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0 Subject: 2016 G24 in season thead

Posted by: Judy
- [35493114] Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 20:56

For general discussions, comments (G24, NFL) and trade (Etc) offers.

Also for "woe is me" comments. 😬
1GO
      ID: 29613422
      Wed, Aug 31, 2016, 22:48
Is there a league constitution or rules summary or anything like that for football (like baseball?) if so, hoping we could put that in the opening post for reference.
2Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 07:27
T_D is working on updating the recently rediscovered (by Nerf) constitution from CBS Sportsline so that it can be put into MFL. Judy indicated that there was no immediate hurry so that it needn't appear till sometime during the season. The CBS constitution was sent to the league by e-mail by Judy on August 18 (as an attachment).
3Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 09:32
Thoughts on penalties for using suspended or IR player in lineup?
4Kyle
      Leader
      ID: 052753312
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 09:35
Here's my thoughts for the IR/Suspended rule
First time: Warning from commish
Second time: 0 score for the week
Third time: Draft pick loss
Forth time: Expulsion from league
5Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 09:45
First time (at least this year): Warning from commish.
Second time: Next year's first round draft pick lowered by 8 picks.
Third time: Next year's first round draft pick lowered by 48 picks; (manager would pick twice in third round).
Fourth time: Next year's first round draft pick lost completely, replaced with last pick of draft.
Fifth time: Not asked back next year.
--------------------------------------------
No penalty should apply where the player is suspended or placed on IR on Thursday or after and remains in the lineup that week.
6Frick
      ID: 352441412
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 09:47
I think the the 2nd time violation may need a tweak. And we also need to clarify what constitutes a violation. Is it per week, or is it per roster spot. Theoretically a team could have it happen twice in one week, so is that 1 or 2 violations?

The 2nd time may not be a punishment for a team. In the past, the teams that were the most likely to violate this were teams that were either tanking on purpose or were rebuilding and didn't want to drop a potential keeper. Taking a 0, just moves them up the draft order following year. Maybe change the violation to 5(?) draft spot drop in the first round.

This is a lot for the commish, and put some judgement on their part, but I see a difference between someone putting an IR/Suspended player in their line-up who was in that category for awhile, versus setting a line-up and their status changing at the "last" moment.
7Nerfherders
      ID: 2211442615
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 11:26
I dont like the idea of getting a zero for the week. The whole idea behind it is to keep things competitive and try not to give other teams wins. Giving a zero goes directly against that.

How about on second offense, no lottery, and if the team doesnt qualify for the lottery, moved to the end of the round?
8Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:02
I agree with Frick... there's a difference depending on how close to game time the change of status happens. Basically, if the manager has already submitted their lineup for that week, it's reasonable that they assumed they were done and didn't necessarily need to check their lineup again before Sunday. I know myself I'm going to be very busy with a newborn sometime in the next couple weeks and it's entirely possible that I'll be setting a lineup at 11pm on Wednesday or something like that and not check in again until the next week.

In my case, I didn't realize Josh Brown was suspended a week when I drafted him. It's no big deal, it's an 11th round pick... I could drop him and pick up a different K. Obviously having won last year I think I have a strong squad and am not going to intentionally lose any games... but absent our "no suspended players rule", it's a bit of a tossup to me if I'd want to drop him and get a different K vs. keep him and take the 0 for that 1 week (even though I am trying to win... not tanking or rebuilding, etc.)

So I'm using this as a test case for discussion, even though I'm expecting to go ahead and make the switch at K for week 1 anyway, since that seems to be the spirit of the rule (even though I disagree with it)... and who wants a domestic abuser on their roster anyway? (Although probably more of us have one than are aware of it, sadly...)

But I do think it's important we know what the penalties are, and I do think we should acknowledge that (a) my situation is different than a team that is rebuilding, so we can't assume that's the reason someone would intentionally leave a suspended player active, and (b) the timing DEFINITELY matters in terms of assessing punishment, IMO. You can't treat both cases equally (a well-known long-term suspension vs. something that only comes up a day or two before that week's game), and I think we need to allow the commish to exercise some judgment in that regard.

As for the penalties, I agree with the progressive structure, and agree that downgrading picks is a pretty strong incentive.

Just thinking out loud:
- Violation 1: Warning
- Violation 2: First pick drops 3 spots from what it would have been (that alone should disincentivize a rebuilding team from tanking)
- Violation 3: First pick drops 6 additional spots (9 total)
- Violation 4: Look for a new manager next year

I'd also say that any obvious/intentional "tanking" to improve one's draft status next year skips the warning and immediately drops 3 spots... and anything that looks like it was a situation where the manager didn't realize (it happened post-lineup-setting, etc.) gets an extra warning.

The only caveat I have with this whole "first pick drops x spots" penalty system is in the event a team has already traded away their 1st round pick, then I guess it's their 2nd round pick that drops a few slots? In that case the penalties may not be severe enough to disincentivize... so maybe double the penalties if they don't have a 1st round pick?

Trying to be constructive and make this rule work!
9Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:04
Oh, and I think the violation is "per week" not "per player"... it's a matter of getting your lineup set properly. Again, if it looks intentional, I say we skip the warning. Commish decides those cases... or can put it to a vote if Judy is squeamish about that.
10Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 12:32
Regarding what Doug said about the commissioner exercising judgment, I will repeat what I said in the last thread about establishing a disciplinary principle. To my mind that is logically prior even to establishing levels of punishment, because othersie you're going to be in a position where you're downgrading the drsft choice of somebody who's been in hospital, or beside his spouse, parent or child in hospital, all week:

Disciplinary Principles:

1. The penalties provided at all graduated stages shall be maximum and not mandatory, with the maximum penalty being reserved for infractions that are seemingly intentional or are repeated, lesser penalties for infractions that are seemingly negligent, and still lesser penalties, or no penalty, for infractions that are purely accidental or could have occurred despite the manager's reasonable care.

Example: No penalty shall ordinarily be assessed where a player is suspended or placed on IR within two (quaere three? four?) days of that player's next game but is nevertheless left in the lineup.

Rationale: Managers may sometimes be in a position where they set part or all of a lineup two (or three?) days in advance and miss sudden suspensions or placements on IR.
-----------------------------------------------
If you don't long rules then you could simply say:

The commissioner shall have the discretion to reduce or not impose a penalty where a manager provides a reasonable justification or excuse.
11Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 14:16
Commish decides those cases... or can put it to a vote if Judy is squeamish about that.

I see this as a potential problem if Judy doesn't want to discipline. Maybe she doesn't WANT to have discretion, becuz the exercise of discretion opens one to criticism. It would be foolish to have people vote on punishments. Danger of cronyism, team rivalries, etc. Not to mention the difficulty of getting people to vote. If this is something the commissioner is uncomfortable with, she should appoint or, if necessary, hold an election for an official disciplinarian, under whatever title. (If we want to be bureaucratic, a commission of three.) That is what real leagues do to deflect criticism from the commissioner.

Maybe the disciplinarian could upload his explanations of the decisions to YouTube, as Brendan Shanahan did in the NHL! BTW, anyone notice, that the dirtiest players are the hardest-ass disciplinarians when put in that position-- viz., Frank Robinson in baseball?
12Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 14:55
I have no problems with discipline, I taught middle school kids. I just need guidelines and one of my adamant guidelines is that family comes first for everything.

I also don't mind having a "discipline committee" of three to discuss and decide.

Also you would need to let me know of an offense as I don't usually check all lineups each week.

I like Torals idea of maximum.

And I like the progressives.

Warning (wait for reason)
Maybe second time warning or drop X spots in round 1
(have problem there if he has no round 1...)
Third time no lottery for you!
Fourth time take away highest pick in draft -- as of end of season; also not tradable.
Fifth time adios...

IR/SUSPENDED status as of midnight Wednesday after waivers clear. Anyone put on after that is allowed for that week with no penalty.

Violations would be posted here by commish each week to keep a running tab (of hopefully nothing...)
13Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 15:19
Thanx, Judy. Knowing where the commish stands shapes the discussion.

You shouldn't have to check all lineups. You should only need to act when informed of violations. (Question: is there a bounty for informers? JOKE)

Your suggested penalties look good -- you only have to decide have to decide what "X" equals.

Also, "no lottery" is part of a good penalty -- the common suggestion to deal with "tanking" in the past has been no lottery and you draft 16th in the 1st round, say on the 3rd infraction -- but what to do with playoff teams? That's why I personally switched from the "no lottery" idea to everybody dropping in the draft order. (I should credit Tree with the idea.) You could say "non-playoff teams draft 16th in the first round" -- but what would the equivalent penalty be for playoff teams?

If you don't *want* a "discipline committee", we don't need one. I suspect most folks would rather just have you decide.

Midnight Wednesday a good idea.
14Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 16:11
As I mentioned before, No lottery for lottery teams, pick 24 for non-lottery teams. This would include those non-playoff teams who are also not in the lottery. I also don't think we need to have 3rd or 4th transgressions. If someone does it again after a warning, that's it.

I also think there needs to be a time limit to the rule - say, suspended before the waiver deadline each week (Wed at 3pm?). People are actively looking at their rosters up until that point, but often not after.

Remember it's not just suspensions, it's IR too.
15mjd
      ID: 56311613
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 19:08
2 warnings is enough. After that, adios.
16TD
      Leader
      ID: 036331011
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 20:04
2 warnings per season with no penalties for warnings. 3rd infraction removal from league. A replacement manager or the commissioner would manage his team for the remainder of the season.

If the manager being removed from the league feels the infraction was accidental, he can state his case and have the league vote on his removal.
17PeteN.
      ID: 8550318
      Thu, Sep 01, 2016, 20:13
I agree with post 16.
18Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 15:03
So we are starting at violation #1 with a warning. One/ game.

We do need to figure out the rest. Some tough ideas...

SHEESH -- just DONT DO IT!!!

---------------

NFL IR or suspension listing as of midnight Wednesday seems fair -- we generally check the waiver stuff Wednesday, but maybe not again until the weekend. If a guy gets put on after that, try not to start him, but no warning that week.

Does that sound fair?
19Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 15:11

NFL IR or suspension listing as of midnight Wednesday seems fair -- we generally check the waiver stuff Wednesday, but maybe not again until the weekend. If a guy gets put on after that, try not to start him, but no warning that week.

Does that sound fair?


Yes.
20Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 15:46
RE 18 - Yes I like that.
21Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Fri, Sep 02, 2016, 22:22
I just reset the waiver order. If someone could check it and post here. It is also set to just roll all season...
22Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Sat, Sep 03, 2016, 07:25
The waiver order is correct. Just the basic draft order as in post 18 of the pre-season thread.
23Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Sep 07, 2016, 14:01
Trade announcement:

AZ gives Sanu to CLE

CLE gives Blount to AZ
24Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 11:44
Was an IR slot passed? I kind of need it right now, of so.
25Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Tue, Sep 20, 2016, 22:08
Nerf. Nope.
26Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 11:10
The vote was 15-5 in favor? That doesnt pass?
27Kyle
      ID: 052753312
      Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 11:18
Needs 2/3s to pass so it was 1 vote short.
28Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 11:22
What about the 4 people who didn't vote? I mean, the margin there seems to tell me the will of the league is that we have an IR slot. Right now it sits at 75% of voters.
29Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 12:38
this is one of the things that infuriates me about another league i'm in.

the number of votes required to "pass" something depends on the number of people in he league, not the number who vote. (not to mention needing an overwhelming majority, not a simple majority, to pass.)

(he says, as he wonders if he voted on this particular issue)
30Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 12:49
Exactly. In the league I run which is a 10 team league, I require a majority, and when it gets to 6 for, it passes. If it's stuck at 4 or 5, I keep the poll open and tell the league members again and again to vote until we have all 10 votes, or until it gets to 6 yay or nay.
31Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Sep 21, 2016, 21:45
Nerf.

I tried and tried to get people to vote... I am as disappointed as you.
32Kyle
      ID: 052753312
      Thu, Sep 22, 2016, 12:17
Ok I don't know how this happened but I added Dion Lewis because I had an opening on my roster and then went to swap my defense. For some reason when I swapped defenses it also dropped Lewis. If possible, I'd like to put Lewis back on my roster, and I feel like it was obvious I wanted him. If not I could wait until he's unlocked to pick him back up.
33Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Fri, Sep 23, 2016, 15:14
Fixed.

If you have a time sensitive issue, email me as I don't check the thread every day. That said, I am mostly out of touch fora few days except for nightly check ins.

Thanks.
35Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Oct 19, 2016, 16:19
It's been quiet here...

My team has been struggling. Loosing Woodhead was a huge blow since I still have no WR. Stafford, Gurley, and AZ Defense are keeping me in the game as they have accounted for half of my total points so far. I have to get back into the 100's on a consistent basis. Maybe 16-10 gets it done this year.
36skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Thu, Oct 20, 2016, 12:21
Looking for a 1 week QB fill-in if anyone wants to trade a crappy one for a pick upgrade next year.
37Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Oct 26, 2016, 17:25
I'm at a distinct crossroads this week. At 7-7, I am on the brink of contention, and everything has to go right to make the playoffs, but I have 5 skill players on bye this week, including a few who have some potential upside in the coming weeks. I tried a waiver pick and I didnt get it, and the wire's been picked clean. Do I trade in the future for a few points this week, or hold fast? I'm thinking hold fast and get 'em next year.

BTW I'm not sure what NFL is thinking having these 6-team bye weeks. They are killer in fantasy. I am going to have the same dillema next week on my RIFC team.

39Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 23:08
Crap. Started a DB on a bye. No idea how that happened as I double checked it Sunday morning before I went out for he day. Maybe my fat finger hit the wrong box on the iPad.

Very sorry, especially after all the discussions. Could have affected one game.. crap.
40Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 23:36
Might win by .04 . Shoulda won by 2.
So very sorry for the mess. I swear I had it right.
41Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 23:54
If it make sense you feel better, I streamed sendejo who at the time was listed as healthy in MFL. Was inactive and I didn't check pre game. Lost by 4.
42Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Mon, Oct 31, 2016, 23:55
If it makes*
43Nerfherders
      ID: 347152518
      Tue, Nov 01, 2016, 14:06
I managed to win a game even with two bye starts. Still barely hanging in there.
44mjd
      ID: 509211014
      Wed, Nov 02, 2016, 18:59
No one would drop Phillip Rivers in this league.

MFL snafu.
45GO
      ID: 388562222
      Thu, Nov 03, 2016, 23:02
Leveon still available for a package with a good WR and RB.
46 PeteN.
      ID: 8550318
      Fri, Nov 04, 2016, 13:28
Does anyone have a starting QB they would be willing to trade for a 4th round pick next year? If so, let me know.
47Tree
      ID: 48192723
      Sat, Nov 05, 2016, 10:17
Did I miss something? Is there a reason I can't pick up a player right now?
48Nerfherders
      ID: 2211442615
      Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 21:01
I have San Diego's defense available for a draft pick.
49GO
      ID: 388562222
      Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 22:25
Got an extra LB IDP if someone has a hole.
50Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Nov 10, 2016, 10:19
put a few trade offers out there. looking for a bye week fill in at QB this week.
51 deepsnapper
      ID: 01091615
      Wed, Nov 16, 2016, 16:10
Philadelphia Eagles traded Kaepernick, Colin SFO QB to Denver Broncos for 2017 5th round draft pick. (and he's scored 20+ points wks 9-10 dammit)

Tree, please confirm. ;)
52Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Nov 17, 2016, 18:07
confirmed. he was a nice bye week fill in - would have gone 2 - 0 had it not been for Blount scoring 62 touchdowns last week.
53Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Sun, Nov 20, 2016, 14:04
Playoff Details from prior years:

Playoff Game Tiebreak Policy:
1st tiebreaker: Most TDs scored
2nd tie: Most TDs passing
3rd tie: Highest single scoring player
4th tie Next highest scoring player and so on

Playoff teams will be announced at the end of week #13, which is the end of the regular season. Playoff teams will be seeded accordingly:

#1 seed = division winner with best record
#2 seed = other division winner
#3 seed = wildcard team with best record
#4 seed = other wildcard team

Seeds #1/#4 and Seeds #2/#3 will play in week #14, with the winners advancing to meet for their respective conference championship in week #15. Each conference winner will advance to the SuperBowl to be held in week #16. Losers will also continue playing to vie for placement for cash prizes (if app.). i.e. If you lose in round one, the best you can do is 5th place.

Runner-Up playoffs: We run teams 9-16 (Wanna-be Bowl) and teams 17-24 (Toilet Bowl) in a single elimination version of our Super Bowl. All stats will count but only regular season records will be counted toward your draft order for the following year.

NOTE: we run a double elimination tournament for teams, so you are not out until you lose twice. Doesn't count for anything except woulda, coulda, shoulda...
54mjd
      ID: 509211014
      Sun, Nov 20, 2016, 15:39
Just for the record, I never made an official offer for Meredith.

I never even dropped a player and never intended to.

I was offered Meredith for a 1st rounder. My reply was further banter "Maybe a 5th or 6th. I really don't like him any better than who I already have. Plus Alshon will be back in week 14."

"I already have Sharpe and Gabriel as poss keepers and both would be equal to or ahead of Meredith."
55mjd
      ID: 509211014
      Sun, Nov 20, 2016, 16:34
Misunderstanding. Trade reversed.

Meredith back to Raiders

I keep my 2017 5th rd pick.

56 Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Tue, Nov 22, 2016, 09:44
looking for a consistent WR1.

willing to give a high draft pick and/or a player for the right WR.

reach out!
57Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Wed, Nov 23, 2016, 20:28
In the Andy Griffith Show trade (Floyd the barber/Howard the county clerk), Minnesota gives up its 2017 next to last round pick for New Orleans's 6th round pick.
58Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Mon, Nov 28, 2016, 23:00
Osweiler stinks.
59GO
      ID: 388562222
      Tue, Nov 29, 2016, 22:09
Is there a trade deadline?
60GO
      ID: 388562222
      Tue, Nov 29, 2016, 22:11
And if it hasn't happened... I'm still looking to add a flex player for a mid round pick swap.
61Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Tue, Nov 29, 2016, 22:24
It was last Friday.
62GO
      ID: 388562222
      Tue, Nov 29, 2016, 23:52
Seems weird to have a trade deadline before bye weeks have completed. Are byes later than normal?
63Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Wed, Nov 30, 2016, 00:00
Last year they ended on week 11 but I'm not sure about other years.
64Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Thu, Dec 01, 2016, 12:08
I'd just like to say that the NFL needs to get rid of week 13 byes. It's kind of ridiculous having to scramble for replacements the week before the playoffs. I feel really bad for those teams that have been relying on the likes of Mariota, Walker, and Murray this year.

I'd rather have them start byes in week 2 then to have this weirdness.
65Tree
      ID: 48192723
      Sun, Dec 04, 2016, 19:20
Although I've been opposed to some punitive rules regarding injuries and such, it's really hard to see playoff slots possibly decided because a team started a KICKER on bye and a guy who everyone knew was going to be out this week, while having a suspended player, another player everyone knew would be out, and a third on IR, all taking bench spots.
66Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 18:09
Speaking of rules, I would like to propose a rule change about rules changes: that it requires a 2/3rds majority of those who voted. We had at least one rule proposal this year that did not pass because we simply didn't have everyone vote, despite the fact that the overwhelming consensus was in favor of the rule.
67Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 11:10
Another year barely missing the playoffs. I needed one more win, as did about 4 other teams. At least I am not the next best this time.
68Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 11:21
As per Judy's request, I believe these are the correct playoff matchups:

Chiefs - Broncos
Texans - Jets
Bears - Packers
Panthers - Giants

Also-Rans:

Chargers - Cowboys
Saints - Colts
Seahawks - Bills
49ers - Lions

Toilet Bowl:

Ravens - Jaguars
Eagles - Vikings
Browns - Bengals
Cardinals - Raiders

Please correct if I am wrong. I am assuming the division winners are the top two seeds in each conference.
69Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 11:33
i believe this is my third year in the league, and i had a three-year plan to make the playoffs.

taking on the juggernaut WG and the Dak/Zeke express in the first round was not part of the plan, however.
71skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 11:58
Nerf, Agree with the matchups you listed. Yes, Div Winners get the top 2 seeds per post 53. The draft order is now set for the bottom 16 teams, and the top 8 will be determined based on final standings.

One Key note to remember at this point is that only the top 8 teams can add players from this point forward. Someone with Commish access needs to lock the bottom 16 teams from adding players before tomorrow's 12p ET waiver run. Cleveland just dropped a couple players most likely anticipating pickups tomorrow, so those IMO should be added back to the roster.

For the top 8 teams, any player dropped or picked up during the playoffs cannot be keepers next year.
72Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 13:01
Learned a hard lesson (not like my team was going far anyways) to check your lineups pregame for injury status. Not checking Sendejo's tatus before MNF cost me the #2 AFC seed.

Good luck GO...
73Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 13:07
Also, we need to update the constitution for next year. Had I checked my lineup I would've won the AFC East by way of points tiebreaker.

My record would've been 14-12, tied with GO.

GO division record 7-3
My division record 5-5

GO conference record 10-6
My conference record 7-9*

*reflects win vs SD

Both instances he would've won the tiebreak...but because it's points scored, I would've been awarded the seed. It should be division, conference, then points if all else equal.
74Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:11
Agree with Slizz, for a divisional league this is the preferred way to handle standings tiebreakers.
75Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:18
The tiebreaker has been and is currently points though. This came up last year when I was tie-broken (is that a word?) out of the playoffs because I had the fewest points.
76Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:24
Despite the most points in the conference I miss the playoffs. No complaints here, only pathetic whining.

I deserve it,because despite my firm belief in the ancien regime rule, requiring every team to field a lineup (i.e., try to win ), empowered by the now clarified rules on the subject, I went with a DE on bye figuring I could beat Oakland anyway. Oakland! Doug the apostle of laissez-faire rules! Doug whom I had to remind not to leave Sammy Watkins in the lineup becuz leaving IR players in is now illegal and I didn't want to see along debate start about what the appropriate penalty should be.

Doug beat me by 1.52 points. I have to think whatever DE I picked up would have outdone that. I then would have won the division.

But I deserve it for not fielding a full lineup at the expense of dropping one of my loser-hopeful-lottery skill players. That's what makes this league so very good and fun!
77Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:24
IMO in a H-T-H league, H-t-H should be the first tiebreaker.
78Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:40
Re 77:

I think it should be:

Divison
Conference
H2H
Then points...especially in our format with divisons.

It would've been bitter for GO had I got the seed bc I scored more points despite going 0-2 vs him and having the inferior divisional and conference record...
79skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:41
I posted about this last year, but didn't end up formally proposing it. Reposted below:

I do think that we could look at adding other tiebreaker options ahead of points scored like head to head, division record and conference record. I'd like to see points scored be further down the list. Scoring a lot of points is good and will win you more games than not, but it still comes down to wins and losses and how you manage the bye weeks and injuries. If you win all your games by 30+ points, but lose several by just a few points, its still about your W/L record just like in the NFL.

My suggestion would be:
1st Tie-breaker: Head to Head record
2nd Tie-breaker: Division record
3rd Tie-breaker: Conference record
4th Tie-breaker: Total points scored
80Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:45
Yeah, I can see that too... personally I tend to prefer to rewarding season-long performance and not the whims of scheduling (including awarding final wildcard spot based on points rather than record)... but if we're going to award playoff spots based on records exclusively, then yeah, "H2H -> Div -> Conf -> Points" probably makes the most sense.
81Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:46
P.S. I appreciate the new title, Toral. :)
82Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 16:50

But by far the most important change in the way we do rules is the appointment of someone to a position I call, for a lack of a better word, "Parliamentarian". ("Rule Process Enforcer" is another possibility. Or just "Rules Heavy".) Judy clearly did not want to do this role re rules this year, and had to be bullied into it. (Alas.) The "Parliamentarian" would do -- pre-season only --basically what the sainted Ref did back in the day:

1) invite rules suggestions on this MB starting at an early date, remembering suggestions made at the end of the previous year, i.e., right now;

2) invite managers to give their thots on these rules suggestions, either on the MB or just to him personally (which really pissed me off, but anyway) with the purpose of determining in advance which proposals HAD A CHANCE to pass and so might be put to a vote;

3) make sure the proposals to be put forth for a vote were put in logical order, and properly worded;

4) conduct a vote, right here on this message board, where questions could be answered;

5) badger people to vote, with gradually increasing force;

6) count the vote and report the results.

-----------------------------------------------

The Parliamentarian could be overruled, or fired, by the Commissioner at any time.

I have been thinking about this since last August, and nominate myself for this position. At the end of the rules change process before this year I was extremely frustrated with it, a frustration which as far as I can see was widely shared, if not universal.

But if people don't want me, there are other people in this league, less controversial perhaps, who might do the job well. Perhaps one of them might volunteer.

G24 is now a very good league. Let's Make G24 Great Again!
83Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 17:03

I agree with 79 skineej.

He would be a good Parliamentarian too. I believe he has researched in depth previous years' message boards and so is knowledgeable about the history of rules change proposals in the past.

I would put his name in nomination for this position, should it be created, as well.
84skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 17:17
I do think there was a little more parity this season, and just looking at records, one conclusion to be drawn is that perhaps the new rules about not starting injured or suspended players may have had the intended effect. Of course, it's only one year of data under the new rules, so who knows if it will hold true for years to come.

2014: 5 teams with less than 10 wins, 6 teams with 17 or more wins
2015: 6 teams with less than 10 wins, 5 teams with 17 or more wins
2016: 2 teams with less than 10 wins, 3 teams with 17 or more wins

85skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 17:20
Dang I was busy posting and missed your posts Toral. Ha, I'm happy to have you do it and can help as needed :)

I agree the role is needed, and having 1 or 2 people helping enforce rules and help move votes along was what we missed most when Ref stepped down.
86Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 17:33
Either manager would be fine. I do agree we need someone to be the 'rules person'. I would volunteer as well, to help out, whatever I can do.

to 85 - Yes, besides the Bears and Vikings, all other teams in the NFC were separated by only 4 games.
87Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Tue, Dec 06, 2016, 22:00
I locked all but the top 8 teams from adding players. Will try to get to actual playoff set up inairport tomorrow or by midnight latest on Wednesday.
88skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 12:50
The Cleveland transaction will need to be reversed. Assuming it was put in before the teams were locked yesterday and that is why it went through. As mentioned in post 71, I believe the players Cleveland dropped yesterday should be added back as the week 13 rosters for all non-playoff teams are frozen until the playoffs are completed.
89Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 20:39
I think it should mirror the NFL tiebreaker:

-Apply division tie breaker to eliminate all but the highest ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. ...

-Head-to-head

-Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.

Remember head to head counts towards the divisional record...

A season shouldn't be decided by a 2 game matchup often dependent on byes as the first tiebreaker
90Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 22:31
79

I have seventh highest points FOR average (104.6)
I also have the highest points AGAINST average (111.2).
No wonder I finished with a 10-16 record.

Jags had the highest PA (111.5) and was 2-24!
91Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 22:32
BTW - Osweiler stinks.
Will be looking for a QB...
92Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Dec 07, 2016, 23:02
Oops second highest PA
93skinneej
      ID: 42692211
      Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 08:55
Judy, looks like 2 of the matchups were reversed. Panthers should be playing the Giants this week and the Bears playing the Packers. All the others look correct.

94Slizz
      ID: 419523014
      Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 11:55
Judy - you bring out the best in your opponents!
95Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Fri, Dec 09, 2016, 13:12
good to see Derek Carr bust out his worst performance since WEEK ONE OF LAST SEASON for our playoffs. it ranks as one of the worst five of his career.
96GO
      ID: 17312218
      Sun, Dec 11, 2016, 16:19
Levon Bell still available. Get a jump on the off-season deals!
97Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Mon, Dec 12, 2016, 17:25
that would be the definitive example of selling high. lol
98Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 15:30
Dude, I wouldn't sell Leveon either, but just because Ryan would doesn't necessarily mean that he's high.
99GO
      ID: 388562222
      Thu, Dec 15, 2016, 21:51
He's so quick to judge.
100Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Tue, Dec 20, 2016, 14:09
Here we go, last weekend:

Super bowl championship:
KC v GB

3/4: Giants v Jets

5/6: Denver v Carolina

7/8: Chicago v Houston

Wanna be Winner/ overall 9/10:
Dallas v Indianapolis

11/12: SF v Seattle

13/14: SD v NOLA

14/16: Detroit v Buffalo

Toilet bowl winner / overall 17/18:
Baltimore v Cincinnati

19/20: Arizona v Philadelphia

21/22: Oakland v Cleveland

23/24: Jacksonville v Minnesota

Who will have the highest score for the weekend? $5 credit on next year's dues to the winner!!!

Also TD did an overhaul of the rules for us so before baseball starts we need to look them over and see NOW if we want to make some changes. I will get back to you right after the new year and hopefully we can wrap that up in 2-3 weeks of paying attention so we don't have the mess -- with polls especially -- that we had last summer!

Once the games are over I will post the $$$ winnings. Also will someone post the draft order for 2017 please.
101Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Thu, Dec 22, 2016, 07:19
3 QB on roster (osweiler, foles and keenum) and none will play!
102Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 11:38
and to think, i once debated keeping Osweiler over Derek Carr.
103Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 14:18
Maybe Foles will go to SF and Kelly will resurrect his career. Actually both their careers...

Surely couldn't be any worse...

Yikes. And I won the super bowl with Foles --what two years ago?

Osweiler will be out of the league in 3 years tops...kinda like Ponder...
104Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Fri, Dec 23, 2016, 14:19
Aske TD to send me the G24 rules he clarified this fall. Then we will look at changes NOW, not next summer.
105PeteN.
      ID: 8550318
      Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 11:15
Congrats, WG! He now joins an exclusive triple crown winner club (winning g20 baseball, g20 hoops and g24). Impressive!
106Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 12:08
nice job WG - just like my Cowboys are going to do, you rode two rookies to the Championship. congrats!

you're going to be very good, for a very long time. but don't forget i'm in the same division, i took 5th with my young team, and i am gunning for you.

see ya next season!
107skinneej
      ID: 14911313
      Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 12:41
Congrats WG! Thought I still had a chance until Kelce's big game Sat night and knew I was done for then. No way to slow down the Dak/Zeke train, has to be the best first 2 picks in any draft. I'm glad you won it going away. If it had been close, I would have been kicking myself for not checking the inactive for the late games on sat. I mean how does Doug Martin not play when he's not on the injury report all week?
108Species
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 14:23
Worst to first.....pretty damned impressive. Congrats WG!
109Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Tue, Dec 27, 2016, 17:45
Congrats!

Will post details later with better internet!!!
110Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Dec 28, 2016, 15:55
Congrats to WG for an impressive 20-6 season as well as the playoff winner and high total point scorer!

He also earned $5 off his 2017 dues by having the highest score on the final weekend: 144.23.

I think it is pretty safe to say that Dak and Zeke did the trick for him. What a pair to carry forth!!!
These were his comments on drafting Dac at 2.02:
Was hoping Perkins, Boyd, or Fuller would fall but alas they all go right before me. Maybe reach on Dak but hot preseason and Romo handcuff. (Comments Added Thu Aug 25 9:14:58 a.m. ET 2016)
Sheesh.

Champion:
Kansas City
Runner up:
Green Bay
3: New York Jets
4: NY Giants
5: Denver
6: Carolina
7: Houston
8: Chicago
-----wanna be ----
9: Indianapolis
10: Dallas
11: SF
12: Seattle
13: San Diego
14: NOLA
15: Buffalo
16: Detroit
---- toilet bowl ---
17: Cincinnati
18: Baltimore
19: Philadelphia
20: Arizona
21: Oakland
22: Cleveland
23: Jacksonville
24: Minneapolis

Note this IS NOT THE DRAFT ORDER LIST!!!
111Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Wed, Dec 28, 2016, 16:00

Prize monies 2017

Champion:
$100. Kansas City (plus $10 for best record and $5 for last day high point)
Runner up:
$60. Green Bay
3: $42.50. NYJ
4: $42.50. NYG
5: $30. Denver
6: $22.50. Carolina
7: $17.50. Houston
8: $15.00. Chicago


112Species
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Dec 28, 2016, 17:39
107: You got your answer today......Doug Martin failed a drug test and was suspended for 4 games.....it appears he was held back Sunday for this reason as well.

Ouch.
113 deepsnapper
      ID: 2108112
      Mon, Jan 02, 2017, 20:26
Is there going to a separate thread for rule revisions and proposals? I dislike waiting until next summer to start proposing rule changes.

I also give congrats to WG for an impressive 20-6 season as well as the playoff winner and high total point scorer!

Enjoy as repeats have become rare in G24 2.0


ds
114Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Tue, Jan 03, 2017, 17:50
113 yes shortly
115Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 16:01
Please someone double-check this draft order (not including trades or lottery):
1: Jacksonville
2: Minnesota
3: Cincinnati
4: Oakland
5: Arizona
6: Cleveland
7: Philadelphia
8: Baltimore
9: Dallas
10: Indianapolis
11: Buffalo
12: Seattle
13: San Francisco
14: Detroit
15: New Orleans
16: San Diego
17: Chicago
18: Houston
19: Carolina
20: Denver
21: NY Giants
22: NY Jets
23: Green Bay
24: Kansas City

I made this by looking at reg season standings (for bottom 16)... then compared to playoff seedings as a double-check.

Everything lines up except on the double-check except for Seattle/SF/Detroit. I have Seattle in the 12 slot based on all 3 teams having 14-12 records and not making the playoffs... however Seattle had the fewest points of these teams. Why then was Seattle seeded ahead of SF and Detroit in the Wanna Be Bowl? Is that a seeding error? We use a different methodology for the seedings? Or did I screw up somewhere?
116Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 17:19
Were you looking at the current standings? They are including ALL points scored through the season, including week 17. You have to click on Standings, then week 13, which shows Detroit being last in points scored of those 3.

I moved from last to first in points in the remaining 4 weeks, despite losing every matchup in the wannabe bowl.
117Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Wed, Jan 04, 2017, 17:21
It should be:

12. Lions
13. 9ers
14. Seahawks
118Tree
      ID: 77532019
      Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 08:49
should we start a new "off season" thread for these discussions?
119Doug
      ID: 326332712
      Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 16:31
Ahh... interesting, I saw that all teams had 26 game records, so assumed the standings were as of week 13... odd that they continued to update total points to include playoffs, but didn't update W-L... but then I guess I should know better than to expect anything that makes sense would ever come from the MFL site. :)
120WG
      ID: 35044520
      Thu, Jan 05, 2017, 22:08
Thanks everyone. Definitely a very hard league to win with such great managers and tough competition. Because of the size of the field and depth required, studs can really make the difference. I just happened to be fortunate that things broke right in this my 3rd year in the league. Was lucky to inherit a pretty good team initially, as I had strong keepers in Romo, Mathews, Jordy, and Graham. Was lucky to land the first pick in the draft and grab Elliott, who was a no brainer. And was lucky Romo got hurt and Dak started playing well when he did so I could draft him round 2 as a handcuff. That aside, not sure I did much different than what any manager in my position would do. Jordy, Elliott, and Dak played like studs all year and was I fortunate that their big games, along with the strong play of guys like Kelce and Mathews, was enough to get me through the playoffs as well.

Two quick notes:
- GO and I discussed a Leveon Bell for the 1.01 (Elliott) swap before the season started, and I strongly considered it. Not entirely sure how it would have played out but I believe Bell and Zeke each had about a 20 pts/g average.
- I strongly considered Blaine Gabbert with the 2nd round pick, because he was tabbed the starter at the time. Had to weigh the benefits of potentially having 2 starters v guaranteeing having 1. Pretty sure I know how that one would have played out. Tree told me he would have taken Dak in the 2nd also.

Looking forward to another great season next year.
121Nerfherders
      ID: 33543714
      Fri, Jan 06, 2017, 13:11
I was also offered Bell for Todd Gurley right before the draft started. There were a couple other players involved in the trade, but just trading Gurley for Bell would've won me the division at 17-10 and a trip to the finals. The only reason I balked was Bell's 3 game suspension. The bright side to not making the trade is that I understand it's not all Gurley's fault he was bad this year. The LA Rams O-line was just awful. I expect him to rebound next year with a new coaching staff.
122Judy
      ID: 35493114
      Fri, Jan 06, 2017, 20:51
Please someone double-check this draft order (not including trades or lottery):
1: Jacksonville
2: Minnesota
3: Cincinnati
4: Oakland
5: Arizona
6: Cleveland
7: Philadelphia
8: Baltimore
9: Dallas
10: Indianapolis
11: Buffalo
12: Detroit
13: San Francisco
14: Seattle
15: New Orleans
16: San Diego
17: Chicago
18: Houston
19: Carolina
20: Denver
21: NY Giants
22: NY Jets
23: Green Bay
24: Kansas City

I think this is good to go for 2017. Thanks.
123WG
      ID: 35338278
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 19:31
Got my trophy and thought I'd post pics of it and my others. Thanks Judy for the great commissioning and thanks all for the great fun and competition! Hoping Dak and Zeke can get me another one of these someday!




124Toral
      ID: 535571316
      Fri, Jan 27, 2017, 19:54

Congrats, WG! When I won G20 baseball for the one and only time, I don't remember being offered choices like that!

Altho probably I was. I chose a Glove prize on winning G20. It is my Treasure.

Now that you've proven your mastery in any and all competitions beyond the possibility of any doubt, hopefully, you will take up your responsibility of being active in the management and rules decisions etc. of the leagues you play in.

And I hope that the rumoured-of WG-Slizz G? hockey league comes into being this fall.

Toral

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