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Subject: And the Media Vultures Strike Again
Posted by: The Left Wings
- [6142019] Sun, Mar 21, 2004, 02:18
Karel Pilar two-hands Ossi Vaananen when he's losing balance.
And of course, somebody had to say something that's quite uninformed. Here's Teemu Selanne, who's pointless in the last 14 games after being -2 in tonight's game, has to say:
``That has got to stop. I think every team has to have a meeting and talk about this stuff because we can't let this happen,'' Selanne said. ``The guys are so strong these days. I know the intensity level is high every game, and the coaches tell us to play hard and finish your checks, be tough, but there is a line between stupidity and playing hard.''
Now it's quite obvious why he's pointless in 14 games now. He's scared. He's afraid to go all out and do what it takes to score a point. His line between stupidity and playing hard is drawn too far away from what the rest of the league draws it -- and compared to the norm, he thinks it's stupid to play hard.
I assume you all have watched the replay of the two-handed slash over and over again. It is quite obvious that Pilar lost his balance with only one foot on the ice and his centre of gravity at his back. He managed to plant his other foot on the ice, but the only way to regain balance is to swing with his arms. Now, I assume all of you have the experience of falling, and I assume all of you know that why having a stick in the hand helps balancing (think the wire-walkers in the circus). There was no way Pilar would lose his grip on his stick because that's the only thing that's preventing him from injuring himself. What does the media want him to do when he was purely acting on reflex that almost every single person would do?
What's wrong with players getting injured? It's a job hazard that every single one of them accepted when they became professional players. What the media want is a league where nobody gets injured. But surely, we won't shell out our hard-earned money to watch a casual, recreational hockey game at your local community centre. The All-star Game is a fine change of pace, but who would want to watch that type of (almost) non-contact hockey for the whole season?
I'm sure the reporters are pretty happy now that they have another prey to feed on for the next week. Parasites... that's what they are. |
| 1 | kev
ID: 3155515
Sun, Mar 21, 2004, 02:31
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Dude...the play happened tonight. I have seen the highlight of Nolan's goal just as much....
And is Selanne in the media? I do believe it wasn't the media making a big deal about this, it was a player.
Get a grip man.
And enjoy your Canucks first round playoff exit thanks to.... "Big Bert" and his lack of brainpower.
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| 2 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Sun, Mar 21, 2004, 03:22
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Selanne wasn't part of the media, but the media are jumping on the chance to use what he says to add authority to what they have to say.
You stop with the Bertuzzi incident already. You are sounding just like those parents who go nuts when their children get tapped on the shoulder on the ice. Just because Moore was as fragile as a piece of glass shouldn't amplify Bertuzzi's mistake the way it did. It was just blown way out of proportions by the media, and the NHL was under pressure to save face by robbing the Vancouver fans of their fan favourite, so that the casual viewers across North America, who are under the media's propaganda just like you are, would be satisfied.
If someone should get a grip, it should be you. My frustration towards the sports media spreading propaganda is legitimate. You, on the other hand, have an opinion and an ideal that would destroy the game as we know it.
So players lose teeth, some may lose an eye, some may get paralyzed and some might die. So what? They accepted the danger when they became a professional, so they should accept the consequences if something bad happened to them. What you want to do is to help people to avoid consequences of their actions or career decisions.
You should stop advocating the idea of pampering the men who are clearly old enough to make decisions by themselves. Stop making decisions for them.
Mansel and Earnhardt Sr. died in crashes. That's very unfortunate for their families, but that's just part of the risk the two drivers took when they became professionals.
The following is a popular internet saying:
Spoilers.......................... We're all going to die!
You'll die, I'll die, my whole family will die, and even my future children will eventually die. Moore will die, Bertuzzi will die, and so will Sakic, Thornton, your favourite player and everybody else.
What's wrong with somebody dying on the ice? In fact, I'd rather my lights get turned off (*snaps fingers) just like that instead of dying a long, excruciating death from a disease.
I probably have taken my point too far. But you get my point: you are taking injuries and death, which are inevitable, way too seriously. So Bertuzzi mugged Moore from behind, what's the big deal? It's not like the Avs lost their best scorer. If you should whine, you should whine about the Avs sending a crappy player like Moore out to fodder by taking out Naslund. Now that's cheap.
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| 3 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Sun, Mar 21, 2004, 20:11
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It was Wade Belak not Karel Pilar.
How can you say a body check is worse than a club to the head.
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| 4 | Caper
Donor
ID: 1535108
Mon, Mar 22, 2004, 11:54
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I am going to wade into this with my 2 cents worth, as silly as it may be. The idea that a player accepts a certain risk by donning hockey equipment and accepting money to play in the NHL is one that I agree with. The player has accepted to live and work by the rulels of the NHL, which have been shaped over countless years of Terrible Ted Lindsay's, Gordie Howes, John Fergosun, Dave Shultz, Tiger Williams....you fill in the name. The game is supposed to police its play.
Now this is where I get a little more controversial. If the NHL does not start to police the game and eliminate the vigilantism that now goes on, it will be culpable for the death that will result. In the same way that I must make the workplace of my employees as safe as I can from potential hazards, the NHL must make its workplace safe. If an employee in my plant/office/whatever does something that could severely injure or even kill a fellow employee then the consequences are severe. If I do not respond to the situation then I am shirking my responsibilty and am as culpable as the bartender who sends a drunk onto the roads.
Solid hitting and phyical play are parts of the game. If a player dies after receiving a solid body check then that is terrible, but a rare thing that happens in a well played game. If a player dies from a hockey stick swung at his head in a fit of rage, then that is not a part of the game. That is an entirely unacceptable behaviour. If it is, then it must be penalized as such. Not to do so, even if a death/severe injury do not result, is mis-management of the business and, in my opinion, makes you at least partly resonsible when the injury inevitably happens.
There is no line in the NHL, until an injury happens. Don't try and talk about misconducts and 2 or 3 game suspensions as deterents because they are not. There does not appear to be anything that you could do which would result in your not being allowed back into the NHL. If that makes sense to you, then we are not seeing things anywhere the same.
I have never been especially against fighting in the game, although a part of me knows that it should never be allowed because of the potential injury factor. But I do not buy the notion that these players have to have an "outlet" for their frustrations through pounding on each other. Think about that. That is absolutely ridiculous and demeaning to anyone involved in the game. How can it more frustrating than wrestling 300 pound lineman who are trying to flatten your quarterback, being slammed in the guts by a 230 pound missile as you extend your arms to catch a pass, being flattened by a 200 pound outfielder trying to knock the ball from your glove at the plate, being slammed into by a 6'9" athelete flying to the basket ignoring your presence. These sports do not allow a team to send out a player to beat up the offender on the other team. It simply is not acceptable. Do tempers run short once in a while and altercations happen? Sure, but the response in quick and decisive. You are out of the game immediately, pending a review.
What I am saying is that if the NHL does not start to enforce it's own rules like it means it, then there will be consequences in the future. The player who is maimed or killed will certainly share some of the blame because they knew the job they were taking, but the league will assume even more because it refuses to try and provide a safe workplace. It turns a blind eye to the activities.
TLW, I love the traditional NHL. The players today are much larger, the sticks better, the skates better, the ice the same size. Players do not have to try and kill each other to make the game enjoyable for a knowledgeable fan, they just have to play hard solid hockey. If the league does not start to police itself it runs the risk of becoming another professional wrestling circuit with staged fights and wild acts of vigilantism. That is, I think, a sad product to show for a very fine sport.
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| 5 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Mon, Mar 22, 2004, 12:40
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TLW, you are so off the deep end here, it's almost as if you are doing it on purpose, satirically, to get a rise out of the rest of us and see how we respond. I am really not sure if you are serious.
If you are, I don't think your feelings are in majority here, but you are certainly entitled to present them. However, wrong they may be.
;-)
And, I have to agree with kev, in many ways, your canucks will exit soon, maybe not winning a game in the playoffs, no thanks to one of your best players losing his grip -- tremendous failure going on in vancouver now. Then again, you could be a ranger fan like me (but then again, vancouver is the only team we have beaten in the playoffs in the last 10 years, and it was for the cup. Who woulda thunk).
- walk
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| 6 | The Left Wings
ID: 177582015
Mon, Mar 22, 2004, 18:00
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I suppose that hurt my credibility, but I've always confused Pilar and Belak. Their first syllables "Pee' and "Bee" sound similar, and the next two letters are both "la"... Oh well. Back onto my rant.
Now I hear that people called Belak's incident "vicious attack" and "intent to injure". That is totally not true. How can somebody who's desperately trying regain his balance think about using his stick to whack somebody behind him in his head?
Of course I'm not in the majority here. Most of you didn't see both events happen live on TV. Most of you only saw the edited replays that only show the crime. The media are trying to frame them, and you are getting your info from the media. I wouldn't expect that I'm in the majority because most of you bought most of the propaganda the media are trying to spread.
For example, the media keep crying that the game sucks. So they present to you all the bad things about it. After seeing those stuff, you'll come to think that the game does indeed suck.
This kind of reminds me of the pro-life people. They also only show one side of things. Just like their recent commercial that only shows images of happy babies crawling around or running on a lawn merrily. They failed to show us how miserable these children's parents would be if they were born. They also failed to show us how bad the surroundings would be for those children. Remember, those people who have kids who have a bright-green lawn to run around, probably don't need to consider abortion.
Anyways, I digressed. It was the pro-life people's job to spread false-images, and the sportswriters aren't that far away from them.
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| 7 | Filthy Rich
ID: 39246512
Mon, Mar 22, 2004, 21:24
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Dont worry kev and walk, Jovo's back and the Canucks wont be making an early exit.
Also, I hate to sound like a loser correcting everyone, but I believe the Rangers also have beat the Islanders, Capitals and Devils in the playoffs during the last 10 years;)
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| 8 | Synergy
ID: 48245323
Tue, Mar 23, 2004, 06:31
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hmmm, how did karel pilar hit vaananen from the press box? it must have been a really long stick. ;)
seriously though, TLW, I think the only vulture is you. :) I know you're mad that the canucks just gave up. But really though, don't take it out on everyone else. :P
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| 9 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Tue, Mar 23, 2004, 08:53
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Funny Synergy. Filthy Rich -- rangers beating someone to win the cup, not anyone in the playoffs. Correct me not.
TLW: I do not think there is a media conspiracy. You sound almost paranoid. There are no anti-hockey conspiracy theories. How's this to fuel your angst. Here are my suggestions on making hockey more fun to watch, and generate more TV revenues:
- widen the rinks to olympic size
- outlaw fighting and all forms of really dirty play.
- penalize hooking and grabbing often and consistently.
- award 3 points for a regulation win, 2 points for an OT win, and 1 point for an OT loss or a regulation tie.
- continue with a 4-on-4 OT.
- eliminate the red line, or allow 2-line passes, or move the blue lines up, or something to open up the passing lanes.
- make the game 2 halves, not 3 periods (radical, but amongst other things, two intermissions makes it so hard for hockey to get new fans).
Stuff like that. My favorite hockey games to watch involve end to end play, with scoring opportunities and space for skilled players to show off their stuff. This does not preclude tough checking and tenacious play. I do not need to see 6-5 games, but would be plenty happy with exciting 2-1 games. Neutral zone traps do not make for exciting games. Fights are for neaderathals and old-school fans. Ultimately, the style of hockey played in the olympics is preferable to me, but I realize that is confounded by the fact that each team is an all-star team and that talent is far more diffused in the NHL. To the extent we can approximate that style of play, where players like Marc Savard dominate and not Donald Brashear, then I would think hockey will succeed.
Radical ideas, but I don't care. The ugly stuff gives hockey a wrestling connotation, and stereotype. Defending the ugly stuff and blaming it on the media is misguided. Hockey is great, a wonderful, fast, skilled game, that IMHO, is marred by brutes who have to do other things to compensate for their lack of skill. This is another point that makes the Bertuzzi thing so odd, that guy has skills! He is soooo very good. Kinda like Keith Tkachuk, but bigger -- and Keith is not a shrimp. Tkachuk is also one tough player, but he does seem to stop short of completely going mad.
A rant for sure, that was very off-topic. Apologies, but I think the way the game is played, and the rules, and the lack of skating room, and the lack of penalties called against infractions that slow the game down, all contribute (not cause, but contribute) to the violence.
- walkman
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| 10 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Tue, Mar 23, 2004, 19:35
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Last night the Game 7 final of the (I think) Wales Conference final from 1989 was on the NHL Network, and I was amazed just how much the game has changed. The flow of the entire game was amazing, end-to-end action, and lots of hitting. (Lots of open-ice hitting too.) The play wasn't exactly 'skilled', there was still dump-and-chasing on the PP's, and a couple garbage goals from in front by gutsy 'storm the net' types, but the whole game was fun to watch. Obviously it being Game 7 of a playoff series helped, but the fans were just SO in to it.
I was recently at the Mtl-Col game here in Mtl, and I came away saying that it was one of the best games I'd seen in a while. In fact it was. But after seeing the 1989 game 7 on TV I loaded up a few 1993 Habs games I had on VHS, and the Mtl-Col game I had seen really paled in comparison. As much as I hate to say it, the game as it is sucks. And no TLW, it isn't the 'media' feeding me this opinion, its ME making an informed opinion based on actual games I've watched. I'll always be a hockey fan since I PLAY hockey, but an NHL fan? I wish I could say "definitely, forever" but even with my Habs playing great and looking strong heading into the post-season, it just isn't the same. I hope the NHL shuts down next year, and we come back in 2005-06 with a brand-new game, reminicent of the good-old days.
CALL every hook/slash/trip that happens, even if it means building bigger penalty boxes to fit all the offenders. Ban fighting, encourage checking (the Mtl-Col game I saw featured about 3 'hits'), ban backwards skating in the neutral zone, and finally, get the refs off the ice. In this day and age of video cameras, there's NO reason we need 4 refs on the ice. (Especially if fighting is outlawed.) They just get in the way. In that Mtl-Col game, poor Teemu Selanne was leaving the penalty box while receiving a breakaway pass, then had to deke a linesman on his way there, only to run right into another ref who was trying to get out of the way. Teemu just sat on the ice for about 5 seconds with a "WTF" look on his face. Put 'em in a room somewhere with about 50 different camera angles, and a button linked to buzzer that stops play when a penalty is seen.
Anyway, like walk said, I'm ready for some radical changes. The game IS already radically different then it used to be, so purists should WANT these changes too. Lets get our game back.
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| 12 | C.SuperFreaks
ID: 570522710
Tue, Mar 23, 2004, 21:53
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NHL Front Office at work
An apology of sorts
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| 13 | C.SuperFreaks
ID: 570522710
Tue, Mar 23, 2004, 21:54
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sound on for full effect...
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| 14 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Wed, Mar 24, 2004, 04:13
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CALL every hook/slash/trip that happens, even if it means building bigger penalty boxes to fit all the offenders. Ban fighting, encourage checking (the Mtl-Col game I saw featured about 3 'hits'), ban backwards skating in the neutral zone, and finally, get the refs off the ice.
Oh. My. God. That's just... totally wrong.
If you call everything, you'll just see as many innocent in the penalty box as real offenders because there will be tons of diving if every hook/slash/trip is called.
Ban fighting? Where's the fun? Those bench-clearing brawls are the best. That Ottawa-Philly game was fun to watch.
Ban backward skating? You might as well ban the idea of "defense" altogether. You're crazy.
You won't be able to get the refs off the ice cuz there's this thing called "union".
I advise you to go watch more games at your local community centre instead of your TV. They got your type of no-contact hockey games in there where few people know how to skate backwards. I'm not going to pay to watch a game of which I can do the stuff that they do. I want to watch games when people do stuff that I can't do.
Or go watch women's hockey. Leave the men's game alone. Obviously the men's game is not your type of hockey, so you should go watch another type.
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| 15 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Wed, Mar 24, 2004, 05:12
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TLW, you just don't know what your talking about. Clearly 'fighting' to you is the only way to see an agressive game. If I wanted to see a boxing match I'd go to a boxing match.
I play in a league with full contact, and there are times guys are practically taking each other's heads off in the corners while fighting for the puck, the checking and jostling is so intense. However, once the whistle goes more often then not I can turn to the guy I was just battling with and say 'good battle' and get a grin in return. THATS hockey. Not getting so worked up that I want to destroy the people on the other team. Thats just stupid. Sometimes that anger turns into fights, and the other times it turns into a spear, or a slash, or a punch to the back of the head. Bertuzzi was FURIOUS with Moore. And it just doesn't have to be that way.
If you call everything, you'll just see as many innocent in the penalty box as real offenders because there will be tons of diving if every hook/slash/trip is called.
That'll be up to the refs to adapt. If there's diving they need to call it. It happens now, so what difference is there? I'd rather make the refs better then try to cover their mistakes by accepting half of what they miss.
Ban fighting? Where's the fun? Those bench-clearing brawls are the best. That Ottawa-Philly game was fun to watch.
No, they aren't the best. They're mildly entertaining at best. If you want pure fighting, go watch an Ultimate Fighting match or something. Besides, most fights are just two goons grabbing at each other trying to get their hands free. Fun. *Yawn*
Ban backward skating? You might as well ban the idea of "defense" altogether. You're crazy.
Yes, the idea here is to handicap some of the insane defensive systems that have cropped up. Would defense be impossible? No way. It would be harder though, and make the game more fun to watch. If you want to watch supreme defense go watch soccer. This is hockey, and I'd rather see some great goals then some great neutral-zone traps.
You won't be able to get the refs off the ice cuz there's this thing called "union".
The tacky sarcasm aside (which you should drop, since you miss everyone else's sarcasm anyway) you obviously didn't read my idea thoroughly. Take them off the ice, and put them in a room somewhere with about 20 big screen TV's. More often then not the TV announcers see penalties and such better then the on-ice officials anyway. Technology makes things so much easier, but the refs can't use technology if they're on the ice dodging pucks and players.
I advise you to go watch more games at your local community centre instead of your TV. They got your type of no-contact hockey games in there where few people know how to skate backwards. Or go watch women's hockey. Leave the men's game alone. Obviously the men's game is not your type of hockey, so you should go watch another type.
This is my game too, and I'll comment on what I think is best for it if I wish. I've played it for 10 years now and have watched more games at the Forum and Bell/Molson Center live then you'll probably get to watch in your entire life. I've slowly watched the game degrade into a hooking and defensive specialist festival, and I'd rather see the 80's and early 90's era when the top stars could be TOP STARS, then watch a crappy team like Minnesota trap their way into the playoffs. A great goalie and a crappy but willing supporting cast should not equal a Stanley Cup contender.
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| 16 | R9
Leader
ID: 2624472
Wed, Mar 24, 2004, 05:15
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I also just realized that you again failed to read my post properly.
Ban backward skating?
From the way you wrote this comment, you clearly missed the part in the neutral zone. Of course they can skate backwards in their own zone. Dummy. This idea was even brought up at the GM meetings, and garnered popular support from alot of respected people. So no, I'm not 'crazy'.
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| 17 | walk
Leader
ID: 32928238
Wed, Mar 24, 2004, 08:20
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TOTALLY with you R9. Together, we can beat the crap out of TLW, and then ban fighting.
;-)
TLW: You are a dinosaur and our sport will go extinct with that thinking. I want the Selanne's to succeed not fail in lieu of the thugs and the brawls (if brawls are the best part for you, you and old-school hockey should take that mentality to the WWF). Hockey needs to clean up its on-ice game, so that we can all enjoy the grace, speed and skills to their fullest extent (i.e. the neutral zone trap is not exciting).
As R9 said, call every hook and hold until then finally "get it." Open the game up!!!
- walk
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