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Subject: We nearly 'rigged' the game..but learned a lesson?
Posted by: Species
- Donor [304521510] Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 15:46
WAB and I were laughing the other day as we reminisced about our joyous adventure in last year's Smallworld 3-for-all "Survival" game. Do you remember it? Well, let me tell you the story.
The basics were the same as this year's playoff football game. You have a group of players to choose from every week: 1 G, 1 F and 1 C. Once you have used the player they are eliminated from use for the duration of the game. Simple enough. But for this game, SW added a twist with the "Survival" aspect. Every 4 weeks a predetermined number of teams would get eliminated ('voted off like "Survivor" so to speak) from the game......the scores then reset....and you'd go another 4 weeks and so on.
You had 20 teams to a division. If you won your division, you won $100.00. All of the division winners then went into the "Finals", where the last weeks of the season would determine the sole "Survivor" and the winner of $5,000.00. The game was very intriguing, because you had to match wits with your division mates. Burn all of your studs early, get eliminated later. Don't burn enough, trying to save for the 'Finals' and a shot at 5 grand, and get burned and eliminated. What was the best strategy to win? So much seemed to depend on the luck of the draw....as in how competitive your division mates were. That was the inherent weakness in the game, and we chose to exploit it.
So, we had 19 teams. WAB got up in the middle of the night and put 16 of them in one single division, leaving 4 non-Species/WAB teams there. The first 4 weeks were easy enough. 1 team was invalid for a week, another team just was lame, so we skated by without using much that first go around. After those 2 teams were eliminated, 4 teams were to be eliminated after another 4 weeks. There were 16 of our teams and 2 other teams involved.
During that 4-week span, Boston and Indiana had 5-game weeks, so we figured we would be using those players to match the other 2 teams. For the most part that was the case. Going into the final week of that elimination period, roughly 6 of our 16 teams were ahead of the other 2 teams. This was the week Indiana had 5 games, so the 2 other teams both used Jalen Rose, Jermaine O'Neal and an Indy guard (Best? Miller? Can't recall). So on the 6 teams that were ahead of them, we simply matched them.....there was no way for the 2 non-Species/WAB teams to pass us. But what to do with the other 12 teams?
WAB decided to go for broke and use Kobe and Shaq, who had a 4-game week. He matched Rose at F on some, and burned the likes of WEbber and McDyess on some of the lower teams. Incredibly , we ended up eliminating those other 2 teams! For the rest of the time leading up to the Finals, we had the non-Shaq teams go invalid, allowing us to allow a team with Shaq and nearly all of the rest of the studs (excluding Pierce, Walker, Rose and Jermaine, who unfortunately also had 5-game weeks in the "Finals") remaining as we entered the Finals. It was NEARLY foolproof.
Well, as fate would have it, we used Kobe Bryant in week 1 of the 'Finals', and he injured himself in the first game of the week. We still nearly made a miraculous comeback, and in the end we finished 3rd I believe (but would've been 2nd if not for SW changing the rules about the final week of the season ).
I'm sure many of you read this and say that justice was served, and that it taught us a lesson. Damn right it did! Next time we see an opportunity like this you put 16 teams in two separate sets of divisions so you can avoid getting screwed by one injury!
You didn't think I'd say something like 'Cheaters never win', do you? |
| 1 | smallwhirled
Donor
ID: 157582113
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 15:49
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Great thread, Species!
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| 2 | Farn
ID: 171128623
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 15:54
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by chance are you related to Youngbuck?
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| 3 | deepsnapper
Sustainer
ID: 421144298
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 15:55
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Thanks for the laugh Greg, You'd have to know the week I was having to really appreciate it.
Thanks again. I needed a reason to smile.
Roy
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| 4 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 16:04
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In this case, I wouldn't categorize the tactic as "cheating". Just taking advantage of the rules, and the system.
And your $100 return on a $160 investment isn't as bad as it could have been. You could have bought stock in Enron!
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| 5 | Species
Donor
ID: 304521510
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 16:08
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Farn - no, not related to Youngbuck. And I shutter to think why that would be the case.
Roy - no problem! Glad I could help! I hope all is well down there in gunrack/tornado territory.
Guru - We made money! We had three other teams (2 in one division, 1 in another) and in total won 3 divisions. So, we came out ahead! You didn't expect us to lose money , did you? ;-)
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| 6 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 16:12
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I know you made money overall. But the marginal return on your "corner the division" gambit lost $60.
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| 7 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 16:15
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So if you put all 19 teams in different divisions, you'd probably gotten more than $300.
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| 8 | Species
Donor
ID: 304521510
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 16:45
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DR Stars - True, but the whole point was to go for the whole enchilada........the $5,000.00. I'd rather make a slight profit while nearly rigging the $5k prize than to spread it out and win less.
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| 9 | migdallion
ID: 301011419
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 18:09
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Species, wasn't there a stressful day or 2 near the end of the season where WAB's password was mysteriously changed and you couldn't log in? that sure was a shame....
i wonder how that could have happenned? boy, am I glad it got fixed in time!!
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| 10 | Species
Donor
ID: 304521510
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 19:17
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LMAO!
You're right, migdallion! Hmmmmmmm......we have 2 possibilities:
1 - You did it;
2 - You worked at SW at the time
I'm betting #1.
In all seriousness, it's totally water under the bridge. No harm was done and it was from a year ago. Care to fess up? How did you do it? And, why did you do it?
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| 11 | Rangoon Goondog
ID: 481442510
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 14:49
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Um, Migdallion, do you care to respond?
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| 12 | RR41
ID: 4811522716
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 21:37
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This is the most blatant case of cheating I've seen in TSN. And the most unbelievable thing is that the people who run this game support it. Or is the most unbelievable thing the fact that the cheater actually has the audacity to brag about it. I hope that when the rules for this year's game are posted, that there is a section explaining that such cheating is going on and is condoned. Of course there is always a good side to everything. At least the cheater has saved me the price I would have paid to enter this year's contest. As a matter of fact, how do I get a refund on the three baseball teams I purchased. Now that I know that the management of these games supports cheating, I have lost my desire to play any of them.
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| 13 | azdbacker
Donor
ID: 1832261
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 21:46
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RR41, grow up. They acted within the confines of the rules to give themselves the best possible chance of winning. While their tacticts may not be to your liking, there is no way that they could be construed as cheating.
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| 14 | Im better than Marve
ID: 2410192222
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 21:59
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Azd is right.
I bet RR41 was one of those two teams who
got eliminated from their division.
:-) IBTM
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| 15 | Species
Sustainer
ID: 7724916
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 23:46
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LOL!
Their mistake was not reshuffling the divisions before the game started RR41.
Anyway, the management in charge at that time is looooooooooong gone. Erik and his crew are doing a great job at improving the game. Stick around and enjoy it.
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| 16 | JCS
ID: 10033296
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 01:52
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Re post 10 - I'm not concerned by all of this, but from what I know, it's answer #2...In fact, I'm affirmative it is #2.
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| 17 | Ender
ID: 52438315
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 09:09
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"I hope that when the rules for this year's game are posted, that there is a section explaining that such cheating is going on and is condoned."
The very fact that it was "condoned" proves that it was NOT cheating. Cheating involves breaking the rules, this was clearly within the rules.
I also know that SW was made aware of this possibility before the contest begane. They had the opportunity to disallow it and did not. If they choose to allow it, it is by definition, not cheating.
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| 18 | RR41
ID: 550242822
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 17:42
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Their mistake was in not reshuffling the divisions. Your mistake was in not getting all 20 spots in the division which I'm sure you will correct this year. That way you won't have to use any good players until the final round. I'm glad to see that there are so many people who think this strategy is fine and will contribute to your winnings again this year. I would but I only play legitimate games.
Oh by the way, I don't see anything in the rules that forbids a hacker from getting in and erasing all the entries but his/her own so I guess this is OK also.
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| 19 | jedman
Sustainer
ID: 27481118
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 17:51
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What a stupid analogy, comparing somebody using the rules in his favor to somebody breaking the law by illegally accessing a computer database.
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| 20 | Species
Sustainer
ID: 304521510
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 18:35
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Hey guys, let him/her be upset.....it's their issue, not ours.
Remember RR41, that game is long gone. Rules and procedures were put in place to assure it would never happen again. It was a one-time deal, and that's why it's funny to laugh about it after-the-fact. Remember, we didn't win, so no harm done.
Give TSN a chance. It was not THEIR game. Sure, it's the same platform, but it is run by totally different management these days and IMO they are doing a credible job of keeping things legit and fair.
There IS a moral to all of this though. READ THE RULES. Read them carefully. Take advantage where you can.
Peace!
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| 21 | migdallion
ID: 21091311
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 20:57
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Species, the answer to your question in post #10 is both 1 & 2. I worked for SW, and I did it. You assumed someone had simply "hacked" into your team? That would be impressive.
One of my responsibilities while at SW was to take care of the elimination process for that game. So I first noticed the division after the second elimination (2 months in- around new years) and realized what you guys had done (though I thought it was Just WaB based on the reg info). I also noticed that all the teams were registered in the middle of the night and was fairly impressed with your tactics. I brought it to the attention of some of the management but it was concluded that there was nothing we could do since no rules had been broken. I was convinced that you would win given the massive advantage of having all of the studs left for the final rounds and WaB's gurupie status and told people that we had screwed up big time.
Then the final large round of layoffs occurred in early April. The morning before the announcement came I took it upon myself to change the password in the database. Not the most professional move, but I made sure that it would be corrected and that you would not suffer from it. I just wanted to see WaB sweat a little and I was sure he'd be 5 grand richer in a few weeks anyway and would be able to laugh about it in the end. As you mentioned you guys weren't able to pull it off and the password was never a problem anyway as it was fixed in time.
WaB had rubbed me the wrong way the year before when the controversy over my j-smooth team and KB8er's team had surfaced in the sw/cnnsi game. As you may recall, KB8ers was disqualified on a technicality and I ended up winning the grand prize (it was more complicated than that, but I think the thread still exists if you don't remember what went down). WaB slammed me on the boards as though I had somehow wronged KB and owed him something. So I thought I'd play a little trick on him. I would not have done it if I didn't think I could ensure it would be properly fixed.
So thats basically what happened. Kudos to WaB and Species for a clever strategy, and it was very fortunate that you guy's didn't pull it off because that would have been a real PR disaster (although I guess it would have gone undetected by other sw players). And, BTW, that was an excellent game model and had the divisions been reshuffled before the season started it would have made for a relatively smooth and very compelling game. Also, props to TSN for what has been a very well run season (AS break price changes aside)- though I wouldn't really knock former management and their tendency to neglect the general gurupie sense of entitlement.
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| 22 | Species
Sustainer
ID: 7724916
Tue, Mar 05, 2002, 23:08
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Hey Jon -
Thanks for fessing up. Very big of you. GREAT story (memo to RR41 - I guess it wasn't cheating after all! heh heh heh)! It sounds like a soap opera. Vengeance was yours! LMAO.
Of course I remember the details of the CNN/Si game. Just like this Survival game, it's water under the bridge. In the end you got your prize despite SW's inteptitude regarding that situation, so no big deal. But I have to admit your bitterness about the aftermath is interesting.
The only thing that I wonder about is the handle change? Why not just be d/j-smooth like you had always been?
What impresses me most was that WaB actually suspected you as being migdallion when we first talked about it.....I scoffed, but again he was right.
One last comment....regarding the last line of your post (#21). A Gurupie sense of entitlement? Bullsh!t! SW 'management' came on here offering such entitlement. It was not expected....it was practically promised, and the promised follow up never materialized. And if you don't remember what went down, I'm sure there are plenty of threads archived to remind you.
Peace.
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| 23 | Rangoon Goondog
ID: 231153721
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 02:34
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d/j-smooth is outed!
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| 24 | kev
ID: 36925310
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 03:11
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Great thread!
Major cudos to Species and WaB for finding a flaw, and taking full advantage of it. Very good strategy. Not cheating in the least.
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| 26 | allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 52112514
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 10:33
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Well, I finally had a chance to read this thread. At first I couldn't stop laughing -- you two guys are my heros! Then (of course) I had to wade through all the requisite "you're cheating" blah blah blah. Hey, if jedman gives his ok, it's fine with me!
Then I get down to the portion where d/j smooth confesses his involvement with the passwords and I stop laughing. I won't make a big deal about it, but I find it pretty disturbing.
Anyway, WaB and Species, too many conniving late night chat sessions for you guys! ;)
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| 27 | Rangoon Goondog
ID: 481442510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 11:37
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What's disturbing about what d/j-smooth did, Allhair? He knew they wouldn't be penalized for, and I think it would have been a funny (albeit unprofessional) way for Small World to acknowledge that while WAB and Species were rigging the game, they were within the rules, and that ultimately SW had screwed the game up. There's so much to get disturbed by in this world, there's no use getting your preachy or worked up over that. I think this a pretty funny story through and through.
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| 28 | Gman15
Leader
ID: 44961510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 11:42
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It doesn't disturb you in the least that an employee could do that? What if he randomly decided to change the password on your team? I agree with allhair on this one - I can't believe that there were no obstacles or consequences to that type of behavior.
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| 29 | Rangoon Goondog
ID: 481442510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 12:32
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If my password was changed and there were no consequences, I would probably panic until it was fixed, but in the end not care at all if it had no effect. If it adversely affected my squad, that would be different . . .
Also, SW knew what he was doing. It not like he was some rogue employee who, in the middle of the night, broke into the buildling with the intent of screwing over WaB (although WaB did register in the middle of the night to rig a game in which other people paid to participate). He was told by the people he worked for that WaB wouldn't be penalized, so he screwed with them. So what? If WaB and Species can laugh about it, good for them, and I don't know why this would bother you.
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| 30 | allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 52112514
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 13:02
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Ok... I'm an administrator at a bank. I notice some suspicious activity in one account, and I discover that it is the account of a person that has in the past complained rather vehemently to my peers at the bank about a loan that was denied (making me look bad in the process). To exact some "justice" I take it upon myself to temporarily change the PIN number on his account. I know how to reverse the change, and I don't think it will cause any harm, outside of a great deal of stress for the affected customer. What's the problem?
I have always had a great deal of respect for d/j smooth. I think, however, that it's unfortunate that as an employee of SW, he "tampered" with the account of a customer for fun/revenge. What sense does that make to you? IMHO it wouldn't have been nearly the issue if he had told them he was screwing around with them at the time, but to disclose it at this point is, to me distrubing.
Again, Species says it's water under the bridge. Guess that's good enough for me. I assume the issue wasn't brought up to stir up the pot so I'll just take a seat.
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| 31 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 13:20
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I won't start another tirade on unwritten rules because lord knows that the board has seen many of those (read: Ben Davis Break Up No-No) but I think the actions in this thread were pretty pathetic. Regardless of the rules of the game it is unfortunate that people feel that they have to take advantage of every little loop hole that they can find in order to ruin the integrity of a game.
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| 32 | Rangoon Goondog
ID: 481442510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 14:01
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Good point CP.
Allhair, something tells me were not going to agree. I disagree with you not because I lack the imagination to see how d/j-smooth's basic course of action could have serious consequences in other, unrelated scenarios; I understand what he did, and I don't need to be patronized with metaphors. I think it's no big deal because it's fantasy sports (which I probably take as seriously as anyone without a major behavioral disorder, which, incidentally, d/j-smooth has), and not a bank, or a government, etc. I see this whole thing as fun, and I don't see what he did as undermining that spirit of fantasy sports. That's all I have to say, I will post no more on this unless you call me a mean name.
-Goon
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| 33 | Gman15
Leader
ID: 44961510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 14:01
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It absolutely floors me that someone can write about the integrity of a game and have a problem with someone violating that and have no problem with the integrity of a person who would take advantage of their position in a company to exact revenge on a customer. What am I missing here?
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| 34 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 14:42
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Did you see Buffalo '66, Goon?
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| 35 | Micheal
ID: 371024132
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 14:56
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I'm on Ben Davis' side. Only down 2 runs in a tight game and someone has a problem with him bunting. I would have done the same thing.
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| 36 | Micheal
ID: 371024132
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 14:56
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...but I also would have took the basketball.
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| 37 | Bungers
ID: 5311343110
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 15:18
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Rangoon, will you please quit being such a Crab? ;)
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| 38 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 15:55
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GMan,
I think the distinction that "The Goon" is trying to make is that with "PasswordGate" noone was hurt, though the actions were underhanded and absolutley stupid. I think we can all agree that the character of the individual is definatley still in question though.
What Species and WaB did not only brings their character into question but also "hurt" others in the process. By tilting the playing field into their favor there was no way that their 4 divisionmates had a pray at beating them so they in effect cheated these individuals out of their money.
Both acts were pathetic and lacked any sense of sportsmanship but when money is on the line I guess sportsmanship doesn't matter to some people. This is not the only problem they had with the Survivor game, some guys found a loophole where you could sign a team in for free but later where called on the issue IIRC.
Makes you wonder why the game I had a ton of fun playing no longer exists.....Thanks a lot gentlemen!
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| 39 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 16:09
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Well put, CP. Some people are so wishy-washy with their definition of "ethics." They'll berate someone on these boards to no end over one thing and then bend the rules on another and find a way to rationalize it.
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| 40 | DR Stars
ID: 162592010
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 16:29
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I don't get it.
If it's not against the rules, why is it soo bad what WAB and Species did? Is Randro bad too? it's a loophole that allows managers to make lots of money fast, and it's not against the rules, the difference is that everyone did it. So what if Wab and Species had 17 teams? anybody else could have done that same thing.
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| 41 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 16:36
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I coach a baseball team. If I see my kids stealing signs from the catcher and relaying them to the hitters I get very upset and promptly discourage it from happening again because though it isn't against the rules, it is understood by the people who play the game that it is not to be done.
[Also normally ends up in a ball planted in their back once they get older]
However you want to justify it, what they did was underhanded and unethical. 4 teams got screwed over and 4 people had their money taken due to the unfair playing field that they were dealt.
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| 42 | Gman15
Leader
ID: 44961510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 16:43
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CEHP - with your message, I see you and I are in agreement regarding the actions of all parties. It was not clear to me in post 31 that you had any problem with d/j-smooth/migdallion's actions, but your post 38 makes it clear to me that you do.
I still disagree with Rangoon Goondog's assertion that it was OK to change the password because it was only fantasy sports and no one was hurt. If Smallworld was still running things and this was disclosed to me, it would have been the end of my business relationship with them.
Razor - not sure if the flexible ethics point is aimed at me. If it is, let me know.
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| 43 | Species
Sustainer
ID: 7724916
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 17:19
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EH - you're dead wrong! The 'ethics' issue does NOT lie within the "unfair playing field" of the the 4 division mates. Not in the slightest! We were ALL on a level playing field from DAY ONE. We ALL had the exact same players to choose from. How on earth does stacking the division hurt any of their individual chances??????????????????? All they had to do was be superior in a 4-week span of ANY four of our teams. What's the rub? Clarify please.
Now, where the ethics may get a little cloudy is in the "Finals", where we did indeed have quite an advantage. But that's a completely separate debate from the point you make.
You and I have had similar 'ethics' debates in the past (i.e. Swirve Baseball).....we will not agree on this one either. You call it unethical........I call it smart.
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| 45 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 17:40
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Where the rub lies is that there was NO WAY that you would lose to one of the other 4 teams. By implementing different strategies on 16 different teams unless you are a complete dumbass there is noway that all 16 of your teams would be beaten by 1 of the other teams. The liklihood of all 16 of your teams doing worse than 1 of another players teams is not very high. All that matters is that one of your teams ended at the top of the division and with a 16:1 advantage over your 4 divisionmates you ensured that this would happen.
You are correct, we won't agree as I recall the Swirve debate. Though you may not think that your "smart" play resulted in anyone getting hurt I still beg the question....where is the game now? Perhaps your antics in the inagural season turned the new management off of putting together a similar project that could be abused in such a way.
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| 46 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 17:55
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Don't insult us all and call it "smart." Just because it wasn't explicitly in the rules to know do what you did, you think it's ok to do it? Should we make a rule for every possible scenario to prevent unfair advantages? Illegal and unethical seldom go hand in hand and that's a concept that seems to have eluded your grasp. Certainly you can acknowledge there is a difference between the letter of the law (or in this case, the rules) and the spirit of the law (or in this case, game). The game was not designed to have people buy free passes to the finals with all of the quality players intact and that's all you have to know.
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| 47 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:05
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Oh ya and I stole Chipper Jones jersey, right out of his locker, two years ago. I mention this because I'm not going to stand here and get all preachy and pretend like I have never done anything wrong. Of course, I don't regret it, in fact, I'm proud of it.
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| 48 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:13
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The game certainly doesn't seem to have been played in the spirit it was intended. Whether that makes what they did unethical
or not is more subjective.
I think, as was acknowledged, the rules of the game were not appriopriate to maintain the spirit of the game and prevent it from being inevitably exploited by those who prefer to only play in situations where they have secured or already possess an inherent advantage.
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| 49 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:15
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I've done many unethical things and I'm not about to say I haven't. In fact I've carried out some unethical deeds to help out some gurupies.
When it comes to competing I think that ethics and sportsmanship are important because when I win I want it to have been a win with no question marks around it.
In sports, I always play by the rules and I don't try to gain unfair advantages over my competitors.
When I play video games, I don't use cheat codes, I play all of my games on "Professional" and I don't take offsides off.
In fantasy sports I buy 1 team and I do my best to take it to the top. I don't peak at draft queues and I don't use waiver wire tricks to gain advantages (another Species specialty).
Some people just like winning but I find wins without ethics to be hollow victories.
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| 50 | Rangoon Goondog
ID: 481442510
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:17
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OK, Bungers called me a mean name, so as promised, I'll post again . . .
Is this thread about fantasy sports? Are we searching for a satisfactory definition of "cheat"? Are we discussing God, Human Nature, and the Moral Order? What does it all mean?
Of all the questions that have been raised in this thread, I can definitively answer one: No biliruben, I've not seen Buffalo '66, though I've meant to for some time now.
Why don't I question d/j-smooth's moral character? Well, I know him, and he's a good guy. But if I didn't know him, I'd feel the same way about the situation.
CP: interesting you should raise the point about sign-stealing in little league baseball - do you recall hearing that the coach of the american team that finished 2nd in the LLWS was stealing signs?! What a creep, huh? That story was obscured by Almonte's age, but I thought that was awful . . .
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| 51 | beastiemiked
ID: 14821921
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:17
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Was what Species and WAB did unfair? Probably.
Was the game unfair to begin with? Definitely.
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| 52 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 3502218
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:23
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Goon - I only asked because there is a character in the movie named "Goon" who complains about the protagonist being "mean" to him. I thought it was a bit of a coincidence, but I guess that was all it was. ;)
See the movie!
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| 53 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:25
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No Goon, didn't read that. Draws an interesting question though. Which was worse, the kid being overage or stealing the signs?
One is outside of the rules, one isn't...to me they are both wrong and kill the spirit of the game.
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| 54 | Razor
Donor
ID: 305102622
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:57
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So...wherever rules can be exploited to gain an advantage, we should do it? And the rulemakers are at fault? And those who don't exploit rules aren't "smart"?
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| 55 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 42121814
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 19:45
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CanEHdian Pride and Razor, have either of you used Richard's price mover predictions to your advantage in the past?
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| 56 | CanEHdian Pride
ID: 426351415
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 20:15
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I can honestly say that I haven't though I am not clearing myself of any and all "unethical" behaviour pertaining to sporting/competition events. I've hit after the whistle, givin' guys the business at the bottom of the pile and I've even called a few knock down pitches in my catching days.
The point I am trying to make here is that by posting this Species is admitting to the fact that they were trying to "rig" (read: #5) a victory.
So please, let's not rehash every possible way that someone could act unethically because I've done many things that could be viewed in such a way. When I do so I normally don't a)do it dishonestly for personal gain and b) brag about it after the fact.
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| 57 | Ender
ID: 13443221
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 21:48
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Is there a point here anywhere? Or are we all just posting to read our own posts?
I see a whole lot of opinion and very little conclusion. Can we get some closure and let this thread die so people can stop thumping their chests and get down off their individual soapboxes.
The rules allowed it and it is by definition not cheating. Whether you like it or a approve of it is something entirely different and subjective. Put it to rest and let it go as the two main parties who were directly involve appear to have done.
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| 58 | Burnettsville
Donor
ID: 319362319
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 22:07
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My opinion:
Species' strategy = not cheating
migdallion's password "trick" = wrong
YOUNGBUCK's basketball = stealing
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| 59 | deepsnapper
Sustainer
ID: 421144298
Thu, Mar 07, 2002, 09:05
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Thanks for sharing Species. Didn't realize you'd get gutted for what IMO was a funny story.
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| 60 | RR41
ID: 550242822
Thu, Mar 07, 2002, 18:02
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Well since I started a lot of the hoopla about this by being the first to disagree that this was a brilliant and ethical strategy on species part, let me try to put it to rest. The bottom line is that the game has either gone into the crapper or the rules have been changed to prevent a reoccurance so there is no need to be concerned about it any more. I didn't know until later posts that measures had been taken to ensure that it didn't happen again. If I knew that I wouldn't have bothered to say anything in the first place. I just didn't want to see that become the game's winning strategy.
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| 61 | CanEHdian Pride
Donor
ID: 426351415
Fri, Mar 08, 2002, 08:29
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The game doesn't exist anymore.....why? noone is sure but I'm sure incidents like these didn't help.
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| 62 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 211013916
Fri, Mar 08, 2002, 09:26
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Thump, thump.
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