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Subject: Auction League Draft Discussion
Posted by: sarge33rd
- [2464896] Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:12
Starting positions are:
1 x QB
2 x RB
2 x WR
1 x TE
1 X Flex (Rb or WR)
1 x Flex (Wr or TE)
1 x K
1 x Def/ST (Whichever Def you start, you get that ST by default.)
6 x Bench of which only 5 positions will be filled via the draft. The 6th spot, is for a "reserve" spot in which a manager may place any player whose status is listed as doubtful or worse by nfl.com. This would then create an open position in which a manager may place a F/A if they desire to acquire one. Such an acquisition, will carry a salary of $5. Provided a player is dropped from the rolls completely (and thus returned to the F/A pool), and such a drop occurs prior to kickoff of the first game in week 6, then the dropping manager will receive salary cap relief equal to one-half the dropped players salary, rounded down. No relief is available once week 6 kicks-off.
If a manager has all 6 bench spots filled at the roster freeze of any given week, and that manager has not declared who to drop in this case, and the player occupying the 6th bench seat is no longer listed as doubtful or worse by nfl.com, then the commish will manually adjust the bench roster by dropping that 16th player into the F/A pool. In this fashion, no "offense" will be deemed to have occured and no penalty will be enforced. (Beyond potentially seeing a "star" player come off injury only to find them in the F/A pool and not on your roster.)
************************************************
OK...Time for Draft Room process and procedure discussion. Once we are ready to begin the draft (and yes, we will execute a 4 or 5 day "mock" beforehand so as to acclimate everyone) I will name 8 players to "the board", along with an opening bid. (Naming a player, autmatically means the naming manager is bidding $1 for that player, unless the naming manager indicates a higher initial bid. The ONLY exception to this is, upon filling your 15th slot, you are still eligible to name a player to "The Board" as a replacement for the player you just took off The Board. In that case and ONLY in that case, will said naming not be accompanied by a bid.
Pay attention to your available roster slots. Remember, we are requiring a 10 player starting lineup and you only have 5 bench slots to fill with backups. Illegal bids, will result in the offending manager suffering a $5 fine against their salary cap, for EACH offending bid.
Illegal Bids
Bidding on a WR for ex, when I have only 3 slots left to fill and have 3 positions not yet manned, none of which are WR's. For ex, I have no Kicker, No Def and No TE. I have otherwise got 7 starters bought and 5 bench slots filled by 2xRB, 2xWR and 1xQB. I then bid on another RB. If I win that RB, I cannot field a valid starting lineup, as with only 2 positions left to fill, I cannot occupy my 3 vacancies. This would have the impact then of
A) Negating my bid and
B) subjecting me to a reduction in my available salary cap of $5.
Submitting bids above and beyond your ability to honor.
For example, I have 1 spot left open, $14 in available salary cap space, and I bid $16 on a player.
This would have the negative affect then of
A) Negating my bid and
B) Reducing my now available salary cap from its previous $14 down to $9.
Pay VERY close attention if you are bidding on multiple players while you still have currently high bids out on other players. Once you have a "Current Offer" status on a player, those funds are no longer available to you unless and until you are outbid for that player.
If you submit a list of bids, the sum total of which put you above your available salary cap space, the list will be negated in reverse order of its creaition, until you come under your cap, suffering a $5 hit for each name removed from the list.
EX. I have $53 remaining with which to acquire 5 players. I submit the following, currently high bids on ea player:
RB ABC $14
RB BCD $16
QB EFG $15
WR XYZ $12
RB HIJ $9
This represents $66 in bids. Since HIJ is the lastlisted, he comes off first, I take a $5 hit, so I now have $48 available. Unfortunately, the other 4 players listed, add upto $57. XYZ now comes off the list, my funds drop $5 again to $43. Gee, too bad the 1st 3 guys add upto $45. Now EFG comes off, I take a 3rd $5 hit, reducing my available funds to $38. With outstanding bids now of $30, I have only $8 remaining, 3 slots to fill, and injury replacements to be concerned with.
Trust me, this can take you from being in "OK shape" to disastrous, in nothing flat. PAY ATTENTION to your bid totals. If you take no other advice I might offer, just believe this...someone else is paying attention to your bid totals.
The reason for the penalty being so seemingly harsh, is that as we all know and understand, draft strategy is a key part of any fantasy game. Submitting illegal bids, (bids which cannot be won), cause a major disruption to the course and flow of the drafting process, changes the strategies for all involved and basically screws up the league. Do any, let alone all 3 of those things, and I think we'd all agree that the penalty NEEDS to be severe.
Once a player is named to the board, that player is not "won" until there have been no bids submitted on them within an 8 hour timeframe.
EX: At noon, I list the initial 8 players, (please btw, note, and use this format)(bolding is done by typing [b] to start and [/b] to end the bolding. You simply use < and > in place of [ and ].)
Peyton Manning, QB Colts $1 sarge
L Tomlinson, RB Chargers $1 sarge
L Johnson, RB Chiefs $1 sarge
T Holt, WR Rams $1 sarge
A Boldin, WR Cardinals $1 sarge
A Gates, TE Chargers $1 sarge
S Alexander, RB Seahawks $1 sarge
T Owens, WR Cowgirls $1 sarge
Come 8pm that night, nobody else has bid...I get all 8 for a total of $8. :) (Yea, like that would ever happen.) At 12:15 Manning gets bid upon. His 8 hours starts over as of 12:15.
The clock will be suspended from 12 midnight central time, until 8 am central everyday. So if a player sits at 6 hours come midnight central time, then unless they are bid upon during the night (or within 2 hours (prior to 10 am central), they will be deemed "taken". Bids submitted during the clock suspended times will be honored and held accountable for validity. They will reset the 8 hour clock. The clock simply will not begin to count off again, until 8 am central time.
ANY MANAGER may call for a temporary clock stoppage at any time, if they are pressing the charge of an illegal bid. During these temporary suspensions, no bidding will be honored. Either myself as commish (or wiggs if he still cares to assist with the duties), will then investigate the allegation. Unless and until one or the other of us rules on the allegation, NO BIDDING WILL TAKE PLACE. The threads will get cluttered and difficult enough to follow, without submitting bids while we attempt to track back through 75 posts to determine the validity of an allegation. Once a ruling is issued, the clock stoppage will continue to be in place for 30 more minutes. This 30 minutes, is to allow the manager who was ruled against, to "appeal" in essence. Try and demonstrate that the charge and/or the ruling is in error. Failure to do so within the 30 minutes, means that the penalty is enforced, and the clock restarts. Notices by a manager of such a Temporary Stoppage shall take this (or a similar, easily identifiable format):
***********************************************
TEMPORARY STOPPAGE:
Manager XYZ has illegal bids, via posts 7, 17, 28 and 39 above.
***********************************************
To prevent any manager from using this as a "tool" to consider bidding on a player with only minutes left on their 8 hour run...
1 false claim will carry no penalty.
2 false claims, will result in a $3 fine against that managers salary cap.
3 false claims, will result in an additional $6 fine.
4, will mean an additional $12 fine.
5, is an additional $24 dollar fine. (yep, doubling with each additional false allegation.)
There is a grace on making a false claim, because I do not want to discourage managers from contesting something they believe to be wrong. I dont want to discourage everyone from "watching out" for violations. The reason the fines then double with with additional offense, if you are goofy enough to make 5 false claims of illegal bidding, then you are not mathematically bright enough to be in an auction league. I do not make that statement to be rude or judgemental. I am simply stating the truth. Auction leagues, absolutely require that you pay attention to your available monies. I do not know how to stress that enough, without making it destructively painful if you dont.
The clock will also be suspended Saturday evening from 6pm until Sunday 8 am, and again Sunday evening at 6 pm until Monday 8 am. The reason? To give some family down time. Our wives will have enough to rant about with our various live drafts, auction drafts, slow drafts and fast drafts on going, without our adding gasoline to thier already fiery tempers. This way, you can take her out to eat, and not worry about the clock expiring on that RB you were meaning to bid on before you got shanghied into this "evening together". :)
Thats about it for now I think. If I've neglected to mention something from last year, and it needs bringing up, then by all means do so. If you werent here last year, and even if you were, and you have a question, please ask it. If you vehemently disagree with something above...too bad. OK, not really. Tell me about and why. I'll listen, debate it, then we'll figure it out. |
| 1 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:21
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I'm on board with everything except for players being nominated by managers that have filled their roster spots, as that means someone could be listed that no one wants. My preference in that case is that bidding would then fall to the team that has the most spots open, since they would have nominated the fewest players to that point.
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| 2 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:25
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Oh...teams will start with $200 available salary cap dollars. This $200, is to cover initial player drafting, F/A salaries and any and all fines which may be imposed.
Only myself as commish or wiggs as assist, can name/declare aplayer as won via bidding. Once such a declaration takes place, then other managers have 15 minutes to contest the declaration by pointing out where an unmentioned bid was made. Lacking such a contesting post by some manager within the 15 minute time allowed, constitutes the declaration as final. (Yes, if 16 minutes later a valid, other bid ispointed out, I'm sorry. Its too late. Thats why only 2 of us can declare a bid as won, and why anyone can point out our error.) Also, it is truly helpful, if the bidding format I mentioned above is consistently practiced by all, throughout the entire process. Bolding the player name, and the bidder name, is quite helpful in tracking what is going on.
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| 3 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:26
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I have no objection to that Beezer, and in fact now that you mention it, I think thats what we did last year.
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| 4 | JTSERB
ID: 16611522
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:26
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Im ready to go Sarge.. you have been great in explaining everything.. This will be a great league
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| 5 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:32
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THX! :) Though are those hereabouts, who think I'm a terrible, terrible hard-a$$. lol (Not that I deny it btw.)
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| 6 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:58
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Is Eugene around and I didn't know it.
Sarge looks good with the modification that Beezer added.
That is what we did out toward the end last year.
And it works just fine.
Cliff
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| 7 | wolfer
ID: 323292620
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 22:59
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I'm also ready.
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| 8 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Thu, Jul 13, 2006, 23:23
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Sarge great job getting this set up. You are in fact the man.
I am definately willing to be your assistant commish like I was last season. For those of you that dont know I have done a few of these and I have a good handle on how they work. I apologize to all for not being a very active assistant, but my schedule is ridiculous right now. I do however print up alot of the discussions and read them while I am away. I would add my 2 cents where necessary, but Sarge has hit everything I could think of.
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| 9 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 00:15
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Oh, one more clarification needed to post 1 - if an owner wins a player that fills his last position, the owner that nominates the next player is the owner with the fewest filled positions that does not lead on the same number of running auctions as he has open positions.
This is to prevent the possibility of an owner getting more players than allowed if they win all of their current auctions and no one bids on the newly nominated player.
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| 10 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 08:03
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Good point Beezer.
I also (largely for the benefit of the new guys) wanted to mention a 3rd way in which a manager could find themselves submitting an illegal bid. We must draft 15 positions (10 starters and 5 bench), each of which will carry a minimum salary of $1. Using the initial list of 8 that I show above in the thread header, if you decided to bid-up 3 of those guys, so you post the following:
L Tomlinson, RB Chargers, $63 sarge
L Johnson, RB Chiefs $63 sarge
S Alexander, RB Seahawks $63 sarge
You now have a problem. 63 x 3 = 189. If you were to win all 3, that would leave you with 12 spots to fill and only $11 available. You absolutely MUST have at least $1 remaining for each remaining empty slot on your roster, or your bid will be deemed invalid, and the $5 fine imposed.
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| 11 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 08:43
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As if Sarge hasn't stressed it enough, you REALLY, REALLY have to pay attention to what is going on and watch the bids and numbers.
There are a couple of us just A*** enough that we tend to track every dang thing in the world goning on with the auction.
Of course, only way I know to ensure I don't get in trouble.
Cliff
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| 12 | FRICK
ID: 345202714
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 09:37
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Sounds good Sarge. I only have a couple of thoughts.
I'm pretty sure that the boards are on EST, so can we do everything in EST time? The clock could stop at 1 AM EST (Midnight CST), this just prevents confusion from changing time zones back and forth.
Also for the intial 8 players, I think we should have a different plan. A large part of an auction league strategy is when players are placed up to bid. We could either select 8 random managers. Or each of the managers who didn't make the play-offs last year and the new managers could nominate a player. Or the 4 managers who did make the play-offs could nominate 2 players each.
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| 13 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 10:02
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I was thinking about just using the rotoguru timestamp for the overnight clock suspensions. We can easily go with midnight (00:00) by rotoguru until 08:00 by rotoguru. It wouold most likely, help to avoid some of the otherwise potential confusion in time zone conversions.
As for the initial 8, I agree that the "when" is a critical component. Last year IIRC, I simply named initially, the nr 5 guy or some such, in each position. (It may have been nr 10, or nr 7), I cant honestly recall. Was thinking to do along the same lines this year. The obviously talented pool I put up in the header, would most definitely NOT be in the initial offerings. Those are all "key" personnel for whom the timing of their naming, will be central in peoples strategies.
We could find a way of doing a "league" naming for the initial 8, if folks prefer. I dont have a problem with it, beyond ouor coming up with a viable means of executing it without alienating anyone by causing them to wonder to themselves, "How come he got to name someone and my guy didnt make the list?"
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| 14 | FRICK
ID: 345202714
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 10:16
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We have 6 positions on the teams. Say take the #10 player from some ranking system (Yahoo, ESPN, whoever) and throw those 6 out there plus the #20 WR and RB, as those 2 positions that require multiple spots.
1 rule that I remember from last year was a maximum for each slot. I want to say it was something like 3 QBs 6 RBs? Will that be in effect?
Also are we allowed to trade cash with players?
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| 15 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 10:32
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ESPN allowed me to set a max nr of players for ea position. We can do that again if folks prefer.
I'd suggest, since we have 2 flex spots and require starting 2 RB, 2 WR and 1 TE, plus 2 more from any of those 3 spots (with only WR overlapping the 2 spots), limiting positions to the following max:
No more than:
3 x QB
5 x RB
5 x WR
2 x TE
With only 15 spots on the rosters total and a K as well a D to start, nobody can really afford I think, to exceed these nrs anyway. By having added 1 spot to our starting lineups while not adding 1 to the bench, we go from a roster of 9/6 to 10/5. Where we used to have 2 Bench players for every 3 starters, we now have only 1 Bench player for every 2 starters. I had thought about this, and kept coming to the same conclusion...nobody can afford to "loadup" on a given position anyway. *shrug* Upto the league. If you want limits, I have no problem with it.
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| 16 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 10:35
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As to your second question...yes. A manager trading player "A" with a salary of say $18 for a player with a salary of $9, may offer salary assistance along with the trade. Since salaries gop with the player, if I am gaining the $18 player and only have $13 cap room ($4 plus $9 from the player leaving), you could offer to provide 5, 6, 7 or more dollars in "salary assistance". This means that the offered nr of dollars, would still count against your salary cap and not the other managers involved in the trade.
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| 17 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 13:12
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I do not like the max per slot at all.
If I want to corner the market on QBs for trading leverage, I should be allowed to do so.
Would prefer to see it wide open.
Especially since this is an Auction Draft.
Comes back to strategy.
Also, not sure about how I feel on how we get the initial names up for bid.
This is a huge part of the strategy of an auction draft.
And since we are not in a room together, and we are allowing the winning bidder to name the next player up for bid, the starting group is really important.
Let me think about it a little.
Agree with the ability to trade cash.
Cliff
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| 18 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 13:17
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OK, it appears wiggs got things started last year, and we had 12 on the board at a time, not 8.
(See this thread:
Initial Auction Thread from last year )
If we go with 12, then every manager can name 1 player to the board. We could do this, the day before the draft begins, so that each manager can see who is being named by others. Once we have the initial 12, I'll start a new thread to begin the bidding.
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| 19 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 13:39
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When are we starting bidding.
I'm on business travel next week.
Would only be able to check in the morning and at nite.
Cliff
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| 20 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 13:42
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Earlier conversation had us starting around 1 August. I'm thinking since we appear to be almost ready, we may well begin a mock draft Sunday morning, and then start our real process next Friday evening.
As for limiting the nr of position players, I tend to agree that it isnt necesary this year. We essentially took 1 off the bench and made him a starter, so the ratio of reserves to starters is dramatically lower than it was last year. Despite the total roster size being the same.
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| 21 | youngroman
ID: 43441182
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 14:23
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I think the more players you stock at any given position the more you have a problem at other positions especially in bye-weeks. so I don't think we need a limit per position.
I am good to go next week. my plan is to group the players in tiers this weekend.
last year we needed 4 weeks for the draft, add 1 week as a buffer, so the latest start-date is somewhere in 2 weeks. it all depends how many information we want to get out of training camps.
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| 22 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 15:07
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OK, this will NOT be a keeper league as of yet. Whatever we decide to do in the future, rosters at the end of this season will be totally and completely cleared of all personnel, so plan and draft accordingly.
I'll post a new thread tonight, with 12 players named. We'll start the clock and our mock draft process, as of 8 am eastern tomorrow (Sat the 15th). Since the purpose of the mock draft is to merely acquaint ourselves with the process, any rules discussions can readily continue throughout the mock process. We will continue the mock through Wed night the 19th 6pm eastern. This will allow some time for discussion in case of any serious confusion on anyones part.
On Thurs the 20th, I'll start yet another thread. In this thread, between the hours of 6pm Thursday night and midnight Thursday night (midnight as of the rotoguru time stamp which is eastern time), each manager is to name 1 player and one player only, who will appear on our Board come Fri am when we begin the real draft. Please, to get yourselves into the habit, nominate your playewr to the board, as per the format earlier indicated.
[b]Player Name[/b], Position, Team, $Amount, [b]bidding manager[/b]
(substitute the symbol < for [ and > for ])
Late next Thursday night, I'll post the official draft thread, with the 12 names, bids etc, to start us off.
Thanks to all for the feedback, questions, input and interest!!!!!!!! I'll take this moment to wish all of you good luck, though I'll keep one finger crossed so as to avoid giving "too much" good luck. ;)
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| 23 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 16:26
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OK, will work around the dates.
Right now, we are on the road the better part of the day on Sun 16 Jul, could end up leaving Sat 15 Jul.
Will have access Sun after we get to the campground and get set up.
Will be in a meeting all day Mon - Weds 17-19 Jul. Should be able to check in the morning and evening.
Really don't know what Thurs - Sat looks like.
Still have a few things to help the daughter with on the sons estate.
Will also go back out to the Cemetary one of those days.
We leave San Diego to head home on Sun 23 Jul.
So, will work around or use queues to people if there are players I really want with my max bids.
Cliff
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| 24 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 16:31
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Sounds like things have been happening about which I was unaware. Seems our condolences may well be in order. Rest assured, you have them.
Through Wed next week (the 19th) is only the mock draft Cliff. Real deal, wont start until Fri am the 21st.
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| 25 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 17:27
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That's right, you don't follow the baseball boards.
I'll send you an email tonite after I get home.
Cliff
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| 26 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 18:15
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I also would pass on imposing maxes at positions. Hoarding is a valid strategy (maybe not a smart one, but definitely valid) so if you want 6 kickers, be my guest.
I'd also like to throw out there that for the mock auction, just to avoid confusion, can we just use retired players since we're just primarily working through the mechanics? I'm not sure that it matters anyway, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
Dates look good - I think it took 3-4 days last year for any of the original players to get bought so I don't think anyone who misses the first day or two will be impacted IMO.
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| 27 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 20:08
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Ditto what Beezer said in 26, either retired or defensive players.
Either one works so that nobody gives anything away.
Cliff
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| 28 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 21:50
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thats easy enough
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| 29 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 10:37
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Just looking at the mock draft and thinking.
Yeh, yeh, yeh, I know that's scary.
Do we want to make all of the bids in one post if we are making multiple bids.
They will all be time stamped together.
Or, do you want them separated out into single posts.
Cliff
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| 30 | wiggs
Donor
ID: 04991311
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 10:47
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multiple bids is fine.
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| 31 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 10:47
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thats part and parcel of the strategy Cliff. Its "easier" for bids to "get lost" (ie overlooked by other managers) when they are seperated. Some of my bids for ex, will be grouped, some wont. Some will be "bump bids", some wont. Some are intended to mislead, some arent.
Hows that for a non-answer of a response? :)
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| 32 | THK away
ID: 06201511
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 12:21
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Guys, sorry I haven't been active. I have spotty access where I am. I'll check back in more in depth on Sunday.
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| 33 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 12:41
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Trust me, I'm very aware of all of that, but was really asking the question of you and Wiggs from the administrative side of tracking this thing.
Yeh, and mislead can get your dumb a** in trouble.
Trust me, I well know :)
Cliff
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| 34 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 15:51
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Yeh, and mislead can get your dumb a** in trouble.
Only if you "zig" when you shoulda "zagged". ;)
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| 35 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 19:34
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Good job on explaining the 24 hr clock Sarge.
Always wanted to own Kellen in his prime :)
Cliff
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| 36 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 19:53
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Always wanted to own Kellen in his prime
Sorta drew that conclusion when I saw your $25 bid leap out there right away. lol :)
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| 37 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 21:14
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Similarly, you can tell that this is a mock because sarge actually got a Vikings player that won't underperform this year. :)
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| 38 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 22:02
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:(
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| 39 | THK
ID: 2510332316
Sun, Jul 16, 2006, 13:49
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Can somebody updated me on the mock draft? When will it end? Contrary to popular belief (in reference to last year) I understand the bidding! ;-)
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| 40 | sarge33rd
ID: 2464896
Sun, Jul 16, 2006, 14:09
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lol Mock draft ends wed night at 6pm. (See post 22 above) :)
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| 41 | GoatLocker
Sustainer
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jul 21, 2006, 11:00
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Sarge,
Not sure if you want to use this thread for discussion during the draft or start another.
Don't have time to look back through threads, but believe the following to be true:
Loco Ochenta y Ocho is The Beezer
Cliff
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| 42 | sarge33rd
ID: 575352217
Fri, Jul 21, 2006, 11:10
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gd pt Cliff. New thread for discussion posted. :)
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