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Subject: ESB: Hoops Products for TSN
Posted by: Erik B.
- [48830517] Wed, Sep 19, 16:59
Gang:
I wanted to get your thoughts on packages that I’m considering for hoops, so here goes:
“Starting Five” Hoops
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Price: Free
Players: 5 (1 C, 2 F, 2G)
Starting Cap: $25 Million
Price Updates: Weekly
Trade: 2/Week
Prizes: Under $5k
“Premium” Hoops
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Price: $11.95 for 1 / $17.95 for 2 / (2 Free Teams for new TSN subscribers)
Players: (2 C, 4 F, 4 G, 2 Swing)
Starting Cap: $50 million
Price Updates: Daily
Trades: 4/Week
Prizes: Over $5k/Divisional Prizes
Other Features: Future Discounts On Games
Leaders Mentioned in TSN
Members contribute to daily newsletter (if they want)
Here's what I'm thinking with this particular experiment:
* Casual fans have asked us for a fantasy game that’s easier and less involving.
* Hard-core users would prefer intense competition, more prizes and more of a community (one of the major reasons Bernie and I have been on the boards).
* BUT, we don't want to price out our loyal users, and charging $9-12/team is hopefully not prohibitive (at least compared to ESPN's $29.95/per).
I know, I know – I can hear the grumbling from some of you. We don’t want to anger our loyal customers by over-charging them for products, but at this point we also feel that our salary cap game is the best on the net, and that we don’t want to differentiate our products by making rules that become too obtuse. Finally, for simpletons like me, I feel the current game is TOO advanced, and I would actually prefer a more basic, less involving game.
So, when you think about it, does this seem FAIR? Given these options, what would you do?
Really, I want to combine what you guys want with what gives us a chance at succeeding as a long-term business. Thoughts?
-ESB
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| 59 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Fri, Sep 21, 14:04
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Species:
Your post is interesting and true in many respects. So let me hit the spots with which I have major disagreements:
1) We DO care about the SW customer. Most of the people who have been on this board have played our games for several years. WE DON'T WANT YOU TURNING YOUR BACKS ON US.
2) On the GET USED TO IT point -- this is very unresolved. We'd love to offer great deals (free games often) for TSN subscribers, but this is a work in progress, and won't be settled until baseball season. Also, we're not sure that every game or even all games will be pay games, but in this market, it's our obligation to get subscription revenue (if you check magazines out, they're doing the same thing: fewer ads, higher prices).
3) On whether we're being reasonable -- look, gang, we make a killer hoops game (as may of you have said). We think that paying less than $.07 to get access to this game isn't totally unreasonable, and we know that many of you would rather pony up for this game than to have us go out of business OR to play a bad free game.
4) On how sucky the STARTING FIVE game will be -- this is one area where our Rotoguru sampling distorts the facts. You guys might think it's a bad game because you love complications. But I personally want a game that's both strategic and easy to play on a weekly basis, and we think that many TSN subscribers and SW subscribers will feel the same way. We also think this game will force people to understand basketball better -- instead of making money and putting together a dream team, you'll need to really predict who will play above expectations on a weekly basis.
What else? No, we don't have a 1-800 number, but if you call in (I'll get a number), we can take your order directly. Email me as we get closer to the start of the season if you want to do this.
Keep your thoughts coming, gang,
-ESB
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| 60 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Fri, Sep 21, 14:11
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DR Stars:
The pay game will have no ads, and no pop-ups. BUT, that can't be the only point of differentiation, along with prizes. We think that people want a more "serious" pay game and a lighter free game. Your other ideas are good. Y'all have convinced me that we should have 10 players, two flex positions, and four trades.
-ESB
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| 61 | mIST
ID: 168502114
Fri, Sep 21, 14:50
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please, don't do it...your traditional 10 playeRs game is the best FREE fantasy game around...deleting it would sound to me just like hitting youR balls with a hammeR and coming here asking "do you like us doing this"? "Should we hit with moRe force?" i just want to play that, i don't want any 5 or 12 playeRs cRappy new game.
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| 62 | TigerFan
ID: 45631812
Fri, Sep 21, 15:02
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You get what you pay for, I'm more than willing to pay for the best game on the web. I'd rather spend $12 each season, ensuring game lasts. I doubt anyone here would work for free, why should we expect Erik and TSN to do the same.
I think 10 players, 2 of them flexible positions, plus 4 trades each week would be the most interesting set-up.
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| 63 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Fri, Sep 21, 15:25
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Thinking medium term for a way to encourage people to enter the pay league and be able to keep the free league too, I'd suggest the following.
Come up with a elite league, that'll be open next season with the top 1000 players of this year that enter the pay league, they'll each get a free team for that elite league, and a chance to buy (pay for) a second team. Have better prices for the elite than the normal pay, and no prices for the free game. Maybe the top free managers get free teams in the pay game.
this way even if you don't have the money, if you're really good, you could be playing the elite game in two years.
What will this do (hopefully)? IMHO.
Players who consider themselves really good will take the challenge in the pay game in order to enter the elite game next year (recognition, not only prizes which can't be shipped outside the US). Those who are not willing to pay because they think they don't have what it takes to get prizes will then be competing with 'lesser' rivals (like me, I hope I'm not offending anyone with these comments) in the free game.
Then the top 50% of the elite automatically get a spot for the following year and we get the new top 1000 from the pay game... something like that.
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| 64 | Species
Donor
ID: 304521510
Fri, Sep 21, 15:40
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Erik - I'm not sure we necessarily disagree on anything.
My main point was to open everyone's eyes here as to what TSN is trying to accomplish....that it is much broader than just the former Smallworld universe. I didn't mean to imply that you were turning your back on the SW customer, but I'm sure we both agree that the basic point of intermingling the existing TSN client base (both subscriber and web-based) into the game is a key component of your future success. Further, that you HAVE to expect great losses of players by lowering the complexity of your free game and turning your former free game into a pay game, given the fact that SW pay games have failed miserably.
Perhaps I made the error of reading too much into everyone's comments of "I'm not going to pay for something I used to get for free", but you have to face facts that the SW pay games fell flat on their faces. Exactly how much of that failure was due to the lack of differentiation between the games (20%?? 30%??), or people's lack of willingness to pay for something they used to get for free (70+% of the blame?) is the gamble you are taking.
Your point about the value being provided is a good one -- for $.07 a day that seems like good value to me. But unfortunately consumers do in fact have issue with paying for something they didn't have to before. You feel as if it was your right----which isn't true----and Fantasy Basketball be damned if you're going to fork over real money for it when you didn't have to before. Nine freakin' bucks for a 90 minute movie? Well, we're used to shelling out some dough for that so we'll keep paying. $11.95 for a basketball game I never spent a dime for? Next website, please! With something with as short of an attention span as the internet, it's tough to keep the site sticky in this situation....I don't envy your job.
Erik - I would be amazed if you brought in 20% of the existing SW customers into your pay game. If you do, send me a TSN hat and I'll eat it for dinner.
I agree that Rotoguru sampling of the structure of your Starting Five concept is distorted, but you have to admit that it is a letdown compared to the game we've been playing for years. "Gurupie" or no Gurupie, I think many SW players would find it a disappointing replacement.
Let me close by saying that I want you to succeed. Please don't take my 'big picture' point of view as necessarily critical or negative. I tend to be blunt in my feedback (gasp!) because overly supportive kiss-ass comments don't help the cause. I am already very encouraged by TSN's management of the games as well as you and Bernie's participation on these boards. I only emplore you to be honest and learn from the 'customer service' failures of your SW predecessor here, Don Mathis.
Good luck.
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| 65 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 3074280
Fri, Sep 21, 15:51
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Just a suggestion, I'm 18 now but before I was 18 and now still, I had a debt card, I know most of my friends have them too.
I doubt it would be that hard for TSN to setup a way to pay for these games by debt, through Paypal or their own service.
Also it's not that hard to walk into a bank and get a money order, not sure if TSN does except those, Erik?.
Another option is to making a page and try to explain to parents how safe these transactions are etc.
Kids under 18 can find ways around anything they want to, it's more of a question that they don't want to pay the money, and are using the being under 18 as an excuse.
About there being no incentive to pay if you cant win? Simply enter one of your parents names, as I have for the past few years.
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| 66 | The Bandwagon
ID: 148381715
Fri, Sep 21, 15:52
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What a sad day to be a loyal SW/TSN fan! Time for my friends and I to find another free game to play.
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| 67 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Fri, Sep 21, 15:59
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Before I leave for the weekend, I had to say that the 5 player free game sounds to me like a bad idea, I know I won't play that one. And I hope we have the free 10-man-roster hoops game.
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| 68 | TigerFan
ID: 45631812
Fri, Sep 21, 16:06
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Bandwagon, how can you consider yourself a "loyal fan" if your not willing to pay to keep the company going. A loyal subscriber to Sports Illustrated is someone who has had a subscription for years, not someone who reads it at the library each week.
What are you doing tonight (movie, dinner, etc.) I bet you spend more than $12. Stay home tonight and you get 5 or 6 months of excitement from TSN.
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| 69 | TigerFan
ID: 45631812
Fri, Sep 21, 16:08
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PS- good luck finding a free game that's worth your time. Even Yahoo is at the beginning stages of pay to play. Whatever game it is it won't be as good as SW/TSN.
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| 70 | Species
Donor
ID: 304521510
Fri, Sep 21, 16:15
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I agree with TigerFan . Bandwagon, you have five thousand reasons to continue to play the SW/TSN games!!! Don't give us this BS! lol
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| 71 | The Bandwagon
ID: 148381715
Fri, Sep 21, 16:15
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Hey Tiger Fan, read all my posts before you diss me!
Oh yea, while you're at it, go check out the Rotoguru Hall of Fame.
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| 72 | blue hen, almighty
Leader
ID: 34937217
Fri, Sep 21, 16:15
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I've been goaded into responding to post 40. As background, I have played just about every free Smallword game for the last 4 years, and every ESPN game (free or pay) for over a year.
I have a problem with a rep from any company saying their product is "better" than that of another company and capitalizing it, especially without prefacing with "many people think" or "we think" or "we think you will think" before saying it.
In addition to their $29.95 roto games, ESPN also offers secondary games, based on salary caps. One of these is Baseball Challenge. As someone who has played both Smallworld Baseball and Baseball Challenge, I will agree with you: Smallworld Baseball is "better" than Baseball Challenge. The rosters sizes are better, the limited trades make the game interesting, and the scoring system is superior.
There's a major difference between ESPN Fantasy Baseball (FLB) and Baseball Challenge. FLB costs $29.95 per team to play (without the Insider discount or three-pack discount), and Baseball Challenge is free. There's that word again. In a similar manner to the Starting Five free game, ESPN has always had interesting free games along with their pay games.
While I feel that the former Smallworld (remember when it was run in part by CNNSI.com?) game, in my opinion, is the best salary cap sports concept around, I have a hard time buying into the idea that TSN's game is "better" than ESPN's.
That said, I think charging for the TSN Smallworld game is entirely justified, if it can build the customer base. Smallworld players don't have a "right" to a free salary cap game, and TSN does indeed have a "right" to charge if people will pay to play. I, personally, probably will not, but, as Guru said above, this forum probably isn't the best litmus test.
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| 73 | Species
Donor
ID: 304521510
Fri, Sep 21, 16:20
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bh - you dumbass. Smallworld co-branded that game with CNNSI. They simply sold their platform and support to CNNSI for the year and they ran separate scoring in the CNN and SW versions of the game.
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| 74 | The Bandwagon
ID: 148381715
Fri, Sep 21, 16:21
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6000 reasons Species :)
PS Nice resume ;)
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| 75 | Twarpy
Leader
ID: 3074280
Fri, Sep 21, 16:27
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Species, almighty?;)
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| 76 | blue hen, almighty
Leader
ID: 34937217
Fri, Sep 21, 16:28
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Species...
"run in part by"
Hmm. Obviously Smallworld felt they couldn't their game without CNNSI's help.
And if that's all you got out of my post, I think you missed something.
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| 77 | clach
ID: 14428817
Fri, Sep 21, 17:27
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Dr Stars give a good idea for minors and internationals (if you're interested in..), at least for this year.
Give a free access to the paying game for those who finished in top 1.000 is an excellent form to respect who prove his ability.
We can't be eligible for prizes, but we make the competition stronger. And if we stay in the elite we can still play the game free.
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| 78 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Fri, Sep 21, 17:44
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Blue Hen:
Sorry -- my hyperbole got the better of me. How about if I just say, I like our games???
An idea for minors and internationals (taken in part from the ideas above) -- what if (and I'm not sure this is possible), if you ended in a prize position, you'd get the opportunity to play another premium game for free???
-ESB
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| 79 | Special K
ID: 338232120
Fri, Sep 21, 20:40
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I respect all that's been said by Erik and by the rest of the gurupies around here.
Personally, I just started playing Fantasy Hoops last season, and I had the most fun. It was a great experience. The only problem was, we had 10 people in our division, and at the end of the season, only 5 were still competing.
Now, I have rallied some new friends of mine who are very intrigued, and are willing to play Fantasy Hoops with me and my other friends. In the event that TSN charges a fee to play their 10/4 game, it will undoubtedly turn my friends off from playing at all.
I could pay to play, but I don't believe I am good enough to make the top 100/500. And, I would probably be the only one out of my friends who would do this. So i'd basically be playing by myself and that's not a lot of fun unless you have friendly competition with friends.
I do hope you keep the free game as is. If not, then I guess I won't be playing fantasy games after football season ends. :\
-Kurupt
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| 80 | Species
Donor
ID: 7724916
Fri, Sep 21, 23:44
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blue hen - you're just flat out wrong. It was all SW's platform...EVERYTHING was the same except it had CNN/Si branding all over it (with the aforementioned seperate WWR). SW was able to sell the game to CNN/Si and run it for them.
How do I know? Because any customer service needs were handled by SW for the whole game. All it had was CNN/Si's name on it, as well as CNN/Si's prize of going to ATL and waiving into the camera.
Of course I got more out of your post than that.....I just wouldn't miss an opportunity to call you a dumbass.
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| 81 | clach
ID: 14428817
Sat, Sep 22, 06:53
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Erik B, the idea is that one.
If minor and internationals (taken in part of Dr Stars suggestion) ended in a prize position, they'd get the opportunity to play another premium game for free.
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| 82 | blue hen, almighty
Leader
ID: 27048221
Sat, Sep 22, 07:02
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Species, it's a good thing I like you. Because if I didn't... I'd probably hate you. You may be right about the CNN thing, but the main thing is that it doesn't matter one bit.
I've been thinking about the pay games... and the truth is, I bet less than 3% of players play for the prizes. Even if they played the baseball pay game, it was more for the thrill of supposedly better competition. If I were running TSN (wouldn't that be great?), I'd charge for the Smallworld game we all know and love, and I'd make a whole bunch of really cool games that were free. If people played the other games, enough would play the pay game to keep the business afloat.
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| 83 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 4016286
Sat, Sep 22, 11:26
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well, but if i can't get the prizes why must i pay for playing?? there are a lot of other games for free and i think that all europeans or not americans in general will move to theese other games. I think smallworld's ones are better but you can't ask us to pay (even if it's not a great cost) for playin' and then don't make us elegible to receive prizes. Why can't you make games in the same way of the nfl's????
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| 84 | jedman
Sustainer
ID: 2702357
Sat, Sep 22, 11:51
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My feeling is if you like the product and get enjoyment, you pay for it. If you like the movies, you pay to get in, if you don't, you stay away and spend your money on something else. I guess I just don't understand the mind-set that it should be free forever. I usually only have 2-3 teams anyway, so I'd probably sign up for the 2 and be happy. I get a lot of enjoyment from this and to me the costs they are talking about are minimal.
Have you considered some sort of package deals, ie. $35-50 gets you a subscription and the ability to play any and all games for the year, 2 teams in each game?
I like the idea of letting those who aren't eligible for prizes get to play for free for a period of time, at least they have something to play for if they want.
I also like the idea of 10 players, 3 F, 3G, 2C, 2 Wild Cards. Keep everything else the same.
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| 85 | Knightmare
ID: 562452315
Sat, Sep 22, 18:05
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I think reading all of these posts has changed my mind. I was always taught not to spend money on things that I didn't need to. Then I realized how much fun I have playing SW/TSN games and whatever the price it would probably be a worthwhile investment. Also I am 18 now and eligible for prizes, if I'm lucky enough. Besides I have been anticipating Basketball season for far too long to not be able to play (I've already tenatively planned my lineup). Last season I finished hoops around 2000, and this year in MS baseball (Thanks to Rotoguru) I reached the top 200. I think the suggestions made are good ones 3g, 3f, 2c, and 2 flex positions sound good to me. Some people seem rather opposed to the idea of buying trades. I always used to think it would be a good idea, but that was when I used everyone of my trades on the first day. I don't think I would need to use it, but it would be a good feature in case of an injury, and you were without trades. By the way, does anyone here have a division that I can join?, I had a hard enough time trying to get my friends to play when the game was free, besides they usually quit after a month anyway.
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| 86 | Julo
ID: 259112023
Sat, Sep 22, 18:42
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what ever happenned to that "click the pig" a couple years back?
I'm sure that generated tons of moulas... they must of made more than 12 bucks on me that year from all the clicks
plus it was fun clicking the pig
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| 87 | The Dienasty
ID: 2783842
Sun, Sep 23, 08:19
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Julo, back in the day that pig may have generated some cash, but in this day & age of internet marketing and revenues i doubt it will have the same impact as i did 2 years ago.
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| 88 | sarge33rd
ID: 48820225
Sun, Sep 23, 11:40
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for all of those who say.." there are plenty of other free games out there. I'll just go play one of those...":
wake-up call: There won't be in the very near future. I've explored at LENGTH, the viability of initiating a fantasy sports site, and have only recently concluded that my pockets are incredibly too shallow to make it work. The cost to set-up and maintain, redundant net servers is staggering. Then you can add the cost for programmers/system analysts and engineers. These guys dont make 65k+ yr, because their skills are limited in the market place. An employer gets what they pat for in the way of workers, just as consumers get what we pay for when we buy a commodity. Simple truth...I had originally estimated a start-up cost of 60-75k. Upon further study, I've revised that figure (to include 1st yr salaries, multiple physical locales for servers and redundancy in the servers themselves.) to 200-275k. When anybody, company or individual, forks out 200+ thousand of their dollars, they are ENTITLED to charge for their product so as to generate a return on their investment.
As was stated earlier: GET USED TO IT...because quite simply, this is the way the enitre arena is going to go, or like all those dot-coms that went bust in the recent past, so too will the free fantasy game sites.
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| 89 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Mon, Sep 24, 11:31
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To the internationals:
I'm investigating (as I posted above) the possibility of extending game credits for those who should earn prizes, but live abroad. This seems to be a definite possibility. So, if we did something like, win your division and get a free play and finish in the top 25 and you'll get a year's pass to all our games, would that satisfy you?
-ESB
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| 90 | clach
ID: 14428817
Mon, Sep 24, 16:14
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yes, good solution Erik B
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| 91 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Tue, Sep 25, 09:46
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Erik B. (Is there an english word for people with the same names? in spanish is Tocayo the case here is me and Erik B, although my name is written E-r-i-c, not k)
Back to the topic:
I think winning the division is not the solution, because personally, I'd like to enter one of the Guru's divisions, or SWO, or the belly, but if I have to win it to get credit that would make my decision to enter a tough competitive division harder. In the other hand if WWR is the measuring stick everybody (no matter what division you're in can get the price).
Say something like this:
Top 50, 6 free teams in any league (2 hoops, 2 baseball, 1 football, 1 hoops playoffs, or anyway you want to do it)
Top 100, 5 teams
Top 500, 4 teams
Top 1000, 3 teams
Top 2000, 2 teams
Top 5000, 1 team
Then you also need restrictions, say I have a top 500 in hoops, and then a Top 1000 in baseball, that'll be 4+3 teams, you could place a cap in say 6 teams at any given time, if you're commited enough to keep that many teams at any year, you should pay for the privilege.
Another way to do it, is to set up a special ranking for those of us competing for these prizes, and keep the number lower like top 25, 50, 75, 100, 150. I still think it would be easier to keep track of the WWR, that way you award with free teams the are really good players.
Thanks for listening,
DR Stars
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| 92 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Sep 25, 11:11
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I had some similar concerns about awarding prizes to division winners.
One is the issue raised above, that friends might be less likely to join a common division if it is felt that a random division assignment would offer better "matchups". And that seems to work against the community elements of the game - which might ultimately dampen registrations.
The other is that you have generally allowed people the ability to switch divisions at any point during the season. That privilege would obviously have to be withdrawn if division winners were to win a prize.
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| 93 | E'ville
Leader
ID: 29017810
Tue, Sep 25, 12:00
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I agree on the division factor. When I played elsewhere for prizes. The random divisions were easy to win. Also you would have to set a fixed number on teams in a division. That would deter friends from playing together.
Actually unless the prizes were major. I wouldn't mind playing for free plays either. As opposed to shirts, hats and minor prizes. Maybe the minor prizes could be free plays for everyone.
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| 94 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Tue, Sep 25, 14:14
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Interesting. I like your ideas -- but if we get 5000 sign-ups for Hoops, we'll be rolling in the aisles...
One thought we had is that we'd award prizes to the best DIVISIONS. This would be done by taking the average score of all the people in the division. So there'd be upside to being in an ultra-division.
Thoughts?
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| 95 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Tue, Sep 25, 14:49
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So -- should we give people the option of getting a free sweatshirt or something else worth $30 to win a division OR two free plays in future premium games? Would that be appealing to some?
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| 96 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Tue, Sep 25, 15:02
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I like the idea of free future games.
I think you should do it like this: when you create a team, you will have to choose whether you play for the "real" prizes, or for free future games. to win the free game you won't need to be eligible in any way, so this is good for both international players and minors.
I don't think there will be problems with "dead" teams like in the free game, because when you pay for soemthing like this you don't just drop it after a bad day, so the division thing might work. what you will have to do is determine a minimun # of teams a division needs to be eligible for the division winner prize.
also I like the top division stadnings. I have to say, this is one of the only things I can think of swirve has topped you guys in. you should make it the average of the top 5 or 10 teams in the division, not all the teams.
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| 97 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Tue, Sep 25, 15:15
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Giving prizes to the top 10 in the best couple of divisions is great, but that shouldn't take away from the teams that rank high on otherwise mediocre divisions, they should be first in line. Not everybody gets to enter the divisions they would want, or even know how to do it in the very early stages of entering these fantasy games. Some require pwds and are closed after 20-30 teams enter.
Erik B., how bout a couple of free teams for the Players here in Rotoguru.com??? and DEFINITELY give a couple of teams to the Guru himself.
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| 98 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Tue, Sep 25, 15:20
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Free teams? No, my friend. But we should be able to give RotoGurupies a DISCOUNT for signing up early for this game ... And check my new thread. This idea will really get you going.
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| 99 | The Bandwagon
ID: 148381715
Tue, Sep 25, 15:43
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Erik B, any idea when the Hoops game will be up and running?
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| 100 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Tue, Sep 25, 15:59
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BW:
Sometime next week, most likely.
-ESB
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| 101 | Grand Slam
ID: 45631812
Tue, Sep 25, 16:09
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"And check my new thread. This idea will really get you going. "
Erik B. what does this mean?
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| 102 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Tue, Sep 25, 16:13
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What new thread?
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| 103 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Tue, Sep 25, 17:42
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Uh, sorry, will post it tomorrow...
-ESB
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| 104 | Barrington
Donor
ID: 4785858
Wed, Sep 26, 09:54
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A voice from the golf boards:
I don't play hoops (did, but dropped out as it took too much time), but I do play TSN/SW fantasy golf. I also played the premiere soccer game. In golf apparently better than 80% of teams drop out and I suspect that is true for most of TSN/SW games - a real challenge for companies like TSN/SW that offer season long games and hope to make money.
From my perspective it is important to keep players active THROUGHOUT the season, in both the free and pay games. I think this will depend on the prizes and how creative you get in providing prizes, particularly weekly prizes that can keep people playing even if they have no chance of winning the season long prize.
That would be good for TSN in terms of attracting advertisers (because players would remain active longer and thus visit the site more often) and because players might be willing to pay a little more (since they would remain eligible for prizes even if they fall behind the leaders early in the season).
I know that I am willing to play some "pay" games (at least those that I think I can stay competitive in), but I also know that many individuals will not come back a second time if they are eliminated from winning anything too early.
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| 106 | Barrington
Donor
ID: 4785858
Wed, Sep 26, 10:19
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One other idea that I don't think I saw in this thread - how about an option of an annual fee giving players extensive access to all TSN fantasy games (free or pay). That might encourage some of us to play games that we otherwise might not building up a base for the future.
Maybe that could be the special offer for gurupies!
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| 107 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Wed, Sep 26, 12:15
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Barrington:
I think you'll see this idea in play for Baseball (and it's a good one), along with the all-sports contest.
-ESB
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| 108 | The Bandwagon
ID: 148381715
Wed, Sep 26, 15:43
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Erik B, where is the new post you mentioned in post 98 and 103? I'm curious :)
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| 109 | sarge33rd
ID: 158202516
Wed, Sep 26, 17:50
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another free fantasy game site, bites the dust.
CBSSportsline buys Sandbox
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Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
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