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Subject: Help This BB Novice?
Posted by: Toral
- [575542418] Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 20:16
I was moving and offline during late Aug and early Sept and had to miss some FB leagues, so
I decided to try an experiment I have has at the back of my mind for a few years: see how I can do in a competitive hopps league while knowing nothing about (present-day) BB. Now if Oscar Robertson and Jerry West and Bill Bradley were playing I could hold my own. But basically I know ver little except that Yao Ming is tall, Lebron James is a prodigy, Steve Nash dishes out assists and is amazing for a white guy, Allen Iverson is talented but difficult, Shaq isn't what he once was, and Vince Carter is a jerk (Raptor bias).
So...how could I do against knowledgeable people in a competitive league? If I had thot about it early enuf, I would have tried to get into RIHC AA, maybe even tried to find another 11 players to start a league.
Instead I signed up for a public Yahoo! Roto-Competitive-Autodraft league (actually you can draft live in these leagues if you act soon enough) to see how I can do. In this thread I am going at ask for your comments and help. |
| 1 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 20:17
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The Y! league is a default setting 9-category league. (I gather these 9 categories are standard.)
To compile an autodraft list, I looked at a few sets of free BB projections. I then checked -- what else? -- the RIHC draft through Kafenatid's Draft Peek. I found one set of projections which seemed to be amazingly similar to the picks of the best of Rotoguru's best. I followed it (not even having checked RIHC categories, which was dumb). RIHC was only thru 4 rounds when I first looked, and 10 rounds when I drafted, so I followed these other projections for the last few rounds.
When you sign up for an autodraft Y! league, you will get a notice sayong that your league has been drafted and inviting you to go to the league's home page. THIS NOTICE LIES! If you go to the league page immediately after you get the notice, you will be told that the league live draft is about to start, counting down from 20 minutes. A live draft then follows. (The same is true in hockey). So you can tweak your autodraft list.
Here's the team I drafted (by position, not draft order; Y! multi-position guys noted):
PG Chris Paul
SG Kevin Durant (SG, SF)
G Stephen Marbury
SF Andrei Kirilenko (SF, PF)
PF Jermaine O'Neal (PF, C)
F Richard Jefferson
C Yao Ming
C Tyson Chandler
U Marvin Williams (SG, SF)
U Darko Milicic (PF, C)
BN Earl Watson
BN Eddy Curry
BN Kevin Blount (PF,C)
I had planned to be very conservative about trading, fearing that as an innocent naif I would be com,pletely fleeced, but woke up this morning and saw a trade offer. I accepted it.
Gave up:
Durant, Jefferson, Chandler
Received:
Iverson, Wallace, Foye
So, how was my draft? What categories will i need to look for improvement in?
How was my trade?
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| 2 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 20:48
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Which Wallace?
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| 3 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 20:52
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Rahsheed Wallace. Not Ben!
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| 4 | Great One
ID: 201155199
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 20:59
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Gerald Wallace? He's better than both! :)
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| 5 | qwert
ID: 15912114
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:32
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Rasheed is pretty good in yahoo.
I'd say pretty strong draft. I'm not mad about the trade...you lose a lot of rebounding...but you gain alot of points.
I find it hard to give yahoo advice...I think you'll figure it out.
I would peruse the waiver wire for someone better than blount (mark i assume?)...he's not worth owning.
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| 6 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:33
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1. Those 9 categories are standard. The 9th category is turnovers, a stat many of us don't really like playing with, so we typically remove it from our leagues and play with 8 categories.
2. Your trade was tremendous in 8 category leagues, IMHO, but I don't have the TO stats and I'm sure AI has a ton. Obviously Durant was the guy they wanted, and he will have a ton of turnovers too.
3. Playing leagues/sports that you don't really follow can be really tough. You have to read up, read up, and read up some more. The amount of research can be tiring. I've done that before, and I've learned from it. ;)
4. Who is Kevin Blount? Is that Mark Blount?
5. Your team looks very good, although once again I don't have the TO stats.
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| 7 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:44
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Oh. So turnovers are bad in Hoops?
If this seems like a dumb question...well PIM is a positive category in Hockey.
Iverson had 268 turnovers. Looking at other players that seems like a lot to me.
Toral
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| 8 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:47
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Yes, they are bad. You'd want as little as possible. But AI gives you a ton of great stuff too. You'd just have to balance that with the rest of your roster. Generally speaking, point guards handle the ball more and have more turnovers. But, they also generally have the most assists. So you can't kick them out of bed.
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| 9 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:52
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Yes, Mark. My last pick, I think. I had another sheet which showed him one tier ahead of anyone else left. I even checked Rotoworld before I picked him. Apparently this guy isn't even full time!
I drafted 12th, so I have the #1 WW position. I want to hold that, so I'll wait till waivers clear and replace Mark Blount with a free agent.
Mike D pt 3 I'm just going to use Rotoworld, basically. I'll follow RIHC pickups and see if I can learn from that.
And...with a reason to watch BB games again, especially non-Raptor games (why does this Watson guy only make 38% of his shots? Is he spastic? I shot better than that) I may even become a fan again.
Toral
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| 10 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 21:56
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You weren't shooting against the defenders Watson is. (but yeah, he's not a shooter, he's a ball handler/penetrator) Besides Rotoworld, I'd recommend following box scores each night from whatever site you like. Yahoo's scoreboard is pretty good. Playing time is obviously key. Think of it like targets in football for WRs. Or ABs in baseball.
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| 11 | Pacers Rule
Sustainer
ID: 910311210
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 22:07
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Yeah, your draft does look very strong for an 8 cat RIHC league. I'm thinking I wish my team looked that nice. You have some really nice players. I'm not sure I liked the trade, though, TO's involved. You gained 3's but your shooting percentage just took a major hit. Chandler is a monster on boards and blocks, if he stays healthy.
It will be interesting for the fun of it, and who knows, maybe you'll get into it more and become more knowledgable as the season progresses. But it's going to be tough depending on the caliber of your competition.
If you have the time, take some or those free projections and map out your team's and the other teams' projected stats for the year. that will give you an idea of where you rank in each category and what you need to work on or what you can give up in a trade.
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| 12 | Perm Dude
ID: 17946246
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 22:21
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Good advice by PR, Toral. If you're not sure of the players, projection analysis will help weed out those players who may have done well last year (and therefore are high in Yahoo's rankings) but have lost their starting spot, might be hobbling, or battling in training camp.
The reason turnovers aren't often used is because they really don't measure individual abilities. The guys who turn the ball over are the ones that handle the ball most, who (not coincidently) are fantasy stars. Taking a look at last year's top turnover players, you'd be hard pressed to find many of these guys not drafted in the first round.
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| 13 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 22:36
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Nice to see you, pd, and thanx for the advice.
Of course I was terrified of drafting some guy who was out for the season. The only problem I had was with Elton Brand, who hadn't been drafted about 3 rounds after he should have been. I didn't know what was going on but just excluded him from my (live draft) list. I checked after the draft and found out about his injury.
It is actually amazing to me, to see how quickly players disappear from one's lists in BB. I think it's because Hoops has more stats and is easier to judge. It was a live draft. Basically, I would see my top ranked players (from RIHC) disappear one by one. I know this happens generally all the time, but I was amazed at how regular, orderly -- almost stately -- the removal of desired players was here.
When I was comparing TOs and PIMs, I was going to note that you strongly objected to having PiMs as a plus category, and wouldn't have it in your league. A position I respect, if not agree with. I think goons are necessary to protect the Wayne Gretzkys...but I digress.
Toral
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| 14 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 22:52
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Now I have another question for y'all.
Before I joined this roto league, I signed up for an HTH league. 2 in fact.
Now in hockey, HTH leagues are acceptable. When I signed up for hockey HtH leagues on Yahoo!, I got messages saying that the league was ready to draft almost immediately. If you're on G-Mail, the messages will just appear without you having to recheck or refresh.
So I signed up for 2 BB H-t-H leagues. Nothing happened. Every time I got to the computer I would click on "Ready to Draft" and wait to get the G-Mail message saying that the league was going. Nothing. So, having already done my auto-ranking list, I signed up for a Roto league. I got my message saying that the league was ready to go in 15 minutes.
So is H-t-H not considered a serious option in Hoops Fantasy? I'm just learning...I'm guessing that in a sport where 6 out of 8 or 9 categories are counting categories, H-t-H is not considered a serious option because you can churn the bottom quarter of your roster on a daily basis to maximize games played and have great success with that (cough, cough).
Toral
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| 15 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 23:06
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I've never played Hoops H2H. Football is the king of that. Off the ice, at least. But your analysis (urinalysis?) sounds accurate.
It's all about the roto in Hoops, IMHO.
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| 16 | Pacers Rule
Sustainer
ID: 910311210
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 23:34
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Mike D, I'm surprised you have never tried H2H. For as avid a player and fan as you are, it's really an experience you should have. I'd suggest maybe a 5 cat league to start with, and you're probably talking weekly transactions as well. That way, you not only draft as well as you can, you have to size up your opponent for the coming week to determine who on your lineup to start, and who to sit. You don't have to dominate every category relative to all other teams as in roto, you just have to beat your weekly opponent in more categories than he beats you in for the week. So you can blow off one cat if he's known to be dominant there and focus on beating him in the others by carefully selecting your weekly lineup. These leagues are nice because they add a tactical and mano-a-mano element that Roto lacks, and also generally are far less time intensive, esp. on weekly transaction leagues. Yet you still get to watch your stats pour in all week and see if you have chosen wisely.
I'd definitely recommend it at least once for the experience of it. Here's a tip- learn your league's playoff weeks (they will be during the regular season) and be sure to draft players who play heavy schedules during those times, because unless your league figures stats on a per game average basis (unlikely) the schedule will definitely matter. And assuming you qualify for the playoffs in your league, you will want your team to be hitting on all cylinders at that point. Sometimes, just like in the TSN game, you'll have to decide between a stud with 3 games and good player with 4 or 5 games that week. It's just a whole 'nother spin on the fantasy experience that I would highly recommend, esp. for the uninitiated.
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| 17 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 23:39
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Sounds a lot like H2H football really. And weekly transactions---that reminds me of the first year(s) of Smallworld Hoops!
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| 18 | Pacers Rule
Sustainer
ID: 910311210
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 23:51
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Well, I haven't played as much H2H football. I only played it one year, and it was a points based league instead of a categories league (aren't most football leagues points-based?) so you really couldn't ignore some cats and focus on others because in the end they all ended up contributing about equally to your overall score. The REALLY frustrating thing about football was the relative randomness of it. It was all based on one weekly game, and any given receiver could go off for 147 yards and 3 TD's, or have a quiet week with 47 yards and no TD's. Also, injuries were just too prevalent and too influential on the outcome. I like hoops much better because the stats are based on several games, not just one, and because injuries are less likely and potentially less season-wrecking if they do happen. Well, we've all got our preferences, I supposed. My basic thing was don't knock it 'till you've tried it ;-) Kamla is hooked on the H2H format and finds Roto a bore. Personally, I find Roto a giant step up from points based leagues, and H2H is just a bit of a different twist on the category theme.
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| 19 | Pacers Rule
Sustainer
ID: 910311210
Wed, Oct 24, 2007, 23:58
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Smallworld Hoops - I don't think I played it. I played a similar game I guess that was put out by "sandbox". I remember it was a weekly transaction league, and there were weekly price adjustments. It was a salary cap league with only five or six players- but it was kind of strange in the following sense: when you sold your player, you didn't get his market value to re-spend on your cap. Rather the salary you had paid him at signing was all you paid him as long as you kept him, so the key was picking guys that were undervalued at the start of the year and then keeping them. I remember I had taken Brian Grant who had just been traded to Miami and got him for only like 2 million, and by the time I accidentally sold him (I hate dial-up) he was worth maybe 5.5 million - so at that point I had lost my ace in the hole. Despite my urgent pleas, the 'fair' folks at Sandbox would not reinstate him to my team at my original price, even though it was an obvious accidental click to sell when the page was loading too slowly and I couldn't even see the sell icon that I had inadvertently clicked on. Geez, I'm still traumatized by that incident 8 years ago :-)
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| 20 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 00:03
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Lol. Yeah, I can remember Sunday nights making transactions and setting my lineup for the week. It was like cramming for an exam.
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| 21 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Thu, Oct 25, 2007, 09:42
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Tx for all the helpful comments. Rumor was that the Hoops board was a nasty place, but I didn't see it here.
Tx especially to PR. It made me think about the Indiana Pacers. Back in the day I used to like to take them in a sim game (AH B-Ball, crappy game). What I remember them for is that, long after they escaped from the ABA, there was a time where they played .500 B-Ball for like 8 seasons in a row [actually more like 6 when I looked it up]. I was always rooting for Reggie Miller. Checking the history...he eventually propelled them to the finals about 5 years after I stopped following them. Following them was like watching Das Boot -- you knew they were going to get there eventually, but the getting there is a tortuous experience.
Anyway, I'm not surprised that Pacers fans are classy.
Toral
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| 22 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Tue, Nov 13, 2007, 17:09
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Just an update. I'm not planning to ask for help with every transaction or anything but I'll update you from time to time.
1. So far so good. In my roto (main) league, I'm in 1st place, ahead by 10 points. Despite being last in turnovers. No surprise, because I used a cheat list from a no-turnover league. And I may be mismanaging the game cap -- more about this later.
Anyway the standings have me FG% 11 FT% 11 3PT 5 PTS 12 REB 8 AST 12 STL 12 BLK 11 TO 1.
Hmm...I've improved a lot in FG% and FT% just the last few days. Still early.
2. Looking at the raw totals, I have way too may assists. I have 371 and #2 has 249. I looked at teams to see if I could offer a trade that would help the 2 of us in categories, but couldn't find one. However I noticed Earl Watson has lost his job and was dragging me down in FG% anyway so I released him a few days ago and picked up Ronny Turiaf, who I saw touted somewhere. Transactions are going to be hard for me, acting as I am like a blind man trying to describe the elephant. I rely on net sites. I did get to Salmons 1st in my league however so I'm not totally losing in this department. And I still have the #1 waiver position.
I dropped Turiaf for Nate Robinson today on a net tip about Marbury (who I also own) losing his job.
I was actually depending on watching RIHC transactions to guide me, but since Guru's server crashed some time ago recent transactions haven't been listed at the web site :(. What can you expect from me if I have to think for myself?
3. I need to know about game cap management. There's an 82-game limit. I don't know how to manage that. My initial thought is that if I'm putting in my bench players so much so that my GP are more than the average GP by real NBA teams, then I'm headed for trouble. My games used are all between 6 and 9 per position (halving 2-position spots). How do y'all manage that?
Toral
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| 23 | Toral
ID: 575542418
Tue, Nov 13, 2007, 20:19
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butt
Saw the theme of the action thread, and...I picked up Robinson today, and am holding Marbury. Is that a good idea?
[shielding self from angry Hoops experts]
Toral
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| 24 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Nov 13, 2007, 21:36
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Sure, wait and see how it plays out, and one or both could be valuable. GP---on one hand you want quality, but quantity is also key. So play guys when they are healthy and you think they will produce, regardless of the GP. Later in the year you can scale back if need be. Not that many guys play 82 games anyway, so one guy can't handle a slot by himself (typically).
Trade from your strengths---now or later. Post on the league board you have assists to give and see if anyone bites. Also if you have good depth at assists, trade the guy people will want, not the guy you want to trade, and you will get lots more in return.
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| 25 | Mike D
Leader
ID: 041831612
Tue, Nov 13, 2007, 21:37
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That angry comment is bogus. Either that or you know I'm drinking a Troegs Mad Elf Ale right now.
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| 26 | Pacers Rule
Sustainer
ID: 910311210
Wed, Nov 14, 2007, 00:48
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#21, thanks Toral. I hadn't checked this thread in a while so I hadn't seen your follow up. Being a Pacers fan post-brawl has been a pretty brutal experience. Artest was a headcase when he came to Indiana from Chicago, but when Jackson arrived, it all hit the fan. Those two are gone now, but seemingly the aftermath remains. Tinsley is still hitting the saloons (and the female patrons, apparently), and Shawne Williams thinks it's ok to drive without a license while weed is burning in his SUV and his passenger is packing stolen heat.
At least Jim O'Brien is a breath of fresh air for the Pacers, and we'll see if they can pull something together this year in Indiana.
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| 27 | weykool
Leader
ID: 41750315
Wed, Nov 14, 2007, 01:45
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Toral:
Great draft.
Dont like the trade all that much.
I think you gave up far more than you gained.
To monitor your games played there is a link on your team page at the bottom called "maximum games".
Right now you are a game or two ahead in most positions.
Keep in mind there will be injuries and players resting at the end of the season so it is usually best to keep a couple games ahead.
As for trading away your assists I would wait until you feel your lead is secure...then pull the trigger to beef up the cats that you are lagging in.
If you feel you will fall too far behind on those cats then you could make the move now but I would wait as long as possible.
You are middle of the pack on 3's and Rebs so I would wait to solidify my assist lead.
H2H sux.
Every league I have played in there will always be several players who show up once every 3 weeks to set their roster.
So for two weeks there are two teams who win 8-1 (the 1 being TO) and then they pop in to set their roster for you and you battle it out for a 5-4 win.
And just like that you are down 3 games to the leaders.
That great thing about rotisserie is the stats you earn from day 1 count toward the overall championship.
You also avoid the playoff upset when your dominate team decides to rest all your stud players to get ready for the "real" NBA season.
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| 28 | Pacers Rule
Sustainer
ID: 910311210
Wed, Nov 14, 2007, 21:50
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#27 re: H2H
weykool, methinks you risk throwing the baby out with the bathwater when you attribute the baggage of free public leagues to the H2H format. The H2H league I did was a group of guys that did a live draft at my house and it was not like that at all. Your issue is more one of a public versus compadres league.
However, I agree with the part about the resting of the studs during the playoff weeks. That can be a total 'buzzkill' if you get burnt on that. However, often it is possible to set the playoffs a week or two early to help avoid that situation.
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