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0 Subject: R.I.P. Robert Jordan - Wheel of Time

Posted by: Khahan
- [486552412] Tue, Sep 18, 2007, 20:57

I know over the past few years I've talked to a number of people on these boards about the Wheel of Time series. Well, I just found out that it is over. The author, Robert Jordan, who suffered from a rare blood disease which caused a thickening of the arteries passed away yesterday. Its very sad on many levels. He was a great author and a huge talent at story telling. He and his work will be missed.
1ChicagoTRS
      ID: 344311322
      Tue, Sep 18, 2007, 21:26
It was a decent series...I made it through like the first 6 books as they were released but gave up on it at some point. I think just too much time between books and started getting lost by all of the characters. Sad to hear of his passing though.
2Khahan
      ID: 486552412
      Tue, Sep 18, 2007, 21:34
That is big critism of his series: Too much. Too many characters. Too many subplots. Too little wrapping things up. Book 6 was probably the bottom of the barrel. Its gets decent again after that. Aside from the first book, I don't think any of them were 'great,' but the series as a whole was pretty epic.
3Perm Dude
      ID: 10845189
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 00:18
Book 6 was a stretch, but I read through them all essentially after book ten came out right after the other.

But the series was very ponderous, and with Crossroads at Twilight moving the plot along only a couple of days (@ about 700 pages) I really started to question my own committment to a series which clearly got away from the author.

I understand he was working on a wrap-up volume. Don't know if he finished it, but given the amount of money involved I'm sure that the publisher would like to see the manuscript anyway with an eye toward getting another writer to finish it off.
4TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 01:00
RIP. I enjoyed his early Conan books and the WOT series.

I didn't get into WOT until around 1995 and I believe 5 had already been written and number six was released by the time I finished FOH. I loved the series all the way through book 7. POD (#8) was an okay book, but nothing great and even though I enjoy it now, I wasn't a big fan of WH when it first came out. COT really turned me off the entire series. I can read every other book, time permitting, from front to back, but I have to put COT down for days at a time and fight my way through it. It was annoying that new characters and plots were being introduced 10 books into the series while other ones just hung out there. When KOD came out, I let myself get pulled back in and enjoyed it but the series didn't feel the same. After being with the series for over 12 years, I really would like some closure.
5holt
      ID: 587112719
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 02:19
I've read a lot of fantasy and SF. I read the first two books of this series and just never felt compelled to continue. Whenever I talk about books with someone, I never find myself recommending WoT. You know, there are some books that you feel strongly about, for whatever reason, and you try to get people to read them. I never felt that way with this series. I guess some of the SF books I've read have been so astounding that fantasy books in general just fall flat for me any more.
6Perm Dude
      ID: 10845189
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 10:20
I know this probably shouldn't be a jumping off point for another author, but anyone else reading Mercedes Lackey? About a year ago I picked up the first volume of her series The Obsidian Trilogy and was hooked. Great trilogy. Now I'm working my way through her Valdemar universe series.
7TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 22:29
Looks good, PD. I will check it out.

I've thought about starting a SF/Fantasy thread several times just to get different ideas from people and recommend some. I've become a big fan of Robin Hobb. I enjoyed all three of these trilogies: The Farseer Trilogy, The Liveship Traders Trilogy, and The Tawny Man Trilogy.
http://www.robinhobb.com/books-main.html - That link gives a brief description of each.
8Perm Dude
      ID: 10845189
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 22:53
Interesting. Looks like my local library only has a couple of books by that author.

Luckily I belong to a cool book trading site, www.paperbackswap.com which helps feed the habit when my local library is missing books in a series.
9TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 23:19
For sure start with the Farseer Trilogy. The Liveship Traders started a bit slow for me so I skipped to the Tawny Man, but when it referenced characters from Liveship I gave it another shot and was glad I did.

I got my son started in The Belgariad and Mallorean series from David Eddings a few years ago and he has become a fan of fantasy. He's also a fan of Raymond Feist and the Riftwar and Serpentwar Series. He just finished Enders Game and might branch out into more Sci Fi.
10Perm Dude
      ID: 10845189
      Wed, Sep 19, 2007, 23:34
I'm working through Feist myself. Good writer. I started on some Eddings about a year ago, and found the writing to be a little too self-congratulatory. But sometimes that's what you get in fantasy fiction (particularly heroic fiction): a target audience of about 12-15 year old boys sometimes.
11TB
      Sherpa
      ID: 031811922
      Thu, Sep 20, 2007, 01:46
I agree. My son just turned 15, so he was probably 12 or 13 when he first read it. Not something I would recommend for most adults, but it was one of my first fantasy series (after Dragonlance) and as a kid you can relate to Garion.

If you are into Feist, I enjoyed the Empire Series he wrote with Janny Wurts, which ties in with the Riftwar books. Daughter of the Empire, Servant of the Empire and Mistress of the Empire. It's been a while since I read the Conclave of Shadows trilogy but it's about par with most of his books. Jimmy, Pug, and Tomas were some great characters.

Another series I was into for a while was Terry Goodkind's The Sword of Truth series. The first book was great and I enjoyed the next couple of books in the series, but it's gotten pretty horrible since Pillars of Creation.

I still have most of my books packed in boxes (semi-recent move) but I know I am missing many more good authors and series.
12holt
      ID: 587112719
      Thu, Sep 20, 2007, 01:47
what do you mean by "too self-congratulatory"?
13Perm Dude
      ID: 39858209
      Thu, Sep 20, 2007, 14:40
TB: Yeah, I read the Empire series earlier this year, and just finished the first of the Conclave titles. Getting through it!

The Goodkind titles started out very very well, but then it started getting a little preachy to me (they became political polemics rather than sticking to moving the plot along). I like them best on the few times they see the main characters through the eyes of other characters. We've come to know Richard and the others so well it is kind of fun to see them through others' eyes. But I hope the author picks it up in the next title.

holt: I mean that sometimes the writer seems so intent on "writing cute" that it detracts from the overall writing of the work. Particularly when the phrasing is designed to get the reader to pause at the cute turns of phrase in the text, I just feel like the writer is saying "Look at my writing! Isn't it great!" rather than just moving the story along.

Tolkein was guilty of this as well, particularly in The Hobbit, when he would throw in asides at the reader. As a young teen those kinds of things were good in keeping me into the book. Now they just annoy me.
14Khahan
      ID: 5881211
      Thu, Sep 20, 2007, 15:03
Since we're spinning off into recommendations, I have a great one for the masses. An author named George RR Martin has a series out. The first book, A Game of Thrones, starts out a little slow, but by chapter 3, I was sucked in completely.

This is easily the best series I have read (not to set expectations too high!!). I finished the first book the day that the last WoT book came out. I read the next 3 books in the series before I got the last WoT and never regretted the decision.

I will say this: If you like to have a main protagonist and a main antogonist set within the first few chapters..you'll be disappointed. Every time I thought I had this figured out, somebody went and died on me!!!

I consider it a 'real world' setting in that there is no superhuman character who constantly defies the odds and survives unthought of miseries and unspeakable horrors to save the day. Just like in the real world, any character in the book seems to be a viable target for Death's sickle (though by the end of book 4, I think I have a good idea of what is going on finally and who that great protagonist may be).
15Perm Dude
      ID: 39858209
      Thu, Sep 20, 2007, 17:25
Sounds interesting. Is this part of a longer series called A Song of Ice and Fire? I've never read anything by him, but his website is here.
16Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Oct 27, 2009, 01:48
New Robert Jordan Wheel of Time book coming out.

The final Wheel of Time book was partially finished by Jordan when he passed away, but somehow it is now 3 books.
17Frick
      ID: 4945458
      Tue, Oct 27, 2009, 08:43
From my understanding only the prologue was written. The writer that was tasked to finish the series has a blog if you are interested and he posted awhile ago that if there the final book was a single book it would have been to big to print. I want to say it would have been 750-800k words, the other books in the series are around 300k each IIRC.

Given the number of story lines that need some finalization I can't say that I'm surprised. I'm looking forward to the book. I started the series when I was in middle school and I'm glad that the series will finally be finished before my kids start middle school.
18Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 22:13
Just started the final (14th) book in the Wheel of Time series. Anyone else reading it?
19sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Fri, Mar 22, 2013, 22:30
No, but post 14 was somewhat prescient, with Game of Thrones now being a series, game and I thought I heard movie.
20Khahan
      ID: 342292311
      Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 12:29
Have another author to recommend, though any who finished WoT should be familiar with him - Brandon Sanderson. Pick up his mist born trilogy. It starts off kind of poorly. First chapter or two I thought were very cliche an almost amateurish (hate to say that about him). But I finished the first book and read everything else he's written. Mostly fantasy with a mix of sci-fi sprinkled in. He takes a unique perspective on magic in his worlds.
21Khahan
      ID: 342292311
      Sat, Mar 23, 2013, 12:34
Oh and I missed pd's post. Yes, I bought it the day it came out. Loved it. Sanderson did a wonderful job of wrapping things up. The last book was probably one of the 3 best in the series.
22Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Tue, Apr 02, 2013, 14:03
Agree--great wrap up.

I'm thinking about diving into the Thieves World series next, but the way the WoT was done makes me think I should perhaps pick up Sanderson's books.

Thank goodness for BookMooch.
23Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 11:30
Anyone read David Farland? I've got a half dozen or so of his books on my to-read shelf (though, on series fiction, I always try to get all the books on-hand before starting!).

He's apparently going through every parents's nightmare with his 16-year-old son.
24Khahan
      ID: 39432178
      Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 13:48
Pick up the mistborn trilogy and another series from Sanderson The Way of Kings (book 1 was just released a few months ago).

All I could do at the end of Mistborn trilogy was say, "wow." My wife loved it too.

And the Way of Kings series is the next big WoT/Game of Thrones type epic series. Only its already sounds better just from one book.
25Frick
      ID: 432501512
      Fri, Apr 12, 2013, 14:18
I just finished the Mistborn trilogy and Alloy of Law, a single book set a couple of hundred years after the Mistborn trilogy, where technology is allowed to advance. Almost seems like steampunk as guns exist and cars and railroads are expanding. I agree that the beginning of the Mistborn trilogy wasn't awesome, like say Wheel of Time, but it is very good by the end.

I'll have to start Way of Kings soon. Hopefully it will be finished faster then WoT. I think my kids are just a little younger then when I started reading the series, and at the time I think it was already on book 3 or 4.
26loki
      ID: 7116710
      Mon, Apr 22, 2013, 13:56
This is an interesting thread that I have not gone to before. Unless I missed them,I did not see Asimov's Foundation series and Frank Herbert's Dune in the discussion.I hope I am not dating myself too much with these titles, but they are true classics in the scifi genre. I have read some of the series mentioned including Sword of Truth which lost steam after the 1st few books, but regained it in the final trilogy. Tolkien I read in college, but I only recently finished Dances With Dragons. J.R.R. Martin is planning on 7 books in the series, but he is in his 60's and appears to be in poor physical condition. Considering how long has elapsed between books, I hope he is able to finish it. I considered reading WoT, but was put off by the length of the series, and that reviews indicated it was written for teens. From the comments it seems that I was mistaken about the target audience. It is difficult to find good scifi/fantasy in the myriad number of volumes that have been published, but it seems that the Mistborn Trilogy would be worthwhile reading.What is the story line? Not a series, but I would recommend Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner.
27Perm Dude
      ID: 201027169
      Mon, Apr 22, 2013, 14:04
The Wheel of Time is good if you can make the commitment and read straight through. Because of the breadth of the books, you can very easily get lost if you have a year or so between reading one book and the next.

Foundation and Dune are two classics! And more food for thought:

NPR's 100 best science fiction and fantasy works of all time.

I used to read a *lot* of science fiction, but I've gravitated more toward sword and sorcery fantasy for some time now.
28loki
      ID: 7116710
      Mon, Apr 22, 2013, 14:36
Thanks for the list. Scifi was my mainstay years ago, and have recently gravitated back to the genre. I have read eight of the 1st ten books on the NPR list and am currently reading Starship Troopers. Supposedly the book is like the movie in title only.
29holt
      ID: 1414114
      Tue, Apr 23, 2013, 20:29
I love Asimov's Foundation series. Looking at the wiki page now. I think I've read them all but it's sad that I can read a synopsis of a book and still not be sure if I've read the book or not.

Larry Niven is also awesome. Especially his books with Jerry Pournelle. Mote in God's Eye and Gripping Hand are monumental.

Heinlein is another personal favorite.

A little off topic: It irritates me that sci-fi movies are so weak and small in scope as compared to sci-fi novels. I wish that more of the general public knew the feeling of reading a great sci-fi novel, but based on movies and tv they probably figure, why bother?
30Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Tue, Feb 10, 2015, 17:16
About that bad Wheel of Time TV pilot.
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