Posted by: youngroman
- [206491016] Sat, Aug 28, 2004, 18:54
the last one reached 250 posts, here are the previous threads: discussion #3discussion #2discussion #1
1
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Sat, Aug 28, 2004, 23:03
To YR...(RE:241 - Q2 from Discussion #3) -
It is common practice to move up the trade dealine, I believe. I'm all for that.
Also... what happens to manager's teams who don't make the playoffs. We don't all make it right? Is their some sort of rule that we can make so that managers can't liquidate their team, if they know that their not in contention for the playoffs? (Not that I would think it would happen; just wanted to address the "what if" senario.)
2
Slowhand @ work
ID: 40343218 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 00:07
I would like to see us try to keep up better in the rationales. I don't know if anyone else reads them but I enjoy them. I think Art of Monk is up with his 3.14 and 4.01,rationales.I may have gotten everyone fouled up when I posted mine out of order,although it was the order in which I picked.Thanks.
3
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 00:37
wiggs-you're up.
4
wiggs
ID: 2739159 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 00:41
next
5
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 02:52
Queue sent to IAC.
6
art of monk
ID: 59610240 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 10:15
I will check back in later today. I would send a que now, but I am still quite a few picks back and it looks like I will be picking monday.
11
Tree
ID: 87562618 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 19:05
guys - just got in from my weekend away, and i gotta grab a bite to eat and walk my dog. i should pick within the hour...thanks for the patience...
13
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 20:33
Hey commish..How about setting up a grid somewhere, that's a lot of names to scroll through to see if a guy's been taken.
14
Bandos
ID: 13762111 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 21:03
QB
RB
WR
TE
K
DEF
DL
LB
DB
1) Loki
Green Brunell
LT Kevin Jones
WardHallGivens muhammed
Fjones
Wilkins
BAL
DavisFields
2) Wiggs
Delhomme
Priest Bennett Jones
Chad J Jsmith Price Rwilliams
Franks
brooks thornton Draft
Winfield
3) dwfffan
Garcia Leftwich
Green DavisBell
Mason McCareins Robinson Qmorgan
Heap
Freeney
Sharper Arrington
4) Species
Hasselbeck Gannon
Portis Westbrook Jackson
Moulds Chambers Boldin Bennett
Shockey
PHI
Abraham
Edwards
5) Toral
Favre Mccown
Deuce Barber
Ssmith Robinson Wayne Gage
McMichael
MIA
Rice
Fletcher
6) Tree
McNair Harrington
Shaun A. Staley Anderson
Harrison bruce Booker
Winslow
GB
Brooking Barnett
7) YoungRoman
Mcnabb Plummer
Jamal Dunn williams
S Moss Rsmith GlennDavis
NE STL
Thomas
8) WiddleAvi
Johnson Maddox
Edge Martin Garner
Owens Burress Fitzgerald Galloway
Strahan
Urhlacher
Harrison
9) PanchoVilla
Fatpepper Carr
Taylor Jones McGahee Bettis
Rogers Toomer Jophnson
CAR
Bullock
Reed
10) Slowhand
Manning Bledsoe
Rudi George Duckett Minor
Djackson Lelie
Williams
Tenn
Sharper
11) Bandos
Vick
Wheatley Emmitt Foster
Moss Keyshawn Driver
Gonzo
Elam
TB
Taylor
Lewis
12) I_AM_CANADIAN
Pennington
Barlow Suggs Wgreen
HolthornColes
Crumpler
Vandy
DAL
Grant
Barrow
13) THK
Brooks
Henry Dillon brown
Stallworth Porter Branch Lloyd
DEN
ogunleye
Peterson
Staylor
14) ArtofMonk
BulgerBrady
Faulk Davis Griffin
Ajohnson Gardner Warrick Calico
Rucker
ForemanSpikes
15
Bandos
ID: 13762111 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 21:06
That is up to date thru Bennett.
16
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 21:33
Thanks, Bandos, especially for Fatpepper;)
17
Bandos
ID: 13762111 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 22:39
Oooops - I guess you got the unrated version :) with my little nicknames....
18
Slowhand @ work
ID: 40343218 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 23:29
Nice Bandos,and thanks...But u-h-h; e-r-r; um; I'm not taking this personal;"sniff- sniff" really I'm not (one tiny tear glistens in each eye) but how come everyone else has 12 or 13 guys and I only have 10 boo-hoo boo-hoo.....;-) Really, no worries but I think you're missing Javon Walker and Tennesse from my roster.
19
Slowhand @ work
ID: 40343218 Sun, Aug 29, 2004, 23:33
O-o-ps; looks like I'm missing Darren Sharper, not Ten.
20
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 02:06
Pancho - don't forget the ctrl-F feature.....it'll find whatever name you enter in. Very handy.
21
Bandos
ID: 13762111 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 09:45
I did have Walker missing, but scroll to see Sharper. Thnaks for pointing it out.
22
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 10:03
If this moves quickly today, I may need to leave a que. I won't be back until about 3 or 4PM MST.
23
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 15:20
how much time does thk have left on the clock
24
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 15:32
I think it would be for 6:35PM (EST)? Is that right YR?
25
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 16:34
IAC - you are right.
26
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 17:47
wow this has been slow since friday. who is around and going to be around at 6:35pmest. I need to leave at about 6:25.
Don't know if youngroman is around, but I am ass-u-me-ing that someone who times out can be skipped on their next scheduled pick too? I ass-ume they don't get another 8 hours.
Toral
29
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 17:56
just sent you a que toral.
30
Toral
ID: 22731114 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 17:57
Q received.
31
Tree
ID: 76471215 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 17:58
i agree toral.
32
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 18:02
that late in the draft I see no problem skipping THKs 14.02 pick if he is not around in time.
If the draft makes it back to me in the next hour I would be around, if not I can leave a queue.
33
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 18:49
THK is online... he will be making his two selections shortly, so I will hold off picking my player until he is done.
34
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 19:17
IAC - I think your pick should be 14.03, I just sent you my queue for 14.08 because I'm going to bed now and will be back at around 2 am.
to all: response from Rotoworld.com Customer Service regarding the question where the players land after the draft:
All the players will go to waivers. The first waiver run will be the first Wed after your league is placed in-season, so that sounds like it will be Sept 8 as long as you have drafted before then.
35
Bandos
ID: 13762111 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 19:41
I picked.
36
dwfffan
ID: 117413010 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 20:13
Is there a reason why we have slowed? I might become very busy this Sat for about a week. On the road and no computer.
37
Tree
ID: 87562618 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 20:49
i think we need to go to a 4 hour clock, or we need to find a night this week to wrap this up...
38
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 21:31
I am all for finding a night. 4 hour clock would kill me. At these stages you decide what to do based on others somewhat IMO....when I am at school I just can't do it.
THK
39
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 21:34
I would like to move up the speed a little, but I understand the concern from THK. What about if it was a minor upgrade of the clock? 6 Hour maybe? It would probably help a little.
40
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 21:48
Only have 6 rounds to go...but oh well.
THK
41
Slowhand @ work
ID: 40343218 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 21:51
Picked...
42
WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 22:01
I am all for getting a night and getting this done.
43
Slowhand @ work
ID: 40343218 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 22:01
I'm not sure we need to do anything with the clock..last week from Mon @ 8 AM to Fri @ midnite we did 8 1/2 rounds.We have basically 5 1/2 rounds left;even if it slows down a bit we should be done by the weekend, or very close.Not sure what the big rush is...we have plenty of time especially if it causes hardship for THK.
44
Tree
ID: 87562618 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 22:20
remember - there has to be enough time for the commish to input all the data...
45
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 22:27
Not to mention, I would like the time to shift gears. ie. start anylizing team matchups, and adjusting my roster accordingly.
The first week is always the worst for trying to find reliable information.
47
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Mon, Aug 30, 2004, 22:35
Oh, by the way Tree... your also up in the Rationales, if you don't mind.
48
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 01:57
Queue sent to IAC
49
youngroman
ID: 221118186 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 05:23
wiggs - you haven't signed up to Rotoworld yet. I sent you an invitation. In Hotmail I think this invite lands in your junk-folder.
To look at our current progress I see no reason to shorten the clock to 4 or 6 hours. until yesterday no pick timed out and no pick lasted more then 5 hours. a 4 hour limit would have reached only a few times. If we come back on track like last week and get 20 picks a day we should finish by friday or saturday. If we fall behind we could find a night (thursday or friday) and finish the draft then. Who of you would be available when?
I would finish entering and verifying all the rosters the morning after draft ended, so that all have enough time to check out things on the Rotoworld-site.
50
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 10:52
Sorry guys... didn't notice that Species send me his queue till now. I find trying to keep track of everyone's queue as well as my picks kinda hard, so I appologize if I'm not always on time.
51
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 11:07
Don't apologize IAC. If not for you, we'd be at around the 7th pick.
52
Hubble
ID: 137262618 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 11:14
can we hire IAC to get our draft moving too?
its a freakin shame.... i'm kinda mad i missed my spot here :(
53
Toral
ID: 22731114 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 11:18
I think we ought to go to 4 or 3 hour deadlines, youngroman. Not today, because people may have made their plans according to the 8-hour rule. But IMO, Wednesday morning. We need to get hoofing here.
Yahoo! had a function that allowed commissioners to send e-mails to all league members. Does rotoworld have that?
BTW, thanx for getting the answer on pickups after the draft ends and before the season. It's not the answer I hoped for, but I will deal with it.
Toral
54
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 11:26
lol, thanks guys. I just wouldn't want to responsible for holding up the draft.
RQL#3 needs serious help... you guys really should consider setting a night and plow through what left. Once I'm done with this draft I wouldn't mind spelling you guys as a queue taker if needed.
55
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 12:08
In case he didn't know...
dwfffan your up.
56
dwfffan
ID: 117413010 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 12:30
next
57
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 13:04
That would be Wiggs... followed by Loki... followed by Wiggs.
58
Toral
ID: 22731114 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 16:02
...snore...Yep, I'd definitely be in favour of a 4-hour clock.
59
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 16:33
Queue sent to IAC.....and you didn't hold anything up IAC - I would not have been able to pick for another hour so you helped!
61
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 16:53
i would not like to see the clock go to less than 6 hours. however even a 4 hour clock would be inadequate unless closer attention is paid to the draft and queues are used more liberally.
62
dwfffan
ID: 117413010 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 17:56
next
63
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 18:06
Species' pick is done...Toral is up next.
64
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 18:18
Update the grid?
Thanks, THK
65
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 18:26
I_A_C-nice pick up of jerry rice. i liked him, but wanted randle el to back up hines ward.-l
66
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 18:44
RE: 65 - I wish all the picks with my name next to them were mine, but that one is actually Species. From his Queue.
Toral has made his pick...
Tree your up next.
67
dwfffan
ID: 117413010 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 19:06
I A C, can I send you a queue for the next couple of days?
68
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 19:09
Thanks loki :)
Rice is great for a 5th receiver. Might even be a matchup play whilst waiting Boldin's return to health.
69
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 19:25
I_A_C - just sent you my 2-person-queue for 15.07
70
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 19:39
RE: 67 Sure go ahead.
RE: 69 Kewl. I might actually get to pick tonight.
71
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 19:52
Tree is home and getting ready to pick... I'm holding YR's queue, so WiddleAvi will be up shortly.
73
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 20:11
PanchoVilla is Up. Followed by Slowhand, and Bandos.
74
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 20:38
Home from work. Will pick momentarily.
75
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 21:06
wiggs- you are up in the rationales board.
77
Slowhand SuperDude
ID: 056744223 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 21:52
Pick made
78
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 21:57
THK is up... followed by double pick by Art of Monk.
79
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 22:04
My own team (for me):
QB: Brooks/Boller RB: Henry/Dillon/Brown WR: Stallworth/Porter/Branch/Lloyd TE: Witten K: D: Denver/Seattle DL: Og. IDP: Peterson, Sean Taylor
MAN, look at those scrubs! ;-)
THK
80
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 22:05
Loki, dont do placeholders for me. I was here and would have been able to put it in asap. Now I dont know what the heck I am supposed to do to eliminate the placeholder and get my rationale in.
81
I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 227221220 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 22:10
I have a suggestion... since were almost done... why don't we wait till the end of the draft, and all post all our rationals... YR, Tree, or maybe even myself, could make a new thread... with proper order.
82
WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 23:12
We can make a thread with Rationals, Your favorite & least favorite pick, Surprises of the draft, which team do you like most, etc.
83
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Tue, Aug 31, 2004, 23:27
re: #80-just following the protocol set forth by guru in his rationale thread. the following was copied from that thread:
Subject: RIFC - Draft rationales
Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Wed, Aug 18, 2004, 09:29
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This thread will be for managers in the RotoGuru Invitational Football Challenge to provide the rationale for each pick.
Here are the ground rules: 1. Only managers in this league should post here. If you want to provide feedback (either from other league managers, or from those not in the league), put it in the discussion thread. (Non-conforming discussion in this thread will be deleted.)
2. Try to keep the pick rationales in the same order as the draft. We'll attempt to keep this thread 2 rounds behind the actual draft. With the lag, most comments should not have an impact on the draft in progress. However, if there are aspects of your pick that you feel need to be kept under wraps, feel free to protect that information. In particular, please avoid mentioning the names of any players who are still undrafted at that time of the post.
Please post your comments at the time you make your pick. For example, you should post your comments for your round 1 pick when you make your round 3 selection. If you are not ready to post at that time, then, create a "placeholder" so that the next person is able to go ahead in sequence. When your post is ready, simply post it in the draft discussion thread and a moderator can copy it over.
If your rationale is due and intervening placeholders have not been inserted, please insert them before posting your rationale.
3. Once the draft is over, each manager is also encouraged to provide a general draft recap, at which time you can discuss your overall strategy, mention any undisclosed factors, comment on what worked out well and what didn't, etc.
84
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 00:52
Here is my invisible queue for my next pick after Art goes 2x:
1) Matt Stover, K Baltimore
2) Josh Brown, K Seattle
3) Kasay, K Carolina
HIGHLY doubt I need all 3 but just in case...
Thanks, THK
85
dwfffan
ID: 117413010 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 04:46
I A C queue sent for pick #16, if for some reason I dont make it back in time for my pick #17, just keep going and I will make it up. No need to wait 8 hours on me. I will check in when I return.
If we are indeed following the rules, as set out by the RIFC... then you MUST have a DL. According to this Grid (Click Me) their is indeed a seperation between a "real" DL, and LineBackers.
Otherwise... this just threw a HUGE wrench in my strategy. Their is no way I would have drafted Charles Grant at all in this league.
97
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 15:23
I am with you IAC, 2 top DL on the same team for me. I thought the rules were pretty clear here.
98
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 15:38
Let's clear this up right away. There are currently 6 teams without a DL(including mine), and I would bet that the common thinking is LBs are considered DL. Commissioner?
Common? Meaning majority right? Well let's see... my math not so good, but if 8 have drafted DL's (so far), and 6 have not... let's say 2 of those six were holding off since it is a low point position, then 4 managers might actually be under the wrong impression.
I really think you should take a look at the RIFC's draft grid. EVERY manager in the RIFC has drafted at least 1 DL.
100
WiddleAvi
ID: 4953215 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 15:58
I was under the impression that we MUST start one defensive lineman and then 2 defensive players which can be ANY position
101
WiddleAvi
ID: 4953215 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 15:59
To add on to that I thought the rules were pretty clear that we must start a Defensive Lineman
NO BRAINER HERE. I will be the first to say that either one of my DL are available for trade. By now means does a LB count as a DL.
104
Tree
ID: 76471215 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 16:32
yahoo considers LBs DL. i was going by the yahoo listings, as that is the database out players are coming from.
re post 102: D, D, DL
exactly. that means you can have TWO guys who are flex, and ONE guy who fits the DL profile, which in this case, includes linebackers.
it doesn't matter what other people drafted in other leagues. what matters here is that those who saw that LBs were also DLs used sound strategy in their drafting.
RE:104 This assumes that we are using Yahoo. Which we are not! I personally do like to use Yahoo to cross-reference position eligibily for Baseball. But this is clearly a positional error by Yahoo.
If I were you, I would have inquired about using those type of sneeky tactics with the commisioner before going and setting your draft strategy.
Now you may very well be getting burned, by thinking that you had outsmarted the rest of the league and all of the other leagues.
I looked it up in my Thesaurus and nope... I don't think that anything fits better than sneaky. My comment stands.
110
Toral
ID: 22731114 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 16:59
My belief was that DL stands for real defensive linemen- not whay Yahoo! counts as DL, since we aren't playing there. The reason RIFC required DL, I thought, is because otherwise they don't get drafted. Obciously I wouldn't have drafted Rice when I did otherwise.
Toral
111
Toral
ID: 22731114 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:03
Rotoworld's settings will govern anyway. If you try to put an LB in a DL-only slot, he won't fit, since RW treats them separately.
I think it goes without saying to reference the actuall league your playing in first. Which is Rotoworld.
I do agree with you, that we were encouraged to use Yahoo as well. But their is no way that Yahoo's messed up way of dealing with IDP is going to take precedence over Rotoworld's accurate listing of possitional eligibily.
RE:114 - His Queue was invisible. From this thread.
117
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:25
IAC - I disagree that its a sneaky strategy. If I knew LB's counted as DL I would've done the same thing in an absolute heartbeat.
What we have here is a contradiction that is going to be EXTREMELY difficult to manage fairly. In my opinion the meaning behind youngroman's post that Tree references says that Rotoworld first for the platform for our game and Yahoo for research purposes ONLY because Rotoworld's stats for last year are screwed up - it doesn't SPECIFICALLY say Yahoo is official for positional eligibility.
From my book, the post from yr paraphrased above is insufficient to say that Yahoo's position eligibility rules over Rotoworld.
Outside of the the issue of people who drafted LB's thinking they qualified at DL, I doubt many, if ANY, managers missed the fact that there must be one DL involved -- this was also posted in a discussion thread:
Am I to interpret this correctly that we need 3 IDP's? Does this mean that one of them MUST be a DL? Otherwise it can be of any position? May you choose NOT to have IDP's of any position?
62 youngroman ID: 206491016 Tue, Aug 24, 2004, 18:02 you are right species, RIFC is using the same roster-config: 1 DL + 2 IDP = 3 defense players
118
Tree
ID: 76471215 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:31
Species - actually, and honestly, i did miss that fact. i presumed, because Yahoo considers LBs to be DLs, that they counted at DLs.
119
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:40
I never looked at the yahoo site while researching the players. if I had checked there I would have pointed the yahoo-DL-position-problems out.
I really want to use the single DL slot (for real defense lineman, not linebacker) and 2 flex slots.
until today I thought a lot of us have the strategy to grab a DL in the last 2 rounds because most of them have nearly the same value. now this strategy has changed.
possible solution for this dilemma: as only 1 manager has 5 IDPs (wiggs, last 2 picked in 13th and 15th round) and 1 manager has 4 IDPs (Pancho Villa, last picked in 16th round), I say when those 2 get to their 17th round pick they can exchange their 4th and 5th IDP for some other player (DL or not). this exchange will only take place in the 17th round (not 18th or later). All managers who only have 3 or less IDP will not be affected because they will considered as 2 starters and 1 backup.
the exchanged players will be available for the remaining draft-rounds.
what do you think about this solution? the penalty would be the loss of a 13/15/16 round pick for a 17th round pick.
120
Tree
ID: 76471215 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:44
i think we should leave that up to wiggs and pancho. drafting that many IDPs may have been part of their strategy.
if we're not going to count LBs as DLs, then perhaps another idea would be to declare a moratorium on IDPs until the draft ends, then re-randomize the draft order for a three-round mini-draft.
but then again, as long as this thing is taking.
ugh, i dunno. we clearly have dueling strategies here that are now going to cost some people dearly.
121
Toral
ID: 22731114 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:49
That solution sounds reasonable.
Possible alterations:
--extend the option to people with 3 IDPs and no DL (on the ground that they are likely to have picked up starters before backups) --Let people "exchange" their IDPs in the order in which they were drafted, i.e., someone throwing back a higher pick picks a DL before someone throwing back a lower pick.
Question: would the players thrown back be immediately draftable, by the next manager up?
Toral
122
Tree
ID: 76471215 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 17:54
the reality is you still need to have THREE linebackers on your team, because of bye weeks and such.
well you don't have to, but it helps. i would have had three linebackers no matter what, but if i had known i was going to need a DL, i would have had one no later than the 12th rund.
123
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 18:15
yr-whichever way you decide to go, please do not change the basic ground rules; i.e., each team must have at least one defensive lineman. i have already expressed my feelings on changing the rules midstream.-l
Originally post #93 was directed towards wiggs. Now he is up to draft. It will be interesting to see what he has to say.
As far as alterations go... I'm not to keen on changing much. If you do decide to allow certain managers to put LB's back into the draft pool in exchange for a DL, I suggest that it be done at the same time as they draft their upcoming pick, in order to avoid the draft lingering on for much longer.
125
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 19:13
loki - ground rules will not be changed. 1 DL (no linebacker) + 2 IDP will remain. - with pick 17.02 Wiggs can exchange up to 2 of his LB for DLs (if he wants)
- with pick 17.09 Pancho Villa can exchange one of his LB for a DL (if he wants)
managers with 3 IDP will not be affected
the exchanged LBs will be available for all the others, which means dwfffan has the first shot on the dropped player(s) of Wiggs and Slowhand has the first shot on the dropped player by Pancho Villa.
126
Toral
ID: 22731114 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 19:15
Sounds fine.
127
Tree
ID: 87562618 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 19:18
it's a shame that we are playing with different slotting than yahoo.
128
WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 19:22
Is there a reason Tree does not get the same Opportunity to drop a LB and pick up a DL ??
129
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 19:29
yr has made his decision, and we should go on with the draft. wiggs you're up.
130
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 19:32
WiddleAvi - I think that those who have 3 IDPs already picked (and no DL) have 2 starters and 1 backup at this position. With the upcoming pick they can grab a DL. question is if at this point in the draft a backup-IDP is less worth then a backup RB/WR/TE/D.
if those managers really want it:
extension to aboves ruling: - if you have drafted 3 IDPs already and have no DL you can also exchange one of those LB for a DL at the time of your 17th pick
from my perspective I don't think this changes much, but I think this is the best I can get for you.
131
Tree
ID: 87562618 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 20:04
lol. it doesnt change much. my next pick *is* my 17th pick. whatever. i feel screwed by using the existing player database and using a strategy that most people in other leagues are using, but so be it.
132
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 20:44
I, on the other hand, blame myself for not paying enough attention to the rules, which were in plain view all the time. I'm just glad this was brought up now, with 4 picks left in the draft. It's not really a crisis.
133
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 21:46
LOL. I don't even want to read this crap...you can "exchange and LB for a DL"...this may be the DUMBEST THING/WORST WAY TO HANDLE something I HAVE EVER SEEN!!!! Absoultely stupid...
THK
134
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 22:27
Does anyone know how to contact Loki? We've blown 4 hours of prime time tonight.
YR... I'm not sure if your aware of this fact. But isn't Wiggs the same manager that we broke the rules for the first time. ie. A pause in the middle of the draft for several days. Now were about to break the rules for a second time? Also... Isn't Tree the same manager that had Wiggs' back by saying that he would drop out if Wiggs was skipped?
I change my stance on the ruling. I say we stop bending/breaking the rules for managers that don't play by the same rules as everyone else.
I will be HEAVILY disappointed if the rules are again broken!
I would also like to point out that a manager in RIFL, had mistaken the rules on IDP at one point too. He was really pissed of at having taken Darren Sharper a DB at pick 10.14. No change in the rules were made for this "brainfart" of his.
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 22:31
My bad, it's wiggs. Also, I don't think there should be special considerations for those of us who didn't read the rules thoroughly, and I will not take advantage of the suggested remedy.
re: #134-PV-i believe that we are waiting for wiggs to make pick 16.13. i am 16.14.
re: #135-I_A_C-as you know from my posts early on, i strongly believe in not changing the rules for one manager.
re: #134&135-as yogi berra has said, "it seems like deja vu all over again."
140
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 22:36
in yahoo DL and LB are the same pos. Isnt this a yahoo league? I know it is being run through rotoworld, but every other season has been yahoo. I dont think it is fair to change it.
It is not a Yahoo League. It is a RotoWorld league because it has a few features that seemed more interesting. One that I especially like, is proper identification of a player's position. Ray Lewis is not a Defensive Lineman!!! That is sooooo obvious.
Also, another major point was the waiver settings.
It's not a question of, why change where we play. It's a question of what rules are we playing by. Those rules were made very clear before the beginning of the draft. I did some research on Yahoo too. I noticed the same anomoly as you probably did.
But upon re-reading the rules, and checking with other leagues who are using the "same" rules as us, I came to understand that we must draft a DL. Not a Yahoo DL.
w-consider leaving a queue if you cannot be around in prime time-l
149
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:11
loki, i hope you arent talking to me.
150
Tree
ID: 87562618 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:12
canadian - you've got a big mouth. shut it.
wiggs and i are both long time fantasy players. we both went by the rules and eligibility set forth in yahoo leagues, which are the long standing way these things are played
i regret the day i showed y'all the rotoworld league thing.
i drafted absolutely fairly according to player eligibility listings in Yahoo.
i see plenty of posts here about "well, other leagues use a DL, so we have to also."
those same other leagues use yahoo, not rotoworld.
i'm disgusted. i followed the rules, drafted accordingly, and i'm now getting screwed for it, AND i have to listen to you yap like puppy.
151
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:14
Tree, there is nothing that we can do. I guess experience was our demise in this league.
152
Tree
ID: 87562618 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:29
yep. building a draft based on strategy within the context of the system used, apparently, means very little.
153
TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:31
Keep in mind...friends with Tree and no problem with wiggs as well and don't mean to piss anybody off BUT...
I think you guys are off base. "I guess experience was our demise in this league." That is an ignorant statement. It has nothing to with your experience but what rules we made before we even began drafting. We KNEW we were using RotoWorld (another is using Fanball even). We KNEW we must have a D-Lineman. I don't understand why you think you are correct here? I see no reason for you to think so. You have to draft a DL when a DL is required. SOOO? Funny thing is...you guys made mistakes but there are PLENTY of DLs remaining that are quality enough to start. Yahoo grouping LBs and DLs are stupid, as well as this argument.
THK
154
Tree
ID: 87562618 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:44
yahoo is absolutely stupid for grouping LBs and DLs together. i won't argue with you on that.
that being said, if yahoo considers LBs to be DLs, and we are required to have one DL, a LB counts as a DL.
155
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Wed, Sep 01, 2004, 23:48
THK, my only arguement is that I have never used rotoworld and that I have played in RQFL leagues before and we always use yahoo. It doesnt matter anyways, like I said I have lost interest.
156
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:03
Tree - nothing personal man, but where exactly in the "rules" that you say you followed fairly does it say that this league is using Yahoo's position eligibility?
If you can find it I'll support your position. In the absence of that, I have to disagree with your position.
Trying to connect the issue that because this league is using a DL, other leagues are using a DL and all other leagues use Yahoo, and thus you can use LB's as DL's (per Yahoo eligibility) is simply flawed.
Do you remember questions like this on old IQ or SAT tests: If some Yahoos are Rotoworlds, and all Rotoworlds are Fanballs, then all Yahoos are Fanballs.
You're trying to make all Yahoos into Fanballs, which is just wrong. The rules as I interpret them state we use the Rotoworld platform. The rules dictate we must have a DL. Again I appreciate your confusion after yr's post about using Yahoo for research, but to say you drafted fairly within the rules is incorrect, and to blame everyone else because you incorrectly assumed Yahoo position eligibility would be in effect is not the league's fault. I'm all for "bending" the rules to one's advantage - but you're taking another league's rules and bending them here. You could have easily emailed YR in private, not giving away the edge you wanted, to clarify if you had to.
157
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:06
species, all leagues prior to this season were done that way. Why would anyone thing differently?
158
WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:20
Tree & Wiggs - What is it with the 2 of you ?? First tree threatens to quit if we don't wait for Wiggs. Now Wiggs is saying that he has lost interest because he did not follow the rules (Great sportsmanship). Even if you use your Yahoo excuse the Rules clearly stated 1-3 DL, 0-3 LB, 0-3 DB. That pretty much says it all that DL & LB are not the same thing. Pancho Villa had some class and admited he made a mistake and doesn't complain about it but the 2 of you just go on bitching. Get over it and play the game. Wiggs saying that you lost interest just shows a lack of class.
159
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:22
wiggs, some of us failed to read the rules in their entirety, or glossed over them without comprehending. Why should the rest of the league suffer for following the rules? It's really quite minor since there are rounds left. As far as losing interest, many of us felt that way when the draft was shut down for 3 days.
Pancho, I posted that if my being away was going to be a problem then I would drop out. I was told not to do that.
Widdle- you dont know me well enough to be throwing insults.
162
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:30
widdle, no where did i ever say I was quiting or anything like that. Just that I dont like the way things are going.
163
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:39
This should all be water under the bridge, so let's move on. The DL position will not have that big an impact, as I pointed out, 6 teams have yet to cover that position. These slow drafts can sometimes wear on nerves, but there's no need for animosity. I'd really like to wrap by Friday and have the Labor Day weekend free of my computer altogether. Kumbaya, dudes, Kumbaya.
164
WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 00:51
Wiggs - I did not say that you were going to quit. I said Tree said he would quit. But Like Pancho said, Lets put this behind us and move on. Should be a great season and I hope you all are looking forward to it as much as I am.
Apparently I have a big mouth that needs shutting? Before you go and label me, I would appreciate if you looked at a few facts:
1) If I had originally said nothing in post #93, you would be in a much worse position at the end of the draft. At least now, you have the possibility of correcting part of the errors.
2) The rules had been set out before the start of the season, and most managers in our division took them for what they were. Only a minority of managers think differently.
3) A very humble manager (Pancho Villa), who had seen the rules the same as you, accepts the rules like a man, now that they have been clarified to him.
4) I have tried my best to take queue's from managers all throughout the draft in order that we all finnish on time and have a good season. This is the main interest; that the season be fun, and fair. This is why I am against your side in the two major incidents that have affected this league this year. Because the side you represent, is that of 2-3 managers, mine is more the general concensus of the rest of the managers.
Anyways... this discussion has now wasted close to one day of my time and about 70 spots in this thread. I suggest we shift our focus back to the matter in hand (THE DRAFT) and finish it up in a timely fashion.
Good day to ALL of you.
166
Tree
ID: 76471215 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 09:58
no queue or anything from dwfff?
167
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 10:09
He said he would show up this morning for it. I have his queue that what pretty long yesterday, but I don't have his permission to use it.
I'm holding Species queue though. He'll be next up.
Hey IAC- just wanted to say I am very grateful to you for your help with queues, info and moving this draft along. If not for your efforts we would still be in the 10th round.You've been a real positve force in this draft and I appreciate the time you must have put in monitoring the draft and all our queues. I hope I can enjoy your company in more leagues in the future. Thanks again. Slowhand
169
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 10:29
Np Slowhand. Luckily I have a work environment that is willing to look the other way, as long as my focus stays on my work.
170
wiggs
ID: 507593021 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 10:46
IAC, can you please show me 1 place where I have ever said anything bad about you? I dont believe I have, no will I ever because I dont do that. I dont like a rule that is being said, weather I missed it at the beginning or the rule wasnt stated clear enough are 2 different things, but I have NEVER said anything bad about anyone.
171
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 11:48
RE:170 - I figured that you could deduct which points were directed towards you. In order to make it clear. Labeling was not being done by wiggs.
Shesh. This is getting a little old now.
172
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 12:08
Everyone has the opportunity to defend themselves. IAC - you have just as much right to make sure you aren't unfairly painted a certain way just as much as wiggs is. Tree was perhaps a little rude, but wiggs was not - call it semantics, but those are the facts, as least as I see them.
The decision is made, the points have been made on both sides of the argument. Time to move on and have a good year - I'm just sorry that you're all playing for SECOND! ;-)
173
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 12:15
Well see who's playing for second once the draft is done. I'm sure that their are a few that have had a better draft than others. I look forward to doing a post draft wrap-up once were all done.
174
Tree
ID: 76471215 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 12:23
rude? nah. when someone accuses me of trying some underhanded tactic, they're gonna be told to shut up. period. tit for tat.
meanwhile, tick tock, the clock ticks, and the draft sits.
175
youngroman
ID: 9725411 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 12:49
I will be unavailable until around 5pm tonight. because I am not having an updated draft-sheet with me I cannot leave a queue for my upcoming pick. To not hold up the draft you can skip my 17th round pick and I will do it when I get back.
176
youngroman
ID: 9725411 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 12:49
I will be unavailable until around 5pm tonight. because I am not having an updated draft-sheet with me I cannot leave a queue for my upcoming pick. To not hold up the draft you can skip my 17th round pick and I will do it when I get back.
177
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 13:12
LOL... just read post#85... he has asked to be skipped.
I'll be posting Species queue now.
178
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 13:26
FYI - Toral is now up.
179
Tree
ID: 76471215 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 13:39
wow. notice how easy it is to miss a post...interesting...
180
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 14:08
Well... there has been an abnormal amount of post's since #92.
87 in less than one day is a lot of information to try to sort through.
181
dwfffan
ID: 117413010 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 15:09
Damn, gone a day and half and all hell breaks loose.
- AoM, you stole my back up Najeh!
182
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 15:20
Is their anything we can do to accelerate the draft a little? I would really like to finnish up before the weekend hits.
183
I_AM_CANADIAN @ Work
ID: 364563113 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 15:28
Tree is up. Then we skip YR... by his chosing. Then WiddleAvi is up.
184
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:01
can anyone summarize the DL mess for me without stepping on anyones toes. My DL's are up for trade. dwffan, sorry about najeh, we already know he is going to get some carries and I just have a feeling green is going to go down this year. Remember I am the Monk, if this comes true I might just change my name to prophet art.
185
Tree
ID: 76471215 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:07
here. will pick in a few.
Art - apparently, we need to have ONE DL on our squad. yahoo considers LBs to be DLs, so some of us were considering the LBs we drafted as DLs...
186
Species Leader
ID: 07724916 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:14
Art - there was confusion about exact positional eligibility. Some players assumed Yahoo position eligibility would apply - Yahoo considers all d-lineman and linebackers to both be considered DL eligible. Thus, they crafted their draft strategy on that presumption.
Rotoworld was agreed to be the platform for the game. Rotoworld DOES distinguish between DL's and LB's, leaving the non-DL drafters at a certain disadvantage.
There is a post that could have confused the Yahoo-assumptors where yr says that Rotoworld is the platform for the game but we could use Yahoo for "research purposes" because Rotoworld's stats are screwed up - but it doesn't say that Yahoo's position eligibilty would apply. That post, combined with some people's assumptions that because other leagues - both this year and in years past have all used Yahoo - that this league would use Yahoo, caused the confusion.
187
WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:19
I have to run out. Here is my que in case I am not back for my pick
If none are available just skip me and I will pick when I get back
John Carney, K, NO Brett Conway, K ,MIN Ryan Longwell, K, GB
188
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:32
tree-good pick up of little. from what i have read he is scheduled for a preliminary hearing in october. the way the legal system works he should be fine for the season, that is of course if he can concentrate with the charges hanging over his head-l
189
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:53
anyone going to be around tonight that i can leave a que. Going to the Utah vs. Texas A&M game.
190
youngroman
ID: 59242611 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 16:59
I'm back and picked my skipped 17.07
191
Tree
ID: 76471215 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 17:09
yea. worse comes to worse with Little is that he misses some time. someone will come up this season on the DL and play better than expected, or will just come out of nowhere to dominate. so there are always options.
if he plays the whole season, he's got great upside...
192
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 18:31
Art of Monk, Are you a fellow Utahn? I live just south of Point of the Mountain in Lehi, but am in the Salt Lake Valley almost every day. Oh yeah, Go Utes!!
193
Art of Monk
ID: 32531249 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 18:37
I am a UtahMan. So living down in utah county are you a zoobie fan.
194
Pancho Villa Sustainer
ID: 533817 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 19:13
When I moved to Utah in 1986(from Hawaii), I became a Utes fan. In 2001, I was hired to build and run a sports radio station in Provo - KOVO 960AM. I was always very anti-BYU, but suddenly I was covering them as our main topic, especially after they started 12-0, the BCS snub and all. Getting to interview guys like Reno Mahe, Brandon Doman, Luke Staley, Ryan Denney and others turned me into a BYU supporter at least for that year. I'm no longer anti-BYU, having been close to their programs, but since 1280 bought the station and my job ended, I've gone to being neutral about them, except when they play Utah in football, then it's GO UTES!!
195
loki Dude
ID: 4211201420 Thu, Sep 02, 2004, 19:23
to yr and the rest of the managers-suggestion: a clock =< 4 hours until 12mn friday to try to complete the draft and then suspend the clock until 7am on tuesday because of the labor day weekend????