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Subject: Survivor - Season 19 - Samoa
Posted by: JeffG
- Leader [01584348] Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 09:08
The twenty contestants for Season 19 was revealed late last week. This season's cast features a police officer, a rocket scientist, an MD, a 62 year old chef, a pair of hair stylists, a pair of bartenders, a guy who owns an oil company, and the usual requisite group of lawyers, students, and babes.
CBS Promo leaves little hints of what to come, but the current behind the scene promo on the CBS website hints of a new way to bypass tribal council.
The hype on tv promises Survivor's "biggest villian yet". (Could it be the Texas oil tycoon?)
Season gets underway Sept 17.
Season 20 is rumored to be another 'alumni/all star' type contest called heroes vs villians to celebrate the 10th year anniversary of the Survivor franchise.
official site |
| Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
| 29 | Skidazl
ID: 280401016
Fri, Nov 13, 2009, 19:31
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"If you asked me after episode 1 who I wanted to win Russell would have been last. I actually want him to win and I imagine I am not alone.
I was the same way, though i'm actually rooting for natalie to win, but seeing the foafoa as final four, or 5 w/ shambo, would be the best for me...
Galu are morons, so you have the slightest inclination russell has the idol, vote any of the other 3 members first, duh? Like Dalton Ross said in his blog, "Nineteen seasons in and people still cannot grasp the fundamentals of the game." They deserve to lose and now they probably will.
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| 30 | barilko6
ID: 4110311417
Sat, Nov 14, 2009, 18:31
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It was interesting to see Shambo vote for Russel. Was she protecting herself just in case? Will she vote with the 4some to make it 5 against 5?
If I were Team Russel I would vote out Monica next week, assuming she would be the easiest to beat in any sort of tie-break format. On the other hand, if I were the other team I would vote off Natalie, for that same reason, as well as to flush out the idol this time.
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| 31 | Skidazl
ID: 280401016
Mon, Nov 16, 2009, 00:21
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i think shambo's vote was just as you said, to protect herself, making galu think she is still one of them, if not she is playing dumber than i thought
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| 32 | WiddleAvi
ID: 895017
Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 22:32
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What a brilliant episode. It's almost an afterthought that Russel has another idol which he did not need to play. I am at lost for words.
I wonder how much did Foa Foa's idea to try and get Galu to vote for John played into john flipping.
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| 33 | JeffG
ID: 47112621
Thu, Nov 19, 2009, 22:53
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Great season!
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| 34 | weykool
ID: 491072011
Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 12:07
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Incredible, Incredible, Incredible.
My take on the last 3 episodes.
Russell is playing the game like we have all been saying it needs to be played every season.
Finding 3 idols is beyond belief.
Absolutely brilliant how he led the Galu people away from the idol then returned to collect it.
The only thing I would have liked to see was him to keep looking for it and watch the other players follow him around like little lost puppies.
I'm expecting the final episodes to be just as good as the last 3 as players like Shambo jockey for position and switch alliances.
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| 35 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Fri, Nov 20, 2009, 16:26
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Brilliant! As much as I'd like to hate Russell, he is truly a master. It helps to have possibly the dumbest opposition ever, but he may well be the greatest Survivor of all time.
Now I can't decide who I want to see go next. Dave for being so clueless, John for being an idiot (odds were better for him not getting a stone than him lasting three more councils) or Shambo for having no value other than as a turncoat and for being so irritating. Obviously from the previews, Russell is setting her up for some group hate.
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| 36 | Q-Tipp
ID: 169452521
Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 23:08
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35...Pardon my ignorance but why would John be afraid to get a stone? I thought in the case of a tie, only the two ladies would be eligible to be tossed by the dreaded rock of choice. Am I wrong?
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| 37 | C1-NRB
ID: 5115723
Sat, Nov 21, 2009, 23:50
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That's not what Jeff said. If it remained tied after the second vote, the two girls would then be "safe" and the remaining eight would be putting themselves on the block because they couldn't come to a decision.
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| 38 | wiggs
ID: 33916913
Sun, Nov 22, 2009, 01:08
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C1- you are correct
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| 39 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Fri, Nov 27, 2009, 09:41
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Wait, what???? I thought if it was still tied, the two girls would be the onle ones to choose rocks?????
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| 40 | WiddleAvi
ID: 895017
Fri, Nov 27, 2009, 12:48
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No. C1 is correct. Jeff made it clear that if it was still tied after a second vote the 2 girls are safe and everyone else chooses rocks. So much better that way too. Forces someone to decide if they want to jump to the other team (As John did) or put his life on the line.
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| 41 | threespleens
Leader
ID: 00795541
Sun, Nov 29, 2009, 19:20
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sounds pretty dumb. what if 2 people flip, 1 on both sides. then it's still a tie.
what happened to the old make a fire tiebreaker? or did cbs get sick of embarrassing people who can't build a fire even with the help of matches.
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| 42 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Sun, Nov 29, 2009, 20:29
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I thought the stone for all was always the way they did it except for the final three/four (in which case the tie was unbreakable). Then they do fire.
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| 43 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Sun, Nov 29, 2009, 20:32
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OK I looked it up. Fire is only for final four since Season 1.
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| 44 | barilko6
ID: 491072921
Sun, Nov 29, 2009, 22:07
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I remember back in the day, if it was tied then whoever had the most previous votes cast against them was out.
If the two people getting voted out had the same amount of votes cast against them, then it was a trivia showdown, first one to get a question wrong was out.
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| 45 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21049216
Tue, Dec 01, 2009, 17:12
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I like the random rock tiebreaker...it gives people incentive to flip.
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| 46 | barilko6
ID: 441153119
Tue, Dec 01, 2009, 20:54
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I like the fire building one myself, kind of a prove your worth challenge.
But the random rock does put people at risk who normally think they are safe, so that is good.
Question, does everyone get a rock, or does individual immunity cover the rock process as well?
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| 47 | WiddleAvi
ID: 895017
Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 23:14
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First thing is Shambo is just a complete idiot. It will be interesting to see what happens with her next week.
So here is my question for you guys. If you were playing survivor what strategy would you use ? Would you try and be the leader of an alliance (Russell) and have a target on your back ? Would be just be a follower (Natalie) and try and make a move later in the game ? In challenges would you try and win or lose on purpose so people do not take you as a threat ?
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| 48 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 08:37
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Regarding what type of player I would be, to get to the final four or so there is always one who either rides coattails or flies under the radar (usually there is always a bigger fish to eliminate at prior tribals over and over), but I think to win, the jury usually pays a little more respect to someone who played or had control in the game, you'd just have to gauge the personalities of the potential jurists and see if they are the grandstanding sore loser types who hold grudges. Russell 'saving' Dave last night bought Dave an episode or two but potentially put jurist Dave in Russell's favor, but Russell's double crossing an analytical person like John may not have necessarily lost that vote. I think strong players once in a while have to throw an individual challenge where athleticism is involved if they think it is low risk they are on the block at the next tribal, as not to appear as threatening.
As for last night's episode. Man, yet another tribal the booted person never saw coming. From Russell's standpoint (as is this whole season), not sure if it was the totally best move since he had someone who was going to give him a heads up if his name was ever whispered with the combination of the HII is a guarantee for getting to the final tribal, but the reaction made for good tv.
Every time I see Brett, I keep thinking has there ever been a potential fianl 4 guy with less tv face time? Talk about under the radar.
Shambo looked foolish again at tribal where yet a whole new set of tribemates kept her in the dark as to get the blind side to work. Jaison is right about about this move turning her even more into a loose cannon. I'd almost think everyone in camp knows it and even though she is someone that any finalist would have their best shot of winning going H2H with her, they may have to bump her off next.
I've said this all year with such an enjoyable season... Can't wait til next Thursday.
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| 49 | WiddleAvi
ID: 401136410
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 11:36
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While I agree you get more respect from the jury if you coordinated the whole thing there is a decent chance you never make it to the jury. Who was the first Galu guy gone after the merge ? Was it Erik ? Everyone saw him as a threat and said lets get rid of him while we can. Part of the reason Russell lasted this long was because Foa Foa needed every vote possible so there was no way any of them switch. With Foa Foa gaining power now they will start to think about getting rid of Russell like they showed in next weeks teaser.
I think the best option is like last years final 2 when they both worked together as even partners.
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| 50 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 13:30
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Looking over past winners I categorized them as follows:
Followers: 8
Tina(2), Vesipia(4), Jenna(6), Sandra(7), Amber(8), Danni(11), Todd(15), Parvati(16)
Evil leaders: 2
Hatch(1), Brian(5)
Strong players: 5
Ethan(3), Chris(9), Tom(10), Bob(17), JT(18)
Nice leaders: 3
Aras(12), Yul(13), Earl(14)
Although there is probably overlap in my list, it appears best to be a good follower if you don't have the physical/camp skills. Being a leader is usually not good. If Russell wins, he'll be the first "evil" leader to win since season 5.
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| 51 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 16:31
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Awesome analysis. Using those categories, 7 of the 8 'followers' who won were women, and all 10 of the 'strong players' or 'leaders' who won were men.
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| 52 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21049216
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 18:24
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I would put Chris(9) in the Evil leader category...he pretty much lied his way through the entire thing...and was particularly full of shart in the tribal council...
Tom S10 was definitely a leader...he pretty much strong armed his way to the victory. Definitely the dominant personality and really forced the rest of the tribe to his way of thinking through the entire season.
Any younger/athletic male is pretty much going to have to take some sort of dominant role...not going to be possible to fly under the radar.
I think most of the female winners have faced other females in tribal council...as a dominant male when it gets down to the end you can never let the women get a numbers edge or almost for sure a female alliance will form.
I think one of the beautiful things about the survivor game is it will change drastically based on your opponents. There is not one certain way to win and does take total in game analysis. Definitely different phases of the game...early it is all about staying out of the spotlight and surviving...mid it is about forming and keeping the dominant alliance together...end is about making the right plays to stay in the majority...council is really about trying to swing a vote or two...I think most votes are decided before council and if it is close the winner will either gains someones respect/vote or fool someone enough to get an extra vote.
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| 53 | Bauxman
ID: 2110171217
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 18:25
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Russell is not evil. The others are just stupid. Long live Russell.
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| 54 | WiddleAvi
ID: 895017
Fri, Dec 04, 2009, 21:48
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Bauxman - Of course he is evil. He poured out everyone's water, Burned Jaison's socks, & Freed the Chickens.
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| 55 | C1-NRB
ID: 5115723
Mon, Dec 07, 2009, 22:44
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Just got caught up.
I like your list, Balrog. It's similar to mine from last season but I didn't list every winner.
I'd move Todd (15) into either the Strong Player or Nice Leader column, though. He wasn't much of a "classic" Leader but he did maintain control of his alliance throughout. I characterize that as an attribute shared with the Strong Player category.
Russell is deliciously evil. Unfortunately it appears they may be on to him, though. It's like he's left a treatise titled "My Diabolical Plan" by Russell on the copier.
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| 56 | BDC
ID: 281117723
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 00:17
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50..Balrog...very nice listing. I'd be interested in hearing your opinion on those that "should" have won and how you'd classify them. Still can't believe Ozzy lost to Yul at Cook Islands. Unreal.
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| 57 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 12:52
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In hindsight I agree Todd was more of a leader, given that he was manipulating things without most people realizing it. I don't know if I'd call him "nice", but he was not as evil as Hatch and Brian, so...
I thought Tom was almost always on the weaker team and mostly survived by winning challenges. I could be wrong but that's why I put him in "Strong Player".
For the most part, the ones who won, "should" have won. There have been a couple of cases that a strong player/leader took someone to the final out of loyalty (*cough* Tina, Sandra *cough*) that went on to beat them. I think if you do that, you deserve to lose. Tina/Sandra deserved the win because she, by hook or by crook, convinced whoever that was to take her and that's part of the game.
We make fun of Shambo for putting her personal feelings above good gameplay, but a big portion of the jury appears to make their vote on the same basis. Parvati, as useless a player as the game has ever seen, won because the jury liked her. As the jury vote is the be-all end-all, she did it right and "should" have won. I think that will be a big part of this final, too. Look at Erik. He apparently hates everybody and revels in each ejection at tribal. Shambo probably hates everybody now too. I wouldn't be surprised if she goes ballistic this week and becomes the next juror.
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| 58 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21049216
Tue, Dec 08, 2009, 17:42
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Shambo...that is my prediction too...both sides turn on her and they have an easy vote off this week.
They tried to preview the Russell vote off but that pretty much guarantees he is safe for this week...but he is in big trouble probably in the next two weeks.
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| 59 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Sat, Dec 12, 2009, 12:14
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This is great. It looks like the others realize they need to get rid of Russell, but none of them have a strong enough alliance with each other to be confident in getting to the final 3 or 4 without Russell's help.
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| 60 | Skidazl
ID: 280401016
Sat, Dec 12, 2009, 21:54
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what a weak tribal, so what if russell plays the idol and you voted for him, then dave goes, but the idol is gone. Now he just needs to show it again next week and they'll get scared again....
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| 61 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 1550160
Sun, Dec 13, 2009, 00:11
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next week russell will use it...last tribal the idol can be used I think...that is why it did not matter if he showed it once he was confident he was safe this week...
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| 62 | Skidazl
ID: 280401016
Wed, Dec 16, 2009, 16:34
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You're right, seem like this season went real fast. though we had another week before the final week...
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| 63 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Dec 18, 2009, 08:35
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With it down to 5, I still find it hard to believe that the merge went 4 vs 8 and the 4 are all left. This has really been a great season but I fear that the finale will be very anticlimactic. Brett will go the first time he does not have immunity because everyone else left is a little concerned that every jury member was Brett's Galu-mate. Natalie is clearly sticking with Russ and I do not see Mick or Jaison with any end game to make me think different.
If I were any other remaining player, there is no way I'd want to be sitting next to Russell at the final tribal. If by some fluke, the jury decides to get all holy and vote the million to someone else, it would tarnish a terrific season.
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| 65 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21049216
Fri, Dec 18, 2009, 09:27
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Brett obviously has to go...and he likely will...winning three immunity challenges in a row is a tough task and the odds are stacked against him.
I think Natalie has a shot if she is sitting in the finals next to Russell. I think she has been a solid player...still riding the Russell wave but a very good lieutenant. I got some guilty pleasure out of seeing her and Brett saying prayers during the reward challenge only to see in the end Russell pull the zero coconut rope and Brett/Nat lose the challenge. Shambo calling the 58 was amazing.
I was dieing laughing when Russell was describing Shambo's hair.
I really hope Russell is in the finals because I am interested in what his end game strategy will be. He has been a master in this game thus far but tribal council is where you win the million. He is setup to win it and I think if he shows a little honesty and emphasizes the "outplay outwit outlast" aspect of the game he will get the votes.
This has easily been one of the top seasons. I think it's only competition was season 1. Season 20 on paper looks like it could also be spectacular.
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| 66 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Dec 18, 2009, 11:02
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I like the Season 20 cast. Already getting excited.
Quite a few third timers in the group. If Boston Rob and Russell join forces, they'll be tough to take down. Coach and Randy are crazy and should add to the entertainment value. Stephanie and Tom are all time favorites of mine, Rupert was one of the most popular survivor contestants ever. Jerri and Parvati will just annoy me to death and I hope I do not have to watch Jerri and Colby flirt with each other for any part of the season. Thank goodness no Johnny Fairplay. Too bad no Hatch. So many good ones it had to be tough to cast just 20. For the good guys, I would have loved to see Yau Man, Elisabeth, Lex, Hogeboom, Yul. For bad guys: Brian or Shane.
There are so many large personalities in this group there that this may be the season where the winning strategy is to lay low. The prior winners that were on all-stars did not fare well, they'll need to team up to have better luck in this one.
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| 67 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Sun, Dec 20, 2009, 18:50
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I believe that Season 20 was/is being filmed as season 19 airs. That means the poor saps won't know Russell so they won't be gunning for him as they should be.
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| 68 | RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 01:08
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I think I might never watch this show again after that vote.
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| 69 | WiddleAvi
ID: 895017
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 07:46
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I will still watch because it's a great show but it does suck year after year seeing all these bitter people on the jury. It was almost funny watching Eric about to cry giving his holier than thou speach. I did like that Russell pulled no punches. Said it straight out, I lied, I backstabbed because thats what I needed to do to win.
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| 70 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 08:23
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Add Natalie to post 50 above as another who won using the 'follower' approach. It seems to be the only effective way females win the million. With the inter personal dynmics elelment, and how a woman gets labeled if they play any sort of agressive game or sneaky strategy, and how there is always the backlash element in the final vote, maybe Natalie deserves a little credit for figuring that out, although in not one 'confessional' during the entire season did she disclose that it was her strategy.
After the final vote was revealed, Russell sure reacted like he already had that million spent. Maybe Russ should have played up his hidden immunity idol play more to the jury if any were wavering as to what each did to survive. I thought he played it right in front of the jury by not beating up too much towards Natalie which may have caused additional backlash. But as sometimes happes on this show, the bitter jurists get the last laugh. Unfortunately that seems to have become part of the game. Maybe he and the guys should have voted her out at the final 5 vote when Brett had immunity, it looked like it was definitely considered. I'm still surprised at that final 5 vote with Brett holing immunity that Mick and Jaison didn't conspire to recognize that Russell was the one that had to go for their best shot. They played horrible games, had zero chance of winning even when it was down to 5, and missed blatant opportunities. Those two were carried on Russell's coattails alot more than Natalie was. Russell even deserves credit for trying to work his influence with Brett before the last immunity challenge to save himself at tribal if Brett were to win final immunity.
Russ acted at the reunion show ("I just want the title of 'Sole Survivor' and I'll pay you for it") as if he is the first one voted out of season 20. I sure hope not. He was one of, if not the best and most entertaining player ever in the shows 10 year history, and this has to go down as one of the best seasons to date.
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| 71 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21049216
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 09:50
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Typical jury...about what I expected. I think Russell played it about as well as he could with the jury. Emphasize the game aspect...emphasize the outwit/outplay/outlast aspect...problem is everyone on the jury has this delusion that they should be in the finals and if they would have got there they would have done it with integrity...BS. When it gets down to the end you need to back stab people...you need to trick people...given the chance all of them would have done the same thing. It has been shown time and again that most of the jury is going to be sore losers.
Russell pretty much played a perfect game and definitely controlled the game more than any other player in the history of the game. He pretty much orchestrated every vote out the entire season. He even surrounded himself with weak players in the finals.
Anyone else think the bedraggled Natalie at the end of the season was a lot better looking than the Natalie we saw in the reunion show?...barely even looked like her.
Good season...looking forward to 20.
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| 72 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 7115138
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 10:39
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And the one girl I think Luann is a grandmother, my grandmother didnt look like that. I wish Russel would have stated what he really thought of the jury. I think there would have been a lot of bleeping out. wow was he pissed. Totally agree with the natalie look comment.
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| 73 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 16:13
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The only really evil guy to win besides Hatch was Brian, and he won because he went to the final jury with his equally evil cohort. I think Natalie would have won no matter which of the Foa-foa she went with, other than Brett.
Was anyone else irritated by Shambo's repeated claims she's a cheerful person that hates negativity, and yet she was negative about just about everybody at some point. That is except for Russell, the self-proclaimed hate-generator. Thick as a brick.
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| 74 | ChicagoTRS
ID: 21049216
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 17:45
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I do not think Russell gets votes from the sore galu-sers no matter who he takes to the finals. They had decided their votes in camp long before the final jury.
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| 75 | weykool
ID: 4811552119
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 20:57
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I disagree with the sentiment that that Natalie didnt deserve to win.
There are two phases to the game of survivor.
1. Get yourself into the finals.
2. Do whatever you can to curry favor with the people on the jury who are 99% of the time there because you voted/conspired to put them there.
Every season Jeff reminds the players about #2
On #1 Russsell is without a doubt one of, if not the best player to ever play this phase of the game.
On #2 Russell failed miserably to do anything to earn any votes.
He came accross with an arrogant attitude.
It was like he was saying:
"Haha, Im in the finals and you aren't".
The response from the jury was:
"Haha, We aren't going to win the million but neither are you".
I think Natalie played the cards she was delt as best she could and in the end she held the winning hand.
Lets keep in mind it would have been all Galu memebers except for:
Shambo defecting.
Galu voting off Eric first.
Galu not following their gut about Russell having the idol
John not switching his vote.
If any one of those 4 things had not happened we would probably talking about what a dumb player and bitter jury member Russell was.
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| 76 | threespleens
Leader
ID: 00795541
Mon, Dec 21, 2009, 22:59
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well, i'm pretty pissed off at that vote.
what more can he do to go out there and win the game? i agree he should have tried to win a couple more votes and he should have stressed the 'i found 3 hidden immunity idols without a clue' angle.
4-8 down and it was him that got his tribe where they were. he even had to beat brett in the final nerve racking challenge.
why weren't the 3 given a closing statement to the jury? the last thing that was said was a huge pro-natalie speech. that's the last thing that was in the minds of the jury when they voted.
i thought that if russell was given a chance to speak after erik, he would be able to properly state why he was the deserved winner.
and he was.
natalie did do a lot of talking to the other team and getting them on her/russell's side for voting, and she did improve throughout the game, but that's not worth a million and the title of sole survivor.
stupid jury. no wonder they were 8-4 up and managed to lose. stupid stupid stupid.
a bitter tasting end to a great year of survivor.
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| 77 | Donny
ID: 71136229
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 10:36
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Oh please, with the Russell should have won. Yes, he played the game perfectly except for one little thing. He didn’t take into account that the people you screw over have to vote for you in the end.
No matter how much you believe they should have voted for Russell, human nature is at play. And Survivor is a game about human nature. You are asking the panel to vote for the guy that lied to, manipulated, and sabotaged them at every opportunity. I mean he was down right diabolical and mean. In that you are right, Russell was the best. But, expecting the panel to put all that aside and give him the $1 million. Yeah right! Russell doing whatever he had to do to win the game was human nature. The panel giving him the finger instead of the money was too, lol.
Natalie, in the end, played the better game. She let Russell shoot himself in the foot. Next time, Russell remember all aspects of the game. Do what you did this time, but make sure you work someone into being perceived as the bigger jerk. Then, they will vote for you instead. People, usually vote for the lesser of two jerks.
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| 78 | Challenger
Sustainer
ID: 481126818
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 13:55
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Russell's biggest mistake was when he was forced to play his 1st immunity idol. Natalie knew what the plan was and didn't protect his back. Russell should have realized what was going on and as soon as it was safe and eliminated her. However, he got caught up in finding the next immunity idol and once he found it he patted himself on the back instead of revisiting why he gave up the his 1st one in the first place and plot out his revenge.
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| 79 | Skidazl
ID: 280401016
Tue, Dec 22, 2009, 17:13
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like Russel said, you can never get cocky in this game, and he admittedly did, so now he is sitting on 100 grand rather than a million. That is why he lost and will not win season 20. His arrogance will stop that from happening.
I had no issue with natalie winning, she did play a good game, just not as conniving as russel. Remember, we see an edited version of everything going on and the producers wanted to play up Russel. I'll bet anything that natalie did a lot more wheeling and dealing than was shown.
And finally, it looks like she hasn't stopped eating since the season ended.
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