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0 Subject: 2014 G24 PRE SEASON

Posted by: judy - Dude [7771722] Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 14:52
Time to get going.
Sign in here.

This site is for our preseason discussions, when to draft, rule tweaking, etc. Keepers will be a separate thread.
1 judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 14:59 		The CHAMPION ARIZONA CARDINALS under the leadership of Nick Foles and the coaching of Judy are ready to defend their title!
2 Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 15:17 		New Orleans Saints are in.
3GO
      ID: 065299
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 15:21 		Jets, In.
4 CT
      ID: 516361614
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 15:37 		CT's Cleveland Browns are back. Let's hope the recent Cleveland streak of luck continues in the G24.
5Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 17:53 		Rosters are loaded. Did anyone remember if they added someone for the playoffs? Player needs to be deleted...
6youngroman
      ID: 57047243
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 18:11 		The Bengals will be back and are hoping for less bad luck this season. they led the league in PA which is always bad in fantasy.

here is a special message to Mr. Vernon Davis, TE of the Bengals: "Can you please show up at training camp. I need you."

Judy, here is the list of transactions. week 13 ended on December 1st, so everything after that should be void when it comes to keepers.
7Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 19:05 		Thanks yr. I'll make a list and post it. Maybe even this week!
8Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 19:27 		Here are the players added during the playoffs who need to be dropped from rosters once we open up the roster change ability.

acquired Caldwell, Andre DEN WR
acquired Dareus, Marcell BUF DT
acquired Butler, Donald SDC LB
acquired Bowman, Zackary CHI CB
acquired Rogers, Da'Rick IND WR
acquired Mikell, Quintin CAR S
acquired Cole, Trent PHI LB
acquired Paulsen, Logan WAS TE
acquired Miller, Zach SEA TE
acquired Smith, Harrison MIN S
acquired Suggs, Terrell BAL LB
acquired Wright, Tim TBB TE
acquired Asiata, Matt MIN RB
acquired Webb, Lardarius BAL CB
acquired Simpson, Jerome MIN WR
acquired Demps, Quintin KCC S
acquired Verner, Alterraun TEN CB
acquired Heyward, Cameron PIT DE
acquired McGahee, Willis CLE RB
acquired Webb, Lardarius BAL CB
acquired Tuck, Justin NYG DE
acquired Quarless, Andrew GBP TE
acquired Dawson, Phil SFO PK
acquired Rogers, Da'Rick IND WR
acquired Butler, Donald SDC LB
acquired Bostic, Jon CHI LB
acquired Boykin, Jarrett GBP WR
acquired McKelvin, Leodis BUF CB
acquired Wake, Cameron MIA DE
acquired Pollard, Bernard TEN S
acquired Beason, Jon NYG LB
acquired Tanney, Alex CLE QB
acquired Graham, Corey BAL CB
acquired Carpenter, Dan BUF PK
acquired Maualuga, Rey CIN LB
acquired McGahee, Willis CLE RB
acquired Barkley, Matt PHI QB
acquired Miller, Zach SEA TE
acquired Cassel, Matt MIN QB
acquired Vernon, Olivier MIA DE

No rush. Only an issue if any of these guys would be a keeper -- no can do!
9 mjd
      ID: 164222114
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 22:10 		Chargers are in.
10PeteN.
      ID: 8550318
      Wed, Jul 16, 2014, 22:12 		Cowboys are in.
11Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 07:31 		Got an email from Will/Coldwater Coyotes.

Denver will not be able to play this year.

If you have a candidate to join us, let us know. No rush yet.
12Doug
      ID: 166331713
      Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 14:33 		In
13 TD
      ID: 516501715
      Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 16:51 		New York Giants are in.
14judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Thu, Jul 17, 2014, 20:27 		doug -- what team?
15 Building 7
      ID: 2011541213
      Fri, Jul 18, 2014, 11:56 		Hey Judy. Congratulations on last season. The Baltimore Ravens are in.
16 jseth333
      Dude
      ID: 24100310
      Fri, Jul 18, 2014, 14:38 		The San Fran 49ers are in.
17Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sat, Jul 19, 2014, 09:29 		From a mike pereira tweet:

@MikePereira: The League average last season was 48 points per game. I think that was an all-time record. How about a littlle balance.

Thoughts about our points awarded???
18 WG
      ID: 59552022
      Sat, Jul 19, 2014, 16:08 		I would be interested in joining if there is an opening.
19Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Sun, Jul 20, 2014, 11:45 		Buffalo Bills are in.

I think Amit (WG) would be an awesome addition to this league and fully endorse his candidacy...
20Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Sun, Jul 20, 2014, 11:46 		Doug - Oakland
21 Valkyrie
      ID: 486182122
      Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 23:18 		I think I am in /Carolina
I also endorse Amit
22Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Mon, Jul 21, 2014, 23:57 		Lions are in.
23PeteN.
      ID: 8550318
      Fri, Jul 25, 2014, 00:29 		I endorse WG as well. Also worth noting he won G20 Hoops and G20 Baseball...in his first year in each league.
24deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 11:31 		Eagles are in for 2014!
25Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sat, Jul 26, 2014, 21:52 		Will be back from vacation Thursday to try to contact those who have not signed in yet...

So far only one opening with a strong potential manager to take over.
26judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 16:16 		OK NOW>

I believe we agreed to keep the DST but to tweak the point totals to reflect the massive increase in the NFL offensive numbers.

I have this survey from Nerf for points;

I did a similar study to Judy's. but for the whole season through week 13. The following are the instances of the final scores by categories:

0: 1
2-3: 8
6-10: 39
11-14: 26
15: 2
16: 10
17: 24
18: 4
19: 10
20: 29
21-24: 76
25-28: 52
29-35: 64
36-42: 27
44-49: 9
51-55: 3

average score: 23.25
negative scores: 155
positive scores: 153
points from negative scores: -472
points from positive scores: 923
average points per game: 1.174

I have the same thing for yards in the next post.
27judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 16:17 		Here is the yard surgery from Nerf:

Yards:

0-149: 2
150-174: 2
175-199: 9
200-224: 17
225-249: 16
250-274: 28
275-299: 37
300-349: 83
350-374: 45
375-399: 35
400-424: 33
425-449: 32
450-474: 15
475-499: 13
500+ : 17

(there were also 3 games at 600+)

average game: 350.88
negative scores: 190
positive scores: 111
points negative: -307
points positive: 140
average points per game: -0.435
28judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 16:20 		here are our current point values for scoring of total points by the offense:

Total Points Allowed 0-0 21
Total Points Allowed 1-5 14
Total Points Allowed 6-10 10
Total Points Allowed 11-14 7
Total Points Allowed 15-15 6
Total Points Allowed 16-16 5
Total Points Allowed 17-17 4
Total Points Allowed 18-18 3
Total Points Allowed 19-19 2
Total Points Allowed 20-20 1
Total Points Allowed 21-24 0
Total Points Allowed 25-28 -1
Total Points Allowed 29-35 -3
Total Points Allowed 36-42 -5
Total Points Allowed 43-49 -7
Total Points Allowed 50-99 -10
29judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 16:22 		Here are our points for yardage allowed:

Total Net Yards Allowed 0-149 3.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 150-174 3
Total Net Yards Allowed 175-199 2.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 200-224 2
Total Net Yards Allowed 225-249 1.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 250-274 1
Total Net Yards Allowed 275-299 .5
Total Net Yards Allowed 300-349 0
Total Net Yards Allowed 350-374 -.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 375-399 -1
Total Net Yards Allowed 400-424 -1.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 425-449 -2
Total Net Yards Allowed 450-474 -2.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 475-499 -3
Total Net Yards Allowed 500-999 -3.5
30 Valkyrie
      ID: 12758217
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 18:58 		Although as previously mentioned I have problems with any changes to keeper league scoring anything is possible if everyone consents. Rather than tweaking the defense I would rather just drop it altogether but only if no one objects. I think it is a better game w/o the team defense.
31Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 19:16 		What happens if you add 5 to every "points allowed" scpre and 3.5 to every "yards allowed" score?
32Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 21:56 		We did vote to keep team defense in January. 16 yea's.
33Valkyrie
      ID: 12758217
      Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 23:46 		Ok 16 people objected. My position now consistent with my previous statement is that we should not change the scoring in a keeper league w/o unanimous consent. People built their team based upon the existing team defense rules and not upon some yet to be agreed scoring. Any change now should require unanimous consent. Can't change rules midstream.
34Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 03, 2014, 09:03 		Found this:

Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers expects passing offenses around the NFL to be even more productive this season than they were last season, thanks to a stricter emphasis on illegal contact, pass interference and defensive holding.

Rodgers said after officials worked a Packers practice that the way the officials are calling those penalties this year, it can only help quarterbacks and wide receivers.
35youngroman
      ID: 57047243
      Sun, Aug 03, 2014, 09:27 		is there an option to only count offensive points against for the defense? this would give defenses an automatic boost for something that they can't do anything against.

if a teams average score is 23.25 with defense touchdowns included, it is probably around 20 with them excluded, which means 1 fantasy point.
if the same would be true for the yard category and the average of 350 yards allowed should score a minimum positive score, we could add 1.5 to any yards allowed range.

this means if your defense is just average you get 1 point for the points allowed, 1 point for yards allowed and a few more points for some defensive achievements (sacks, turnovers, TDs).
if your defense is scrap you have to hope for more defensive achievements to get a positive score. and a defense without sacks or turnovers isn't a good defense anyway and should score near zero, just likely a turnover-prone QB or a fumbling RB that gets benched.
36youngroman
      ID: 57047243
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 07:51 		just looked into the MFL rules and they support the option of only counting offensive + special team scoring, but not scoring after offensive turnovers:

In the For Commissioner > Setup > Custom Scoring System Setup you have three options:

1) Total Points Allowed: This is the total points scored against a team in a game. (This matches the scoreboard points at the end of a game).
2) Special Teams Points Against: This is the points scored against a team on Special Teams, which only includes points scored on Punt Returns and Kickoff Returns. It also includes any conversion points scored after the TD (extra point or a 2 Pt Conversion)
3) Offensive Points Against: This is the points scored against a team on Offense, which only includes points scored via Passing and Rushing TDs as well as Field Goals.

You can then individually use the Total Points Against or the Offensive Points Against categories or can combine "Offensive Points Against" + "Special Teams Points Against" scoring categories. You can hold the CTRL key down when highlighting both of these rules in the "Available Rules Column" and then click the "Add to Rules" to combine them to count as one rule.

combining option #2 and #3 is what I am thinking of.
37Doug
      ID: 878410
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 11:08 		Re: 31... nothing changes, other than the penalty for going without a Team D for a week (due to Bye) is higher. Assuming everyone has at least one Team D on roster to field a full lineup (is that a requirement?) So there might be more motivation for teams to trade for Team D on a bye week. But the relative value of say the #1 Team D vs. the #20 Team D stay the same.

For the vast majority of games in our league, it would have no net effect on the outcome... my team's total fantasy score for the week increases by 8.5, and so does yours.
38Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 12:35 		Right! Part at least of the objections to our current system come from having too many negative scores. Upgrading the point allotments would alleviate that. And, as you say, make it more worthwhile to make a point of being able to cover your Team DST's bye week.
39Frick
      ID: 17640169
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 13:55 		I believe we decided last year that you are required to have a valid line-up, but with such a deep league and the explosion of offenses, it is very often a better bet to have a D on a bye than active.
40Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 18:04 		39. Yes.
41Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 20:33 		I did work out a proposal for raising scores for Team D and it's in one of those threads. I understand the idea that raising the scores consistently would mean the same in the outcome, it seems counter-intuitive to have an average Team D consistently scoring negative points on the basic thing it's trying to do: prevent points and yards. And it wouldn't be that big of a deal if it was a 12 team league, but at 24 when every D is being used, it becomes more of a problem.
42Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 20:43 		Here is my proposal, dated 11/20/13

I was looking over the rules for DST and think that they are solid but could use some slight adjustments with the way offenses operate in this era.

Points: raise the 0 score from 21-24 to 25-28. The next three existing levels would be -1, -3, and -5, with -5 being the minimum score. 21-24 would then give a score of 1. Each score from 20 - 2 would give increasing points from 2 - 20, and a score of 0 would give 22 points. Do not count points not scored on the defense (opposing defensive TDs)

Yards: raise the category scores by .5 across the board.

Turnovers: reduce points from turnovers from 2 to 1.
Sacks, blocks, safeties, TDs remain the same

This will even the playing field a bit, and take out some of the violent swings in points for many defenses from week to week. I think the biggest problem with DST in a deep keeper league is that there are not enough good ones for everyone, and unlike all other players, are very unpredictable.
43Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 20:44 		A followup with scores, posted 11/21/13

gshade that is an interesting and very simple solution and probably should be considered. I did some preliminary tests on my defense scoring adjustments. I tried the scores on 6 teams of varying levels. MFL had stats for everything but blocks and safeties, but those are rare enough that it shouldnt affect the numbers too badly. For Houston (and only Houston) I added the extra wrinkle of taking away defensive TDs against, since they have had by far the most this year.

Team, Old score, New score, old standard deviation, new standard deviation, old high, old low, new high, new low.
PHI, 57.5, 64, 7.42, 5.91, 15, -11.5, 15.5, -6
KC, 183, 186, 10.82, 11.51, 32, -1, 37, -.5
MIA, 76.5, 78.5, 7.22, 6.69, 19.5, -3.5, 22, -2
HOU, 51, 66, 4.71, 3.88, 10, -3, 13.5, 2
CAR, 163, 165, 10.78, 10.08, 37, 1, 35.5, 2.5
ATL, 19, 33, 5.58, 4.74, 11, -5, 11.5, -2.5

As you can see, in all 6 examples points increased, and in 5 out of 6 examples, the standard deviation went down, even when the points went up. Low scores were mitigated.

One thing I did notice is something we forgot to add to MFL - special teams TDs. Defenses are supposed to get credit for their special teams TDs, and this has not been happening. Theres only been 13 of these all year, and a very poor Vikings team has 3 of them, so its not really a game breaker, but probably should be added back for 2014.

One other thing that might be neat to add, if possible, is return average, divided by 10. so if you average 5 yards per punt return you get .5 points, 20 yards per KO return gets you 2 points. something nice to make it a true DST.
44Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Mon, Aug 04, 2014, 20:45 		gshade's proposal, dated the same day:

Id be content with just elimating negative total pts for defenses. If your team DST gives up 600 yrds and 50 pts, instead of losing 10pts on the week, you cap your downside to 0pts.

Its far too easy for the worst Ds in the league to score negative pts on a consistent basis (and unfortunately everyone has to start one). With all other positions, the chances of scoring less than 0 are exponetially lower.

To put it in relative terms, it helps to compare starter points by position for QB, TE, K, & DST (all positions limited to one starter or where an owner is likely to use only one player). The lowest scoring franchise at each of these positions has scored the following YTD:

QB: 79 (highest = 294)
K: 75 (123)
TE: 71 (173)
DST: 19 (183)

The worst DST is much, much lower than the others. A big reason (not the only) are multiple negative games. If you elimate those negative games, the DST number jumps from 19 to 35.

I dont think its a perfect improvement, but I do think it eliminating negative pt games would be the easiest to implement and bring some stability to the position.
45Doug
      ID: 878410
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 10:42 		IMO, don't change relative values of the scale or for turnovers, just change total value for D by raising all values (like post 31). In that example, you'd only get a negative score by allowing 43+ points and 500+ yards.

If that still scares you, then add 7 instead of 5 to the points allowed and make it so you only go negative at 50+ points and 500+ yards. Add 10 if your hyper-paranoid about there ever possibly being a negative score for a Team D.
46judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 22:42 		Here is the order by standings:

AZ 19-7
SD 19-7
BAL 18-8
KC 18-8
CAR 17-9
DET 17-9
PHL 16-10
NOLA 15-11
BUF 15-11
NYG 14-12
JAX 14-12
CLE 14-12
GB 13-13
CHI 13-13
CIN 12-14
HOU 12-14
DEN 11-15
SF 11-15
IND 10-16
DAL 9-17
NYJ 9-17
OAK 8-18
MIN 6-20
SEA 2-24
47judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 22:43 		Here are the final playoff results with winnings.

1. AZ (100 + 5)
2. SD (60 + 5)
3. KC (42.50)
4. CAR (42.50)
5. BUF (30)
6. BALT (22.50)
7. DET (17.50)
8. PHL (15.00)

9. CLE
10. JAX
11. HOU
12. CIN
13. NYG
14. GB
15. NOLA
16. CHI

17. DEN
18. SF
19. DAL
20. OAK
21. NYJ
22. IND
23. SEA
24. MIN
48judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 22:44 		Any help anyone can provide will be appreciated! I forget from year to year and this is more complicated than RIFC!
49judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 22:46 		Here are draft guidelines:
Draft positions:
The draft order: there is to be a draft lottery for the 16 non-playoff teams to determine the top four selections in the first round. Picks 5-16 will fall in after that in reverse order of record; Picks 17-24 reverse of the prior years playoff finish. Subsequent rounds will be in reverse order of regular season finish for picks 1-16. Picks 17-24 remain unchanged. The draft will NOT snake. Only players currently in the MFL database are eligible to be drafted.

Looks like last year GURU did a ping pong ball thingie to set the top four picks...Ref?
50judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 22:49 		Tie breaker for [46] is total points scored. Will revise list based on that sometime Thursday...
51judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 22:56 		It looks like last year's keeper deadline was August 20...The corresponding date for this year would be

Tuesday, August 19th.

Any objections? Draft to start right after, probably the 21st.
52judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 06, 2014, 23:06 		Corrected finish order:

PLAYOFF TEAMS
AZ 19-7
SD 19-7
BAL 18-8
KC 18-8
CAR 17-9
DET 17-9
PHL 16-10
BUF 15-11

LOTTERY TEAMS
NOLA 15-11
CLE 14-12 (1856)
NYG 14-12 (1837)
JAX 14-12 (1739)

CHI 13-13 (1721)
GB 13-13 (1691)

CIN 12-14 (1863)
HOU 12-14 (1833)

SF 11-15 (1784)
DEN 11-15 (1658)
IND 10-16

NYJ 9-17 (1663)
DAL 9-17 (1624)
OAK 8-18
MIN 6-20
SEA 2-24
53Doug
      ID: 878410
      Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 16:31 		Can we do the lottery sooner than later? Would like to have at least a week before the keeper deadline to make deals.
54Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 18:55 		Lottery doer on vacation; lottery will be done week next week.
55Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Fri, Aug 08, 2014, 22:08 		Slack, gshade, cc rider and beastie have not signed into mfl. Anyone know how to contact them to see if they are playing this year?
56Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Sat, Aug 09, 2014, 09:42 		Schedule is done. Emails sent out to those 4 with a Monday deadline before we start looking to replace. WG has been awarded Denver.

Remember, the playoffs DO COUNT for the top 8 teams as far as the draft goes.
57Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 15:35 		{55}
and everyone is signed in!! Thanks!!

Greetings to WG who joins us this season.
58Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 20:06 		{57}

Oops. Was looking at 2012. Still need slack, gshade and cc rider to let us know...
59Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 10, 2014, 21:00 		Cc is in...
60judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 16:58 		I found this trade on the 2013 thread -- is it the only one:

KC:
Miles Austin
Vikings D
Cole Beasley
2014 1st Round
2015 1st Round (If KC finishes in Top 5 in 2013 or 2014; becomes 2nd round in 2015 if KC finishes 6-24 in 2013 and 2014)

Seahawks:
Stevie Johnson
Greenbay D
Tamba Hali
2014 11th Round
2015 4th Round (If KC finishes in Top 5 in 2013 or 2014; becomes 3rd 2015 if KC finishes 6-24 in 2013 and 2014)
61judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 17:00 		Found these on the site:

Baltimore Ravens / Oakland Raiders Trade
Baltimore Ravens gave up Dareus, Marcell BUF DT;Porter, Tracy OAK CB
Oakland Raiders gave up Jackson, Steven ATL RB;Wake, Cameron MIA DE
Comments: + Ravens 1st round for Raiders 5th round.


Fri Nov 8 7:51:52 a.m. ET 2013
3. Baltimore Ravens / New York Jets Trade
Baltimore Ravens gave up Karim, Deji HOU RB
New York Jets gave up McGahee, Willis CLE RB
Comments: + Ravens 5th for Jets 8th.
62Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 38502923
      Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 23:09 		Hey. I am back. Looked at the thread in the football forum a couple of times, but didnt see this one.
63Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Mon, Aug 11, 2014, 23:13 		Geez slack. Under the wire. Sent a ton of emails. Do you have a new one????

We are about to replace gshade. Does anyone know how to contact him other than his email???
65Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 18:57 		The greg.shade11@gmail.com or gps5000@psu.edu are my only means of contact I have on him. Can you confirm what emails you have?
66 Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 19:20 		I heard from gshade and he will not be able to play this season.

So we need a manager, ASAP. Please send names to me.
67Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 19:35 		Mario LeMoose
. Details to follow.
68Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 21:12 		Deadline for canidates to replace gshade will be midnight Wednesday.

We have three so far. Make sure you ask them if they are interested.
I will send out a league wide email Thursday with names and background.
69Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Aug 12, 2014, 22:46 		Just ran the lottery:

Pick 1: OAK
Pick 2: CIN
Pick 3: SEA
Pick 4: MIN
71Building 7
      ID: 167151020
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 07:48 		For 17-24, you are supposed to go by the playoffs, not regular season.
72GO
      ID: 065299
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 12:34 		And I drop as usual. Got bumped from Doug Martin to David Wilson last time. My string of luck better translate to a winning the damn lottery in g20 hoops.

What is the tiebreak on order with NYJ vs. DAL - was that points scored?
73Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 12:47 		Tiebreak is points scored. See 52 above.
74Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 12:51 		Thanks B7. I will fix based on info below from 2013 thread:

These playoff games:

1/2 SD V AZ
3/4. KC v CAR
5/6. BILLS V BALT
7/8. LIONS V EAGLES

Led to this order:

1. AZ (100 + 5)
2. SD (60 + 5)
3. KC (42.50)
4. CAR (42.50)
5. BUF (30)
6. BALT (22.50)
7. DET (17.50)
8. PHL (15.00)
75Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 12:54 		71: that is correct and I emailed her that the other day.

RE: Applicants - we have maybe 7 people wanting to take over KC. For those who have responded by saying I'm interested, please add more.

72: I got bumped as well. I may have the worst team, but I started off well and got lucky and that helped my record and hurt my draft placement. Oh well, it is what it is. At least holding on to Schaub means I have a QB this year--if he counts. ;)
76 Building 7
      ID: 2011541213
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 13:03 		We have at least one opening in the Political Football league for those that don't get into G24.
It's a 12 team PPR keeper league that's been going about 10 years here. Email me if interested.
77Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 15:20 		HERE IS THE CORRECTED DRAFT ORDER.

ROUND ONE:

1. OAK
2. CIN
3. SEA
4. MIN
5. DAL
6. NYJ
7. IND
8. DEN
9. SF
10. HOU
11. GB
12.CHI
13. JAX
14. NYG
15. CLE
16. NOLA
17. PHL
18. DET
19. BALT
20. BUF
21. CAR
22. KC
23. SD
24. AZ


ROUND 2 and all subsequent rounds, except for trades listed above:

1. SEA
2. MIN
3. OAK
4. DAL
5. NYJ
6. IND
7.DEN
8. SF
9.HOU
10. CIN
11. GB
12.CHI
13. JAX
14. NYG
15. CLE
16. NOLA
17. PHL
18. DET
19. BALT
20. BUF
21. CAR
22. KC
23. SD
24. AZ
78Nerfherders
      ID: 161121811
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 17:51 		Just curious: Are we allowed to switch teams in this league? KC and MIA are two of my teams in real football, but that would mean a switch to the AFC.

I don't know that I would do it since it might mess up my JuJu with Matt Stafford.

On a side note, it's interesting to see which teams are not claimed. Some of them have pretty rabid fanbases.

New England
Pittsburgh
Miami
Tennessee

Washington
Atlanta
Tampa Bay
St Louis
79Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 20:03 		Great question. I wonder how the original team names were chosen. Probably each original manager got to choose...?
80Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 20:58 		Only new owners are allowed to switch teams and only certain teams are available for the reasons you have described.

When we started we let people pick their teams until full and then gave options for the final few teams.
81Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 21:20 		I changed my team to Lions from Rams when I joined the league. Would have taken Miami but the team was in the NFC.
82Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 22:19 		Keepers due midnight August 19. Draft to begin Thursday August 21.

If you forget to list keepers, we will pick for you.

Here is the thread for keepers:

http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/read.pl?board=footst&thread=1105&lastpost=1407982336

83Valkyrie
      ID: 12758217
      Wed, Aug 13, 2014, 22:53 		Before we determine keepers I think we need to satisfy the DST issue. Are numbers changing or staying the same?
84 deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 00:05 		Judy, I had to replace my PC & lost all fantasy data and info. Would you re-invite me to the league. I regained access to all my email IDs today. (I hate Win8)!!

Depending on results tomorrow, I may be back in the hospital soon to get IV antibiotics from a MRSA infection I aquired from foot surgery on 8/1. Best case is a shunt & I go thru the CDC Dallas for meds. Worst case is I'm in the hospital for who know how long. ugh!

Count me in aas this is the only league I will be in this year.

Peace - Roy
85Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 08:03 		Coin flip (between Tree & WG) results: WG wins
86Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 08:53 		ok, catching up. what did we flip a coin for?
87youngroman
      ID: 57047243
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 08:58 		this is the 2nd year in a row where Andy Dalton and Russell Wilson share the same bye week. anyone interested in Andy Dalton?
88Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 09:01 		is there a link to rosters somewhere?
89Frick
      ID: 17640169
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 09:09 		I'm not sure the link will work, but if you log into MFL it should be under My Leagues.

MyFantasyLeague.com
90Promize
      ID: 20683013
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 09:31 		I know we post keepers on the forums for a backup, but you do realize there is a function on MFL that you can set your keepers... It also allows you to see your roster.

Top of the Page
Reports ====> Franchise ====> Keepers

Select / Save
91Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 10:31 		Can we also have a keeper thread?

I always found that helpful when marking off players on the draft board...
92GO
      ID: 065299
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 10:54 		we do - need a moderator to add G24 to the subject line

I will personally be shopping leftovers so be sure to list them. Need a couple more keepers.

Also my #6 overall pick is for sale for a RB/WR type.
93WG
      ID: 552431321
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 10:55 		Re 85

Is that to choose between KC and Den?
94Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 11:04 		Judy sent me the following email this morning:
We have two new managers for G24 and we need a coin flip to determine who chooses first to pick their team. The new managers are WG and Tree. Could you run a coin flip for us and post the winner in our thread?
95Nerfherders
      ID: 161121811
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 11:07 		So are we changing DST? The lack of discussion leads me to say no.
96Nerfherders
      ID: 161121811
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 11:15 		Promize - sent you an in-game message.
97WG
      ID: 552431321
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 11:27 		I will select KC. Thanks.
98Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 12:35 		Ironically, let's go with gshades proposal (since he's no longer with the league) from last season:

Id be content with just elimating negative total pts for defenses. If your team DST gives up 600 yrds and 50 pts, instead of losing 10pts on the week, you cap your downside to 0pts.

Its far too easy for the worst Ds in the league to score negative pts on a consistent basis (and unfortunately everyone has to start one). With all other positions, the chances of scoring less than 0 are exponetially lower.

To put it in relative terms, it helps to compare starter points by position for QB, TE, K, & DST (all positions limited to one starter or where an owner is likely to use only one player). The lowest scoring franchise at each of these positions has scored the following YTD:

QB: 79 (highest = 294)
K: 75 (123)
TE: 71 (173)
DST: 19 (183)

The worst DST is much, much lower than the others. A big reason (not the only) are multiple negative games. If you elimate those negative games, the DST number jumps from 19 to 35.

I dont think its a perfect improvement, but I do think it eliminating negative pt games would be the easiest to implement and bring some stability to the position.
99Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 12:39 		It's simple and gives us a season to look at the results before implementing major point changes to our scoring.

Personally, with offensive scoring getting higher and higher, something needs to be done...that said, let's see how that goes in 2014 before implementing a major scoring change that would impact keepers.
100Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 12:42 		GO - I just saw that link. Sorry.

Another thing, and this is more for transparency purposes, I would like people to list the players they aren't keeping. You never know who might bite in a trade on one of the castoffs...
101Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 12:54 		I think there are too many points for DST. I don't want to eliminate negatives but if we reduce the points it should help mitigate the issue.
102Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 12:59 		Here is the keeper link -- I forgot to add G24 to the title:

Please list non keepers as well as someone might want your discards!

http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/read.pl?board=footst&thread=1105&lastpost=1407982336
103Doug
      ID: 5701412
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 13:00 		Adding a few points to team D is more equitable than "eliminating negative games" because it achieves the same end without modifying relative value of team Ds. I also think it puts a fairly mild amount of pressure to cover your bye, which isn't a bad thing IMO... But not like your dead in the water if you don't cover it either. Basically, I still vote for post 31. :)
104Slizz
      ID: 8701412
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 13:02
G24 Keeper Thread
105Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 13:05 		Sorry --- keep forgetting to delete text link when sending invites.

106Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 13:28 		Post 28 scores is a bigger problem than post 29. We allow defensive scores to hurt our scoring. I just think if we tone those scores down, I don't care as much as post 29--though with the new rules changes all Ds are going to be way down in scoring this ssn.

I agree we want people to try and trade to cover byes, etc. We are also required to start a D every week.
107Nerfherders
      ID: 161121811
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 14:00 		Is there something that has to be done to set MFL to this season? For example RIFC is showing 2014 and projected stats, but we are not. I also can't figure out who has a bye when because my roster is still set with 2013 byes, etc.
108Promize
      ID: 20683013
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 15:29 		Make sure your using the new league website Nerf:

http://www7.myfantasyleague.com/2014/home/34962#0
109Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 15:42 		Schedule will be entered into mfl this weekend.
110Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 15:44 		106 the D can be on bye though...
111Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 16:13 		to avoid having to go through 100+ posts, were there any trades that involved draft picks? maybe something akin to my Denver team having trading all their players for about a dozen first round draft picks? :D

(when Steven Hauschka was your third leading scorer (and only 8 points away from being the leading scorer), you wonder where all the other players went. lol)
112Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 17:07 		110: when you are trying to make the playoffs, many teams trade for their bye week players--including D.
113Nerfherders
      ID: 161121811
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 17:07 		Yes, I am an idiot. Thanks Promize.
114Tree
      ID: 48659111
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 17:45 		Youngroman - email me at treesham at gmail dot com?
115Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Thu, Aug 14, 2014, 19:19 		i'm looking at moving Vjax. anyone interested please feel free to email me.
116Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Fri, Aug 15, 2014, 19:48 		Trade announcement:

Slizz/BUF Olsen plus 9.20 for judy/AZ 2.24 plus 11.24

Please confirm!!
117Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Fri, Aug 15, 2014, 20:29 		Confirmed.
118Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Fri, Aug 15, 2014, 20:52 		Gotta figure it it how to put trade into mfl. How about I dump/trade Clemens or ponder to slizz so he can dump him?
121Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 16:21 		What about something like this...

Total Points Allowed 0-5 10
Total Points Allowed 6-10 5
Total Points Allowed 11-14 4
Total Points Allowed 15-15 3
Total Points Allowed 16-16 2
Total Points Allowed 17-17 1
Total Points Allowed 18-24 0
Total Points Allowed 25-30 -1
Total Points Allowed 31-36 -2
Total Points Allowed 37-42 -3
Total Points Allowed 43-48 -4
Total Points Allowed 49-99 -5


Total Net Yards Allowed 0-199 2.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 200-224 2
Total Net Yards Allowed 225-249 1.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 250-274 1
Total Net Yards Allowed 275-299 .5
Total Net Yards Allowed 300-374 0
Total Net Yards Allowed 375-424 -.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 425-449 -1
Total Net Yards Allowed 450-499 -1.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 500-549 -2
Total Net Yards Allowed 550-999 -2.5
122Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 16:29 		Ref, this seems to reduce the effect of D/STs generally, as you recommended before.

Can you tell us why you think this is a good idea? Anecdotal evidence is admissible.
123judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 18:12 		i have input the draft. Someone should check it.

NOTE: It should not reflect any draft picks swaps due to transactions. They are in 60 and 61 above.
124judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 18:21 		These are the draft pick swaps I see from 60 and 61.

Help me here, I often reverse these...

KC gets SEA #11
SEA gets KC #1
----
BALT gets OAK #5
OAK gets BALT #1
----
BALT gets NYJ #8
NJY gets BALT #5
----
new one (#116)
AZ gets BUF 9.20
BUF gets AZ 11.24
125judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 18:22 		Hope to do schedule tonight. Have the spreadsheet for it, just need to sit down and do it ~ an hour, no sweat...
126Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 19:18 		You mean 2.24 :)
127Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 21:54 		Oops

BUF gets AZ 2.24
AZ gets BUF 9.20
128Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sat, Aug 16, 2014, 21:56 		Right no 11.24 in there...
129youngroman
      ID: 57047243
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 07:58 		Trade Announcement:

YR's Bengals trade
QB Andy Dalton
RB Lance Dunbar
1.02
3.10

to Tree's Broncos for
WR Vincent Jackson
1.08
7.06
130Tree
      ID: 48659111
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 09:42 		Confirmed.
131Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 10:21 		122: Yes, with the IDPs and the massive increase in offensive scoring as everyone anticipates with the overly heightened illegal contact rules, this addresses the dumbing down of the DSTs. Good DSTs will still really be helpful as we have a lot of points for INTs and other defensive plays--including TDs/sacks/FF/FR/safeties/etc.

Since the points and yards should be a problem for every team on average, this seems to address that worry and makes even marginal DSTs palatable and may encourage contenders to trade to cover that bye week DST.
132Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 11:10 		Also, widened the avg yard allowed base. Our avg shouldn't be a negative result. Stepped down negatives by 1 instead of multiples in points allowed as well. Basically, we want the stud DSTs to still be studly vs the bad ones, but we can't have the avg be negative. At that rate, if every position was scored that way, on avg, your score each week would be negative--or JUST positive when you add in the points for various plays.

I think we have to look at this in two ways. First in relation to all the other DSTs and then relative to all the other Fantasy players. When looking at this, it does seem to me that the DST is too powerful in both directions and skews the overall balance.
133Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 11:38 		I have been in rebuild mode on my team the past few seasons. I have been drafting long-term youngsters. The problem is that I can only keep 9 players. I'd be willing to trade at least one of them for high draft picks or maybe a 2 for 1 or even a 3 for 2 type deal. Read about them before dismissing.
134Tree
      ID: 48659111
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 16:11 		How many rounds is our draft?
135Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 16:19 		TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Baltimore Ravens Trade

Draft Pick 3.19

Buffalo Bills Trade

Ladarius Green, TE, SD
Draft Pick 6.20

Ravens Management, please confirm
136Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 16:29 		134: 11 rounds
137Building 7
      ID: 597331715
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 16:34 		Trade is confirmed.
138judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 17:34 		Trades can now be entered on MFL.
139judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 17:37 		138. Including draft picks...
Let us know here that you have done it.

AZ/BILL trade is entered on MFL.
140youngroman
      ID: 57047243
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 17:55 		Judy, are the draft picks in MFL correct? post 77 has me with the 10th pick for rounds 2+, but MFL has me with the 9th pick. I don't want to mess with anything if I enter the trade with Tree.
141Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 18:39 		Let me check...

Which team is yours?

142Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 19:33 		It looks like I messed up HOU and CIN in the drafts round 2+. Post 77 is correct.

HOU should be 9 and CIN should be 10.

Right YR?

Will fix tonight.
143GO
      ID: 344132921
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 21:35 		I vote in favor of Ref's proposal. I say we all vote on it or step up and propose something better.
144Doug
      ID: 166331713
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 21:45 		On the face of it, I'd be opposed to that proposal vs. others on the table. That one could change the value of Team D's relative to one another by changing the scoring brackets, vs. those propsoals that raise scoring across the board evenly (to avoid negative scores).

I could certainly be convinced otherwise with data that shows the #1 D last year would still be the #1 D... the #2 the #2... and so on, and that the total point differential between the top-5 Ds and the 20-25 (last starter) Ds stayed about the same as well under this proposal.
145Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 22:11 		144: It will be a heck of a lot better than existing and esp. with the new rule sin place. When you factor in all of the POSITIVE stats that DSTs receive, the negative scores will be diminished. The worst you could have now is -7.5 and that's giving up 49 points and 550 yards. If they get a couple sacks and an INT you are down to -3.5. I've had QBs and Ks with negative scores. Heck I've had a RB with negative before and a few have had WRs with a negative.

If we vote it down, we are looking at -13.5 starting value with 50 points and just 500 yds. When we gave the 21 points for the shutout originally, that was before we added yards allowed and bumped up the safeties and blked kicks/punts too. I submit this proposal is going to make it better for this ssn. If it's not good enough propose something else next ssn. This addresses the issues at least. I wasn't complaining about the system in place. Enough people were complaining, that I looked at the NFL avgs and our scoring system and tried to massage it to be more in line with the rest of our league's scoring system.

If we vote no, we will keep the system the same for this season as below:

here are our current point values for scoring of total points by the offense:

Total Points Allowed 0-0 21
Total Points Allowed 1-5 14
Total Points Allowed 6-10 10
Total Points Allowed 11-14 7
Total Points Allowed 15-15 6
Total Points Allowed 16-16 5
Total Points Allowed 17-17 4
Total Points Allowed 18-18 3
Total Points Allowed 19-19 2
Total Points Allowed 20-20 1
Total Points Allowed 21-24 0
Total Points Allowed 25-28 -1
Total Points Allowed 29-35 -3
Total Points Allowed 36-42 -5
Total Points Allowed 43-49 -7
Total Points Allowed 50-99 -10
29 judy
Dude
ID: 7771722
Sat, Aug 02, 2014, 16:22 Here are our points for yardage allowed:

Total Net Yards Allowed 0-149 3.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 150-174 3
Total Net Yards Allowed 175-199 2.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 200-224 2
Total Net Yards Allowed 225-249 1.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 250-274 1
Total Net Yards Allowed 275-299 .5
Total Net Yards Allowed 300-349 0
Total Net Yards Allowed 350-374 -.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 375-399 -1
Total Net Yards Allowed 400-424 -1.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 425-449 -2
Total Net Yards Allowed 450-474 -2.5
Total Net Yards Allowed 475-499 -3
Total Net Yards Allowed 500-999 -3.5
147judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 22:13 		YR -- I fixed the draft order. You are now #10...

Everyone needs to check their own draft order. I do the best I can but I also make misteaks.
148mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 22:47 		Did we address the points currently being charged to a D/ST that they did not give up? Like if a QB throws a pick-6. The D/ST gets charged with those points?
149Doug
      ID: 166331713
      Sun, Aug 17, 2014, 23:04 		I hear you Ref, I just think the existing proposals were better and don't know why we tossed them out in favor of this without any discussion or analysis. I also wasn't advocating for change, just that if we ARE going to change, it should be in a fair way. The other proposals at least didn't change relative value of Team D's for the most part, which I think is sort of the first rule "do no harm". Without doing a fair amount of analysis, I don't know what impact this proposal has in that regard, and just seems like it could have unintended consequences (happy to be shown wrong). The other proposals seemed simpler and didn't change Team D... this one feels sort of last second and like it might change the relative values, I think it's the suddenness of it that's giving me pause, esp. when there were others already on the table (posts 31, 42, and 44).

The most drastic of those in terms of changing relative values of team D was #42, so I'd prefer #31 and #44. The proposal we've voting on is more drastic than ANY of those other 3, and lacks any of the analysis a more drastic proposal requires (such as shown in post #43).
150Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 09:03 		148: No. Every time we talk about that, we get the blow back about what happens when it's returned to the 5 and then the offense scores. I'd be open to it, but I've brought it up at least 3 times over the last 10 years or so and it has been soundly defeated. In fact, most rule change suggestions either get no interest or when enough interest comes for a vote, they are soundly defeated.

149: No one seems to like anything. My adjustments were based on listening to what the complaints stemmed from and using the NFL/our historic averages. Based on these averages, point sections were expanded. If you look closely in 26 and 27 and my proposal, this still has the best defenses dramatically better than the worst. Also if you look NO DST is protected from that clunker that will get them negatives in a given week. The new proposal will help eliminate the threat of the good teams from going negative on that bad week.

I'm telling you what, many teams are going to be crying UNCLE this year with their DSTs if we leave it as is. Not saying this is perfect, but it is much better than the alternative. No crying this year about DSTs when this is voted down. We tried and no one else seems to care enough to come up with our get behind anything out there.
151Doug
      ID: 5701412
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 09:28 		Maybe try putting one or more of the other proposals up for vote as well. If more than one passes, we can vote between them to decide. I guess problem is we're about to draft, but with the more modest proposals maybe not a huge deal. Or vote now to make it effective next year. Just some suggestions.
152 CT
      ID: 516361614
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 12:18 		Trade Accepted

Denver Broncos will give
Year 2014 Draft Pick 9.07
To Cleveland Browns for
Stills, Kenny NOS WR
Year 2014 Draft Pick 10.15
153 CT
      ID: 516361614
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 12:19 		Trade between Broncos and Browns (Stills 10.15 for DEN 9.07) processed on MNF site.

ct
154mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 12:57 		Ref, I've been in this league for 6 or 7 years now and I don't ever recall any discussion of 148 or any blow back. To me, it makes perfect sense.

If a pick gets run back to the 5 and the offense scores, at least the D/ST gets charged with points against where they were on the field.

And how many times does a turnover occur and that team's offense gets on the field and turns it back over on the next play? Not a ton, but it does happen. So just because a team runs a pick back to the 5 doesn't automatically mean a TD. Might be just a FG or depending on the game situation, a stop by the D.
155Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 13:16 		154: Odd you don't recall because the one year it finally garnered enough support for a vote, it was soundly defeated. I am for making that change and I proposed it. Why would I "invent" that?

Seems to be to be a lot of apathy when it comes down to the time to actually make a change. Many vote against changes simply because they don't like change. Most simply vote on if it will specifically help their team right then rather than looking at the big picture. Their right.

There is a lot of work to set up this league. The commishes spend so much time on that--they don't have much time for their own teams. We think this proposal makes the most sense and there are at least 3 people behind it. But just getting people to vote at times proves challenging. Heck, even getting everyone to sign in took a lot of time. We just get tired of all the bitching about a rule or scoring system and no one has any ideas to fix it. Or if they do, we can't get 3 or 4 people to support it to make it even worth getting a vote together. So, we tried one last ditch effort to get something to at least help for this season. If it is defeated, that's fine, that's why we have a vote. But don't bitch at the commishes about it this ssn because we tried to do something and squeeze it in before the deadline. No other proposal had more than one other person that we saw speak up for it. None of us are mad or will be upset if this proposal gets defeated, we simply feel like we are wasting our time.
156mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 13:50 		I never said or implied that you invented it. I don't recall is all I said.

When was it last proposed is what I'd like to know.
157Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 14:04 		156: doesn't seem that long ago but I get seasons mixed up. I know the Baltimore manager who is no longer in the league was really behind it, but not sure if that's when it came up for a vote. Seems to me like it was 4 or 5 seasons ago. Once it got defeated in the vote, I dropped it. With new managers coming in, obviously things can change, but if someone else wants to propose it and get enough support, I'd vote for it.
158mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 15:25 		Time does fly. B7 has probably had Balt 4 years or so and beyond that I don't remember much of anything.

Doug voted no for the current proposal, but said he'd be open to looking at other options, including what I'm proposing... that's 3.

What percent of votes are needed to approve any D/ST change, including the one we are currently looking at? I'd change my vote to yes if we added 148 to the current proposal.
159Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 19:57 		158: It would need to be a separate vote at this point. If another person or two chimes in and say they are for it, we will get the vote going on eliminating points against DST when defenses/STs score on your DST. If this is defeated, we won't bring it up again until next season. As far as anyone changing votes, they have until the vote ends to do so. Vote ends when everyone has voted, time runs out (not specified at this point but before keepers are due tomorrow) or yeah or nay hit 13.

Scoring changes have always been a simple majority or 13.

Major fundamental game changes, like adding/eliminating positions, changing keepers, etc. would need a 2/3 vote or 16.
160 Doug
      ID: 166331713
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 20:58 		Been trying to trade down from 1.01 a few spots, but not much luck. So, I'll look to trade up instead!

1.19 and 2.03 might be available as a bundle for a team picking early in the 1st round... or one of those picks and a later pick for a team picking more in the middle of the 1st round. Ping me if interested.
162Doug
      ID: 166331713
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 22:08 		Since no analysis was provided for the proposal, I just spent 40 minutes (of my copious free time) running some numbers using the proposed changes to scoring alone (not yardage) using last year's week 1 through 16. Wish this had been done beforehand and could have been discussed along with the other proposals that were put on the table earlier in the thread.

The top 5 defenses would lose an average of 37 points each over the season. By contrast the "last 5 starters" (ranked 20-24) would lose less than 5 points each... and the worst 5 Ds overall would actually GAIN over 7 points on average. This proposal isn't getting rid of negative Team D scores, it's basically reducing the overall value (not scores, value) of Team D as a position in our league by at least 1/3 (the top Ds outscored the "last starters" by ~150 points last season, but would only have done so by ~100 under these scoring changes). What's more, since scoring allowed and yardage allowed stats are likely aligned, the change is probably a bit more severe once those are incorporated as well, and further squeeze all Team Ds to the middle.

Under the scoring changes, New Orleans drops from the #11 D last year to #15... Dallas climbs up to #18 from a previous #22... and overall, only 11 of 32 teams maintain their same rank order of Team D. (Apologies for any mistakes, and sorry I don't have the yards allowed data handy to run those numbers as well).

I provide this info because the proposal significantly changes the value of Team D and may impact my keeper decisions (and votes), and people should know what's going on and that info had not been provided. The other proposals maintained rank order for most if not all 32 teams, and did not devalue Team D overall (while still addressing the negative points issue that was raised).

P.S. Anybody want to trade for the Browns? Under the scoring changes of our proposal they'd be the #16 Team D last year (previously #19)!
163Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 22:40 		Everyone knows/should know my stance -- eliminate the position.

As for the keeper argument, consider that I have a top 10 defense that should be kept. I've got no qualms in saying see ya...Even after the trades I made.

Just wish I had more support for it.
164Vampire Weekend
      Dude
      ID: 24100310
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 22:57 		If we need a second to get moving on eliminating team def, then count me in...
165Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 23:08 		In it's place, another idp flex. 6 offense, 6 defense, 1 kicker. Would make the idp depth that much more compelling.
166Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 23:15 		Trade Announcement

Kansas City Chiefs (WG)
send
8.22

to

New Orleans (Toral)
for
10.16
Kenny Britt WR
167WG
      ID: 34021519
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 23:16 		Confirmed
168Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 23:17 		I would vote for removing ST/opposing-defence points from DST scoring.
169Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 23:20 		163: Slizz I am so tired of thinking about DSTs that I could care less about them at this point.

The problem is that not enough people really speak up when it's needed. If there is a sudden groundswell to eliminate DST altogether, we'd have to push back the keeper deadline. But understand, this is a major rule change and would take 16 votes to pass it. You had better hurry in drumming up support though!

162: yes the best Ds using last year's numbers will be less buff and the worst Ds won't be as bad. Obviously this year is a new year and the new enforcement of illegal contact should make all Ds worse with our current numbers.
170Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Mon, Aug 18, 2014, 23:31 		I've been banging the elimination of dst drum for 3 seasons now...each year the scoring keeps increasing and increasing and it seems more people are open to it.

we have such an in-depth league with respect to idp's that having a team dst is a redundant category. It's as arbitrary as having a team offense...which we don't have and no fantasy football offers it, at least to my knowledge.

Eliminating dst and adding another idp flex would increase the value of IDP players to where they would be as valuable as offensive players on a roster. Judging from some of the keeper lists, it's clear idp isn't as valued as it should be.
171mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 00:03 		Trade Announcement

KC trades 7.22

to

SD 10.23 and Bryce Brown
172WG
      ID: 34021519
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 00:05 		Confirmed
173 WG
      ID: 34021519
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 00:10 		Still looking to add another keeper for a pick or pick swap. Will send out feelers but also feel free to email me. jseth333, sent you an email inquiry. Thanks.
174 Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 09:17 		I have several very promising youngsters on my team. I have been drafting them in the first couple rounds the past 3 years. Now have too many keepers at the same position. Looking at maybe doing a 2 for or 3 for 2. I'm also looking to upgrade my QB. Inquire within...
175Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 10:08 		OK, have read this thread again and including 36, there is more than enough behind the idea to bring up the scoring against your DST from that teams' O/ST.

Based on this thread and previous thread, there is also enough interest to dump the DST, but it will take 16 votes to pass. Obviously, if it does, these other votes would be moot. We also may have to push back the keepers a little.

Obviously, timing is critical and we would like all votes to be decided today. The first vote is still undecided. I'll put another thread up and send another email explaining things. Please vote asap.
176Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 11:37 		Thank you for those of you who were able to vote so quickly. By my count we are currently...

1. 3 more yes votes and this will pass
2. 3 more No votes and this will fail

We still a have four managers who have yet to vote for the initial vote.
177Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 16:42 		Since I screwed it up royally last year, how is the first waiver wire order determined? Reverse if draft or reverse of final finish?
178Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 16:55 		Reverse of draft order throwing out lottery. Basically reverse of the 2nd round without factoring in trades. Or simpler reverse of reg ssn finish for bottom 16 and playoff finish for 8 playoff teams.
179Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 16:58 		Still waiting on votes from Yokel, CC Rider and WG

http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/read.pl?board=footst&thread=1106#1408476904
180Doug
      ID: 878410
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 18:49 		Trade:

OAK sends 7.03 to SF
SF sends 12.08 and Jerod Mayo to OAK

Will wait for SF (jseth) to confirm before updating my keepers in the other thread, but plan is to swap Mayo in as a keeper in place of Browns D.

Anybody wanting to trade for Browns D (my cheatsheet shows them as projected #11 ranked D) they are available for a modest pick upgrade.
181Doug
      ID: 878410
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 18:52 		I think that's actually going to be 11.08 instead of 12.08 that's changing hands... looks like 11.08 is his last pick (12.08 must have been moved already).
182Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 18:53 		Doug: the draft is only 11 rounds :)
183Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 18:55 		I should have asked when I posted that: how does Cinci DEF rank under new system?
184jseth333
      Dude
      ID: 24100310
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 18:59 		Thought I could get the 12th round past him…

Confirm - 11.08 and Mayo for 7.03
185Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 20:13 		The first vote on D has passed as well.

Scoring change has passed.
No DST against your DST has passed.
Eliminating DST has failed.
186Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 20:24 		Guys, want to make sure I didn't misunderstand the proposal that we just voted for and passed.

My understanding was that if your DST's team O scored on you it would not count against you AS WELL AS if the opponents STs scored on you it would not count against you. YR thought that STs SHOULD count against you because, your STs count when you score.

What was your understanding?
187Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 20:46 		It was not my understanding that we totally eliminated special team points.

If your special team gives up a TD through a ko or p return, it counts against your total team defense,

If the QB throws a TD pick 6, it does not count against your total team def, but the PAT does? (The PAT is special teams...???)
188Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 20:49 		But we did agree to change/lower the point values for yards and total points -- right?
189Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 20:58 		188 Judy; Right
190Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:00 		187 Judy: Your friend mjd may have created a monster.

But it won overwhelmingly.
191Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:26 		190 where is the proposal formalized?
192Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:30 		191 The statement of what we were voting on.
193Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:32 		PAT after a pick 6 can't count as it came about because of the pick 6. It is a POINT AFTER TOUCHDOWN, not an independent act.
194jseth333
      ID: 557331920
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:33 		By the question and the vote we eliminated scores against in the pick 6 scenario and in special teams scenarios.
195Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:39 		194: correct, it was mjd's proposal that got the backing and that is the wording I used to form the vote. It was almost unanimous as well. If we want to tweak it next season we can.
196Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:51 		Ugh! I am going to cut someone I really don't want to cut. Which of the youngsters will break out and which one will not? Having a tough time with this and most of it is based on potential. Ah the life of a rebuilding team with never a high enough pick.
197mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:52 		No scores count against your D unless they are on the field when said score occurs is what I proposed. Not charged for an offensive turnover score, ST scores, or PAT.

Upon further review, perhaps ST points should count against a D/ST, since they do benefit if they score. But that can be tweaked next year if we deem it necessary.
198WG
      ID: 34021519
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:53 		Hey BMD, you around? Sent you an email inquiring about a last minute offer/deal.
199beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:54 		Yes, I am.
200WG
      ID: 34021519
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 21:58 		Might have sent to wrong email, got one we can communicate at?
201beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 22:04 		No, you sent it to the right one. I replied.
202Building 7
      ID: 167151020
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 22:09 		I need GO to accept our trade from last year on MFL.
203mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 22:15 		Hey Judy, remind us again how to mark our keepers, please.
204Building 7
      ID: 167151020
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 22:24 		Once you are certain your keepers are correct, you can enter them yourself using Reports --> Franchise --> Keepers.
205mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 22:31 		Thanks Bob.
206Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:05 		Car gives 3.21
AZ gives shone green plus 10.24
207beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:07 		Guess, my deal with Carolina is off the table? I tried to accept it but said they'd go over the roster limits.
208Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:09 		Car needs to drop a player for it to go through...
209Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:13 		Guess I need to stay up til 11:59 to smooth any rough spots...
210beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:13 		Car gives 2.21
Hou gives Anquan Boldin
211Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:14 		197. So basically we have a team DEF not a team D/ST...
212Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:16 		211: No our DST can still score a TD for 6 points FOR us.
213Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:17 		Still need keepers from WG who no doubt is madly trying more trades and cc rider/bears...I emailed both a while ago...

Time stamp will determine if they make the deadline.
214Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:18 		212. When I do the scoring revisions, someone is gonna have to check it out!!! Hahahahahaha...
215beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:19 		WG gets Blout and bmd's 7th and 11th round picks
bmd gets WG's 6th and 9th round picks
216WG
      ID: 34021519
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:26 		confirmed
217judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:35 		206, 207 trades were accepted but rejected as CAR needs to drop players.

Please assume these trades are valid, even though they are not yet posted on mfl.. CAR will add Greene and Boldin and drop ??
218beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:46 		I don't think we can assume they are valid unless he comes in here and confirms them. I don't he does that without changing his keepers which he doesn't have much time to do.
219judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Tue, Aug 19, 2014, 23:58 		Do you have the offer?

Here is mine from him: time stamp 10:47

Carolina Panthers proposed a trade with Arizona Cardinals:
Carolina Panthers will give
Year 2014 Draft Pick 3.21
To Arizona Cardinals for
Greene, Shonn TEN RB

I can't accept because CAR also get AZ 10:24 and he needs to drop a player...
220judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 00:00 		It's 12:00 and I am off to bed...

I guess trades are now moot points...No idea where CAR/Steve went...
221beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 00:01 		Yes, I couldn't accept it just like you.
222judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 00:11 		beastie -- we will have to see what the league members allow us to do since it is past the deadline and Car did not drop the two keepers he needed to.

Now I am off to bed...
223Tree
      ID: 438482411
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 09:06 		so this trade came through this morning:

Seattle Seahawks gave up:
Year 2014 Draft Pick 11.01


Kansas City Chiefs gave up:
Year 2014 Draft Pick 1.22

soooo...is there more to it than a first round swap for an 11th round swap?
224Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 12:41 		I think it was part of a trade from last season...
225Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:05 		No idea...
226Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:15 		Vote pumpkin or players here...
227Doug
      ID: 878410
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:23 		I can't believe we're even voting on this... LOL... but I appreciate the concern for integrity, Judy. Of course the trades should be allowed. They didn't go through because of a technicality... any of CAR's non-keepers could have been dropped to make them work.

As a general principle, commissioners should just use reasonable discretion in these matters... as long as nobody is gaining an unfair competitive advantage or abusing the system, try not to let technicalities get in the way of a fun game. The principle of fairness is what matters, and following the absolute letter of the law totally gets in the way of that. This isn't Fantasy Court System, it's Fantasy Football. :)
228Toral
      Leader
      ID: 2111201313
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:23 		Re your question via e-mail, if the trade was proposed and attempted to be accepted before the deadline, and keepers not formally changed because of uncertainty whether the trade would go through, I would recommend that the trades go through and the consequent keeper changes allowed.
229Ref
      ID: 55156513
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:30 		228: Again Toral and I are in 100% agreement.

Generally, once the deadline hits, no trades or changes of keeps are allowed. But here is an instance where trades were offered AND ACCEPTED in a timely manner. Can't we as a commish drop an obvious non keeper for someone so these could have gone through? I didn't get an alert or anything.

Anyhow, as Toral stated, I think these should be allowed as well, however, now that the Keeper deadline has passed only this deal keepers should be allowed to be added/subtracted and no other changes.

227: I agree with Doug as well. We don't need votes on everything that comes up. I didn't understand your email before and assumed it was to GO with me copied because I didn't know what you were talking about.
230Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:34 		Since it involved me, I was trying to be neutral...
231mjd
      Dude
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 13:45 		I agree, most of us are still on the learning curve of MFL. I ran into the same problem trying to complete a trade, though we should all learn from this.

232Promizeone
      ID: 347171713
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 14:03 		#225

No idea???? You sent me the email telling me to do it.

#223 It was a pick part of a trade from last year Tree...There is more next year to it.

Reference post #124 and #60 in this thread.

================================================

I found this trade on the 2013 thread -- is it the only one:

KC:
Miles Austin
Vikings D
Cole Beasley
2014 1st Round
2015 1st Round (If KC finishes in Top 5 in 2013 or 2014; becomes 2nd round in 2015 if KC finishes 6-24 in 2013 and 2014)

Seahawks:
Stevie Johnson
Greenbay D
Tamba Hali
2014 11th Round
2015 4th Round (If KC finishes in Top 5 in 2013 or 2014; becomes 3rd 2015 if KC finishes 6-24 in 2013 and 2014)

Way to much going on it seems...
233Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 14:09 		Sorry -- been swamped with tons of commish stuff.

I got an email that the swap happened so I think it is fine.
234beastiemiked
      ID: 587172017
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 18:18 		I accepted the trade but it failed because Carolina needs a TE.
235Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 20:14 		What???
236deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 22:03 		agree with #227-229. let the trade occur.
237Valkyrie
      ID: 12758217
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 23:13 		Guys it won't let me put a CRAPPY te IN-says I don't have waiver rights- this is getting bloody ridiculous- SEML (from here on SomeOne Else's Football League) is rapidly becoming my least favorite forum. I have already changed my keepers on here and on SEFL twice . I am thinking this is all too much work and we should just forget the trade.
238beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 23:33 		What happened to the trade I offered that was Boldin and my 10.09 for Carolina's 2.21 and Burleson(a throwaway). That would've made the trade acceptable.

Honestly, if the commish can't push through trades like this then MFL is terrible. Just give me the commish codes and I'll figure out how to make the trade valid.
239beastiemiked
      ID: 5911312710
      Wed, Aug 20, 2014, 23:37 		Hey, it went through. Thanks!
242deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 00:08 		so bmd - you don't get a keeper and Valkyre get A. Boldin as a keeper. Also Judy gets keeper S. Green for a draft pick?

Heck it balances and I haven't done that in my spreadsheet for a while.. lol Not accounting for draft picks in the sheet also.
243Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 08:07 		No valk gets Greene and Boldin and beastie and I got better picks.

I did push trade though -- finally -- we needed to reduce valk/car roster so the guys could be added. I did not have much time yesterday to figure out how to do but in the end it was so super easy that I feel really stupid.

I will finalize your keepers early this afternoon and then open the draft. (I am about to go out until 1:00 or so).
244Doug
      ID: 878410
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 12:20 		Looks like I could drop a non-keeper (or all of them) and get the draft started, but will hold off until Judy finalizes keepers (or am told otherwise).
245Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 16726219
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 13:11 		Not going to try to follow all of that. Can someone state how the keepers are different than what is in the keeper thread? I just need the players so I can try to update my spreadsheet.
246judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 14:31 		Understand fully Slack -- it was messy, but it is "all better" now.

Waiver wire order has been entered. It is the reverse of the round two draft order (no trades though). So AZ is first in something!!

If someone wants to check it and post, thanks.
247judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 14:52 		I have entered the new point totals and yardage totals into MFL based upon the figures in [121] above.. I also removed the Total Points Allowed option and changed it to Offensive Points Against which is defined in MFL as

This is the points scored against a team on Offense, which only includes points scored via Passing and Rushing TDs as well as Field Goals. It also includes any conversion points scored after the TDs (extra point or a 2 Pt Conversion).

If anyone would like to check for me that would be great...

All we have left to do is draft and set waiver/FCFS FA times.
248Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 16726219
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 15:18 		I ended up looking it up. Martellus Bennett and Earl Thomas are no longer keepers. Replaced with Boldin and Greene.
249Nerfherders
      ID: 1511182416
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 15:47 		Interesting to see the def scoring changes applied to last season's stats.

Comparing to last year's scoring, the top 10 defenses drop from 194 avg score to 179. The bottom 10 raise from 74 to 94. The middle 12 teams also raise slightly, from 140 to 145. At the extremes, the top 5 drop from 229 to 202, and the bottom 5 raise from 59 to 83.

Also, negative scores decreased from 91 (18%) to 38 (7%). The points lost from those negative scores decrease from -303 to -73.
250Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 15:57 		Thanks for the analysis nerf. We shall see how it plays out in games!!
251deepsnapper
      Leader
      ID: 017103420
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 16:59 		Judy - can we start a new thread to discuss the 2014-5 draft?

Judy - Who is collecting dues? Name & address is appreciated.

Nice pick Doug, Sammy will out when the QB situation smooothes out.

Dumbass me is foggy after 2 hyperbaric treatments. IQ may be negative after 25-30 sessions. I will be unavailable from 10am CDST - 3PM CDST. Treatments are an hour away, last 2 hours in the chamber and 1 hr. home. Little longer every Wednesday as I see the surgeon. ugh, 6 weeks at least Mon-Fri. Worth it if they save my toes! MRSA is a pain in the butt, but at least it's tratable by oral means and not I/V like a few years ago. Peace
252judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 18:05 		DEEP -- ask and ye shall receive

DRAFT DISCUSSION THREAD HERE:

http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/read.pl?board=footst&thread=1109&lastpost=1408658675

Post any expected delays and any comments here!
253judy
      Dude
      ID: 7771722
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 18:06 		DUES info is coming later -- I need a break from admin stuff.

But do not worry, thanks to Valkyrie/CAR we have it all figured out!
254Slizz
      ID: 306452010
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 18:08 		Judy, you really need to learn how to post links on rg :)

G24 Draft Discussion
255Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 18:55 		Slizz I can't make it work on the MAC. If you know how, shoot me an email!!
256Judy
      ID: 54203110
      Thu, Aug 21, 2014, 18:59 		Slizz link didn't work!!!
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