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Subject: Players to pickup for 2003 season? (Long Thread)
Posted by: CableKMC
- [287381412] Thu, Aug 14, 2003, 15:36
Based on all the roster changes that have occurred over the offseason, who would you consider as "pickups" for your TSN SmallWorld team for the upcoming season (based on current rosters as of 8/14 and obvious lack of TSN pricing)?
Since I was bored during this offseason, I put together my list of pickups for each team based on the following criterias from a TSN Smallworld perspective: ( And yes, I had enough time on my hands to go through each roster to figure this out )
1st tier Pickups - These are the "Definite Pickups" like the Garnetts, TMacs, and Duncans of the world because they are well worth the price, definitely produce and someone you should have on your roster (if the schedule fits).
2nd tier Pickups - These are the "Worthy Pickups" that may produce decent TSN points (but can be inconsistent at times), 1st tier players that may be injury prone more often then not, 1st tier players that have new "star players" on their teams that may (or may not) affect their overall production (like Ricky Davis) or rookies that you believe will be immediate "impact players".
3rd tier Pickups - These are the "Cheapie Pickups" that you pickup cuz they are probably going to produce enough TSN points (of course, this is based off of who was considered "cheapie players" last year) or guys that you may not consider to be worthy of being a "1st" or "2nd" tier player but worthy of a roster spot cuz of their schedules.
Sleeper Pickup - These can be rookies that you think will be "impact players" only if they get significant minutes (like Dwywane Wade or Reece Gaines), starters that didn't play too much last year due to injuries (like Camby or McDyess), players that you think will produce since they will get more minutes due to roster changes (like Marko Jaric) or players that you think will finally have a "breakout" year (for one reason or another) that may be worth keeping an eye on.
Remember, this is more of a discussion thread based on who you would "overall" consider as pickups for your upcoming TSN Smallworld roster.....NOT A DEBATE on whether a player would, should or should not be considered a "1st/2nd/3rd tier/Sleeper" player or even included on the list at all. I figure that this would be a good place to gather a list of players to look at for the upcoming year.
Celtics
1st Tier - Paul Pierce
2nd Tier - Antoine Walker
3rd Tier - Jumaine Jones, Marcus Banks
Sleeper - ??
Heat
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Caron Butler, Brian Grant, Eddie Jones
3rd Tier - Malik Allen, Vladimir Stephania
Sleeper - Dwyane Wade, Rasual Butler
Nets
1st Tier - Jason Kidd
2nd Tier - Kenyon Mart, Richard Jefferson, Alonzo Mourning
3rd Tier - Jason Collins, Lucious Harris, Kerry Kittles
Sleeper - Zoran Planinic
Knicks
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Allan Houston, Kurt Thomas, Keith Van Horn
3rd Tier - Howard Eisley, Charlie Ward, Clarence Weatherspoon
Sleeper - Antonio McDyess, Mike Sweetney, Maciej Lampe
Magic
1st Tier - Tracy McGrady
2nd Tier - Juwan Howard, Drew Gooden, Gordan Giricek
3rd Tier - Shawn Kemp, Tyronn Lue
Sleeper - Reece Gaines
Sixers
1st Tier - Allen Iverson
2nd Tier - Derrick Coleman, Aaron Mckie, Glenn Robinson, Eric Snow
3rd Tier - Kenny Thomas
Sleeper - ???
Wizards
1st Tier - Gilbert Arenas
2nd Tier - Jerry Stackhouse, Larry Hughes
3rd Tier - Kwame Brown, Christian Laettner
Sleeper - ???
Hawks
1st Tier - Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Jason Terry
2nd Tier - Theo Ratliff
3rd Tier - Nazr Mohammed
Sleeper - Boris Diaw
Bulls
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Tyson Chandler, Eddy Curry, Jamal Crawford, Scottie Pippen, Jalen Rose
3rd Tier - Marcus Fizer, Kirk Hinrich
Sleeper - ???
Cavs
1st Tier - Zydrunas Ilgauskas
2nd Tier - Lebron James, Ricky Davis, Carlos Boozer
3rd Tier - JR Bremer, Darius Miles, Ira Newble, Dajuan Wagner
Sleeper - ???
Pistons
1st Tier - Ben Wallace
2nd Tier - Chauncey Billups, Richard Hamilton, Darko Milicic
3rd Tier - Elden Campbell
Sleeper - Tayshaun Prince
Pacers
1st Tier - Jermaine O'Neal
2nd Tier - Ron Artest, Jamaal Tinsley
3rd Tier - Scot Polard, Al Harrington, Reggie Miller
Sleeper - Jonathan Bender
Bucks
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Desmond Mason, Michael Redd, Toni Kukoc
3rd Tier - TJ Ford, Dan Gadzuric, Tim Thomas
Sleeper - ???
Hornets
1st Tier - Jamal Mashburn
2nd Tier - Baron Davis, Jamaal Magliore, David Wesley, PJ Brown
3rd Tier - Darrell Armstrong
Sleeper - ???
Raptors
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Chris Bosh, Vince Carter, Antonio Davis, Jerome Williams, Alvin Williams
3rd Tier - Voshon Lenard
Sleeper - ???
Mavs
1st Tier - Dirk Nowitzki
2nd Tier - Michael Finley, Steve Nash, Nick Van Exel
3rd Tier - Shawn Bradley, Raef Lafrentz
Sleeper - ???
Nuggets
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Carmelo Anthony, Andre Miller, Nene Hilario
3rd Tier - Rodney White
Sleeper - Marcus Camby
Rockets
1st Tier - Steve Francis, Yao Ming
2nd Tier - Cuttino Mobley
3rd Tier - Eddie Griffin, Kelvin Cato
Sleeper - ???
Grizzlies
1st Tier - Pau Gasol
2nd Tier - Jason Williams, Stromile Swift
3rd Tier - Shane Battier, James Posey, Lorenzen Wright
Sleeper - Dahntay Jones
TWolves
1st Tier - Kevin Garnett
2nd Tier - Sam Cassell, Latrell Sprewell, Troy Hudson, Michael Olowokandi, Wally Szczerbiak
3rd Tier - ???
Sleeper - ???
Spurs
1st Tier - Tim Duncan
2nd Tier - Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Radoslav Nesterovic
3rd Tier - Malik Rose, Turkoglu, Ron Mercer, Robert Horry
Sleeper - ???
Jazz
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Andrei Kirilenko, Matt Harpring, Keon Clark
3rd Tier - Michael Ruffin
Sleeper - Aleksandar Pavlovic, Carlos Arroyo, Raul Lopez
Warriors
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Speedy Claxton, Antawn Jamison, Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy
3rd Tier - Mike Dunleavy, Erick Dampier, Adonal Folyal
Sleeper - Mickael Pietrus
Clippers
1st Tier - Elton Brand
2nd Tier - Corey Maggette, Lamar Odom
3rd Tier - Marko Jaric, Quentin Richardson
Sleeper - Melvin Ely, Keyon Dooling, Chris Wilcox
Lakers
1st Tier - Kobe Bryant, Shaquille Oneal
2nd Tier - Gary Payton, Karl Malone
3rd Tier - Derek Fisher
Sleeper - Luke Walton
Suns
1st Tier - Stephan Marbury, Amare Stoudamire, Shawn Marion
2nd Tier - Anfernee Hardaway
3rd Tier - ???
Sleeper - Leandrinho Barboasa
Blazers
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Rasheed Wallace, Bonzi Wells
3rd Tier - Zach Randolph, Derek Anderson, Ruben Patterson
Sleeper - Qyntel Woods
Kings
1st Tier - Chris Webber
2nd Tier - Mike Bibby, Brad Miller, Bobby Jackson, Vlade Divac, Stojakovic, Doug Christie
3rd Tier - Gerald Wallace
Sleeper - Darius Songailia
Sonics
1st Tier - Ray Allen
2nd Tier - Rashard Lewis, Brent Barry
3rd Tier - Vladimir Radmonovic, Nick Collison
Sleeper - Luke Ridnour
It is very possible, that I missed some players that is not on any of the lists....so please make your additions. |
| 1 | JerryLewis
ID: 45751018
Thu, Aug 14, 2003, 17:16
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Some of your sleepers are questionable. You actually think Zoran Planinic is going to get minutes with the NETS?
Luke Walton will be lucky to just make the LAKERS roster. He won't play at all.
Jonathon Bender is nothing. He's no sleeper.
I don't see Luke Ridnour playing much for Seattle. I'm sure they will pick up somebody to back up Brent Barry at point guard.
Darius Songalia? Where was he last year?
Barbosa with the SUNS. He's not gonna play much for a few years. MARBURY is in front of him.
Carlos Arroyo and Raul Lopez are just SCRUBS with Utah.
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| 2 | Rubalamp
ID: 6615911
Thu, Aug 14, 2003, 23:36
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Come on, next year I would be a scrub for the Jazz...Keon, could have an incredible year, similar to Howard in Denver. Points and rebounds because no one else is there to do anything.
I agree that Bender is a sleeper, but after this year if he does not produce I think it will be safe to call him a bust. Also watch the Pacers rotations in the preseason. Foster or Croshere could get a lot minutes with Miller gone. Foster is a monster on the boards when he has to be.
Lampje should be a great sleeper, Gerald Wallace I think falls under a sleeper, because he should get a chance to breakout, with Keon gone...And of Course Webber will get injured...
Woods and Randolph should produce quite a bit, so I concur...
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| 3 | CableKMC
ID: 287381412
Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 12:47
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JerryLewis,
Good response. And I may agree with you on some...but not all.
Zoran Planinic - I don't know if he is going to be used by the Nets as a 2nd or 3rd string PG.
Luke Walton - I didn't realize he was a second round pick. The Lakers are nothing more then a 4 man team with a bunch of bench warmers may or may not contribute. Who knows?
Jonathon Bender - Every year.....Bender is the perennial sleeper for the Pacers. He has the potential to do very well ( the guy is a former 1st round pick that is a 7 ft SG/SF ), but only if he gets minutes. With the possiblility that Reggie may begin to cutback his minutes and ( if we are lucky ) Isiah gets the boot by midseason, Bender will get minutes and may actually do something.
Luke Ridnour - I would think that he would either be the 3rd (at best 2nd) string PG for the Sonics. What other guard do they have that can play that position ( other then Antonio Daniels )?
Darius Songalia - he was the player that the Kings picked up in a trade with the Celtics for the Kings draft pick for this year. He would be coming off the bench for the Kings...isn't as deep as it used to be in the SF/PF position....especially now that Turkey-Glu is gone and there is the chance that they will lose Jim Jackson. Besides, there must be some reason why the Kings wanted him.
Leandrinho Barbosa - when I was suggesting him I wasn't suggesting that he would start over Marbury. After Marbury, Barbosa is the only other PG. If he plays, I do not know if he would be a 2nd or 3rd string PG. But I will partially agree with you...Barbosa may be a long shot.
About Carlos Arroyo and Raul Lopez, you are right...they are scrubs. ...but have you looked at the Jazz starting lineup? They no longer have a starting PG. One of these guys will be starting and therefore may be somewhat productive. Again....the potential for either of these two to be the starting PG and therefore worth a consideration.
Most would be a 2nd string ( at best ) and likely a 3rd string ( if at all ). But you never know what could happen. Remember, sleepers are just that...they may or may not do anything this year.....just someone to keep and eye out for.
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| 4 | C.C. Soldiers
ID: 49535621
Fri, Aug 15, 2003, 15:33
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Throw Mo Williams in the pack for PT @ PG with Utah.
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| 5 | F GUMP
ID: 352161623
Fri, Aug 22, 2003, 22:04
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In light of the Mavs-GS trade, you can revise the analysis of prospects from those 2 teams.
In your terminology Jamison will likely be Tier 2 for Mavs...I would add Fortson and Best as Sleepers... I would call LaFrentz a Sleeper - this is his 2nd year in Dallas and he has untapped potential (and with their new additions, there will be less pressure on him to try to do things he isnt good at, which could help him flourish)...Bradley? Unless you are in a league that awards medals for Blocks (or awkwardness!) I would avoid him like the plague.
On GS, Dunleavy definitely jumps up a notch with his new starting slot. Is he Tier 2 now? ....Van Exel certainly could be Tier 2: his numbers should jump a bunch this year in GS.
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| 6 | CableKMC
ID: 287381412
Mon, Aug 25, 2003, 17:34
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Okay....in my opinion, here is what I think:
Warriors
1st Tier - ????
2nd Tier - Nick Van Exel, Speedy Claxton, Mike Dunleavy, Jason Richardson, Troy Murphy
3rd Tier - Cliff Robinson, Erick Dampier, Adonal Folye
Sleeper - Mickael Pietrus
I am more inclined to say that Van Exel is the best option on the Warriors. With the amount of scoring and assists that he will put up, he could be considered a #1 option to trade for. Dunleavy is definitely worth a consideration at the beginning of the season.
Mavs
1st Tier - Dirk Nowitzki
2nd Tier - Michael Finley, Steve Nash
3rd Tier - Antawn Jamison, Shawn Bradley, Raef Lafrentz
Sleeper - Danny Fortson
I agree with you on Jamison. Primarily known for his scoring and rebounding, being the 3rd/4th option on a team like the Mavs, he probably won't do too well from a Smallworld perspective. As for Bradley, there was that stretch run early season where he actually put up real decent numbers...and then faded for whatever reason. As for LaFrentz (in my opinion), I don't think that LaFrentz has any more untapped potential. The guy has been in the league for years and we pretty much knows what he is ( and is not ) capable of. I suspect that whatever production we got out of him last year is what we would expect this year....which wasn't too much.....unless some Eastern team picks him up. And for Fortson, if Nelson actually uses him.....who knows, he may become more of a Rodman type Smallworld player where he pulls down boards and not much else.
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| 7 | CableKMC
ID: 287381412
Tue, Aug 26, 2003, 14:17
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Okay...now that it looks like Lamar Odom is heading out of ClipperLand and headed for RileyLand....how does this change the 2 teams?
Clippers
1st Tier - Elton Brand
2nd Tier - Corey Maggette, Quentin Richardson
3rd Tier - Marko Jaric,
Sleeper - Melvin Ely, Keyon Dooling, Chris Wilcox
Qball may finally be able to show us what he is capable of. I would suspect that that would up the productivity of both Corey Maggette and Marko Jaric since they will be able to touch the ball more often and make more shots.
Heat
1st Tier - ???
2nd Tier - Caron Butler, Brian Grant, Eddie Jones, Lamar Odom
3rd Tier - Malik Allen, Vladimir Stephania
Sleeper - Dwyane Wade, Rasual Butler
Huge@$$ mess of SF/SG playing now on the Heat. Rumor is that Eddie Jones may finally be traded to fill whatever need remains ( maybe PG or more frontcourt help? ). How would this trade affect Odom? I think because the Heat have had issues with scoring....perhaps Odom may score as much ( if not more ) compared to what he put up in LA. I thought I heard that Riley may play him as a Point Forward which may mean an increase in Assists. Of course, this is assuming that Odom actually plays like the way that he is supposed to play and stays on the straight and narrow.
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| 8 | JerryLewis
ID: 2971259
Tue, Aug 26, 2003, 14:35
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Odom should grow some hair. He's one of the ugliest bald guys in the league in my opinion.
Doesn't work for him. Not as bad as Sam Cassell though. :)
He also is gonna have to find a new pot supplier down in Miami or his game may suffer. :)
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| 9 | Janitor
ID: 497432711
Wed, Aug 27, 2003, 14:22
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Good topic CableKMC and good picks. I was bored so I did my picks for the Midwest and Atlantic Divisions.
BOS - 1st: Pierce, Walker 2nd: none 3rd: Battie sleeper: Banks
MIA - 1st: none 2nd: Jones, Odom, Butler, Grant 3rd: none sleeper: Wade
NJ - 1st: Kidd 2nd: Martin, Jefferson, Mourning 3rd: Kittles sleeper: none
NY - 1st: none 2nd: McDyess, Houston, Van Horn, Thomas 3rd: Eisley, Ward sleeper: Sweetney
ORL - 1st: McGrady 2nd: Howard 3rd Gooden sleepers: Lue, Gaines, Pachulia
PHI - 1st: Iverson 2nd: Robinson, Thomas, Snow 3rd: Coleman, McKie sleepers: none
WAS - 1st: none 2nd: Stackhouse, Arenas 3rd: Hughes, Laettner sleepers: Brown, Jeffries, Hayes
DAL - 1st: Nowitzki, Nash 2nd: Finley, Jamison 3rd: LaFrentz, Bradley sleepers: Fortson
DEN - 1st: none 2nd: Anthony, Miller, Nene 3rd: Camby sleepers: Tskitishivili, White
HOU - 1st: Francis 1st/2nd: Yao (gotta give some love to my favorite player ;))2nd: Mobley 3rd: E Griffin sleepers: none
MEM - 1st: Gasol 2nd: Williams 3rd: Miller, Posey,Battier, Swift sleepers: none
MIN - 1st Garnett 2nd: Cassell, Sreewell, Szcerbiak 3rd: Olowakand, Hudson sleeper: none
SAS - 1st: Duncan 2nd: Parker 3rd: Nesterovic, Rose sleeper: Turkoglu
UTA: 1st: none 2nd: Kirilinko, Harpring 3rd: Clark (could be sleeper also) sleepers: Lopez, Stevenson, Arroyo, Jackson
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| 10 | F GUMP
ID: 352161623
Thu, Aug 28, 2003, 11:31
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CABLE....re LaFrentz, the "untapped potential" is in the fact that although he has been in the league for years, his performance dropped off in Dallas. Thus, the question is: does he have ability that went unused in Dallas, or not?
He has only been in Dallas one year, so it may be that he didnt find the right way to utilize his skills in the Dallas system. In which case, maybe he gets better this year - or maybe he doesnt.
He was in Denver 4 years, and his per-game averages there were approx:
13.5 points, 7.8 rebs, 2.5 blocks, in 30 minutes
What he did in Dallas in yr 1 per game was:
9.3 points, 4.8 rebs, 1.3 blocks, in 24 minutes
Dallas wanted and hoped for and probably expected they could get the Denver numbers from him. They certainly have space for him to do those numbers: he sat a lot last year cause he was VERY sucky at times. (He also at times would pick up fouls in bunches, which would force him to sit). If he "develops" (back into the player he was at Denver), particularly in Rebounding, then Dallas will likely give him MORE minutes and also he will jump in Fantasy Value. (Notice that last years numbers were about 2/3 of his career avgs from Denver: thus, if he just does his "career average" this year, he has a 50% jump in production)
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| 11 | CableKMC
ID: 87232913
Fri, Aug 29, 2003, 14:35
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F GUMP,
I sort of agree with you. Of course he has the potential to go back to his former self during his days at Denver....but doing a quick analysis of his performance in Dallas this last year:
9.3 points, 4.8 rebs, 1.3 blocks, in 24 minutes
It is unlikely his scoring and rebounding will go up especially with Jamison in the rotation.
I don't doubt that he has potential to revert back to his old ways. Its more that he has yet to prove ( although it is in 1 year ) that he can be a worthy fantasy 2nd option in a Dallas rotation where he is the 5 scoring option and is considerably weak in Rebounding for a Starting Center.
LaFrentz would probably do quite well on a team in the East that doesn't have rebounding, such as the Heat or Bucks.
For now, until he increases his minutes on the Mavs and is not splitting time with Bradley...he will be a solid 3rd option to me....unless he is really really cheap ( as in < 2 Mil ).
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| 12 | F GUMP
ID: 352161623
Fri, Aug 29, 2003, 16:40
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A couple of notes re LaFrentz...
First of all, the presence of Jamison on the roster isnt likely to CUT his minutes. He should get 24 this year per game, or close to it. Note also, if his game play gets BETTER, he might actually get MORE minutes than last year. Additionally, by having other players who can get a rebound on the floor, it should actually make it EASIER for him to get boards when he plays (this I know from playing basketball for years).
Second, I dont see him as a 2nd tier guy (unless, as you say, he gets traded to the East - which doesnt appear likely), but I do see him as a Sleeper (ie an overlooked bargain, potentially). To me, Sleeper and Good Bargain are the same thing.
Third, yes he "has yet to prove" that he can do more numbers in Dallas - which is why I called him a Sleeper or someone with untapped potential. From watching a slew of Mavs games last year, there were times he played very well - and other times he was just in his own world. The Mavs have the desire, and offensive sets, and the hopes, for him to do Denver numbers. In some games he did, and even more.
Here is my reasoning: When you go to a new team, it takes time to adjust, to fit in, to learn where your shots will be in that offense, to fill the holes on the court to get rebounds, etc. He has the potential to be a better player than his numbers from last year, cause he did it for 4 years in Denver. And at times last year, he did that level and more, for a game here and a game there. Thus, just like a YOUNG player who is new to the NBA, he has to become more consistent. And since he was a Better Player in Denver, for a 4 year stretch, than he showed last year in Dallas, it is apparent that he has the POTENTIAL merely by repeating previous numbers - and thus be underpriced and a Sleeper in fantasy leagues this year.
I dont know if it will happen or not - we will have to see when the season plays out. How good might he be? If he merely plays up to his Denver production, he will improve by 50% - and thus be a bargain. Remember, in Denver, he was a main cog, and there were few other threats - in Dallas, he will NEVER have to worry about double teams or defensive focus from the opponents.
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| 13 | samuli
ID: 8510276
Sat, Aug 30, 2003, 08:56
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On a related note, does anyone remember when did the TSN-game launch last year? Can't wait no more!
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| 14 | Rubalamp
ID: 6615911
Sat, Aug 30, 2003, 22:23
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I believe it was late september, around the 25th or so I think...
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| 15 | Taxman
Leader
ID: 388241323
Sun, Sep 14, 2003, 20:29
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F Gump...nice analysis
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| 16 | Punk42AE
ID: 1385748
Mon, Sep 15, 2003, 14:10
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I think Darko is more of a sleeper over Prince in Det. Prince had a good last few games and then postseason. Darko most likely won't get into the games that much this year, unless he shows someting really awesome. He won't be like a Yao that will be allowed to grow in the game his first year.
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