Here is an Excel spreadsheet with the stats for all of the positions we used from last season. I added a column of fantasy points scored based on our scoring system:
To access that file, you need to right click on it and then save it to your computer.
I didnt include the OL and ST positions.
The league website is down and has been that way for a while. I dont know if the rosters are saved somewhere else, but, worst case, I think the final rosters were posted in one of the previous threads (the playoff scores).
Does this (league website down) mean we are using different league-hosting software this year?
Any news on finding a 12th manager? I dont think it will be very tough to get one if we advertise on these boards, but I remember someone had a friend who was interested.
We should probably discuss and decide on rules/scoring changes at some point.
3
dgrooves
ID: 90203117 Sat, Apr 26, 2003, 16:24
For rules/scoring changes, these are taken from our last thread (posted by Nerf and myself):
Fumbles vs. Fumbles Lost – I would like to see us only deduct points from a player if he loses a fumble. I don’t really have much of an argument for this, but if his team still has the ball, why should he lose 3 points?
2 Point Conversions – These should be included in our scoring.
Blocked Kicks and Punts - I would also like to add blocked kicks/punts to the ST. Arguments that there arent enough of them to matter? Certainly there's more blocks than ST touchdowns. And it is certainly a sign of great special teams to have a blocked kick. As much as scoring a touchdown.
Roster Submission – I think we should make a rule that if a lineup is not submitted by the deadline for that week, the team’s lineup from the last week should be used. Failure to submit a roster may have affected the playoff seedings and who got to play in which bowls because The Italian Eagles got a win off of a forfeit in week 7.
4
dgrooves
ID: 90203117 Sat, Apr 26, 2003, 16:27
And here's Nerf's ideas for ST and OL scoring changes:
Here's my post about scoring changes:
I would like to start a discussion about scoring and what we would like to show with the scoring. I'm specifically talking about special teams and offensive line. Now, it is unusual to have these 'players' in a league, and the scoring system is ok, but I think it could better reflect the skill of the teams in question.
Special Teams:
What I am finding with special teams, is that the excellence of the special teams is being overshadowed by the APPEARANCE of the special teams. Basically, a bad defense = good special teams under this format, because they get alot of kickoffs, and the majority of points are from kickoff yards. I think a better approach would be to concentrate more on the average yards per return. So, we could use the same scoring format for yards, but subtract/add returns as a modifier to getting yards merely from just being really bad at stopping the other team from scoring.
Here are two examples. This is from the Pittsburgh - Cincinatti game. Bad defense vs. good special teams.
Cinc: 7-126, 1 i20. Pitt: 2-97, 1 TD Under the current system this nets 8 points. But the Bungles recieved 6 kickoffs while sending off only 1, which was returned 99 yards for a TD.
Conversely, the Steelers also net 8 points from this game, even though they got only 2 chances to return kicks. Without the touchdown, it would be only 2.
Under the scoring system I propose, the number of returns would be subtracted from return yards, and added to yards allowed. This puts the scores much more in line with the actual performance of the special teams themselves, and not so much on the offense or defense giving them opportunities.
Similarly, I think that O-line points should be scored more on yards per run than just running yards. Though I do not think the scoring is as 'broken' here as it is in special teams. The system I propose uses 3 yards per run as the zero line:
(yards gained/3) - runs, - sacks. (take out TD's)
Big time running teams are going to get alot of points in this system, and bring them more in line with the top scorers of other positions. Using the same game as an example, let's look at the Bungles vs. the Steelers running games:
I havent tested this for season's worth of games, but I want to know what ya'll think of these scoring systems, and perhaps implement them for next year.
I like the ideas behind those two systems but Id like to see them applied to last year's stats to see how well the systems work.
5
mike
ID: 374152718 Tue, May 27, 2003, 19:16
I'm around. I'll be reading this stuff, just thought I'd say hi
6
the art of monk
ID: 570411417 Fri, Jun 06, 2003, 18:52
I like the suggested changes. Can someone post the draft order? I am sure if I could find it if needs be but I'll admit I am lazy. Also wouldn't mind trading one of my 4 Rb before the draft, I am looking for an above avg. def of player or maybe a draft pick.
7
the art of monk
ID: 570411417 Mon, Jun 09, 2003, 16:12
I found the draft order and I am jonesing for football to start, maybe I wouldn't be so excited for football if my baseball teams were doing better. Looking to trade Barlow for a draft.
8
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Mon, Jun 09, 2003, 19:49
I went through the ST and OL stats from last year, calculating the fantasy points scored under the current scoring system and the new systems that Nerf has proposed. I am going to post two charts, one for each position. Each chart has two tables but both those tables contain the same information. The difference is the way each is sorted; the first is sorted by the current (old) scoring system and the second is sorted by the new scoring system. I can post the raw stats if someone wants to see them.
9
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Mon, Jun 09, 2003, 19:52
Sorted by FP scored under old system
Sorted by FP scored under new system
Rank
Team
FP Old
FP New
Rank
Team
FP Old
FP New
Change in Ranking
1
Detroit
311
307
1
Detroit
311
307
0
2
New Orleans
296
295
2
New Orleans
296
295
0
3
Houston
282
262
3
Houston
282
262
0
4
San Diego
263
242
5
NY Jets
244
250
1
5
NY Jets
244
250
4
San Diego
263
242
-1
6
Chicago
243
229
6
Chicago
243
229
0
7
New England
241
229
7
New England
241
229
0
8
Carolina
216
212
8
Carolina
216
212
0
9
St. Louis
202
185
10
Dallas
200
199
1
10
Dallas
200
199
13
Cleveland
187
197
3
11
Minnesota
191
174
9
St. Louis
202
185
-2
12
Washington
190
168
11
Minnesota
191
174
-1
13
Cleveland
187
197
14
Arizona
187
170
1
14
Arizona
187
170
12
Washington
190
168
-2
15
Cincinnati
173
157
16
Atlanta
165
166
1
16
Atlanta
165
166
18
Jacksonville
157
165
2
17
Seattle
157
148
21
Miami
143
157
4
18
Jacksonville
157
165
15
Cincinnati
173
157
-3
19
Baltimore
151
156
19
Baltimore
151
156
0
20
Indianapolis
148
148
23
Kansas City
134
153
3
21
Miami
143
157
17
Seattle
157
148
-4
22
Philadelphia
137
144
20
Indianapolis
148
148
-2
23
Kansas City
134
153
22
Philadelphia
137
144
-1
24
Pittsburgh
119
115
27
Tampa Bay
104
129
3
25
San Francisco
108
122
25
San Francisco
108
122
0
26
Denver
107
115
26
Denver
107
115
0
27
Tampa Bay
104
129
24
Pittsburgh
119
115
-3
28
Oakland
94
99
28
Oakland
94
99
0
29
Buffalo
85
90
30
NY Giants
82
95
1
30
NY Giants
82
95
29
Buffalo
85
90
-1
31
Green Bay
53
68
31
Green Bay
53
68
0
32
Tennessee
28
52
32
Tennessee
28
52
0
As you can see from the Special Teams charts, there is little difference in the scores and rankings that result from either system. Some of the better teams (in terms of win/loss records) move up in the rankings and some of the worse teams move down, but none of the changes are drastic. Also worth noting is that both systems produce the same total points scored by all the Special Team players. Becuase there seems to be little difference in the stats produced by the two systems, I dont really prefer one over the other.
As for blocked kicks, Ive got those stats as well. Most of the teams had as many or more blocked kicks (although the most was 5) as special teams touchdowns. How does adding 3 points per blocked kick sound?
10
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Mon, Jun 09, 2003, 19:53
Sorted by FP scored under old system
Sorted by FP scored under new system
Rank
Team
FP Old
FP New
Rank
Team
FP Old
FP New
Change in Ranking
1
Miami
267
279
3
Minnesota
247
314
2
2
Kansas City
265
305
2
Kansas City
265
305
0
3
Minnesota
247
314
1
Miami
267
279
-2
4
Atlanta
242
230
8
Denver
223
252
4
5
San Francisco
241
237
5
San Francisco
241
237
0
6
Philadelphia
228
215
4
Atlanta
242
230
-2
7
San Diego
226
222
7
San Diego
226
222
0
8
Denver
223
252
6
Philadelphia
228
215
-2
9
Pittsburgh
219
161
12
Jacksonville
204
199
3
10
Tennessee
212
119
11
Green Bay
207
166
1
11
Green Bay
207
166
9
Pittsburgh
219
161
-2
12
Jacksonville
204
199
19
Arizona
169
153
7
13
NY Giants
197
115
15
Washington
185
150
2
14
Oakland
187
137
14
Oakland
187
137
0
15
Washington
185
150
20
Baltimore
167
129
5
16
New Orleans
182
126
16
New Orleans
182
126
0
17
Seattle
177
117
10
Tennessee
212
119
-7
18
Indianapolis
172
63
17
Seattle
177
117
-1
19
Arizona
169
153
13
NY Giants
197
115
-6
20
Baltimore
167
129
25
Detroit
156
114
5
21
NY Jets
167
107
22
Cincinnati
166
114
1
22
Cincinnati
166
114
28
Dallas
142
108
6
23
Cleveland
164
97
21
NY Jets
167
107
-2
24
New England
157
77
23
Cleveland
164
97
-1
25
Detroit
156
114
26
Buffalo
147
90
1
26
Buffalo
147
90
30
St. Louis
130
79
4
27
Tampa Bay
144
64
24
New England
157
77
-3
28
Dallas
142
108
27
Tampa Bay
144
64
-1
29
Carolina
141
33
18
Indianapolis
172
63
-11
30
St. Louis
130
79
29
Carolina
141
33
-1
31
Chicago
120
22
31
Chicago
120
22
0
32
Houston
76
-51
32
Houston
76
-51
0
The Offensive Line chart shows a lot more change than the Special Teams chart. The changes in the rankings isnt neccessarily a bad thing, but there was also 1381 point difference in total points scored by all the Offensive Line players. I think this is a big problem becauce OL was already one of the lowest scoring positions. Id like to see a scoring system for OL that will allow the one player to post the highest score (among all the positions) for one week. I dont see this happening with either the system we have now or the system Nerf has proposed.
art, do you think you could either post your email address or send me an email? Im interested in trading with you.
12
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Tue, Jun 10, 2003, 17:49
Heres the draft order for the first 2 rounds (the order will snake for the remainder of the draft):
1. Ike44 (Toilet Bowl Winner) 2. Commish (Toiler Bowl runner-up) 3. Sandwhich Town Statics (10th seed) 4. Junkyard Dogs (9th seed) 5. Del Boca Vista Puppet Masters (.500 winner) 6. Nerfherders (.500 runner-up) 7. Long Beach Lightning (8th seed) 8. Art of Monk (7th seed) 9. beebop (4th seed) 10. Italian Eagles (3rd seed) 11. Furious Midget Klingon Horde (2nd seed) 12. Birds of Prey (1st seed)
13
dwfffan
ID: 1155066 Tue, Jun 10, 2003, 17:59
Any idea when we have to designate our keepers?
14
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Tue, Jun 10, 2003, 19:16
Here is the only copy of the league rules I can find (because the league's website is no longer up).
To answer your question, the rules say "a list of keepers must be sent to the commish at least 6 weeks before the first game of the season each year".
15
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jun 11, 2003, 18:04
BTW, 6 weeks before the first game of the season (Thursday, September 4th) would be Thursday, July 24th. I assume our draft would start that day or very soon afterwards.
16
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Fri, Jun 13, 2003, 13:24
Rules state draft will begin 4 weeks before the start of the season, so that means Aug. 7. I am sure we can all be flexible. I think that is a little early. Doug or Nerf, I know it is a little early to make a trade but if you are interested in Barlow or Lewis let me know.
17
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 70412023 Fri, Jun 20, 2003, 18:56
Wow. Thanks for taking over dgrooves! I'm about to head out, but I'll take a look at all of this stuff within the next few days.
Glad to see almost everyone around...
18
mike
ID: 535172314 Mon, Jun 23, 2003, 15:37
just a couple of things...
shouldn't we not have any trades until we know everyone is here?
accountability is my concern (see below)
also I had a couple of points I threw in at the end of the playoffs thread but since no one responded I'll bring them up again...
-trade notification. I didn't even know that some trades had happened. my own fault for not checking the transaction pages I know but was wondering about them being emailed out like the waiver claims. my big concern here is just the accountability question if someone has concerns about a trade and wants to veto/protest it. if it's a question of time, I'll volunteer to send the trades out. -tight ends-did the point for every 5 yards seem a bit excessive? for the lower level tight ends they brought them up to par but for the studs they just seemed to make them bigger then the superstars at other positions.
anyways really itching to get things going. be talking to you all
19
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 535572315 Wed, Jun 25, 2003, 10:17
mike, I dont believe there were that many trades throughout the league last year. I'm pretty sure I emailed them out too. As far as TE stats, I'll have to analyze how everything turned out at the end of the year. We'll look into it.
20
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jun 25, 2003, 11:45
I dont think the Tight End scoring was excessive. In fact, it was one of the lowest scoring positions our league. There was only one TE in the top 50 players, Shannon Sharpe, (ranked by FP/G) and he ranked 34th. Also, the argument could be made that Sharpe's FP/G were inflated because he missed 4 games and he had a monster Week 7.
Now 34th doesnt sound low, but TE production drops off quickly. The 5th best TE in terms of FP/G ranked 176th overall.
Before we get worried that the top few TEs score a lot more than their counterparts...Here's a quick comparison of the top player (in terms of FP/G) to the last starter at the same position. The last starter is the 12th QB or the 24th RB or the 36 WR or 12th TE.
Difference in FP/G between top player and last starter: QB -> 6.92 RB -> 17.55 WR -> 12.01 TE -> 7.4
I dont think there is a problem with the way we score TEs. Yes, it is somewhat uncommon, but I dont see the evidence for the top TEs being bumped up beyond the stars at other positions.
21
mike
ID: 245452514 Wed, Jun 25, 2003, 15:56
that's cool on the te
I made the point last january and thought I had seen a trend. guess I probably got burned a couple of times by a huge te game :)
on a separate note, I want to draft now, hehe
22
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Fri, Jun 27, 2003, 15:30
Ive been bored lately so Ive done a couple of things:
I made a temporary website for the league. It isnt much to look at, but I think the info on it is valuable.
Ive got a list of the open issues we have right now (some from the league rules page):
Scoring changes - see post 3 and 4 in this thread
How to handle unfair trades
Reduction of the waiting period for a player on waiver from 48 hours to 36 hours
Silent Devil's team / Finding another manager
Roster requirements and IR - While putting the webiste together, I noticed that 2 team are exceeding the roster limits at one position apiece. There are also violations with the injured reserve slots. I can remember one instance during the season where a player should have been removed from the IR but wasnt. Also, there are currently 4 players, on various teams, that are listed on the IR yet have "participated in so much as a single play" in Week 17. According to our rules, these players should be removed from IR. Im not suggesting the offending teams should be punished, but I do think we should make an effort to enforce our rules.
23
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Wed, Jul 02, 2003, 13:30
I believe we also need to find out who is around for next year. Finding a new owner should be pretty easy, but tracking everyone else might be a different story.
IIRC, our keeper setup is such that we only keep something like 4 guys on offense? I don't think Barlow or Lewis would make it into my list... but it's possible. I'll have to look at it... kinda busy with other stuff right now... maybe over the weekend we'll be in touch.
27
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Thu, Jul 03, 2003, 12:19
Sorry Art, I dont have any email address. If people post them here, I'll add them.
28
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Sat, Jul 05, 2003, 12:56
Ok, we are now less than three weeks away from the date when we must designate our keepers. We should find a new owner for Silent's team so the owner can have some time to adjust himself to the team and the league. We do have some unique rules :). I think I may just start a topic on the Football boards to see if anyone's interested because I dont want to wait too much longer.
Like Art said, we should also make an effort to find everyone. Going solely from the people who have posted here, this is who has checked in:
dgrooves mike Art of Monk dwfffan APerfect10 Doug
We have yet to hear from:
wiggs Ike44 beebop Irriducibili Lazio Nerfherders
I was able to find email addresses, so maybe Derek will want to send an email to the whole league.
Ok, I am going to get everything straightened away tonight. Emails will more than likely be sent out to the league sometime soon. Once I get everything in order, I will then post a message to try and find a manager to replace Silent Devil's team.
First, we need to decide if we want to renew with the site we used last year. I believe it would only cost me $35 or so if I wanted to renew, which isnt a bad deal at all.
I liked the site we used last year... except for the OL scoring part which I don't know if they ever got right. Are they going to fix it this year? Regardless, I think it's the best deal we've got going.
Is anyone interested in throwing in an extra $5 for a prize pool or something like that? It's not a big deal to me, but I always think it's nice to receive a tangible reward. It doesn't need to be an all-or-nothing prize for the league champ either. Say we had $60 prize pool (12 teams, $5 each)... we could give $5 to each playoff team (4 of them), plus $10 to runner up, $25 champion, and the last $5 to the winner of the "mid-pack" bowl, or else to the winner of the 3rd vs. 4th place game.
But if people don't want to do it, that's cool too. Just an idea.
36
dwfffan
ID: 19627617 Wed, Jul 09, 2003, 16:13
I would be interested in throwing in a few dollars.
Alright, we need to take a vote. The site we used last year is charging $49 to renew our subscription ($94) for a new one. $49/12 teams comes out to $4 per person. Plus if we are interested in a $5 or $6 prize pool that would bring a fee of $9/10 per person.
Not everyone has to be in the prize pool, but I'm hoping to atleast get 2/3 of the league in.
If you are in for only the league fee, send $4 to me.
If you are in for the league fee + option prize fee, send $10 to me.
Please paypal payments to Derek_35@hotmail.com. If you do not have a paypal account, I also have a neteller account or you can send me cash, checks, money orders, etc. Please email me if you need my address for shipping. Thanks!
I'm in for 10... do you want us to wait until we know for sure if we have 2/3 of the league before sending the extra $6, or should we just send it now?
So far we have 4 in for the prize pool. I think atleast 4 of the remaining 8 managers will enter.
Its your choice, if you want to wait, you can or you can send the full $10 to me. If for some unforeseeable reason, you send $10 and we dont get our minimum of 8 managers, I would definately refund everyone...
Draft is supposed to be 4 weeks before season, August 7. I think maybe we could agree to postpone until Monday, August 11? That way we'd get an additional preseason game under our belts before starting the draft. I do think we should get it rolling by then though.
Also, FWIW, I will be gone next week (until July 22nd or so) and also will be gone from Aug. 31 through Sept. 15 (possibly an extra day on either end for travel).
45
beebop
ID: 1961044 Fri, Jul 11, 2003, 01:14
Okay, im around......ill read through this thread a bit later to get up to date.
46
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Fri, Jul 11, 2003, 01:31
I will also be gone 7/19-7/26. I'm going to Cancun :) Anyways...I'm going to...
Appoint dgrooves vice commish since he has taken such an active roll in getting the ball rolling. We'll have to discuss some things. Plus its always a good idea to have 2 in charge, so you guys dont think Im cheating after I win my 2nd straight title ;)
48
wiggs Donor
ID: 10261612 Sat, Jul 12, 2003, 12:52
i am in for 10 bucks,
AP10 where are you going in cancun? i was just there for my honeymoon, it was awesome.
Staying at the Marriot Magna Casa resort. I think thats the name. I know its the Marriot though. Hoping it'll be fun, I'm looking forward to it!
50
beebop
ID: 1961044 Sat, Jul 12, 2003, 19:55
Have fun in canun. Did u get my FA bids in TPKL?
51
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Sun, Jul 13, 2003, 19:09
Can we please post when we need to have our keepers in? and can we start talking about when we are going to start the draft? I will out of town with not internet from 8-9 to 8-17. I know this could cause a problem, so I want to start dealing with it, if it is a big problem.
Well, if we waited until Monk returns on the 18th, that would give us about 2 weeks. With people spread across the US, Australia, and Italy (any other time zones?) I don't think anything more than a round a day is a reasonable expectation... so that would give us 14 rounds or so at the round per day rate.
The problem is, we have 23 rounds to complete. Therefore, we would need to do a live session to blow through several rounds over a few hours (10-15 mins. max per pick, faster if possible, etc.) in order to make up the difference. This would either need to happen right at the start (probably either Monday or Tuesday the 18th or 19th) since often times the early rounds are the ones you are best prepared for, or else on the weekend (Sat/Sun the 23rd/24th) since that is when people's schedules tend to be the most flexible.
Alternatives to the 18th include: Starting on or around Thursday, August 7th (approx. 4 weeks before the season, as per the rules) Starting on or around Monday, August 11th (a few days late to allow that weekend's preseason games to complete) Starting on or around Monday, August 4th (a few days early to allow the first few rounds to complete before Monk has to leave)
Just some thoughts... I leave tomorrow for a week and am open to whatever date in August you all decide upon, just trying to help facilitate the discussion.
Also note that keepers are due 7/24 according to league rules...
Keeper's Are Due by Thursday, July 24th midnight EST.
Either post your keepers in this thread, try to make your keepers bold. Or you can email me...
I'm available anytime after 7/26 to start the draft.
54
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Sun, Jul 13, 2003, 22:27
We also should decide on what rules we want to change soon. I think it would be best to get them taken care of before the draft. Derek, what types of stats are available for use with the ST and OL positions? These seem to be the only positions we want to alter, so Id like to know the different ways we can score them.
The other changes that have been proposed:
Adding 2 point conversions
Adding blocked kicks
Changing fumbles to fumbles lost
Roster submission - if one isnt submitted, the team's roster from the previous week is used
Waiver process - Id like to see it streamlined. I dont see a reason to have to have commish approval for drops. Because of our roster limits, I would often have to check in many times to see if my drop was approved before I could attempt to add a player.
A process to approve rules changes - How many votes should be needed to pass a new rule or remove an old one? A majority or 3/4 or ...?
New owner - 10 days until we have to declare keepers and still no owner
I sent an email to APerfect10 on Sat. I am still interested in joining your league. You all don't need to worry about me being some A-hole who wants to join to screw with your league. I am a very serious fantasy football player and am looking to join a long term competive league.
Thanks.
56
beebop
ID: 1961044 Mon, Jul 14, 2003, 04:45
At the moment, for a live draft, Saturdays and Thursdays (US time) is easy for me. Im not at school anymore, so when im at work, i have no access to internet. But im happy using ques.
I reserve the right to update these, but in case I don't get back from vacation in time, keepers are: 4 years - Vick, Moss 3 years - Faulk, Taylor, Bulluck 2 years - Keyshawn, Lyght, Peterson
Glad to have you aboard. Its also nice to see you have been checking out previous threads, reading up. I'm followed your link. Lol, I almost forgot about that.
Anyways, I think we'll have a very competitive season this year and I'm sure you will only solidify the quality of this league.
Best of luck!
61
Bags
ID: 416333 Wed, Jul 16, 2003, 02:09
How do I get the ID access to change some of my team profiles?
62
beebop
ID: 1961044 Wed, Jul 16, 2003, 04:22
Hey derek.....i know you posted about my FA claim in TPKL, i made some more about 2 days ago, just wondering if you got them or not?? If not, ill send em again. Thanx.
Bags, once keepers are listed, I will be able to setup the league page further. At that time, I will send out passwords to each manager and at that time, you can change it to whatever you want.
64
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jul 16, 2003, 11:47
Are we going to vote on the open issues before we declare our keepers? We should certainly do it before we start the draft.
65
Bags
ID: 416333 Wed, Jul 16, 2003, 12:11
beebop did you make a trade with the team I took over? I was looking at the draft order and you are listed in my spot in the 2nd round.
66
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jul 16, 2003, 12:20
Bags, its just one of the quirks of the league. The order of the first two rounds (really the 9th and 10th because of the keepers) are determined by regular season and playoff performance.
67
Bags
ID: 416333 Thu, Jul 17, 2003, 01:33
I was just wondering because in post #12 it says what the draft for the first two round will be. I found the draft order on the league homepage and beebop has the 2-2 pick. Also the league rules say that the first two rounds of the draft will be determined by the "Toilet Bowl" the “.500 Bowl” and worst to first record.
Was there a trade between beebop and the guy who had my team? Or was the guy who had my team before being penalized a draft pick for something?
I can handle it if is like you say “just one of the quirks of the league”. I just need a little clarification on why I don’t have a pick in the second round. I am not trying to be an jerk or anything. I’m just a year behind you all on your rules and am trying to figure them out.
Thank you for any help you can give me.
68
beebop
ID: 1961044 Thu, Jul 17, 2003, 06:21
Im not sure. I did make a trade, but i cant remember if there were any trade picks involved.
Bags, that was a typo. You have pick 2-2. I havent set any of the rounds following 1 & 2 on the site yet, so I wouldnt even bother looking at them...
70
Bags
ID: 416333 Thu, Jul 17, 2003, 11:42
Thanks AP10. The funny thing is after rounds 1&2 I thought the draft looked good.
71
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Sun, Jul 20, 2003, 02:06
I think we can do more than a rd. a day if teams leave ques. Especially toward the end of the draft. I think the first 4rds. will be the slowest.
So Bags where are from? You need to give us a little info on yourself.
72
Bags
ID: 416333 Sun, Jul 20, 2003, 14:11
Alright Monk you ask for it you got it.
My name is Neil Bagley I live in Bedford, TX (one of the many suburbs between Dallas and Fort Worth). I spent 8yrs 9mos 23days in the U.S. Navy as a Hospital Corpsman. I got out last August,I am still in the Naval Reserves and am going to school to get my degree in Nursing. I love all sports that are Dallas, expecially the Cowboys.
I am very happy about joining this league, thank you all again for letting me join.
Good luck this season.
One more thing, Culpepper and Moulds are on the trade block for RB help.
73
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Mon, Jul 21, 2003, 00:01
Bags I think I can help, shoot me an email. mboyack@sa.utah.edu I have been shopping Lewis.
74
wiggs Donor
ID: 55635225 Tue, Jul 22, 2003, 18:52
bags, would you consider moulds for fred taylor?
75
Bags
ID: 416333 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 01:33
wiggs, I would do a moulds for taylor. Would you want to do the trade before the keeper deadline or after?
76
wiggs Donor
ID: 55635225 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 06:35
it doesnt really matter, i would like to keep moulds if possible, but that is your call bro.
BTW. Welcome to the league man. It is a good time with a good bunch of guys.
77
Bags
ID: 416333 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 12:06
As it stands right now both of them are 3yr keepers I will still keep Taylor as a 3yr. So how do we make it official?
78
wiggs Donor
ID: 55635225 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 17:48
Derek is away, i guess we need to post the trade here and have vice president Dgrooves make a ruling.
Trade i give fred Taylor Bags Gives Eric Moulds
79
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 18:02
Derek or I dont have to make a ruling. If someone thinks the trade is unfair, they can veto it. Personally, I think its a pretty even trade.
80
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 18:05
BTW, Art, if youre around, I would really appreciate it if you would reply to my email. Thanks.
i didn't receive any e-mail.....can you please send it to me to explain clearly the keepers' rules?
82
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Jul 23, 2003, 19:33
Keepers - A team may keep up to 8 players per year, with a maximum of 4 offensive and 4 defensive keepers. A list of keepers must be sent to the commish at least 6 weeks before the first game of the season each year. The first year, you can award 2 4-year contracts, 3 3-year contracts, and 3 2-year contracts to your players. You are free to "waive" a guy at any point in the future, you don't HAVE to keep him just because he's under contract. The contract is just the maximum of how long he can be kept. If he is traded his contract goes with him, if he is waived and picked up then it doesn't. A player that you assign a 2-year contract can be on your roster for 3 years total, since the first year isn't played under contract. Additionally, each year (except the first year) you have the option to allocate additional 4, 3, 2, and 1 year contracts (max. one of each) to players who you drafted or otherwise acquired during the season (no re-signings of players with expiring contracts), so you can have 4 "new" keepers each year, but then may only retain 4 of your existing players under contract in order to comply with the maximum of 8 per year.
Compensatory picks shall be awarded at the end of the following rounds:
Draft Dates & Times Like last year, we will have a slow draft here on the Rotoguru boards. As the season approaches, we really need to set a date to start the draft.
I like Doug's proposal of Monday, August 11th, which would allow us one more preseason game compared to starting the draft on the 8th. I'm available at any date/time.
Please let me know if Monday, August 11th at noon EST would be suitable for you.
Thanks!
84
Bags @ work
ID: 146381416 Fri, Jul 25, 2003, 20:18
Aug 11th would be great! I will be moving the first week of Aug and will be without a computer for about 5 days.
Yes, all trades are approved. I believe we have enough talented managers that trades shouldnt need approved. Unless if something is extremely lopsided and the league overwhelmingly disapproves...
87
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Sat, Jul 26, 2003, 00:58
I know it is hard to keep track of all posts but I posted awhile back that I will be out of town 8-9 to 8-17. I know this could cause some problems but I can be flexible. It also is looking like my trip will be cut short, I will be home by 8-15. I will have no web access and no cel service the 9th-12th, but might have atleast cel service after that, SO I would prefer to start the draft the 13- 15th.
88
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Sat, Jul 26, 2003, 01:32
Theres also a good chance I will be away from August 10th until around the 17th, so if its possible, I would like to push the draft back later than the 11th. Or, like Doug said in a previous post, start the draft earlier, suspend it, then start it again.
If we must start on the 11th I can be flexible (queues etc.), but Id prefer to be here for the whole draft.
i'm out from 2 to 9 and from 12 to 20 of aug, but i'll leave a list of an hundred queues to speed the draft up......
90
wiggs Donor
ID: 55635225 Sat, Jul 26, 2003, 06:40
it looks like we might need to start the draft soon and then suspend it as people go away. Maybe each manager that leaves will have to leave a queue of X number of players, otherwise i dont see us getting this draft in. just an idea.
91
dwfffan
ID: 386452012 Sat, Jul 26, 2003, 07:32
Are we going to start out with a slow draft? I am pretty much game for anytime, I do have a busy schedule coming up but I will work with it as best I can.
dwfffan, I believe I received your payment today. Thank you! ------------------------------------------------
We also need to discuss prize payouts. So far 5 have paid and I believe 10 or 11 are committed...we can atleast discuss percentages until I receive all of the payments.
On the availability issue, I will be moving the last week of August, and out of town from August 30th on with unknown web access... might have plenty, might have close to none. Because of my unknown web access status and when we're starting the draft and all that I hadn't made a decision on prize pool participation... as long as I can get most of the draft in as an active participant rather than relying on queues for rounds at a time, then I'm in.
We have 3 managers that are not available 8/11-8/17, so obviously we can not start on the 11th. We might have to push the draft back one week until August 18th. That would only allow us 2 weeks & 2 days to finish the draft before the season starts on September 4th. If we do push the draft back, everyone will have to be extremely tentative and time slots will be short. There is also a strong possibility that we would need to meet online via AIM and do some live drafting.
So, as of now, its looking like the draft will start on the 18th but like I said, we will have to push through the draft in a hurry!
97
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Sun, Jul 27, 2003, 16:28
I think the 18th makes the most sense as well. Let's make sure everybody is on board and maybe even that first night we schedule just an hour where everybody can be around.
98
Bags
ID: 416333 Sun, Jul 27, 2003, 17:45
The 18th is fine for me. Just to let you all know I work 3pm to 11pm. I can check in on the draft from at work, but not usually until after 7pm. (all times are CST)
99
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Sun, Jul 27, 2003, 18:58
Bags how often can you check at work? Could you keep up with the draft before 11 if everybody was around or would it be better to do after 11 pmcst?
can't we have a yahoo draft? last year i had one with all the defensive players too, and if we wanted to pick a ST or a OL we wrote it in the talking box picking a player nobody would have picked as for example an injured one or a crappy one. it took us 2 hours but we did it greatly!!!
101
wiggs Donor
ID: 55635225 Sun, Jul 27, 2003, 19:25
after 11 pm is to late for me, i work at 6am. Is there any way we can start the draft now as a slow draft? maybe like 12 hours between picks atleast to get it started?
102
Bags
ID: 416333 Sun, Jul 27, 2003, 19:56
I work in the OR. Until the cases are finished I will only be able to check in every couple of hours. The case load can change from night to night depending on how many emergency cases we get.
I like what wiggs posted, a slow live draft with 12-24 hr time limit could work. I used to do the slow live drafts in sandbox. There was usually one or two people who took the whole 24 hrs just to screw the draft up. With this league I don't think people would do that on purpose. We could also post here that we couldn't make our pick until whatever date or time.
I can be flexible with whatever is option we go with.
103
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Sun, Jul 27, 2003, 20:12
Im ok with starting now, but we need to hear from mike before we can do anything. Does anyone have another way to contact him?
i'm leaving in 3 days and will stay out until the 9th of aug. and than from 12th to 20th. so, a yahoo live draft is out of your minds? i think it would be the only solution that will allow to all of us to draft our teams, loosing less time.......opinions?
105
Art of Monk
ID: 13530917 Mon, Jul 28, 2003, 13:08
This looks like it is going to be crazy to get the draft started. Part of my trip is on hold and doesn't look I'll be gone so long. I will only be gone the 11th and be back pm on the 12th. I would rather not get together on a weekend to draft but that is what we might have to do. I still think we start the draft on the 18th and then set a date now that we can get together over a weekend.
At this point, I feel its best to just start the draft on August 18th. More than likely, we will need to arrange a live meeting between all managers at some point during the draft. I'm sure we can get this done in time for the season, I'll make sure we get it done. :)
LAZIO, if you will be out of town through the 20th, you will need to leave a queue that will last me for the first 2 days. Thanks!
ok, i'll post my queue on aug 10 or 11 when i'll be back in rome for 2 days......be sure i'll do it!!!
108
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Mon, Aug 04, 2003, 11:10
DGROOVES, I am looking at the scoring for Oline and spteams. You posted the point difference from 1-12 in the other position wondering if you could do the same for spteams and oline. also looking at the changes for both oline and spteams. What are we trying to do just increase their scoring potential or are we trying to make them equal scoring to a rb, qb, or wr? My opinion, I don't like to see negative pts or too many penalties for position player or what we have done. Def. of players could never receive negative pts. why should the spteams get negative pts? This just my opinion, I do like including negative aspects like rtrn yds allowed but this can reduced or we can give more pts for rtrn yds. I like using the avg but I don't know if that is possible AP10.
109
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Tue, Aug 05, 2003, 10:25
Art, Im not sure what you mean. In posts 9 and 10 in this thread, I did a quick analysis of the effects of the proposed changes to the scoring of ST and OL. Also, the latest version of the 2002 stats preadsheet has the stats and FP totals for both positions. BTW, both the posts (9 and 10) and the spreadsheet include all ST and OL players.
I agree with you on the negative points issue, but I dont think we will be able to use average return stats because Derek said that return yards, return TDs, and blocked kicks are the only categories available for ST scoring.
110
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Wed, Aug 06, 2003, 17:05
Thanks Dgrooves I was refering to your post 20. FP/G for each position. I think OLine it was around 5 and steams was around 9. My suggestion for steams current scoring 2 pts for every 10 return yds. and -2 for every 15 allowed return yds. What if just change the -2 to a -1. My suggestion for Oline change sacks from -1 to -.5 and change touchdowns from 1 to 3. or change sacks to -2 and have touchdowns be worth 6. just some thoughts.
111
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Sat, Aug 09, 2003, 18:46
FWIW, I am not going away this week, so if that means we can start the draft earlier, Im willing to do so.
112
Doug Sustainer
ID: 2730280 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 03:03
I think we were waiting until the 18th for Art of Monk
113
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 09:41
From post 105 by Art of Monk:
"I will only be gone the 11th and be back pm on the 12th."
114
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 10:59
Yep, I will only be gone a day. I am ready to start whenever. I did make suggestion for scoring changes a couple posts back. Take a look.
115
Doug Sustainer
ID: 2730280 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 12:01
Ah... I never noticed the update, just the original plan back in post 51. So unless there are any objections I guess we could start noon EST the 12th (Art's back that PM). Have we decided how many hours per pick? Between house hunting (I'm moving), work, and sleep I know I could often be unavailable for stretches of 6-8 hours at a time. In general I try to leave queues though.
Pesonally I'd prefer that we start with a "lenient" allotment of 12 hours per pick. Hopefully most people pick within an hour or two and we can move at least at a round-a-day pace. If it becomes clear that we're moving to slow, then we reduce the time allowed per pick and/or add a live session at some point.
116
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 16:44
I am good with whatever and I would like to get someone to look at my suggestions for oline and steams. I should be back about 8pmest. Maybe a little earlier. Our biggest thing is we need to put an email out to eveybody else and I know most of us have other drafts that are going on.
117
mike
ID: 57311016 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 17:32
I'm good to go whenever.
I like the 12 hours with queues. I thought the draft went well last year time wise.
118
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 535572315 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 19:49
Art, I received your payment.
The draft will be starting at noon EST on Monday, August 18th as stated in post 96. Yes, we're going to be short on time so we're going to have everyone alert to make picks ASAP!
119
Doug Sustainer
ID: 2730280 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 20:28
Ah, sorry AP10... didn't realize there were other managers with the same time issues as Art originally had.
120
IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 21:13
does anyone have a list with all the players still on the market after the keepers' choices?
121
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 535572315 Sun, Aug 10, 2003, 21:33
LAZIO, the link to download the Excel spreadsheet is on the other page but I'll copy it here for you....
IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621 Mon, Aug 11, 2003, 20:09
thanks, my queue will arrive in 1 hour. i'll be back on the 20th of august, hoping that a list of about 60 players will be enough.
123
Doug Sustainer
ID: 31649212 Mon, Aug 11, 2003, 20:22
Thanks for being proactive Lazio!
124
IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621 Mon, Aug 11, 2003, 20:26
who's the person who must receive my queues? can you please post his e-mail here? thanks, it's a pleasure to play with all of you and i'll fix the money problem as soon as possible, but be sure i'll do it.
125
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 535572315 Mon, Aug 11, 2003, 21:59
Your queue is probably safest with me, but you could essentially leave it with anyone.
Email me at Derek_35@hotmail.com
126
IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621 Mon, Aug 11, 2003, 22:41
did you receive my list? is everything ok?
127
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Tue, Aug 12, 2003, 18:48
Derek, how many people have sent you money for the prize pool? Im curious how the payouts will shape up.
128
Doug Sustainer
ID: 31649212 Tue, Aug 12, 2003, 19:27
I honestly can't remember if I sent mine in or not... Derek please send me an email confirming whether or not I still need to pay. Thanks.
129
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Tue, Aug 12, 2003, 22:45
For anybody that picks after me, I might be interested in moving back in the 1st rd in order to move up in some other rds. I wouldn't make a deal until it is my pick but want to have a deal worked out, so I don't hold up the draft. Once again no one has made mention of my suggestions for oline and steam.
130
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 13:27
Art, Im with you on wanting to bump up the scoring on OL. However, both the sets of changes you propose for OL (-.5 per sack, +3 per TD and -2 per sack, +6 per TD) would move the #1 OL from the 50th overall player to the 1st, by a wide margin. Even a -2/+3 split puts the #1 OL at 6th overall.
However, if we were to only count rushing TDs and use a -1/+4split (the decimals might make things messy), the top OLs would be on par with the top STs at around 15th overall. Id also like to remove the rushing yardage tiers from the OL scoring and make it a flat rate of 1 point per 10 yards. This is essentially what we have now, but a 200+ yard game is scored the same as a 175 yard game. Same with a 50 and 89 yard game.
So, here would be a new system:
1 point per 10 yards rushing 4 points per rushing TD scored -1 point per sack allowed
As for ST, I dont think we need to add to its scoring. Last year, there were 3 ST players in the top 30 overall. In comparison, the highest TE (even with the bonuses we give TEs) ranked 45th. Changing the -2 to a -1 would make the top 2 ST players #2 and #3 overall.
Id vote to change the OL scoring but leave the ST alone.
131
Doug Sustainer
ID: 31649212 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 14:17
I'll have an opinion on this but not the time to formulate it right now. =-) Please give me a day or two to chime in on this discussion, as it is important to me and I'd like to provide input. I do realize we need to resolve this prior to draft, which is rapidly approaching. I'm in the middle of a housing search which is sucking up the majority of my free time, which is why I'm unavailable at present. Should be resolved by the weekend, and I will try to make time for this tonight or tomorrow night. TIA...
132
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 15:18
Dgrooves, Thanks for running the numbers. I never did. I could live with the change but I would like to still and try and bump them up and have similar scoring for oline and rb. Biggest difference would be oline would not get any receiving yards.
Steams, yes a couple of teams were quite high but I still think their needs to be some type of change so that you can not receive negative pts. for you steams. Dgrooves can you run the numbers on steams if we change the return yds allowed from a -2 for 15yds to a -1 for 15 yds or -2 for 20 yds.
133
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 15:34
I already ran and posted the numbers for -1 for 15 yards allowed. -2 for 20 still puts the top STs in the top 5 overall.
If you dont want a ST to recieve negative scores, then propose a system that doesnt award negative points.
Also, I really would like to know why you want OL and RB to be equal. Personally, I see no reason for it.
134
Nerfherders
ID: 308512415 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 16:31
You cant make OL and RB equal. That would make OL the number 1 scorer in the game. Last year 9 teams had 2000 or more yards rushing. No single player had that many yards rushing. I consider the OL a support unit. They have a huge impact on running success, but still not more than the runners themselves.
I like dgrooves changes. Much simpler than the system I proposed last year.
I still have problems with ST. Mostly with the fact that ST scoring seems to be based more on oppurtunities, i.e. bad defense, than actual effectiveness. If a team allows 30 points every game they get 128 kickoff returns (8x16). If a team allows 17 points every game they only get 64 kickoff returns. One solution would be to bump up punt returns, but that is a problem because many systems don't recognize punt return yardage by itself.
135
Doug Sustainer
ID: 31649212 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 17:04
It doesn't really matter if an OL score 5 points of 5,000,000 points each week. What matters is the difference between a good and bad OL. If the best OL scores 10 in an average week, and the worst OL scores 0 in an average week... that makes OL more important than if the best OL scored 5,000,001 and the worst OL scored 4,999,999. In that second case, OL would be a non-factor, because it would contribute at most 2 points to determining the winner in a head-to-head matchup. I'm using an extreme example, but the point is comparing OL scoring to other positions is interesting but not very useful in terms of evaluating the scoring changes. What really matters is evaluating the change in "spread" between the best OL and worst OL (or worst "starting fantasy OL") on a weekly basis. Same is true for ST... especially given that you have 32 to choose from and only 12 teams... so everyone should be able to carry AT LEAST a top-20 OL and ST each week (as only some managers carry 2 at these positions).
136
Art of Monk
ID: 127392513 Wed, Aug 13, 2003, 22:13
My point was just have a similar scoring scale for oline and rb, I never said equal.
137
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Thu, Aug 14, 2003, 19:58
These tables may look cryptic, so here a quick explanation. For the OL table, "-.5 / +3" means -.5 points per sack allowed and +3 per TD scored. For the ST table, "-1 / 15" means -1 point per 15 return yards allowed.
Proposed OL changes
System
Diff.
Current
4.42
-.5 / +3
5.31
-2 / +6
7.66
-1 / +4
6.07
Note: the +4 in the last row only applies to rushing TDs.
Proposed ST changes
System
Diff.
Current
7.15
-1 / 15
7.22
-2 / 20
6.94
It looks like the ST changes have a very small effect, other than to move the top ST players higher on the overall list. For OL, all the systems offer an improvement. However, under each of the first two, virtually all the OLs outscore their respective RB. That just doesnt seem right to me.
138
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 10:12
I just realized I forgot to mention one thing.
"Diff." if the fantasy points per game difference between the top ST or OL and the 12th ST or OL (last starter).
139
Doug Sustainer
ID: 31649212 Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 15:23
dgrooves... what's the diff between the top RB and the 12th starter? Also the diff between the 13th RB and the 24th starter (since we start 2 RBs)? Thanks...
141
dgrooves
ID: 444581317 Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 17:28
Doug, I dont have either of those stats but you can calculate them yourself with the info in the Excel spreadsheet I posted on the temporary website.
142
Bags @ work
ID: 146381416 Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 18:27
I wanted to let you all know that I hope to have my internet running this weekend. If I am unable to get it going I will be able to make my first pick on Monday around 2:00pm CST.
143
Doug Sustainer
ID: 31649212 Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 18:50
Thanks dgrooves... I'll try to check it when I get home tonight.
144
Doug Sustainer
ID: 2730280 Sat, Aug 16, 2003, 03:39
OK, so I calculated PPG for a few positions to get the "diff" between the hypothetical best and worst at each position... and only included players that played at least half the season (8+ games) last year.
QB - 6.8
RBs (combined) - 14.5, or 7.3 average RB1 - 12,1 RB2 - 2.4
WRs (combined) - 12.2, or 4.1 average WR1 - 8.4 WR2 - 2.2 WR3 - 1.6
TE - 5.0
Personally, I could care less if an OL scores more or less than an RB... all I care about is the spread, as that's really all that matters when determining the winner of a head to head matchup.
If it really bothers you that OLs outscore RBs or whatever, then just subtract 5 or 10 points from every OL across the board by default. It will have no statistical impact on the game, but if it makes people happier I don't see the harm in it. This can be done via the rushing yardage tiers...
Again, it won't affect the game no matter which of these systems you use... they change the total points scored by OL, but since they do so equally for both teams it has no net effect on the outcome of the head-to-head matchup.
I like that we _have_ OL as a stat, but frankly I don't want OL to be quite as important as TE or WR or any other "main" offensive position. I don't want to get rid of it either, but personally I think it was set up properly in the first place, so I'd just leave it as-is.
145
Bags
ID: 217221719 Sun, Aug 17, 2003, 20:29
I have my internet hooked up. I will be ready for the draft.
Will the draft start at 12:00 EST? Will we do the draft through the league website or will we just draft on the guru boards?
146
Bags
ID: 217221719 Sun, Aug 17, 2003, 20:58
AP10 I just saw the email you sent and you answered all of my questions.
Just one more question though, is the draft going to go by the order set on the league web page?
147
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 535572315 Sun, Aug 17, 2003, 21:08
I will have the thread with the order posted shortly....
148
Doug Sustainer
ID: 2730280 Mon, Aug 18, 2003, 02:02
So since the draft is about to start, we need to have this clear... are there any ST/OL changes... or same as last year (all TDs, not just rushing, and same values for yardage, sacks, etc.)? If we are changing it, please give the new official scoring ASAP so we can draft accordingly.
149
APerfect10 Leader
ID: 535572315 Mon, Aug 18, 2003, 02:09