Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [1311532913] Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 16:15
This morning's newspaper had a story on this year's inductees to the R&R Hall of Fame:
Van Halen(Duh) R.E.M(well, OK) Patti Smith(really?) Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five(you're kidding) The Ronettes(why, because Ronnie Spector was married to Phil Spector, now on trial for murder?)
So I decided to look up just who is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
While I was pleasantly suprised to see most of the R&B legends like James Brown, Jackie Wilson and Wilson Pickett as well as early bluesmen like Robert Johnson, Howling Wolf and John Lee Hooker, they also had decidedly non-rock and roll black groups like the Ink Spots and the Platters. Gee, why not Nat King Cole? A few names I never heard of like Doc Pomus, The Bag O'Nails, Scotch of St James and Mo Ostin.
A few others I questioned were Brenda Lee, Blondie, Ricky Nelson, The Sex Pistols and Maurice Gibb, who made it twice as the Bee Gees are there, justifiably. However, Creedence Clearwate Revival is in, but not John Fogerty separately. Maybe when he dies. Overall, here are some of the glaring ommissions, IMO.
Boston - Granted, they never topped their first album, or strayed much from that formula, but on that 1st album alone, they are deserving. It is one of the greatest rock records of all time.
The Cars - I don't get it. Elvis Costello in but not the Cars, who were really the first super popular "new wave" band, and Ric Ocasek and Benjamin Orr were influential songwriters. Plus, Orr is dead.
Jethro Tull - Maybe getting that fraudulent grammy a few years ago has hurt them, but Ian Anderson was a visionary, an original, and credited his flute style to Roland Kirk with his Song for a Cuckoo tribute.
Motley Crue - Other than AC/DC, Black Sabbath Aerosmith, and now VH, there is a complete dirth of "metal" bands. Love em or hate em, how can Bill Monroe be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and not Motley Crue?
1
boikin
ID: 59831214 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 16:26
No cars or Montley Crue there is something diffently not right there.
2
blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 16:32
I've been to the museum and I was surprised at who is not in.
Boston is clearly on the most influential Rock n Roll Bands of all time - they even told us so in one of their songs.
You are right on in your calls. Think GNR will make it someday?
3
boikin
ID: 59831214 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 16:36
I can not see how GnR can not make it some day.
4
Perm Dude
ID: 1703699 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 16:37
Grandmaster Flash ushered in rap, and influenced all of later rap, particularly hip hop. The lyrics spoke to urban black youth and the temptation of crime.
As for Motley Crue, they were not eligible before late 2006 (25 years after the release of their first album). Maybe they will be in soon--I dunno. Good group, but only 9 albums and mostly were a hair band in the 80's.
Overall, there are a lack of certain kinds of groups (like progressive rock groups), and the fact that the nominees appear to be made by a limited number of people makes the nominations more their taste than anything else.
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 17:42
Groups like Tull, ELP, Rush, Fripp, Genesis, etc.
Wow, how could I have overlooked Rush and Genesis, and how about Yes?
8
Tree
ID: 1411442914 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 17:48
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five(you're kidding)
what do you mean, "you're kidding"?
they were one of the single most important and influential groups in the infancy of Rap, which, whether you like it or not, is the prevalent music in this country from a sales and radio perspective.
rap has become a world wide music, and really, if you think about the fact that the Beatles predated rap by only 15 years, it's not like rap is something new.
scoffing at them, while praising Boston (i mean, they the Arena Rock band cliche defined, and one of the worst live shows i've ever seen) and The Cars (look up "average" in the dictionary, and i think you'll see their picture) as Hall of Famers is just plain silly.
9
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 18:02
only 9 albums
Is that really a criteria? How many albums did the Ronettes make, or Patti Smith? The Velvet Underground? The Sex Pistols?
And why should being a hair band keep you out of the R&R Hall of Fame? Hair bands are a lot more representative of rock and roll than hip hop. I say Iron Maiden before Grandmaster Flash.
10
TB
ID: 72253110 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 18:08
I think a case could be made for lots of bands that are missing. Besides some of the omissions already listed, here are some others:
The Moody Blues, Steve Miller Band, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper (if this really is the rock and roll hall of fame and not just the pop music hall of fame), Supertramp, Scorpions, Styx, Bad Company, Jefferson Starship, Judas Priest, KISS, Journey, Ted Nugent, Heart, Foreigner, Motorhead, The Cure, Iron Maiden, and Ozzy Osbourne.
11
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 18:13
Jefferson Airplane is there, though not the Starship. That's a good list, though, TB.
Probably should throw Pat Benatar into the mix as well.
12
TB
ID: 19425813 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 18:20
Good catch on Jefferson Airplane. With that being the case, I don't think they need to add Starship. I'm down with Pat Benatar too.
13
Perm Dude
ID: 1703699 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 19:59
PV: My point was that they didn't put out a lot of music with which to influence other artists (that's one of the main criteria).
And, again, they only became eligible a couple of months ago.
I'm not a big fan myself, but if a case can be made then that case can be made now, without the need to try to replace other worthy bands whose inclusion has no effect on theirs.
As for the list, I think a lot of those groups/artists should be in there. Benetar & KISS, particularly. And a ton of the progressive groups.
14
TB Sherpa
ID: 031811922 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 20:57
Tree, I certainly agree with Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five being voted into a music hall of fame, but it just seems odd voting them into the rock hall of fame. The only reason I see them being voted into the rock hall of fame is because, like you said, they are one of the most influential groups in the infancy of rap and rap certainly has a strong influence with some of the "rock" from the last decade, including bands like RATM, Bizkit, Linkin Park, Kid Rock, and the Chili Peppers.
I clicked on The Rap Question and saw this: The Rock Hall's primary function is "to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll." There is no question that hip hop has heavily influenced today's rock artists -- Red Hot Chili Peppers, Rage Against the Machine, and countless others combine rap and rock seamlessly. Turntables and sampling have their roots in early rap, but are now ubiquitous in popular music. You can't understand popular music from the last 20 years without hip hop. That needs to be documented in the Hall of Fame.
The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation (who nominates the artists) has shown a recent willingness to open their doors to rap by nominating Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five in 2005 and 2006, though they didn't receive enough votes to get inducted. [Update: Grandmaster Flash & the Furious Five were inducted in 2007.] The Rock Hall Museum has also hosted speakers like Chuck D and held exhibits devoted to hip hop. After all, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is also an active museum and they want to expand their visitors to hip hop fans.
I would still like to see more of the metal/rock bands added to the "Rock" HOF like Maiden, Kiss, Priest, Scorpions, Deep Purple, Alice Cooper, and Styx. Especially Kiss and Styx who were two of the biggest American rock bands of the 70's and 80's. Styx was the first musical act ever to have four consecutive multi-platinum albums and went on to years of success. Kiss shouldn't need any kind of sell job. I really don't remember a bigger rock band as a kid. So many of my friends had boatloads of Kiss posters in their room and what other band had a nation like the Kiss Nation? 80 million albums sold might not be near what the Beatles sold, but a very influental band.
15
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 21:22
Based on record sales and an ultra-dramatic "Behind the Music" legacy, I think Def Leppard probably deserves some consideration. And if The Rock Hall's primary function is "to recognize the contributions of those who have had a significant impact on the evolution, development and perpetuation of rock and roll" then surely Alabama should get some consideration, since their influence is paramount in this year's top selling domestic artist, Rascal Flatts, which is a rock band any way you slice it. Now, off the top of your head, name a Patti Smith song.
Didn't she cover Springsteen's "Because the Night?"
16
Perm Dude
ID: 1703699 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 21:22
Great piece (about halfway down) on how the Hall Foundation operates. As expected, its good old American "know-who" in which overpaid Foundation members take payola to get groups into the Hall, often from the backlist of Foundation members who belong to certain record companies.
17
TB Sherpa
ID: 031811922 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 23:53
I am a huge Def Leppard fan, but have to be honest. I didn't think they were eligible. I just looked and see they've been eligible since 2004. Man, I feel older every day. If it wasn't so long, I would change my handle to DefLeppardinthehall. =)
18
Perm Dude
ID: 1703699 Tue, Jan 09, 2007, 23:57
As a tribute, how about typing with one hand?
:)
19
TB Sherpa
ID: 031811922 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 00:02
People use more than one hand to type?
20
Boxman
ID: 211139621 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 06:29
Jethro Tull - Maybe getting that fraudulent grammy a few years ago has hurt them, but Ian Anderson was a visionary, an original, and credited his flute style to Roland Kirk with his Song for a Cuckoo tribute.
Metallica's "And Justice For All" was the victim of that Grammy.
No Bon Jovi, GnR, Motley Crue, Phil Collins or Genesis?
21
Wilmer McLean
ID: 281156306 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 08:08
Ronnie Spector was born and raised in upper Manhattan. She formed the Ronettes while in her teens and released her first records in 1961 on the Colpix label. One of those early songs was “You Bet I Would,” co-written by Carole King. Another was the rocking “He Did It” written by Jackie DeShannon and Sharon Sheeley - which Ronnie still performs today.
The Ronettes were also professional singers and dancers at New York's Peppermint Lounge. There they were discovered by legendary disc jockey "Murray the K" (Murray Kaufman), who promptly hired them as dancers for his Brooklyn Fox Theater rock and roll revues.
Beginning in 1963, Ronnie Spector - as lead singer of the ultimate girl group, The Ronettes -recorded a long string of classic pop hits: powerful, poignant teen anthems like the Grammy Award-winning “Walking in the Rain,”, “Do I Love You,” “Baby I Love You,” “The Best Part of Breaking Up,” “I Can Hear Music,” and the international Number One smash “Be My Baby.” These records are among the best-loved and most-emulated recordings in the history of rock and roll.
“There were girl group hits before the Ronettes,” wrote Canadian critic Carl Wilson in a 2003 feature for the Toronto Globe & Mail. “But Ronnie Spector was the first woman in rock to provoke anything like the hysteria that Elvis had caused, which was soon to engulf the Beatles.”
As the Number One pop group in England, Ronnie Spector and the Ronettes headlined over acts like the Rolling Stones and Yardbirds. The Beatles personally requested that the Ronettes join their final U.S. tour in August 1966; later that year, at Basin Street East, a talented young comedian named Richard Pryor was the opening act for the Ronettes' final live performance.
In 1970, Ronnie Spector released her Apple Records debut single, “Try Some, Buy Some” - written and produced by George Harrison, with a backing band that included George, John Lennon, and Ringo Starr. Ronnie sang with Alice Cooper and on Jimi Hendrix's final recording session (August 1970).
In 1976, Billy Joel wrote “Say Goodbye to Hollywood” as a tribute to Ronnie. The next year, she recorded the song with backing by Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and it was issued as a single on Epic Records.
Ronnie's rock and roll renditions of “Frosty the Snowman”, “Sleigh Ride”, “I Saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus” and “Rockin' Round the Christmas Tree” are holiday classics and an integral part of every Christmas season. In 1988, she introduced “Ronnie Spector's Rock & Roll Christmas Party”; it has become a seasonal celebration playing to delighted audiences across the country.
In 1986, Ronnie's duet with Eddie Money-“Take Me Home Tonight” - reached No. 4 on the Billboard Hot 100 and hung on the chart for 23 weeks. The song was nominated for a Grammy Award and became a heavy rotation video on MTV. In 1987, Ronnie returned to recording with her Columbia album, Unfinished Business, featuring “Who Can Sleep” and “Love on A Rooftop.” Over the course of the next 18 months, Ronnie Spector starred in the HBO/Cinemax special “Legendary Ladies of Rock,” presented on the American Music Awards, and sang on the NBC special “Merry Motown Christmas.”
Ronnie Spector's classic recordings have been heard in such films as The Pickup Artist, Quadrophenia, Goodfellas, Mean Streets, and Nine Months. Most significantly, “Be My Baby” set the tone for the box office smash Dirty Dancing - and in 1988, Ronnie joined the cast of the Dirty Dancing stage show for a six-week international tour.
In 1989, Ronnie took time off to write the story of her remarkable life and great music. Be My Baby: How I Survived Mascara, Miniskirts, and Madness (Crown, 1990) was an international bestseller; a revised and updated mass-market paperback was published in June 2004.
In the Nineties, Ronnie returned to the studio to record the theme song for Roseanne's ABC-TV cartoon, “Little Rosey.” She cut the haunting “Farewell to a Sex Symbol” for the cast album of Tim Rice's Tycoon, and sang “Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree” on the Top Ten platinum album A Very Special Christmas 2. In June 1997, at the invitation of President Bill Clinton, Ronnie performed for leaders of the major industrialized nations at the Summit of Eight in Denver, Colorado.
In 1999, Ronnie released the critically acclaimed EP She Talks to Rainbows on the cutting-edge indie label Kill Rock Stars. Highlights included Brian Wilson's “Don't Worry Baby” (which he wrote for Ronnie), Johnny Thunders' “You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory,” and a duet with EP producer Joey Ramone on his own composition “Bye Bye Baby.”
In June 2000, after a fifteen-year legal battle, Ronnie Spector won a landmark decision in the New York State courts. The ruling eased the way for veteran artists of the Fifties and Sixties to collect past-due royalties on their old recordings.
Today, Ronnie Spector lives in Connecticut with her husband/manager Jonathan Greenfield and their two sons, Austin Drew and Jason Charles. She is, quite simply, a legend in her own time - still radiating talent, beauty, and charisma.
The style, look, and sound of Ronnie Spector have served as an inspiration and role model for a generation of rock and roll women. In her sensuality, attitude, and dress, Ronnie created a per-sonal and performing style, which has proven revolutionary. On stage, on record, or on the screen, a Ronnie Spector performance is a jubilant celebration of the power of pop.
22
sarge33rd
ID: 76442923 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 08:23
see post 14. TB said what I wanted to re Rap and the R&R Hall of Fame. IOW, what specifically, does RAP have to do with R&R?? (In my mind, it wouwld be tantamount to voting a top notch sprint car driver into the NASCAR HOF, because he was "influential". So what?)
23
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 10:46
Wilmer #21...
Your post makes a case for Ronnie Spector, but the Ronettes? The group only lasted 3 years(63-66), and despite the hype that These records are among the best-loved and most-emulated recordings in the history of rock and roll, only "Be My Baby" can really be put in that category. I suspect some of the fascination with the group by early British invasion groups stems from their admiration of Phil Spector's "wall of sound" production technique as much as the Ronettes' superstar status.
When making a list of best-loved and most-emulated recordings from an era not far from that, what about Three Dog Night? I'd have to say that "Joy To The World" is as loved as "Be My Baby" any day of the week.
Now hum a few bars of your favorite Velevet Underground hit.
24
blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 11:30
Then what about GNR? I can hum a lot of their stuff.
25
sarge33rd
ID: 99331714 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 11:40
Three Dog Night should DEFINITELY be there.
26
ukula
ID: 39091010 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 11:44
[Nothing interesting to say, as usual]
27
Great One Sustainer
ID: 053272014 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 11:46
Velvet Underground? How about Sweet Jane and Heroin? heck, they made it to #19 on this esteemed list (Patti Smith is #47)... The Immortal Top 50 by Rolling Stone
28
Perm Dude
ID: 490491010 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 11:49
#22: "Influence" is specifically used as one of the criteria to inclusion. A NASCAR HoF might or might not have the same.
The Baseball HoF has executives, umpires, and other "pioneers" including Negro League and women players. That's their criteria.
29
TB
ID: 72253110 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 12:57
Horrible analogy by Sarge. I am not against GFatFF (cool acronym) being in the rock hall of fame, it just sounds odd when you say it out loud. I do understand their influence to not just rock, but all music. The definition of rock has expanded throughout the years and I doubt we would have an easier time trying to make sub categories than the experts. On my ipod I have classic rock, old rock, glam rock, rock, metal, alternative, grunge, trans, industrial, and probably another dozen terms for bands that could simply all just say rock. A lot depends on each individual's influence and choice of music. I do lean more towards the "hard rock" bands when I think of rock. Yeah, a bunch of nerds in the 50's thought they were really rocking and rolling but most of their stuff says classics, oldies, or easy listening on my ipod. =)
30
Wilmer McLean
ID: 281156306 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 13:04
Everybody knows Motown music and pretty much everybody loves some if not all of the music and artists that came out of that stable. However not many people can name the group of musicians that supported the majority of these artists and are credited as the musical foundation for Motown records. That group of thirteen men became known as the Funk Brothers and this is the story of how they came together and influenced an entire generation of music.
James Henke, chief curator for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, with the help of music writers and critics, selected 500 songs (not only rock songs) that they believe have been most influential in shaping rock and roll. The list is alphabetical by artist.
Chuck Berry James Brown Ray Charles Sam Cooke Fats Domino The Everly Brothers Buddy Holly Jerry Lee Lewis Elvis Presley Little Richard
early influences:
Robert Johnson Jimmie Rodgers Jimmy Yancey
lifetime achievement award in the non-performer category:
John Hammond
non-performers:
Alan Freed Sam Phillips
1987 performers:
The Coasters Eddie Cochran Bo Diddley Aretha Franklin Marvin Gaye Bill Haley B. B. King Clyde McPhatter Ricky Nelson Roy Orbison Carl Perkins Smokey Robinson Big Joe Turner Muddy Waters Jackie Wilson
early influences:
Louis Jordan T-Bone Walker Hank Williams
non-performers:
Leonard Chess Ahmet Ertegun Jerry Leiber and Mike Stoller Jerry Wexler
1988 performers:
The Beach Boys The Beatles The Drifters Bob Dylan The Supremes
early influences:
Woody Guthrie Lead Belly Les Paul
non-performers:
Berry Gordy, Jr
1989 performers:
Dion Otis Redding The Rolling Stones The Temptations Stevie Wonder
early influences:
The Inkspots Bessie Smith The Soul Stirrers
non-performers:
Phil Spector
1990 performers:
Hank Ballard Bobby Darin The Four Seasons The Four Tops The Kinks The Platters Simon and Garfunkel The Who
early influences:
Louis Armstrong Charlie Christian Ma Rainey
non-performers:
Gerry Goffin and Carole King Holland, Dozier and Holland
1991 performers:
LaVern Baker The Byrds John Lee Hooker The Impressions Wilson Pickett Jimmy Reed Ike and Tina Turner
early influences:
Howlin' Wolf
lifetime achievement award in the non-performer category:
Nesuhi Ertegun
non-performers:
Dave Bartholomew Ralph Bass
1992 performers:
Bobby "Blue" Bland Booker T. and the M.G.'s Johnny Cash The Isley Brothers The Jimi Hendrix Experience Sam and Dave The Yardbirds
early influences:
Elmore James Professor Longhair
non-performers:
Leo Fender Bill Graham Doc Pomus
1993 performers:
Ruth Brown Cream Creedence Clearwater Revival The Doors Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers Etta James Van Morrison Sly and the Family Stone
early influences:
Dinah Washington
non-performers:
Dick Clark Milt Gabler
1994 performers:
The Animals The Band Duane Eddy The Grateful Dead Elton John John Lennon Bob Marley Rod Stewart
early influences:
Willie Dixon
non-performers:
Johnny Otis
1995 performers:
The Allman Brothers Band Al Green Janis Joplin Led Zeppelin Martha and the Vandellas Neil Young Frank Zappa
early influences:
The Orioles
non-performers:
Paul Ackerman
1996 performers:
David Bowie Gladys Knight and the Pips Jefferson Airplane Little Willie John Pink Floyd The Shirelles The Velvet Underground
early influences:
Pete Seeger
non-performers:
Tom Donahue
1997 performers:
The (Young) Rascals The Bee Gees Buffalo Springfield Crosby, Stills and Nash The Jackson Five Joni Mitchell Parliament-Funkadelic
early influences:
Mahalia Jackson Bill Monroe
non-performers:
Syd Nathan
1998 performers:
The Eagles Fleetwood Mac The Mamas and the Papas Lloyd Price Santana Gene Vincent
early influences:
Jelly Roll Morton
non-performers:
Allen Toussaint
1999 performers:
Billy Joel Curtis Mayfield Paul McCartney Del Shannon Dusty Springfield Bruce Springsteen The Staple Singers
early influences:
Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys Charles Brown
non-performers:
George Martin
2000 performers:
Eric Clapton Earth, Wind & Fire Lovin' Spoonful The Moonglows Bonnie Raitt James Taylor
early influences:
Nat "King" Cole Billie Holiday
sidemen:
Hal Blaine King Curtis James Jamerson Scotty Moore Earl Palmer
non-performers:
Clive Davis
2001 performers:
Aerosmith Solomon Burke The Flamingos Michael Jackson Queen Paul Simon Steely Dan Ritchie Valens
sidemen:
James Burton Johnnie Johnson
non-performers:
Chris Blackwell
2002 performers:
Isaac Hayes Brenda Lee Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers Gene Pitney Ramones Talking Heads
sidemen:
Chet Atkins
non-performers:
Jim Stewart
2003 performers:
AC/DC The Clash Elvis Costello & the Attractions The Police Righteous Brothers
sidemen:
Benny Benjamin Floyd Cramer Steve Douglas
non-performers:
Mo Ostin
2004 performers:
Jackson Browne The Dells George Harrison Prince Bob Seger Traffic ZZ Top
lifetime achievement award in the non-performer category:
Jann S. Wenner
2005 performers:
Buddy Guy The O'Jays The Pretenders Percy Sledge U2
lifetime achievement award in the non-performer category:
Frank Barsalona Seymour Stein
2006 performers:
Black Sabbath Blondie Miles Davis Lynyrd Skynyrd Sex Pistols
lifetime achievement award in the non-performer category:
Herb Alpert & Jerry Moss
2007 performers:
Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five R.E.M. The Ronettes Patti Smith Van Halen
31
Texas Flood
ID: 4905267 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 13:38
Perhaps they should change the name from the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame to the Pop Music Hall of fame or just the Music Hall of fame.
32
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 14:19
From Great One's link in #27:
When you listen to a classic-rock station today, why don't they play the Velvet Underground? Why is it always Boston and Led Zeppelin?
Having worked in radio, I will answer that question. Most radio stations use focus groups that test songs to dictate their playlists, mostly over the phone, but sometimes in auditorium settings. Boston and Led Zepplin remain incredibly popular, while the Velvet Underground, never very popular to begin with, do not test well most likely.
But it isn't uncommon to hear Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side" on the radio, where, thankfully, he talks instead of sings. While the author of the piece about the Velvet Underground gushes:
The way Lou Reed wrote and sang about drugs and sex, about the people around him -- it was so matter-of-fact. I believed every word of "Heroin." Reed could be romantic in the way he portrayed these crazy situations, but he was also intensely real. It was poetry and journalism.
All I remember about listening to "Heroin" is that I never cared to hear it again, but then I never tried the stuff, so maybe I just couldn't relate to lyrics like
"when I stick that spike into my veins, and I feel just like Jesus' son"(from memory, don't quote me).
Even though I wasn't a fan of theirs, I related more to Kiss proclaiming,
"I want to rock and roll all night, and party every day!!"
Now that's poetry and journalism rock and roll style.
33
Great One Sustainer
ID: 053272014 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 14:56
"Heroin" must have had quite an impact if you only heard it once and remembered the lyrics! :)
34
Great One Sustainer
ID: 053272014 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 14:57
And I have The Doors Soundtrack to thank for helping me discover that song.
35
Tosh Leader
ID: 057721710 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 15:14
The very first cassette tape I bought with my own money was Alive! back in 1976. I was a member of the KISS army, and owned action figures and a "KISS Your Face Makeup" kit.
I wanted to go see them in concert, but my Mom heard that they bit the heads off of bats ... and wouldn't let a 5th grader go to the concert.
36
blue hen Leader
ID: 710321114 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 15:27
I thought that was Black Sabbath...
37
Perm Dude
ID: 140201014 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 15:31
Mom wasn't too up on the details of the metal bands...
38
Wilmer McLean
ID: 281156306 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 16:16
39
Tosh Leader
ID: 057721710 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 17:30
That's a great picture.
And no, my Mom wasn't up to date on the metal band rumors. She wouldn't let me go see Black Sabbath either. I asked.
40
Pancho Villa
ID: 1311532913 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 19:17
In 1977 I was touring through Canada with a band and playing at the club in the Holiday Inn in Winnipeg. One night a bunch of long-haired guys came into the club and we struck up a conversation on break. They were roadies and members of the band that was opening for Kiss the following night at the Coliseum where the Blue Bombers and the Jets used to play. The opening act was called Cheap Trick(I'd never heard of them)with a weird looking guitarist and drummer and rock star looking singer and bassist.
They snuck us into the sound check the next day, which was a big deal since no one in the general public was ever to see Kiss without their makeup at the time. So, I'm hanging out at the sounboard talking with a roadie, and he's bitching about Kiss being Aholes, especially Simmons, that all they cared about was the show at the expense of the music. Then he tells me he's going to dinner and would I watch the board. The guy's not gone 5 minutes when Simmons starts screaming from the stage, then bounds off the stage and starts running up to the soundboard. He proceeds to verbally assault me saying that when he starts spitting blood he wants the reverb turned up as high as it can go. Then he suddenly says, "Hey, you're not the regular guy, where's the regular guy?" "Uh, he went to dinner."
Then he turned kind of sheepish and nicely said, "When you see him, tell him to turn the reverb all the way up when I spit the blood." "Uh, OK."
True story.
41
Tree
ID: 370191018 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 19:41
IOW, what specifically, does RAP have to do with R&R??
since i don't know what IOW means, i'm curious of you're asking this prior to reading 14, or ignoring it.
if you've listened to any rock radio of the past 10 years (at least), you would have heard the imprints of rap all over rock - be it in cadence, flow, lyrics, or the use of turntables as an instrument.
and heck, you could argue that RUN-DMC was a rock band, because from the very beginning, they were using crunching guitar chords and such. similarly, the Beastie Boys started playing their own instruments from Paul's Boutique (their second, and greatest, album), including guitars, bass, and drums.
look at who has been already elected. while i see the merit of people like Robert Johnson, Jimmie Rodgers, the Coasters, Aretha Franklin, Marvin Gaye, B.B. King, HANK WILLIAMS, WOODY GUTHRIE, Berry Gordy Jr, Bessie Smith, The Four Seasons, the Four Tops, Simon & Garfunkel, Louis Armstrong, Frankie Lymon, Etta James, BOB MARLEY, The Jackson Five, P-Funk, Mahalia Jackson, Bill Monroe, James Taylor, Michael Jackson, Isaac Hayes, Miles Davis, the Sex Pistols, The Clash, and countless others on the list, there are plenty of arguments to be made that any one on the above list is NOT rock and roll.
but they are. because R&R encompasses all styles of music, and all manner of influences. be it from the blues or country or jazz or doo-wop or even rap, rock and roll is has always been an evolving, exciting, eclectic style of music.
and it's a TRAVESTY that at least one of the trio of Black Flag, Husker Du, or the Minutement have not yet been elected to the Hall.
42
TB Sherpa
ID: 031811922 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 21:42
Dude, you used eclectic in a post. That is my favorite adjective.
Out of the three you named, I would have to give the nod to Black Flag over the other two because #1 Henry Rollins is an animal, but really because #2 they were the first hardcore, heavy metal punk band I ever listened to and actually liked their music. I am surprised you didn't list The Urinals over Minutemen. All seemed to be influenced by the Ramones, though.
43
TB Sherpa
ID: 031811922 Wed, Jan 10, 2007, 21:44
Man, I meant to also tell Pancho Villa that story is awesome. I remember reading another post of yours that I thought was great having to do with another band back in the day, but what a great story to share. Thanks.
44
Tree
ID: 1411442914 Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 13:32
I am surprised you didn't list The Urinals over Minutemen. All seemed to be influenced by the Ramones, though.
you think? man, i don't hear the Ramones in the Minutemen at all. if anything, i feel like the Minutemen paved the way for "other" forms of music to be used in punk - in their case, jazz.
and millions upon millions of people have heard the Minutemen, and probably don't even realize it.
unless i'm mistaken, the them to Jackass is the D. Boon-penned "Corona"...
45
Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 49848118 Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 14:33
The Ramones were the first American punk band. They opened up the genre for future generations.
46
tastethewaste
ID: 42017617 Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 22:37
Think Faith No More or Living Colour will get in? Minutemen should definitely be in. At least Watt.
47
Perm Dude
ID: 2603119 Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 22:43
Lenny Kravitz someday might also be a good choice.
48
Tree
ID: 20091122 Thu, Jan 11, 2007, 23:22
The Ramones were the first American punk band. They opened up the genre for future generations.
i'd argue that. i think of MC5 or maybe the Stooges as the first American punk band.
49
Perm Dude
ID: 2603119 Fri, Jan 12, 2007, 00:16
Guys, this has nothing to do with the Rock Hall (which means I should probably put it somewhere else!). I am trying to expand some of the music I listen to, and am wondering if there is a good site that makes suggestions along the lines of "if you like X, you might like Y" with music samples. My tastes run more toward pop and acoustic guitar-oriented rock (plus jazz and Christian music, but I have that covered).
Site suggestions appreciated.
pd
50
Wilmer McLean
ID: 281156306 Fri, Jan 12, 2007, 00:43
Amazon.com has a "Customers who bought this item also bought" link-list with track samples.
For example:
For "America - The Complete Greatest Hits" the link-list is:
Customers who bought this item also bought America - The Complete Greatest Hits ~ America Seals & Crofts - Greatest Hits ~ Seals & Crofts The Very Best of England Dan & John Ford Coley ~ England Dan & John Ford Coley Doobie Brothers - Greatest Hits ~ Doobie Brothers Gordon Lightfoot - Complete Greatest Hits ~ Gordon Lightfoot The Very Best of Chicago: Only the Beginning ~ Chicago The Complete Hit Singles ~ Three Dog Night The Very Best of Dan Fogelberg ~ Dan Fogelberg Explore similar items : Music (50)
Influenced by: * Mott the Hoople * Junior Murvin * Sly & Robbie * The Sex Pistols * The Ramones * Bob Dylan * Jimmy Cliff * The Stooges * The Who * The Equals * New York Dolls
Followers: * New Model Army * U2 * Angelic Upstarts * Transvision Vamp * The Adverts * Riff Raff * Izzy Stradlin * Celtas Cortos * Corey Glover * R.E.M. * Anti-Flag * The Turbo A.C.'s * Moral Crux * Teenage Frames * The Want * Selby Tigers * Sugarcult * The Peawees * Killradio * Arctic Monkeys
Similar Artists: * The Specials * The Pretenders * The Pogues * The Jam * The Damned * The Undertones * The Alarm * Chelsea * Wah! * New Model Army * Johnny Thunders * Ellen Foley * Stiv Bators * The Stranglers * Social Distortion * Madness * The Dictators * Elvis Costello * X-Ray Spex * The Vibrators * Sham 69
those actually aren't bad lists, but again, i think a lot of this falls into my "eclectic" argument, so the bands that are related will be quite varied.
52
C1-NRB
ID: 17348117 Sat, Jan 13, 2007, 22:58
There is a site called Pandora that does a song analysis of what you listen to. They match up individual songs based on a matrix of compositional elements- beat, instrumentation, lyrical style, etc.- and recommend other songs that are similar to what you request.
I've not ever done it, but people who have find the suggestions intriguing, to say the least.
53
blue hen
ID: 470161021 Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 03:15
I use Pandora all day at work. I'm actually not a big fan of hearing 50 songs I don't know because they sound like Pearl Jam, but sometimes it's good background music. I wish someone would take the Pandora interface and change the algorithm - "People who liked that song also liked this song." That would be a more realistic comparison than saying "These two songs have the same tone qualities."
54
Tree
ID: 350231414 Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 15:28
i'm actually not a big fan of hearing 50 songs I don't know because they sound like Pearl Jam,
well, it could be worse. they could actually BE pearl jam, who history will show as the Nickelback of grunge...
55
blue hen
ID: 470161021 Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 16:38
You're definitely going to have to clarify that jab a bit. I definitely can't follow if you're saying Nickelback is going to be so huge that Pearl Jam will be viewed as a knockoff of them. Or if you're saying that Nickelback burned out quickly, and Pearl Jam will too (which doesn't make sense since they've been around for 16 years already). Plus, I think Nickelback themselves are basically considered grunge already so that's like calling someone the Tom Glavine of baseball.
Hmm. I'll keep trying to figure it out.
Incidentally, I have a windows media mp3 mix that's all Pearl Jam (randomly choosing from about 150 songs or so), and I've been pretty happy with it.
56
Motley Crue Dude
ID: 439372011 Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 16:49
bh, don't listen to Tree.
He's the Roddy Piper of the RotoGuru Message Boards.
57
Tree
ID: 350231414 Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 19:26
Nickelback is hardly grunge. they are rock lite, at best.
which i suppose is what i'm saying. Pearl Jam is basically grunge lite. they had a couple of spectacular records early on, and were (and may still be) a phenomenal live act.
but on recorded medium, in recent years, they've been dreck.
58
Great One
ID: 201155199 Sun, Jan 14, 2007, 20:27
and everyone else since then tries to sound like those 2 albums - Creed Nickelback Puddleofmudd Default Lifehouse SevenMaryThree TheCalling Tantric 3DoorsDown Staind Fuel DaysofTheNew etc etc... right on Tree.
One of my favorite live show moments. Zebrahead show where they sadly announce Creed has broken up. In tribute to Creed they would like to cover one of their songs. The crowd groans... then they start playing "Even Flow"... crowd goes nuts. Classic.
59
Pancho Villa
ID: 42231410 Thu, Mar 15, 2007, 09:37
Anyone watch the R & R Hall of Fame induction show on MTV? REM and Aretha aside it could have been a lot better. Would have been nice to see Van Halen play, but I guess Eddie is in rehab and without him the band is useless.
Eventhough they were godawful it was nice to see the Ronettes get recognized and Patti Smith still rocks, eventhough see looks terrible almost ill. I hope she's ok!
I'm not sure what qualifies one for the R&R HOF but IMHO it should be renamed to the POP MUSIC HOF.
62
katietx
ID: 3810431417 Sat, Mar 24, 2007, 21:25
Thought this was a good place to tell y'all that sarge is currently sitting at a ZZ Top concert. No, I had no interest in going. May it rock his world. ;-)
I had a moment of weakness when it was rumored that Kid Rock would also be performing, but that turned out to be just a rumor.
63
Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016 Fri, Dec 14, 2007, 09:25
Maddona - I suppose John Mellencamp - I suppose The Ventures - great choice, very influential in the surf instrumental genre which influenced guys like Jimi Hendrix Leonard Cohen - Geez, this is not the poet's Hall of Fame. Really, who thinks of Leonard Cohen when you think about rock and roll? Get these Greenwich Village smack-heads who vote for Patti Smith and the Velvet Underground out of the voting process. The Dave Clark 5 - Ok, they wanted a British invasion band, but they could have done much better. The Zombies would have been the best choice, followed by the Hollies. The DC5 did have a sax player, but I only remember him playing one note drones, never a solo. Dave Clark was a joke as a drummer, usually just hitting the snare with both sticks. Their best song, IMO, was "Because", a ballad with the most rinky-dink Vox Continental organ solo in the history of that pathetic keyboard.
64
Great One Sustainer
ID: 053272014 Fri, Dec 14, 2007, 09:27
how about some Zeppelin clips from Monday night? surely someone can find something...
65
Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016 Fri, Dec 14, 2007, 10:09
No clips, but a rather annoying "review" by conservative pundit Diana West.
66
Great One Sustainer
ID: 053272014 Fri, Dec 14, 2007, 10:25
67
Texas Flood
ID: 351131916 Fri, Dec 14, 2007, 19:15
Stairway To Heaven may be the greatest rock song of all time. I'm sure that Zepplin has its detractors, but IMHO they defined an entire new genre of music....Metal.
The Ventures fantastic choice.
Mellancamp and Madonna....I've never bought any of thier music, most likely never will.