| RotoGuru Basketball Forum View the Forum Registry XML Get RSS Feed for this thread | Self-edit this thread |
|
| 0 |
Subject: Why is Lebron hated so much? Posted by: weykool - [343561414] Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 13:34 Playoffs are coming to an end and virtually no chatter. I'm not going to presume to speak for everyone on this but it seems my views are for the most part reflected across America. First of all let me clarify what is not part of the disdain: 1. The fact that he left cleveland. If I were him there is no doubt in my mind I would have left as well. Most people if they are being honest would have done the same. 2. Using the phrase "Taking my talents to South Beach". As a Laker fan I have to be fair when Kobe used the exact same phrase when he announced he was "Going to be taking his talents to the NBA" (skipping college). So why all the hate? #1 It was the way he left. You dont put one a 1 hour show to rub it in the face of Cleveland fans, your former teammates and the Cleveland organization. Even though he did more for Cleveland than Cleveland did for him, he owed them much more than a 1 hour slap in the face and thumbing of his nose. #2 Confidence vs Arrogance It is a very fine line and sometimes comes down to perception. Confidence is something to be admired and praised but arrogance can and will breed resentment and ultimately hatred. While it is a fine line its a line Lebron has crossed with two giant steps. Examples of arrogance: The "rock star" type introduction of the big 3. What were they thinking? They havent won anything and they are acting like they are the best who have ever played the game. The stupid Nike commercial asking "What do you want me to do"? If you dont know what to do then you dont get it and someone telling you will obviously not register in your self-absorbed world. During games all the chest thumping, the puffed out chests, the bottom jaw jutting out, and all the looks of "damn Im good" are presenting a very negative immage unless you are a Miami fan. I have to include Wade in some of this as well. Posing in front of the Maverick bench with your shooting hand held high after you hit a 3-pointer could be THE play that could ultimately lose the series for Miami. | ||||||
| 1 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 13:40 |
Well, I certainly think the way he left Cleveland (particularly by hosting an hourlong show on ESPN to do it, "The Decision") is certainly irking a lot of people. Note: This has nothing to do with the *fact* that he left Cleveland, and everything to do with *how* he left Cleveland. Most people, if they are being honest, would call that dickish behavior. And for a guy who hasn't won a championship, it all sounds a little selfish. | |||||
| 2 | Great One ID: 574139 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 15:13 |
this is the one that makes me hate them... James was not about to hold back when emcee Eric Reid asked if he came to win a championship. "Not one, not two, not three, not four," James said. And he wasn't finished. "Not five, not six, not seven. ..." The crowd roared. | |||||
| 3 | Frick ID: 5310541617 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 16:38 |
It is the arrogance that went along with the way he handled the move to Miami. When Shaq moved to LA, did anyone other than Orlando fans resent him for it? I think most people questioned it because at the time Orlando looked to be putting a great team together with Grant Hill. While Cleveland surrounded LeBron with almost no talent, the way he paired up with Wade and tag-along Bosh put some people off. Sure, he could have gotten a tiny bit more money from another team, but saying he took less money to play for Miami was disingenious at best. LeBron has always said he wanted to be a superstar. I don't think anyone has a problem with that, but by teaming up with Wade and Bosh he didn't act like a superstar. I know it has been said before, but can you see Jordan, Magic or Bird signing with a new team to be a co-leader? They were the leaders of their teams and led them to championships and that is what made them superstars. Not a constant media hype. I think LeBron is one of the best, if not the best players in the league, but he lost some of his luster when he went to Miami. Another way to look at it. Most people resented the two biggest kids who teamed up and bullied everyone else. Instead of keeping each other in check, they were able to run rampant, although Dirk and the Mavs are sure making a run at them. | |||||
| 4 | Da Bomb ID: 405551015 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 16:56 |
I know it has been said before, but can you see Jordan, Magic or Bird signing with a new team to be a co-leader? They didn't need to as they already played on great teams with other top 50 players of all time. LeBron didn't and wasn't getting anything close to that in Cleveland. He put in the effort, leading what was probably one of the worst teams in the league without him to four 50 win seasons and two 60 ones. I highly doubt MJ could have won a championship with any of those Cleveland teams. Everyone needs some help. | |||||
| 5 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 17:07 |
I wouldn't say "no talent"; Cleveland went out of their way to move guys in like Shaq, Antoine Jamison, Mo Williams, Ben Wallace, Wally Z, etc etc. And MJ won his first finals in his 7th season. Those Bulls teams before he came sucked. And they didn't really get over the hump until Phil Jackson came aboard. | |||||
| 6 | Great One ID: 35521016 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 17:52 |
Did Bird, Jordan and Magic all get to play alongside other Hall of Fame caliber players? I just don't get why Lebron wouldn't get any credit for being a leader on a championship team like those guys did. I'm not even talking HOF caliber, I'm talking an even higher level - the Top 50 list -- is Wade a greater all time player than McCale/Parish or Worth/Kareem? who are all on the list.. would Wade even make the list? Bosh sure isn't on that level. I'd argue Bird and Magic had better teams around them. But because it happened via trades and drafting and not free agency its ok? | |||||
| 7 | Da Bomb Donor ID: 487112814 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 19:22 |
I wouldn't say "no talent" Uh, I didn't. Not sure why you're quoting that. I said top 50 players of all time. Unless you consider Wally Szczerbiak in that class (his 7.5 ppg Cleveland years no less). I can't tell. MJ won his first finals in his 7th season. Those Bulls teams before he came sucked. Exactly! MJ didn't win until he got some major help. Pippen > Jamison. | |||||
| 8 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 19:36 |
Not your quote--Frick's While Cleveland surrounded LeBron with almost no talent... | |||||
| 9 | weykool ID: 343561414 Fri, Jun 10, 2011, 20:23 |
I agree with PD. Lebron had decent players when he was in Cleveland. They were not good enough to win championships, but they weren't stiffs either. It always irks me to hear announcers say Lebron makes his teammates better. No he doesnt. Lebron was a ballhog and made his teammates worse. For his first 5 years MJ was a ballhog and made his teammates worse. For the first 5 years Kobe was a ballhog and made his teamates worse. The good news for Lebron is he still has time to elevate his game. MJ was 28 when he won his first title. Kobe won his first at 22, but it wasnt until he was 31 when he was considered the best player on the team. Lebron is only 25. I dont see the difference in going to another team with championship caliber players or having those players come to your team. The NBA is a team game and it takes more than 1 great player to make a championship team. Nobody has ever won it all by themselves. | |||||
| 10 | Tree ID: 41512710 Sat, Jun 11, 2011, 10:21 |
for me, it was simply that the way James left Cleveland, which embodies everything that people find wrong with spoiled, selfish, me-first, professional athletes. until that point, James was, to me, one of the best players in the NBA. i really didn't pay a lot of attention to him otherwise. but then "The Decision" came, and i was like "you've got to be kidding me." Leaving Cleveland is his prerogative - despite his proclamations he would bring a title to his town, it's still his right to leave, and i won't begrudge him that. but leaving how he did was a very public slap in the face of Cleveland, and was there simply to gratify James' insane ego. honestly, i've probably watched him play more in the last couple weeks than i did in the last few years - and i hate his style of play. i think he's too selfish, but at the same time, not confident enough to be "THE MAN". right now, he's at best, the third best player on his team. hell, i'd argue that he might not even be in the top three - Mario Chalmers has been more important to Miami in this series than James has. the greats - the team leaders - the Jordans, the Kobes, the Dirks, the Barkleys, the Duncans have not only made the players around them better, but have also known when it was time to say "give me the damned ball!". James isn't. he might be one day, and while he's damned good, he's not nearly as big as his hype. | |||||
| 11 | dpr ID: 1990714 Sat, Jun 11, 2011, 13:13 |
What I find most interesting about him is that what makes people hate him for the decision, the "me first everything needs to about me" is what is has been the problem in this series in that he has been willing to play facilitator and let wade take over the game. For someone who acted the way that he did in changing teams you would expect his failures to be more like Kobe's, in that when things arent going well you force things too much. he is the opposite. That said I think Lebron's poor play has been overblown. The man lead the team for the series leading up to the finals, making wade an afterthought. He contributed through scoring, defense and in the clutch. Obviously things have been very different in the finals as Lebron has not met the standards that he has set or of the players to which he is compared. Still, outside of Game 4 he has not been that terrible. Still, not what you expect, but certainly not the 4th best player on his team. He has another top5 NBA player on his team so it is possible that given matchups or just how the shots are feeling that Wade should be given the ball and lead the scoring. Now of course, lebron is taking this too far, but when you play with a player as good as Wade, sometimes he is your teams best option. He also has continued to play good defense and passes. he just isnt looking for his shot enough, and when he does he isnt taking the quality of looks you expect from him. Also, going back to lebron Cleveland days, I am not sure how you can say he was a ballhog. He washis entire teams offense yet he always managed to shoot a high percentage. When you are shooting that well (increasing from 47-50% after his rookie year) you should be shooting. He also always managed to have a high number of assists | |||||
| 12 | Seattle Zen Leader ID: 055343019 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 13:39 |
I know this athlete-celebrity that hosted an event that raised over $2.5 million dollars for charities including the Boys and Girls Clubs of America, yet all he garnered for his efforts was undue disdain. "The Decision" generated multi-millions of dollars for charity. Hey, if you are going to trash "The Decision", at least you have to mention how much was given to charity. No one seems to remember that. Should he have left Cleveland? Absolutely. Michael Jordon would have left Chicago if that franchise was owned by Daniel Gibson, an absolute clown with no management skills at all. I'm sure that LeBron would have stayed if he felt that the Cavs had a future that included championship contention, but it was clear after seven years that was not possible, not with Gibson owning the team. Should he have agreed to "The Decision"? In retrospect, no, he should have come up with a different way to raise millions for charity. I think this topic is rather funny considering the all time most self aggrandizing, selfish, lazy superstar in NBA history just retired, Shaq. Where was the hate when he left Orlando? LeBron left to win championships, Shaq left to "make movies". I know who I respect more as a competitor. weykool, I ask you, why all the ignorance? Rock Star introduction. This one cracks me up. This was a Miami Heat event, LeBron is an employee and last time I checked, employees take orders from employers. To hold this event up as an example of LeBron's "arrogance" does one thing, shows the ignorance of the person making the statement. "Not four, not five, not six". Hmm, if I am a Miami Heat fan excited about my team's new players, would I want them to tell me "we are going to take it one game at a time" or make me excited about not just competing for a championship, but striving for a dynasty? If you are the former, I suggest you become a baseball fan where celebrating a home run is frowned upon, I think you probably frown a lot. Hey, I hated Jordan and the Bulls twenty years ago, so I know exactly what this is about. Hatred of great players is emotional, it's not logical. When you try to explain it logically, it's rather hilarious. Examples of this hilarity: LeBron does not make his teammates better. Dirk and Barkley are greats, LeBron is not. As you might have realized, I love LeBron and became a Miami Heat fan in part because of this silly "villan" role so many people created for them. They have been toying with the Mavs, here's to a game seven on Tuesday. | |||||
| 13 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 16:23 |
Should he have agreed to "The Decision"? You mean, should he have suggested "The Decision" to ESPN as the means through which he'd announce his descent into douchebaggery? ESPN would only confirm that active discussions for the special are ongoing. But sources tell Broussard that representatives for James contacted the network, proposing that James makes his announcement during a 9 p.m. ET special. | |||||
| 14 | dpr ID: 1990714 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 16:36 |
I read an article a few months ago which painted it as a long thought out process by James' representatives and Jim Gray. obviously James would have had veto power, but if the thing wasnt by his design and something he was encouraged to do it doesnt make him look as bad. I am pretty sure that I read it initially on yahoo but going back I could only find this on deadspin which seems to be very similar. http://deadspin.com/5803597/the-decision-about-lebrons-decision-was-an-orgy-of-self+interest-with-jim-gray-on-top | |||||
| 15 | Seattle Zen Leader ID: 055343019 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 16:48 |
Perm "agreed to", "proposed", no difference at all. Cleveland fans are projecting. It was his agent's idea, not his. And again, if generating millions of dollars for charity is a "decent into douchbaggery", hand me the scuba gear! Do you really think the people of Cleveland would feel any warmer towards LeBron had he announced via a press release? They have misplaced their anger. | |||||
| 16 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 17:50 |
I'm sure the donation of money to charity excuses much for you Zen, but "The Decision" looked like a rich kid throwing a birthday party for himself, while announcing that the presents would be donated to an orphanage. Cleveland's anger is rightfully placed on the target of a guy who decided to spurn them publicly. | |||||
| 17 | weykool ID: 235231222 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 23:23 |
Cleveland fan were going to be upset no matter how he left. Outside of Cleveland the consensus seems to be the dickish way it was done. To be fair to James he has been a long time supporter of the Boys and Girls Club, but using the Boys and Girls Club was an afterthought and only adds to the douchbaggery. Is there a better contrast than Dirk and Lebron? Winning with class.....well done Dirk. | |||||
| 18 | Farn Leader ID: 451044109 Sun, Jun 12, 2011, 23:51 |
LeBron is an employee and last time I checked, employees take orders from employers. Hahahaha. That's funny. I hope you aren't being serious with this comment. But if by some chance you are, I would bet my house that Wade and Lebron could have nixed that entire celebration of contract signings. Those 2 have a ton of power with that franchise. So please don't pretend that they are meager employees along the lines of a janitor or video man. | |||||
| 19 | Seattle Zen Leader ID: 055343019 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 00:26 |
Really, Farn? You believe that the players choreograph events like that, or have veto power? What gives you that idea? Sounds a little like you are talking out of your ass. Let the haters rejoice! | |||||
| 20 | weykool ID: 235231222 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 00:55 |
Lebron: I dont think we should go out there and act like a bunch of egotistical A-holes. Heat Management: We paid a lot of money to buy you and your inflated ego now get out there and act like the egotistical douchbag we expect you to be. Lebron: Fine, I'll do it but I dont like it. | |||||
| 21 | Great One ID: 3447277 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 09:03 | “All the people that were rooting me on to fail, at the end of the day they have to wake up tomorrow and have the same life they had before,” LeBron said. “They have the same personal problems they had to today. I’m going to continue to live the way I want to live and continue to do the things that I want with me and my family and be happy with that.” | |||||
| 22 | weykool ID: 343561414 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 13:50 |
GO: Dont blame Lebron, Im sure Miami Management made him say that. (/sarcasm) Word of advice to Lebron regarding holes: Rule #1: When you are in a hole, stop digging. | |||||
| 23 | C1-NRB ID: 564251210 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 13:53 |
"Not one, not two, not three, not four," James said. And he wasn't finished. "Not five, not six, not seven. ..." So far, so good. | |||||
| 24 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 14:05 | haha. Good one. | |||||
| 25 | Great One ID: 574139 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 14:18 |
I'll translate what Lebron said... "all those that don't like me can go back to their pathetic little lives... I'm rich and famous so I don't really give a crap" | |||||
| 26 | Great One ID: 574139 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 14:24 | a caller on Philly radio this morning had a good one... he said something like "I'll go back to my crappy little life... and I'll look in my trophy case... and I'll see the same number of championships as Lebron" | |||||
| 27 | Tree ID: 60121615 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 14:44 |
my response to Lebron, which i posted on facebook, was as follows: Dear Lebron - my life isn't the same. i get to celebrate a championship with the team i've followed since i was a child, since their very first game. you get to go home and be a pompous arrogant man who also happens to be a choke artist who can't win a championship. | |||||
| 28 | Farn Leader ID: 451044109 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 19:53 | SZ, I don't even know how to respond to your comments. Definitely not a hater. But I do realize how much power those 2 wield. Had they wanted their "press conference" to have class they could have gotten it that way. Please don't pretend those 2 wield more power than the public relations guy who thought of the idea. | |||||
| 29 | weykool ID: 343561414 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 20:43 |
Whats the difference between the Pope and Lebron? The Pope expects you to kiss his ring, since Lebron doesnt have one he expects you to kiss his ass. | |||||
| 30 | Peter N. ID: 265181321 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 22:18 | Anyone that is a serious fan of Lebron James doesn't care about sportsmanship or class. Plain and simple. Give credit to the Mavs for showing how a team working together can pull off a championship. Its been a long time coming! Vindication | |||||
| 31 | Building 7 Leader ID: 171572711 Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 22:41 |
I don't hate Lebron. And I'm a Cavs fan. I think Miami had a great season. I thought/bet Boston would go to the finals. And Miami got by Chicago and Orlando, too. They lost in the finals. 28 teams did not even get there. Most of them would be wetting their pants if they did get there. And their fans would, too. Nobody forced you to watch "The Decision". Don't whine that you didn't like it. It's your own fault. Cavs 2011 19-63 2nd worst record Cavs 2010 61-21 Best record I think the Cavs basically had the same team except for Lebron. I think that is the worst dropoff in NBA history. He just needs to work on a mid-range jumper, and he'll be fine. Congratulations to the Dallas Mavericks. | |||||
| 32 | Tree ID: 41512710 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 09:59 |
Nobody forced you to watch "The Decision". Don't whine that you didn't like it. It's your own fault. i didn't watch the decision. not one second of it, save for the endless replays of Chris Bosh and the two Oscar contenders for Best Actor in a Playoff Series. i can still dislike it. the concept, the premise, the whole point of it. Simply put, Lebron put himself on a pedestal, above a team, above a league, above an entire city. claiming that LeBron had nothing to do with "The Decision" is fool hardy. it's fairly well-known that Maverick Carter, the very much now ironically named business manager and childhood friend of Lebron's - suggested the program to the networks. If Lebron had left Cleveland for greener pastures the way every other free agent before and since have - by simply signing a contract - the people of Cleveland would have been heartbroken, and they would have hated Lebron for going back on his word. but it likely would have ended there. instead, Lebron made a spectacle of himself, and continues to do so. hooray for his millions of dollars. hooray for whatever money his god-given skills have brought him. but as a man, his public persona belies a very weak, small individual. and his comments show what a petty, immature individual he is. and one who has less NBA Championships than Brian Cardinal and Ian Mahinmi. | |||||
| 33 | Great One ID: 574139 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 10:33 |
Anyone that is a serious fan of Lebron James doesn't care about sportsmanship or class. Plain and simple Apparently Lebron walked off and didn't congratulate any Mavs either. I think Wade/Bosh stayed out and shook some hands. | |||||
| 34 | Da Bomb ID: 405551015 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 11:01 |
There must be something else going on to explain his numerous playoff disappearing acts. He is not as mentally strong as he needs to be. To be fair though, he has probably been given more criticism and hatred than any athlete in history. Not sure if any normal person could go through this in stride, but Lebron is (and has put himself) in an abnormal situation and he needs to figure it out. It's still early in his career and he has time to get better and win championships. Wouldn't surprise me at all to see the Heat win it all relatively easily next year. | |||||
| 35 | Great One ID: 574139 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 11:25 | Not sure if this has gone national yet, but yesterday in Philly Stephen A Smith said there is something major going on in Lebron's personal life the last 2 weeks and anybody would be similarly upset and distracted by it. But he couldn't expand further on it. | |||||
| 36 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 11:27 | Misplaced his bookie's number? | |||||
| 37 | Da Bomb ID: 405551015 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 11:31 | There were rumors last year of Delonte West sleeping with Lebron's mother and and now Rashard Lewis with his girlfriend. | |||||
| 38 | weykool ID: 343561414 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 12:31 | Perhaps his agent called and informed him he lost the part for Shazam II? | |||||
| 39 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 18:28 |
| |||||
| 40 | weykool ID: 343561414 Tue, Jun 14, 2011, 19:37 |
Lebron should have stayed in Ohio and just bought a ring from Terrelle Pryor. Seen on a T-shirt. Lebron, How's my Dirk taste? | |||||
| 41 | Tree ID: 41512710 Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 10:17 |
Seen on a T-shirt. Lebron, How's my Dirk taste? not just any t-shirt, but a t-shirt worn by Maverick DeShawn Stevenson.  Stevenson and sweet baby James have a rivarly going back several years, when the Cavs kept beating the Wizards in the playoffs. Stevenson got his championship ring first. guess that's that. | |||||
| 42 | Seattle Zen Leader ID: 055343019 Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 11:14 |
And there was much rejoicing. That T-shirt is just perfect for this thread, where everyone goes on and on about how classy the Mavs are. | |||||
| 43 | Tree ID: 85541516 Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 17:54 | To compare the levels of class between the Mavericks and the heat, based on one T shirt, is to not have paid much attention to the championship series at all. | |||||
| 44 | Athletics Guy ID: 05231519 Wed, Jun 15, 2011, 20:23 |
Lebron's heel turn: link | |||||
| 45 | twolves ID: 285251711 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 12:25 | I think Dirk winning a title with maybe less surrounding cast then Lebron had in Cleveland makes for more fodder about the "decision" and perception of multiple all stars needed. Lebron and his group may still win a few championships in the future but Lebron may not be perceived in the way of other great players in the past have been because of the "decision". | |||||
| 46 | DWetzel ID: 31111810 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 13:31 |
Wait, did you just say Dallas excluding Dirk is worse than Cleveland excluding Lebron? I just want to make sure I read that right. | |||||
| 47 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 13:42 | I think he meant when Lebron was there. Take away Lebron from that team vs taking away Dirk from this year's Mavs. | |||||
| 48 | dpr ID: 425361717 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 18:36 | Yea I think that is a pretty bold claim. This year we saw the results of the Lebron-less Cavs. The Mavs won the clincher for the title effectively without Dirks help. | |||||
| 49 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 20:23 |
This year we saw the result of Lebron, Shaq, D. West, and Z-less Cavs. Take away 3-4 starters (including Dirk) from the Mavs and you would have the 2010-2011 Cavaliers. | |||||
| 50 | DWetzel ID: 31111810 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 21:56 |
Take away Lebron from that team vs taking away Dirk from this year's Mavs. Right. I'm still pretty sure that's a provably incorrect statement. Last year's Cleveland team starters: Mo Williams JJ Hickson Anthony Parker and either the shattered husk of Shaq or the shattered husk of Antawn Jamison vs. this year's Dallas starters: Jason Kidd Tyson Chandler Caron Butler/Deshawn Stevenson and take your pick for the fifth guy (Marion/Terry/Stojakovic/Beaubois, whoever wasn't injured at the time). They had Jason Terry and Shawn Marion coming off the bench most of the year. It's arguable that Jason Terry and Shawn Marion would have been the second and third best players on Cleveland. Dallas excluding Dirk goes about .700 against Cleveland without Lebron. | |||||
| 51 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 23:10 |
Dallas excluding Dirk goes about .700 against Cleveland without Lebron. Which, of course, wasn't the point I was making. Take away two other starters of each (let's say Mo/Hickson and Kidd/Chandler to go little/big). You think that the thus-decimated teams would be in the Mavs favor 70% of the time? I think you are high. I like the Mavs; I always have. But what happened to the Cavaliers was much more wholesale than just the NBA's MVP leaving. They lost three starters plus two solid role players. | |||||
| 52 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 23:11 |
Which is, BTW, why it'll take them some time to get back, despite all the #1 picks that they have coming (and this year's draft will be somewhat poor anyway). They should have spent some of that money they were saving for Lebron to get another star in. | |||||
| 53 | Perm Dude ID: 5510572522 Fri, Jun 17, 2011, 23:28 | In fairness I should point out that the Mavs won both games against Cleveland last year--by 9 in Cleveland and by 3 in Dallas. | |||||
| 54 | DWetzel ID: 31111810 Sat, Jun 18, 2011, 09:40 |
Well, what "surrounding cast" are we talking about in Cleveland, then? The question wasn't "surrounding cast, if you take away two essential parts of that surrounding cast". And, while you've reduced some of the advantage in your scenario, you are then leaving Shawn Marion and Jason Terry as the clear two best players on the court. .700 is an exaggeration at that point, but if they played an 82 game schedule with whatever was left of both teams, I'd bet my house that Dallas would win more than 45 of them. | |||||
| 55 | DWetzel ID: 31111810 Sat, Jun 18, 2011, 10:02 | I'd also point out that you removed a Hall of Famer that (while not at his peak) is still playing quite well and a well above league average seven footer from one side's supporting cast, and removed a, um, non Hall of Famer (I'm trying to be kind to Mo Williams here) and a below league average 6'9" guy from the respective supporting casts of Dallas 2011 and Cleveland 2010. That's not exactly equal. | |||||
| 56 | Building 7 Leader ID: 171572711 Sun, Jun 19, 2011, 12:47 | The Demonization of Lebron James by Forbes | |||||
| Rate this thread: | If you wish, you may rate this thread on scale of 1-5. Ratings should indicate how valuable or interesting you believe this thread would be to other users of this forum. A '5' means that this thread is a 'must read'. A '1' means that this is a complete waste of time. If you have previously rated this thread, rating it again will delete your previous rating. If you do not want to rate this thread, but want to see how others have rated it, then click the button without entering a rating, or else click here. | ||||||
| |||||||
Post a reply to this message: | |||||||