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0 Subject: Social Network Wars

Posted by: Boldwin
- [17082720] Fri, Jan 28, 2011, 02:41

The muslim world is currently awash in social network vacilitated revolutionary activities. No one knows really what's behind it AFAIK. First Tunisia fell and countries are shutting down their internets to stop these from boiling over if that helps.

My guess is that these are organized al qeada manuevers to create a world-wide caliphate but for all I know these are neocon predicted genuine strikes for freedom from authoritarianism common in the muslim world.

Let's be some of the first to nail this down.
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649Boldwin
      ID: 365471111
      Wed, Jun 12, 2013, 03:05
15 million Egyptians sign an anti-Morsi petition, more people than voted for Morsi when he won. Extraordinarily brave of them. If I read it correctly they are indeed taking steps to show the names to the court and hide them from Morsi.

Presumably the 140,000 tear gas canisters Obama sent Morsi will be enuff to contain them.
650Boldwin
      ID: 50591616
      Sun, Jun 16, 2013, 17:09
Take them at their word.

651Boldwin
      ID: 57519186
      Tue, Jun 18, 2013, 22:37
Turkey's Islamist president racking up a casualty list: 7,822 injured, 59 serious condition. 4 lost lives,11 lost eyesight"

No complaints from Obama.
652Boldwin
      ID: 195432220
      Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 21:43
Nothing like a sunni/shiite religious war prelude to a world war.
“waves of Egyptians” are pouring into Syria to join the fight against the Assad regime and its allies, Hezbollah and Iran. The Egyptians in question are “fired by the virulently sectarian rhetoric of Sunni preachers” who are “call[ing] for jihad.” In other words, the Egyptians pouring into Syria are Islamic jihadists.
653Boldwin
      ID: 195432220
      Sat, Jun 22, 2013, 22:13
Would someone please remind the president of the War Powers Act?
we have no vital interests in the outcome of Syria’s civil war. Both sides are our enemies. Assad has neither attacked nor threatened to attack the United States. Consequently, waging war against the Syrian regime is wholly a matter of choice. That is a choice that, in our constitutional system, cries out for congressional authorization. Without congressional authorization – without a demonstration that the American people’s representatives are satisfied that American interests call for waging an unprovoked war against the Assad regime – there should be no American intervention.

Thanks to Republican Senators Rand Paul (of Kentucky) and Mike Lee (of Utah), we might finally get on Syria what we were denied on Libya: a real debate among the American people’s representatives over congressional authorization of President Obama’s unilateral war-making in the Middle East.

The Washington Examiner reports that Senators Paul and Lee have joined with two counterparts, Democrats Chris Murphy (of Connecticut) and Tom Udall (of New Mexico), in offering legislation that would block direct or indirect aid for military or paramilitary operations in Syria. The bill, which is posted on Paul’s website, is called the “Protecting Americans from the Proliferation of Weapons to Terrorists Act of 2013.”

The proposal would not affect or prohibit humanitarian aid, but it forthrightly addresses the issue Syria intervention supporters willfully ignore: the factions President Obama is abetting – egged on by the GOP’s McCain wing and their fellow transnational progressives on the Democratic side of the aisle – are Islamic supremacists dominated by the Muslim Brotherhood and closely connected to violent jihadists, including al Qaeda-affiliated groups.

As John Rosenthal acutely observes in his short but essential book The Jihadist Plot: The Untold Story of Al-Qaeda and the Libyan Rebellion, while there are many problems with using the label “war on terror” to describe our ongoing hostilities, “at least the term had the advantage of making clear that the US and its allies abhorred the tactic in question.” Yet, in Libya, and now in Syria, we have turned a blind eye to the fact that terrorism is used by the jihadists our government has chosen to side with. We try to obscure this fact by referring to the opposition forces as “rebels,” the better to avoid noticing that they consider themselves mujahideen (jihad warriors), and by pretending we favor only the “secular” “moderates,” though it is laughable to suggest there are enough of them to topple the regimes in question without allying with the more numerous and formidable Islamic-supremacists factions.

This is a disgraceful state of affairs. For many years after their enactment in 1996, the material-support-to-terrorism laws, which prohibit and severely punish any abetting of terrorist organizations and their savage methods, were foundational to American counterterrorism. They have been a staple of anti-terrorism prosecutions and of the policy shift designed to prevent terrorist attacks from happening (by starving jihadist cells of resources) rather than content ourselves to prosecute only after suffering attacks. At least as importantly, material support statutes also proclaimed our moral position: any organization that resorted to terrorism is the enemy of humanity, regardless of its cause and regardless of what humanitarian activities the organization purports to carry out. Now, no matter how much government officials deny it, our government is endorsing what we went to war to defeat. Our government is materially supporting terroriststhe very conduct it prosecutes and imprisons American citizens for committing.
654Boldwin
      ID: 315483017
      Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 21:03

Egyptian anti-Morsi protests...carrying 'Obama Supports Terrorism' signs btw.



As he well and truly does.
655Boldwin
      ID: 315483017
      Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 21:15


The demonstrators maintain Morsi has become a power-hungry autocrat who is intent on making the Muslim Brotherhood Egypt’s permanent ruling party.

They also blame the Obama administration and U.S. Ambassador to Egypt Anne Patterson for propping up Morsi and facilitating the Muslim Brotherhood’s power grab.

“We are very critical of the Obama administration because they have been supporting the Brotherhood like no one has ever supported them,” Shadi Al Ghazali Harb, a 24-year-old member of Egypt’s Revolutionary Youth Coalition, told the Washington Free Beacon on Friday afternoon during a telephone interview from Cairo.

The White House is “the main supporter of the Brotherhood,” he said. “If it wasn’t for the American support this president would have fallen months ago.”

Al Ghazali Harb specifically dubbed Patterson “the first enemy of the revolution,” claiming “she is hated even more than Morsi.”

---

Fouad predicted that if Morsi’s Muslim Brotherhood survives these protests they will likely “survive anything.”

USA ambassador Paterson:

656Boldwin
      ID: 315483017
      Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 21:18
657Boldwin
      ID: 315483017
      Sun, Jun 30, 2013, 21:19
In every Egyptian city btw, not just Cairo.
658Boldwin
      ID: 29621113
      Mon, Jul 01, 2013, 16:25
USA's ambassador actively discouraging the anti-Morsi protesters...
The June 18 edition of Sadi al-Balad reports that lawyer Ramses Naggar, the Coptic Church's legal counsel, said that during Patterson's June 17 meeting with Pope Tawadros, she "asked him to urge the Copts not to participate" in the demonstrations against Morsi and the Brotherhood.

---

Indeed, the U.S. ambassador's position as the Brotherhood's lackey is disturbing—and revealing—on several levels. First, all throughout the Middle East, the U.S. has been supporting anyone and everyone opposing their leaders—in Libya against Gaddafi, in Egypt itself against 30-year U.S. ally Mubarak, and now in Syria against Assad. In all these cases, the U.S. has presented its support in the name of the human rights and freedoms of the people against dictatorial leaders.

So why is the Obama administration now asking Christians not to oppose their rulers—in this case, Islamists—who have daily proven themselves corrupt and worse, to the point that millions of Egyptians, most of them Muslims, are trying to oust them?

---

Among other things, under Morsi's rule, the persecution of Copts has practically been legalized, as unprecedented numbers of Christians—men, women, and children—have been arrested, often receiving more than double the maximum prison sentence, under the accusation that they "blasphemed" Islam and/or its prophet. It was also under Morsi's reign that another unprecedented scandal occurred: the St. Mark Cathedral—holiest site of Coptic Christianity and headquarters to Pope Tawadros himself—was besieged in broad daylight by Islamic rioters. When security came, they too joined in the attack on the cathedral. And the targeting of Christian children—for abduction, ransom, rape, and/or forced conversion—has also reached unprecedented levels under Morsi. (For more on the plight of the Copts under Morsi's rule, see my new book Crucified Again: Exposing Islam's New War on Christians.)

Yet despite the fact that if anyone in Egypt has a legitimate human rights concern against the current Egyptian government, it most certainly is the Christian Copts, here is the U.S., in the person of Ms. Patterson, asking them not to join the planned protests.

In other words, and consistent with Obama administration doctrine, when Islamists—including rapists and cannibals—wage jihad on secular leaders, the U.S. supports them; when Christians protest Islamist rulers who are making their lives a living hell, the administration asks them to "know their place" and behave like dhimmis, Islam's appellation for non-Muslim "infidels" who must live as third class "citizens" and never complain about their inferior status. - by Raymond Ibrahim
FrontPageMagazine.com
Read the whole thing
659Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Mon, Jul 01, 2013, 18:53
Read the whole thing

I stopped at

the U.S. ambassador's position as the Brotherhood's lackey


660Pancho Villa
      ID: 59645318
      Mon, Jul 01, 2013, 19:33
CAIRO—Thousands of protesters erupted into cheers after Egypt's military leaders warned that they would intervene if the president failed to resolve a political crisis within 48 hours, raising the prospect of a military coup a day after millions of Egyptians thronged the country's streets demanding the president's resignation.

A person close to President Mohammed Morsi said by text message that the presidency considers the military's announcement tantamount to a military coup and that the military wouldn't have announced the ultimatum without the blessing of the Obama administration.
link

Posted for those interested in sources with a hint of journalistic integrity.
661Perm Dude
      ID: 24625213
      Tue, Jul 02, 2013, 14:25
It is just sad that the Right of this country now supports the military coup of a democratically elected government in Egypt, simply because they hope it will hurt our Democratic President here in the US.
662Pancho Villa
      ID: 40610217
      Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 15:43
Morsi and the Brotherhood out in Egypt

So much for the Muslim Brotherhood spearheading a worldwide caliphate. They can't even hold on to power in Egypt.
663Biliruben
      ID: 358252515
      Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 16:21
Usually the fear peddlers pick outcomes that take much longer to demonstrate to their sheep how full of chicken poop they are. I'm sure Baldwin will lament being duped and promise to start thinking for himself immediately.
664Perm Dude
      ID: 24625213
      Wed, Jul 03, 2013, 17:03
Somehow Obama is (still) to blame for this. I suspect the Tea Party will pivot and say "Obama didn't support a democratically-elected government, despite all his teleprompter work!!"
665Boldwin
      ID: 463545
      Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 07:10
Hey, sometimes Reagan wins, too.

I've seen enuff not to expect rainbows and pots of gold this side of God's Kingdom.

They've escaped the MB for a day now and counting. The Egyptian army and 2 million people willing to risk their life in the street protesting people who crucify their enemies have delivered themselves a sliver of hope. If they can hang on to it.
666sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 09:23
Yes B, Egypt has done away with the most moderate govt it has seen in 40+ years and now the extremists are back in charge, and now you are applauding. Nice.
667Perm Dude
      ID: 24625213
      Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 13:13
Don't you know, sarge: Any democratically-elected government which supports Barack Obama deserves to be overthrown by its military.
668sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 13:50
*head slap* d'oh of course! WTF was I thinking? *head desk*
669Boldwin
      ID: 42637423
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 00:37
We have a new contender for 'Most A@@backwards Post Ever'.

Sarge#666

Well he even picked his favorite number. Destiny.
670Boldwin
      ID: 436053
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 04:01
Seriously Sarge, Morsi's thugs sexually assault protestors in front of the presidential palace when they aren't crucifying them, and then they go off and burn down a church during services or kidnap christian children and you think these guys are more moderate than during the Mubarak regime?

You have one hella evil agenda there.
671Mith
      ID: 412561115
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 08:26
While I won't succumb to Boldy's hyperbole (yes I'm aware of rampant sexual assaults but I refuse to oversimplify a chaotic mess by attributing them personally to Morsi) from my perspective this week's uprising was just as valid as the one that eventually ousted Mubarak.

Morsi did not appear to be any friend of democracy or committed to peace in the region. From what I saw he came in and in a few months inserted himself as dictator, literally usurped the drafting of Egypt's new constitution (not in the tea party mouth breather "Obama tramples the constitution" sense but as in he stepped well outside his authority to oust sitting judges and replace them with others who are willing to further his constitutional agenda).

After walking back some of those decrees, two weeks ago he inserted Egypt into the Syrian conflict.

This isn't what a majority of Egyptians seems to have voted for. Now, back when Mubarak was kicked out we knew there were any number of ways this could go and that a storybook ending where Egyptians skip happily off into the centuries in blissful democracy and peace was not among the more likely outcomes. But Morsi turned out much worse than I'd hoped and I'm not so sure at all that I'd call him any more generally "moderate" than Mubarak.

I don't see why I shouldn't be happy to see them assert for themselves (with the help of the military) another crack at democracy, hopefully one in which many voters will rethink the priorities applied in their previous ballots.
672sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 09:01
No, nor did I call Morsi a moderate. I said it was the most moderate Egypt had seen in 4+ decades, and that is absolutely true. He wasnt moderate per se, but he was a step in the right direction.
673Mith
      ID: 412561115
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 09:38
Sarge

Really depends on your definition of moderate, doesn't it? I dont think I said you called Morsi a moderate, I was challenging your notion that he is necessarily more moderate than the Mubarak regime was.

Sure, Morsi's version of democracy (presumably where the people get to choose between candidates selected by Morsi's wing of the MB) is slightly more democratic than Mubarak's (where the people get to choose Mubarak) but the Mubarak regime did seem genuinely committed to peace in the region (even if it wast due to western influence) and riding the fence between secular and Islamist influences.

I'm also at a loss for why you regard the military as "extremists".
674sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 10:06
I guess it depends on how much faith you put into what is being said BY the Egyptian military. They have since the 80s, seen their political influence greatly decline, and it was not to their collective liking. Anytime I see a military coup, I have nagging doubts over it. Was Morsi a "godsend"? Hell no. Was he even "better" than Mubarak? I dont know, and I'm not sure we had time enough to be able to honestly gauge. I find it extreme, anytime the actual winner of an election, is deposed. (Assuming of course, the ballot had more than one name on it and the election was relatively fair and open.)
675Mith
      ID: 412561115
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 10:29
Maybe Im remembering it wrong but wasn't Mubarak's ouster accomplished through military coup? One which saw the military cede power to a transitional government?
676sarge33rd
      ID: 4609710
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 10:37
Or am I misremembering? I will admit, I didnt "refresh" my memories via research before posting.
677Pancho Villa
      ID: 40610217
      Fri, Jul 05, 2013, 10:42
A lot of it boils down to economics. Morsi needed to put the ideology aside and concentrate on retaining the foreign investment that Egypt relies upon for a relatively stable society.

The MB showed it didn't have the goods when it came to actually governing, which led to widespread dissatisfaction even among those who supported and voted for them a year ago.
678Seattle Zen
      ID: 3603123
      Mon, Jul 08, 2013, 11:11
“This is how it is with a revolution,” said Rania Azab, a news media adviser for Mr. ElBaradei, 71, who insisted late Saturday that he had been chosen to form an interim cabinet. “You have to bear with us.”

Cracks Emerge as Egyptians Seek Premier

In general, I do not support military coups of democratically elected official governments, but... let's not forget that Egypt's government is brand new, it's constitution is a work in progress and, most importantly, Morsi's group of clowns ignored the judiciary and the rule of law. Simply because the majority of the slackjawed country folk voted for the MB does not give them license to toss aside provisions in the constitution that they don't care for. It became obvious to all that the MB were in WAY over their heads when it came to actual governance, as PV pointed out. We can all hope that the next government respects minority rights.
679Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 21:23
Just a reminder which of us always gets it right and which of us are stary-eyed naive dreamers.
680Pancho Villa
      ID: 2131916
      Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 22:10
Just a reminder which of us always gets it right and which of us are stary-eyed naive dreamers.
Well, I don't always get it right, but thanks anyway. Had it right in #549.


From Boldwin #499
All Morsi needs to do is keep firing military commanders until he gets down to the ones loyal to the MB.

PV - It's more likely that it's just a matter of time before the military decides to take matters into its own hands and replace Morsi altogether.



681Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 22:13
It was a very close call and this situation is not safe and secure. Any American friendly government in today's middle east is walking a tightrope.

BTW what a shame the president of Egypt is more sane and pro-American than the USA president.
682Pancho Villa
      ID: 2131916
      Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 22:26
Well, Mr Always right except when you're not, I gladly leave this thread with your embarrassing admission of obsessive hatred for your president, who made the following sane, pro-American statement today.

"The president explained that these and other steps will help refine our military assistance relationship so that it is better positioned to address the shared challenges to US and Egyptian interests in an unstable region, consistent with the longstanding strategic partnership between our two countries," the White House said in a statement detailing the call between the two leaders.
683Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 22:45
...Said the president who immediately discontinued military aid to Egypt in a fit of pique when his Islamist MB were deposed by the pro-American Egyptian military.
684Pancho Villa
      ID: 2131916
      Tue, Mar 31, 2015, 23:10
Incorrect.. In October 2013, the Obama Administration said it would halt the delivery of some large military systems to the Egyptian government until it saw advances towards democracy.

Hey, wrong again.
685Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Wed, Apr 01, 2015, 03:32
Oh, but they thot the MB had been democratic enuff?

My point.
686Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 05:55


Americans would do well to recall
the sequence of events that led to Japan’s attack on the United States at Pearl Harbor and America’s entry into the Second World War. In 1941, the United States imposed a near-total embargo on oil shipments to Japan to punish its aggression on the Asian mainland. Unfortunately, Washington drastically underestimated how Japan would respond.
~~~
COULD A U.S. response to Russia’s actions in Ukraine provoke a confrontation that leads to a U.S.-Russian war? Such a possibility seems almost inconceivable. But when judging something to be “inconceivable,” we should always remind ourselves that this is a statement not about what is possible in the world, but about what we can imagine.

687Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Mon, Apr 20, 2015, 21:08
Best revelation of ISIS structure ever.
688Boldwin
      ID: 112382716
      Tue, Apr 21, 2015, 07:28
Irresponsible world leaders, policy makers, war planners, think tankers, 'intelligence services' of all sides, etc have been playing an out of control dangerous kind of 3D chess beyond the ken of the public/average voters. Meet 4G and 5G warfare.
The U.S., British, Canadian and other Western military training of Ukrainian forces that include neo-Nazi gangsters from Ukraine and other parts of Europe and the NATO/CIA training support in Turkey and Jordan being provided to Islamist jihadis tied to the Islamic State, Al Nusra Front, and Al Qaeda represents the application of 4th generation warfare (4GW) and 5th generation warfare (5GW) tactics from the Pentagon’s and Central Intelligence Agency’s think tanks to the battlefield.

The use of 4GW/5GW primarily involves the use of what are known as “violent non-state actors” (VNSAs). In the case of Ukraine, these VNSAs have become, with the integration of neo-Nazi battalions into the regular Ukrainian army, “violent state-supported actors”, or VSSAs.

The concept of 4GW was first drawn up by a gang of Pentagon war college types in the late 1980s to describe a post-Cold War threat of insurgents like VNSAs in failed states. After honing the war concept of 4GW, the world now faces groups like ISIL and its various spin-offs which have nested in failed states like Yemen, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya — all thanks to U.S. military and intelligence intervention by Republican and Democratic U.S. administrations — and threaten regional and global stability.

The appointment of neo-Nazi Ukrainian militia leader Dmytro Yarosh to be an advisor to Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces Viktor Muzhenko and the integration of neo-Nazi militia gangsters into the Ukrainian army is a clear-cut example of VNSAs being transformed into VSSAs. This also represents a move by the CIA and NATO from 4GW to the much more dangerous 5GW, in which criminal syndicates, computer hackers, and state-supported terrorists play significant roles. Yarosh played a significant part in the “Euromaidan” uprising, which overthrew the elected Ukrainian government in a coup d’état in early 2014.
We've gone from a time recently when we simply thot that controlling terrorism would be as simple as forcing states to declare opposition to terrorism or be declared the enemy...[ie giving 'non-state' actors aka terrorists no place to hide]...

...till now barely a decade later using numerous non-state quasi-terrorist actors as if they were chess pieces we could manipulate for our own advantage.

This is just out of control. Dangerous. Unstable. As if it weren't already trouble enuff that there is now a largely unopposed defacto-state in ISIS openly stating it's goal of conquering the world...

...our own planners [among others] are pursuing dangerous strategies that invite WWIII provoking incidents and terrorist warfare around the world.

If we sabotaged the economies of the West till they all looked like vulnerable houses of cards ready to fall, shook the cages of Russia and China till they responded unpredictably, begged Islam to rise up...we couldn't have done it better than we have been doing.


689Boldwin
      ID: 485770
      Sun, Jun 07, 2015, 10:11
Everything you need to know about CAIR.
CAIR files lawsuit to prevent ICE from asking Muslims entering US about jihad-related activities, relatives.
Tell me again how I'm an Islamophobe and CAIR is just an innocent and noble civil rights group.
690Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 12:49
Pretty much the definition of religious profiling. The problem is that people like Boldwin believe that is OK for people they don't like, and a massive infringement of rights for those they do like.
691Boldwin
      ID: 49572022
      Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 23:07
Actually I think it's perfectly fine if the government asks EVERYONE entering the country if they have any knowledge of anyone planning violent activities.

Protecting our lives is just about the only useful role the government has. Why shouldn't they take an interest? It's not like we have a privacy right to terrorism.
692Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sun, Jun 21, 2015, 11:51
That, of course, is not what they are doing.
693Boldwin
      ID: 49572022
      Sun, Jun 21, 2015, 12:05
I'm also A-OK with them asking a few more Somali's that question as opposed to 90YO Swedish grandmothers.
694Perm Dude
      ID: 431013412
      Sun, Jun 21, 2015, 13:13
If they were the same questions, sure. But the questions themselves are important, too.
695Bean
      ID: 14147911
      Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 15:25
In statistics, there is a concept of Type I and Type II errors. Type I is a basically a false alarm, and Type II is a failed detection. There is always a trade off when deciding where to set the threshold for detection.

Given the consequences of Type II errors over the consequences of Type I errors, what threshold for scrutiny of suspects would you suggest PD?
696biliruben
      ID: 561162511
      Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 17:05
TSA's poor record (sensitivity - or true positive rate) makes me think that even if they jailed and tortured every Somali (Massively jacking their rate of false positive), they would barely move the needle on their sensitivity.

So incredible levels of rights-infringement resulting in little result on the safety front (little improvement in sensitivity).

But it would have the result of the US being hardly discernible from our most demonized enemies.

If I have some time to waste, I'll post on ROC curve reflecting what I think the relationship is.
697Bean
      ID: 14147911
      Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 17:28
I look forward to the statistical analysis of TSA screening. Be careful not to fall into the same trap as GM engineers putting a price on human life as you apply the mathematics.

NO WIN
698biliruben
      ID: 28420307
      Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 23:08
It's a balance between potential lives lost and real, quantifiable freedoms, and if we go too far, our very way of life.

There's a quote out there somewhere about freedom and lives worth living, but I can't remember it.

Don't hold your breath on the TSA stat analysis. They appear neither to publish their minimal successes nor their substantial failures in any quantifiable form.
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