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Sports Challenge     CBS Sportsline     Fanball Commissioner     Sandbox     Yahoo Football     Yahoo Football Plus     Yahoo Survival Football     TX- Football 0 Subject: Playoff Challenge Posted by: RBP - [49957288] Tue, Jan 03, 2006, 21:43 Feel free to discuss 2006 Playoff Challenge here and worst case you can post your lineup here prior to kickoff. If you post a lineup and change it later thats ok but your last legal lineup submitted will be counted. Thanks Scott 1 RBP       ID: 49957288       Wed, Jan 04, 2006, 17:54 I have three lineups so far and about a dozen committed to play. 2 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 00:25 Hook'em! 3 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 00:29 Did you just hear Matt Whinehart say that he still thinks "we have the best team."????? Dude, you lost! Take it like a man! You don't have the best team ANYMORE! 4 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 00:43 See the University of Texas tower lit orange live at: http://www.universitycoop.com/ Tower Lit = National Championship 5 Ednecks       ID: 4110311923       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 01:14 Now that was a fun game to watch. It could have gone either way, VY is a stud!! Shak's year just keeps on getting worse? JHHH must be relieved after the amount of bets/Lunches he made over this game... 6 RBP       ID: 4207420       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 01:52 Shakky Shak...looks like Big Daddy double dipped you with the OSU and UT wins..... On a side note and I know HHH will appreciate this. I bet a guy I work with dinner but here's the catch, I gave him USC plus 2.5 points! Somebody find me another person alive that bet anything over $5 AND gave USC points. Rationale? I was certain Tejas would win and if they win more than likely it will be by 3 or 7 points. Booya! 7 JHHH       ID: 33647188       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 05:26 Isn't dinner in Korea less than $5.00 though... ;) PS. The only bet I turned down...aside from Shak's attempt to raise ours...was a dude here at work that wanted to bet hair. Texas wins, he shaves...USC wins, I shave. I couldn't do it. I am one ugly dude already. And I am one seriously ugly bald dude, Cherish has basic training photos to prove it!!!! 8 RBP       ID: 241110115       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 07:39 A good dinner is $10-15. I cannot envision a shaved HHH. Jon you have to appreciate the balls (ie lack of brains) it takes to give USC and points. Part of the fun in that bet is that I have a "story" if I win and you know I like telling stories...... 9 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 10:48 Ok, ok, I'm here to eat crow. I also saw Leinart say he thought they were still the best team and I thought the exact same thing. I thought it was tacky when Chad Johnson and Carson Palmer said it after losing to the Steelers and I felt the same after Leinart said it. It really made my skin crawl. It was truly a great game and Jon and Scott, you guys can pat yourselves on the back all you want, but that game could have turned on any number of plays. I don't care what anyone says, those teams were very evenly matched and if they play 100 times, each team probably wins 50. So for Scott to pat yourself on the back for saying you knew they would win as if they were clearly the superior team is a bit ridiculous. It took Vince Young to play the game of his life for Texas to pull it out, plain and simple. The most interesting thing I've heard since is how great it would have been if there would have been a four team playoff. Can you imagine if the playoffs would have been USC vs. OSU and UT vs. PSU, with the winners meeting in two weeks? As great as the Rose Bowl was, I think that would have been a dream NCAA postseason. I'm also hearing talk that Vince Young would be foolish not to turn pro after that performance. I would tend to agree. I think he has a real good chance to go #2 to NO. In hindsight, Leinart should have left last year when he would have been the #1 pick. Young's value will never be higher than it is right now and any number of bad things could happen to him should he stay in college. If he does go, I don't see how Texas can be a top 10 team. They are the closest thing I've seen to a one-man team in a long time. 10 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 11:18 From the LA Times… "We still think we are a better football team but we just couldn't make the plays," said Matt Leinart. For once in his brilliant career here, he was wrong. The Trojans were not the better team here. Early, they were the more arrogant team. Late, they were the more knock-kneed team. By the time they stumbled off through somebody else's confetti, they were certainly the more exhausted team. But they were not the better team. Their defense was beaten into submission in giving up two late scores to the incredible Young, whose 467 total yards would give him the Heisman over USC's Reggie Bush in a recall election. Their offense made dumb mistakes in the first half, and then couldn't gain two measly yards on one measly play in the fourth quarter. Their coach blew it by not asking for a timeout that might have resulted in a replay review of a Texas first-half touchdown. After nearly three full seasons of being a team of big moments, this time the moment was bigger. 11 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 11:19 Texas is the better team. Sacrilege, you say? Perhaps you should take a closer look at the two rosters. Both are loaded with talent and experience, particularly on offense. Each will easily send as many as two-thirds of its starters to the NFL. But USC isn't without its weaknesses. The Trojans' already inexperienced linebacking corps has been riddled with injuries. Their cornerbacks have often appeared overmatched. Their special-teams players have been average at best. Texas has no such noticeable flaws. Besides Young, its skill players aren't necessarily as heralded as USC's, but nearly any team in the country would love to have Jamaal Charles and Ramonce Taylor in its backfield, or David Thomas as its tight end. All five offensive linemen are solid. Both defensive tackles are future first-rounders. Every member of the secondary is rock solid. I didn’t say this….it came from Stuart Mandel of Sports Illustrated. (http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=cnnsi-whytexaswillwin&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns) 12 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 11:36 Jon, there's no doubt in my mind that Texas has a much better defense than USC, but it's also quite clear that USC has the better offense. It's a wash. I'm not buying that crap that Texas is clearly the better team. Anyone that saw that game last night knows that those teams were very evenly matched. Everyone kept saying that Texas has a dominating defense -- I'm sorry, but I didn't see it. Leinart still threw for well over 300 yards despite playing in a fog for the 2nd quarter. White and Bush still ran for over 200 yards with the USC offensive line dominating the Texas line up the middle. Dwayne Jarrett had 10 catches for 121 and a TD. What exacly did the UT defense excel in? I will agree that this USC team was flawed, which makes all that ESPN hype of this year's USC being one of the top 2 or 3 teams of all times ridiculous -- it wasn't even as good as last year's team. I wonder how much of Young's performance was because he's that good or was it because the USC defense is just average at best? I admit Young looked good, but he didn't have any electrifying runs like M. Vick had when he was in college. 13 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 11:45 Jon, that was really beneath you to pull up a Stuart Mandel quote written prior to the game when the media hype machine was in full gear. I could pull up any number of quotes that said that USC was the best team of all time (or at least #2). Show me a quote from Stuart or any other expert that says they are clearly the best team now. All I'm hearing is what a great game it was and how great Vince Young is/was. He was undoubtedly the best player on the field last night. Had he played like that all year, he would have been the Heisman winner. 14 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 12:18 Here's a nice quote from a USC homer: It could have been, had the Trojans not given up 18 fourth-quarter points, including two VY touchdown runs that featured more missed tackles than you can shake a Song Girl pompom at. It could have been, had the Trojans converted a fourth-and-2 at the Texas 45 with only 2:13 remaining on the clock. It could have been, had the Trojans not given up 289 rushing yards (200 by Young) and 267 passing yards (Young was 30-of-40). It could have been, had the Trojans not used all their timeouts, leaving none available for their final, desperate drive. It could have been, had Heisman Trophy winner Reggie Bush not suffered a blood-flow problem to his brain during a second-quarter pass play where he attempted to lateral -- repeat, lateral -- as Longhorn defenders were attached to his uni. Hello, fumble. It could have been, had the Trojans converted a fourth-and-1 at the Texas 17 midway through the first quarter. It could have been, had the Trojans not belly flopped on three consecutive first-half possessions inside the Texas 26 that resulted in zero points. The Longhorns won fair and square, but the Trojans helped. A lot. And so did a Big Ten officiating crew that apparently received pregame instructions from Sun Belt refs. And the crack instant-replay crew must have been watching The Cartoon Channel on their monitors when Young's left knee hit the turf moments before he pitched to Selvin Young for a second-quarter touchdown. And yet, no review. Amazing. 15 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 15:43 I still say the "left knee" pitch resulted would have resulted in a 1st down, and USC wasn't stopping much at that point of the game. 1st and goal from the 8 if I remember correctly. You've got a timeout USC...use it. It could have been, if USC had scored more points than Texas at the 60 minutes played mark. VY pretty much played like that all year, but you don't need to run for 200 yards when you're up 40 - 3. Had the Heisman voting been today the result would be different, you cannot dispute that. And if VY goes pro, he goes #1 (not #2), especially this year with Houston being his hometown. You'd be an idiot not to take him number one...he's an instant superstar, a bigger faster Mike Vick. You want an expert that said after the game that Texas is the better team? I give you 65 so-called experts: "The Longhorns received all 65 first-place votes." 16 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 15:47 Does that mean that USC was the better team before the game was played? 17 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:03 Passing V. Young 13/24 for 162 1 TD and 1 Int Rushing V. Young 11 rushes for 19 yard and 0 TDs This was his line from the Texas A&M game. A game in which UT was trailing in the 2nd half and only pulled away after a blocked punt. This also happened to be the last game before the Heisman voting. I agree that if the vote were held today, he would win it, but he had the misfortune of having his worst game of the year right before the voting. Conversely, Bush had his best game. VY may become a very good NFL QB, but I don't see how he goes #1, especially if Houston makes the pick. Perhaps your still a little high and feeling a little giddy from the big upset. Take some time and think about it before you gush about how he will be "an instant superstar" in the NFL. I believe many "experts" projected the same type of success for Vick. 18 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:03 Yes. 19 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:06 By instant superstar I'm not talking about huge NFL success. I'm talking marketing machine, much like Vick. Jerseys selling off the shelves, commercials, Pro-Bowls when they may not be deserved...you know, like Vick. 20 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:11 OIC, is that the criteria with which they draft college players now? 22 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:15 I guess you don't see the potential just yet...be patient, you won't have to wait long. Your vision must be shielded by a Bush. 23 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:17 I see all kinds of potential, Jon, I just don't know if that translates directly into guaranteed success in the NFL. Of course you know better than most. I will bow down to you and kiss your feet if VY goes #1 over Bush. 24 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:29 USC fans did you watch the N.D. or Boise State games. Ohio State was a better team ask Texas fans.........Go U.K. 25 RBP       ID: 241110115       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:37 Great game BTW. I'll respond with my comments (like somebody cares) from work. 26 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:44 OK Ted, you piqued my curiosity. What the H#ll does Boise State have to do with USC or UT? 27 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:49 Boise State Sucks! 28 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:52 If you have a hard time beating Boise State did you think they could beat Superman.. 29 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 16:57 I'm sorry! Fresno State, its all the same 30 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 17:04 I live in Ky so i had to hear Louisville fans talk about beating Boise State last year. Sorry! 31 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 17:08 No worries, Ted. We always welcome expert opinions like yours on our board. Are you in our playoff pool or just a lurker? 32 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 17:19 I'm in you always need another neck in the game. 33 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 17:23 OIC, are you related?? Tedneck. I like it. 34 RBP       ID: 49957288       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 17:41 Yes they are related. VY, unreal--still in awe of his performance. Bush--What does it say that on the biggest play of the season Reggie was on the sidelines with is helmet off? (4th and 2) Sneaky Pete--I follow recruiting hard core so I read some of things Pete does to get recruits and how much pressure he puts on them. I did not like him. Now I do. Total class act after the game. I have 100% more respect for him. On a side note he had a short coaching stint at OSU, not sure if you knew that. Media--After the game the first two people interviewed were Leinhart and Carroll, shocked me for one. Pete almost looked embaressed that he was being interviewed. Lienhart--Lack of mobility is going to shorten his NFL career. I do not think he is a sure fire NFL star. I'm certain Young will be a star. More to come, I have an appointment. 35 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 18:05 Is Young #1 With a Bullet? 36 Ted       ID: 3901515       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 18:28 Yes the Edneck is the undersized big brother i'm the more athlete one. 37 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 18:35 Nice, well boys and girls, it's been fun. I believe I've spread enough sunshine for one day. I'm off to watch the UCLA/Arizona basketball game. Isn't life great? 38 Ednecks       ID: 4110311923       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 18:46 Believe me Ted, these boys have had enough beating's from the Neck, probably trying to figure out if it runs in the family. It baffles me that after seeing how VY basically out played all the superstars in that game and you still have doubts he can't play like that in the NFL? When you talk about how to succeed as a NFL QB, #1 you want composure and VY reeks of the stuff. Brady is a prime example, he's not the best passer or the best runner, but his composure is what makes him a little better then the rest..you never see him flustered. VY has the same qualities and is getting better as a passer game by game. Being the #1 draft pick in the draft doesn't mean your the best available player, I'd be surprised if Houston takes VY, but Carr is not the answer even with Bush!! Greatness is never achieved alone, it will take quality players around both Bush and VY for them to be superstars in the NFL. 39 RBP       ID: 49957288       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 19:03 Only team to hold UT under 40 points? Ohio State In a playoff I still think Texas wins if they were in a four team tourney with USC, OSU and PSU. If OSU had a healthy Bobby Carpenter I might feel different but I don't. How big is the drop off between the top 4 teams and the rest of the country? Had a pretty good discussion in the workcenter who should be #5, I said LSU. Suprised WVU got to 5 in one of the polls. We did agree that after the top 4 you can rank them 100 different ways in the top 10. UT if Young comes back could basically duplicate USC's accomplishment by winning 35 straight games (if undefeated next season). They could also surpass them by winning back to back BCS championships. I wonder if this time next year I'll be hearing about Texas the way I was sick of hearing about USC. I'm sure the love fest with ND will continue but until they get something that resembles a Div 1 defense they can forget about it. Great game, can't say it enough. Really enjoyed watching it and it lived up to the hype. 40 RBP       ID: 49957288       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 19:12 Here's his running diary of the Rose Bowl. As with all of his running diaries, some out and out hilarious stuff in here... My personal fave: 8:17 -- Highlight of the game so far: LeAnn Rimes belting out the National Anthem, followed by a cut to Matt Leinart with a pensive, "Have I had her yet?" look on his face. He's the best. We need to figure out a way to get him on the Jets next year. sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/060105 (Unfortunately, I have to make this disclaimer: This is primarily for comedic purposes only. PLEASE don't take too seriously. Just enjoy the comedy. Funny read. link 41 TrashHaulers       ID: 30035518       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 19:43 Is this a usc-ut board or playoff challenge board? What is the line-up requirement for the PC? 42 RBP       ID: 49957288       Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 19:51 Pro Formation……1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 DEF/ST Three Wide………1 QB, 1 RB, 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 DEF/ST Full House………..1 QB, 3 RB, 1 WR, 1 TE, 1 K, 1 DEF/ST Run and Shoot…..1 QB, 1 RB, 4 WR, 1 K, 1 DEF/ST 43 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 01:22 Paid in full. Ed RBP STB Buddy 44 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 01:49 I have lineups from Shak ShakII RBP JHHH Ed Buddy Steve Robinson (Grande) Get them in before kickoff. At that time I'll blast them out (actually I'll be sleeping at kickoff but soon after I'll send them. 45 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 07:07 11 signed up that have sent in lineups. 46 Ted       ID: 3901515       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 07:32 Do you have my lineup if not here it is. T Brady T Barber R Johnson S Smith Hoshmandzadeh Shockey Vinietri N.E. 47 Joe       ID: 4652283       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 08:26 thanks for the tip Ted, 48 Ted       ID: 3901515       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 08:35 Somebody always needs some help from a Leonhart. 49 Edneck Survivor Stud       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 13:23 Joe does need a little help, he's been cheating off (AJaye's) cheatsheet for the least few years. 50 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 16:05 Where's the sheet with the lineups RBP? 51 Edneck Survivor Stud       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 17:56 RBP wakeup and send the Sheet. I need to see how bad I'm whooping up on JHHH. 52 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 18:03 Hey...I got 3 points from my kicker!!! Can you beat that? How many people started Washington's D? Can I change to Wash's D since the sheets not out yet? 53 Edneck Survivor Stud       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 18:06 Yeah I got 7 from Portis and 2 from Cooley..which is pretty sad..I don't think many picked Wash defense! We know Tedward didn't. 54 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 19:15 Sheet is out. 55 Ted       ID: 3901515       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 19:46 Don't N.E. stand for Washington? 56 Ted       ID: 3901515       Sat, Jan 07, 2006, 20:02 Brady could be big for me and JHHH. 57 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 01:47 Pats D/Wash D/Brady/Watson were the guys to play today. 58 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 05:21 Only mistakes I see on the sheet so far: NE Defense = 22 pts (8 sack/fum rec/int total + 1 TD) S. Moss = 3pts (had 11 yds rushing) Brunell = -1pts (don't know where your 1/2 pt came from) 59 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 07:02 Did Moss lose a fumble? No idea why the .5 for MB? 60 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 07:04 corrections made. 61 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 08:11 No Moss fumble that I remember. NFL.com does show a fumble by Moss in the GameCenter, but does not show one in the Full Play-by-Play. ESPN, CNN, and Yahoo do not show a Moss fumble. 62 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 08:27 I found that he fumbled on cbs but couldn't find where it was recoverd by Tampa. Maybe he fumbled out of bounds? 63 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 15:51 I just sent out the "cleaned up" version of the sheet with the most up to date stats. Check my work. 64 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:04 6 teams stung with a Carson Palmer injury on the first play....Joe, Buddy, RBP, Shak, Big Ed, and STB. 65 Ted       ID: 3901515       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:10 I really hate to see that..........Sorry guys! 66 RBP       ID: 49957288       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:18 Ouch. At least we will get more points that Brunell and Manning..... The guys with Brady hit the jackpot! 67 Edneck Survivor Stud       ID: 30039613       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:22 New Year, New Luck, New Champ (Joe)...damn I hate even years...It's not over till BigEd starts singing!! 68 Edneck Survivor Stud       ID: 30039613       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:25 "Turn out the lights, the parties over"..dum de dum dum!! Meds have kicked in. 69 RBP       ID: 49957288       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:28 HHH are they going to light the tower tonight or hang a black flag on it because VY is leaving? It sounds like he may be #2 or #3 and I really like him at 3 to the Titans. Would rather go to the Saints or Titans? Don't answer, it is rhetorical. 70 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 17:53 I wouldn't count him out at #1 yet...it's going to be extremely tough for Houston not to take him. The Saints would love to have him too! It will be interesting....it will also be interesting to see how Texas does without him. Hang the black flag...definitely a sad day in Austin. 71 RBP       ID: 49957288       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 18:04 I think he should go #1. I love Reggie Bush though but I have a growing concern that he may not be an every down franchise type back. I'm probably being too critical and I'm just thinking out loud). He is a game breaker though and very exciting, can't blame Houston if they take him. How can the Texans justify taking him after spending all of that cash on Carr? On the other hand how can Houston justify NOT TAKING HIM! Maybe I'm just caught up in all of the Rose Bowl hype but this kid has Super Star written all over him. I can tell you this, I'd hate to get drafted by the Saints and have to live in NO. Should be interesting to see who goes where. Reggie also needs to declare. Bungles/Stillers looks like an instant classic in the making. 72 Joe       ID: 17035813       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 19:15 Two points for Palmer is better then negative four for manning...I guess I should feel lucky....high snap for FG hurt too. 73 RBP       ID: 49957288       Sun, Jan 08, 2006, 19:44 Joe I need your payment info, I need to paypal you some cash or send you a check, let me know where to send it. Scott 74 Joe       ID: 4652283       Mon, Jan 09, 2006, 07:56 I will get that information after work for you today. I cant beleive that no one picked up foster yesterday. I was stuck in between Foster and Barber and figured Barber would be the safer pick, less bodies in the back field in NY, plus I never had barber in a real league before. It must be the Joe NY RB curse. It is even worse then the SI and Madden curse. I did the same thing to Curtis Martin this year. 75 Ted       ID: 3901515       Mon, Jan 09, 2006, 18:13 I need some info who to pay and do you have paypal. 76 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Jan 09, 2006, 22:48 Ted hold your money for the time being. 77 Shak       ID: 481029813       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 15:23 I'm still fascinated by all the VY-hysteria from the Rose Bowl. I can't ever recall there being this much excitement/hype about a player based on one game. His stock rose through the roof in a game versus a below average defense. I already hear JHHH saying he's been playing like that all year, but if that's true, why did things change so dramatically after the game. So many of our "experts" expected UT to win, didn't they also expect VY to have this type of performance? Why did that game change his mind to turn pro? Why is there only now talk of him being drafted anywhere from 1-3? Don't get me wrong -- I'm not a VY hater. I'm just intrigued by what seems to me to be a knee jerk reation to one game. I, too, am very excited to see how his skills will play out against NFL defenses, but from all accounts, he has much to learn about the NFL and would be best served by riding the bench for two or three years. As for the draft, I think much will happen between now and April. You'd think the Texans would be open for trade talks, but how do you trade away the rights to a superstar, which is what is projected for the top three picks? Houston has come out and said they would take Bush, but might they succumb to pressure from their fans and take the hometown hero? How much input will their new coach have? Last year Leinart would have been the #1 pick. His stock has fallen some because everyone has been looking for deficiencies in his game. Now they will do the same for VY. They'll talk about his throwing motion, his ability to read defenses, his lack of experience in a pro style offense. After the Rose Bowl excitement has faded, will his stock remain high or will it fall off? I think ultimately, Leinart will be a Carson Palmer clone, with an upside of Tom Brady. He is definitely more polished than VY. I'm very high on Leinart because I believe he is an accurate passer and reads defenses well. I don't believe mobility will be a huge issue for him since no QB can be successful in the NFL without protection (and he's not as immobile as Bledsoe). USC was very successful vs. the blitz because of Leinart's ability to read defenses and his quick release. As for VY, I think the sky's the limit, but it will take him longer to get used to NFL defenses. He will be more of a project with a bigger potential payoff, but also more risk. I'm starting to ramble, so I'll stop here and wait for your feedback. 78 RBP       ID: 49957288       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 18:08 Great points. I also wonder how he will do as a drop back passer in a pro style offense. Questions abound but I have a highlight video of VY from 2004, I'll send it to you. 79 RBP       ID: 49957288       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 18:40 Maybe the team that drafts VY will tailor the offense to meet his strengths just like Texas did. Botton line: Reggie Bush in the right situation will be a star. Matt Leinhart in the right situation will be a star. Vince Young in the right situation will be a star. I can how all three could be a bust. Can Reggie run inside to get the tough yards? Is he durable enough to be an every down back? Will VY's unorthodox throwing motion hurt him at the next level? Can he drop back and throw in a pro style offense? Is ML mobile enough? Does he have enough arm strength? Was a real good QB in a great system? We can pick apart these guys all day. When in doubt draft D'Brickshaw "whats his name" or AJ Hawk, those guys are can't miss prospects. Can't wait for the draft, can you tell. 80 Every body loves Ed       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 21:53 If I remember right we were talking about Maurice Clarett a few years ago and him being a can't miss prospect, well at least Scotty was talking that way. You can never tell how any College player will react to the speed, toughness, and mental aspect of the NFL. You can talk all you want about either of the guys Shak has mentioned and build a case for either one of them being the better player. It's a what have you done for me lately world and VY is leading in that category, so you got to go with the hot hand...probably lucky I'm not a talent scout. 81 Every body loves Ed       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 21:57 It's pretty safe to say VY, Bush and Leinhart wont be robbing some innocent couple behind a night club anytime soon? 82 Every body loves Ed       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 22:14 Maybe Clarret can share a cell with Rae Carruth!! 83 Everybody loves Ed       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 22:19 Was he convicted, just joking around...last I heard the guy said he wasn't sure it was Clarett in a Ski MAsk!! 84 Everybody loves Ed       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 22:23 I beleive the guy that got robbed said he gave Clarett a 40 yard start and he was so slow he almost caught him before he reached his get-away car!! He He 85 RBP       ID: 49957288       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 22:40 MoC, what a joke. Yes he was a "can't miss" prospect and I'm sure I was talking him up. He had more upside that Teddy Ginn Jr. Last I heard he turned himself in and pleaded innocent. I try to avoid talking about him, what a waste of talent. Some kids are held up on a pedestal all of their lives so they think they can get away with anything. He constantly listened to bad advice. Mo would have been a senior this year, what a waste. 86 Everybody loves Ed       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 23:14 I think you can add MArcus Vick to that category. What makes these people think the're above approach and the law. I guess If you put the most honest and rich man in a down and out position like in the Eddie Murphy movie "Trading Places" there is no telling what desperation will make people do. I know how a College campus makes these guys Hero's..I attended UK and saw the admiration the students/State placed on the Basketball team..they were treated like Kings and larger then life character's. I even did it myself, I remember Sam Bowie was in one of my classes and I couldn't stop looking at him. 87 Shak       ID: 165532722       Tue, Jan 10, 2006, 23:24 Was it love at first sight? 88 RBP       ID: 49957288       Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 00:41 Sam Bowie. Drafted between Hakeem the Dream and some guy named Michael Jordan. 89 RBP       ID: 49957288       Wed, Jan 11, 2006, 01:59 3-Pete? 90 Shak       ID: 481029813       Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 10:50 On ESPN's Mike and Mike in the Morning, they announced "in a stirring upset, RB Bush is returning to school for his senior year." I almost fell out of my chair when I heard that announcment. After they returned from their news break, they apologized for the misleading announcement. It was Mike Bush, who was returning to Louisville for his senior year. Whew. 91 RBP       ID: 241110115       Thu, Jan 12, 2006, 16:29 LMAO! 92 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 12:48 I have everyone's lineup, EXCEPT for lil' Joe. Harmon is a Tight End short of a complete lineup. (I emailed him) Steve Robinson (Grande?) is starting Smith at WR...(is that Steve or Rod?) I'm starting Steve for him unless I hear from him. (I emailed him too) Cheers, JHHH 93 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 16:15 OK...Howie, Jimmy, and Strahan have scared me away from Clinton Portis. I'm starting S. Alexander instead of Portis. 94 Everybody hates Ed       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 16:22 You better add my name to that list of scaring you away from Portis. You, ted and Shakdiddy will be hard to catch...good luck 95 Shak       ID: 165532722       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 17:11 I sent Scott a lineup change yesterday for my Shak II team. The QB is Brady and K is Elam. 96 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 17:18 Got Shak II's changes...BIG thanks to all those who HYPE'd me into starting Alexander, NOT! 97 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 17:20 Shak do you have two teams? Or is one of those teams a friend/family member? 98 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 18:39 Joe's lineup....... QB. Jake Plummer RB. Mike Anderson RB. Cory Dillon RB. Willie Parker WR. Hines Ward TE. Chris Cooley K. John Kasay Defense Chicago Bears 99 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 18:46 Shak has two teams, I told him he could so don't bash him. Double the pleasure. I'm going to win anyways so the more the merrier. 100 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:03 - Glad I waited on Alexander. - Good to see that Ted who was the week 1 leader has Alexander because we need all the help we can to catch him. - With the quality of defenses left a shootout in these playoffs will be defined as 21-17. - Chris Cooley always seems wide open, maybe the Skins would do more if they threw it to him more than 4 times a game. - Nice catch Mr. Moss 101 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:41 Standings after game 1 of week 2: Ted L. 137 Shak II 135 Buddy 127.5 JHHH 116.5 RBP 109.5 Joe 95 Harmon 85 Ed L. 91.5 Shak 84.5 Barker 75.5 STB 64.5 Grande 60 Skiba 59.5 102 Ed of Loserville       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:43 Yeah, Alexander getting hurt really stings. He'll probably get three TD's next week, nothing you can do about a guy getting a concussion or knee blown out..fate Shak Bashing, now who would pick on Shakdaddy? 103 Ed of Loserville       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:46 What happened to my EdII lineup? I had JAckson, Moss, Cooley and Hassellbeck started in that one..He He 104 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:51 Alexander had -2, is that correct HHH? 105 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:51 Gotta love D. Jackson when your the only guy who used him! 106 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:53 Ok, I missed the pregame show....what the he!! happened to Jimmy Johnsons hair? 107 Ed of Loserville       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 19:55 Trashman second week in row Watson and JAckson witht the big sleeper pick...that's how you win the big one. 108 Ted       ID: 59043126       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 20:01 Anybody feeling sorry for the Tedneck. 109 Ed of Loserville       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 20:04 Ted these boys are ruthless, Sorry is not in anyone's vocabulary. 110 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 20:06 Jackson was huge. I considered him but need a WR for next week so I waited. That is EXACTLY how you win, get the sleepers. The guys who had Moss LAST week also feel a little screwed including me. "Anybody feeling sorry for the Tedneck." I think you can put me in the NO category Ted. Nobody roots for the front runner except the front runner. You'll be lucky to hold your lead through the weekend. 111 Ted       ID: 59043126       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 20:09 Thats ok i was happy as hell that Palmer went out last week, just hate see the knee get hurt. 112 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 20:09 Jackson 27.5 Moss 22.5 Hasselbeck 22 Cooley 15 Brown 8 Portis 6 Seahawks 6 Jurevicius 3.5 Alexander -2 113 Ted       ID: 59043126       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 20:12 Hey! Still holding the lead with a BIG -2 from Alexander. 114 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 21:39 That was not Pass INT! I will take the MA short TD run though :-) 117 Joe       ID: 17035813       Sat, Jan 14, 2006, 21:47 Yeah that was Pass Int...I guess. go anderson, i need some points 119 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 00:00 Shak gets two teams? How come that offer wasn't made to everyone? It's all good, Shak will lose anyway. :-) 120 Shak       ID: 165532722       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 00:11 Yup, and I only have to pay for the one that does the best. :-) Go T Jones!! 121 Shak       ID: 165532722       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 00:12 Didn't you guys read the fine print? 122 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 04:23 Go Willie Parker! I'm the only one with him so I need 20+ points from him. 123 Joe       ID: 4652283       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 05:33 yeah RBP,you so special I hope Parker does good just for you also..... 124 RBP       ID: 241110115       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 06:14 For Tim Dahl 125 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 08:28 Doesn't the fine print say something like having more than one team increases your chance of winning, but guarantees one of your teams will lose. 126 Shak       ID: 165532722       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 09:23 I think Confucius said that. How did Buddy get his total so wrong?? He had himself with 192.5 and Jon has him with 174. Wishful thinking? 127 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 09:34 I don't know why the scores were so different. Everyone please check my work...at least on your own team. 129 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 09:53 I took my own advice and found a mistake on my team. Alexander got Portis' points, because of my last minute lineup change. Cost me 8 points and a chance to use Alexander next week. Oh well... 130 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 09:59 Confucius know why Buddy score so different,he live in make beleive world where he wins everything and all the women adore him! Confucius say Shak need two team to counter the Bad/evil/stupid Shak. Confucius say this must be make beleive world, BigEd is losing!! 131 Shak       ID: 165532722       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 10:23 Jon, on the newest spreadsheet, you didn't make my substitutions. I should have Brady in for Plummer and Elam in for J Brown. 132 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 11:07 Yeah, you forgot my substitutions too. Jackson for Alexander and Bears in for NE. I sent you a Email before the games? 133 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 12:07 You caught me...I fixed it...again! Don't know where that change went. 134 Ted       ID: 59043126       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 12:08 I changed Watson added Cooley i sent my changes to the Edneck Because Scott has a sorry ass E-mail account. 135 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 12:09 Team Total pts players left Shak II 199.5 2 Ted L. 175 2 Buddy 174 2 RBP 158 3 JHHH 145.5 4 Joe 131 4 Barker 121.5 4 Harmon 113 2 STB 111.5 4 Ed L. 106.5 4 Shak 98 6 Skiba 97 5 Grande 60 5 136 Joe       ID: 41081515       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:11 No INT huh.....either that was the worst call in the NFL this year (home team advantage) or just payback for the no call false start against steelers on 4th and one 137 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:22 That game was a test for the nerves. Pitt deserved to win, Vanderjagt just choked. 138 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:28 Team Total pts players left Shak II 199.5 2 Ted L. 181.5 1 Buddy 181.5 1 JHHH 171 2 RBP 165.5 2 Ed L. 161.5 1 Joe 146 2 Barker 144 2 Shak 142.5 2 STB 140.5 1 Skiba 128.5 2 Harmon 123 1 Grande 78 3 139 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 16:29 "He's just a stupid kicker." I didn't say it. 140 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 07:02 Team Total pts Shak II 216 Buddy 185.5 Ted L. 185.5 RBP 182 JHHH 180.5 Skiba 176.5 Ed L. 174 Grande 165.5 Joe 161 Barker 159 Shak 153 STB 144.5 Harmon 129.5 141 Shak       ID: 0100210       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 12:22 Who else was sandbagging all the Indy players for the Super Bowl. With no clear favorites this weekend, it will make things very interesting. Hate to be shorthanded for the Super Bowl. 142 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 16:42 Must be easy to pick players when you have 2 teams. 143 RBP       ID: 241110115       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 17:02 Yup I'm screwed, I have used 8 players still alive in the playoffs. That is real bad. 144 Shak       ID: 0100210       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 17:05 Buddy, you have to learn to think outside of the box. Don't blindly follow the masses. :-) After finishing dead last in the LMSCL and last year's playoff challenge, I think someone as lacking in football knowledge as me deserves to have two teams just to have a fighting chance. Besides, I desperately need to win this to help pay off my debts to Scott and Jon. 145 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:03 "Besides, I desperately need to win this to help pay off my debts to Scott and Jon." AMEN to that! 146 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:10 Yeah I've only used S. Smith, Pitt, Elam, Alexander. So my choices are a little better then some, not sure if that helps or not. It will be tough to catch Shak anyway. A lot of teams Bunched up for a second place finish. Yeah, don't bust on Shak soley because you might be following the masses..go against your reasoning, just to be different. I really don't care about two teams If he's willing to pay for it. 147 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:25 Shak is extremely opininated for someone who admit he sucks? Shak you ever heard of the Yankees, they have bought a few championship also...Damn..Yeah..That hurts...maybe not the yankees seem fine with it? 148 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:34 Does that count as thinking outside the Box? What Box we talking about? Is that a reference to a women's love area? 149 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:49 I don't think he's speaking of the "Love Box". My team is screwed, I've picked players on teams that keep winning. That is a bad formula for success. 150 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 18:59 Just bustin your balls Shak daddy. You'll find a way to lose that lead :-) 151 Shak       ID: 165532722       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:20 No problem, Buddy. I've learned long ago that you have to have a thick skin if you are going to speak your mind on this board (thanks Ed, Jon, et al). Speaking of thick, what ever happened to Skiba? At least when he was around I wasn't the only one to get kicked in the balls on a regular basis. 152 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 19:44 Shak No problem, I'm here when you need a friend :-) 153 Shak       ID: 165532722       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 20:22 I know, Ed. This would be very boring without us. You are the yin to my yang. 154 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Jan 16, 2006, 22:16 Is that friend or fiend? Always a lot of shite talking here so you better have thick skin. I think all of this training actually helps me in my workcenter. My arguing/lawyering skillz have improved ten fold since I've been actively defending various positions on these message boards. I am also becoming a pro at finding loopholes in AF regulations because I spend so much time dealing with Constitutions/rules/by-laws issues relating to fantasy football and baseball. 155 RBP       ID: 49957288       Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 02:03 RBP Championship Week Lineup (Posting early-not likely to change) QB Roth RB Bettis RB Goings WR Randel-El WR Proehl TE Miller DEF/ST Steelers K Kasay 156 Shak       ID: 0100210       Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 09:06 In the spirit of going public, here is the lineup for the 1st place Shak II: QB - Hasselbeck RB - Alexander RB - Goings WR - DJax WR - Ward TE - Stevens PK - Reed DT - Seattle Going for the jugular. Will have to go with scrubs in the SB. 157 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 13:26 Just in case Noone received my lineup, I'll be gone this weekend. Delhomme Parker Ward JAckson R. Smith Miller Reed Denver Need to gain a few points on Shak, not likly, but who knows...good luck!! 158 Ted       ID: 59043126       Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 16:31 Just Helping Scott out so his wife don't have to open his e-mail for him. Big Ben Anderson Bettis Ward Jackson Putzier Reed Seattle Good Luck! 159 RBP       ID: 49957288       Tue, Jan 17, 2006, 18:19 If the Panthers win I'm done, can't win no matter how bad those in front of me screw up. Ed I did recieve your lineup. Pretty hard to play catchup in this format, we'll see if somebody outside of the top 5-6 teams can make a run at it. 160 RBP       ID: 241110115       Wed, Jan 18, 2006, 07:36 Got the inside scoop that I will have Eilson x2, Misawa, Kadena and Yokota on my EQUALS List. Might still be a TSgt slot to Elmendorf too, we'll see. Came to Osan to go to Alaska so things are looking up, back to back short tours have to help bump me up towards the top of thge list. Good day mate. 161 RBP       ID: 49957288       Thu, Jan 19, 2006, 17:58 We have an exercise kicking off in the near future and because of the position I'm going to fill I'll have no email access to my work account until late next week. Please send all lineups to my home email account, post them here or send to HHH. The worst news is that I won't be able to watch the games. Thanks and good luck. 162 harmonj       ID: 24645289       Fri, Jan 20, 2006, 09:28 delhomme goings Alexander s. smith Jurevicius H. Miller Kasay Seattle 164 Shak       ID: 0100210       Fri, Jan 20, 2006, 15:19 Won't be able to watch the games? Arrgghhh. Should be two great games. In order for my lesser team to move up in the standings, I need to hit both games right on. I'm going to favor the home teams in both games and save those players for the SB. If both visiting teams win, I'll have to start the waterboys and a few Carolina cheerleaders in the SB. Shak Daddy QB - Delhomme RB - Goings RB - Bettis RB - Parker WR - Jurevicius TE - Miller PK - Kasay DT - Steelers 165 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sat, Jan 21, 2006, 20:39 In 7 hours I'll be out of pocket, locked in the War Operations Center for 5-7 days. You will see no emails from me and thats why, I'll see you guys next weekend. 166 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 06:47 The joys of Osan! 167 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 06:54 I only need a lineup from Lil' Joefut. 168 Joe       ID: 41081515       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 10:49 Sorry so late guys and thanks for the lineups Buddy. QB Big Ben RB Goings RB Bettis WR D. Jackson WR Rod Smith TE miller D Panthers K Reed 169 Joe       ID: 41081515       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 15:58 gotta love Wilsson TD's when no one gets points hahaha 170 ted       ID: 350382215       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 16:39 you have my Def. wrong it should be Seattle 171 Joe       ID: 41081515       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 18:15 Lelie gets me 1 td all season then one today...it figures since I picked smith 172 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 18:21 This is the time of year that the Wilson's and Lelie's show up.... 173 ted       ID: 350382215       Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 20:47 Looks like Shaks team is to strong to catch unless Big Ben Breaks a leg next week......Good job Shak! 174 Shak       ID: 481029813       Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 12:08 ted, you've done a nice job of putting some space between you and the pack. It will be tough for you to catch me because we have the same players remaining except for the QBs and I don't think Hasselbeck will outscore Ben by 37 points. I think Skiba has a decent chance at catching Ted even though he is 38 points back. He still has Alexander and DJax available. This past week, that was worth 41.5 points. 175 Shak       ID: 481029813       Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 12:19 I sent Scott an email saying that in the future, I think any offensive player that scores a TD on defense or special teams should get credit for it. Part of the value of a Steve Smith or a Reggie Bush is their ability to make big plays on special teams. Troy Brown's ability to play defense is awesome. Why is this a value in the real world, but not in FF? Why can a real world coach take advantage of this, but we can't? Are there two seperate Steve Smiths? The one that plays on offense and a nameless one that plays STs? And how about when Flutie drop kicked the PAT? That was a special teams play, wasn't it? If my starting QB drop kicks a FG or PAT, I want the points! If my starting WR returns a kick for a TD I want the points! I think it's no different than a RB throwing a TD pass. I also don't believe the line that you can't double credit a TD. Don't we do that for TD passes? And who cares if it's double credited -- this is a FANTASY league! 176 JHHH       ID: 33647188       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 06:52 I agree, but that is not how the current LMS scoring rules are set. My other leagues have had provisions for that sort of scoring in the past. 177 Shak       ID: 481029813       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 13:23 I'm really surprised more people aren't voicing their opinion on this. With Reggie Bush joining the NFL this year, I think this needs to be addressed again. I just don't understand how Bush's real world value can be higher than his fantasy value. Kubiak can start him on STs and reap the benefit, but a FF owner can't? If someone can please explain how this makes any sense, I'll get off my soapbox -- but please don't tell me that's how its always been or you can't double credit a TD, because if you do, I think I may bust a blood vessel. 178 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 19:20 Shak you were the Commish in the LMS league this year and according to JHHH the rules say no? I guess the issue never came up? I think we've agreed that it should be changed, but like JHHH said it's not in the rules. I havn't actually looked myself. Not sure were the Bush comments are coming from, I know he's a good return man, but with the beating a RB takes in the NFL the last thing you need is him getting killed on a punt/kickoff return. Step down off the soap box. we agree with you..!! 179 Shak       ID: 165532722       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 22:27 I have checked the Sportsline website and I'm not sure that's offered as an option to turn on or off. I have emailed them for clarification. If it is an option, it will be put in the bylaws. 180 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 23:07 I've been biting my tongue because I don't think it's fair that one guy gets 2 teams in the playoff challenge and everyone else got 1. That allowed Shak to play 1 team 1 way, and the other team another direction. I think Scott made a mistake allowing that to happen. It's not fair, plan and simple. Had everyone been given the same opportunity, I said it was ok. Due to this format where it's important to make a decisive call on a player on a certain week. You got to utilize two stategies (one for each team), when everyone else used 1. In the big scheme off things it's no big deal, each of us only loses $10. But $120 for the winner is still $120, and money is still money. When $'s involved, things need to be fair. Shak has a 15% chance of winning, the rest of us have a 7.5% chance. Because I really didn't want to get into this stuff above, I held off on the Steve Smith thing. Fore my 2 cents on that, I think Smith should get credit for ST TD's. 181 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 23:10 It's an option on cbssportline.com, just go to setup, scoring system, scroll to the bottom, than Advanced Features: Add/Remove Categories, then under scoring categories it's misc. offense. 182 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 23:11 Just to clarify post 180, I'm not mad, just stating a point about what's fair and what's not. 183 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 05:02 Rump-ro shaggy!! Anyone got any Scooby-snacks. 184 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 05:05 I'm going to take a ring-side seat for this one, my heart say's to stay out of it...I got my popcorn and peanuts ready! 185 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 08:09 There won't be any boxing match. Like I said, I'm not mad at anyone. Shak asked Scottie to put in a 2nd team, so Shak didn't do anything wrong. I just think Scottie should have either said no, or asked the rest of us if we wanted to put in a 2nd team. 186 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 09:42 Come on man!! What's a man supposed to do between Football/Baseball? I was looking forward to a little cat-fight..spoilsport. Just kidding, I don't like controversy either, just needed something to read, while my popcorn is popping. 187 Shak       ID: 0100210       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 10:50 Something tells me this wouldn't have been an issue if I weren't in first place. For Ed's entertainment, I'll bite and argue my side. For anyone that has had two entries into a football pool or played two different parlays, it's true you have two chances to win, but you also have an equal chance to lose twice your money. I don't think I had any advantage (big or small) by having two teams. There was no colusion between the teams and my second team had no greater chance of winning than any of the other 12 teams. There were an infinite number of lineup options and to think that I had an advantage because I could cover two of those options is mathematically incorrect. The chances that one of my two teams would win was no different than the chances of any other two teams winning. If you can show me how I had an unfair advantage, I will forfeit my teams out of the competition. 188 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 12:21 Shak - "Something tells me this wouldn't have been an issue if I weren't in first place." For the record it was an issue with me before you were in first place...see post 97. I could show you an email that I sent to Scotty and Big Ed on Jan 14th as well. It is an unfair advantage (I think Trash does a pretty good job explaining it in post 180), but I really don't care now....but my $10 Paypal payment to Shak was going to be sent with the comment "I still beat you..." (assuming Shak 1 doesn't make up 47 points on me). Enjoying this yet Edneck? 189 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 12:32 Shak, I don't think your looking at this fairly. If this was someone else with two teams and they were in first, I think you'd be saying the same thing as me. Here is the only fact that matters. Shak has a 15% chance of winning (2 in 13), the rest of us have a 7.5% chance (1 in 13). Can I enter two teams in LMSCL as long as I don't make trades between them? How fair would that be? If you take a step back from the defensive posture you'll see that 2 teams ain't fair. 190 Shak       ID: 481029813       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 15:45 Jon, I'm well aware of post #97 where you ask if both teams are mine or does one belong to a friend/family member. I guess I could have nipped this in the bud right there and then and said it was my wife's. I think everyone would have been cool with that, but then again, who knows with this crowd. The next time you bring it up (post #125) you seem to be good with it as you mention at least one is guaranteed to lose. Buddy also makes a joke about it (#119 and #150) saying I'll lose anyway. Now that I have a hammer lock on 1st, the objections are a little more heated and serious. Coincidence, Jon? Buddy? As far as looking at it fairly, I believe I am looking at it fairly. I may have had a 15% chance of winning it, but isnt' that the same odds that either Ed and Ted had of winning it (their superior football acumen notwithstanding)? Didn't I also risk twice as much money as anyone else? As for why it wasn't announced publicly, you'll have to take that up with the commish. You asked if you could enter two teams in LMSCL if you don't trade between the two. You are comparing apples and oranges. In an FFL, there is constant interaction between the teams, whether it be drafting players, bidding on FAs, or even competing week to week. If you had asked me the same question about Survivor, I probably wouldn't have a problem with it as long as you weren't drafting back to back. If you really think I have an unfair advantage, I will set up a football pool for us (me and you) next year. You can enter three teams and I will enter one. We will ante up $100 per team and let the winner take all. I know you have a 3 to 1 advantage, but I don't think that's unfair since you'll be putting in three times more money. Would that be fair? Do you think sports bookies only allow one parlay entry per bettor per week because if they entered more it would increase their chance of winning? I think not! This is the bottom line: I will acknowledge I had twice as much chance to win with two teams. That is not an unfair advantage. I risked twice as much money. Neither team had an advantage over any other team entered. Can we agree on that? 191 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 16:34 OK...so using your logic. Next year, someone could start 9 teams, risk $90, play a wide array of starting lineups, and be virtually guaranteed to take everyone's money. I was never "good with" you playing two teams, but Scotty asked me not to call you out. My comments to Scotty were not as nice as they have been up until this point...and this was prior to Week 2, not after. Sad thing is this isn't about the money to me, but it must be for you....because what you did was WEAK. This isn't about the money for more than just me...Joefut didn't even collect his winnings last year he asked us to donate the money to the Tsunami Relief Effort. I sent mine to the Red Cross...did you? For me it's about the competition (among friends (and friends of friends))...you alienated yourself on this one dude. Don't give Buddy and me a hard time. By starting two teams you basically said "I'm willing to lose." At least the rest of us played to win... This isn't a bookie shop...this is a league(among friends (and friends of friends)). A league in which you apparently felt like you needed an edge. Why did you need an advantage? Haven't won anything lately? Man up and tell us WHY IN THE WORLD YOU WOULD EVEN CONSIDER DOING THIS...because it was really, really WEAK. I'll admit my defeat the great and wise Shak, the finder of loopholes, the man so rolling in funds he was willing to risk a whole extra $10...you beat me, oh but guess what, I still beat you. WEAK... 192 Shak       ID: 481029813       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 17:22 Jon, I think you need to take a deep breath. I don't know why you feel I am giving you and Buddy "a hard time." Who is attacking whom? Isn't it you two that are accusing me of cheating? How am I supposed to react? If you entered nine teams next year, you would have nine times the chance to win. The variations involved with multiple lineups makes it impossible to corner the market and guarantee yourself winning. I'm really sorry you feel that entering two teams was was weak. Is it weak when people buy more than one lottery ticket? Are they gaining an advantage on those that only buy one? I played twice to double my pleasure, much like I do during the football season by playing in more than one FFL. I wasn't trying to corner the market and ensure myself of winning or losing. Anyway, Jon (Buddy and anyone else that feels I cheated), you have my humble apologies. I never realized that playing two teams would upset anyone. I never looked at it as gaining an upperhand on anyone and I'm sure Scott felt the same -- I'm sure he would not let me cheat anyone out of their money. This probably won't make you or Buddy feel any better, but since you feel I played unfairly, I encourage you and anyone else that feels I had an unfair advantage by finding a loophole, to donate their money to the charity of their choice or just pocket their money. In fact, since I am in it for the competition and you have effectively rained on my parade by calling me out, I don't want to take anyone's money. If I manage to win, please do what you want with your money -- I don't want it. 193 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 17:25 Not sure why and how Ed and Ted got brought into the debate? Theodore Bryon Leonhart is his own man and not once, not once asked me who I was playing or tried to play off each other? I play to win and he gets no favors, just like everyone else Ted plays his own game. I don't want this to get blown out of proportion and Shak take his game elsewhere, I enjoy playing with him. I would normally voice my opinion, but I don't have a major problem giving my $10 dollars away. 194 Shak       ID: 481029813       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 17:30 Ed, I apologize for dragging you and Ted into this. I was merely trying to inject humor into something that has spun completely out of control. BTW, being born and raised in Hawaii and having served most of my AF career in the Far East and SE Asia, the tsunami struck home and I gladly donated $10 and then some to the relief fund. Thanks for asking. 195 Shak       ID: 481029813       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 17:31 I just love it when people that don't even know you question your integrity! 196 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 17:45 Not a problem. I will inject a little sanity into this problem. The whole idea of playing two teams is probably not a cool thing to do..lesson learned. I had a raised eyebrow when I saw it, but didn't feel it was a major advantage..odds were just increased of scoring better with at least one of the teams. I normally can beat at least three Shak teams. I honestly don't think before this started he thought playing a extra team would be a problem or a advantage, but there clearly is a odds increase of winning. It's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned. 197 ted       ID: 350382215       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 18:58 Come on Shak if i took the Edneck advice i would be down at the bottom.Only time we hook up is when you mess with the family.Ask Jon the Edneck could of let me win in the ssffl to make the playoffs but he put a spanking on my team.If it wasn't for Alexander,Watson on week 2 i could be at the top so i don't have a problem with his two teams just next time everybody should play 1 team. 198 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 19:18 Don't make me come all the way too Kentucky and knockout that one good tooth you got left. Garanteed corn-on-the-cob won't be served at the Tedneck house...He He! Go UK!! 199 Shak       ID: 1911172611       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 19:42 I'd like to put this to bed, but I'm not sure what the lesson learned is. Is it that I had an unfair advantage by having two teams or is it that no one else knew they had the option to enter two? If Scott had announced that everyone could enter two, would that have made everyone happy? Or maybe the lesson is that Shak is a weasel and will look for any loophole to gain an advantage over superior players? 200 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 19:57 The lesson learned was people don't like the idea of two teams being played, nothing more then that. Weasel, i think you love the fantasy game, you have a vast knowledge of all sports, so any ribbing about beating you is all in fun, I know it's hard not to take the insults as a attack on your character/integrity, I don't have a problem with you on any of those traits. Take the winnings and enjoy the victory!! 201 ted       ID: 350382215       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 20:00 Hey Bro! Looks like i'm coming over around Late April or May have the can corn ready. Shak! Weasel sounds good the Leonharts are superior players. 202 Edneck       ID: 30039613       Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 20:10 Good news!! Let me know the exact dates. Tell these boys something they don't already know Ted. Peace, JHHH and Buddy are always causing trouble?:-) 203 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 01:15 Shak, if you look at my previous posts, I went out of my way to be nice about bringing this up. I never questioned your integrity, if you feel something I said did then I can assure you that it was taken in the wrong context. I think your integrity is rock solid. I've stated my case, so I don't know why it's still unclear as to what I'm saying. My point is simple: You shouldn't have entered two teams and Scottie shouldn't have let you. I think with as much fantasy sports as you and Scottie play that you guys should have known that 2 teams would raise some eyebrows. If Scottie had simply brought it to everyone's attention before the playoffs started, and we all could of had the opportunity to play multiple teams, then I'd say that was fair. Like I said earlier, I'm not mad at anyone. Just bringing up what I feel is a valid point. I think if you polled the 12 team owners and asked them to say whether it was fair or unfair you'd see that a majority feel the same why as Jon and I. I'll continue to play with all of you guys, there are no hard feelings on my part. Once Scottie is back from his war center isolation we can get his 2 cents. Either way I think we all learned something. 204 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 06:25 OK, I am back online. I will take awhile to read all of the posts, all 203 of them!, and it looks like the usual. The bickering is cool to read because I haven't been part of it!! In the few posts I have read, I don't think Shak should have two teams. If he wanted to pick with two strategies, he should have named one team that was for the money and the one that a strategy. Shak you have increased your odds of winning by double. This isn't about money as we all know. We should all have an equal chance of winning with one strategy. Ok, now on to looking at the baseball page!! 205 Shak the weak weasel       ID: 481029813       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 10:57 Buddy and Mike, I respect your opinion and I'm fine with it, but I'm still a bit taken back by the personal attacks on my integrity when I believe I did absolutely nothing wrong. It's a matter of habit for me to play double. When I go to the casino, I like to play two hands of blackjack. Does that increase my odds of winning? No. When I play on-line poker, I'll play two games at once. It was my idea to have two teams in survivor -- to double our pleasure. I'm not comparing those to what happened here, I'm just trying to explain my thought process. It's become second nature for me. I gamble a lot (too much probably) and I study odds and I can tell you that I did not gain an unfair advantage. When I asked Scotty if I could play two teams, it was not because I wanted to have an unfair advantage, it's because it's become a habit and I knew that the odds would be the same for both. I could have easily lost twice as much money as anyone else. I just asked the question without explaining my thinking and Scotty agreed. I think it's a bit extreme to call that "weak" and call me the "finder of loopholes". I agree that everyone should have had the same opportunity. In all honesty, I think that is the lesson learned. I see no harm in everyone being allowed to enter two teams, if they'd like. What's the harm in that? 206 Edneck Weasel Hunter       ID: 30039613       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 11:03 I'm good at trapping Beaver also. Shak, Scotty you have any openings in any of your Ulimate baseball leagues? 207 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 11:55 Shak, look dude, I've gone out of my way to be cool about this. When you say: "Buddy and Mike, I respect your opinion and I'm fine with it, but I'm still a bit taken back by the personal attacks on my integrity when I believe I did absolutely nothing wrong." I've never attacked you personaly about your integrity. So quit saying it. I never called you any names or any of the other b.s. Your rationale for playing two teams is fine. I could care less WHY you did it. I've taken issue with two things: 1. That you asked and played two teams without saying to Scottie "Why don't you see if the other guys want to play more than 1 team". 2. That Scottie didn't say "Mmmmm, since I'm letting Shak play two teams, maybe I should offer that to everyone else". Those 2 things obviuosly did not happen. Since you guys have both played fantasy sports for a long time, they SHOULD have crossed your minds. If you can't go back and read these posts you'll realize I never questioned your integrity or anything like that. Since you have chose to play a fantasy sport game with the rest of us, we have every right to speak up if we feel someone has done something unfairly. That's not questioning your integrity. That's stating our opinion on the fairness of an issue in a fantasy sports game. Huge difference. For the record, here are the facts: Me (several posts), Jon (several posts), Mike (Post 204), and Ed (post 196) have all stated that two teams wasn't fair. No one has come to your defense and said it was fair. When Scottie gets back he'll probably justify it, but it's 4 to 1 that says it wasn't fair. 208 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 13:18 Buddy, I guess I should have been more specific, but I was hoping you could read between the lines. I take great offense to JON calling me out on my integrity. I don't see him asking anyone else if they had paid last year's entry fee to the Tsunami Relief Fund. I thought I had explained myself over and over my thinking was not to find a loophole to ensure I beat everyone. I don't appreciate anyone saying I need to resort to cheating to win a couple of bucks. I'm not that hard up for money. As far as the two things you take issue with, in hindsight I probably could have told Scott that he needed to tell everyone else that we are allowed to enter two teams. At the time, it never occurred to me that no one else would ask. My apologies for not thinking it through. Finally, just because four people say it wasn't fair, doesn't make it a fact. I acknowledge that since others were unaware they had the option, that is unfortunate and maybe considered unfair, but my playing two independent teams did not cause an UNFAIR advantage -- it just merely doubled my chance to win. That is not an UNFAIR advantage. It's no diffent than if we held our own lottery and I bought an extra ticket. Like I said before, it was always about the entertainment and the competetion. Since that has effectively been ruined, I will not accept anyone's money if I win. 209 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 14:52 Shak - "my playing two independent teams did not cause an UNFAIR advantage -- it just merely doubled my chance to win. That is not an UNFAIR advantage." Hello? Anyone home? 210 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:04 Jon, I know this is a complex mathematical principle, but try to follow along. If you and I had a football pool and you had two entries and I had one and we paid $100 per entry, does that give you an unfair advantage? You have a 2 to 1 advantage, but you are wagering $200 to win $100. Is that an unfair advantage? It changes the odds, but it's not an unfair advantage. I can't explain it any simpler than that. I am home and I have a basic understanding of odds. Do you? 211 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:09 I acknowledge that since others were unaware they had the option, that is unfortunate and maybe considered unfair, but my playing two independent teams did not cause an UNFAIR advantage -- it just merely doubled my chance to win. I would have to say the same thing as Jon. You have doubled your chances. I have often thought about running two teams with two different strategies. Taking players you think are going to score big and advancing or taking a weaker team picking the losers each week so you have a full lineup at the end. I really don't think that anyone is questioning your integrity Jim, just the fact that it is an unfair advantage. Playing two hands always increases your odds. 212 Shak       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:21 That's an interesting thought, Mike. Does playing two hands of blackjack increase your odds of winning at a casino? I'd like to hear your thoughts on that. Each of my teams had a 1 out of 13 chance of winning. Is that not a fact? Where is the unfair advantage? 213 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:34 I got to hand it to you...you are never wrong. Let me spell this out for you, this is not the lottery, this is a L E A G U E. One man, one entry in all leagues I've played in. This is not a pool, not a lottery, not blackjack, not poker...those things belong in another category. This is a L E A G U E. No one else was given the opportunity to play two teams...you weaseled one by us. You increased your odds of winning our L E A G U E. You can talk in circles all you want. Everyone that has chimed in has said politely said it was WEAK. But you must be right...I probably just don't know what I'm talking about. You have been wrong about at least one thing this year though....Hook'em! I'm ready for more talking in circles...maybe eventually you can even justify it to yourself, but I don't think you'll sway us. 214 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:41 Bottom line, Jon, is you don't have to cry about it anymore because you can keep your precious $10. I never intended to upset you so greatly. Accept my humble apologies. 215 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:44 Hey I'm no gambling expert and I don't have a degree in statistics...but in blackjack do you get to select your cards. With this hand I'll play one set of cards and with this other hand I'll play another set of cards...it's random, right? In this league, didn't we actually have to select our players? Or were our players given to us by a dealer in after being run through a shuffling machine? You got to use two strategies, two sets of players...everyone else got one. This was not blackjack...Ding! Try again. 216 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:47 Each of my teams had a 1 out of 13 chance of winning. Is that not a fact? Where is the unfair advantage? You said it right there. EACH of your teams had a 1 - 13 chance of winning. We all had a chance of 1 - 13 of winning. You had a 2 - 13 chance. How is that not an advantage? You doubled your chances of winning. This isn't about money, just bragging rights. We all should have had an equal chance at winning or strategies, just like the Survivor league this year. You are putting up double the money, but you aren't betting against the house, just the rest of us. 217 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:52 Oh sorry about that...I missed your post by 3 minutes because I was having to continuously type through teardrops that had pooled onto my keyboard. My $10 will go to the winner. 218 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 15:56 For the sake of trying to educate you, I will tell you that you can play two hands of blackjack vs. the dealer and play two different strategies. No, you can't pick your cards, but you can decide to stand on 15 with one hand vs. a the dealer's face card and draw to a 15 with the other hand. In that instance, it is very similar. The reason why there was no mathematical advantage to playing two teams in this format is because there were probably close to a million options with the players and formations. And what exactly would be the difference between my playing one team and my buddy playing a different team with a different strategy? What if I told him I think Indy and Seattle are going to the SB and he said he thinks it's going to be Pitt and Carolina? The difference is that instead of being my buddy, it's myself? The odds are the same -- 1 out of 13. Where's the unfair advantage? Again, we don't have to kick this dead horse because I'm know it's futile. I know we will never see eye to eye because you can't get beyond our differences from last year when you ridiculed my drafting strategy and I stood up for myself. I will acknowledge your victory over me and forfeit myself out of the competition. Please be happy with my bowing down to you and please let it go already. 219 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:00 Mike, if it's just bragging rights, I can see your point and then I am completely wrong. Of course, if it was for bragging rights, why did we pay $10? I know it's a moot point that has been carried way way too far. This just isn't fun anymore and I have agreed to disqualify myself. Isn't that enough for you guys? Now Jon doesn't want me to disqualify myself? He wants to pay me so that he can insult my integrity some more? No thanks! 220 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:02 The odds are the same -- 1 out of 13. Where's the unfair advantage? We all had a chance of 1 - 13 of winning. You had a 2 - 13 chance. How is that not an advantage? You doubled your chances of winning. I can copy and paste all day long, but if you can logically dispute the odds of 1 vs 13 compared to 2 vs 13, I would entertain the thought, but otherwise, it is an unfair advantage. Not trying to be funny, just objective. I have been out of it for awhile, so you will all get my rantings pent up for the past 4 months:o) 221 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:07 Mike, I doubled my chance by winning by paying twice as much as everyone else. I paid $20 to win $120 while everyone else paid $10. I doubled my chance, but the odds were the same. There was no collusion between the teams. Oh what the hell -- I'm tired of explaining the odds. You guys WIN!! I forfeit!! Just tell me where to send my $20!! 222 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:20 No worries. In placing two teams, you have doubled the odds of winning with the cost doubling. It is just that we never got the option of that. 223 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:23 Hey Jonny, once you're done bashing my integrity, you can lead a task force to find out if there are any low lifes that weaseled out of paying the TRF last year. Maybe you can get guys to rat each other out. Or maybe I'm the only one that you don't trust. Why do you hate me so?? Do tell. 224 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:41 What I wouldn't give to see Ed giggling his ass off over this! Was it high entertainment, Ed? Jon and I could definitely make better TV than Kornheiser and Wilbon. People would tune in by the thousands to see me get bashed daily. And on days that Jon's not around, Ed could step right in. We'd make a fortune. 225 RBP       ID: 39047214       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:44 Yikes! I'm home for the war, still undressing out of MOPP 4 as I type. I accept full responsibility for allowing Jim to have to teams. Of that I plead guilty. At the time I could honestly care less how many teams you enter and I told him to go ahead (the teams are independant, IMO he does not have an advantage and explaining why I think that way would hurt my head). Should have I offered it out to everybody? Of course I should have. I take all the blame and ask forgiveness. As a show of good faith I'm not offering, I'm insisting that I refund everybody's money and I will pay the winner out of pocket. It's not really that important to me (the money). Now everything after that fact (the bickering) is on you all. I'm not going to read the back and forth garbage that has preceded my message. Bottom line: When Jim asked to enter a second team I should have thought it through. I should have offered it across the board. I would wager that a few of you would have played two teams, but not all (I obviously didn't). I look at the playoff challenge as an extension of the NFL season that allows junkies like us to keep playing the game we love. I'm sorry I screwed it up for you guys. Shak is not to blame, I am. Life is short, let's agree to disagree and let it go. 226 RBP       ID: 39047214       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:46 I admit I did not send $10 to the TRF. 227 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 16:51 Sniff, sniff. I'll admit it -- I lied. Sniff, sniff. I didn't send my money in either. Sniff, sniff. I just didn't want Jon to get the upper hand on me again. Sniff, sniff. I'm so ashamed that I couldn't admit the truth without Scotty stepping forward first. I AM a low life weasel. I'm so ashamed. Sniff, sniff. Pass me a tissue, Ed. 228 Ednecks       ID: 30039613       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:09 You guys are cracking me up, I'll admit i've enjoyed every post. Kind of sick, but I found it highly entertaining. My fee goes to Shak on the academy performance if for no other reason then he scored more points. I've known Jon for many years and i can say I've never seen him this mouthy..quite refreshing!! Please continue!! I don't mind the tears!! 229 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:31 Ed, it's all me. I have a way of bringing out a vile hatred in people. I guess I don't mind being the villain over the internet -- but in person, I'm the most fun-loving, happy-go-lucky kind of guy that avoids confrontation at all costs. Your typical spine-less wimp, who backs down whenever anyone raises their voice. I just get to act out my fantasies over the internet. Hopefully Jon never finds out where I live! 230 ted       ID: 350382215       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:45 Damn! You guys got me feeling sorry for the Weasel. I blame Scott's e-mail. 231 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:50 Are you sure that was really Scott? Could it have been the sinister weasel instead?? 232 Ednecks       ID: 30039613       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:55 Shak, it would never seem as vile/threating if we were in the club talking about this over a few beers. Beleive me Jon is a gentle/kind person as I beleive you are. Now the people that really know me, think I'm a arse in person too, so don't feel bad!! 233 Ednecks       ID: 30039613       Thu, Jan 26, 2006, 17:59 Shut it Ted!! Scotty did use a few big words in his post..maybe opened a few more brain cells while sweating it out in his Chemical gear? 234 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 03:37 Shak, in ref to post 221, you can send your $ to me at: 13 Auston Ct, Cabot AR, 72023 I'll take it all day! So it looks like we can blame all of this on Scottie. Damn sheet metal losers. He's worse than Fry, Ladson, Friske, and Skiba combined! 235 RBP       ID: 39047214       Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 03:41 Just woke up from my my hibernation. We slept in the War Operations Center from Sunday to Friday, not real fun. Saw some neat things, got screamed at by my Major then he followed that up by promoting me into a better position with more responsibility, real wierd turn of events. Not real shocked that we ended up having a bruhaha over the two teams vs one team fiasco. I figured Shak would just lose x2 lol. Really odd to see HHH get fired up because I know him so well and it seems out of character for him. Now I expect it out of Ed but for once he steered cleared of the festivities but I can just see him on the sidelines stuffing buttered popcorn into his pie hole watching the action back and forth between Buddy, HHH and Shak II. So close to the action but showed great restraint not to mix it up. If you think about it the reason we are in so many leagues together (the whole of us) is because we as owners "Bring it". I like to think that in every league I'm in I "bring it" and give all I have. I don't win them all but I give it all. You guys are exactly the same way. The reasons we argue over this crap is because everybody is so competitive, bunch of fantasy football Alpha males (does not include Skiba) are bound to scrap on occasion, it's inevitable. The weak are quickly eliminated and showing weakness is about as bad as losing. Losing an argument is almost as bad as losing a game. You guys kick @ss, even you Ed :-) 236 TrashHaulers       ID: 460511418       Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 10:05 Well put RBP. Now stop trying to kiss all our asses so that we'll make good trades with you. I concur, Skiba is pretty much a girl. He's probably giving one of his troops a manicure as I type this. 237 Ednecks       ID: 30039613       Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 12:06 Yep, That was nicely said, except the "even you Ed statement. He knows I brighten up his sad days in Korea. Scotty alone in a "Me love you long time G.I." world is just asking for trouble. I'll concur also that Skiba has a Camel Toe and wears a skirt!! 238 Shak       ID: 1911172611       Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 20:00 All this lovey dovey crap is making me puke! I liked it better when I was being attacked from all sides! Quick, someone insult me! Remind me again how I was so stupid to think USC could beat Texas. Call me a stupid, good-for-nothing weasel. I need help!! Won't someone help meeeee????? 239 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 03:47 How do you think I felt for the past 4 months? I didn't have any hatred being sent my way!! "Camel toe and wears a skirt?" The thought that I do look good in anything is now ruined. Scotty, I may not have won much in the past. My only win is the Survivor league last year. I made a decent showing this year in Survivor with all of the broke players I had. In the contract league, I took a LAST place team and took it to the big dance the very next year, lost to you of course, but that just meant you lost more money than I did!! My team in that league went from TWO top ten RB's and a serious hopeful (Barlow) to having to scramble to find Skip Hicks as my only starting RB. Still made the playoffs in which I had to play a division with Ed who looked like he was going to run away with everything. My first year in baseball was terrible. The past two years, I have started the season out in 1st place and didn't lose that position until the last three weeks of the season. Lost out of the playoffs in both of those years. Lets see in those past two years, I have been PCS'd to Iceland where my internet connection was dial-up and didn't work more often than it did. I just spent 4 months in sandland working 12's six on one off and no time for research. In between there, I spent 6 months on mids getting about 5 hours of sleep a day. My research time was about 30 minutes prior to kickoff or first pitch. I looked for red crosses and went from there. I will try to have a more active trading season this year and hope to not fail in the run up to the playoffs. You should be glad that you don't consider me a Alpha male because now that I am going to concentrate more time and effort, what on the earth is going to stop me from taking it all in every sport?? You have been warned!! 240 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 05:07 You are an Alpha "Female", not not an Alpha Male. Sheesh do I need to spell it out for you? Subtle jokes are better IMO. 241 Ednecks       ID: 30039613       Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 09:07 Scotty stop picking on Mike that's my job! "Alpha Female" now thats funny. We missed you mike..we only had Shak (weasel) to beat on and ridicule. 242 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 10:07 Ya'll seen this yet? Pretty fun..turn your speakers on. http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927 243 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Sat, Jan 28, 2006, 15:21 Ok, I thought you were calling me out Scott!! BUTTMUNCH!!! 244 RBP       ID: 49957288       Sun, Jan 29, 2006, 19:50 Hey Mike do you remember when we were calling Travis "Tracy". Remember how mad he got! Not sure why that thought popped into my head but it was hilarious. Scott 245 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 15:29 Skiba, I hope you own some of the stocks you are killing us with in the Investor Simulator!!! Up 70% in 7 months! You are a stock picking fool...I bought VPHM in real life based off of watching it run up for you. Thanks! I owe you lunch for that one. 246 RBP       ID: 39047214       Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 16:55 JHHH what was that site again, I'm sure I'm still in last. I think I gave him VPHM by the way. 247 RBP       ID: 39047214       Mon, Jan 30, 2006, 16:55 IIRC I sold early and he held. How is GOOG doing nowadays? 248 JHHH       ID: 2204499       Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 07:20 http://simulator.investopedia.com/ Yes...you are still in last, but did you learn anything? That's all that matters. GOOG is $425 nowadays...it's been as high as $480. It reports earnings today... 249 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 13:56 I actually bought some VPHM for $7.80 and today it is trading at $23.12. I didn't invest any real big money into it because I am still WAY too much of a rookie to attempt day trading and shorting. I am still almost up 200%. This makes up for my IDNX I finally sold. Figures two weeks after I sell, had the stock for 4 years, they merge with VISG. The management of IDNX was TERRIBLE. I also bought some SCMR with the money left over from the IDNX sale. Not much actually $200, but they are making me money as well. Bought at $4.86 and now are trading at $4.93. Not huge, but it is better than seeing IDNX losing a few pennies each day. I am now actually ahead by a few hundred overall. The stocks I have picked in the game are actually on the website, Zach's. They have the #1 picks page and I went from there. I must admit, I did a good amount of research on the stocks before I invested real money in them, but got the tips from the site. For those of you who want to know, VPHM is a medical company that actually tried to get a patent on the cure for the common cold. This was 2002 and they were not approved, obviously. However, if this company has the balls to do this, they must have something close. I thought this was an impressive feat, so I invested money. I didn't do it because of that alone, I do like what they are doing with the company. Anyone in management that says we will take our profits right now and pay off our projected debt for 2009 early, is good with me. Invest back into the company is always good for the them and the investor. I didn't mean to ramble on, but Scotty you are finally not back in last. You are only $7,000 back from breaking even. Not a bad feat when you lose 40% of you port in one day!! That was terrible. Now how is the football thing working? Is Shak having two teams? Where do I send the money to? I need to know how to set my lineup. I can't make the same picks as Jim or he will still beat me. Do or die as the say, but I have to make picks opposite if Jim to have any hope of winning this thing. Long shot anyway, but I do have a slew of good players to pick from, but so does he. Let me know. 250 Shak the weasel       ID: 0100210       Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 15:17 I'm out. 251 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 16:42 One? Both? C'Mon Jim, you can't shake that easy!! 252 RBP       ID: 49957288       Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 18:13 I'm still submitting my lineup, refuse to go down without a fight. The pool of players I can pick from that thinned out because I played most of the Steelers. Go Seahawks???? I'm picking the Stillers...35-31 and a close game regardless of the score. 253 Ednecks       ID: 30039613       Tue, Jan 31, 2006, 20:34 Not sure why I'm bothering but here it is: BigBen Bettis Wilson Randle El Engram Stevens Brown Seahawks 254 RBP       ID: 49957288       Wed, Feb 01, 2006, 01:11 I know I have Alexander and Big Ben left, beyond that I'm FUBAR. 255 Steve       ID: 450131617       Thu, Feb 02, 2006, 17:28 Lineup: Ben Parker Ward Wilson Engram Stevens Steelers None Available 256 ted       ID: 350382215       Thu, Feb 02, 2006, 21:56 Ted's lineup: Hasselbeck Parker Engram Randle El Wilson Stevens Reed Steelers 257 Joe       ID: 4652283       Sat, Feb 04, 2006, 02:33 Hey guys, been busy for a while here...sucks, anyway, did I miss anything? 258 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Sat, Feb 04, 2006, 03:12 Not much!! The usual integrity questions, accusations of cheating, the usual. Hasselbeck Alexander D. Jackson Engram Randle El Stevens Brown Seattle D 259 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sat, Feb 04, 2006, 08:39 LOL, yeah, the usual. 260 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 06:31 Excel isn't letting me open the last weeks sheet at home (go figure). Here is the lineup for Jason Barker. I'll post them all here as I get them. Quarterback Matt Hassleback (Sea) Running Backs Shaun Alexander (Sea) Willie Parker (Pit) Wide Receivers Darrell Jackson (Sea) Hines Ward (Pit) Tight End Jerramy Stevens (Sea) Kicker Jeff Reed (Pit) Defense Pittsburgh 261 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 06:32 HHH Hasselbeck Bettis C. Wilson El D. Jackson Stevens Seahawks Reed 262 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 06:40 My lineup is fuzzy because I don't honestly know who I have left. QB? I only have one option, I think it's Big Ben. Alexander (I know I saved him) Jackson (Not sure) Engram (Not sure) Jurevicius? ( I know I haven't used hime) Stevens (I know he's available) Brown (thinking i dont have a kicker option) Seatle D Can somebody tell me what options I have, I know it's limited, I used most of the Steelers except Wilson. 263 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 06:42 Buddy Buddy’s line-up Hasslebeck Bettis Morris C. Wilson DJ Hackett Stevens Brown Seahawks 264 Joe       ID: 41081515       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 10:17 Hassleback Alexander engram jurevicius Randle El stevens steelers Brown 265 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 11:09 I can't remember the point totals and don't have the e-mails left. Can anyone post them? I need to see who needs to have a good game for me and bad for those ahead of me. 266 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 12:43 Shak II 333 Ted L. 296.5 Skiba 258.5 RBP 250.5 JHHH 245 Ed L. 245 Joe 243 Grande 242.5 STB 234.5 Buddy 231.5 Barker 216 Shak 198 Harmon 192 267 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 12:47 RBP, you used Ben, Bettis, Parker, Ward, El, Miller, Brown, Reed, and the Steelers already. You'll have to use a Seahawk heavy line-up, you have no kicker, and Hayes/Staley (RB) and (Wilson) are the only Steelers you really have left. 268 RBP       ID: 39047214       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 16:50 Hass Alexander Jackson Engram Jurevicius Stevens No Kicker SeaSquwacks D 269 Joe       ID: 41081515       Sun, Feb 05, 2006, 22:55 Just wanted a good game not ruined by the refs.... Stealers (not a typo) needed to get 12 to really win. How the hell do the refs sleep at night. The MVP......................."ref's". BS PI in the first period is minus 7 for the seahawks. Big ben getting that TD. He tucked the ball, fell down then put the ball out after he was down....weak man. The white of his wrist band was mistaken for the white of the ball. There is a good chance the steelers would have went for it on 4th down so they might have gotten a TD anyway. Or the bus would have fumbled again. How the hell do the refs give a QB a penalty for a tackle. The refs thought he was blocking???????? Idiots man. And no review after the "out of bounds pass" by Seattle. The worst they could have done is review it and get it wrong like they did the rest of the game. .. Not jealous that they won but I just wanted to watch a good game...., 270 TrashHaulers       ID: 57062619       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 13:30 I'd have to agree, a few blown calls. Not surprised they didn't overturn the Ben TD, but you'd think they'd be able to get it right with all the technology we have. Oh well, not the first important game to have some blown calls, and it's in the record books now. I've watched some far worse SB's, so this one wasn't too bad. It kept me interested until the end anyhow. Seattle lost it with some bad play calling as well. My favorite play was Randle El's pass, wow, right on the $. Not bad for coming in and throwing cold. 271 Superclydes       ID: 63402814       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 17:07 I must admit that the Ben TD shouldn't have been. Howvever, I don't belive that the evidence that I saw could say otherwise conclusively. Good call based on the rules. Now on to more important things. Who won or should have won? I didn't have a particularly good showing, but the Randel El pass should have done me good and the Stevens TD done me well. I was down quite a bit, but would be interested in the outcome. It sounds like we need a constitution for the playoff challenge just like need them for a friendly bet nowadays. 272 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 19:31 OK, let me scrub the sheets and before I do I have a dilemna. I already said I'd refund all of your money and half of teh guys submitted lineups this week, some didn't. Shak pulled out, I think. Let me sort the scores and see what makes sense. I'm just sorry that this got out of hand. 273 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 19:55 I'm fired. I don't even have the excel spreadsheet saved on my computer at work and excel won't work on my computer at home. I have 100% goat roped this post season challenege, I apolagize. All money will be refunded as per message 225... "As a show of good faith I'm not offering, I'm insisting that I refund everybody's money and I will pay the winner out of pocket. It's not really that important to me (the money)." 274 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 20:07 PBP, I just sent the spreadsheet to your work addy. Don't be so hard on yourself. You do a fine job with all your leagues, survivor, playoff challenge, etc. You do need to invest in a zip drive and keep some files with you. Seems you always are at wherever your files, research, rosters, etc, aren't at. :-) This deal with Shak's two teams got ugly but sh*t happens, we all live and learn this way. Everyone can deal with whatever outcome you come up with. You have my $10 already, buy yourself a burger and coke on me or whatever, send it to whoever. I'll play again next year, I always enjoy it. 275 TrashHaulers       ID: 339320       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 20:08 ooops, meant RBP, not PBP in post 274. 276 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 20:15 I'll update the sheet and send it out, ASAP. 277 RBP       ID: 49957288       Mon, Feb 06, 2006, 20:29 Working it. 278 Joe       ID: 1963078       Fri, Jul 07, 2006, 09:32 SOw what is going on this year????? 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