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Subject: Superbowl - "Fumble"
Posted by: youngroman
- Donor [02934823] Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 22:16
what do you think of the "Fumble" with 5 seconds left. for me it was an incompletion like the one before and I don't get it why there was no Booth Review. with the 15yd penalty for PIT it would have been a 1st down around the 29. for me the Refs blew another game, this time the most important game of the year. what a bad end to an incredible 4th quarter. |
| 1 | money4later
ID: 2111213116
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 22:18
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I'm not 100% convinced that Holmes had his right foot down. Looked that it may have been resting on his left foot on the way down. Not a fan of either team, but what an awesome game. The Doritos commercials weren't bad either.
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| 2 | Tree
ID: 1311551521
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 22:22
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there was a booth review of the final play from the Cardinals.
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| 3 | Pancho Villa
ID: 51546319
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 22:23
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Steelers didn't cover. Cardinals win!
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| 4 | bibA
ID: 22042621
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 22:24
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Warner's arm was still moving back when he and the ball were hit. The ball began to become loose. His arm then moved forward, pushing the ball forward after Warner had lost his grasp.
Re Holmes foot being down, I saw absolutely no incontrovutable evidence that one of his feet was not down in the end zone.
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| 5 | Seattle Zen
ID: 34134116
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 22:35
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I'm convinced that the football gods are an impish lot, a dastardly bunch, without much a care for justice.
The evidence is everywhere.
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| 6 | G
ID: 20291015
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 23:03
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Steelers with a record 6 Super Bowl titles. That is awesome.
Every game has close calls that could go either way. Why is there no post about Pittsburghs first touchdown that was ruled a touchdown on the field and then wrongly called down and no touchdown? That play cost Pittsburgh 4 pts. There was no clear evidence to overrule that play. NBC showed that.
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| 7 | DMAN
ID: 540532919
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 23:05
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They got that called right. His knee was clearly down before he got in the end zone.
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| 8 | G
ID: 20291015
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 23:13
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u must have missed the replay after the break that showed an angle that his knee was not down. Shadows can play 4 pt tricks
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| 9 | Perm Dude
ID: 7115122
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 23:15
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Amazing fourth quarter. And each call was the correct one. Great game by the refs.
The difference in the Warner calls was that the first one Warner was clearly in control of the ball, but the second he did not have control of the ball when the ball was moving forward.
For Holmes, the shot above wasn't clear, but the shot from the side clearly show a toe bounce off the turf.
I was rooting for Arizona, but an amazing fourth quarter by both teams.
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| 10 | G
ID: 20291015
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 23:23
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I would agree with Perm. The amazing thing about Refs is they are making live action calls. We have the benefit of super slow motion and still can't agree regardless of our bias. I sat with my dad and we disagreed a couple times yet shared the same position. In the end they are all humans doing the best they can. I found this to be a very decent game. My biggest complaint was how much Harrison being held on several plays. He seemed to be beat is guy often but as they say holding happens a lot and isn't called.
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| 11 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 570422522
Sun, Feb 01, 2009, 23:26
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I think the final fumble play should have went to a full review...probably was a fumble but they should have replayed it...
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| 12 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 00:27
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Congrats to PITT from an eastern Pennsylvania fan - they pass SFO and DAL.
FWIW - Pittsburgh has won more Super Bowls in the last 4 years [2] than Dallas has won playoff games in the last 13 years [1]. Dallas who? Although DAL still leads PITT in Super Bowl appearances with 8; PITT 'only' has 7 [2nd]. Tied for 3rd is SFO and NWE with 5.
And since the Super Bowl started, Dallas has made it into the 'Super Bowl playoff' system 29 times [more than anyone else], followed by MINN [25], PIT [24], MIA [22], and SFO [21]. Raiders and Rams also have 21 appearances [14 OAK, 7 LA] & [5 STL, 16 LA]
Also FWIW - SFO is the only team with more than one Super Bowl appearance that has never lost a Super Bowl [5-0].
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| 13 | blue hen
ID: 8115717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 00:35
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Great game! I actually agreed with every call the refs made in this one, including the Warner fumble. It's a shame, because I think it would have meant more to both the NFL and Cardinal fans, but clearly this was a banner year for the Buzzsaw.
The commercials were also better this year. Cash4gold and careerbuilder were my two favorites.
Oh, and this is going to be an absolutely loaded movie summer, with Transformers 2 and Angels and Demons joining the fray (along with Harry Potter).
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| 14 | TB
ID: 9116716
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 02:11
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Very good game. I was hoping to see the Warner led Cardinals win the game, especially after watching Harrison punch the guy in the back and then shoving him on the ground. What a complete douche.
It is certainly a game of inches; from the early TD that was called down at the one to the final TD. I know I wonder how different the second half would have been had Warner not thrown that interception that ended the half with the Steelers getting 7. You figure even had the Cards not gotten into the endzone they should have at least gotten a FG, but instead it's a 10 point swing.
Dorritos and the Pepsi commercial where all the dudes were getting messed up were the only commercials I laughed while watching. Go Daddy has the dumbest commercials and I am so lost on where they are making money to advertise during the superbowl.
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| 15 | Electroman
ID: 47928246
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 07:27
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I was surprised that it wasn't reviewed either, but before they call for a review, they look it over. It was clearly a fumble, so the call on the field was good. It was incredible that 2 WR's took over the game, Holmes and Fitz.
RE:12 On your stats for SB appearances, Denver has 6 and so does NE.
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| 16 | C1-NRB
ID: 31050820
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 08:40
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Warner's arm was still moving back when he and the ball were hit. The ball began to become loose. His arm then moved forward, pushing the ball forward after Warner had lost his grasp.
Re Holmes foot being down, I saw absolutely no incontrovutable evidence that one of his feet was not down in the end zone.
If either of those plays were called the other way there was not conclusive evidence to overturn them.
The non-call the kills me was the obvious (on replay) block in the back during Harrison's interception return. That being said, it happened somewhere around the Cardinal 30 yard line and no official was within probably 35-40 yards of the play at that point. The officials can only call what they see, and none of them were going to see that contact from the angle they had.
Overall it was one of the best Super Bowls I can recall. Before the final fumble I thought Warner was going to be on the other end of the Tennessee/St. Louis ending coming up just a few yards short as time expired.
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| 17 | Slizz
ID: 4710371415
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 09:49
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Great game. Seriously one of the more enjoyable Super Bowls I've seen... RE: Holmes' catch. It could have gone either way. I think they got it right and even with all the angles, I still couldn't tell if both feet tapped or didn't tap. Everyone knows I'm on the Kurt Warner HOF bandwagon...but do you think that pick 6 by Harrison will work against him come voting time?
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| 18 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 10:09
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I thought the refs, combined with replay, got the game right.
I thought the game was boring until the 4th--save for that 14 point swing at the end of the half. Pitt football I suppose.
Too bad AZ couldn't get the job done, but Pitt deserved it.
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| 19 | Nerfherders
ID: 347242717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 11:18
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The game ended up coming down to that one play to end the first half. Since that play could not directly affect any of the further game because of the end of the half, any other outcome from that particular play would have resulted in a Cardinals win. I felt the Cardinals outplayed the Steelers from the mid 2nd quarter on.
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| 20 | weykool
ID: 2842717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 11:43
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I think for the most part the Refs/replays got most of the plays right.
The only play I had a problem with was the late hit on BEN that resulted in a FG.
That was a horrible call.
If you take away those 3 points then I am sure Arizona goes for two when they sccore their last TD.
The punch in the back by Harrision leaves a very black mark for the Steeler victory.
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| 21 | wiggs
Sustainer
ID: 04991311
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 11:47
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My biggest complaint with the refs was on the Harrison TD return there was clearly a block in the back on hightower that wasnt called, along with the fact that even though it was reviewed I believe he was down before the ball crossed the line.
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| 22 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 12:06
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They did call a penalty on Arizona on the Harrison return (not sure if it was pre/post INT). If Arizona tackled him before the goal line, would Pitt have had the chance to kick a FG? (Half cannot end on a "defensive" penalty)
Then, if they did call the block in the back...would the fouls have offset and Arizona kept the ball at the 1????
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| 23 | G
ID: 20291015
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 12:29
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I have seen the Harrison return on ESPN numerous times this morning. As the post above points out, the play happens around the Steelers 30 yard line. On that play Woodley has blocked Hightower to the middle of the field around the Ariz 40, Hightower keeps his feet and tries to angle back toward the sideline. From the block at the 40, Hightower is ahead of Woodley and Harrison and makes his bid for a tackle at an angle. Woodley sees him coming back into the play and gives him a two handed shove in his right sholder area. At that time, Hightower is in front of Woodley and has turned his body so that it is sideways to Woodley. I haven't looked up the rule but I believe you can block a player who is sideways to you. I guess I am having trouble seeing a "clear" block in the back on that play.
As for him not crossing line, I have yet to see any angle show anything other than Harrisons head being the first thing to hit the ground and when that happened, the ball was easily across the plane.
I did find the penalty for the shot in the back of Ben to be very boarderline. My first thought was a flashback to the late hit Ben took against the Ravens when his rib was injured and no flag was thrown in the AFC Champ game. That hit was a little later than this one. Given the report on Ben and his ribs and how it happened, I wonder if they were watching a little closer for any late shots to his back.
In the end, Big Ben was the MVP of the Super Bowl. The Steelers running game and offensive line were sub par at best this year (by their standards) and the team road defense and Big Ben to a 12-4 record against the toughest schedule ever assigned to a team in the NFL (based on previous years win percentage). This game was a carbon copy of many of their wins. The defense keeps the other team in check, scores, and Ben scrambles around like mad making plays to do enough to win in the end. Another reason Holmes shouldn't get the MVP is he makes a bonehead celebrationafter the touchdown which could have/should have cost them 15 on the kickoff. An MVP award shouldn't go to a person who puts himself ahead of the team. He also completely missed a potential game winning touchdown the play before when the ball went right through his hands.
I do wonder what this decade would have looked like if the Patriots and Bellicheat hadn't emerged. The Pats beat them twice in the AFC Champ game in 01-02 and 04-05 and went on to win the Super Bowl in those years.
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| 24 | G
ID: 20291015
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 12:37
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J,
Yes the half can't end on an accepted penalty so had Harrison been ruled down, Pittsburgh would have had one more play with not ime on the clock.
As for your second question, it is a very good one. I think the fact that one happened while Ariz had the ball and the other theoretically would have happened after Pittsburgh the ball that Pittsburgh would have reatined the ball but I don't know that for sure.
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| 25 | weykool
ID: 2842717
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 12:39
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The one question that keeps coming to my mind is what would have happened if The Steelers had scored a FG instead of the last TD and then Harrison makes another pick 6 to win the game?
Would they have given him the MVP considering the cheap shot?
Can you give it to Ben with just one TD?
I think you have to consider the play that Holmes makes that put the ball on the 5 yard line to begin with.
That play was 90% Holmes, 10% Ben.
Both passes to Holmes in the endzone were borderline uncatchable.
I'm sure Fittgerald would have caught both of them but most receivers would have caught neither one.
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| 26 | Slizz
ID: 4710371415
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 12:49
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G - great point about the Santonio Holmes / LeBron James celebration...I thought it was awesome, but it went totally over my head that it should've been a 15 yard penalty. I agree with you on the block in the back...but it NEVER EVER gets called. It has to be an unwritten rule to pick the flag up or ignore it b/c i've seen the blocks to the back happen with DeSean Jackson (vs Redskins), Ed Reed (Pick 6 vs Philly), Nathan Vasher's 108 yard TD vs the 49ers on that windy day a couple years back, etc. O well...its water under the bridge and the Steelers won, and it was highly entertaining.
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| 27 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 13:27
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I still can't figure out why on an INT running up the sideline, you can't get the guy to step out of
bounds! Ed Reed did it to the Eagles and 4 guys -- all they had to do was push him -- not tackle
him, just push.
Also, ESPN showed the goofball move of Samari Rolle standing in the white zone and Fitz had to
bowl him over to keep going -- otherwise Fitz runs him down at the 5... Harrison did score, his
knee/elbow never hit the ground -- they landed on Fitz's body.
Agree that the 40 yarder was 90% Holmes -- Ben just threw it. Also, wasn't it Holmes who scored
the crazy weave TD 2 weeks ago after a short slant pass?
Great game, but I wanted Warner to win it. I hope he doesn't retire just yet. Leinhart isn't ready.
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| 28 | G
ID: 20291015
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 16:13
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I will give Ben a little more credit on the Holmes catch/run to the 5.
On that play Ben gives a hard pump fake to Moore in the flats. I am not talking about a little head or shoulder pump like you so often see from QB's but a full ball in one hand arm motion throw where instead of a release he holds on to the ball, reloads and then hits a wide open Holmes with a bullet allowing him to turn and do what he did.
I have seen QB's have the ball comeout and fall to the greound on pump fakes like this including Ben this year. What I cant tell from the camera angle is why is Holmes so open? Was it the fake by Ben or did Holmes shake his guy.
One other thing that hasn't been mentioned is on the game winning score, Ben saves disaster with a one handed stab of a bad snap. The ball is snapped off to Ben's left, he catches it with his left hand, checks off two recievers and threads the game winner over 3 Cardinals. I cant deny the beauty of the job Holmes did to catch the ball with both feet in but the ball was perfect too.
One thing for Holmes is this post season was very big for him. Ben has done this stuff before but Holmes has struggled in his first two seasons so I was as surprised as anyone to see him step it up in the post season.
Holmes has been a mini version of Plex. A talent but a black eye to the team. Pittsburgh had no problem letting Burress go to free agencv and I saw Holmes heading the same way. I hope this experience makes him a better person/player but I could sure see it going to his head too. Time will tell.
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| 29 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 16:19
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It was the fake by Ben. Rodgers-Cromartie was on Holmes and bit for the fake big time.
Rodgers-Cromartie seems to have had a really bad game. He has the speed to make up for some lapses such as a few deep balls in the first half but he played like a rookie and noone seems to be talking about it. I guess if a wide received is going to win MVP some cornerback has to be partly to blame right?
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| 30 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 16:22
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I don't think it was really a "fake"(at least not a designed fake). I think Ben was all set to throw it underneath and then at the last second pulled it back. Good play...
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| 31 | G
ID: 20291015
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 17:27
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RE 30
Yeah, you may very well be right. When I watched the play live I really thought the ball was going to Moore in the flat. The more I think about Ben's style, I am starting to think he made a split second decision to hold on to the ball and look up field to option #2 -Holmes. If it wasn't a designed pump, hats off to Ben for making a huge play again.
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| 32 | Ref
Donor
ID: 539581218
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 18:33
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The half can't end on an accepted DEFENSIVE penalty.
If Harrison hadn't made that pick 6, the rest of the game may have been played differenty. Different play calls and different situations.
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| 33 | G
ID: 20291015
Mon, Feb 02, 2009, 19:10
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Re 32 - yes good amendment.
As for the Cardinals penalty which was an offensive penalty, this particular one was a personal foul which would have allowed Pittsburgh to run one more play if they needed too.
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