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Subject: RIFC 2012: Getting Started
Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Sat, Jul 21, 2012, 10:54
I am pleased to announce the 14 invited managers for the 2012 RIFC:
Bonka
Beezer
youngroman
TD
Swinganamiss
Wiggs
Frick
Holt
loki
gurudan
jzapps
Challenger
TB
Guru
This list includes the top-6 seeds from last year's RIFC, 3 teams from each AAA league, and the (playoff) winner of the AA league. Since I was among the top 6 in the RIFC, this left one spot open. I evaluated the records of the bubble teams in each of the leagues and selected TB to fill the remaining slot.
All 14 of these managers have accepted my invitation to play in the 2012 RIFC. So the league is full.
Next steps:
1. Sign-ups for qualifying leagues. I will start a separate thread for this.
2. Discussion of possible rules changes. (We can use this thread for that.)
3. Discussion of any other issues that should be resolved before the start of the draft.
Once again, I plan to have the RIFC and all qualifying leagues hosted at myfantasyleague.com. The drafts will be held at MFL as well.
RotoGuru will pay the cost of all RIFC leagues. A voluntary donation of $5 per manager is suggested to help defray the cost. (Managers who have already contributed this year are exempted.) If you wish to donate to the cause, please see the instructions on the GuruPatron info page.
Last year, the draft began on August 23, and was completed in 7 days. This year, I would expect to start the draft a bit later - probably sometime in the August 24-27 time frame. The first game of the NFL regular season is on September 5. |
Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well.
[Lengthy or complex threads may require a slight delay before updating.] |
| 141 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Wed, Aug 15, 2012, 11:37
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By the way, I was the top scoring team the last 2 years out of the 3rd spot in 2010 and 13th in 2011. Maybe we need to watch out for gurudan and TB :)
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| 142 | The graham crackers
ID: 48713212
Wed, Aug 15, 2012, 12:02
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1. Bonka
2. Jzapps
3. gurudan
4.
5.
6. russelldl
7. Frick
8. TD
9.
10. wiggs
11. youngroman
12. holt
13. TB
14. Guru
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| 143 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 15, 2012, 12:50
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loki is up
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| 144 | loki
SuperDude
ID: 4211201420
Wed, Aug 15, 2012, 14:33
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I won RIFC AAA playoffs with 10 last year--hoping for the same with #9. Then again I drafted 9th in RIBC AAA this year and 8 of my 1st 10 picks ended up on the DL.
1. Bonka
2. Jzapps
3. gurudan
4.
5.
6. russelldl
7. Frick
8. TD
9. loki
10. wiggs
11. youngroman
12. holt
13. TB
14. Guru
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| 145 | The Beezer
ID: 0944216
Wed, Aug 15, 2012, 14:42
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Last year I ended up with the 5 slot by default and had the best regular season record. This year, I have twice as many options, but I might as well take the 5 hole again.
That gives swing the 4 slot and we are set for the draft.
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| 146 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 15, 2012, 17:17
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Got a response to my question on blind bidding tiebreakers:
If a custom waiver order is defined then it will over-ride any sort criteria on the Waivers setup.
If this is really correct, then we can set the playoff tiebreaker to favor the top seeded teams. As such, I'm going to amend the playoff rules to add this.
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| 147 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 02:07
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I can't seem to find it quickly, so when were we going to officially start the draft? The 27th?
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| 148 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 08:15
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My initial thought was in the Aug 24-27 time frame. I believe some expressed interest in completing before the Labor Day weekend, which would push it up to the Aug 24.
Does that sound OK to everyone?
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| 149 | TD
Leader
ID: 036331011
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 09:16
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I prefer starting the draft on the Aug 27th after the last week 3 preseason games are played on the Aug. 26th.
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| 150 | Loki
ID: 444181922
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 11:30
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I also would like to wait until after the weekend's preseason games. If there is any desire to start later, I am ok with that. I will be away on 27th and traveling on the 28th with spotty Internet service, but will have an IPad with 3G with me.
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| 151 | The graham crackers
ID: 48713212
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 11:48
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It would be nice to start the 24.
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| 152 | wiggs
ID: 40601413
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 11:54
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I would vote for the 27th but could do either
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| 153 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 14:15
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I'd rather the 27th. We'll be done in time for the season, won't be an issue, even with Labor Day. Just need to get good queues going like last year and we can be done quickly.
Having the beginning of the draft going while preseason games are in progress is just a bad idea. It's completely unfair when an injury happens. We'll be drafting during the last preseason week, but we'll be near the end and someone can still get lucky with it being their pick when an injury happens, but it won't be like if I take Foster at 1.01 and he goes down then Tate is now taken at 1.10 or something.
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| 154 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Thu, Aug 16, 2012, 14:17
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Actually I guess we'd be in the mid rounds during the week 4 games, but starters don't play much in those so it's not a big deal.
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| 155 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 10:45
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Sounds like there is consensus to wait until Monday, Aug 27. I'm OK with that. Everyone should be prepared to knock off 3-4 rounds per day.
Last year we started on Aug 23 and finished on August 30. Of the 336 total picks, 168 were made via queue - exactly half. If we can meet that standard, we should be fine.
I'll plan to activate the draft on Sunday (8/26), as there are only two preseason games scheduled that day. We can either begin (untimed) on Sunday, or at least use that day to set up queues as needed for Monday.
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| 156 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 12:16
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Sounds good. I'll pick that Sunday some time to get the draft going.
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| 157 | The Beezer
ID: 96572318
Fri, Aug 17, 2012, 18:26
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Sunday the 26th sounds good.
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| 158 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Sat, Aug 18, 2012, 13:31
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Are we using conditional blind bidding? Not sure this was ever brought up or decided. Using conditional blind bidding, the waivers will basically be done like they were in the past, but adding in a bid value. Without conditional, you throw all your bids in one list.
I'm not entirely sure exactly how each works in different scenarios because I don't think I've used both systems and I can't find enough info on the MFL site about them.
I think it may be a good idea to set each up and do quick test runs on the site so we can give people an idea of what they're doing before the season starts and can decide on which setup we want to use after seeing if any issues would arise with a certain setup. We would need at least 2 people to coordinate to test out a case where they bid on the same player in different conditional bid rounds to ensure the higher bid always wins, regardless of what round.
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| 159 | The Beezer
Dude
ID: 191202817
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 10:09
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I think I have a pretty good grasp on this and would be happy to do some testing we can share with everyone. From what I have seen, conditional bidding makes much more sense for this league. It ensures that people can get who they want while minimizing the risk that they end up getting several pickups at a position when they only want 1. The example from question 14 on this MFL help page might help.
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| 160 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 11:32
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Their examples don't cover what I'm wondering about. So I'd like to test it to be sure.
Conditional definitely gives you more control over things, but if for some reason it doesn't always go to the high bidder regardless of round, that would be a major issue. I'm pretty certain though that rounds have no meaning other than giving you that control over things.
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| 161 | judy
Dude
ID: 7771722
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 15:09
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So as I see it, it goes round by round.
It deals with all the round 1 bids, with a player going to the highest $$. After the player is awarded, that manager is done with round 1. And the other managers don't get him, so it looks to their next bid for a different player. It does all the round 1 bids first.
THEN it looks at the bids for round #2. If the player was taken in round 1, even if it was a lower $$ bid, the round 2 manager "loses."
So it is essentially the same -- each round is treated intact and the decider is the $$$ bid.
Yah?
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| 162 | judy
Dude
ID: 7771722
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 15:10
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so my interp is different from BonK..
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| 163 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 15:11
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That's the issue, if it works like you mention Judy, that's essentially useless. Players should always go to the high bidder, no exceptions.
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| 164 | judy
Dude
ID: 7771722
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 15:13
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I sent my thoughts in 161 to the support MFL team...
Will let you know what they say.
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| 165 | SwinganaMiss
ID: 771116
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 21:18
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Yeah, I was assuming non-conditional would be used. Conditional definitely needs some clarification.
If I read Beezer's MFL link correctly....
If Beezer bids $5 for Smith and $8 for Johnson in Rd 1, and I bid $2 for Johnson and then $7 for Smith...he gets Smith for $5 and I would get Johnson for $2 ? True?
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| 166 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Sun, Aug 19, 2012, 21:22
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Yeah, that's what I want to find out.
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| 167 | TB
ID: 451028614
Mon, Aug 20, 2012, 19:56
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I just read the rules and it seems very clear that bids don't have "rounds" unless we set conditions, which we should not do. We should ensure we set tiebreakers for similar bids and it looks like it has the system in place that allows that.
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| 168 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Mon, Aug 20, 2012, 20:01
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Judy contacted MFL and the person who responded said that the highest bid always wins, regardless of round. The rounds are there so you have more control over how you handle your bids.
You can do things like bid on the same player but at different amounts in different rounds dependent on what happens in prior rounds. If you know how to handle the logic for it anyway.
I think I may go try testing things out in a test league in the next day or two to be sure.
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| 169 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Aug 20, 2012, 22:09
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I was under the impression that we should be using conditional bids.
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| 170 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Mon, Aug 20, 2012, 22:11
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Conditional looks good. I'm messing around with a test league now and a high bid from round 2 is winning the player over a lower bid from round 1. Also, if multiple teams bid the same amount on multiple players, the team with the tiebreaker will win all those players, assuming they can roster them.
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| 171 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Mon, Aug 20, 2012, 22:17
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As an example, with conditional bids you can do the following:
Team 1
Round 1
Bid $3 on Player A
Bid $5 on Player B
Round 2
Bid $2 on Player B
Team 2
Round 1
Bid $2 on Player A
Bid $1 on Player B
Round 2
Bid $1 on Player B
Team 1 wins Player A at $3 and Player B at $2.
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| 172 | SwinganaMiss
ID: 771116
Mon, Aug 20, 2012, 23:19
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Answering my own post {165} is TRUE.
Assuming conditional bidding, what if it was like this?
Team 1
Round 1
Bid $4 on Player A
Bid $5 on Player B
Round 2
Bid $4 on Player B
Team 2
Round 1
Bid $3 on Player B
Bid $5 on Player A
Which is the correct answer>
1) T1 gets both A for $4 and B for $4
2) T2 gets A for $5 and T1 gets B for $5
3) T1 gets A for $4 and T2 gets B for $3
4) Other?
If you asked me this morning, I would've said #3 was correct. Now I am hopeful/assuming the answer is #2. Seems like the logic could get messy w/ a bunch of teams involved.
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| 173 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 00:33
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Team 1 gets both for $4 each, so #1.
After looking at it a bit, this makes complete sense to me. The system will basically look at the first bid in each round and give those priority over 2nd (and 3rd, 4th, etc), since rounds are merely placeholders for your conditional bids (give me player A, if not, give me B). It would make sense that A should go to team 2 at $5, but it's the 2nd bid in that round. Essentially, to me, it seems as if team 2 is taking a risk, trying to get player B at $3 and if not, then A at $5. But there was someone else willing to put a 'priority' bid on player A at $4 so they are awarded A. Hopefully this makes sense.
Basically, if you want multiple players (if you're dropping multiple players) you HAVE to set up multiple rounds of bids.
Also, if you add to Team 2: Round 2: $5 for player A then T1 gets B for 5, T2 gets A for 5.
This stuff is probably hard to follow unless they've dealt with logic before, such as us programmers.
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| 174 | loki
SuperDude
ID: 4211201420
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 13:32
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Re 158-173, especially 173:
This stuff is probably hard to follow unless they've dealt with logic before, such as us programmers.
This non-programmer would like to propose a re-vote on using blind bidding.
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| 175 | holt
Donor
ID: 308491916
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 13:58
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Can't wait for all the additional fun of placing bids every week. Ugh. Sorry, hate to be a sore loser. It's already been voted on. I will soldier on.
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| 176 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 14:47
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The non conditional is simple, we can just use that.
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| 177 | SwinganaMiss
ID: 771116
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 17:23
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Doesn't really make sense to me. To me this bid setup in a single round...
Bid $3 on Player B
Bid $5 on Player A
Means.... I would like B for $3, but if I don't get him I am willing to spend $5 on player A.
He shouldn't be punished for trying to get B on the cheap.
See this one below....
Team 1
Round 1
Bid $11 on Player B, drop player Y
Round 2
Bid $1 on Player A, drop player X
Team 2
Round 1
Bid $10 on Player B, drop player Z
Bid $10 on Player A, drop player Z
If T1 gets Player A for $1 , then T2 should be ticked off!
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| 178 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 17:33
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I just set that example up and T1 got B at 11 and T2 got A at 10. So...I don't know why the other example ended up the way it is.
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| 179 | SwinganaMiss
ID: 771116
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 18:05
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Flipping the rounds for Team 1 shouldn't matter, so who knows. The scenarios are basically testing the same thing, but they came up w/ two different results.
Where are all our BB experts? Maybe they've all used non-conditional in previous leagues.
Another question to decide.....will we allow everybody to see everybody else's bids? I believe you can turn that on/off also.
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| 180 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 18:12
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I'll try the original example again later when I get a chance and see what happens. Maybe I was an idiot and entered a number incorrectly.
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| 181 | The Beezer
Dude
ID: 191202817
Tue, Aug 21, 2012, 22:43
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Stick to this guidance for non-conditional bids and you should be good:
- Focus each round on the spot you want to fill (either the already-opened roster spot or the player you want to upgrade)
- Order your players in each round by how much you want them (this may differ from the amount you want to bid on each player)
- You'll normally want to copy your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc bids from round 1 in round 2 (assuming you have multiple players worth dropping)
Regarding seeing non-winning bids, I recommend this not be allowed. Lying about your losing bids is part of the fun! :)
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| 182 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Wed, Aug 22, 2012, 00:04
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Beezer meant to say conditional bids. Non-conditional just has you throw everyone in one big list.
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| 183 | The Beezer
ID: 0944216
Wed, Aug 22, 2012, 06:01
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Yes, thanks for the correction Bonka.
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| 184 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 22, 2012, 09:51
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While I do think there is merit to using conditional bids, I'm wondering if we should go slowly here and use non-conditional bidding for the first year. Once we better understand the thought process of blind bidding, we can decide whether the benefits of a conditional system outweigh the complexity.
Question: Suppose we have non-conditional bidding, and I have just one slot to fill. I set up two bids:
Bid $4 on Player A
Bid $4 on Player B
Essentially, I want either player A or B, and I'm willing to pay $4. Assuming that $4 is the top bid on each player, which one do I get?
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| 185 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Aug 22, 2012, 11:06
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[184] ...or, if I have only one open spot on my roster, can I even submit a pair of blind bids (using non-conditional bidding)?
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| 186 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Wed, Aug 22, 2012, 13:24
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It's only going to give you one guy for one slot, but you can put in requests for multiple players to make sure you get one. As far as A or B, I'm not sure. I'm guessing whoever is listed first. It may say that on the site even. I can test it later when I'm not busy.
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| 187 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Wed, Aug 22, 2012, 23:00
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Looks like it will go to the highest bid first, regardless of position in the list, then goes by the order listed for bids that are the same value.
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| 188 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 11:49
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To those who have used blind bidding previously:
Were those non-conditional?
Is that likely to be sufficient?
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| 189 | Bonka
Sustainer
ID: 019742310
Thu, Aug 23, 2012, 13:40
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I use both. Shouldn't really matter much either way.
I think non conditional should be easier for everyone to use, so I'd suggest using that for now. No matter which you use, someone will run in to a problem with it at some point.
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| 190 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 25, 2012, 10:36
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I have setup our league to disallow conditional blind bids. We'll keep it simple, at least for the first year of blind bidding.
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