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Subject: TSN: Season Pass
Posted by: Erik B.
- [239592612] Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 15:57
Question for the group -- let's assume that the cheapest you can buy a single team next year is $14.95 for the Big Four sports. How many of you would be receptive to a package where we gave you access to all four games, access to four draft kits, and discounts on additional games for $50? Is this something you'd do????
-ESB
TSN/GM |
| 1 | Memphis Fan
ID: 539322613
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 15:59
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Too costly for my college blood. I had to join
AA to pay for Hoops this year =) j/k
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| 2 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 12943113
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:01
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I'd buy it, but what about the other sports?
pd
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| 3 | rockafellerskank
Donor
ID: 31973111
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:05
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No. I'll just speak for myself.
Reasons:
1. The draft kits aren't of interest to me. I tried the TSN football kit and found that I already knew what stuff was in it or could obtain it from free sites. I also like to gather tidbits from various sites to gain fressh perspectives.
2. I don't play hockey. I don't like hockey.
3. I don't want to committ to sports 3-6-9-12 months ahead of time. These games take alot of time to play correctly. Work, school, life, travel vacations, personal life are all subject to change and may prevent me from playing for periods of time in the future.
4. What happens if TSN folds the games? Do I get a prorated refund? What happens if TSN changes the game format to something I hate?
5. The discount isn't big enough to entice me to the committment.
6. There are times I might want 2 football teams, 1 baseball and 3 basketball teams instead of one of each.
$0.02
rfs
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| 4 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 12943113
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:11
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rfs, good points. I don't see where he said the number of teams would be restricted, though. That would certainly be an incentive, particularly when you know you'll be playing anyway.
Draft kits I can take or no. No big deal. But uninterupted access as in the past is worth reserving to me.
pd
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| 5 | Padkee
Leader
ID: 117381414
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:20
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No. See rfs post #3
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| 6 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:20
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Not something I would do (I only play 1 or 2 baseball teams and occasionally football), but a season pass seems like a very good idea IF you are offering unlimited teams. There are junkies here who play 20+ teams a year, including all the silly ones, so for a buck a week, it would be worth it to them.
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| 7 | Blooki
ID: 359321514
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:21
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No.
Reason:
Simply because I only play Fantasy Hoops. I don't really have an interest in other games. Plus I'm not too excited about those draft kits. I can't speak for the other sports, but I think I would only be interested in the draft kit for Hoops if it were updated regularly. In other words, I suggest having a system where you can purchase access to certain parts of your own site with player info, injury reports, managing advice, etc. Of course, all of this should be quality information so I suggest somehow hiring a veteran manager who has finished strong in previous years to help with such information. The way I see it is that if I invest enough time on the message boards and various news sites, I can pretty much match up with any other manager in what information or tips I have. So if I were to be asked to invest in a tool to help me with my managing, I am not interested in getting more resources to read up on but rather I am interested in maxing out on the same information at a smaller investment of time. Not sure if all of this will be cost-effective or profitable for TSN, but just a thought.
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| 8 | E'ville
Leader
ID: 29017810
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:34
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rfs pretty much nailed it for me too.
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| 9 | Sandlot
Donor
ID: 5343219
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:39
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Only if my $50 buys me multiple teams per sport. I could care less about hockey or the draft kits, but I do like to have multiple teams. This year's basketball is the first time I have paid for fantasy sports. But since I was paying, I didn't get into LRV or 500K, which I would have liked to do. Also, draft kits are really of no use to me either. I prefer to do my own research and compare that to conventional wisdom on these boards.
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| 10 | havenbros
Donor
ID: 54930129
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:43
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Agree with all of rfs' points. I only play hoop and golf (not one of your 4 majors) so $50 would be too steep. I'd be looking for a 2 or 3 hoop team package for around the same $20 or so I spent this year.
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| 11 | rockafellerskank
Donor
ID: 4911539
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:45
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hmm... taking off on biliruben's point.....
I'd pay $50.00 to TSN right now for 8-10 game credits to use as I see fit...or $99.95 for unlimited 1 year access.
IE:
hoops/football/baseball/(hockey for those who care)
playoffs games
survivor games
mid-season games
In otehr words, if you want my mony now, just give me 10 credits to be used whenever I want. If I'm a hoops junkie, I can play 10 hoops teams if I want.
I would do that, but I know that there will still be alot of otehrs that price will make the answer a firm "no"
rfs
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| 12 | SU_Rules
ID: 519339
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 16:52
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I'm with rockafellerskank on this one!
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| 13 | philflyboy
Donor
ID: 2844635
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:02
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I would like an unlimited price also. I do play all 4 sports but also enjoy all the extra games (500K, LRV, boat race etc). With the new free game set up the games are not going to be as fun (LRV with only weekly repricing).
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| 14 | Ender
ID: 52438315
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:07
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Your points 3 and 4 above are not solved by the game credits scenario. #3 is the biggest reason why I wouldn't do it. #4 is no problem if I know they are going to be around long enough for me to work around unplanned mishaps.
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| 15 | Slowhand
Leader
ID: 369303116
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:13
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I like rfs's option; many of us skip 1 or 2 sports (no baseball for me)and the game credits would be great...maybe even 3,5,10 and unlimited packages.
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| 16 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 266182910
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:18
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Hate to sound like a copy cat, but I have to agree with rfs in his initial post and subsequent posts.
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| 17 | Stuck in the Sixties
Leader
ID: 12451279
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:34
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Just ask RFS to do your marketing, sit back and enjoy the ride!!
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| 18 | VIDevilRays
Leader
ID: 29439176
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:37
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#3 is the reason why I would not do it. Also don't play football or hockey.
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| 19 | smallwhirled
ID: 157582113
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:40
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Memphis Fan,
Maybe I should join AA with ya after last nights debacle.
Seriously!
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| 20 | KevinL
Donor
ID: 4496319
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 17:59
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I would be very interested in a package like this, but not in this particular plan because I don't do hockey.
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| 21 | Roachster
ID: 31962513
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:02
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NO. You guys are getting too cute. Just keep it simple and give better prizes.
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| 22 | Stuck in the Sixties
Leader
ID: 12451279
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:10
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I don't do hockey, either (or golf or NASCAR). And some sort of heavy-use discount ought to be in order. But I don't want to get stuck in the same situation Chicago Cubs fans are.
For years, the Tribune has refused to spend heavily on players because they didn't have to. Wrigley sold out every game, year in and year out. So why pay put money into player salaries when the fans come to the games anyway?
Here, I think that those of us who are paying for the games represent the Cub fans -- the diehards.
But let's have TSN make some improvements before responding to an offer for mass use of their product that will simply line their pockets.
For example, where is the information on the amount your team has won or lost on each particular day?
Why are players who have been cut still in the player database, mucking things up?
There are plenty more examples.
In other words, before we respond to requests for even more money, let's make them give us a superior product now that we're paying for it.
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| 23 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 258492618
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:21
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You don't sound very stuck in the sixties....
;)
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| 24 | Blooki
ID: 359321514
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:21
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Harsh... I don't think it's that bad. Some simple math can give you the first data (or the use of the Assimilator) and the issue about cut players mucking things up? I don't know about you, but my managing hasn't been mucked up by them.
::shrug:: Would be nice if the game was nicely polished and ran smoothly, but I'd hardly refer to a couple of spots they've missed here and there as "muck".
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| 25 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:41
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C'mon -- we have hoops stats up, on time, in reasonably good shape. Many sites CRASH on opening day. We want to be better -- and we'll get the bugs worked out in the next couple o' days -- but this was a great launch for us without too many problems.
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| 26 | smallwhirled
ID: 157582113
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:44
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"muck"
A blueish colored monster found primarily in the Marsh Cave in Final Fantasy 1.
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| 27 | prefek
ID: 19523117
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:47
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...not to be confused with "Ooze," the orange colored monster found in lower levels of the Earth Cave. I love that game :-)
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| 28 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 35928913
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:50
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"Muck" is also one of the pieces of construction equipment in the "Bob the Builder" show (not to be confused with What about Bob, who would be considered the antithesis of "Bob the Builder").
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| 29 | Blooki
ID: 359321514
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:54
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RE:#26 & 27
...or Pudding, Jelly, Cream, and Tofu... their 16-bit relatives in Final Fantasy IV, a future installment of a great series.
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| 30 | Blooki
ID: 359321514
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:56
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Erik,
Agreed. Some people are just impossible to please. Kudos to you guys.
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| 31 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 266182910
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 18:59
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... also not to be confused with "Scum" (yellowish-green), nor "Slime" (purple).
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| 32 | smallwhirled
ID: 157582113
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 19:07
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Haven't played in a while.....I'm an RPG freak though.
I'm absorbed into Chrono Trigger at the moment. I love playing games that you beat five years ago.
BTW, I have beaten FF1 approximately 15 times.
I haven't taken the time yet, but have any of you beaten it with the 4 White Mages.
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| 33 | allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 5881656
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 22:07
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In a nutshell, ditto post #3.
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| 34 | slimer
ID: 578511919
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:08
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14.95 a team? geeesh
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| 35 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:13
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WHOA! Hold on!
Erik B., I appreciate your board presence during the last month. And yes, you had stats up this morning. But let me say this:
Whoopdie freackin' do!
Puhlease. I expect NO LESS from a game for which I pay. Heck, it's not even any better treatment than the current free game or past free game got at this point. I agree 100% with Stuck in the Sixties. We showed you the money, now make it worth our while. I want continuous operation with proper and prompt customer service. I don't want to hear about the problems in this thread. AND I'd really like confirmation from Dai, manly, and El Tel that you guys ponied up and fixed the situation mentioned in this thread.
"C'mon -- we have hoops stats up, on time, in reasonably good shape. Many sites CRASH on opening day. We want to be better -- and we'll get the bugs worked out in the next couple o' days -- but this was a great launch for us without too many problems. " This doesn't do much for me. You could have tested all the features that didn't work this morning, particulalrly the ones that were apparently problems at the launch of Hockey.
I don't mind paying to play a game I enjoy, but you haven't done anything yet to undo past transgressions. Are things looking better? Yes. But to me it sounds like you thing today was a huge accomplishment. It wasn't. Meeting expectations is just that, it's not a big deal. I would expect no less, so I don't think it's a big deal to accomplish it.
I'm sorry I've ranted this long, but I doubt many people are willing to throw $50 at you before you've demonstrated that you're worth the $11.95 or $20 that we've given you already.
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| 36 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 266182910
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:22
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Wow! I hadn't seen the prize issue thread. Makes me change my "No" to a "NO". rickz post #31 in that thread raises yet another interesting question about TSN and their customer service. Thinking, thinking, thinking......
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| 37 | PitchersRule
ID: 599102321
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:26
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Is post #25 really Erik B? It doesn't seem to be his style of writing. Is it the work of Eriks alter ego(Luckyluc)?
Also, you guys actually paid to play, SUCKERS!
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| 38 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:33
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The ID's match.
PR, I knew what I was paying for and am still OK with the price I paid for the game AS IS. I'm just saying that along with paying to play comes certain expectations, especially when it comes time to decide if I want to pay AGAIN. One day of early posted stats does not a season or quality product make.
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| 39 | PitchersRule
ID: 599102321
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:42
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Ender,
The ID's matched from the other post in which people were posting from TSN under Eriks handle. It turned out to be some smartass trying to get cute. I guess Erik supposedly laid the smack down.
PR
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| 40 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:44
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Thanks, PR. I wasn't aware of that. We'll see, and my opinion stands with maybe a little less edge to it either way.
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| 41 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 21446223
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:49
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Ender the thread PitchersRule is referring to is the Kudos to Smallworld, in the football forum. The irony of Blooki's wording (in regards to the "Kudos" thread title and content) in post 30 makes me smirk.
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| 42 | PitchersRule
ID: 599102321
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:50
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Ender
Is this you first time paying for a fanatasy game? I can't seem to bring myself to pay for fantasy sports. Maybe its because I don't have alot of money, or maybe because I have found better ways of spending my money. Its tough to say. Someone in another thread stated that it cost .02 cents per day or something like that. Well, it only costs .20 cents a day to feed a starving ethopian, but yet I still don't feel compelled to send them money neither.
PR
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| 43 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:52
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I have paid before, but rarely, and not for this format. The enjoyment I get from playing and the comraderie I get from these boards is well worth the amount I paid this time. I do want a return on my investment in the form of improvements to the game.
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| 44 | PitchersRule
ID: 599102321
Wed, Oct 31, 2001, 23:56
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Ender
Thats cool. I too understand the enjoyment of playing and I really hear you on the comraderie of the Gurupies. Its kinda weird that they are already talking about raising the price for future teams. TSN needs to walk before they can run.
PR
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| 45 | Baron
ID: 335292020
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 01:00
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The only sport I would pay $15 for is baseball. I think a package for any two of the sports might be a better option than one for all 4. Most people don;t play all 4 sports.
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| 46 | James K Polk
ID: 4455731
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 01:04
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LOL RSF #28 :)
You must have youngsters. My 4-year-old is a diehard Bob the Builder fan. I'm a little concerned about the unresolved sexual tension between Bob and Wendy, though :)
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| 47 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 10:26
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Whoa! Who let the dogs out?
Let me take a step back before I take one forward.
I agree with your points, mostly. For a pay product:
* Service needs to be consistent, at a high quality.
* C. Service needs to respond to problems in a timely manner.
* Game quality must improve.
Here's what we've done with Hoops, and over the last month:
* Premium users have generally had emails answered within 24 hours.
* Stats were up on time, with few problems on opening day, and preventive measures were taken to prevent downtime on opening night.
* Prizes have been awarded to the soccer guys -- or are in the process of being rewarded. Dai, manly, et al are happy.
* Improvements are being made to our interface. Many people like the Division ranking feature we've put up for this game. Once the season gets going, I also think tons of you will like the Fan's Column.
* Finally, we're improving in _small ways_. A manager asked to have players ranked on his team page by price -- we've done that. And we'll continue to do things like this to make our customers happy.
That being said, I don't want to toot TSN's horn too strongly. I write all of this to let you know, then, that your priorities are our priorities. We believe that building a good product is the ONLY way we'll be viable over the long-haul.
-ESB
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| 48 | Tree
ID: 599393013
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 11:13
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nah, i wouldn't do this for a couple reasons:
1. i cant imagine paying for a draft kit. i don't even buy fantasy mags, and have more fun flying by the seat of my pants, reading my normal intake of sports news for the day (i read 3 newspapers daily, and surf the web a ton, so that helps)
2. i don't play hockey. i dont pretend to know enough about hockey to play the fantasy version. as an experiment last year i played the premier league soccer, without paying any attention to schedule or anything else for that matter except player movement within the game, and still managed to place third in my division...it was fun, but i got bored midway through, and by season's end had accumulated over 100 trades. hockey would be that way for me...
thusly, i'd pay 15 bucks a pop (one each for baseball, football, and hoops), and ultimately end up feeling screwed.
i'm not saying change the pay-for-play system, because it's the current and the future, but it is interesting to note there about 5,000 teams playing ultimate hoops, when there were about 350,000 last year..
anyway, on to my suggestion, vis a vis a season pass, and already made by others.
take my 50 bucks. offer me 8 credits (about 50 percent off) to play when i want, with no expiration date, and no limit to the number of teams in one game...
maybe some sort of structure like this:
1 credit - $15.00
2 credits - $ 25.00
3 credits - $ 30.00
4 credits - $ 35.00
5 credits - $ 40.00
6 credits - $ 45.00
8 credits - $ 50.00
just an idea...
Tree
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| 49 | Shelby-villian
ID: 261146232
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 11:36
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One feature which would make the paying
customers happy is live scoring. This feature
alone might justify paying 15 bucks for a
game.
Please take a look at yahoo fantasy sports
StatTracker- it is very well done.
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| 50 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 12:04
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Gang:
Thanks for all the feedback. This tells me that we'll lean toward the credit idea and go away from the season pass idea.
-ESB
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| 51 | Blooki
ID: 359321514
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 12:09
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If we make a big enough clamor about the retro-free idea will you guys go with that over the credit idea? ;)
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| 52 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 12:11
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Uh, Blooki, let's take a timeout for reality, shall we?
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| 53 | tduncan
ID: 47616279
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 12:11
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erik you think it will be posiblle for you guys to add the change stats in the football game also?
these are very helpfull.
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| 54 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 12:18
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Duncan:
It's in the works.
-ESB
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| 55 | jphutch
ID: 469352912
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 13:36
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Doesnt anyone else find it disturbing that two days into the basketball season he is already quoting a significantly higher price per team. It is a "no" for me on the credits thing as well if the price is going to continue up. Im not completely happy paying for the game I played free last year much less already finding out the price is rising. This is a lot of fun, but, to this point, I dont see any added benefit to the pay game as opposed to the free one I played before. Im hoping for a good product but understand my cynicism here. I dont post often but I have been here for over three years in case you need to know.
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| 56 | Erik B.
ID: 51059113
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 14:01
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JP:
Easy there. The prices being thrown around are arbitrary. We're just playing around with models, and haven't finalized any price-points yet.
-ESB
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| 57 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 14:13
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Love the arrows, very nice touch. Keep our dollars working for us! :)
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| 58 | E'ville
Leader
ID: 29017810
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 14:21
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Erik
I've got one problem with the neat little arrows.
Mine are all pointing down :o) I guess I'm supposed to fix that.
Actually just wanted to say things are smooth and appreciated here. Also I like the credit idea.
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| 59 | perk9600
ID: 4542177
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 14:26
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I suggested this on the hockey board. I think if you are going to charge the best way for me is if I pay once. Get a user name and then play what I want. Thanks
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| 60 | perk9600
ID: 4542177
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 14:34
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Actually I like the Credit Idea with different amounts of credits for different prices. I have only played Hockey and Baseball but would play all four under that format. maybe $50 is a little high though.
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| 61 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 14:34
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Just to add another voice (same argument though) I like the credits idea, to use on different games, maybe you can play with team credits and sports credits, team credits will get you a team on any sport, and sports credits will let you have many teams in any sport.
For me I'd get team credits to play an ocasional football or baseball games (maybe playoffs), but I'd buy a sport credit for basketball and have multiple teams.
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| 62 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 266182910
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 15:00
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Question: A lot of us play the "modified rules" games like LRV (low roster value), $500k, OTO (one team only), etc. Would there be a way of having a different price for a team that wouldn't be eligible for prizes? In other words, if you pay $14.95 per team (not me), then maybe you pay 1/2 that or $7.95 (again, not me) per team for a team that isn't eligible for any prizes at all.
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| 63 | Dr. Doom
ID: 596271411
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 15:19
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How about adding two more days to the "Weekly stat breakdown" for all the games and in particular the pay games.
If you are going to pay a weekly prize to the top managers how will we know who might be a winner. When does a week start, and how about a list of winners so everyone knows.
I would think that there may be a weekly winner or two in this community but we shouldn't have to guess.
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| 64 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Nov 01, 2001, 15:23
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Doom:
Thanks for the suggestion. We'll definitely think about this one.
-ESB
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| 65 | perk9600
ID: 4542177
Mon, Nov 12, 2001, 16:00
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Erik,
I know this is a little late but I just wanted to say something. I am not playing the hoops game and am playing Hockey which is currently free. However I do expect that you will be charging for that game as well as baseball this coming year. I have not paid for Fantasy sports in the past as this is only my second season playing but the prices you have suggested do seem reasonable. The only hangup for me at this point is I wont really be willing to dish out the money until you have some sort of deal(such as this one) in place. Whether it be that I subscribe to your magazine or pay for 10,12,15,20 credits or whatever. The point is I fear I will pay for Basketball or Baseball and then a deal will come along afterwards. Basically that is the gist of what I am saying. If you are planning on putting something together I would say the sooner the better. Thanks
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| 66 | blind ambition
ID: 89372816
Mon, Nov 12, 2001, 16:07
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nope, only play baseball, basketball, don't care about others or draft tools
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| 67 | slamma
ID: 591041216
Mon, Nov 12, 2001, 16:28
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I think if you entice us with better prizes, it might give us incentive to play for more $. The prizes here are pretty minimal, and quite frankly, lame. Perhaps you should invest more time in statistical analysis of how much incentive creates how much interest. This year, in my opinion, is a bust. Only 5000 players world-wide is not very acceptable competition. (I just started fantasy sports last year, and already I'm at 34 wwr. I'm not THAT good.)
I enjoy playing in this league; but with the good free sites out there, it is becoming clear that, without strong incentive, I'll be forced to take my business elsewhere.
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| 68 | Ender
ID: 52438315
Mon, Nov 12, 2001, 16:35
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slamma, no offense, but it's just THAT early...
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| 69 | PeterGunn
ID: 471014108
Mon, Nov 12, 2001, 16:41
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LOL Slamma. Kick some Gurupie ASS!! They need to be knocked down a few pegs. LMAO.
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