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0 Subject: RIHC 2010-11: Getting Started

Posted by: Guru
- [330592710] Tue, Sep 21, 2010, 11:08

It’s time to begin organizing the RIHC leagues.

The RIHC managers have all been invited, and all have accepted. My invitation guidelines were to give initial priority to the top 4 RIHC teams, the teams finishing 1-2 in each AAA league, the winner of each AA league (2), and me. Those total 11 teams. To fill the remaining opening, I chose the 3rd place AAA manager with the better relative finish (compared to the top two spots).

Here is the list of the 12 RIHC managers for 2010-11:
Top 4 RIHC: Mike D, Florian, Jason, Tosh
Top 2 AAA1: Skinneej, s R
Top 3 AAA2: Gescom, Goldcoach, Youngroman
Winner of each AA league: Valkyrie, Toral
Me

I expect the draft to take place during the second half of October. For the RIHC, the draft should not require more than about 8 days, so a starting date of October 15 should be about right. Prior to that, we need to consider whether any rules changes are warranted, and also go through the process of selecting our draft order.

We will continue to use the Kafenatid.net “On the Clock software for the draft. I expect to continue to use Yahoo as the hosting site – although I m open to alternatives if there is strong interest.

I will open up a thread for qualifying leagues in a moment. After that, we can begin discussing potential rules changes in this thread.
1Mike D
      ID: 168392020
      Wed, Sep 22, 2010, 19:16
(copied and pasted from the last several years)

Mandatory trading!

;)
2Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Sep 23, 2010, 10:50
Here are the basic rules (copied from prior years):

Roster Positions (12/3/2): PG, SG, G, G, PF, SF, F, F, C, C, Util, Util, BN, BN, BN, DL, DL
Stat Categories (8): FG%, FT%, 3PTM, PTS, REB, AST, ST, BLK
Max games per position: 84
Roster moves: Daily

I figured it would be good to recap the rules regarding the injury slots:
Three bench slots are available to hold any player. Two additional bench slots will be enabled, but are restricted as “injury slots”, hereafter abbreviated as “IS”.

An NBA player shall be eligible to fill an IS if he is listed in any “informed” source as being injured more seriously than “day-to-day”. Examples of acceptable information sources include (but are not limited to):
RotoWire
RotoWorld
RotoTimes
ESPN
NBA.com
Newspaper stories (citing facts, not speculation).

Once a player appears in an NBA game, he is no longer eligible to fill an IS, even if a published source fails to remove his listing. When a player is no longer IS eligible, the team shall have a limited amount of time to remove that player from the IS, as defined below.

If a manager wishes to move a player into an IS but cannot find a confirming source, he may request that the Commissioner approve the designation. The Commissioner shall use his best judgment in making such a determination.

If any manager believes that another team has improperly moved a player into an IS, he may file a protest with the Commissioner. If any manager disagrees with a Commissioner ruling, he may request a league vote. Six votes shall be required to overturn any Commissioner ruling related to an IS.

Each Wednesday, the Commissioner shall review all rosters to assure that any filled injury slots are appropriate. In the event that an IS is improperly filled, the Commissioner will notify the manager of the violation via the email link at the Yahoo site. The notified manager will have 48 hours to correct the roster or to provide a satisfactory explanation. If a breach remains uncorrected 48 hours after notice, the Commissioner shall have the authority to drop a bench player in order to bring the roster into conformance. The player dropped will be based upon the Commissioner’s judgment as to the best interests of the impacted team.

The Commissioner shall have the latitude to extend the time for curing a breach if he knows that the manager is unreachable and/or unavailable to make the adjustment.

No player which is in an IS slot may be placed in a starting slot on any day unless the bench has been cleared of that injury slot, or unless another player is eligible to replace that player in the vacated IS. In the event of a violation, the Commissioner may elect to void any stats generated by improperly activated player.

As before, no player may be picked up as a free agent and immediately placed in an IS. Free agent additions are only IS eligible 10 days after pickup, unless the player has appeared in an NBA game after the pickup and the IS eligibility occurred thereafter.
3Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 10:40
I'm not aware of any potential rules changes. However, I do know that the Injury List requirements created a great deal of discussion last year. Is there a viable way to tighten up the eligibility requirements?
4Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 17:23
One other thing to consider.

In this year's RIFC, we used a "Banzai" format for the draft order. This is the same as the traditional snake draft that we have always used, with one modification - the 3rd round order is reversed. So for a 12 team league, the first four rounds are:

Round 1: 1-12
Round 2: 12-1
Round 3: 12-1
Round 4: 12-1

From that point forward, it is the same as a regular snake draft.

The purpose is to offset the perceived advantage of getting one of the top picks in round 1.

Any interest in this? While kafenatid does not support this directly, it would not be difficult to implement. We'd simply set up six trades at the outset to effectively reverse the third round.
5 Valkyrie
      Dude
      ID: 47042413
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 17:32
I support the 3RR or Bonzai draft format.
The only suggestion I have re the DL is to require that one of the position can only be filled with players officially designated as on the DL by the NBA. The second position would be treated as it was last year. This doesn't eliminate the issues but might cut them in half?
I am not really sure this is necessary but then again I don't have a good feel for how big a problem this was last year.
Generally I think basketball injuries are too nebulous to restrict them solely to official DL designations.
6Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 18:14
Is there an official DL designation?
7Mike D
      ID: 218312417
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 18:31
Therein lies the problem.....
8Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 18:33
We went to this screwy approach because the NBA stopped its DL designation system. If they are going to resume something along those lines, we should take a look at it. But absent that, I think we are left to tinker with our own system.
9Uptown Bombers
      ID: 318502217
      Fri, Sep 24, 2010, 22:34
I'm relegated to AAA this year but wanted to add my two cents anyway. I didn't see it as part of the rule in post 2, but haven't we come to accept missing 5 consecutive games as an automatic qualification for IS, even if the player is still "day to day"?

Perhaps we can remove the entire any “informed” source as being injured more seriously than “day-to-day” and just move directly to a number of consecutive games missed as the only determination for IS eligibility. That would be more clear cut.
10Mike D
      ID: 168392020
      Sat, Sep 25, 2010, 07:31
Good call, but we need to have it as either/or because you shouldn't have to wait 5 games when the sources say someone will be out for a month (fracture etc).
11Great One
      ID: 218412410
      Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 12:26
Same day or next day transactions?
12Florian
      ID: 549221910
      Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 16:41
I like the idea of a modified "Banzai" format for the draft.

Round 1 1-12
Round 2 12-1
Round 3 12-1
Round 4 1-12
Round 5 12-1
Round 6 1-12
etc.

I feel that would easily compensate the people with a late first round pick with early 2nd and 3rd round picks. I could see myself choosing a late 1st round draft pick instead of an early first round pick after our lottery for draft position selection.

13dpr
      ID: 552411820
      Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 19:44
I am only in AAA but I would think that if we reversed the 3rd for football it is even more important in basketball. The top guys are just so much better and there isn't the year to year variance that there is in football. I think going into football everyone could foresee that CJ or AP may fall out of the top 3-5. In basketball, a healthy Durant or Paul is almost guarenteed to give that production.
14weykool
      ID: 138481617
      Mon, Sep 27, 2010, 21:06
My 2 cents on the IR spots.
Remove the two IR spots and add another bench spot.
I commission another league with the same format and the added bench spot and it works very well....zero confusion.
15Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Sep 29, 2010, 08:13
Florian [12] - your proposal is actually referred to as a "3rd round reversal" (3RR). I think the Banzai format is really a modification of 3RR.

GO [11] - we considered switching to same day for baseball, but ended up backing away due to some imposed trading limitations once games start for the day. As I recall, once a player's game has started, he cannot be dropped until the following morning - if he is in your current starting lineup.

I'm willing to reopen the question, however. This constraint may be less of an issue in hoops.

16Mike D
      ID: 348502819
      Wed, Sep 29, 2010, 22:09
I prefer next day, but same day is cool too. It came in handy in G20. The current format is long---2 day that becomes more like 3 IIRC.
17Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 10:41
I’m going to keep the Injury slot rules as we have had them before. We’ve had votes to replace the Injury slots with an extra bench slot, and it has always failed. We may still tweak the injury definition, if that seems warranted.

However, qualifying leagues may decide to go with an extra bench slot instead of the Injury rules, if they wish. Some QLs have elected this option in the past.
18Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 10:49
There are two issues for which I'd like to take a vote.

Question 1: Next day vs. same day player replacements.
A. Added players may not be inserted in the lineup until the next day. (Same rule as for prior seasons.)
B. Players may be added to the starting lineup on the same day they are added.

Question 2: Draft order
A. Traditional Snake
B. Banzai (Same as traditional snake, except the order of the 3rd round is reversed.)
C. Third round snake reversal. (Same as a traditional snake, except that all rounds after the first two are reversed.)

For the second question, please indicate your first and second choice.Only the 12 managers in the RIBC are eligible to vote on these two questions.

19Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 10:56
To clarify, here are the pick orders for each round in the three draft styles:

Round (A) Trad. Snake (B) Banzai (C) 3RR
1 1-12 1-12 1-12
2 12-1 12-1 12-1
3 1-12 12-1 12-1
4 12-1 12-1 1-12
5 1-12 1-12 12-1
6 12-1 12-1 1-12
7 1-12 1-12 12-1
8 12-1 12-1 1-12
9 1-12 1-12 12-1
10 12-1 12-1 1-12
11 1-12 1-12 12-1
12 12-1 12-1 1-12
13 1-12 1-12 12-1
14 12-1 12-1 1-12
15 1-12 1-12 12-1

20Mike D
      ID: 5937410
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 11:37
1. B
2. A, then C
21Florian
      ID: 549221910
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 12:02
1. B
2. C, then A
22 Valkyrie
      ID: 210563113
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 12:30
#1 A
#2 B as in Bonzai
23Goldcoach
      ID: 8933411
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 12:33
1. B

2. C then B
25Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:03
1. A
2. B, then A


26Toral
      ID: 1294825
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:07
1. B

2. B, then C

Changed my vote and deleted original post.
27jason
      ID: 5298716
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 13:41
1. A
2. A, then C
28youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 14:26
1. B, then A
2. C, then A, then B
29Mike D
      ID: 5937410
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 15:20
Geez what a mess!
31Da Bomb
      Donor
      ID: 487112814
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 22:07
Just as an FYI, I was in a league with same day transactions for baseball and once the games started, you were not able to add a player if you wanted to drop a player that was in your starting lineup. You would either need to drop a bench player or wait until after the Yahoo freeze (3am Eastern).
32skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Mon, Oct 04, 2010, 23:42
1. A
2. A then C
33s R
      ID: 31624304
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 02:55
1. A
2. A, C
34Florian
      ID: 549221910
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 12:07
Ten votes in"

1. 5 votes for A, 5 votes for B

2. A - 4 first place votes, 3 second place votes
B - 3 first place votes, 2 second place votes
C - 3 first place votes, 5 second place votes

Unless the last two votes really clear things up proposal B comes down to how to value first and second place votes (or a revote with only two options).

35Gescom
      Dude
      ID: 520461315
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 18:18
1. A
2. A then C

Sorry for delay
36Mike D
      ID: 348502819
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 18:27
That's ok if you vote like that. ;)
37Mike D
      ID: 348502819
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 18:27
Wait....at least #2. Geez, I'm so confused.
38Toral
      ID: 1294825
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 20:12
I, Toral, am going to switch my vote on #1 from B to A, thereby giving A a 7-4 majority and sparing our Commissioner from possibly having to cast the tying vote and casting vote.

(Also I changed my mind.)
39Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Oct 05, 2010, 21:58
We will stick with next day transactions.

For draft sequence, I would have preferred B, with second choice of C.

That leaves 5 for A, 4 for B, and 3 for C.

If I consolidate 1st and 2nd choices, we have 8 A, 5 B, 10 C.

So, I'll throw out option B (since it only got 5 votes for 1st & 2nd choice), and for those people who voted for option B, substitute their 2nd choice. That produces 6 for A, and 5 for C, with one not providing a second choice. At worst, it would be 6-6.

My sense is that while 7 of 12 voted for a change, there is not enough consensus as to what the change should be. As such, we'll keep it simple and use the standard snake draft once again.
40Goldcoach
      ID: 439131016
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 06:43
Well...that's how we all got here in the first place ;)
41Florian
      ID: 549221910
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 09:22
Since we have settled the draft type, can we now start on the draft order?
42Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 12:17
Yes.

I will start with the following list of managers in this order:
Florian
Gescom
Goldcoach
Guru
Jasonprof
Mike D
s R
Skinneej
Toral
Tosh
Valkyrie
youngroman

Next, I will generate a list of random numbers to resequence the list. That reordered list will be the one that is used to select our draft position.

Rather than using two sets of numbers submitted by two different managers, I will generate a list using random.org, and send a copy of the results to several other managers for audit control. I'll post the results shortly.
43Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 12:35
The run is complete. Copies were emailed to Florian, Mike D, and Tosh. (If they don't go through, I also have a pdf file of the output for verification.)

These were the numbers:
10 5 12 3 8 6 1 4 7 11 2 9


Thus, we will select our draft sequence in the following order:

1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Skinneej
5 Gescom
6 Mike D
7 Toral
8 Jasonprof
9 youngroman
10 Florian
11 Tosh
12 Goldcoach

s R, you are up!

44s R
      ID: 2310342414
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 14:32
I'll take the 1st pick.

1 s R
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
45Valkyrie
      Dude
      ID: 47042413
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 14:39
I'll take #2- Would have been an interesting choice with Bonzai or 3RR. As it is- no brainer

1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
46Florian
      ID: 549221910
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 15:22
In retrospect (especially knowing I'm picking my draft position 10th), I'd probably change my vote on draft type to C then B (instead of C then A). In the snake draft picking first just seems like a big advantage. Though I believe nobody picking first or second has won the RIHC in past years.
47Mike D
      ID: 348502819
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 18:05
Knowing my rough draft position might have changed my vote. Not sure. Re-vote? ;)
48Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Oct 06, 2010, 20:27
I'll take #2- Would have been an interesting choice with Bonzai or 3RR. As it is- no brainer

1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12

Would have been different with either of the other formats.
49skinneej
      Leader
      ID: 040625911
      Thu, Oct 07, 2010, 08:59
Sorry, got in late last night and didn't check the thread til now.

1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4
5 Skinneej
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
50Gescom
      Dude
      ID: 520461315
      Thu, Oct 07, 2010, 11:28
1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7
8
9
10
11
12
51Mike D
      ID: 5937410
      Thu, Oct 07, 2010, 17:50
Here. Will choose in a few.
52Mike D
      ID: 348502819
      Thu, Oct 07, 2010, 18:22
1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Mike D
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7
8
9
10
11
12
53Toral
      ID: 1294825
      Thu, Oct 07, 2010, 18:48
1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Mike D
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7 Toral
8
9
10
11
12

Jasonprof is up.
54jason
      ID: 5298716
      Thu, Oct 07, 2010, 19:28
1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Mike D
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7 Toral
8 Jasonprof
9
10
11
12
55youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Fri, Oct 08, 2010, 11:57
sorry for the delay. to make it easy for me:

1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Mike D
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7 Toral
8 Jasonprof
9
10
11
12 youngroman
56Florian
      ID: 549221910
      Fri, Oct 08, 2010, 13:49
1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Mike D
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7 Toral
8 Jasonprof
9 Florian
10
11
12 youngroman
57Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Oct 08, 2010, 14:12
I'll enter the final two ...

1 s R
2 Valkyrie
3 Guru
4 Mike D
5 Skinneej
6 Gescom
7 Toral
8 Jasonprof
9 Florian
10 Tosh
11 Goldcoach
12 youngroman
58Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Oct 09, 2010, 09:41
Skinneej, Valkyrie, and Toral still need to register for the draft at Kafenatid.net

Goldcoach, Valkyrie, and Toral still need to register for the league at Yahoo.

Passwords and registration info was sent out via email several days ago.
59youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Sun, Oct 10, 2010, 16:43
I am out of town until Thursday evening. I don't know how much internet access I will have the next few days. I hope the draft does not start far before Thursday.
60 Goldcoach
      ID: 439131016
      Sun, Oct 10, 2010, 16:57
RE 58

Some how I didn't receive it.
61Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Oct 11, 2010, 10:34
Everyone is now in the Yahoo league.

Still waiting for Skinneej to sign up for the draft at kafenatid.net

Our plan is to start the draft on Friday, Oct 15. I'll probably activate sometime on Thursday, so that people can set up queues on Thursday night, if needed.

Draft will continue through the weekend. With a good pace, we should finish by the following weekend (7-8 days total).

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