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Subject: Sad state of Free games on the net... Help
Posted by: QB
- [4484911] Fri, Oct 05, 20:27
With Sandbox down and TSN charging for a good game (The 5 player game is just a joke!) I need help finding a good game to play. Does anyone know a Sandbox style game out there? Help
QB |
| 1 | balls
Donor
ID: 84342112
Fri, Oct 05, 20:30
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I'm pretty sure Yahoo will have somthin
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| 2 | Joe U.
ID: 399482617
Sat, Oct 06, 10:13
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yeah im disappointed that SW has done this pay game and scaling back the free game. its just not right. they should have kept the same format as hockey with a pay game and the free game that is like all the SW fantasy games. I don't know if im going to play another SW game again if they keep up this pay thing because I don't have the money for it. so much for best free games on the net.
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| 3 | TheEdge
ID: 11781711
Sat, Oct 06, 10:28
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Ever since TSN bought SW, SW has been a disgrace. They start chargin you to play and they have the players waaaayy to overpriced.
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| 4 | Stud For Hire
ID: 4652869
Sat, Oct 06, 10:30
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I'm in a bad spot too. I'm a college athlete, and they don't look to favorably on gambling. I'm part of the decision making board for my conference, and at our meeting this summer we spent almost a whole day talking about the whole intercollegate gambling thing. I figured I was fine, because I've never bet on pro or college sports game, but someone mentioned fantasy spots. The advisor explained that as long as I don't pay for the game I'm fine, and if it's a free game, if I win a cash prize, decline it to be safe. Now I'm a realist, I know the chances of me getting caught for playing a pay game are slim to none, but that is not a chance I'm willing to take. I've devoted the last seven plus years of my life to my athletics, and although I love smallworld, this is not something I'm willing to mess around with. Good Luck to everyone in the pay game this year, looks like I'm off to begin work on my five man roster.
I'm not mad at smallworld for making a pay game. They have to make money. I just wish there would be more options for those of us who cannot pay, for what ever reasons those may be.
I guess there is a bright side to all of this. With all of the time I'll save not playing smallworld, I might actually get some studying done.
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| 5 | Erik B.
ID: 44811314
Sat, Oct 06, 12:33
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SFH:
Fair points. I still think you'll enjoy our Starting Five game (at least give it a try).
-ESB
GM/TSN
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| 6 | Dave R
Leader
ID: 147341310
Sat, Oct 06, 13:57
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I really wish everyone would stop complaining that TSN is going to charge to play SW hoops this year ( we have been offered a free game, whether you like it or not ). Welcome to the real world, why should we expect TSN to give us entertainment, or whatever you want to call it for free. Go to the movies and pay nothing, watch TV and pay nothing ( unless you don't have cable or a dish ), come on guys, get real.
The reallity is that TSN is in the business to make money as is every other business, they are not a charity. Your options arre very clear, either pay what is a VERY reasonable price or don't.
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| 7 | warriors
ID: 51926614
Sat, Oct 06, 15:12
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It is a pretty sad situation. I wonder what else is out there that has the salary cap format.
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| 8 | Stud For Hire
ID: 4652869
Sat, Oct 06, 17:14
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Thanks Eric,
I'm going to play the free game. I've been playing SW basketball for about three or four straight years now. No plans on stopping. And I'm not complaining about the pay game Dave, just saying I'm going to sit this one out. That's all.
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| 9 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 9952114
Sat, Oct 06, 21:44
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and you don't count that a lot of alternative games like 500k, lrv, nhm and no trades are going to disappear......pretty sad.....
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| 10 | Choller
ID: 41837303
Sun, Oct 07, 05:05
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Yeah, and probably no one is thinking about the people not living in the States. A lot of people won't play this because it's not as easy to send cash that it is for people in the states (not everyone has a credit card)
Anyway, guess everything is about money now, but you just lot a lot of happy players.
U can scrap that free game with only 5 players, updated weekly, heh... good luck
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| 11 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Oct 07, 07:20
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Funny. I remember when repricing moved to daily, and an awful lot of people complained loudly that SW would lose a lot of players because it would require way to much time to track.
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| 12 | Texas Flood
Donor
ID: 12458220
Sun, Oct 07, 09:00
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i think i will like the weekly repricing it's the crappy 5 player, 25mil cap and 2 trades that i really don't care for. i'm not huge hoops fan anyway so if i play fine if i don't fine.
Does anybody actually watch NBA games and if so Why? LOL!
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| 13 | QB
ID: 4484911
Sun, Oct 07, 12:07
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Dave... I think this is Different than the foramt change. I for one don't have a credit card and I can't afford to even pay for the game right now. So it leaves me out period! I think you will lose quite a few this way, it is not a matter of taste, but a matter a money.
QB
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| 14 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Oct 07, 13:41
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Imagine how attractive (for advertisers) the customer base for the free game will be. It may be dominated by people without credit cards and without money. Just the type of customers that internet advertisers are seeking!
If you were an advertiser, how much would you pay TSN to advertise your product/service at the free game site? That should give you an idea of the revenue potential for free games.
Two years ago, advertisers were paying a lot for you to ignore them. But that business model was doomed. If you want to play, you're going to have to find a way to pay for it.
That's not really a business decision for TSN. It's a business reality.
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| 16 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 9952114
Sun, Oct 07, 18:54
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guru, you forget the incredible number of pop ups they've just added to the site, and the sponsorizations......i don't think they need our money to stay alive, it's just that a game "customer oriented" even if with good businness opportunity, is turning in a simple businness; and it's frustrating...... i hope to have explained my toughts in the right way....
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| 17 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Sun, Oct 07, 18:59
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I haven't forgotten them at all. They irritate me as well - especially the pop-ups.
Don't assume, though, that this turns the free games into money-makers. My guess is that it only reduces the losses.
And if you don't think they need our money to stay alive, then you are kidding yourself. That's not even a close call.
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| 18 | sugarman
ID: 4936421
Sun, Oct 07, 20:23
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Can somebody tell me if there is a site where I can get up to date info about player injuries/likely starters etc.
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| 19 | Erik B.
ID: 25922721
Sun, Oct 07, 21:36
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Let's see -- I can't get too deep into our financials, but let me speak generally on this issue:
1) Advertising is an insufficient revenue stream in fantasy sports. By that, I mean, no company online could stay in business at an appropriate scale exclusively by advertising.
2) Advertising is intrusive. Unfortunately, pop ups and other things like pop-ups are the most effective ad campaigns.
3) We absolutely need to keep our user-base in order to be an ongoing business. This is especially true for our pay users (obviously).
4) The idea that something should be free because it has been free is intuitive, but inaccurate (as a business model). Simply put, these games are expensive to make. And if you factor in improvements -- like increased customer service, prizes, etc. it's impossible to both a want a totally free environment and also guarantee that your business will be around in a year.
We at TSN are looking to find a middle ground. Our premium products, relative to the rest of the market, are underpriced. $9.95 for a great hoops game is as cheap as you're going to get and still have a decent product. Those who are charging less than that will very likely go out of business, and soon. Those who are charging more than that, in my opinion, do not care as much about their community, are running a pure business, etc. WE are charging what we think we need to charge to stay afloat while (hopefully) not irritating our core users.
This is not a science. Some of you may not like what we are doing. But our strategy has been consistent with our interactions on this board, and I hope that you will at least take my words at face value.
-ESB
p.s. I will not be online on Monday and Tuesday, so if you don't hear back from me until Wednesday, it's not because I'm ignoring you!
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| 20 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 9952114
Mon, Oct 08, 12:50
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Erik, i'm just studying marketing, and i can easily understand you, infact i've signed 2 teams and i'm surely going to give a try to the new game, but a few questions:
1) can't you find a company on the net (for example an online auctions company like e-bay or similiar) which would sponsorize a free game by making people who want to play, signing to their site?? i'm pretty sure that every company which will provide to a market research, will know that TSN is among the best site for fantasy sports, with a great umber of players, so it would surely interest them.......maybe you'll gain more money from a sponsorization like that, because everyone would fill a subscription form if they know they should play free for one year.......don't you think??...it's just a question, because i don't know how internet businness works there in the usa, but here it's a frequent situation......
2) Isn't possible for you to make 2 identical games, one free and one paying, but not giving prizes for the first one and giving greater prizes for the other?
3) when the hell do you think we'll have back the soccer game?!?!?!?!;-)
a friend of mine, with the help of River, has a great fantasy soccer site, famous here in italy to be the most innovative in his range, it's called www.fantafoot.com, and it's a TSN oriented site, in the sense that it has among the same way of working (price changes, variety of games...), why don't you give it a look?? maybe we can help you in projecting a new great game for your already great site. Soccer is the most played game on earth, and i believe there are a lot of fans waiting for a great international game......give it a look, the site is in english too. bye.
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| 21 | SalDogg
ID: 7934916
Tue, Oct 09, 16:46
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everyone...when i found out about the new format i wrote the comissioner of sw and asked him to bring back the free game...i am 1 man...if you all join and send him emails too i think with enough letters we can get our free game back because starting 5 IS A JOKE like said by many others...i was planning on making a division but none of my friends are willing to pay so now im in a sw division...any1 that will join me and email the sw comissioner title it BRING BACK FREE HOOPS...once he sees enough of these we can get our game back...lets do this!!!!!!!
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| 25 | Choller
ID: 13027162
Wed, Oct 10, 07:54
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My friends won't pay neither.
I don't understand why everything has to be looked from a business stand point.
Agree, i'm not running such a game myself, but i try to do what i can do for free.
But everything has to be looked from a business standpoint.
One question. All those people who 1)Don't have a creditcard 2) Don't have money 3) Live in Europe and don't have a creditcard.
Did u thought of them and if your answer is yes than what would u advise them to do ?
I can only think of not playing, nobody is forcing me to play i know that, but the thing was fun, mad fun (and i was starting to get really into it).
A solution : make another free game with no prizes, lotsa popups etc.
Nobody, i mean nobody is going to play that free game. Imagine getting your news once a week. Picture everything you do daily (peeing) and then divide it by 7.
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| 26 | Ender
ID: 52438315
Wed, Oct 10, 08:30
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I'm playing the free game. I know of several others at least, so I wouldn't say nobody is playing.
I am certain they took all of the things you mentioned into account. The bottom line is that they could not continue to offer the game and LOSE money big time. Obviously less people will play, but they must at least break even, that won't happen if you have expenses and no income.
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| 27 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Wed, Oct 10, 08:42
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Choller:
I've repeated myself several times on different messsage boards, but here goes again: TSN cannot afford to offer all of its games for free. Each one of these games costs a significant amount of money to produce, and businesses simply cannot lose money year after year and stay in business. The common suggestion -- to offer a free game without prizes -- IGNORES the fact completely that we've done this for Football and Hockey and that most users tend to go to the free games because they don't care about prizes.
Now, don't get me wrong -- we want to have goodwill with our users, and we want them to feel like they're getting a fair deal, but to ask, Why won't this stay free? is really the same question as asking why Sports Illustrated isn't giving away its issues or movie theaters aren't letting everyone inside and then making money back on "pop-ups." Simply put, these models are not sustainable and we want to stick around for years to offer you great games.
-ESB
TSN GM
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| 28 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 34433228
Wed, Oct 10, 08:55
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erik, would you please comment my last post???
thanks......and:
how is that hardaway was a starter for miami last year and a reserve this year, and now costs a lot more than last year???
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| 29 | dusty bottoms
ID: 49946910
Wed, Oct 10, 08:55
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Erik B,
We realize that it costs money but if you are going to offer a pay game and a free game, why does the free game have to change from 10 players to 5.
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| 30 | Choller
ID: 13027162
Wed, Oct 10, 08:56
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Well that i made u repeat yourself, but i don't browse other boards plus i didn't see you post an answer on this board (i've looked in nearly all the threads).
In fear of making you repeat yourself i won't even mention what will it be for european players since it has been asked many times but no one cared to give an answer, oops i already did hehe...
Like i said in another thread, i just needed to get this off my chest and express my sadness in this decision. I know u guys already looked at the possibilities.
That's just the way it is, and hopefully i can participate, it's not about the money...it's about the CREDITCARD (!!!!).
YES CREDITCARD
CREDITCARD
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| 31 | valkyrie
ID: 51815210
Wed, Oct 10, 12:00
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Choller mail them a check- i am sure they will find a way to process it. Heck Eric might even extend you $10 worth of credit. Again as Guru points out I would much rather have the option to pay for the game than see it disappear completely like Sandbox and make no mistake that's our choice. Personnally I would pay(and did pay 2 years ago) for Sandbox formats but now I don't even have that option. Be thankful- we could have a sportsline running(ruining) tsn.
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| 32 | root88
ID: 359101014
Wed, Oct 10, 14:16
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Will someone please answer the question posted on the first message of this topic?
"With Sandbox down and TSN charging for a good game (The 5 player game is just a joke!) I need help finding a good game to play. Does anyone know a Sandbox style game out there? Help"
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| 33 | Dave R
Leader
ID: 147341310
Wed, Oct 10, 15:18
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Guess no one has an answer
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| 34 | Erik B.
ID: 48830517
Wed, Oct 10, 17:50
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Lazio:
The problem with your suggestion is that if the Free Game and the Pay Game are too similar, people end up playing the Free Game.
On soccer -- we're interested. I love Serie A, and would like nothing better than to make a Serie A game, but we need to understand the economics of the game and how we could justify building it.
-ESB
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| 35 | valkyrie
ID: 51815210
Wed, Oct 10, 20:13
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Root believe me we are all looking. I have even sent e-mails to CNN/SI and Fox suggesting they try to buy the discarded Sandbox format from sportsline.bankruptcy in process,
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| 36 | prefek
ID: 399581018
Wed, Oct 10, 20:21
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root88 and QB-
Yahoo! NBA is somewhat similar to the Sandbox game offered last year. You can choose between Rotisserie (sp?) style and fantasy points style, the latter being customizable but only available in their "private leagues," which are still free but don't give you a public ranking. In both cases, the game begins with a draft and not with a salary cap.
I'll be starting 2 private leagues (one with each scoring format) as soon as it opens up and and all gurupies are welcome (and invited) to participate.
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| 37 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 9952114
Wed, Oct 10, 20:57
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how to justify???
soccer is the most played sport on planet, serie a is the best and famous league in the world, and who doesn't have an italian in his family?!?!?!;-)
I don't know if it'll be possible for this year, but consider the proposal for next season, we'll be honorated to help you. But the greatest opportunity to build a great game about soccer will surely be the world championship in korea and japan of the next summer......i'll be very critic with you if you'll not cover this event!!!!
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| 38 | QB
ID: 4484911
Wed, Oct 10, 21:14
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prefek,
Will they be offering a slow live draft? If I have to settle for a fast live one that is ok, but I like the slow one better. Plus will they be offering a keeper league?
QB
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| 39 | valkyrie
ID: 51815210
Wed, Oct 10, 21:17
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QB- would you really join a "keeper" league your first year on a site and with people you haven't played with before? Keeper involves a real commitment to stay which is kind of hard to make under those circumstances
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| 40 | prefek
ID: 139431021
Wed, Oct 10, 21:55
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QB- they only offer a fast live draft or else an automated draft which is very non-intuitive and which I'd prefer to avoid. However, they also give you a third option in private leagues which is to conduct a draft privately and send them a list of the draft results. If people would perfer, we could conduct a slow live draft on these boards and submit the results to them (this is assuming I can get some people to participate).
As far as I know this is not a keeper league, though here's a link to their rules site:
Yahoo! Help - Yahoo! Sports Fantasy NBA
Note: Their board only shows the results from the 2000-01 season. They started Oct. 11 last year so I'm hoping the current season's offering comes out in the coming days.
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| 41 | QB
ID: 4484911
Wed, Oct 10, 22:16
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valkyrie,
I would join a keeper league with poeople I know from here and elsewhere... I would not join a blind keeper
QB
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