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Subject: Attn: About Time Hockey Starts II Managers
Posted by: ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
- [55122219] Sat, Feb 22, 2003, 20:02
How many of you might be interested in carrying our competition from the ice to the diamond? I'd be "game" for a free Yahoo! non-keeper league with an autopick draft.
Care to go half AL teams, half NL teams, with head-to-head scoring? We would need an even number of managers to join and can use the March 10 ATHS II standings to determine who gets to draft from which league (Week 22 ends on March 9 and Yahoo! hockey playoffs begin the following day). For example, if all 14 managers participate, at least the top seven will be guaranteed their choice of draft league in baseball; if only 10 join, preference goes to at least the top five. We'd proceed down the standings until one-half of the NL (or AL) spots has been claimed. Those stuck toward the bottom of the standings—myself included—must draft from the league that still has openings. If we have to bring in managers from outside the ATHS II group to "fill" the league, they get in line below the bottom of the standings. :-) Concerns about what to do in case MLB players change leagues after the draft or during the season? I have some very specific guidelines that I developed for a similar league in Sandbox during the 2001 and 2002 seasons; they're easily adaptable to the Yahoo! format.
Or would you prefer to draft from all MLB teams ... and simply decide between head-to-head or rotisserie scoring?
Or, wait till the pick drops next October? |
| Only the 50 most recent replies are currently shown. Click on this text to display hidden posts as well. |
| 39 | quik_ag
ID: 24016292
Sun, Mar 02, 2003, 11:47
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I'd also prefer H2H for this league
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| 40 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 461442311
Sun, Mar 02, 2003, 12:01
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I prefer H2H similar to what we have now.
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| 41 | Rogue Nine
ID: 461562813
Sun, Mar 02, 2003, 12:10
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I'll go with either, but put my vote in for H2H since that seems to be the consensus so far.
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| 42 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sun, Mar 02, 2003, 12:40
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Only possible change to regular 5x5 I would suggest is OBP for BA. Don't feel strongly about it.
Suggested settings: no maximum moves, no maximum trades, 2-day waiver and trade reject time; Aug 24 (latest possible) trade deadline.
Getting the right minimum innings pitched will be important (None; 1-10;15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, 50) with ERA and WHIP as categories, but I'll defer to someone with more experience in HTH. (I'm assuming that's going to win).
Toral
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| 43 | Taxman
Leader
ID: 271025153
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 02:32
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h2h please
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| 44 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 3515208
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 11:49
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As for settings, I like the ones that are being used for the league I'm in with philflyboy in hockey. (Bolded ones are converted for baseball) Max Moves: 25
Max Trades: No max
Waiver Time: 2 days
Trade Deadline: Aug. 24
Trade Reject: 2 days
Min Innings: 15 (7 is Yahoo default)
Roster Changes: Daily
Scoring: Standard 5x5, or use OBP (as suggested by Toral) or OBPS (my personal favorite) instead of AVG
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| 45 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 11:58
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The max moves is the controversial part of KKB's suggestion. I can well understand people not wanting to be bowled over by my scavenger hunting strategy as in hockey ;) Still, 25 strikes me as a touch too low -- especially in an autodraft league, where by its nature there is going to be some dumping of unwanteds immediately by the nature of things.
If people want a max on moves, I'll suggest doubling the number, to 50. It is supposed to be fun, this league ;)
Toral
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| 46 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 12:01
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The minimum innings strikes me as a bit too low too, though I have no experience with bats HTH. Should get in 3 or 4 starts anyway to win ERA and WHIP? Maybe 20 or 25?
Toral
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| 47 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 12:04
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And to complete my thoughts, I like OPS (OBPS) as a category in 6x6, but not 5x5, where I feel it overweights slugging (because HR and RBI are already categories) so I prefer either OPS or BA. I'll go with the flow though.
Toral
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| 48 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 3515208
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 12:54
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3 "quality" starts would be 18 innings, so maybe 20-25 would work better, as you suggested. As far as 25 max moves, that's still a fair number of moves. Most of the players in pfb's league are still under 20 moves and so are all but 5 in the hockey version of this league. However, I'll go with any of the numbers that Yahoo offers as my intent, as you figured out, is to put emphasis on managing the team you have, not on switching players every day, or every other day, or 140+ times during the season, just to rack up stats. Further, I think people would be more careful with their moves, like they are in TSN with limited trades, if there were a limit, as opposed to just making any move that looks the least bit beneficial. Sometimes it's more fun to try and work with what you've got (to a fair degree) and I've found that to be the case in all my other hockey leagues. As for OBP vs. OBPS, first OBPS does not include RBI's, so there's not a redundancy there. The only redundancy comes in HR's, and even that's not a lot. What it does do is not only bring in BB's (like OBP), but also 2B's and 3B's. I just think it's a better determination of an overall hitter than AVG or OBP. Either way, I think we're better than with AVG. After that, it's just personal preference, so whichever way is fine by me.
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| 49 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 3515208
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 12:59
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For comparisons sake, I have an auto-draft hockey team in a Yahoo Public league that has made exactly 25 moves to date. I might make 1 or 2 more moves before the end of the season (just to fill up all my man games), but I also wouldn't have made 1 or 2 moves along the way if I had a limit of 25 moves like in pfb's league, where I've made 15 moves to date.
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| 50 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 4431816
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 13:15
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If it is h2h where wins/losses are determined weekly, does it make sense to have a maximum number of free agency moves allowed per week? like maybe 2?
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| 51 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 13:20
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I'm not going to respond in kind to your sour-apples dumping on my strategy, KKB. I'm fine with a limit. I just think 25 is too low, and would suggest a little higher limit. I'll play by the rules as adopted, and -- oh yes -- "racking up stats" is what these leagues, whatever the rules, are about.
Toral
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| 52 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 3515208
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 14:23
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Toral, you know that your strategy is about picking up and dropping players to maximize games played and not about an overall team buidling. I, personally, would rather join a league where the focus is on building an overall team and sticking with it save for a few normal moves throughout the season. It's not sour apples, it's just a personal preference. Sour-apples would be if I were screaming to the heavens over your current strategy in hockey, one that is clearly within the limits of the rules. It's like the people who complain about how much money the Yankees spend. As long as it's within the rules, the Yanks are doing nothing wrong. However, that doesn't mean that a change in the rules wouldn't benefit the league and the competition as a whole and that's all I'm asking for and I'm glad you're fine with it. As for a number, Yahoo allows up to 40 as a set number (the only option after that is no max) and I'm fine with that also.
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| 53 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 16:02
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40 sounds good.
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| 54 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 17103822
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 16:45
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I have to agree with Toral on this one. 40 sounds good purely because if it's only 25 you can have one stud pitcher getting you 16 IP a week, and another quasi stud to round it out to 25.
With 40 it forces you to decide are you going to risk only 25 IP with your more studly pitchers and go after ERA and WHIP, or use some #4-#5 starters to try and win Wins and K's.
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| 55 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 3515208
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 17:00
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Actually, 40 was the number of moves I was proposing. 40 IP sounds like quite a lot to me. Say you have 2 SP's who each have 2 "quality" starts of 6 IP and you have 2 other pitchers who each have a "quality" start of 6 IP (only had 1 game that week). Add in 2 RP's who each showed up in 3 games for an inning each, and 2 middle relievers who each showed up in 4 games for a total of 2 IP each. Sounds like a pretty busy week for your pitchers, right? Actually, it's just 46 IP. You've just barely made the minimum IP. A missed quality start here, and some missed relief appearances and suddenly, through no fault of the manager, you get zero pitching stats. Maybe something like 30 or 35 is better?
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| 56 | Rogue Nine
ID: 461562813
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 17:05
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I'd say 30 max. KKB's description of what could happen happens alot with pitchers, and with a roster moves limit that would be a double-blow.
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| 57 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 17103822
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 18:07
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Wow I stand corrected, I was assuming that 40 IP was the max for the week, if its a minimum I agree that 30 is much better.
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| 58 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 266182910
Mon, Mar 03, 2003, 19:02
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Twarpy, it's a minimum number of innings like in hockey where you have to have 3 goalie starts to get your goalie stats. There is no setting on max, so you can try to cram as many IP in as you can for W, Sv, and K at the obvious risk to your ERA and WHIP.
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| 59 | izbiztuh
ID: 3810172818
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 06:19
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I have a friend who ''wants in''
let me know , as he would be a committed gm
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| 60 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 3521369
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 10:13
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izbiztuh: We should have an even number of managers already (12, with Puckprophet and philflyboy not participating). If there are no strong objections from the group, I'd have no problem with going to the maximum of 14. I can deliver another person as well to keep the league size even ... someone who was in my Sandbox AL/NL group the past two years and wants very much to participate in another split league. He's been on my heels all season in a Yahoo! rotisserie hockey league (surprise, surprise ... I really do have a first-place team) and would fit in well with this group.
Last call for comments about settings. I'll check in tonight but will be away from a computer most of Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
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| 61 | izbiztuh
ID: 3810172818
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 12:51
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okay , so I can tell him ''he's in'' ??
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| 62 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 49211613
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 14:11
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Not yet, izbiztuh. Let's give everyone at least 24 hours to read and respond.
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| 63 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 4431816
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 18:33
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I have no problem with 14. No preference as to settings, I'll go with the flow.
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| 64 | Dr. Doom
ID: 610048
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 18:35
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I'm good however you decide to go.
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| 65 | CH
ID: 5023618
Thu, Mar 06, 2003, 19:14
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I am the friend izbiztuh says he can deliver.
I'd be willing to play. I've done some sandlot leagues with him in the past. My main interest is hockey but baseball looks intestesting when its poor skating weather outside. I'd definitely be a committed GM, but I think some really good gurupies could take me to school. Last year we (Izbiztah, myself and others) played a slow live draft league in sandbox. Kinda didnt work because we had enough GMs who didnt bother to draft that it didnt get done on time. We even had one guy clueless enough to claim Darryl Kile on waivers after he died and keep him as a starter the rest of the season.
I know its not fair for the new guy to come and change things, but I'd most like a live draft. Autopick sucks because you invitably wind up with depth guys that you really never wanted in the first place. But I guess beggers can't be choosers. I'd take whatever you guys propose, if you would take me.
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| 66 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 324670
Fri, Mar 07, 2003, 01:46
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Tentative League Settings
Maximum Number of Teams: 14 (default is 12)
Maximum Players on a Team: 23 (default is 21)
Player Universe: All baseball (again, we'll be split half all-AL and half all-NL)
Maximum Moves: 35 (compromise here; the regular season lasts approximately 27 weeks)
Maximum Trades: No maximum (same as default)
Scoring Type: Head-to-Head League
Waiver Time: 2 days (same as default)
Last Trade Date: Sunday, August 24 (default is August 10)
Trade Reject Time: 2 days (same as default)
Minimum Innings: 15 (default is 7; 20 might be difficult, given the size of the league and limit on player acquisitions)
Roster Changes: Daily
Starting Positions: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, OF, OF, OF, Util, Util, SP, SP, RP, RP, P, P, P, DL, DL
(Util batters can be any non-pitcher, including "designated hitters"; P can be any pitcher)
Statistical Categories—Batters (the first five are default settings):
Runs
Home Runs
Runs Batted In
Stolen Bases
Batting Average
On-base + Slugging Percentage
Statistical Categories—Pitchers (the first five are default settings):
Wins
Saves
Strikeouts
Earned Run Average
(Walks + Hits)/ Innings Pitched
Shutouts
Does a projected autopick draft date of March 21 seem reasonable?
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| 67 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 1021873
Fri, Mar 07, 2003, 04:23
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Sounds good M².
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| 68 | KrazyKoalaBears
Donor
ID: 266182910
Fri, Mar 07, 2003, 07:24
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All sounds good to me also.
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| 69 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Mar 07, 2003, 08:20
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All looks good.
My one doubt: shutouts have been added as we go to 6 x 6. That's fine except they're kind of a fluke/rarity category; they just don't happen that often. That category'll be a 0-0 tie most weeks, which may be fine. The only category I see that might be better is Strikeout-to-Walk ratio. Problems with it: we double count strikeouts if that's a problem; that would be 3 ratios out of 6 for pitchers. Hmm. Raw walks as a category (lower being better)? Hmm. I'm not sure but would invite ideas on a better category; or maybe shutouts is fine for other people.
Toral
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| 70 | Rick007
Sustainer
ID: 4710722
Fri, Mar 07, 2003, 10:31
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March 21 sounds good to me. I agree with Toral about shutouts. They really don't happen at all. I don't see what you could replace it with, though.
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| 71 | Curby
ID: 43251714
Fri, Mar 07, 2003, 15:51
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Moosey....This sounds real interesting, and a lot more challenging than sandbox was. If there is no objection from anyone else, count me in.
offline draft is better for me---work nights with sketchy access from work.
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| 72 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 41246821
Sat, Mar 08, 2003, 22:46
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Point well taken about shutouts. I checked a few "6x6" setups, and these two alternate categories came to the forefront:
Innings Pitched
Holds
Pick one by Sunday at 11:59 p.m. Eastern. In case of a tie, I'll cast the deciding vote. ;-)
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| 73 | izbiztuh
ID: 3810172818
Sun, Mar 09, 2003, 11:02
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lets set it up so we can begin ranking our picks
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| 74 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sun, Mar 09, 2003, 23:16
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IP -- well, maybe as Woody Allen said, 90% of life is just showing up, but awarding pitchers for IP seems taking this a little too far.
Holds -- interesting, alters strategy. Effect is to downplay worth of real pitchers by diluting their categories.
I guess Moose will decide!
Toral
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| 75 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 18214100
Mon, Mar 10, 2003, 01:14
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League ID# and password have been posted on the ATHS II message board. Due to the light voter turnout here, I let a Susan B. Anthony dollar flip decide which category would replace shutouts. Tails (holds) won.
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| 76 | CH
ID: 5023618
Mon, Mar 10, 2003, 21:02
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I'm a bit unclear on the concept.
Why are some teams AL only and other NL only? Why not let teams pick players from both leagues?
Near as I can tell AL teams can play NL teams. That should give NL teams and advantage right? They have pitchers who in general have lower ERA's WHIP's etc. From what I can tell the league is likely not deep enough that the extra batters who are DHs matter much.
Wont deleting all the players in the wrong league on your pick preferences take almost as long as a live draft would have taken (if all GMs were available at the same time)?
I dont wanna seem like a clueless newcomer, but please explain it to me.
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| 77 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 342491020
Mon, Mar 10, 2003, 21:49
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Baseball draft league assignments as of March 10 at 9:30 p.m. EST:
01 Toral: ToraNL Wheatfarmers ... NL
02 Twarpy: ... (TBD; manager's choice)
03 izbiztuh: Long Island Blugrass ... NL
04 StL Cards: StL Cardinals ... NL
05 quik_ag: NL chocolatey quick ... NL
06 KrazyKoalaBears: 0-1 1-2 1-2 ... NL
07 Dr. Doom: Dr. Doom ... (TBD; manager's choice)
===========================================
08 taxman: ... (TBD)
09 Roguish Snipers: ... (TBD)
10 Thinkbig: ... AL, by default
11 Dan: ... AL, by default
12 ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤: save the whALers ... AL, by default
13 CH: Ball Five ... AL, by default
14 Curby: Curby's Club ... AL, by default
Dr. Doom and Twarpy, please let us know (on the baseball league message board) which way you want to go with your team.
(These are league assignments only and not the draft order, which will be randomized.)
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| 78 | Dr. Doom
ID: 16142182
Mon, Mar 10, 2003, 21:52
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Done.
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| 79 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 502551020
Mon, Mar 10, 2003, 21:55
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CH, your questions are nearly identical to the ones on the league message board; please check there for the answers.
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| 80 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 41243116
Tue, Mar 11, 2003, 07:43
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Baseball draft league assignments (updated March 11, 7:30 a.m. EST), with four teams still to join:
01 Toral: ToraNL Wheatfarmers ... NL
02 Twarpy: Northern Touch ... NL
03 izbiztuh: Long Island Blugrass ... NL
04 StL Cards: StL Cardinals ... NL
05 quik_ag: NL chocolatey quick ... NL
06 KrazyKoalaBears: 0-1 0-2 1-2 ... NL
07 Dr. Doom: Dr. Doom ... NL
===========================================
08 taxman: (awaiting sign-up)... AL, by default
09 Roguish Snipers: (awaiting sign-up) ... AL, by default
10 Thinkbig: (awaiting sign-up) ... AL, by default
11 Dan: (awaiting sign-up) ... AL, by default
12 ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤: save the whALers ... AL, by default
13 CH: Ball Five ... AL, by default
14 Curby: Curby's Club ... AL, by default
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| 81 | Rogue Nine
ID: 58251015
Tue, Mar 11, 2003, 13:40
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Wow, they all took NL? You chumps... ;)
I'll be signing up in a minute.
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| 82 | Dr. Doom
ID: 610048
Tue, Mar 11, 2003, 15:19
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I actually started thinking AL. Even went as far as moving all the NL players to my excluded list. Couldn't do it.
Anyone want to deal future considerations for an NL squad. ;~)
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| 83 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Thu, Mar 13, 2003, 22:01
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OK, who's missing? The guys who didn't read the thread, even the opening post, before joining are gone, but we're one real player short. Let's get that guy in and we're ready to go!
Toral
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| 84 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 45281321
Thu, Mar 13, 2003, 22:08
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Toral, only Taxman is missing and I've already e-mailed him (it appears that he set his hockey line-up a week in advance). When he joins that'll bring us to 12 teams ... which is nice, because then everyone qualifies for the playoffs.
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| 85 | izbiztuh
ID: 3810172818
Fri, Mar 14, 2003, 06:32
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I read the thread all along .
so dont accuse me of something without checking in with me first , much appreicated .
I'm not going to sit at my computer for 3 hours putting AL players in one column and then go back and prerank all the NL players .
We may as well of had a live draft as it would take as much time to do that as it would to shift all these players around .
I'm far from a dead beat gm , surely my daily participation in the yahoo league proves this .
I gave you ample notice that CH and I were leaving + that left you with 12 teams which is what you wanted in the first place .
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| 86 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 11257146
Fri, Mar 14, 2003, 07:57
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izbiztuh: For what it's worth—and I realize you're responding to Toral's post—I'm not at all offended that you and CH decided to "bail" (your term). The format and draft style didn't measure up to what you wanted, and that's fine ... actually, your departure now is better than our having a league stuck with a couple of dormant teams. Even with a pokey dial-up connection, however, it took me less than an hour (in reality, just a bit over 45 minutes) to exclude all the National League players in the pool.
And just a word of warning to all of our NL managers: Curby and I participated in a Sandbox league that followed this same split format last season. The rules were similar yet different; for example, line-ups were frozen twice weekly and there were limits on player appearances. We finished with a three-way tie (identical W/L records) for first place ... and two of those teams were all-American League.
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| 87 | Taxman
Leader
ID: 271025153
Fri, Mar 14, 2003, 09:02
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Wow...the week from hell. Please e-mail me the info so I can get caught up. Sorry that bidniss requirements displaced hockey boards for the past few days. thanx
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| 88 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 43243148
Fri, Mar 14, 2003, 09:43
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Taxman: E-mail was sent to you Thursday; the league ID# and password also can be found in message 54 on the ATSH II board.
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Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
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