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Subject: Is GMD bad for the forum?
Posted by: Ultimate Guy
- [39257114] Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 15:56
I know participation in the forum drops off every year as the season reaches its conclusion but each year it seems to get worse. The majority of the folks who still have a vested interest in the season or tied to a GMD team. I would suspect that GMD is not the reason why since most of these folks are committed participants that finish near the top each year.
With the exception of Soulman and squad the other 27 GMD participants have gone underground to discuss hoops making this place even more of a ghost town than it normally would be. I even saw particpants from other GMD teams join the Soulman thread because there own team doesn't post. Now that was good stuff.
The question I ponder is for what? Yes, I know you don't want to give away all of your secrets as we all aim for the top prize, but when the prize is GMD (which there is not a tangible prize for by the way) and people are still limiting their discussion to email, it makes me think that possibly, just possibly, that GMD kills this forum as much as the lack of interest does.
It is hard enough to overcome one negative force which can't be controlled but when you add a controllable negative force on top of it, can it be good? |
| 1 | Soulman
Donor
ID: 016105313
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 16:44
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Good point you're bringing up, Ultimate Guy. I was wondering myself why there is such a decline in participation despite the fact that there still seems to be a large number of committed managers around. Over the last years usually all four GMD threads, the general trade thread and the injury thread were full of activity. And on most nights the action thread as well.
I do understand that towards the end of the season, the top 1% of managers playing for the big prizes do not reveal their plans when strategies like blocking etc come into play. But as you said, GMD is not a tangible prize anyway so I don't think that staying undercover is necessary (or beneficial) here. On the contrary, I'm quite convinced that active discussion enhances performance so I have the impression that being undercover all the way could even be counter-productive. And while it might be coincidence, luck, or simply the sheer personal skill of each manager I drafted or picked up for our GMD squad, I think it's a bit ironic that exactly the team which most openly revealed and discussed its plans all season long has won every TP except the very first one (when there was activity in all four GMD threads).
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| 2 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 17:25
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I don't know why GMD would be having much impact this year, as the race was (for all practical purposes) settled some time ago. (I suppose there is still a race to avoid the bottom.)
The decline in forum participation tends to happen late in the season in every sport. I think the more casual fans get worn out, and the more competitive ones tend to be more protective of their plans. Hoops also is hurt in March by the start of baseball drafting, which commands much more attention than hoops ever does.
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| 3 | deejay
Donor
ID: 501182710
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 17:40
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I know for one the action threads are very quiet especially this year.
Last year I was already talking to myself half of the time :), the other half, Ole and friends joined me.
I dont think though that GMD is the guilty one...
While it's obvious that "the Soulmen" are dominating the chatter. But that is more of a "coincidence" I guess, since Senator,Soulman and myself like to talk... a lot :)
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| 4 | Soulman
Donor
ID: 016105313
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 17:46
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LOL deejay, do we? I've never noticed that... ;)
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| 5 | Species
Dude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 17:56
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Don't give Senator Urine a hard time. It's not even "just" him in there -- he must have 7 multiple personalities in there that all have to have their say and post on their own. Sadly, about 4 of those personalities are suicidal upon a TSN decision gone wrong! ;-)
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| 6 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 39541913
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 19:13
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In the case of our team, I think we sorta fell into using emails
rather than posting, because that meant we didn't have to go to
the site four or five times a day to see if another team member
had posted something. With email, we're instantly alerted when a
team member has something to say or a question to ask.
For myself, I don't have the stamina of deejay who posts 24
hours a day. When do you sleep man?
Also I often like to write short essays that seem to be too long
for the thread format. I'll post today's email to give you an idea.
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| 7 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 39541913
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 19:15
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Injuries and Inconsistencies. Those are the two words I'd use to
describe this season.
There seem to be more players hurt (or suspended) this season
than ever before. And as Senator Urine pointed out in
yesterday's action thread, there used to be a time when you
could count on studs to score near their average.
As Twolves pointed out, the next couple of weeks are crucial for
each of us. Not necessarily as a GMD team, Soulman seems to
have that locked up, but for our individual teams. For one day
this weekend, I overtook my main competitor for 1st in my
league, then some lackluster play from some of my players
dropped me back to second. It's been less than a stellar season
for me, but if I can end up among the top 100 managers (not
teams) and win my division, I'll be satisfied.
Gescom was the poster boy for picking up injured players
recently, but we all did it. And as for inconsistency, Brand
seems to have joined that group just as many of us bought him.
And the New Jersey boys are in that category as well.
One of the reasons I decided to hold Gasol through several of his
three game weeks, is that for the most part he's been consistent.
But as I start thinking about replacements for Pierce and Brand, I
took a look at Billups and Iverson and Anthony. But all three
reek of inconsistency. Arenas went into a funk, but he's
recently put a couple of good games together, so maybe he
coming out of it.
LaBron has been consistent, but at a number that for me doesn't
justify his price. At that price he should be scoring in the 50s
like he did last season, not the mid-40s like he has been this
season.
The one Denver player who seems to have been putting up
consistent numbers is Camby. And my other hope is Yao. So
who would In put on my all-consistency team, understanding of
course that they'll all have an occasional sub-par game like
Jefferson, Dirk and Kobe had last night.
Camby
Al Jefferson
Amare
Gasol
Garnett
Dirk
Kobe
McGrady
G Wallace
Iguodala (post Iverson trade)
Yao (hopefully)
Arenas (maybe)
One of the thing that surprises me is the inclusion of McGrady,
Wallace and Camby, three players who I have vowed in the past
never to have on my team. Now watch one or more of them get
injured this week :-)
The list is short on guards which is why I recently bought Ricky
Davis who seems well worth his price and has a decent schedule
for the rest of the season.
So my plan for the rest of the season is to try to keep those
players listed above as the bulk of my team starting with the
addition of Yao on the 14th and Camby on the 15th.
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| 8 | ole
ID: 34256820
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 19:27
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yes, actually i remember days when deejay and i were have "exclusive" conversations here on these forums... ;-)
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| 9 | Weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 20:09
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I thing this is a normal function of fantasy sports.
Towards the end of the season the banter dies down.
Be it here or the TSN boards.
On team JCS we dont have much board chatter and have not used E-mail all year.
My spam filter would probably send any E-mails from team members to the spam folder.
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| 10 | Addicted
Dude
ID: 4611592518
Mon, Mar 12, 2007, 21:24
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Is there really much to talk about after ASB?
I mean if you're hovering around 75M or above, you can get whomever you want. Yes some will try to maximize on games, others will look for other openings. But once it gets to this time of the season, you're either playing for a spot in the top 100, winning the division, or in my case pride.
Based on previous years, the chatter does taper off. If you think it's bad now, waiting until opening day for baseball.
GMD, IMHO, is where most of the chatter occurs throughout the year. Before GMD started, there were several Gurupie divisions (go Belly!) that had most of the chatter. But even those tapered off around this time of year.
--Addicted--
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| 11 | Tairese
Donor
ID: 169797
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 09:11
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I dunno about you guys, but I'm just waiting for the season to be over. I'm just passionlessly checking my roster and stuff. The desire to keep my teams up has died, kind of like how it died halfway through the season last year and every year before.
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 20252136
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 09:22
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With Aussie Rules about to start up, there is difficulty in concentrating on hoops, I'm sure...
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| 13 | VP.
ID: 470142911
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 12:30
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I think the is the least active I've seen the forums in several years. There isn't even a weekly trade thread made anymore because all the people who can be counted on to post regularly discuss trades in their GMD threads/emails. GMD is also aggrivating because each team seemed to turn into a group of "e-friends"...some of the teams have been the same for months now. GMD is a cool league but definitely dominates the traffic on these message boards now which makes them much less useful for people who can't or don't get picked for one of the teams.
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| 14 | Ultimate Guy
ID: 39257114
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 13:05
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Good points by everyone and I am sure there are many reasons.
However, I think VP. hit my main point on the head. Since the majority of folks still talking hoops at this time are doing so via email it kills the forum. Follow me on this for a minute. Let's take Dunks email above that he was willing to post. Now let's say that went to the forum and 15 other people not on the list read it. I am certain that someone would respond to something in the email as would one or two of the folks that are part of the GMD team. Those responses generate other ideas opening up options for additional posts.
Take any one post in here away and it removes multiple opportunities for additional feedback or thought. Take away a whole group or 30 some posters away and now we are talking serious issues.
I think in conclusion, I love what GMD is as forum contest but I think managers in the future should consider staying public on their posts if this topic is a concern for them in anyway. If they prefer it that way then so be it but it makes this site obsolete if you can't discuss thoughts and ideas with anyone other than yourself. I can email myself from work to home and back if I wanted to do that ;)
Just my two cents.
UG
P.S. you can add an H to that when talking about my ultimate teams this year.
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| 15 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 39541913
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 14:21
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I think we have to look at a bigger issue: Is waning interest in
TSN Hoops having a negative effect on this board. It seems to
me that this season there are less than half the teams in
Ultimate than there were two or three years ago. Add to that the
increase in managers with multiple teams and the actual number
of managers is even smaller. In fact, a manager with a team
whose WWR ranking is around 225 will get top 100 prize money.
And a number of the major voices that were so significant to the
discussions on this board going back to the Smallworld days no
longer post and probably no longer play the game.
Face it. We're the remaining participants in a declining game.
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| 16 | Dunkenstein
Leader
ID: 39541913
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 14:35
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Another example of waning interest in Ultimate Hoops: Last
year there were 65 managers in the Ultimate standings. This
year there are 37.
My sense from looking at the TSN board is that if there's any
growth in TSN Hoops it's in Basic with trade-buying. It reminds
me of the ski slopes a few years ago as the boarders slowly took
over the mountains. Ultimate players are the last remaining
skiiers in a world of Basic boarders.
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| 17 | Dean Martin
Donor
ID: 489552616
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 15:17
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Sad but true. It would appear that the Ultimate game is in a decline. It's a damn shame because for the money spent you get excellent value in return. I mean where else can you spend $20 and get tortured by injured players from the late fall through spring. Ultimate Hoops is the only game I play and I for one look forward to Nba season every year and dread when April comes. I think maybe we need to recruit some new members because the market base is definitely not expanding.
As far as not posting on the forum for GMD: even though Soulman's team is well in the driver's seat I still post to my teammates on e-mail because twolves has an excellent chance at the grand prize and loose lips sink ships.
I for one will never give in to those damn snowboarders. Like Franz Klammer I will forever be a downhill renegade.
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| 18 | Ultimate Guy
ID: 39257114
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 15:20
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and if 15 and 16 are true, which I think they are, is it better to further break off into smaller groups (GMD) or is it better to keep what little group left that there is unified. Or if there is a break off then at least stay public in the discussion.
More food for thought, how many non-gmd managers leave or don't feel like posting when the only active posts say Team GMD "fill in the blank". An outsider isn't going to post in those threads because they most likely don't feel they belong and how much fun is it to type "intruder" every time one would want to make a comment. Again, I think GMD influences the number of posts and more than one way.
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| 19 | Dr. E
ID: 520321717
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 15:25
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it's because the stakes are not big enough... you have to peak people's interest. I say that since the season is so long it should cost 100 dollars to play.
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| 20 | Dr. E
ID: 520321717
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 15:27
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it's because the stakes are not big enough... you have to peak people's interest. I say that since the season is so long it should cost 100 dollars to play.
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| 21 | jedman
Dude
ID: 315192219
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 20:43
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I post much less than I used to. A couple reasons for that I think. I have made some good friends here over the years and a lot of discussion about teams goes on over the phone or instant messenger.
There are fewer teams, but those playing are all pretty darn good and most moves I have seen have already been discussed by somebody on the board and I don't feel there is a need to add to it.
I think there is some merit in thinking the GMD thing leads to more secretive ways of discussion, but as has been pointed out, Soulman's team was the most open and they did the best. Email is just easier in a lot of ways I think and that is why some people have opted for that. Team Farn has done both and neither way did us much good.
I guess mostly I read all the threads and I don't feel I have that much to add to those that have already posted so I don't bother. I support Guru each year and love his tools and will continue to do so.
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| 22 | Tairese @ work
ID: 3203723
Tue, Mar 13, 2007, 23:26
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Our team JCS wasn't secretive at all, unless they left me out....
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| 23 | VP.
ID: 51014215
Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 01:45
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Dunk is most likely right about declining interest, but there are still more than enough manager to keep the game very exciting to me at least.
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| 24 | VP.
ID: 51014215
Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 01:47
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Also considering RotoGuru is probably the second largest resource around for this game (that I know of) if not the largest, you'd think that an active message board here would go a long way in promoting the game. As I'm sure there are tons of people that stumble upon the site all the time.
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| 25 | allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50902421
Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 02:32
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In general, I think a big reason that board participation goes down near the season end of most sports is that TSN started offering monetary prizes. Competition was strong back in the SmallWorld days, but money wasn't involved. If that's too simplistic an answer, how about this: back in those days a lot of emerging theories were popping up about how to best play the game. As time went on, not only did some of those theories become standard practice, but people were less inclined to discuss the same things over and over again.
Then again, it may be as simple an answer as people that had bad seasons just lose interest. Also, the general player-ship of the TSN game has gone down over the years. I can't say whether there's been a corresponding drop in Gurupie "membership" or not, but it seems likely the amount of TSN-related managers visiting the boards (or being added to the boards) would also decrease. When SW offered the free game, there would be tens of thousands of teams (albeit many were dormant after a while), but once TSN made it a pay game, a lot of less committed managers stopped playing. Also, roto play across all the major sports (at least with the Gurupie collective) has increased quite a bit, it seems. My work league played TSN Ultimate Hoops for three years, but this past year voted to switch to a roto format...
For a more GMD specific answer - I think that when the GMD games first came out (Hoops was the first, back in 2001), it actually sparked a lot of the camaraderie that is still left on the boards. There was a great deal of excitement about the concept of teams of Gurupies competing against other teams of Gurupies. But even with those earlier GMDs, intra-team chatter would drop off a bit near the end of the season...
See, when I don't get enough sleep I ramble...
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| 26 | JCS
Leader
ID: 020102934
Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 07:01
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Well, I do think the GMD is a kind of mixed blessings. I remember when it first started, it brought back a lot of quality managers to speak on the forum at a time when they had basically stopped doing it, reason being they'd rather speak with their friends by email/instant messenger.
On the other hand, people who don't belong to a GMD team probably feel somewhat barred from speaking in GMD threads, and someone belonging to team A probably won't want to speak in team B's thread since there's a team competition aspect in this GMD game. So the overall discussion volume is probably lower than it would be without GMD.
I volunteered to manage a team this year, I probably won't do it again. My favourite part was the draft, but since then it's more of a burden than anything else. You can't force people to discuss everyday on the forum. I personally don't speak much anymore, partly because there are some serious prizes at stake for my TSN team, partly because I'm doing much of my strategy chatter by mail with another forum member, we've been chatting regularly for several years now and most of the time I don't really feel the need to discuss with other people, after all most of us have been playing this for a lot of years now (it's my 8th season I think), so there's not that much to discuss anymore.
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| 27 | Addicted
Dude
ID: 4611592518
Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 09:11
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RE: 23,
LOL,
Tairese,
We post team moves for 2 minutes between 1:30am and 1:33 am EST/EDT.
We then delete them so nobody can see our moves...
Didn't you get the memo?
RE: GMD
GMD is one of the reasons that I still play TSN. Like everyone else has said, the number of managers is dwindling.
And my creative parody juices aren't working so well lately.
--Addicted--
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| 28 | Tairese
Donor
ID: 169797
Wed, Mar 14, 2007, 10:16
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Nah man, send another copy? That explains why I'm so far behind =)
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