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Subject: Bertuzzi Suspension Looming...
Posted by: I_AM_CANADIAN
- [481212021] Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 00:30
This guys had more visit's to Colin Cambell's office than most in the League.
His closeline from behind on Steve Moore was just vicious. I understand his frustration, but go face to face with guy. Shesh.
I say there'll be very little leaniance this time from the NHL. I predict a 10 Game Suspention. |
| 1 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 481212021
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 00:46
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Yup, he get's a Match penalty, w/intent to injure. This one's getting a review for sure now.
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| 2 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 481212021
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 00:51
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On the 9th Goal of the Night for the AVS, Hejduk picks up his hatrick.
Also, Naslund is a -3 on the ice.
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| 3 | simbot
ID: 541152140
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 02:41
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Rob Blake out as well... sprained hand... was loading up to throw a haymaker on Ruutu and missed and hit the glass instead!!
Looks like i'll be trading him for another stud dman, prolly Gonchar. Thanks for nothing, Blake!
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| 4 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 481212021
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 09:35
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From NHL.com
"7:07 AM EST, 03/09/2004
Canucks' Bertuzzi suspended indefinitely
NEW YORK - Vancouver Canucks forward Todd Bertuzzi has been suspended indefinitely, without pay, after being assessed a Match penalty for deliberate injury of Colorado Avalanche forward Steve Moore during NHL Game #1028 Monday night.
The penalty was assessed at 8:41 of the third period.
A hearing will be conducted Wednesday at 9 a.m., ET, at the League's Toronto office."
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| 5 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:14
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Anyone else think there might be criminal chrages brought up on that one?
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| 6 | Altrain
ID: 37240913
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 14:42
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I heard he might get the rest of the season, hopefully not playoff games. Look back to the Matt Johnson/Beukaboom incident. Same type of thing almost, and he got 12 games I believe?
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| 7 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:02
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Moore got a fractured vertabrae from this, I think the suspension will be closer to 20 if not more.
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| 8 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:29
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For those of you who have known me for a while, you'll know that the following are two of the things I hate: Political correctness and the reporters (or the media as a whole). So here comes the rant.
I saw it. Steve Moore deserved it and he should have seen it coming. He's such a chicken.
He took Naslund's head out last month. Now he's avoiding Bertuzzi by turning his back to him when the game was out of reach. Well, the saying was an eye for an eye, and this time it's a head for a head. Too bad Bertuzzi didn't do it in a politically correct way.
Now don't give me that "How can you say something like that?" questions. You know that's how hockey works. You know this wouldn't have been a big problem 20 years ago. You know Bertuzzi has to be suspended only because it's the politically correct thing to do. And you know what you're going to say is the politically correct thing to say.
Being injured is a job hazard that those players willingly and knowingly took on. Let them sort it out themselves, not the league, not the media, not the public.
On a related front, Brian Burke continues to be my hero against the stupid/useless/brainless reporters. In his media conference, he specifically said that he wouldn't comment on Bertuzzi's actions/remnifications but yet some deaf guy had to ask him for his comments. Burke, in his calm and as politically-correct way possible, told him that he's stupid in a sarcastic way.
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| 9 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:40
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Yes, Moore deserved it...you can't hit the guy from the front if hes running away, Bertuzzi was trying to get him to fight that whole shift. However, if Bertuzzi had a brain in his head he would have just waited and pummeled him later or else leveled him open ice. Total bad luck escalated this incident, if it wasnt for the landing Moore probably wouldnt have been hurt and probably only a game or two suspension. But now they have to give a long suspension just to make guys think before doing such stupid things in the future.
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| 10 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:41
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TLW, I guess you don't play hockey. Yes, Mr. Moore had a hit on Naslund that he had to answer for. He'd already fought some guy in the 1st period. Thats not enough? Ok, fine, fight him again. And if he refuses to drop the gloves, throw a few punches. But sucker-punching someone from behind is just low. Lower then low. Its like beaning a 5-year old kid in a father-son baseball game for being too close to the plate. Or biting someone's ear off in a boxing match. Just dumb. Dumb dumb dumb.
As for political correctness, what on earth are you talking about? You consider it politically correct not to mug someone? I consider it common sense.
Mith, last I heard the Vancouver police had acknowledged (and allowed I guess) Bertuzzi to leave the city to attend his hearing in Toronto. So it seems likely they will at least investigate possible charges.
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| 11 | kev
ID: 3155515
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:53
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First off, how is this incident any different than the McSorley incident, except McSorley used a stick?
TLW- this has nothing to do with what Moore deserved. It has to do with Bertuzzi being- well- words that I can't use here.
Who is the chicken? Moore layed out Naslund because Naslund was stupid enough to be reaching for a puck with his head down in the trolley tracks. Sure- go after him- that makes sense, but you do not sucker punch a guy, especially from behind.
The suspension he will get has nothing to do with political correctness. Incidents like this have always been punishable, as they should be.
Did McCarty get a suspension for going after Claude Lemiux after he nailed Draper? No? Why? Because McCarty didnt hit the guy from behind. Claude turtled, and McCarty kept pummeling him. That is different than hitting a guy from behind. Moore didn't turn away...he was skating away, Bertuzzi grabbed his jersey, and sucker punched him, then pushed his head into the ground.
Bertuzzi hopefully also just cost himself a spot on any Team Canada event in the future. I think the guy is disgusting.
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| 12 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 15:54
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It's not low. It's what should be done for someone who chickened away. Moore knew he'd be confronted with what he did for the all game, or perhaps as long as any Cancuks remember it. Turning his back to Bertuzzi is like turning his back to a truck that's going to run over him. It doesn't matter if the truck driver is drunk or not, he'll still get hit. That's stupid. Stupid stupid stupid.
Its like beaning a 5-year old kid in a father-son baseball game for being too close to the plate.
I can certainly understand if this really happened. It's better to get beaned gently by his dad so that he'd learn about it when he's small than getting beaned viciously and breaks a wrist when the kid gets to play in a league game later in his life.
You consider it politically correct not to mug someone? I consider it common sense.
That's for our ordinary lives, not in the NHL rink. A different set of laws take place there. If you want to apply the laws that apply outside the rink, then I suppose you'll agree that each player who got a fighting major and each player who drew blood with a highstick should be charged with assault.
See, this is exactly the problem these days. People keep mixing up how things work inside and outside the NHL rinks.
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| 13 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 16:55
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Yes, there are different laws inside the NHL rink. One such law is that fighting is allowed. Another such law is that striking a player from behind isn't allowed, and carries a stiff penalty. All 'justifications' aside, thats what Bertuzzi did. And so he'll get punished. Its not politically correct, or the 'media', its just the NHL applying its rules.
Oh, and remind me to never let my kids play in a baseball game with you. lol
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| 14 | kev
ID: 3155515
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 17:06
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You are right TLW, a different set of rules are inside the NHL rink, and that's why I hope it doesnt turn into a criminal thing.
In an NHL rink, what he did was cowardly, and disgusting, and that is why he is being suspended. I do believe sucker punching a guy and driving his head into the ice is not allowed in the NHL- hence his suspension.
Bertuzzi easily could have gotten in front of him. He took the easy way out, because, as he has proven his whole career, Todd Bertuzzi is a baby. He could learn something from Iginla. How to fight, and how to be a man. Todd Bertuzzi is nothing but a little boy.
Moore should have gotten his, face to face, like a man, just like he gave to Naslund.
Moore wasn't taught a lesson. He was taught, when I hit a guy cleanly, because he is stupid enough to reach for a puck with his head down, I get hit in the back of my head, by a wimp.
You can try and turn it anyway you like. Todd Bertuzzi is going to be suspended not because of the politics, or because of the way the game has turned, but because he did something illegal in the NHL- same as it was 20 years ago.
Hell, 11 years ago, Dale Hunter was given a 21 game suspension for hitting Pierre Turgeon after he scored a goal in the 1993 playoffs. Should Turgeon have been expecting it since he just scored on Hunter's team?
You can always try and say, well, this guy should have been expecting it....
It should be expected, but do it the manly way. If the guy wont fight you, you don't hit him in the back of the head. It's stupid. Bertuzzi has proven himself to be a baby and a punk. Here is hoping a quick exit for the Canucks in the playoffs, just so I don't have to see him again this year.
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| 15 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 17:39
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what he did was cowardly
I've noticed that Americans have gotten used to calling anybody who's doing bold things that they didn't want done to them "cowards". How was Bertuzzi a coward for sucker-punching a person who deserved to be the target? If anybody's a coward here, Moore is the coward for turning his back and avoiding Bertuzzi.
He could learn something from Iginla. How to fight, and how to be a man.
Bertuzzi wants to fight alright. It's just that other people are scared of fighting a giant like he is. I've seen my share of people who shied away from Bertuzzi. People are afraid to fight Bertuzzi. This is one of the major misconceptions that Bertuzzi doesn't fight and just instigates. Bertuzzi can't find someone to fight against.
Moore should have gotten his, face to face, like a man
Yes, he should have. But whenever "his" came, he turned his back towards it so that when "his" came, it looked like he's the victim of an assault. Are you saying that Moore should turtle for the rest of his life and he'll never get "his"?
I get hit in the back of my head, by a wimp.
You are wrong as I stated above. He basically asked for being hit from behind by turning his back to Bertuzzi. How was Bertuzzi a wimp when he was asking for a fight? Moore is the wimp here for shying away from a fight that would have settled the score.
Todd Bertuzzi is going to be suspended not because of the politics
I'm still maintaining that the NHL must suspend Bertuzzi because the media (and also the public) is asking for it. If the don't suspend him, the media will try in every way to make the NHL look bad. The bottom line is, the NHL loses one of the stars for the rest of the season not to injury. We Canucks fans lose the second best player on the team and our fans who bought tickets in the last 13 games were robbed. Then again, I can live with it because I understand why this has to happen. That's life.
Should Turgeon have been expecting it since he just scored on Hunter's team?
Scoring on Hunter's team is Turgeon's job. Hitting Naslund's head and giving him a concussion isn't part of Moore's job discription. There's a big difference here.
this guy should have been expecting it
You're damn right here. Heck, Brad May had already warned him a month ago.
do it the manly way
Moore's the one who's not doing it in a manly way. If he hit Naslund in the head, he should be facing the Canucks enforcers/power forwards like a man and fight them one-by-one. But NO, he had to turn around every time he was confronted.
Here is hoping a quick exit for the Canucks in the playoffs
Boo to you, Kev. I don't like you for saying that.
Go Canucks Go. We've been suppressed long enough. I know it'll be tough to fight against a team that boast all-star powerplay lines that just added half a dozen goons in the past two weeks, but this will only make the season so much better.
Todd Bertuzzi: You did what you have to do, but you just lost control to gravity. I'm sure a lot of other players would have done what you did to that disrespectful coward. Who does he think he is to hit Naslund on the head? He can't avoid the issue for the rest of his life. But because of that, you'll have to face some tough times ahead. Just like you are going to get punished, Moore will also get punished for causing bodily harm on Naslund. At least you aren't injured. If you have to say things that are politically correct on the TV, I'll certainly understand why you have to say things like that. It's a pity we can't just get rid of all the reporters. I mean, we aren't really getting to know what you guys really think when you are confronted by a reporter anyways, so I think we spectators should just leave you guys alone in the locker rooms.
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| 16 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 18:13
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I really hate how all the sports channels are spreading propaganda about Bertuzzi's hit by not showing the 5 seconds before the hit. Bertuzzi's sucker punch was not out of nowhere. Moore knew that Bertuzzi was behind him. He talked with him about fighting, but he decided to turn away. He knew that somebody who wanted to fight him was at his back chasing him. He thought that by turning his back, he wouldn't get hit. Well, he was wrong. That's not how a man's game works. Even though I do think that he's not supposed to be hurt as badly as he was, it is Moore's own responsibility for what happened.
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| 17 | kev
ID: 3155515
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 18:26
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TLW, first off, I'm Canadian. An Oiler fan, living in Calgary. To assume I'm American because I think Bertuzzi is a coward is stupid. I did assume you were a Canuck fan, just because of your backing of the baby (Bertuzzi)
I do believe Moore's hit was clean. As a Canuck fan, you believe he intended to injure Naslund. Naslund was stupid for going for a puck, with his head down.
And by the way, did you watch the game? I do believe Matt Cook and Moore fought in the first period. Or does Moore have to expect to be hit in the back of the head everytime he now goes on the ice. He took out a superstar- with a clean hit. Nonetheless, he should have expected a fight, and he got it.
Bertuzzi was being a baby. His team was down huge. He wanted a fight, and Moore wasn't having it. You are totally twisting the events. It's not like Moore turned around when Bertuzzi was hitting him. Bertuzzi skated behind him, grabbed his jersey, punched the guy in the back of the head, and then threw him into the ice.
Cracked vertebrate. Out for the season. Bertuzzi should get the same. As mentioned above, the main difference is, Moore hit a guy doing something stupid- baby Bertuzzi sucker punched a guy because he is a chicken.
I know a lot of players whom would fight Bertuzzi. He isn't a giant of a man. He is a giant of a baby. He proved himself to be scum. If Bertuzzi does play in the playoffs, and they do match up with Colorado, lets see what a "man" Bertuzzi is. Match him up with Worrell.
What he did, was wrong, and the media isn't dictating the punishment. McSorely got 23 games for his actions against Brasheer, because Brasheer wouldn't fight him. But as a Canuck fan, that punishment must have been fine and dandy for you.
At some points, the team you cheer for should become overshadowed by common sense. Common sense should tell you, Bertuzzi needs to be suspended. Not because of the media, because what he did was wrong.
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| 18 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 18:58
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did you watch the game?
Of course I did. It was the best game I've ever seen even though my Canucks lost huge. You obviously didn't, and was infleuenced by the media's propaganda who didn't show the previous 5 seconds before Bertuzzi grabbed his jersey from behind. Moore turtled away from Bertuzzi like he's as fragile as Paul Kariya (well, turned out he is) because he's too much of a coward to fight the Big Bert.
Cracked vertebrate. Out for the season.
He wouldn't have gotten that if he had the guts to face Bertuzzi like a man would.
baby Bertuzzi sucker punched a guy because he is a chicken.
Let me say one more time: Other people FEAR Bertuzzi! Bertuzzi wants to fight often, but people are too scared to fight him. Bertuzzi is NOT a chicken. Moore is the chicken and he got slaughtered like a chicken would.
Match him up with Worrell.
Yeah, match him up with Worrell. Funny thing was that even Worrell wouldn't fight Bertuzzi. Your argument is fallcious because even Worrell is scared of Bertuzzi.
I do believe Matt Cook and Moore fought in the first period. Or does Moore have to expect to be hit in the back of the head everytime he now goes on the ice.
You think something like a concussion to our captain can be resolved by one simple fight? You can't possibly be so naive. Moore should expect revenge every time he steps on the ice. If he turns his back to the enemies, of course he had to expect hits from behind. Only stupid people let their enemies move around behind them without being alert. What he should have done was to face it like a man. If he faced Bertuzzi like a man, he wouldn't have hurt his neck. Avoiding the consequences is not an alternative.
because Brasheer wouldn't fight him. But as a Canuck fan, that punishment must have been fine and dandy for you.
On the contrary, I thought that Brasheer got what he deserved. I'm not as biased as you think I am. The incident just happened to happen to my home team. I say things as they are like Brian Burke does, unlike a lot of other people who are overrun by emotions and lack the objectivity.
Common sense should tell you, Bertuzzi needs to be suspended.
That's correct. Common sense did tell me that he'll be suspended. And it'll last at least for the remainder of the season. However, a lot of people, including you, stops your line of thinking right there. I bet you have never thought about the origins of such common sense.
The bottom line is that people can still be punished for doing the right thing. This usually happens to the world of political correctness, but this also happens in the NHL rinks. Bertuzzi's gonna be suspended, and I can live with it.
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| 19 | kev
ID: 3155515
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 19:11
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The guy who did the right thing here was Moore. He hit Naslund, and now, Naslund wont be so stupid to reach for a puck like he did. He might have saved Naslund's career, unless he pulls a Lindros and continues to play stupid.
Moore took his fight. Let your opponents get behind you? What is he supposed to do, stay behind his net the whole game, so he can see cheap shot artists coming from all angles.
He took his fight. Period. He shouldn't have to watch out the rest of his career because he knocked out someone cleanly.
You are biased actually, because a lot of people aren't scared of "Big Bert". Everytime Bertuzzi gets hit, he whines. Trust me, I saw the game in Calgary, where everytime he got touched, he went to the ref to complain. The dude has always been a baby. Now he is not just a baby, he is a punk.
Avoiding the consequences? Bertuzzi is getting what he deserved. Actually, he is getting off easy. Someone should break his neck.
An eye for an eye, right TLW?
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| 20 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 481212021
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 20:01
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1st of all I don't think I have to mention where I'm from. (Name speaks for itself)
But I would like to say that I find Bertuzzi made a major "brain fart". He is a repeat offender and should be a little more concience of his decisions.
It's bound to happen too to a guy that big, that plays at such an intense level. What he did was just wrong though. I play hockey. I'm pretty big. 6'3" 220lbs actually. When I play, I play hard, and that's ok, because people expect it. What's wrong is that Moore chose not to fight with Bertuzzi, and he has that right, but Bertuzzi didn't respect the clear boundaries of the game. He deserves a heavy suspension.
The fact that Moore hit Naslund is such a bad excuse too. If you wanna talk about someone beeing influenced by the media, it's you The Left Wings. Crawford freeking cried like a baby that someone would dare touch his prized captain, as he was rashly skatted through the neutral zone with his head down. That's a no no. Even Lindros, as well as countless other players in the league, don't complain when they received concussions from "clean" hits.
I think, someone setting a contract on Bertuzzi's neck is more than a little idiotic too. It's game people. Play it like one.
I hope Vancouver does well in the Playoffs. As I do for all the Canadian teams. But, in my heart, I hope they do it without the services of Bertuzzi. He should take the time to think about his actions. After all, he has messed with Moore's life more than just on the ice, but off it too.
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| 21 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 20:48
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Even though Moore fought Cooke earlier in the game, he still had something coming to him, but not a sucker punch like that. I still can't see how anyone can justify what Bertuzzi did. Even if Moore knew Bertuzzi was behind him, and no matter how frustrating the score and the officiating were, and even if Moore had said something to Bert as he skated away, there is no possible way to justify clocking a guy from behind. There was still 10 minutes left in the game, he still had plenty of time to get 'retribution'.
Anyone who says Bertuzzi has it coming to him next time they play needs to think twice. The only tougher Canuck is Brookbank, Bert can more than handle his own against anyone. Worrell wouldnt even fight Brookbank on 3 separate occasions, and pretty much had a draw against May, Bert would not get creamed by anyone on the Avs. The only way the Avs get payback is if they do something as stupid as Bert did, which would warrant an even longer suspension than Bertuzzi will get.
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| 22 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 21:16
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What is he supposed to do, stay behind his net the whole game,
Yeah, that's right. Perhaps he'll think twice next time before hunting the heads of the opposing team's leading scorer's head.
he can see cheap shot artists coming from all angles.
Well, seeing that he's a cheap shot artist himself, it's only fair.
He shouldn't have to watch out the rest of his career because he knocked out someone cleanly.
Yeah, he should. It's not a clean hit at all.
he went to the ref to complain.
What's wrong with complaining? If he can get a penalty next time, it'd be good for the team. I don't mind you calling him a baby cuz that's your misinformed opinion, I think you're plain wrong calling him a coward.
Bertuzzi is getting what he deserved.
Perhaps. But he's not avoiding the consequences here.
An eye for an eye, right TLW?
Nope. The first "eye" was Moore hitting Naslund. The second "eye" was Bertuzzi hitting Moore. The score should be settled now. Any further attacks from the Avs will start a new "eye for an eye".
Crawford freeking cried like a baby that someone would dare touch his prized captain,
I applaud him for saying things the way they really were instead of saying it in a politically correct way or even not mention it at all. It might resemble crying, but that's just passion for the game. It takes a man to have the bravery to do what Crawford did. Other GMs/coaches/players/people in general would just say things the majority of the people would like to hear, or they would shut up. It takes guts to say things the way it really is and let people know where they were wrong and exactly what the real problem is.
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| 23 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 481212021
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 21:56
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Get your facts straight TLW!
Moore isn't a cheap shot artist. Where the hell are you pulling this crap from?! How many penalty minutes did Moore have this season? Previous to last nights game he had 32 Min over 56 Games. Doesn't sound like someone who's out to play dirty now does it.
Dispute it all you want, but their was no penalty called, on his hit on Naslund and their shouldn't be either. It was clean. The league had plenty of time to review it as did the rest of the world. You skate with or at the puck in neutral zone and you are fair game for someone finnishing his check. Period.
Why does someone like Stevens get heralded as one of the best open ice hitters, and Moore get a bad rap?
I'll tell you why. Because there are a lot of loosers out there who claim to be hockey fans. Vancouver fans certainly don't set a good example. In 1994 when a real team (Let's go Rangers!) beat them in the Stanley Cup Finals, they looted and rioted their own city! Poor Loosers!!!
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| 24 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 481212021
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 23:10
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TLW... I have a question for you... Why even bother following hockey? Why don't just you just start up your own personal battle again the media? I took a couple minutes to look into the stuff that you've posted on Rotoguru hockey recently. Let's take a look:
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/mb/hock/5519.shtml?1076465067
"Gosh, I hate the media when they step out of the boundaries of objective reporting and start spreading propaganda."
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/mb/hock/5560.shtml?1078890969
"For those of you who have known me for a while, you'll know that the following are two of the things I hate: Political correctness and the reporters (or the media as a whole)."
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/mb/hock/5528.shtml?1076871032
"One shattered jaw will start a media uproar for mendating NHL players to wear full face shields. I can just see it."
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/mb/hock/5472.shtml?1072579578
"Although I agree completely with the moral behind all this, I just have this one thing to say after 3 months of constant media coverage:
Get over it already."
Most interesting of all I find is this one:
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/mb/hock/4427.shtml?1021266385
"Guys, that's what I said it was a convention. Conventions are never in the rulebook. If it's in the rulebook, it's called a rule, not a convention. I think the convention I talked about is a good one in the sense that it can make calls consistent among all the refs.
And to your example, Cuz, remember that if Reed Low takes out Shanny, then Tkachuk, Weight, Pronger, MacInnis (and insert your favourite Blue here) will be in danger too. That's why each team has several goons on it. They've been doing exactly what you said (goons going after star players) for several decades already. Remember why Semenko plays with Gretzky?
Moreover, attempt to injure warrants a league review and most likely a lengthy suspension."
Let's here that again: "attempt to injure warrants a league review and most likely a lengthy suspension"
Can't wait to see tomorrow, how much your Mr. Bertuzzi warrants.
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| 25 | Silentz
ID: 411101319
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 23:32
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Wait a second I_AM_CANADIAN.... the suspension would only apply if the guy didn't "have it coming".... that's what TLW means, I'm sure of it. Or if the suspension was happening to anyone but the paragon of virtue, Bertuzzi....
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| 26 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Tue, Mar 09, 2004, 23:43
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I can honestly say that outside of death penatly by hanging this is the first time I've ever heard of a guy deserving a broken neck. Maybe Moore deserved a fight. Maybe Moore deserved a pummeling. Maybe Moore deserved to be chased down (note: not hit) from behind. But a broken neck? I think anyone saying he deserved a broken neck, or even insinuating it by saying he deserved the blindsided hit and that the result was just part of the job, needs to have their humanity rechecked.
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| 27 | kev
ID: 3155515
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 00:26
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I think TLW proves he needs that. He is just a blind Canuck fan, supporting there most treasured asset.
The thing is, if there is a cheap shot artist involved, lets not just look at PIM, lets look at suspensions. It's not like Bertuzzi was Mr Perfect before this incident.
Moore got his neck broken because Naslund had his head down, and paid for it. How is that an eye for an eye? That's a career for a stupid play...captian, leading scorer or not, you get run over when you do that in the neutral zone. Let the retribution come face to face. How anyone can say that Bertuzzi's act was not cowardly, does not know anything about a real fight.
Like I said before, I hope this keeps Bertuzzi off any Olympic/World Cup team, as it would sicken me to have to cheer for a team with a player like him on it.
He is a disgrace. Only a fool Canuck fan would say Moore deserved a broken neck for doing his job, hitting a stupid Canuck with his head down.
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| 28 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 00:38
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I think Bertuzzi was just a blind Canuck, hoping to get payback on someone who concussed their most treasured asset. Naslund is by far the Canucks most treasured asset, anyone who watches them would know that. Bertuzzi has floated around almost all season and fed Naslund passes, any one could do that. He used to be a treasured asset when he would drive to the net. Hopefully when he comes back he will have regained some of his passion. From all interviews, he seems in bad shape over this as well, really apolegetic and sincere. It is at least good to hear that Bertuzzi himself knows that it was a boneheaded play and would probably give anything to have a redo. I know from playing sports that sometimes when things are going really bad, it reaches points when you would like to snap and do something foolish but for Bert it seems that common sense didn't prevail to prevent it.
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| 29 | London Strikes
ID: 148253022
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 10:45
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Back to the fantasy side of this story, who is going to replace Bertuzzi on the top line with Naslund ?!? I need my sleeper pick to replace Bertuzzi with
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| 30 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 14:03
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They just picked up Rucinsky and Sanderson. One will play with Naz and Morrison and the other will play with Sedins. Cant say for sure till game time tonight, but rumors have Rucinsky with the twins and Sanderson top line.
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| 31 | smallwhirled
ID: 26229421
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 17:35
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Hey, who's tired of ESPN and all this other media crap. Bertuzzi is on top of PTI every damn day now, and is the big story everywhere....where is this coverage these other days.
I'm sick of it, he did what he did, suspend the guy, let Rucinsky or Sanderson take his place. The media has this overblown, like they do everything, I'm just tired of it.
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| 32 | Ira
ID: 1128615
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 18:07
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I think as punishment, they should make Colorado play Vancouver in the playoffs first round, and have Bertuzzi play in just those games.
No games before the playoffs, no games after the first round.
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| 33 | Silentz
ID: 411101319
Wed, Mar 10, 2004, 19:31
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Hey Ira, how 'bout adding the stipulation that Bertuzzi has to play FOR Colorado in that series?
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| 34 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:09
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I saw on CNN Headline News just now that Bertuzzi has been suspended for the duration of the season and all of the playoffs. I also heard that they are are sending him to Iraq to direct road side traffic in the ominous "triangle." aaar.
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| 35 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:21
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Bertuzzi suspended for season & playoffs & maybe more
The story from CBS sportsline
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| 36 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:33
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hockey above the law?
Thought provoking article by a wise man, George Vescey of the NY Times. Clearly at odds with the thinking of the likes of TLW, but I tend to agree with George (here, there, and everywhere). It's a lot of common sense to me.
Another interesting article from the Toronto Sun. Similar conclusions.
Toronto Sun view on Bert
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| 37 | wolfer
ID: 58546215
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 09:44
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What would she say if this happened in the NFL?
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| 38 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:06
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Just a question. Considering Bertuzzi struck Moore from behind, then basically tackled him and drove him to the ice with his forearm behind Moore's head, is this incident really any different than the McSorley/Brashear incident? And, given that both attacks came from behind and both caused significant injury to the person attacked, is a one-year suspension for Bertuzzi out of the question? IMHO, probably not. I'm not sure if he'll get that much, but I don't think it's out of the question at this point. It will certainly be an interesting decision given the precedent the McSorley/Brashear incident created.
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| 39 | Dec
ID: 3927119
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:07
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The sucker punch was one thing, but falling on Moore and continuing the agression when the guy was lining on the ice was more what upset people.
Criminal Charge: He won't have more than 6 months probation for that.
Civil Charge: Has to be initiate by the Avalanche (forget about it, they are league associate) or by Moore and for that to happen he need a career ending injury to start thinking about it or stop thinking about playing in the NHL.
BTW TLW, you have to admit that the visor was helpful this time or more would look like Kevin Stevens.
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| 40 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 10:17
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Yeah, I am really not able to see Bertuzzi's point of view on this...nor disagree with Mr. Vescey on the issue of overt threats being made and then enacted on. Hockey does not have to have this degree of violent culture to be successful. Bertuzzi warned Moore, chased Moore, got Moore, and pummeled Moore, like the way Wile E. Coyote looks after falling from the sky. He could have easily killed him (not far-fetched given that he DID break his neck and was loading up again). It is not necessary.
Blaming the victim -- "he turned his back," is not the answer. The outward aggression, revenge, and ultimate severity of this incident and other like it, indicative of the more insidious and implied violence part of the hockey culture, IMO, is a "caveman mentality."
I have followed hockey in NYC for 25 years. I have only played street hockey; I have limited experience "in the game." However, from an "appreciation of the sport" point of view, and a desire to see the sport succeed financially and endure, I cannot believe this stuff will help. More importantly, from a moral point of view (is this violence necessary? what does it teach kids? etc.), it's appalling.
I do not know the answer, but always thought I heard that this level (intensity and frequency) of violence does not exist in European hockey. I bet there are incidents there as well, but not as frequent nor as sickening. Still, there may be some exceptions. Anyone know this for sure?
Can hockey succeed without the intense aggressive part of the game? Is this question moot or absurd? Do we see this frequency and severity of aggressive actions in collegiate hockey or in the minors? I am not suggesting that Bertuzzian or McSorleyian actions happen all the time, but I am more referring to the "seeking out of an targeted opponent" for revenge in a subsequent game due to a previous altercation. It's just a matter of probabilities that this premeditated attacks will really phuck someone up for life.
Or is it just "too late." This part of the game has been inbred for so long, it'll take generations for it to go away.
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| 41 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 16:18
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Just wondering what you guys think of Bertuzzis cheap shot compared to intentional beanings in baseball. In my mind, beanings are just as bad if not worse. Bertuzzi's suspension seems long but I think they are just trying to make an example of him. Although its hard to determine a pitcher's intent in baseball I think MLB should consider starting to hand out long suspensions now to set examples before it takes someone getting seriously hurt to make them change.
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| 42 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 16:34
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I hate the beanings and resulting fights in baseball. Both should be removed from the game through strong punishments. It's okay to throw inside, but not to intetionally hit someone. It's also not okay that everyone leaves the dugout and bullpen to "even the numbers" on the field. Ridiculous.
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| 43 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 18:44
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I don't think beanings are as bad as Bertuzzi's hit for a number of reasons, including: 1. The pitcher has his eye on the ball to begin with. As soon as he sees it coming his way, he at least a.) has a chance to react and b.) can prepare for any impact the ball may have. 2. VERY few pitchers will head-hunt. A typical beanball is in the back, butt, arm, or leg region. 3. There is no "follow through" of pushing the batter to the ground and/or smashing their face into the dirt... well, at least not until the brawl starts. Now, on to what I think baseball should do... 1. Any player that leaves their position on the field or leaves the bench should be hit with an automatic, no questions asked, no appeals, 5-game suspension. 2. Any player who throws a punch at another player should receive an automatic, no questions asked, no appeals, 10-game suspension. 3. Any pitcher who hits a batter following a HR by the other team should receive an automatic, no questions asked, no appeals, 5-game supspension. (If you did it on accident, you better learn how to throw strikes. This is the major leagues we're talking about) 4. Any pitcher who retaliates by hitting the other teams batter should receive a 10-game suspension. This one is a bit in the grey area because there would have to be some system to determine intent. I would say about 90% of the time, everybody watching the game knows what the intent is/was. That other 10% should receive a stern warning and if they come under review again and fall in that 10% again, give them a 5-game suspension. 5. Make all the above stackable. In other words, if a pitcher beans a batter after the other team hit a HR and he leaves the mound, charges the batter, and hits him, he'll have a nice little 20-game suspension. Now some of this may seem a bit extreme, but I think fighting has gotten out of control in baseball. You see a brush-back pitch and suddenly we have every player from both teams having a shoving match in the middle of the field. 30 minutes later, we return to baseball. It's ridiculous. One thing about hockey is that you don't see players leaving the bench to join in a fight because of the harsh suspensions the NHL has in place. Do the same thing for MLB and watch how quickly things will change. And if you enforce the suspensions for leaving your position, you won't have any unfair fights if and when they occur. It'll likely be pitcher and hitter and that's it. But even if they do leave their position, they won't be throwing punches with a 10-game suspension tied to it. The only way to calm it all down is to make the punishment so severe that there's no question about what the players will do, or won't do in this case.
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| 44 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 21:15
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I was pretty much thinking along your lines KKB...the only difference being the comparison of Berts hit and a beaning. I find them similar because Bertuzzis case was somewhat of an extreme situation of everything going wrong. Had Moore not been KO'd on impact he probably would've been able to brace for the fall and probably not have been seriously hurt. The intent seemed to be to hit him and get a message across, much like a beaning. Standing in the batters box with a fastball coming at your head only gives the batter a fraction of a second to react, which is similar to no time like Moore had, so in the beanball situation, I could easily see a worst case situation happening one day where a pitcher means to hit the guy in the back for payback and gets him right in the face perhaps causing loss of vision or a cracked skull. Though I would still rather take my chances of getting out of the way of a ball then getting punched from behind, I would rather get hit with a fist then a 90mph baseball.
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| 45 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Thu, Mar 11, 2004, 22:08
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I agree that the intent is the same, but the results are not. That's why I don't think you can say they're the similar. No matter what Bertuzzi intended or what would have happened if Moore hadn't been in such a prone position, the fact is that Moore now has a broken neck. Now, if you wanted to compare just the idea of a hockey player punching a guy from behind to a pitcher beaning a hitter, I think it's a more direct comparison. But given that serious injury rarely happens as a result of a beaning, I don't find it similar at all to the result of Bertuzzi's actions.
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| 46 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 04:36
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I was gonna say that serious injury rarely happens from hockey suckerpunches also, however they are much more rare than beanings. The fact that there hasnt been serious injuries from beanings is shocking though because I still cant convince myself that they are less vicious than Bertuzzi type hits. I guess it just depends how you look at it.
On another note, there is an article posted on the ESPN hockey page called Blame Canada that gives me the same amount of respect for media that TLW has. They are basically trying to pin any act of violence ever in hockey on Canada, it is totally ignorant. I can't even see how they allow stuff like that to be put on their website.
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| 47 | Dec
ID: 37217129
Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 10:17
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In the NFL if a player takes an opponent out with a cheap shot, he is heavily penalized and the other team rewarded with field position.
Oh Yeah! 15 yards
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| 48 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 11:05
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Dec, that's assuming no injury on the play. The NFL always reviews things like that every week and hands out fines and/or suspensions as needed. Besides, you're talking about a guy in full pads with a full helmet.
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