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Subject: Best KR/PR of All Time
Posted by: Great One
- Sustainer [053272014] Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:31
This poll is on SI. I'd love to have an informal vote here. Feel free to add any write-ins.
So I guess the way to pose the question is... you are starting a franchise and can pick any kickoff/punt returner you want from any time. Who would it be?
Devin Hester
Deion Sanders
Dave Meggett
Brian Mitchell
Gale Sayers
Desmond Howard
Dante Hall
Rick Upchurch
Billy "White Shoes" Johnson
Eric Metcalf
Ollie Matson
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| 1 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:34
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Gale Sayers
The choice is easy. Not only would he be a great returner, you can hand the ball off to him all day long.
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| 2 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:39
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He and some of the other older options will suffer from a lack of viewable highlights... thats for sure.
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| 3 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:49
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I used to love the TD dance of Billy "White Shoes" Johnson.
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| 4 | Texas Flood
ID: 351131916
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:51
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Agree with Zen, Sayers hands down.
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| 5 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:52
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Primetime...Primetime...Primetime....
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| 6 | JTSERB
ID: 481020120
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:54
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How can it not be hester? He is like 3rd all time on return for tds and what has he played like 30 games?
He has changed the way teams play the bears. The Bears start on the 30 or 40 almost every time that it is kicked to hester. Could you imagine if you put hester on a team that had an offense? they might rival the pats in points
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| 7 | Perm Dude
ID: 101150208
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 14:57
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If we talk about all-around players I'd say Sayers. By far he was the best at his "regular" position. But Hester and Dante Hall were both players that the opponents would make plans around.
I grew up in the White Shoes era and he was amazing (even when he would beat my beloved Brownies). But teams would continue to kick to him, hoping he'd get tackled. Nowadays with better kickers (and better strategies) teams are a lot smarter, which makes returners like Hester, Hall (and this season, Cribbs) all that more impressive.
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| 8 | blue hen
ID: 16322314
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 15:01
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Brian Westbrook
Seriously, he was a huge part of the return team during the Duce Staley at RB years. I'm happy to have him playing where he is, but our return squad hasn't been the same since.
I also grew up a big Brian Mitchell fan, but he's got no place on this list except for longevity.
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| 9 | sarge33rd
ID: 99331714
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 15:03
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As a "pure" return man? No question but that its Hester. Looking at overall ability to ocntribute in other areas as well? W/O hesitation, Sayers.
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| 10 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 15023167
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 15:05
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I'm thinking along the lines of PD.
If I'm picking a guy who CAN handle PR/KR, I'm taking Sayers. If I'm taking a guy who can ONLY handle PR/KR, I'm taking Hester.
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| 11 | Perm Dude
ID: 101150208
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 15:08
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Some gist for the argument:
NFL record board, kick returns
NFL record book, punt returns
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| 12 | chode
ID: 293141514
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 16:04
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Gale Sayers was better as a RB than Deion Sanders was as a CB? I think that's highly debatable.
If the statement is "Gale Sayers was better as a RB/KR than Deion Sanders was as a CB/KR," then I'm more inclined to agree. But "best at his 'regular' position" ...
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| 13 | Perm Dude
ID: 101150208
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 17:06
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If Sanders could tackle he might have been very good. But he was one dimensional. Mind you, he was very good at it (as I recall, he retired as the top non-offensive TD leader). But it isn't a coincidence that his best year as a DB (1994) when he returned 3 INTs for TDs was the same year he returned no kickoffs or punts at all.
It also isn't a coincidence that his best KR year (1992) was a very so-so DB year.
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| 14 | Frick
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 17:27
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How much of being a great return man is a function of the team that you play on. And a function of who they put on the field for special teams. Currently some teams use front line starters on special teams, I know the Bears do, other teams don't use any, the Colts. Doesn't this have a pretty significant impact?
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| 15 | Razor
ID: 3311172018
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 19:23
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PD, you are way off on this one. Deion is undisputably one of the greatest cornerbacks to ever play, poor tackling and all.
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| 16 | Great One
ID: 201155199
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 19:29
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Considering that QB's wouldn't even throw to his side of the field, I'd say he was feared. I would imagine that a defensive coordinator must have loved not having to worry about the other teams top WR. Plus he could blitz all he wanted (including run blitzes) knowing that Deion's side of the field was taken care of. So maybe he wasn't making the tackles, but he was still impacting all phases on that side of the ball.
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| 17 | barilko6
ID: 2511532019
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 20:53
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I agree with the thoughts mentioned by many above. If we are looking at this from a pure returning standpoint, I would go with Devin Hester. His return numbers are off the charts.
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| 18 | Perm Dude
ID: 101150208
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 22:31
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Sanders was an excellent long cover guy, but don't kid yourself: Teams didn't compensate by not throwing the ball his side or losing their top WR (since their WR could simply line up on the other side). Teams compensated by running sweeps and dumpoffs to his side, knowing that Sanders needed help bringing down anyone and everyone.
And I do recall his blitzes--he was fast enough to get past linemen very quickly. But for all that, he had one (!) sack his entire career.
Sanders was a very smart player, and awfully quick. This made him a great cover man and a very good return man. But don't kid yourself that he was one of the best corners ever. He was one dimensional, even if that one dimension was quite spectacular.
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| 19 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 23:08
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I remember this guy being awfully good when I was a kid.
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| 20 | Great One
ID: 201155199
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 23:15
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For only being able to do one thing, I am amazed Deion was named Defensive Player of the Year in 1994.
and this...
During his 14-year NFL career, Sanders was a perennial All-Pro and one of the most feared pass defenders to ever play the game. At the height of his career, his reputation was so great that opposing offensive coordinators almost always specifically accounted for him in their game-plan. He was widely known to shut down "his" half of the field, causing most quarterbacks to essentially ignore the receiver he was covering.
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| 21 | Great One
ID: 201155199
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 23:19
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And yes PD - when they broke the huddle, Deion would find the #1 guy and go to his side of the field and the other CB would go to the opposite. So simply going to the other side of the field isn't really an option for the offense to avoid him.
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| 22 | Perm Dude
ID: 101150208
Thu, Dec 20, 2007, 23:42
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I watched Sanders play many games as well, GO. And I've already said he was a spectacular cover guy (and I believe something not often mentioned: I think he was one of the smartest guys to play db ever--his football IQ was amazing, IMO).
I also saw him gamble on many plays and get burned, or bet knocked on his can trying to make a tackle. This doesn't take away from his excellent long coverage, which I've noted all alomg. But a corner who can't tackle isn't the best ever, IMO.
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| 23 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 10:05
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Peter King's All-Time team
CB | Deion Sanders | Atlanta Falcons (1989-93), San Francisco 49ers (1994), Dallas Cowboys (1995-99), Washington Redskins (2000), Baltimore Ravens (2004-05)
I feel bad putting a non-tackler on this defense. Butkus would have hated him. But the fact is, Sanders is the best cover corner in NFL history, and there's no room for arguments.
Returner | Gale Sayers | Chicago Bears (1965-71)
The best open-field runner in history, he scored 22 touchdowns as a rookie. His career kick-return average of 30.6 yards is still the best in NFL history.
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| 24 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 10:41
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I'd like to add to Deion's stats:
One dousing of Tim McCarver. That alone makes him vote worthy.
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| 25 | Nerfherders
ID: 501035289
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 13:15
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I would take Sayers because I could also hand him the ball 20 times on offense. But I dont know that he would be any better than guys like Westbrook, Faulk, or Tomlinson. It's just in this day and age when there is so much money invested in your players you cant afford them to be hurt returning the football.
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| 26 | Gman15
ID: 521081511
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 13:47
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I remember watching the game where Sayers scored 6 TDs in the mud (I think against SF?). He was the best I ever saw and I'm very impressed with Hester right now.
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| 27 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 14:35
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One dousing of Tim McCarver.
No doubt the greatest thing Deion ever did.
Let's not forget that for most of his playing career, Deion was a chump, a self absorbed clown, the very antonym of team player. Having a great cornerback is wonderful, having a great running back leads to championships.
Gale Sayers was a more valuable and better football player than Deion.
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| 28 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 15:19
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I actually agree with ZEN except for the dousing. While I am not a nec. a fan of McCarver, that was uncalled for. I bet he'd be fighting if someone did that to him now that the shoe is on the other foot.
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| 29 | Great One
Sustainer
ID: 053272014
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 15:35
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Are you saying Deion wouldn't pull a Westbrook?! lol... that means Westbrook might be the perfect candidate afterall as Blue Hen said. We know what he would do in that situation... we know he's a great player... we know he can have a big return in the clutch too (remember that one vs. the Giants?!)
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| 30 | Electroman
ID: 73332719
Fri, Dec 21, 2007, 18:19
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There was the one a few weeks ago against the Seahawks, it ut them in a great position to win. But Feely still wanted to play catch with Lofa Tatupu.
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| 31 | donk44
ID: 42611019
Tue, Dec 25, 2007, 18:33
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I know it's a little off the original question, but since there is so much talk about Deion...how about Lester Hayes of the 70's & 80's Oakland Raiders teams as one of the best corner cover guys
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