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Subject: Ideas for 2006
Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 11:29
Before we put the 2005 in mothballs, I thought I'd solicit any ideas you have on possible changes for next year.
I thought that price changes exhibited about the right sensitivity this year. Only a very few teams were able to climb over $6000 by the end of the season.
The provisional golfer rule seemed to work well, although many teams never set one up, and some teams that did set up a PG obviously didn't understand the mechanics. (For example, a team would specify Tiger Woods as the PG with a roster that would not make Tiger affordable if any single golfer had to be replaced.)
I'll probably rework the prize structure a little bit, although the general framework will likely be the same. For example, I could give a prize to the team with the highest $value at the end of the season.
What do you think? What rules or provisions could be added or tweaked? What did you think of the price sensitivities? |
| 1 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 11:42
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Actually Liters was at 6k in week 27, but with the top priced guys not finishing well has lost roster value since.
With regards to the top priced guys, does it make sense that Tiger or Vijay lose value, albeit minimal of they don't win? Besides some of Tiger's absurd streaks it isn't practical to think that the highest priced player will win week in and week out.
Also is there a way to increase the value of the Majors, with the US Open it would almost be a credible strategy to go invalid, save the trades, due to the possibility of your team finishing with a large positive if only 1 or 2 players make the cut. 2 years ago at Balturol you probably could have had all 4 players active for the final round and had a positive.
Overall I like the game, especially for not having to wait for the weekend and making changes due to the cut.
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| 2 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 11:46
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Also would it be possible to have the current projected cut show up on the Tourney Standings page?
That or maybe highlight the players name or total score to show where they are in regards to the cut line.
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| 3 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 12:15
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How about a Mulligan week? Just eliminate the worst (highest) tourney score from every teams season total. Although participation seems to be pretty consistent, I imagine some people gave up after forgetting to make roster moves before a freeze. It would only affect the season standings. I'm not sure that it would change the final standings much, but it would encourage people to keep playing.
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| 4 | Mac Daddy
ID: 399371811
Fri, Oct 28, 2005, 13:46
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I'd love to see in the standings how you moved up or down in the standings over the time frame you are searching on, i.e. +6 that week, +60 since the US Open. Something like that.
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| 5 | Challenger
Donor
ID: 481126818
Tue, Nov 01, 2005, 12:22
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How's this for a unique idea?
We can use roster value to buy trades...why not reverse it and use trades to buy roster cash?
However, I would suggest it be limited as I would not think it would be fair for a dormant team to slide in and trade for roster cash for say a major in attempt to win the prize for the major.
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| 6 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Nov 01, 2005, 13:05
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To Frick's point about the majors, I'd like to see a penalty to scores for invalid rosters for difficult weeks. Perhaps if the cut is above par, that total could be added times 8 (4 golfers * 2 non-cut rounds) to the team's score? For instance, if the cut is +3, invalid rosters automatically have a score of 24 for that week for best ball (probably best to keep the zero for worst ball).
Hopefully this at least gets some ideas going on how to balance this. I don't think the majors need to be weighted more because if your roster is valid, you can lose a lot of ground on majors week. You just shouldn't gain on the field if you're invalid.
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| 7 | Liters
ID: 149391519
Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 16:15
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based on the unveiling of the new point system for the PGA, maybe you can tie in the points somehow to equate to extra dollars if you get so many points a week or a trades or maybe an extra birdie for so many points earned.
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| 8 | Liters
ID: 149391519
Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 16:50
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sorry didn't see that the point changes wouldn't take effect until 2007
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| 9 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 589262417
Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 20:43
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every week Guru shows how many people have certain golfers during the tournament. Can we somehow incorporate that in the scoring. Something to the effect of the football pickoff game. Every week in football pickoff you can easily jump 40 to 50 positions if you have a good week. You are never out of it. Im just not smart enough to figure out how to do it. Just my 2 cents
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| 10 | sarge33rd
ID: 670916
Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 22:31
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would probably only work as a "side game" and thus would most likely more trouble than its worth, but what if a manager could only buy any given player "X" number of times? Something of an "elimination" game.
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| 11 | Nuclear Gophers
ID: 589262417
Wed, Nov 02, 2005, 22:35
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I thought there was already an elimination rule in Guru golf. Every golfer Sarge picks up, we eliminate him from our list.....
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| 12 | sarge33rd
ID: 670916
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 08:38
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lol NG. cute....
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| 13 | katietx
ID: 56723120
Thu, Nov 03, 2005, 10:09
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NG...I have made that my rule this year. As you can see it worked quite well for my wildyams team. ;-)
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| 14 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 1584348
Mon, Nov 07, 2005, 11:14
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First of all, let me second the idea of a prize for the highest end of season roster value ;)
Regarding the game itself, I do not think there is much to tinker with. It is a real simple game to play, but still challenging to balance keeping a roster together each week that will perform well keeping in mind trade preservation. I have especially not mastered coming up with an optimum strategy for WB, who seem to consistently outperform my BB teams.
I'd love to be able to request some sort of feature that would let us prepare our roster a week in advance if we are not near a computer Monday through Wednesday, but even trying to come up with suggesting the rules behind something like this make it something not worth pursuing. Finding a team-sitter has not seemed to be an issue.
Tweaks I would like to see, probably deal more with just some fun info that would be neat to add to the standings side. For each guru-golf team, it would be nice to see things like tourney's won and top 10 finishes.
Thanks again for another great season.
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| 15 | Chas_Man
ID: 14103459
Mon, Nov 07, 2005, 14:07
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Actually I figured out my problem with the GURU GOLF! I for some reason went brain dead on odd weeks. My two teams would've finished 2nd and 9th in Best Ball. In worst ball I would've gotten 1st and 3rd :) Actually I really enjoyed the game. It was fun! I spent over half the year trying to get the best and worst ball teams with the same team. Actually It seemed to work and was fun trying to do that. With that in mind I should've had the best two teams with the inclusion of both games combined :)
Anyways I enjoyed the season. Thanks GURU!
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| 16 | sarge33rd
ID: 148422311
Tue, Nov 08, 2005, 09:53
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hmmmm wonder if in recognition of the "sarge facator", I could get a handi-cap? Maybe, doubling my roster value and allowed squad size? Maybe then, I could break into the top 100, or *shudder* not get beaten black and blue by my wife. :(
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| 17 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 14:51
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I thought I'd comment on the suggestions made above, all which were considered.
[1] - I realize that the highest priced guys are at risk of a small loss if they make the cut but do not finish particularly well. That's a risk you have to take with a stud. I think that's appropriate. Otherwise, it would be virtually impossible for guys like Tiger to ever lose value.
[2] - I've considered publishing the projected cut line, but this is not nearly as simple as it might seem, and is not data that I currently track. For now, I think it's better if you simply look at the overall scoreboard at pgatour.com or some similar site.
[3] - Mulligan week: I liked that idea, and I'm going to use it this year.
[4] - I'll have to think about this one. I suspect it's not as simple as it seems. Besides, you can see that historical info directly by looking at a team page.
[5] - Turning in trades for extra cash. I thought about it, but decided to pass. I'm just not sure this is a good idea, and it also complicates the game. An interesting thought, though, and maybe one that I will reconsider in the future.
[6] - while it may not be "fair" to gain on the field with an invalid week in a major, I suspect that's not a viable strategy. The "cure" for this scenario seems unduly complicated.
[7-8] - I didn't really look into this, since it's evidently moot until next year.
[9] - I don't know how to do this without unduly complicating the game.
[10-13] - I think this fails the KISS principle (keep it simple, stupid)
[14] - I did add a prize for the highest franchise value.
Setting rosters in advance is fraught with programming complexities. However, if anyone wants to email me a set of proposed roster moves, it is not a big problem for me to execute those moves after the repricing.
I'll consider adding additional data in the standings as the season emerges. The first challenge is program the mulligan rule. I think I know how I will approach it, but it isn't done yet.
Thanks to everyone for sharing your ideas!
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| 18 | Taxman
SuperDude
ID: 029463114
Fri, Jan 27, 2006, 21:27
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Changes look good. I really like the "mulligan" week as well as the contest periods (especially the "4 Majors combined").
Should be much fun for all.
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| 19 | louky
ID: 550511210
Mon, Feb 20, 2006, 21:53
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Guru, thanks for the game, great to play, well run, and the rules/pricing are well tought out. Curious how hard it would be to add a % making the cut row? Obviously it would only be nessesary for the season stats, maybe add an extra row next to E/S season totals.
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| 20 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 17:30
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Guru, I know you're extremely busy right now so I just want to put this out there for future consideration. Is there any way you could code a page that shows how every golfer is doing hole-by-hole per round on a single page? It'd be great to be able to compare all the golfers against each other and review how everyone did for a particular week.
Thanks for all you do!
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| 21 | JL
ID: 212342316
Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 17:38
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I think it would be interesting to see what roster produced the best possible score for that week, but it's not really worth taking the time to code something that has such little value.
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| 22 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Mar 23, 2006, 20:51
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[20] - I think that would actually be fairly simple.
[21] - I'm not quite sure how to attack that, although if I do [20], then maybe someone else can figure it out.
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| 23 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 24, 2006, 14:05
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Did a Q&D attempt at [20].
Hole-by-hole scoring details for Bay Hill Invitational
I'm guessing that if anyone wanted to use this data, it would most likely want to be copied into a spreadsheet.
Maybe some hole-by-hole summaries would be interesting.
Any thoughts?
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| 24 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 24, 2006, 15:56
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Just added some summary stats by hole at the top
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| 25 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Mar 25, 2006, 16:21
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The program has now been generalized to run for any tournament, including the one in progress. It does not feed off the live stats, however. It will update after each completed round, just like the standings.
Let me know if you would like any additional tweaks.
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/gallcards.pl
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| 26 | Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Sat, Mar 25, 2006, 17:16
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Guru - The 'Par' row is misaligned by one slot. It currently shows 18 Hole-in-ones on the par 3 16th for this weeks tourney.
Otherwise, thanks!
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| 27 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Mar 25, 2006, 17:39
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Got it. It looked fine in MSIE, but was off in Firefox. Apparently, MSIE was willing to overlook (or compensate for) my subtle coding error.
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| 28 | The Beezer
ID: 265172712
Sat, Mar 25, 2006, 21:41
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Wow, that's even better than I pictured it in my mind. Thanks Guru!
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| 29 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 11:01
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Program expanded to include GuruGolf tournaments in 2005 and 2004.
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| 30 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 12:11
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Program expanded to include player summaries at the far right.
I think I'm done with this. I thought about making it sortable on different columns, but I'm not sure that's warranted.
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| 31 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 12:29
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Thanks much, Guru!
Once I finish my class at the end of the semester, I'm planning on using this data to figure out how to determine the best roster for each tournament and even get some better ideas for how to build better teams. Thanks!
I hate to ask for more when you've already done more than is reasonable, but is there any way the prices for each golfer could be added in, at least going forward? If not, no problem, but it might prove useful to include for figuring out the optimal roster under a given value.
Thanks again!
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| 32 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 12:35
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Prices. Good idea. Will do.
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| 33 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 12:38
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It is appreciated!
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| 34 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 13:46
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Done. I tacked on two columns at the far right, one showing the opening price (the price you could have bought him for that tournament), and also the resulting price change based on the tournament results.
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| 35 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 19:57
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I wrote up a quick macro that will take the data Guru has created and calculate the optimal roster for best and worstball. The problem is that the search space is too big for my PC to handle - even limiting my search to 50 golfers takes a long time and will go up quickly with any increase from that.
I tried to be somewhat smart and limit the search to the top 50 birdie producers for the weekend, which yielded a -56 score (Ames, Furyk, Crane, Jacobson) for BB. I think this might be the best out there but there may be multiple ways to get at it. I'll try to figure out some ways to reduce the search field and get better data.
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| 36 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 19:59
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Well, it just occurred to me that for BB I can just use the players that played all 4 rounds. Duh. WB might prove more challenging since cut guys have to be considered. That's probably harder than BB for that reason alone.
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| 37 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 20:55
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I retried the BB search for the Player's Championship and came up with a -56 again searching on all golfers that made the cut. I added in some controls to return the cheapest foursome with that score and came up with Ames, Furyk, Jacobsen, and Green for $3810. Fun stuff - I'll play around with it more as I have time in the future.
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| 38 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 23:58
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I built a macro too using Excel and have been playing around with the TPC scores. It would take too long to run every combo, so I just ran it using the top 30 golfers. Found -56 as the best BB score too. Did not put any $$$ logic in the macro, mine found Ames, Furyk, Parry, and Jacobson.
My macro also looks for the best WB score. To have it only go through 30 or so golfers, I sorted the field by #holes double bogey and worse, then number of holes bogey. Just ran against that top 30 against and found Calcaveccia, McCarron (missed cut), Beem, and Langer scored a WB of +79.
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| 39 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Fri, Apr 21, 2006, 13:09
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Is there any way to see how many times a team has had the winner of the tournament?
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| 40 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Apr 21, 2006, 13:34
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No. Hadn't even thought about capturing that info.
If I added it, how would you want it shown? At first thought, the easiest way to add it would be to somehow denote those winners on the weekly scoring recap summary. List them something like this:
Baddeleyw
Would that satisfy your need?
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| 41 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Fri, Apr 21, 2006, 13:51
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That would be good, but it would be better if that were accompanied by some type of cummulative number of winners shown in the standings for each team.
I'm curious to see if the top teams also tend to choose the winner more often than other teams.
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| 42 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Apr 21, 2006, 14:46
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That would be much more difficult, as I'm not storing that data in a way that makes it readily available for the standings program to access.
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| 43 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Fri, Apr 21, 2006, 14:53
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Seems like maybe it could be figured out by determining who got the extra trade for that week? Wouldn't extra trades = # winners? Maybe that isn't easily retrieved either.
Even denoting with a subscript for a team would good. I am also interested in seeing how many times I have the winner each week, since I never seem to be close to either best ball or worst ball scores!
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| 44 | FRICK
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Sun, Apr 23, 2006, 23:05
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Guru, I just did a sort for WB by the current tournament and a team that only entered the Masters is showing up on the current week's scoring with it's Masters' score.
I doubt it really effects anything, just an FYI.
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| 45 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Apr 24, 2006, 10:01
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You're right, it didn't really affect anything, but I think I have it fixed now.
Hopefully, I didn't screw up something else in the process.
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| 46 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 11:50
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Add the superscriptw on the recap page after a tournament winners name.
That was a simple adjustment. I'm still mulling over if/how to best get it in the standings page.
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| 47 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 12:52
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Guru, would it be possible to show total number of starts, cuts made on the roster page?
I don't know how many others use that information, but I find it quite useful.
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| 48 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 14:33
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Not sure what you're asking for...
Do you mean for the entire field for each tournament?
Or do you simply want the team totals for all weeks combined (i.e., the same data as shown on the standings page)?
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| 49 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 15:00
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Sorry for the confusion. Team management page. It shows all players, current prices, gain last tournament, gain last 5 tournaments.
It is information you can get by clicing on the players name and looking at the PGA page.
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| 50 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 25, 2006, 18:05
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Ahhh.
I'll think about it. If I do this, it would only include GuruGolf events, since those are the only tournaments I have the data for.
Probably do-able. Not trivial, but probably not ridiculous once I figure out an efficient way to organize the data. It would be a nice addition, wouldn't it?
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| 51 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 08:28
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It would be nice, but now that I sit here and think about it, I would probably still go to the PGA page. Golfers in general are streaky, so I find it helpful to see if a player missed several cuts early in the year and is currently hot or is in the middle of missing cuts. I guess if you looked at the cuts and the price change you should have an idea how the player has done recently.
If it isn't an easy change, it isn't needed data. Since the PGA player pages list number of tournaments, cuts made and cuts missed I thought it would be "easy" to just pull the data from the PGA pages.
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| 52 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 11:51
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OK. Check it out now!
I set it up so that it defaults to calculating cut ratios over the span of the entire GuruGolf season, but you can reset the lookback period to something shorter. You can also sort on that column (descending ratios) if you wish.
I agree that when getting down to making the final roster decisions, it's a good idea to look at the PGAtour.com details, but this may be a useful screening device.
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| 54 | Balrog
Dude
ID: 02856618
Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 12:37
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Great addition! Thanks Guru. Great idea Frick!
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| 55 | Frick@Work
Donor
ID: 3410101718
Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 13:18
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I agree, great job Guru. I like your implementation even more than my original idea.
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| 56 | G
Donor
ID: 5810561615
Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 17:49
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Very nice add.
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| 57 | Mac Daddy
ID: 386281419
Fri, Jul 14, 2006, 20:28
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Any thoughts of putting the cut number on the tourney recap page after the 2nd round? I typically go in and check only my tourney recap page and I don't check on the web for the cut line. I'd love to have them both in the same place.
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| 58 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 12:28
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I just added it to the Round 2 heading on the recap page. So far, it's only there for this week's tournament, as I don't have the data stored for prior weeks. Some day, I may go back and insert the data for those as well.
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| 59 | StLCards
Leader
ID: 31010716
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 13:08
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Another great addition! Now I don't have to keep waiting for players to tee off that didn't even make the cut ;)
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| 60 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Jul 15, 2006, 13:52
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Added a few more tweaks:
1. Show the cumulative score for each player at the end of the cut round.
2. Shade the name and cut score for players who were cut
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| 61 | Mac Daddy
ID: 44650188
Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 09:50
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Thanks Guru...of course I was away this weekend and didn't get a chance to even check it.
A couple of other things, and I would think this is further afield of where you want to go. Especially because you can find the info elsewhere. Is there some way to (on the manage roster page) tell us possibly average finish, last year's finish for that tourney? Or when I check my roster on Monday, next to the available golfers, I can see where they finished last year and/or historically? Or perhaps by scores rather than average finish. And even more diabolically, the number of birdies and eagles last year, or something similar?
Or maybe add a stats page to the game which links to the tour statistics so we can see who makes the most eagles/birdies, etc?
As an addendum to the top, if the tourney is on a different course than previous years (Opens, PGA, the New Orleans tourney this year can that be mentioned as well?
Just thinking of all the things I look at and judging from my results, it really works.
Thanks
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| 62 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 10:31
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You're right - this is not the direction I want to head. Those stats are all maintained at PGATour.com, and are easily accessed by clicking on a player's name link.
If you want to see how the field performed in the previous year's tournament, you can always check
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/gallcards.pl
which shows hole-by-hole details for the entire field, sorted by final score. I don't have that page linked into the site, but perhaps I should figure out a way to do so.
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| 63 | Mac Daddy
ID: 44650188
Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 12:50
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Actually, that link seems to do everything I really want. Thanks, perfect.
As for the other stuff, I just figured I would be happier with my less than mediocre results if I wasn't doing so much research. One stop shopping, right?
Thanks Guru.
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| 64 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 12:56
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One caveat: those historical stats are only listed for players who were in the GuruGolf database at the time of that tournament. So, for example, the stats for Simon Dyson in last year's BRitish Open are not listed, since he was only added to the game this year.
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| 65 | Mac Daddy
ID: 44650188
Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 13:13
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I understand and think that is more than enough. The problem is you set the bar so damn high, it's easy for me to think everything comes easy for you.
Thanks again.
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| 66 | JL
ID: 156141812
Tue, Jul 18, 2006, 13:18
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Have you considered adding a column on the standings page for # of tournament winners? The person that ends the season with the most tournament winners could win a sleeve of balls. It might add a little something to the game.
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