our job is to stop them. Their job is to play. That's football."
215Slizz
      ID: 231041822
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 08:13
re: 213

"HE CANT DO THAT!!!!!" "DONT YOU KNOW!?!?! HE CANT DO THAT"
216Frick
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 08:49
I did notice that later in the game Brady slid much, much earlier. If he waits until the last second to slide, don't complain when the 300 lb lineman can't pull up at the last second. You're ahead by 40 points, do you really, really need that last yard?

People are claiming that this year's NE team is the best of all time. I don't see it. Sure they can run up the score and don't seem to care, but they don't have a decent running game.


I also loved Madden's argument that it was more humane to go for it on 4th down, and pass on 4th and short, and score a touchdown rather than kick the field goal. Although this only happened twice.
217Punk42AE
      Donor
      ID: 036635522
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 11:10
What's wrong with them playing "Madden Style"? I always know when i'm that close on 4th down i'll go for the TD than a short FG. :')
218Frick
      Donor
      ID: 3410101718
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 11:20
One of the things that I wonder is what is going to be the reaction in Patsland in the future when Buffalo, Miami or the Jets return the favor?

I saw an interesting stat from Peter King's MMQB. From MMBQ "I did some quick math on the Patriots' first-team offense over the past nine possessions, going back to the fourth quarter of the Colts' game, and not including their final possession in Indy, when they were trying to run out the clock and not trying to score. "

Possessions: 9
Touchdowns: 9
Quarters played: 4
Tom Brady touchdown passes: 7
Tom Brady passing yards: 504
Yards per drive: 65.9
Time per drive: 3:21


They are averaging 4.7 yards per drive rushing. Yes they have an ustoppable offense, but shouldn't they be a bit afraid of playing a game in NE in January? As last night showed, their running game is missing Corey Dillon's punashing rushing style where they can grind out the clock.
219barilko6
      ID: 219342212
      Mon, Nov 19, 2007, 11:53
One of the Bills' players was talking on the hometown station, WGR550, and he said that the fans are paying to watch players play 100%, not to let up, and that it was the Bill's defense's job to figure out how to stop the Pats.

220¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
      ID: 341093020
      Sat, Dec 01, 2007, 21:36
Cooking with Bill Belichick

221Seattle Zen
      ID: 49112418
      Tue, Dec 04, 2007, 12:09
I'm not a Ravens fan or a Patriots hater, but that was the most disappointing end of a game all year. The Pats are like vampires, you keep killing them and killing them, but they don't die until you drive a wooden stake through their heart. Just as the Ravens strike the hammer upon the stake, their STUPID F'ING COACH CALLS TIME OUT! Fire that clown!
222KrazyKoalaBears
      ID: 15023167
      Tue, Dec 04, 2007, 13:00
Maybe their next opponent should just wear garlic around their necks. ;) Hey, it might actually work better than anything another team has tried all year!
223Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Mon, Nov 10, 2008, 15:01
A quick note - compare the 4th quarter of last season's wk 8 Pats/Skins game (see post 94) to yesterday's Jets/Rams contest at the meadowlands.

Just like the Pats, The Jets got the ball with just over 2 minutes left in the 3rd quarter with a huge lead (40-3). They orchestrated an 8 play drive with 6 running plays that ended in a touchdown, eating up 5:30. The Rams then went 3 and out and the Jets got the ball back on their own 22 with 11:09 left in the game. The Jets brought in backup QB Kellen Clemens and ran 12 straight running plays, getting them 4 first downs and 70 yards and eating 9 minutes off the clock. So they came out of the 2 minute warning with first and goal on the Rams 8 yard line. With a cinch field goal and the opportunity for their second 50 point game of the season (not to mention Clemens' first touchdown opportunity of the season) staring them in the face, he took a knee on three straight plays and let the clock run out.

With a division showdown looming this Thursday against the hated Patriots, Coach Mangini made exactly the opposite statement that Belichick chose to go with 54 weeks earlier in almost exactly the same situation: a display of sportsmanship.
224Slizz
      ID: 33951713
      Tue, Nov 11, 2008, 09:21
building on that..wtf was Mangini thinking running Thomas Jones late into the 4th quarter?!?!

I can see why you'd want to keep Favre in to get him additional game reps with the offense, but to have your starting backfield in at that point in the game is head-scratching.

225Jaydog
      ID: 516212910
      Tue, Nov 11, 2008, 09:28
Might show that he values Leon Washington more than Thomas Jones. Would rather risk an injury to Jones than Washington.
226Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Tue, Nov 11, 2008, 10:08
My friends and I were asking each other the same thing. Washington probably is as important to the team as Jones. And Marcus Jones, the 3rd string runner, was just signed to the Jets active roster on 10/29 following Jesse Chatman being placed on the IR list.
227Mith
      ID: 2894309
      Tue, Nov 11, 2008, 10:08
Er... Marcus Mason.
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