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Subject: The exact definition of an assist
Posted by: T
- [81101413] Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 16:53
Can someone tell me the definition of what is an assist and what isnt an assist? It would really help me a lot.
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| 1 | Ref
ID: 235252912
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 17:11
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I've got the exact definition at home. I've got the NBA statistions rule book. Rather than tell you what it is--as I know, I'll quote it verbatim if I have time tonight.
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| 2 | rockafellerskank
Donor
ID: 4302629
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 17:49
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Assist: A pass that leads directly to a basket.
according to a glossary of terms from NBA.com's site
rfs
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| 3 | rockafellerskank
Donor
ID: 359283123
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:22
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However, it seems the Official Scorer has quite a say in the mattter:
Assist - An assist is assigned to a player when -- in then judgement of the official scorer -- his pass leads directly to a basket by a teammate.
rfs
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| 4 | T
ID: 11455422
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:24
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If you could in the next half hour it would be very helpful ref. Rockafeller thats a rather vague definition i was hoping for something more specific than that. Lets say Kidd passes to Kenyon; Kenyon dribbles in place a couple of times then drives to the hoop and hits the shot. Is that an assist? Also Turnovers...lets say Kidd throws a bullet pass to Martin and Martin gets his hand on it but never has a handle of it who gets the Turnover...Martin or Kidd? If anyone has the answer id be very happy.
Thanks
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| 5 | Josh
ID: 99161612
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:37
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The following rules and examples are from the NBA Statistician's Manual that I was given by the Timberwolves Official Scorer around 1992 (not sure if it has changed since then).
Section VI-Assists
1. Any assist is credited to the player tossing the last pass leading directly to a field goal, if and only if the player scoring the goal responds by demonstrating immediate reaction toward the basket.
2. No more than one (1) assist is to be credited for each field goal.
3. An in-bounds pass can be an assist, if it leads directly to a field goal.
EXAMPLE: Ball is lofted in direction of basket and teammate taps the in-flight ball into the basket. SCORING: Credit player passing ball in-bounds with assist.
EXAMPLE: Player passes the ball in-bounds to a teammate moving towards the basket, and that latter player scores. SCORING: Credit player passing the ball in-bounds with an assist.
4. An assist may be credited on a pass to the pivot shooter, provided there is an immediate reaction on the part of the pivot shooter, in attempting to score. If there is not an immediate reaction, the Official Scorer must decide whether the pivot shooter made the score on his own initiative and, therefore, credit him with the score but do not credit the passer with an assist.
EXAMPLE: Ball is passed to a player who dribbles once, makes a head fake and scores. SCORING: Credit the passer with an assist as the continuity is not broken by the one dribble and head fake.
EXAMPLE: Ball is passed to player who dribbles the ball more than once, stops, fakes, and then scores. SCORING: Do not credit passer with an assist, because continuity was broken by receiver's action to get position on opponent.
EXAMPLE: The two examples listed above refer to passes made to a pivot player, and do not refer to any other types of passes, such as a pass leading to a fast break, or a long pass down the court, which leads directly to a basket; these other type pass plays require an assist be given to player involved.
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| 6 | rockafellerskank
Donor
ID: 359283123
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:41
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T - Still can't find anything conclusive. I think TO's, assist and stats like that are going to be at the judgement of the Official Scorer.
The "key" word in the above definitions seemd to be LEADS to a teammates basket.
What's one man's assist my be another man's insignificant pass.
On a related note, there is a clip from an article advocating MORE stats be kept. A junkie like me would love it.... LINK
There are other actions that wouldn't be so simple. For instance, I've often lamented the fact that a great pass that leads to a score isn't always considered an assist. Consider the situation where player A makes a difficult pass to player B, who then basically hands it to player C for an easy dunk. Player C will get the shot and the points, player B gets an assist, and player A gets nothing, even though his pass was the key part of the play. We see this happen a lot on fast breaks, where a great outlet pass leads to a fast break. If there's another pass involved in the break, the outlet passer gets no credit. The assist is the most difficult statistic to track, as it is often not clear whether an assist should be awarded or not. I'd love to see the rules regarding scoring of assists changed. But I don't have a good suggestion as to how they could ever be accurately kept without it coming down to the scorer's judgement.
rfs
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| 7 | Im better than Marve
ID: 2410192222
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:46
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rfs,
I was wondering:
If Jason Kidd passes to kenyon Martin and he
gets fouled and makes a foul shot or two foul
shots is that an assists?
:-) IBTM
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| 8 | joe suspect
Donor
ID: 441143311
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:48
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Nope.
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| 9 | Josh
ID: 99161612
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:50
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Not as much in the Manual for Turnovers
Section VII - Turnovers
1. A turnover is charged whenever the offensive team loses possesion of the ball without attempting either a field goal or a free throw, except when the quarter expires without a team having attempted a field goal or free throw. An offensive rebounds results in a new "possesion of the ball" as that term is used here.
EXAMPLE: A player misses a shot, however one of his teammates rebounds and is guilty of a traveling violation. SCORING: Charge the team with a turnover, since the rebound constitutes a new "possesion of the ball."
2. Charge a turnover to the offensive team AND THE OFFENDING INDIVIDUAL in the following situations:
(a) 3-second violation
(b) in-bounds violation
(c) traveling violation
...
(i) bad pass, resulting in loss of possesion
... !!my comment - it goes on through (q)!!
3. Charge a turnover to offensive team, but NO INDIVIDUAL, in the following situations:
(a) 5-second (in-bounds) violation
(b) 10-second violation !!I'm guessing the new manual if there is one says 8-seconds!!
(c) 24-second violation
(d) isolation violation !!I think this also changed!!
So as far as your Kidd to Kenyon pass, if it was Kidds fault, I think Kidd gets the TO. If it was a good pass, but Kenyon fumbled it away, it is Kenyon's TO.
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| 10 | T
ID: 11455422
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 18:51
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Thanks Josh for the lengthy post and the examples they will come in handy.
and thanks for the effort Rockafeller, i guess ill use my own judgement tonight...yikes
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| 11 | Jupiter
ID: 81125123
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 19:29
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It is threads like this makes this board great. Great posts here!
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| 12 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 21:06
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If the player creates the shot after receiving the pass, then it is not an assist.
If Martin catches fakes and drives, then it is NOT an assist. If he catches and shoots, or catches on a cut to the basket for a layup or dunk it IS an assist.
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| 13 | Roar
Donor
ID: 412141319
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 22:30
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Good call, Ender. For several years, I kept the official stats for a couple of college basketball teams. Occassionally, the stat crew has to make a judgement call on an assist or turnover. Most of the time, though, it's pretty straightforward.
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| 14 | Seattle Zen
ID: 37241120
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 23:01
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Next up, Steals. I have always wondered who gets credited for a steal in the following situations:
1. Player 1 on team X tips a pass between players for team Y. This tip defects the ball into Player 2's hands from Team X.
2. Player 1 on team X knocks the ball down court from a dribbling player on team Y. Player 2 on team X runs down the ball and takes it in for a 360 slam.
I would argue that Player 1 should get credit for the steal though he doesn't take possesion of the ball himself.
Is there any language in the "Manual"?
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| 15 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 23:20
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I would be curious how the NBA scores it. I can tell you that as a coach, I credit the player who intiated the steal, not the player who ends up with the ball.
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| 16 | SillySpheres
ID: 551031723
Wed, Jan 02, 2002, 23:33
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Right, I would think that the person that did the work for the steal (Player1 in your examples) gets the credit, not the player who gets the ball by chance.
I think the same applies to rebounds: If Player1 jumps up and tips it back to his teammates, he should get the board, not the guy who ends up with it.
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| 17 | ahsbball05
ID: 571039718
Thu, Jan 03, 2002, 03:03
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but in rebounding, the ball is tipped around alot, who's to say who tipped it, the offensive player or the defensive? unless its clear cut that a certain guy tipped it intentionally to someone then the guy who ends up with it should get the board.....with steals, its hard when someone makes a good play by tipping the ball away, then you chase it down fighting another guys for position and wrestling with him and are victorious if the person who "just" tipped the ball gets credit...but i think thats how it is
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| 18 | allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50740190
Thu, Jan 03, 2002, 18:23
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Based on nothing more than personal interpretation, I look at steals a lot like I look at rebounds. If a rebounder tips but does not possess the ball he doesn't actually get credit for the board, does he? Example... If two opposing players are rebounding a missed shot and the ball gets tipped in the air in an indiscriminate manner, I don't award the board. If one of players comes down with the board, or is able to direct the ball in a manner implying possession (such as a tip in for a score) I give him the board. Again, I don't honestly know the specific ruling on this.
Steals I look at the same way. If a player tips the ball away but does not get the ball back that does not imply possession to me. If the player doesn't possess the ball, he didn't steal it. Likewise, if the original dribbler lost the ball but recovers it before an opposing player is able to I don't assess a turnover. In the situation where the player tips an opposing ball and a teammate recovers the ball, I don't think either should be credited with a steal. Why? The first player never had possession and the second player recovered a loose ball and did nothing to actually steal the ball. I could be completely wrong about all of this, but that's how I'd score it.
Jeez, where is Ref when you need him? Or how about The Source? :)
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| 19 | Ref
ID: 121135289
Fri, Jan 11, 2002, 21:54
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Sorry, had to leave on a road trip and didn't have time then.
This is really long...
Section VI - Assists
1. an assist is credited to the player tossing the last pass leading to a field goal, if and, only if the player scoring the goal responds by demonstrating immediate reaction toward the basket.
2. No more than one (1) assist is to be credited for each field goal.
3. An imbounds pass can be an assist, if it leads directly to a field goal.
EXAMPLE: Ball is lofted in direction of basket and teammate taps in the inflight ball into the basket. SCORING: Credit player passing ball inbounds with an assist.
4. An assist may be credited on a pass to the pivot shooter, provided there is an immediate reaction on his part to score. IF there is not an immediate reaction, the Official Scorer must decide whether the pivot shooter made the score on his own initiative and, therefore, credit him with the score but do not credit the passer with the passer with an assist.
EXAMPLE: Ball is passed to a player who dribbles once, makes a head fake and scores. SCORING: Credit passer with an assist as the continuity is not broken by the one dribble and head fake.
EXAMPLE: Ball is passed to a player who dribbles the ball more than once, stops, fakes and then scores. SCORING: Do not credit passer with an assist, because continuity was broken by receiver's action to get position on opponent.
EXAMPLE: The two examples listed above refer to passes made to a pivot player, and do not refer to any other type of pass, such as a pass leading to a fast break or a long pass downcourt, which leads directly to a basket; these other type pass plays do require that an assit be given to the player involved.
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| 20 | Ref
ID: 121135289
Fri, Jan 11, 2002, 22:09
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Rebounds is 3 pages--don't feel like typing it all out like I just did with assists but to sum up:
A rebound must be credited on each unsuccessful FG or FT attempt (hence team rebounds)...
if you save the rebound from going out of bounds and you tap it to a teammate--you get the board...same on a tap that's deliberately tapped to a teammate...tap it off an opponent and your team gets the ball out of bounds--you get the board...buzzer ends before rebound seceured--no board--same for a whistle for a foul, etc...if going for the ball and foul called--team rebound...if you get your shot block and you recover your own shot--you get Off board. Much more--but you get the gist.
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| 21 | Seattle Zen
ID: 37241120
Fri, Jan 11, 2002, 22:39
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Steals, Ref, steals. What's the deal with ... steals.
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| 22 | Ref
ID: 121135289
Fri, Jan 11, 2002, 22:47
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Yes Sir, right away sir.
In short...
1. Steal cannot be credited w/o a turnover also being charged but TO can be charged on the play w/o a steal being credited.
2. Credit a steal:
a. Taking ball away from opponent legally
b. intercepting a pass even with no extraordinary effort by interceptor or loose ball on floor as a result of a TO
c. deflecting dribble away from opp to a teammate.
d. obtaining poss. of ball folowing TO whtn the ball remains inbounds and clock is not stopped.
In above situations--credit steal to player who knocks.bats ball toward teammate resulting in eventual poss.
NOTE: A steal is NOT credited to a player whose def. actionsresult in a violation or foul by off. team.
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| 23 | Ref
ID: 235252912
Sat, Jan 12, 2002, 15:23
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I think I'll start scanning pages in if people truly want much more...
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| 24 | Seattle Zen
ID: 37241120
Sat, Jan 12, 2002, 15:58
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Thanks, Ref, you confirmed my suspicions.
It's great that you can still read, I guess that "legal blindness" won't completely steal you of all sight for at least a couple more years ;)
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| 25 | Ref
ID: 1442849
Sat, Jan 12, 2002, 16:14
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I enjoy the humor. Actually, during my last complete physical, my eyes were 20/13. I told him that know one would ever believe that!!!
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| 26 | Seattle Zen
ID: 37241120
Sat, Jan 12, 2002, 16:24
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Eagle-Eye Ref!!!!!
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| 27 | TaRhEElKiD
ID: 42109719
Sat, Jan 12, 2002, 20:21
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Ref-
What about when a ball is just throw out of bounds on a bone-headed play?
Would a stl be awarded? Because that HAS to BE a TO.
THK
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| 28 | SweetGP20
ID: 110291719
Sat, Jan 12, 2002, 20:42
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What about when a ball is just throw out of bounds on a bone-headed play?
Would a stl be awarded? Because that HAS to BE a TO.
THK, with years of experience of playing the NBA live series, I can tell you that it's a TO but no steals are credited.
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| 29 | Ref
ID: 1442849
Sun, Jan 13, 2002, 15:12
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As I said above:
1. Steal cannot be credited w/o a turnover also being charged but TO can be charged on the play w/o a steal being credited.
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