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Subject: Tebow Time
Posted by: weykool
- [71141119] Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 20:04
Is this story for real?
If this was a movie script it would have been turned down for lack of believability.
New England is up next to end the madness......OR? |
| 1 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 20:16
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It's a great story. The guy looks horrible until the 4th quarter, but the heart gets pumping at crunch time.
It's especially satisfying after hearing so many "experts" prognosticate that failure was to be his NFL legacy.
Beyond that, he's an exemplary role model as a person, and I'm not religious, so it's not based on that. Anyone bothered by his outward displays of faith need to check themself. If more people emulated the traits that Tebow displays, regardless of religious or non-religious persuasion, the world would be a better place.
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| 2 | sarge33rd
ID: 331156119
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 20:41
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Agreed on all counts. What amazes me, is that Elway and co, arent "sold" on him yet. WTF does this kid have to do, to prove his case?
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| 3 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 20:46
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Not a believer.
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| 4 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 21:14
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it's exciting to watch Tebow play, no doubt. time will tell, but he certainly wouldn't be the first NFL player who had one helluva half-season, and that was that.
heck, remember when Steve Slaton rushed for 1,300 yards? yea, that was the season before last, and he's now a healthy scratch every week, and he's only 25 years old.
again, time will tell, but i'm not super excited yet.
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| 5 | weykool
ID: 71141119
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 21:28
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To be fair to Elway the teams that the Broncos/Tebow have beaten have not been all that good.
A combined record of 39-52 (.428)
They have outscored their opponents by a total of 35 points in 7 games and lost to Detroit by a total of 35 points.
In addition Tebow has stunk for 3 quarters or more in most of the games and has pulled it out in the 4th quarter or overtime.
In the game today (Chi) he was 2 of 18 with 1 int going into the 4th/OT.
He was 19 of 22 with a TD in the 4th.
You cant give credit to Tebow for Barber running out of bounds or fumbling on the way to a sure 1st down or possibly a score.
Much of the credit needs to go to the defense and everyone playing as a team.
The power of the team can be a powerful force and I believe Tebow deserves a lot of credit for somehow galvanizing the other 52 player into a team.
You have veteran players admittedly buying into whatever Tebow is selling, and THAT is the amazing story to me.
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| 6 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 21:28
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What's compelling about the story is that Tebow looks horrible for 3 quarters, giving the haters plenty of ammo, then suddenly in crunch time he makes it happen.
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| 7 | Electroman
Donor
ID: 010833614
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 22:15
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If his name was Manning, he would be the best thing since...well Manning. He has his team believing. He is a leader. The defense plays well because they have his back, they want to see him make the plays to win the game. I bet they beat the Pats next weekend.
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| 8 | Razor
ID: 1111191120
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 22:37
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The Broncos have come back for narrow victories against a bunch of bad teams, Jets excepted. That is not going to happen against Tom Brady and New England.
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| 9 | Kyle
Sustainer
ID: 052753312
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 22:45
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"You cant give credit to Tebow for Barber running out of bounds or fumbling on the way to a sure 1st down or possibly a score."
Or can you?
I think it's an interesting story, but I'm not sold that he's a QB still. When he can show it for a full season and look good for an entire game, then I'll start believing.
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| 10 | Donkey Hunter
ID: 71111122
Sun, Dec 11, 2011, 23:01
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Hate seeing that combined record stat.
Packers last seven opponents combined record is 35-55, but no one brings up their schedule. All you can do is beat the teams in front of you.
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| 11 | Seattle Zen
Leader
ID: 055343019
Mon, Dec 12, 2011, 10:17
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Much of the credit needs to go to the defense and everyone playing as a team.
Whoa, we agree. Yeah, the Tebow story is compelling, but I think it really should be labeled a Denver Broncos' story. The NFL press loves to create stories and build hype and they really need it this year to offer an alternative to just repeating "Green Bay Packers" week after week.
The Broncos are riding a tsunami of momentum right now, I, for one, don't see similar results next season.
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| 12 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Sun, Dec 18, 2011, 12:47
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My predictions for Broncos vs Pats.
Pats win. 38-21
There will not be another Tebow time, but he does play better in the 1st 3 quarters.
If The Broncos/Tebow pull of the major upset the mania will go crazy (If possible)
ESPN will change its name to TSPN
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| 13 | Judy
ID: 54203110
Sun, Dec 18, 2011, 13:36
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Closer score, different winner. Broncos D stops Brady. Tebow does his thing.
Broncos 27, NEP 24
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| 14 | holt
ID: 108501712
Sun, Dec 18, 2011, 15:18
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The whole thing is just hilarious. How bad Tebow is in some ways, and how good he is in others, and the ridiculous endings to games that make the experts look like morons, in spite of the fact that they're prob correct on most counts. It's just hysterical.
Can't wait for this game. It should be noted that the Patriots usually stink it up at Denver. Dumervil and Von Miller have the potential to make this a very long afternoon for Brady. The Patriots have a lot more to think about than just Tebow.
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| 15 | mjd
Leader
ID: 501381415
Sun, Dec 18, 2011, 15:57
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Anyone see this last night?
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| 16 | holt
ID: 108501712
Mon, Dec 19, 2011, 01:08
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haha - that's great
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| 17 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Sun, Jan 08, 2012, 20:53
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OK, Tebow just engineered an OT win in the playoffs vs Pitts. Come one now, when is Elway and company gonna give this kid the credit he has CLEARLY earned?
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| 18 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Sun, Jan 08, 2012, 20:56
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The legend grows.
I was waiting all game for the Broncos to throw on 1st down.
After starting the season 1-4 just making the playoffs is huge.
Winning a game is just a bonus.
He seems to defy the experts.
They say he cant play....he proves them wrong.
They start saying he can play after 6 straight wins.....he proves them wrong.
They say he cant win a Super Bowl.......
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| 19 | bibA
ID: 48627713
Sun, Jan 08, 2012, 21:26
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Never mind "they", what do YOU say?
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| 20 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Sun, Jan 08, 2012, 22:00
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I think he can....eventually.
As others have pointed out he can be really bad at times and very good at others.
I Dont think he is there just yet but he works very hard and I firmly believe he will improve and become a very good NFL quarterback.
Probably not elite (Rogers, Manning, Brady, Brees) but very good.
I dont buy the "He's a winner argument" because almost every starting quarterback was a winner in HS and college.
However, I do believe he has other intangibles that will help him achieve his goals.
Confidence, Leadership, Hardworking, Calm under pressure amoung other desired qualities.
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| 21 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Sun, Jan 08, 2012, 22:09
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OK, Tebow just engineered an OT win in the playoffs vs Pitts.
you have got to give a LOT of credit to Demaryius Thomas and the Denver defense in this one. Tebow may be winning, but he's not doing it alone.
Thomas' stiff arm is why they scored on that winning play. i haven't seen a stiff arm that vicious in quite some time.
and Denver's defense came up big, making huge stops when they needed to. they had 5 sacks, 1 interception, a bunch of pass deflections, and generally caused havoc all day.
Tebow did a decent enough job. but he didn't do it alone. and if he wins a Super Bowl, good for him. plenty of below average QBs have won Super Bowls.
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| 22 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 24650229
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 09:22
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Let's look at some interesting numbers...
QB1 9-6 W/L, 47.3%, 2383 PaYds, 17 PaTD, 9 INT, 39 Sk, 887 RuYds, 12 RuTD
QB2 3-13 W/L, 56.7%, 3739 PaYds, 26 PaTD, 28 INT, 22 Sk, 62 RuYds, 0 RuTD
QB3 0-11 W/L, 52.9%, 1749 PaYds, 9 PaTD, 18 INT, 19 Sk, 302 RuYds, 0 RuTd
QB4 7-9 W/L, 60.0%, 3512 PaYds, 18 PaTD, 15 INT, 34 Sk, 63 RuYds, 1 RuTD
QB5 6-10 W/L, 60.0%, 4051 PaYds, 21 PaTd, 17 INT, 35 Sk, 706 RuYds, 14 RuTD
Who are those guys?
QB1 T.Tebow (career, 14 starts)
QB2 P.Manning (rookie season)
QB3 T.Aikman (rookie season)
QB4 S.Bradford (rookie season)
QB5 C.Newton (rookie season)
Tebow is essentially rounding out the end of his rookie season, in terms of playing experience. The stats above compare him to other QBs (off the top of my head) that were "thrown into the fire" their rookie season.
Is it an imperfect comparison? Of course. Do I think T.Tebow is the next Manning or Aikman? Definitely not yet.
But the point is that all the "experts" are grading him on a scale of 5+ years of experience when the kid has nothing even remotely close to that. He's still learning the NFL game on a game-by-game basis.
Personally, I could care less about his mechanics and all the other flaws he has. He's overcome them in the past and I think he can overcome them in the future. This isn't a "winners know how to win" argument as much as it is recognizing that elite athletes know what their flaws are and how to work around them.
I think Tebow, at a minimum, will be a high mid-range QB in 5 years, as long as DEN or some other team is willing to stick with and develop him. Somewhere around the #10 QB in the league. But, that takes into account rushing ability, like Newton. It used to be that QBs couldn't out-run the defense. That's not true as much anymore and I think it will be even less true as teams build their defenses to stop the evolution of the extreme passing attacks like GNB, NWE, NOR, and others. And I think Tebow will be able to take advantage of that.
And this is taking NOTHING away from the Denver Broncos team. Tebow didn't do it alone, but no QB wins many (any?) games by themselves. They just end up getting all the glory.
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| 23 | Electroman
Donor
ID: 010833614
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 09:44
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It's funny how people want to dump on Tebow when things go wrong, but when they win it is the defense. What about Eli Manning? He won a SB MVP because he threw up a prayer and a guy made a circus catch, and the defense shut down a high power offense. People are willing to give a lot of underseved praise to Eli, so give Tebow some. I would take him over a lot of QB's namely Romo...
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| 24 | Frick
ID: 387512315
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 10:20
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I can't remember the twitter source, but Tebow makes the Dillon Panther games look realistic.
KKB, I think Tebow is limited as a passing QB and might not be as explosive as a runner as Vick, he might be even more effective. Vick doesn't have the ability to run inside, Tebows TD run was impressive when he lowered his shouldered and got into the endzone over the Steeler's LBs.
Comparing Tebows numbers against rookie QBs is a bit off. Compare this year's numbers to Aikman's or Manning's 2nd years and the numbers (except rushing) don't look quite as good.
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| 25 | Pancho Villa
ID: 597172916
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 10:28
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Tebow has been the most compelling story of this NFL season.
Mark Fidrych was the most compelling sports story of 1976.
I don't know if Tebow will develop into a long term quality NFL QB, or a flash-in-the-pan flameout like "The Bird."
I just know I'm enjoying the ride for however long it lasts.
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| 26 | Seattle Zen
Leader
ID: 055343019
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 10:46
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Congratulations, Tebow and the Broncos, that was a mighty upset. 31 yards per completion! That has to be a post season record. They game planned away from his weakness, making progression through his receivers for short passes, and went for broke with a sandlot "go deep" game. I don't know if the reason he had time to get these passes off is because the Steelers were using a containment pass rush - not too much push on the outside to prevent him from breaking off runs, or if their pass rush was just anemic. Regardless, I don't see yesterday's performance as an indicator of long term success for the quarterback.
I found it hilarious that the first time the NFL got to use its new overtime rules, nothing changed. Win the coin toss and score a touchdown, win the game. Win the coin toss, score a field goal... the game continues. Sounds like a committee came up with that gem.
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| 27 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 12:59
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re 21: Tebow did a decent enough job. but he didn't do it alone. and if he wins a Super Bowl, good for him. plenty of below average QBs have won Super Bowls.
Didnt say he did it alone. Of ocurse, thats the same D that started out 1-4 right? Same O-line? Same HBs and Rcvrs? Same coaches?
He didnt "do it" by himself, but he CLEARLY put this team on his own back and carried them through it all. Elevating the level of play of everyone around him. THAT, is what he did by himself and THAT is why Den has been winning.
Which teams need to look long and hard at Tebw?
Denver, KC, Miami, Jacksonville, Arizona, Indy, just off the top of my head and in 7 seconds or so. He may or may not ever be an elite QB. Way too early to pin that on him, but that he will be a damn solid QB, I have little doubt.
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| 28 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Mon, Jan 09, 2012, 18:43
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I would take him over a lot of QB's namely Romo...
i've heard other people say something similar, and there's no way in a million year's i'd take Tebow over Romo. The Cowboys has a subpar this season because of their defensive secondary. Romo's numbers, in any other season, would have him being bandied about as an MVP candidate -
Romo:
1. has a career winning percentage over .600.
2. has the best fourth quarter passer rating among active QBs.
3. was 4th in QB rating this season.
4. was 5th in TD passes this season.
5. had the 3rd least interceptions of any QB with more than 400 attempts this year.
his numbers, especially this year, were that of an Elite QB. Tebow will never come close to matching those numbers. and while he has absolutely earned the right to start next season as Denver's QB, i'm not convinced he'll be the starter the following season.
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| 29 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 350341311
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 12:52
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Tebowie (from Late Night with Jimmy Fallon)
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| 30 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 13:52
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cant believe I am gonna say this, but I think Tree is right re Romo. (And I am NOT a Romo fan). Aikman, was the utterly avg QB surrounded by greatness. Romo, is a pretty damn solid QB surrounded by.....I'm not exactly sure what.
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| 31 | Electroman
Donor
ID: 010833614
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 18:31
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And Romo has exactly the same amount of playoff wins as Tebow, 1! Romo might be a gifted athelete, but what is between the ears is lacking in terms of an elite QB.
And how can talk about what he is surrounded by? He has an elite TE. Had 3 solid WR's this year, not all healthy at the same time. And riddle me this, he hits a wide open Robinson I think in the first Giants game, and they are in the playoffs...
In conclusion, great fantasy QB, not a winning QB.
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| 32 | Tree
ID: 11034119
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 18:39
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You're going to compare Tebow's wins to Romo's? Lol. Let's see if Tebow can actually be a starting quarterback for two full seasons. So far, we're at zero.
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| 33 | Electroman
Donor
ID: 010833614
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 19:26
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You can, they both faced depleted teams, the Eagles had lost a lot of key players on defense that year, and never recovered from the loss of Jamaal Jackson the center a couple of weeks earlier, and Tebow faced a depleted Pittsburgh team.
I will say it again, Romo is a great fantasy QB, but he is not a winner. He has proved it time and again. Once again, I will point out this year, he missed a wide open receiver that could have won a key divisional game. Even his coach is nervous to give him the ball when the game is on the line. The same cannot be said of Tebow!
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| 34 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 20:37
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Once again, I will point out this year, he missed a wide open receiver that could have won a key divisional game.
and i will point out that if you can blame the QB for that loss, then you don't know football.
Three QBs, over the first 6 years of their careers, as starters:
Completions, Completion %, Yards, Yds/Game, TD:Int, Rating
#1 - 1672/64.5%/20,834/251.01/149:72/96.91
#2 - 1424/62.4%/16,303/198.8/82:78/81.62
#3 - 910/57.1%/12,341/171.4/80:63/82.17
care to name the QBs?
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| 35 | TB
ID: 451028614
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 20:48
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Romo -Aikman - don't know third
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| 36 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 20:54
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Let's see if Tebow can actually be a starting quarterback for two full seasons. So far, we're at zero.
Tree seriously that is the most rediculous statement I have heard against Tebow.
Tebow has only been in the league for two seasons.
How many seasons did Tom Brady have as a starter and the end of his 2nd season?
You are making a huge mistake to predict Tebow's future on his current skill set.
Granted he can look absolutely terrible at times, but he has earned the respect of his veteran teammates based on his work ethic.
I believe he will continue to improve and will prove you and the other naysayers wrong.
Predictions for: The Hoodie vs The Goodie II?
Win or lose it been a fantastic ride.
The Broncos were basically done at 1-4 and decided to "allow" Tebow the chance to show why he wasnt the starter.
It wouldnt surprise me if the thought process was put Tebow in, he will suck, we will put to rest the fans clamoring for Tebow, we will get a high draft pick and draft a different QB in 2012.
Making the playoffs would have been enough for a good story.
Actually winning a playoff game is gravy.
My guess is the Patriots win the game, but it will in no way diminish the best story of 2011.
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| 37 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 22:18
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Tree seriously that is the most rediculous statement I have heard against Tebow.
why? it's true. he has yet to start a season as the starter. he'll go into next season as the starter. let's see if he can hold the job.
why is that ridiculous?
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| 38 | Great One
ID: 23041321
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 22:32
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What game did Tebow take the job over? what is his record since then? i know he lost 3 in a row at the end, were there 5 wins before that?
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| 39 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 23:08
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Its ridiculous because typically QB's spend time as backups before they are given starting jobs.
Brady was a backup his first two seasons.
Aaron Rogers was a backup for 3 seasons.
Romo spent 4 years as the backup.
How long did Steve Young back up Montana?
Brett Favre barley played his first season in Atlanta and didnt become the starter until week 3 of his 2nd season.
Both Montana and Marino were backups for their first seasons.
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| 40 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Fri, Jan 13, 2012, 23:10
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#38
Tebow was 7-1 before the 3 losses including 6 in a row.
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| 41 | Donkey Hunter
ID: 53751821
Sat, Jan 14, 2012, 00:10
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I think Tebow and all QBs who are starting today are facing extremely high expectations due to the recent success of young QBs. Sanchez and Flacco immediately came into good teams and led them to the playoffs. Sam Bradford looked great as a rookie, as did Stafford when he was healthy, and Newton and Dalton this year.
Because of all those players there seems to be a certain expectation that a rookie can come in and immediately be a good NFL QB. But this season Sanchez, Flacco, and Bradford are all starting to get questions asked about whether or not they are that good or whether or not they fell into a system that hid their flaws.
Today's society is all about instant gratification and we have to know immediately if someone is any good or not, but these things take time.
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| 42 | Electroman
Donor
ID: 010833614
Sat, Jan 14, 2012, 08:43
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If you start comparing stats of todays QB's against QB's from the past, then you don't know football. Today's game is made for passing the ball. So stats are going to be better. But you are also proving my point, Romo is a fantasy QB, that is it. And the point that he misses a key pass in a game is huge. Those are the type of plays that seperate elite QB's from the Romo's. I hope the Cowboys keep Romo as their QB for a long time, because that assures the league that they will not win a SB for a long time. He will find some way to blow it.
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| 43 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Sat, Jan 14, 2012, 15:51
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He will find some way to blow it.
As a LONG time Minn fan (yes SZ, cept for the year I abandon them in protest over Favre), I recall a sportswriter saying this about an upcoming Minn-Dall playoff game. The then Dallas QB and the "He" referred to by that writer? Roger Staubach.
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| 44 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 00:05
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well that was an impressive performance by Tebow.
this is a guy who completed more than half his passes in exactly two games this season. he completed more than 15 passes in exactly two games this season. this is a guy who completed 25 passes in his last three games combined.
he won some games. he made some clutch plays.
most of those wins came when his defense allowed 15 or less points. i'm sorry, but Tim Tebow just isn't that good of a QB, and today he was again exposed despite playing a very weak secondary.
perhaps he develops significantly next season, but i just don't see him being the starter for Denver come 2013.
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| 45 | Electroman
Donor
ID: 010833614
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 08:57
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Its easy to crap all over people, because mistakes are glaring. Everyone knew the Broncos had no shot today, give Belichick an extra week to prepare, forget it. He may not be a great QB, but he has fight in him. I prefer his demeaner after a failed play than the Manning bros who seem to pout. I hope that Tebow proves all the haters wrong and starts for a long time in the league, he is exciting to watch!
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| 46 | Khahan
ID: 54138190
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 10:31
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Tebow was simply in over his head this season. He did an admirable job (more than admirable). What is going to be scary is him next year after he's gotten mini-camps and pre-season reps under his belt to help develop his game more.
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| 47 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 11:32
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Next season may or may not be his break out season, but I shudder to think what this kid could be after 3 or 4 seasons are behind him and he has had time with his rcvrs, like these others have had.
Would I bet my team on him next season, based on this year? No. Would I bet that with another season or two under his belt, he makes the team a winning bet? Yep.
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| 48 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 11:48
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Its easy to crap all over people, because mistakes are glaring.
um. yea. that tends to be why someone isn't as talented. Tebow's numbers speak for themselves, and they're just not that good.
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| 49 | weykool
ID: 1611471811
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 15:10
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So when Tebow throws a lazer pass to Thomas and hits him in stride to beat the Steelers it isnt Tebow its the defense and the most amazing stiff arm you have ever seen.
But when the defense gives up 45 points to Brady and the Patriots you are now willing to assign credit/blame to Tebow.
Pardon me if I dont take you future predictions seriously when your ability to analyze the games already played is seriously lacking.
Your prediction that IF Tebow doesnt improve he will not be the starter in 2013 is correct.
However, he will improve significantly and will be the starting QB for Denver when 2013 arrives.....bank on it.
Lets also keep in mind Brady has 2 really good tight ends.
Brees has Graham.
Romo has Whitten.
Rogers has Finley.
Can you name the Broncos TE?....I cant without looking it up.
In today's game you need a good TE to be able to check it down to when your receivers are covered instead of being forced to throw it away.
Having that king of safety valve really improves a QB rating.
In addition when you run on virtually every first down and only pass on obvious passing downs your QB rating will suffer.
Tebow isnt the only one who needs to improve the play calling has potential for growth as well.
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| 50 | Seattle Zen
Leader
ID: 055343019
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 15:11
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Being a starter in the NFL has a lot to do with opportunity, especially at quarterback. The 32 starting QB's in the NFL are not the 32 best QB's in the world, many backups are better than the worst starters. I foresee Tebow being the Broncos' starting QB for the next two seasons because:
A. They are not going to bring an expensive, high quality back up or spend a high draft pick on a QB.
B. He is a national media sensation and good for attendance and fan morale.
C. They play in the worst division in football and will be competitive even with a horrible offense.
But he is a terrible quarterback who will only get slightly better. I've seen him before, a fleet QB who has a very suspect arm and can't complete the easiest of passes - Taravis Jackson. Yeah, Tim Tebow is TJak. TJak has been a starter in the NFL for multiple years and he is pretty damn awful. He has happy feet, poor football awareness and terrible throwing mechanics.
He also won six games in a row as a starter in his sophomore year. but he wasn't on the cover of Sports Illustrated.
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| 51 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 15:13
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Whatever ability Tebow does or doesnt possess, what he DOES have, is the ability and impact of significantly elevating the play of his squad. THAT alone, makes him starter quality and with time, his skills most certainly will improve.
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| 52 | Seattle Zen
Leader
ID: 055343019
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 15:21
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Oh, forgot to mention, Sarge's approval is the KISS OF DEATH!
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| 53 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 15:32
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actually Zen, its the kiss of gauranteed injury. With a confirmed history in FF, which tops even the Madden or SI curse(s). :)
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| 54 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 15:50
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So when Tebow throws a lazer pass to Thomas and hits him in stride to beat the Steelers it isnt Tebow its the defense and the most amazing stiff arm you have ever seen.
But when the defense gives up 45 points to Brady and the Patriots you are now willing to assign credit/blame to Tebow.
not at all what i said. i said in the majority of Denver's wins, the offense barely moved the ball, while the defense made stop after stop after stop.
the numbers speak to that, and the long term success of a team that operates like that is not likely.
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| 55 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Sun, Jan 15, 2012, 16:01
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not to pick nits, but that formula has served Balt pretty well over the past 10 or so years.
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| 56 | An Old Hippie
ID: 420241610
Mon, Jan 16, 2012, 11:27
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I don't think another defense like BLT will ever be seen in the NFL again. Rule changes and such have favored the offense and will continue to do so as the game becomes less violent. Building a SB contender by defense is a thing of the past in my opinion. SF was exposed this weekend.
Also for as great as those BLT defenses were how many SB did they win? Counting that win how many SB did that great defense even play in?
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| 57 | TB
ID: 451028614
Mon, Jan 16, 2012, 23:42
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I keep seeing people say that, yet three of the four teams remaining have top NFL defenses and the 4th team (Patriots) has been playing very well now that their secondary is healthy. Hard to argue against "defense wins championships" when the two explosive offensive teams were knocked out this weekend.
I am not going to take the time to go look, but I would guess most Superbowl Champions had a top 15 defense vs a bottom 15 defense.
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| 58 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Mon, Jan 16, 2012, 23:59
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Long ago as it was, I have to defer to the great Vince Lombardi..."Defense wins championships. If they cant score, I cant lose."
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| 59 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Tue, Jan 17, 2012, 00:10
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i'm a big believer that defenses absolutely win Super Bowls...as long as you have a big-time QB.
the 2002 Tampa Bay Bucs and the the 2000 Baltimore Ravens are the sole exceptions in recent memory, and both rode extraordinary defenses to their titles without having big-time QBs.
the Bucs held opposing QBs to a 48.4 rating that season - that's nearly impossible to imagine. the Ravens allowed just over 10 points a game. another nearly impossible number to imagine.
before that, you probably have to go back to the Redskins in 1991 for a team winning a Super Bowl with anything less than a Superstar QB.
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| 60 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Tue, Jan 17, 2012, 00:14
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Not so sure I'd call Phil Simms of the NYG a "super star". Solid? Absolutely, but it was that defense which won them their Super Bowl. (Didnt look, was that pre 1991? Dayum, I am getting old[er])
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| 61 | TB
ID: 451028614
Tue, Jan 17, 2012, 01:14
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Simms was pretty accurate and had a heck of a playoff run that season.
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| 62 | Tree
ID: 41512710
Tue, Jan 17, 2012, 01:25
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Didnt look, was that pre 1991?
yes. 1987.
and i'm pretty sure Simms is in the Top 20 all-time for most pass yards. i'd say that makes him pretty good.
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| 63 | RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 00:56
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Looked up Simms 'all time' slot. Its #23. Interestingly, Vinny Testaverde and Kerry Collins are in the top 10. Hmm...
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| 64 | sarge33rd
ID: 211332319
Tue, Jan 24, 2012, 01:18
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Simms was inhuman accurate in that particular SB. 80% completion rate IIRC. Cant recall (and didnt bother looking) the exact att/completions, but the 80% thing sticks soundly in mind. (20 for 25 seems right, but wouldnt swear to it)
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