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Subject: The Real Sarah Palin
Posted by: Pancho Villa
- [51546319] Wed, Sep 03, 2008, 10:45
Probably deserves it's own thread ahead of her speech tonight at the GOP convention.
While talk of her high school daughter's pregnancy has taken center stage, it seems doubtful that that would have any real effect on the election.
However, her association with the Alaska Independent Party appears to be the kind of ammunition Democrats can use in the same way Republicans have used the Rev. Wright association to question Palin's patriotic sincerity. After all, when the founder of the AIP, Joe Vogler, states:
"I'm an Alaskan, not an American. I've got no use for America or her damned institutions."
how is that different than Wright's "God Damn America" quote?
It's different because Wright's quote is a soundbite and Vogler's is a party position, further evidence that McCain's vetting process was severly lacking. Does anyone really think McCain was aware of Sarah Palin's association(membership?) with an oranization that promotes Alaska's secession from the United States?
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| 816 | Tree
ID: 61411921 Thu, Mar 26, 2009, 12:42
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but she's Ronald Reagan in a skirt, and the savior of the Republican Party!!
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| 817 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Thu, Mar 26, 2009, 18:20
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Allahpundit at Hot Air:She said she meant no disrespect by it, but it’s hard to see how: “So I’m looking around for somebody to pray with, I just need maybe a little help, maybe a little extra… And the McCain campaign, love ‘em, you know, they’re a lot of people around me, but nobody I could find that I wanted to hold hands with and pray.” She ended up praying with Piper. Maybe she meant there was no one there with whom she felt close enough to share a moment like that? Anyway, I’m sure it’s all their fault for feeling insulted.“We all talked this A.M.,” said one former Palin aide in an e-mail. “This set off a nerve for sure with a lot of people.” “It’s yet another example of the few staff still loyal to Palin questioning their loyalty and ardent defense of her over the several months since the campaign,” said the aide, who was granted anonymity to speak candidly about campaign colleagues… “It’s about us people who were on the plane, who showed extreme loyalty to Palin, continually getting thrown under the bus or slapped in the face by her comments, whether she means it or not,” the staffer said, adding that Palin’s remarks “cause you to question not only your loyalty but her judgment as a leader.” The former aides said they place part of the blame for Palin’s post-campaign candor on the governor’s staff in Alaska. Several have reached out individually to offer advice or assistance to the governor, but “have gotten only pleasantries in response,” said one aide.
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| 818 | Boldwin
ID: 392192513 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 05:23
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OMG MITH, You can't see what's going on there?
The very people who hated Palin as a choice, who tried to stifle her and stuff her into the McCain box...
The very people who just couldn't contain themselves from muttering campaigns against her on the campaign trail...
The very same people today hoping to get her on the 'dump Rush and conservatism from the party' wing of the party...
They just don't feel the love? Are you kidding me???
Oh, they were loyal to her...
Oh, they've only now started to have reservations about her...
You have to have been born yesterday to buy that stuff.
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| 819 | Mith Dude
ID: 01629107 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 07:32
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The very people who hated Palin as a choice, who tried to stifle her and stuff her into the McCain box...
Funny how these people keep changing. First it was supposed to be the neocons who wanted to undermine her by planting negative stories. But then it turned out that it was neocons who recruited her in the first place and remain her most loyal supporters. Then it was supposed to be McCain's staffers. But these people were Palin staffers during the campaign - the onese who Palin supporters told us were credible when McCain staffers were went public with some of their gripes.
And of course I pulled that post from Michelle Malkin's blog, Hot Air.
Looks like any time anyone on the right takes an issue with Sarah Palin you'll always be able to dismiss them as The very people who just couldn't contain themselves from muttering campaigns against her on the campaign trail... How far will you be willing to compromise yourself for this woman whom you know so little about. This woman who was recruited by neocoms and has been called a moldable clean slate by Pat Buchanan.
Tell me, do you pigeonhole Peggy Noonam, who didn't like Palin as a choice, into your "'dunp conservatism from the party' wing of the party'? As further and further evidence emerges that Palin might not quite deserve all the conservative cred that the desperate right has attributed her, will you stand with the conservatives who ask the honest questions or will you stand with the cutesy wink and the proud neocons who have molded her into one of their own as you covered your eyes and continued to fawn?
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| 820 | Boldwin
ID: 392192513 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 07:35
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But then it turned out that it was neocons who recruited her in the first place and remain her most loyal supporters.
Wow, you actually were born yesterday. The neocons were just using her as conservative camoflage for their candidate.
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| 821 | Boldwin
ID: 392192513 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 07:44
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Further if you read your own link in it's entirety and carefully you will see they themselves admit to being confused about who these anonymous insiders actually are so I don't know where you get off being so sure.
Peggy Noonan is another matter. I think she has just gotten a bit to cozy with Washington insiders. Happens to the best of them if they are not extremely careful.
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| 822 | Mith Dude
ID: 01629107 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 08:12
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The neocons were just using her as conservative camoflage for their candidate.
So William Kristol went to Alaska in 2007 to recruit Palin to the GOP presidential ticket that wouldn't be formed for well over a year? Yeah, I guess I was born yesterday to not have figured that out.
if you read your own link in it's entirety and carefully you will see they themselves admit to being confused about who these anonymous insiders actually are so I don't know where you get off being so sure.
HAA! Who's "being so sure"? You're the one who claims to know exactly who these people are - I mean, you did write post 818, not me, right?
Peggy Noonan is another matter. I think she has just gotten a bit to cozy with Washington insiders.
Amazing. You will toss aside a conservativbe with unquestionable bona-fides - one who you are on record here as saying you just might prefer to Saint Ronald himself - for an unproven neocon recruited empty shirt with a flirty smile and for whom questions about what periodicals she reads are not fair game.
Who needs a thread about what has gone wrong with the Republican Party?
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| 823 | Seattle Zen
ID: 532222711 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 13:23
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for an unproven neocon recruited empty shirt
Actually, she turns the "empty shirt" cliche on its head. Her shirt was the one thing that wasn't empty. As she was so proud to point out as a beauty pageant contestant, "I may be broke, but I'm not flat busted..." It should have said, "I may be dim..."
Her fifteen minutes of fame is over, though I could see her begging to be added to season 17 of Dancing with the Stars after getting obliterated in the Alaskan gubernatorial Republican primary in 2010.
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| 824 | Baldwin
ID: 122332717 Fri, Mar 27, 2009, 19:52
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Mith
Exactly what is contradictory between my saying 'The neocons were just using her as conservative camoflage for their candidate', and Bill Kristol tapping Palin as cover for the atrocious McCain.
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| 825 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 10:29
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The issue isn't one of contradiction, it's that Palin has been the apple of Bill Kristol's eye since the middle of 2007. If you recall, McCain's camaign was in total shambles at that time. His fund raising was in the dumpster, in July he let go of dozens of campaign staffers and his campaign manager, chief strategist, commmunications director and other key figures had resigned and the chair of his crucial FL campaign had been arrested for soliciting a prostitute. At the time - no one was seeking to camoflage the neocon (I can go with that) McCain.
Perhaps it's your opinion that Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee (all of whom enjoyed stints as front--runner between mid 2007 and very early 2008, I believe) are all neocons anyway and that Palin's neocon suitors felt they needed her to camoflage whichever neocon was left standing at the end of the primary season.
Whatever revision you come up with to justify your reasoning here, my point is that when Barnes wrote this column in the Weekly Standard no one thought McCain would be on the ticket a year later.
They fell in love with her because they recognized the potential in her exterior charisma to electrify the base and that her rightist sensibilities were still unrefined enough that she would be maleable. You think other factions on the right haven't realized the same thing?
To the power-brokers on the right, the best thing about Palin is that the base is so taken by her that despite how little they really know about the finer points of her politics (including how much they have even been formed yet) they have already annointed her "Reagan in a skirt"! Talk about setting yourself up for disappointment, not to mention providing fodder for the left when the inevitable letdown comes.
The funniest part of this is that you (the pro-Palin right) have created in her a likeness of your own characature of Barack Obama. A political neophyte to whom you have prematurely (and quite liberally) attributed greatness and even the acclamation of savior of the party. Sound familiar?
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| 826 | Boxman
ID: 571114225 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 11:12
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Perhaps it's your opinion that Romney, Giuliani and Huckabee (all of whom enjoyed stints as front--runner between mid 2007 and very early 2008, I believe) are all neocons anyway and that Palin's neocon suitors felt they needed her to camoflage whichever neocon was left standing at the end of the primary season.
For anyone who believes such, what is neo-conservative about Romney?
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| 827 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 11:46
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Boxman
what is neo-conservative about Romney
I've never been given a reason to so categorize him, tho I will admit that I'm not familiar enough with his foreign policy particulars to define him.
But B's definition of neocon is some dumbed down notion of liberal in conservative guise so it's not difficult to imagine him squeezing Romney into that box. Romney's conservative cred is probably most notably challenged by the excessive recent flip/flopping it took for him to win a governorship and execute the office in a northeastern liberal state and then change gears sufficiently to run for the GOP's presidential nomination. Funny thing about that is that the flip flop is a bugaboo created by the short-term-thinking political right to combat John Kerry in 2004. Y'all clearly didn't think your best 2012 (and probably 2008) presidential candidate to emerge in the next 5 years would (really) be a worse flip/flopper than your exaggerations about John Kerry.
But for anyone who knows what the word means, flip/flopping from a handful of more left-leaning positions doesn't make him a neocon, whether or not Baldwin or anyone else would take that tract.
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| 828 | Boxman
ID: 571114225 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 15:44
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Just curious. I think Romney being a GOP nominee sometime in the future is a foregone conclusion. If Obama can't get the economy turned around Romney could very well be the nominee in 2012 and perhaps the next President.
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| 829 | Baldwin
ID: 122332717 Sat, Mar 28, 2009, 16:15
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The word RINO would spring to mind when I think Romney, not neocon.
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| 830 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 10:47
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Our would-be vice presodent: Gov. Sarah Palin and the head of the Alaska Republican Party said Thursday that Sen. Mark Begich should give his Senate seat up to a special election now that prosecutors have abandoned their case against Ted Stevens. "Alaskans deserve to have a fair election not tainted by some announcement that one of the candidates was convicted fairly of seven felonies, when in fact it wasn't a fair conviction," Palin said in a Thursday interview with the Daily News.
The governor said she does not want to "split hairs" on whether Begich should resign or not but agrees with the Republican Party's call for a special election. !
So now that it's possible that a few thousand Alaskan voters could potentially return to the misconception that Stevens it not a crook - we should void the electiuon we had in November and call a do-over!
Oh and, hey, lets not parse over such trivial minutia as whether the duly elected Senator should resign. It's just not that important.
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| 831 | Razor
ID: 371502414 Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 11:38
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Jesus, Palin is a f*$&ing idiot.
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| 832 | Tree
ID: 24329813 Wed, Apr 08, 2009, 14:33
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the Palin-Johnston feud...
"I think when (Sarah Palin) got back is when it went downhill," (Levi Johnston) said. "They don't think of me the same way anymore."
Johnston also said he was "heartbroken" when the relationship ended but added "I got an amazing little boy out of it."
Johnston's sister Mercede, also taking part in the interview, was even harsher in her assessment of the Palins, saying they are downright "snobby."
"Look what they are doing," she said. "They are lying trying to save themselves. They are the ones that asked for it. They brought him to the campaign. They should have known what was coming."
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| 833 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, Apr 18, 2009, 11:04
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One of the right's fastest rising stars, pundit Reihan Salam: Months before Palin was selected as McCain’s running mate, I told anyone who’d listen that she’d be the shrewdest pick. When she addressed the Republican National Convention in Saint Paul, I was utterly electrified. But during the latter days of the campaign, I started hearing rumors about how top-level McCain backers were shuttling back-and-forth to Alaska to put out various fires, and of course there has been a steady drumbeat of stories about Palin’s low-level abuse of power. Then there is the fact that the national Republican Party has destroyed much of what was great about Sarah Palin, and she let them do it.
For all its virtues, Alaska has a very quirky political culture, one that doesn’t always translate in the lower 48. At first, this was Palin’s strength. She wasn’t a Southern evangelical, a familiar—some would say overfamiliar—figure in Republican politics. Rather, she was a Northern evangelical, with an accent that almost made her sound like a Minnesotan. Despite her meteoric rise as a foot soldier of Wasilla’s Christian right, she also cut a strangely post-partisan figure in her early days as governor. As she told The New Yorker’s Philip Gourevitch long before she was selected as McCain’s running mate, she was actually glad that Barack Obama was polling well in Alaska because it represented a challenge to the status quo. Suffice to say, most rising Republican stars would stick to praising John McCain.
Palin was quirky in another respect: Recognizing that Alaska had to carve out its own path, she broke with Beltway Republicans in supporting a windfall-profits tax on oil companies among other populist measures. But once Palin signed up as McCain’s running mate, she couldn’t talk up the windfall-profits tax, one of her central accomplishments, because the Republicans in Congress bitterly opposed it. Palin also had a gift for communicating policy details in homespun language. Soon after meeting the McCain team, she reportedly pressed for proposals that she could sell to working mothers and small-business owners and other key constituencies. The sad truth is that the McCain platform, a mish-mash that reflected the often-contradictory input of dozens of advisers and donors, didn’t give her much to work with. Sarah Palin thus became red meat for the base—the pitbull with lipstick.
Palin’s campaign antics can be forgiven. What can’t be forgiven is the ham-handed way she’s tried to build her national profile since she returned to Alaska. She’s abandoned the bold right-left populism that won over Alaska voters—and me—in the first place in favor of an increasingly defensive and harsh partisanship. After making her name as a determined enemy of Alaska’s corrupt Republican establishment, she recently called for Democratic Sen. Mark Begich to step down so the hilariously crooked Ted Stevens could get another crack at the seat. She loudly promised to leave federal stimulus money on the table before clawing that promise back with a whimper. One can’t help but get the impression that Palin is a clownish, vindictive amateur.
Now, for example, Palin is raising hackles for naming colorful crackpot Wayne Anthony Ross to be Alaska’s attorney general. It turns out that Palin may have consulted with Ross over a state senate appointment, a move that would have been against state law. As a general matter, state law is something you might want your AG to be on top of.
What I’m wondering is: Has Sarah Palin undergone some kind of secret lobotomy?
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| 834 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Sat, Apr 18, 2009, 11:15
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pretty clear that dude is just some kind of RINO... ;o)
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| 835 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 08:27
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Ruth Marcus I'd like to thank Sarah Palin for her bravery in explaining the importance of a woman's right to choose. Even braver, the Alaska governor made her eloquent case for choice at a right-to-life fundraising dinner.
That was not, of course, Palin's intention in revealing that she momentarily considered having an abortion. Twice, actually -- once when she discovered she would be a mother at 44, again several weeks later when she discovered that her baby would have Down syndrome.
I'll quote Palin at length, partly because I want readers to see that I'm not taking her remarks out of context, even more because the account of her anguished choice about whether to "change the circumstances" is so gripping and so genuine. Instead of the Tina Fey caricature, we see a flesh-and-blood woman whose moral certainties are being put to a real-world test:
"I had found out that I was pregnant while out of state first, at an oil and gas conference. While out of state, there just for a fleeting moment, wow, I knew, nobody knows me here, nobody would ever know. I thought, wow, it is easy, could be easy to think, maybe, of trying to change the circumstances. No one would know. No one would ever know.
"Then when my amniocentesis results came back, showing what they called abnormalities. Oh, dear God, I knew, I had instantly an understanding for that fleeting moment why someone would believe it could seem possible to change those circumstances. Just make it all go away and get some normalcy back in life. Just take care of it. Because at the time only my doctor knew the results, Todd didn't even know. No one would know. But I would know. First, I thought how in the world could we manage a change of this magnitude. I was a very busy governor with four busy kids and a husband with a job hundreds of miles away up on the North Slope oil fields. And, oh, the criticism that I knew was coming. Plus, I was old . . .
"So we went through some things a year ago that now lets me understand a woman's, a girl's temptation to maybe try to make it all go away if she has been influenced by society to believe that she's not strong enough or smart enough or equipped enough or convenienced enough to make the choice to let the child live. I do understand what these women, what these girls go through in that thought process."
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| 836 | Baldwin
ID: 553441513 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:02
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Character is doing the right thing when no one else will know or hold us accountable. Of course that situation never obtains since God can and does. But it is simple to fool oneself into forgeting that.
It is one thing to understand the anguish and personal pain experienced by the mother in Small Sacrifices which is not at all the same thing as 'recognizing the importance of a woman's right to choose' murder.
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| 838 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:07
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Just so I've got you pinned down on this - there is no relavant character assessment to be made from the lucid consideration of murdering one's unborn child, just from the choice made to not do so - which people should never be trusted with in the first place.
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| 839 | Baldwin
ID: 553441513 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:13
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Good people understand the temptation to do bad, as they themselves are of fallen flesh, but they do the right thing even when no one is loooking.
That is the basis for character assessment. That piece of yours is most definately not justification for infanticide from logic or from Sarah Palin.
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| 840 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:16
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I'll take that as a 'yes'.
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| 841 | Baldwin
ID: 553441513 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:25
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I also expect you to forgive me for the momentary urges to strangle Tree.
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| 842 | Boxman
ID: 29351011 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:40
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You can't fault people for feeling temptation. We are all guilty of that. It's what you do when you encounter temptation that matters. I think Palin can really help young women in situations like these and I hope she continues to do so.
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| 843 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:46
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That is the basis for character assessment.
All fair enough. I'd only note that you don't believe we should ever be given the opportunity to make that assessment about Palin or anyone.
And I'm not running down that opinion, just establishing it.
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| 844 | Baldwin
ID: 553441513 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 09:56
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Nor are my comments ever to be construed to support any false but purported 'right to choose' to perform euthanasia upon the mentally and spiritually challenged.
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| 845 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 10:04
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...or on those in persistant vegetative states who can be used as a political prop.
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| 846 | Boxman
ID: 29351011 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 10:10
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...or on those in persistant vegetative states who can be used as a political prop.
Enough about Tree.
I kid I kid. I jest I jest.
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| 847 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 10:15
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Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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| 848 | Boxman
ID: 29351011 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 10:27
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Mith, what is your opinion about what Palin is doing as laid out in post 835?
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| 849 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 10:29
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I'm not sure what you're asking. I agree with Marcus' take, if that answers your question.
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| 850 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Fri, May 01, 2009, 20:17
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Governor Signs House Bill - Certificates for Stillborn Babies
i'm very excited to have added Sarah Palin to my Twitter account. i am sure, over time, her tweets will give me joy unbound.
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| 851 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Fri, May 01, 2009, 20:31
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That is because you are blissfully free from the ravages of rational thot.
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| 852 | Perm Dude
ID: 5044818 Fri, May 01, 2009, 20:51
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Just in case someone wants to check it all out, here's a "spoiler alert":
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| 853 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Fri, May 01, 2009, 21:38
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That is because you are blissfully free from the ravages of rational thot.
i'm sure jesus went around insulting everyone too.
you're the biggest fraud around here, troll boy.
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| 854 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Fri, May 01, 2009, 22:50
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Know yourself, Tree.
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| 855 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Fri, May 01, 2009, 23:10
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i'm sure jesus went around insulting everyone too.
No, not everyone. Only those...
'who were from their father the devil',
'Serpents, offspring of vipers, how are you to flee from the judgment of Ge·hen´na? ',
'“Why are you thinking wicked things in your hearts?',
'Down to Ha´des you will come',
'but the signs of the times you cannot interpret. A wicked and adulterous generation keeps on seeking for a sign, but no sign will be given it except the sign of Jo´nah',
'“Get behind me, Satan'
'So, after making a whip of ropes, he...'
'and out of his mouth a sharp, long two-edged sword was protruding...'
Not afraid to speak the truth.
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| 856 | Perm Dude
ID: 25449120 Fri, May 01, 2009, 23:23
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Jesus never gives you permission to insult others, Baldwin.
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| 857 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Sat, May 02, 2009, 00:06
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Someone has to put Tree exactly where he belongs.
It's just good board hygiene.
Cleanliness is next to Godliness.
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| 858 | Perm Dude
ID: 25449120 Sat, May 02, 2009, 00:36
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A quote not found in the Bible.
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| 859 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Sat, May 02, 2009, 01:10
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Where i belong, Baldwin, is head and shoulders above you as a human being - you, who apparently, now sees fit to judge others.
John, Chapter 11, Verse 35.
If Jesus knew how you acted, that's exactly what he would do.
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| 860 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Sat, May 02, 2009, 03:43
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Now Tree, Imagine how you would feel if it took you years to discover that everyone had been too polite to tell you just how abysmally innadequate you were as a poster? This way the news can percolate thru that dense nogin and gradually dawn on you.
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| 861 | Boxman
ID: 571114225 Sat, May 02, 2009, 08:21
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Doesn't Tree write an online column for a living? People pay for that? I thought I saw something in a thread around here with him writing about hot dogs. Odd that the guy into sodomy also has a "weiner" fixation too and admits to visiting San Francisco numerous times recently, but then gets offended when you point out the obvious.
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| 862 | Tree
ID: 41371322 Sat, May 02, 2009, 11:04
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Baldwin - i've got no issues with my posting style, i've got no issues with people like MITH or PD or SZ or anyone else calling me out because they do it constructively, and i don't present myself as anything other than the real me.
you, on the other hand, are the one who tries to present some sort of "image" of yourself as devoutly religious, a man of god, and some sort of pious individual, when you struggle with some of the tenets of your own religion, and you wouldn't know "turn the other cheek" if you were standing there listening yourself to the Sermon on the Mount as it was happening.
Boxman - as for YOU...may i point out you're the one with a fixation for sodomy. you seem to point out my own, often enough. i will hold my tongue in regards to what i truly want to say, but if you're not into sodomy at all, well, you and your wife are missing out, because at least one of the acts of sodomy is a fairly common act between heterosexual partners.
it might also go a long ways toward explaining why you're such a prick.
as for your gay slurs, i expect nothing less from you, because you can deny it all you want, but that post was a good example of the homophobia you display.
sorry you don't like hot dogs. they're good on a grill. perhaps if you didn't have such a fear of dick (perhaps your own?), you might try a grilled hot dog one day. i recommend 'kraut and spicy brown mustard on it.
and why SF for me? because it's a kick ass city where you don't need a car to get around, and my girlfriend at the time was living in Burbank, and well, i'm not fond of Burbank, so SanFran made a great place for us to get together, and commit, well, ya know, sodomy with each other.
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| 863 | Mattinglyinthehall
ID: 37838313 Sat, May 02, 2009, 11:55
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How's that forum-cleansing endeavor working out for you, B?
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| 864 | Boldwin
ID: 133532810 Mon, May 04, 2009, 09:36
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Worked great on you, Mr. Former Ankle Ferret. 8]
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| 865 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Mon, May 04, 2009, 09:45
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As if.
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| 866 | Mith
ID: 2894309 Fri, Jun 12, 2009, 13:48
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I've done my best to avoid most of the trashy celeb-gossip type coverage of the Palin family, including Letterman's disgusting comments about her daughter (whichever one he was referring to) but I thought it notable that the obstensibly pro-choice National Organization for Women has joined Palin in her public criticism of David Letterman.
Kudos to NOW for their willingness to put political differences aside to join with an otherwise diametric opponent in their greater common cause.
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