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Subject: Yahoo Fantasy Hockey League
Posted by: barilko6
- [135452210] Tue, Aug 09, 2005, 14:10
Hey there all..
Not sure if there is already one set up, but I am looking to put together a Yahoo Fantasy Hockey League, with a complete slow draft here on Rotoguru if there is enough interest.
Leave a note here if you are interested in such a league.
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| 1 | philflyboy@work
ID: 5152167
Tue, Aug 09, 2005, 14:55
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I am interested
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| 2 | C.SuperFreak
ID: 40721313
Tue, Aug 09, 2005, 16:32
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yes
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| 3 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Tue, Aug 09, 2005, 20:34
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I'd like to join.
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| 4 | Hubble
ID: 59562922
Tue, Aug 09, 2005, 21:10
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f'course!
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| 5 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Aug 09, 2005, 22:32
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Yay! I'd like to join.
And the way things are, I think that the waiver wire is more important than the draft. So for once, I don't mind having the last first-round pick.
=)
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| 6 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Wed, Aug 10, 2005, 08:34
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yes I'd play
when do the rookies get added tho ?
20 games in ...or ?
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| 7 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Wed, Aug 10, 2005, 10:54
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I'm interested.
And, of course, I know of a good draft software we can use. ;)
As for rookies and such, I suggest we use the Rotoguru Invitational method of allowing them to be picked. The manager then gets a "placeholder" player (someone who is DEFINITELY not playing) and when the drafted player is added to Yahoo, they make the swap. However, if the "placeholder" player is dropped, then the manager loses the rights to their drafted player and the drafted player is fair game.
Sorry, but I think Crosby (and others) needs to be drafted and not just handed to the person who gets the last pick of the first round.
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| 8 | Little M
ID: 296352016
Wed, Aug 10, 2005, 12:37
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I would be interested as well.
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| 9 | barilko6
ID: 336481112
Wed, Aug 10, 2005, 12:44
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I agree with the rookies, there are definately some that are worthy of being drafted.
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| 10 | barilko6
ID: 135452210
Thu, Aug 11, 2005, 10:34
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Hey...
I've never used Yahoo for their fantasy hockey. How is it laid out in terms of roster size and point structure?
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| 11 | tommyd
ID: 46928248
Thu, Aug 11, 2005, 13:43
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I'd be in as well.
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| 12 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 34743414
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 02:55
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Interested, but I'd just wondering... will this be organized through a "RotoGuru Invitational" setup, like we are doing in the other sports?
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| 13 | mike
ID: 187181017
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 09:53
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I'm interested too. I'll keep an eye on the board
any interest in a keeper league?
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| 14 | wolfer
Sustainer
ID: 18639422
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 09:54
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I'd also be interested.
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| 15 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 12:56
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I'm not involved in them, so I'm not sure how the Invitational Leagues work...
I was thinking of just getting a bunch of puckheads together for a fun draft here on the board. But I am open to anything you guys think will work.
How many players are on a Yahoo Hockey Roster? And how does the point structures work? Pure points? +/-? Power play point bonus? I've never ran a hockey league through Yahoo.
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| 16 | I_AM_CANADIAN
ID: 34743414
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 14:52
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RE 15:
I didn't take part in this one, but KKB should be able to give you more insight, as he was commish I believe:
http://rotoguru1.com/cgi-bin/mb/hock/5263.shtml?1065584467
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| 17 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 18:13
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Alright...
Well if we go with the first 12 signed up...
Then so far we would have:
1. Barilko6
2. Phillyflyboy
3. C.Superfreak
4. The Dienesty
5. Hubble
6. The Left Wings
7. Isles72
8. KKB
9. LittleM
10. I Am Canadian
11. Mike
12. Wolfer
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| 18 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 18:14
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Sorry..I missed TommyD...Can we go with 13?
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| 19 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 18:24
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If you need a 14th I'll play but I don't know if you want to go that high. I'm ok with either way.
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| 20 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 18:37
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ditto. Am available as a stand-in.
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| 21 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Sun, Aug 14, 2005, 18:49
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As early as it is, we might have enough for 2 leagues if we can round up another commish. It's still blazing down here. :)
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| 22 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 09:48
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I like the point structure set up in the link post 16, and I feel all rookies should be open to be drafted.
As for keepers...I am in favour, but would go with the general consensus.
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| 23 | KrazyKoalaBears
Leader
ID: 517553018
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 10:53
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The Rotoguru Invitational's are NOT TSN-style. They are standard roto-style (well, except for Football, which is point-style, even when it's roto-style, whatever). For those who are unfamiliar with roto-style, read this about baseball.
The deal with the Rotoguru Invitationals are that there are more teams than usual (16 in baseball) and more positions than usual (12 batters/9 pitchers/4 bench in baseball), meaning you have to go DEEEEEEEEEEP into the talent pool. Guys you would normally never have on your fantasy squad suddenly become valueable.
The other thing about the Rotoguru Invitationals is that they tend to use stats that are the most meaningful. So, we use OBP and SLG in baseball instead of AVG and HR. All the other categories are the same as a typical roto league, but those 2 changes make a difference.
Suggested categories might be:
Non-Goalie
PTS, PPP, +/-, PIM, SOG
Goalie
W, T, SHO, GAA, Sv%
The two that I'm hesitant on are PIM and GAA. PIM obviously gives value to Defensemen where they otherwise might not have it, but I'm coming around to the thinking that PIM's are not neccesarily a positive thing. GAA I'm hesitant on because I've done the research to know that it's completely based on the team in front of the goalie and the goalie's Sv%. In that case, we're essentially giving double-credit to a goalie for his Sv% and adding in a bonus for the defense that plays in front of him.
As for keepers, if we wanted to do Rotoguru Invitational-style, then there wouldn't be keepers and we would set up a AAA league for promotion/demotion each year.
Anyhow, those are my thoughts.
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| 24 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 11:09
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Hmm..
As for myself, I prefer keepers over the tiered league structure. By allowing for a small number of keepers, it enhances the drafting process, as well as gives bad teams a chance to make some meaningful trades later in the season.
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| 25 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 11:20
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Just to get the idea ball rolling:
Lets enlarge the Yahoo Roster Size to make the lesser known players a little more valuable, and our teams a little more like a full roster NHL:
3 centers, 3 left wings, 3 right wings, 6 defensemen, 2 goalies, 5 Bench, 2 IR.
Point Structure:
Stat Categories (F/D): Goals, Assists, Plus/Minus, Powerplay Points, Penalty Minutes,
Stat Categories (G): Wins, Ties, Shutouts, Goals Against Average, Save Percentage
Keepers
Allow for 3 or 4 Keepers on each team
Any thoughts?
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| 26 | Little M
ID: 296352016
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 12:42
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It seems to me that the first question that needs to be answered is whether it will be a point based league or a roto style league. Both have been suggested, in posts 16 and 23. I am fine with either.
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| 27 | barilko6
ID: 257211311
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 13:36
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I like roto style myself...Any other opinions?
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| 28 | Little M
ID: 296352016
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:10
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If we are using a roto style league, I don't like the idea of using ties as a category for goalies. Too much luck involved. The only problem is that I can't think of anything better to replace it with.
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| 29 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:30
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I'd like to do roto-style as well, but I'm not a fan of the listed categories. Here's some more ideas to poke holes at:
1: Drop PIMs and Ties and just have 4 categories on each side (my preference)
2: Replace PIMs with Shots Taken and Ties with Saves
3: Add shots taken and remove ties - 6 skater categories and 4 goalie categories should help to even the value a little bit
Thoughts?
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| 30 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:33
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#25 I would lose ''ties'' as a goalie category and replace it with ''saves''
I'd prefer not to make it a keeper - just round up same fellas next season etc...
roto - head to head , 12 -14 teams is cool with me
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| 31 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:39
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Do you guys want saves and save pct. as goalie categories? They appear to be the same thing to me...
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| 32 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:46
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I think of them as being more different than they would seem. A goalie with a high save % isn't necessarily one who is high in saves, period.
Here was the top 10 in saves in the 02-03 season (min 41 games): Denis, Luongo, Kolzig, Belfour, Giguere, Theodore, Vokoun, Khabibulin, Roy, Brodeur. And the top 10 in save % (min 41 games): Turco, Roloson, Cechmanek, Belfour, Roy, Giguere, Kolzig, Luongo, Snow, Vokoun.
Only 6 of the top 10 are the same and Belfour was the only top 5 in both.
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| 33 | Perm Dude
Dude
ID: 030792616
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:46
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Save percentage would seem to be a better number to use. Saves alone is derived from opponent shots on goal, which is an indication of defensive skill rather than goalie skill.
That is, a crappy team defense would give a goalie more save opportunities, which isn't a reflection of the goalie himself. But stopping a higher percentage of the shots that do get through is a reflection of the individual's skill.
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| 34 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 15:51
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I agree with Perm...
I would be inclined to go with Wins, SOs, Save Pct. and GAA for the Goalie Categories, with a caveat of minimum number of goalie games played so that someone doesn't just pick a part time goalie to get a good GAA and Save Pct.
And then:
Goals, Assists, Points, PPP, Shots, and +/- as 6 player categories.
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| 35 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 16:15
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''saves'' gives value to goalies on weaker teams who wont be as inclined to gets as many WINS
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| 36 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 16:28
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Well...looks like there is a lot of interest.
If nobody objects to a larger league, we can include all 15 people who have expressed interest so far, and just shorten the roster size a bit.
1. Barilko6
2. Phillyflyboy
3. C.Superfreak
4. The Dienesty
5. Hubble
6. The Left Wings
7. Isles72
8. KKB
9. LittleM
10. I Am Canadian
11. Mike
12. Wolfer
13. TommyD
14. The Beezer
15. Perm Dude
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| 37 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 16:35
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Would PIMs be preferable to Points just so it isn't double-counting goals and assists? I don't like PIMs but I prefer it to G, A, and P being 3 categories.
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| 38 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 16:54
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I'd also prefer PIM's in place of PTS, it opens the opportunity to increase roster size if needed by giving more players value and adds drafting strategy.
Otherwise, i like the way things are shaping up.
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| 39 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 16:57
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hmm...
I like the idea of Penalty Minutes as well. I remember all the old university pools where we were all required to take a goon. Made things fun and interesting. To take it a step further, we also included bonus points for fighting majors...lol
I think I would prefer to go with Save Pct. over Saves though.
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| 40 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 17:20
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I agree Beezer ....would like to see
fwd-def
g
a
+/-
pims
sog's
gwg's
goalie
wins
saves
save%
s/o's
GAA
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| 41 | philflyboy
ID: 8727115
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 18:41
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I like the look of the stats Isles and Beezer presented
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| 42 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 45771221
Mon, Aug 15, 2005, 19:34
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My thoughts...
Saves and Sv% are too closely tied and, as pfb pointed out, Saves are more a reflection of the team in front of the goalie instead of the goalie. Look at Turco: Top 10 in Sv%, but not Saves. Clearly, if he played for FLA, he'd be Top 10 in both. But, because he plays for DAL, we penalize him. Doesn't seem right.
I also don't like the idea of GWG. It's just as much a matter of luck as Ties are for goalies, IMHO.
I like some of the ideas thrown around and I think these are much closer to determining true value of players...
Non-Goalie
PTS, PPP, +/-, SOG
Goalie
W, Sv%, GAA, SHO
Oh, and no keepers is my preference... for what it's worth.
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| 43 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 07:42
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I agree... I am not a huge fan of including GWG's. I do like the idea of PIM as a category to get more production from bottom level guys, especially with a league as large as this one could be.
I am ok with no keepers.
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| 44 | Hubble
ID: 56213211
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 12:10
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I don't mean to burst any bubble here, but wouldn't it unbalance to have as many categories for goalies than for FOR-DEF?
Since we only will have 2 or 3 goalies max (maybe only 1 starter per team or lets say 150 games max) Shouldn't we have only 2 or 3 categories for goalies? Like Wins, Save% and/or GAA?
And have more offensive stats?
I would go for Goals, Assist, PIM, SOG, +/-, PPP, SHG..
This way we would have 10 categories (or so) but with interesting strategy involved without putting to much points into our 2 or 3 goalies...
Even with a 7-3 category, goalies are still going to be a big factor since we would have 3 goalies out of 20 players...
Any thoughts?
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| 45 | Little M
ID: 296352016
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 12:15
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My preference for categories is:
Skaters: G, A, +/-, SOG, PIM
Goalies: W, Sv%, GAA, SHO
The reason for using goals and assists, instead of points is to have six categories for skaters and four for goalies. Otherwise, goalies are just too important.
The reason for using PIM instead of PPP is to give diversity to the pool. Otherwise, the players that do well in players who PTS would also do well in PPP and the bottom players would be of little use.
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| 46 | Little M
ID: 296352016
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 12:20
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I was typing post 45 as Hubble posted his post 44.
I agree with having more categories for skaters than for goalies and realize that I only suggested five categaries for skaters, instead of six. I'm still not a fan of PPP, but would add SHG.
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| 47 | mike
ID: 187181017
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 13:10
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I like keepers for serious, long term stuff.
but on the other hand I also dig the rotoguru tier system.
goalies should definitely have less impact with fewer categories.
just my thoughts
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| 48 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 13:29
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sounds good litte m...
lets get started , shall we
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| 49 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 17:00
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Alright...
lets vote on these few things then:
15 Teams
Roster Size: 3 C, 3 LW, 3 RW, 5 Defense, 2 Goalies and 5 Bench for a 21 Man Roster.
Categories:
Skaters: G, A, +/-, SOG, PIM, PPP
Goalies: W, Sv%, GAA, SHO
That leaves 6 Categories for Offense and 4 for Goalies.
No keepers.
Minimum amount of Games Played by Goalies. (Games Played TBD)
Tiered Roto style Point System. 15 Points for leading a category, and then one less for each position thereafter.
Snake Style Draft, with rookies included.
If you want a roster position held for a rookie not yet included in the Yahoo Database, you can draft that player, but then you must make a public announcement at the start of the league, and then keep a roster spot empty for that player until you can include him on your actual roster.
Any debates on those points? Any additional thoughts?
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| 50 | C.SuperFreak
ID: 53771616
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 17:21
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format looks good. I have nothing to add except:
GAME ON
....car
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| 51 | The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 17:25
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Looks good. No changes here.
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| 52 | Hubble
ID: 56213211
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 17:27
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SHO = Shoutout?
If so, i really don't think that this category should be kept, we have shoutout effects in the GAA and giving 15 points to reward yet another goaling category would unbalance the importance of goalie vs skaters... and as for SHG, the same reasoning goes, how many SHG can a player have in a season? 10? 5? I wouldn't mind having that category and SHO but we should double the points awarded for Goals and Assist (if that would be possible...)
Btw, i realize i did propose the SHG... :) But sometime i just think i make no sense...
Why not just 8 categories (like basketball):
5 offensive: Goals, Assists, +/-, PIM, SOG
3 goalies: Wins, Saves %, GAA
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| 53 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 17:30
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SHG aren't in that final proposal, PPP are...
And I like rewarding a goalie for being able to take it all the way for a complete game no goaler...
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| 54 | Hubble
ID: 59562922
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 18:00
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hhhhoooouuuuuu "Final proposal" ...
rofl
i was just bringing my humble point de vue on the subject...
I'll play whatever format...
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| 55 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 18:02
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lol...I didn't mean for it to be assumed its the "final" proposal...just that with so many different ideas being tossed around I didn't want to confuse things.
I should have put last proposal.
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| 56 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 19:51
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I thought we were playing head to head ?
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| 57 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 21:00
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My preference, and the most responses on here so far, point to rotostyle points.
But I would be willing to go with the consensus on that.
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| 58 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Tue, Aug 16, 2005, 21:33
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Roto.
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| 59 | isles72
ID: 395412514
Wed, Aug 17, 2005, 08:57
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well , I'd prefer h2h ...so if theres enough interest to get two leagues going perhaps one can be h2h , the other roto
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| 60 | barilko6
ID: 135452210
Wed, Aug 17, 2005, 09:43
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alright...
Well I am going to start up a new thread for a Roto League in a couple of days, get people signed up, emails collected and get this thing rolling.
Good luck all!
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| 61 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Thu, Aug 18, 2005, 05:46
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Well, in the event im not around the day you start the thread and it fills up quickly, please put me in for the roto league.
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| 62 | barilko6
ID: 135452210
Thu, Aug 18, 2005, 09:50
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Will do Dienesty.
I am going to wait until Yahoo gets some stuff up and running, or at least until a couple of stats magazines come out.
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| 63 | Little M
ID: 296352016
Thu, Aug 18, 2005, 12:23
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barilko6, thanks for offering to set up the pool. I'm not sure if I have missed hockey games or the pools the most.
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| 64 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Thu, Aug 18, 2005, 14:33
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Thanks Little M...
Yeah, me too, I can't wait to get drafting and into a hockey pool again!
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| 65 | The Dienasty
ID: 132591
Fri, Aug 19, 2005, 06:01
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IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!
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| 66 | barilko6
ID: 07381514
Fri, Aug 19, 2005, 07:44
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Sweet....this is like Christmas morning!!!
I am going to start a new thread, post the rules that were talked about, get emails, and then we can set a draft start date!!!
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