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Subject: Strat-O-Matic Strategy
Posted by: R
- [3856197] Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 02:01
This game sounds like a lot of fun, but I'm sure many of us, including myself are unfamiliar with this game.
If anyone has some knowledge or anything to share, i hope it comes out in this thread.
In an attempt to not sound too stupid, im gonna go through the game rules a couple times before i add my insights, but if anyone else is playing, help fellow gurupies out by sharing. |
| 1 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 02:38
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Do players with a history of injuries get hurt more often in this game? If so, is there some kind of rating for this on the cards?
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| 2 | Purple Pimp
ID: 27633140
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 02:56
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R i believe it is ranked on many games they missed last year in baseball.
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| 3 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 03:00
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Oh, I guess thats simple enough.
I still am a bit confused by this game, why is Jeff Zimmerman the most expensive closer? I can't find anything that would justify his price.
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| 4 | Donkey Hunter
Sustainer
ID: 55220159
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 04:54
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I have never played before so I dont know if my strategy matters that much but here goes. Note: I don't want to reveal too much before the league draft happens. I aimed my team at pitching and defense. At least I think I did. I am not sure exactly what amounts the 80 million should be broken down to. I put 5 above average starters into my draft and when picking by position players I usually sorted by defense.
I wasn't sure what stadium I should pick. If I spend a lot on pitching then I should be able to use Enron or something and try to help out my lesser hitters right? But I used the opposite strategy and put my team in a pitchers park. So I am hoping to pull out a lot of 3-2 wins.
Also I was very aware of trying to get a good mix of left and right handed pitchers as well as left and right handed batters.
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| 5 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 08:16
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OK, 1. Yes, players are ranked for injuries. Basically, you want a player who either has *no* injury rating on his card (rare) or someone with an injury rating at 2 or 12 somewhere on his (hitter's) card. A rating at a more common number (3 or 11) means more frequent injuries. Beware someone like Mike Lieberthal, whose injury number IIRC is at 7; he will be out basically all the time.
As a long-time Strat player, feel free to shoot with questions; as a beta tester, I have played the game (and Bernie says I can comment on it if I say nice things :) ). If you check the screen shot of standings you will see my team listed as "Buffalo Bisons". But the poor record was deceptive; while I was playing personally, the team was contending for first place and (barely) above .500, while it collapsed when the test was finished via autoplay.
Toral
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| 6 | Shelby-villian
ID: 111412312
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 09:13
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R- Actually I was wondering about injuries
myself. This much I know:
If you look at a hitter stat, somewhere on the
card is a HBP: injury. Usually it is on a 12 or 2
so the chance of getting injured is very small...
1/3 (3 columns) * 1/2 (chance of hitting or
pitching columns picked) * 2 (usually 2 injury
chances on the card) * 1/36 (chance of
landing on a 2 or 12).
So... a healthy hitter for every at bat has a
1/108 chance of getting injured. But for players
injured during the 2001 season, injury
chances are much higher, check out Pudge. I
think he gets injured on a 5 roll which is a
4/36, which ends up being 1/27 chance of
injury every AB. Buyer beware....
Anyone can confirm this? But my questions
are, hopefully Erik can answer:
How are the pitchers considered when
chancing injuries? Once a player is injured,
how long are the injuries and what formula is
used to decide on a minor or major injury?
Thanks in advance!
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| 7 | Shelby-villian
ID: 111412312
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 09:22
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On Zimmerman, check out his matrix. He is
lights out vs. righties.. automatic.
I prefer Rivera since he holds runners much
better and having a good matrix vs. lefties
means he neutralizes the big left studs and
the situational lefty pinch hitter.
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| 8 | MikeJ
ID: 123351816
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 13:19
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For those unfamiliar, remember that everything in the game is based on dice odds. So a player's columns are set according to that- with 3 columns, there are 108 total chances on each card. The board game uses a 20 sided die to break things down further, so there are really 2,160 chances (108*20) on each card.
So, if a player has an injury on 2-12, he has a 1 in 108 (a 2 dice roll of 12 occurs 1/36 possible rolls, and multiply that by the 3 columns) chance of getting hurt each time you roll his card (1/216 for each at bat, because there is an equal chance of rolling a pitcher's card, which has no injuries on it). If a player has an injury on 2-4, he has a 1/36 chance of getting hurt each time you roll his card (a 2 dice roll of 4 occurs 1/12 times, and multiply that by three).
The most important stats in strato are not cumulative- hits, HR's, RBI's, saves, wins, etc. The important stats are "efficiency" statistics- SLG, OBA, WHIP, HR's per plate appearance, etc. And since each card is broken into lefty/righty match-ups, its tremendously important to see how each player performed from both sides- it has a huge effect on the game.
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| 9 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 13:59
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The chance of a pitcher getting hurt is the same chance as a hitter who has an injury on "2" or "12". So, it's the same for every pitcher, and it won't happen too often.
An injury can be from 0 games (i.e., he leaves the game and comes back the next day) to 15 games. Shorter injuries are more likely than longer ones.
What can happen with a reliever, at least, is that they can get tired if they're overused. This makes them less effective... and there are no off days in the season to rest them. For this reason, I would try to mix in at least a couple of relievers with fatigue of more than 1. I would also try to avoid starters like Smoltz or Dotel with fatigue 5.
It's not very difficult, if you know the probabilities of dice rolling, to break down a card. But, I don't think it should be strictly necessary. Using OPS and the BAL rating should tell you what you need to know. If a guy's BAL is 3L/3R or more, that's going to be a player who is significantly better versus one side. If his OPS is high, then his weak side will still not be all that bad, and you should be able to play him everyday. If his OPS is low, or if the BAL is really unbalanced (like a 7 or more), then that's a platoon player.
You can also look up players' real-life lefty/righty splits. USA Today has them by team if you dig hard enough. This is Baltimore, and you just change the second "1" in that URL to a "2" to look at Boston, etc. To look at NL teams, change the "a" in that URL to "n". Or, if you're interested in a specific player, you can look him up at ESPN, MLB.com, etc. In any event, the point being, the Strat card will reflect the 2001 real-life performance vs. lefties and righties.
Don't go too nuts with a "platoony" team, though. As mentioned, the players will get injured more... and also, most non-regular players can't field very well, and defense is very important in this game. Defense is absolutely crucial up the middle. And personally, I try not to have any bad fielders anywhere except maybe 1B.
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| 10 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 14:12
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Onto more important topics -- WE STILL NEED FOUR MANAGERS for our Rotoguru draft to happen. Please get your team in today or I'll open the division to the general public!
-ESB
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| 11 | MikeJ
ID: 123351816
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 14:27
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For anyone interested in the math, defense breaks down like this:
There are 216 chances on every roll, 108 for pitcher and hitter. On the pitcher's card (every pitcher), 30 of his 108 chances are defensive plays with an X listed next to them. On every one of these X plays, the result depends on how good your fielder is at the position listed. Of these 30 X plays, the individual breakdown goes
7 SS
6 2b
3-3b,c,cf
2-lf,rf,1b,p
This means that for every batter, there is a 7/216 chance that the SS will have the opportunity to make an error or give up a hit. Doesn't sound like much on the surface, but if you extrapolate that out over a 162 game season, it works out to appxtly 210 chances. A great SS will convert 90% of those plays, while a poor one might only convert 60%- and that would add up to 63 extra baserunners allowed by the poor fielding SS.
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| 12 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 15:09
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Thanks for the info on defense Mike J. I can see now why defense is important at SS and 2base esecially. Is there a huge difference between a 2 rating and a 1 rating? I don't care for many of the players with a 1 rating at SS and 2b, so plan to have guys with a 2 rating.
Also, it looks like its wise to have players that can play multiple positions. This way you can fiddle with your lineup a lot more.
I noticed Randy Johnson is labled as being able to start on 3 days rest? Can he keep this up the whole season? And if so, is it possible to set your rotation to have him on 3 days rest, but everyone else on a normal 4 days rest?
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| 13 | MikeJ
ID: 123351816
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 16:18
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The difference is that a 1 will never give up a hit. Whenever an X is rolled, you roll a 20 sided die to determine a result (computer merely automates all these rolls). Its different for every position, but at SS, 1-7, and 14-20 are automatic results- either a hit or an out. A 1 will never give up a hit, while a 2 will give up a hit on a 1 or 2. 1's also have the advantage of automatically turning a DP, whereas 2's don't. Anything from 8-13 depends on the E rating-in that area, a 2E10 will outperform a 1E20. So, overall, a 1 as a range is 10-15 percent better defensively- but a 2E10 might actually be better overall than a 1E25 because the range and the E are really 2 different things.
Check strato-related boards, and you can probably find a full defensive chart with percentages.
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| 14 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 16:27
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Yeah, Randy Johnson and other pitchers marked with a * can start every fourth day all season. To make sure he does, you should set the per-game rotation, rather than relying on the generic starting rotation. You should probably do that anyway. Matchups against specific teams are very important, and it takes very little time to do.
Each difference between a 1 and a 2 fielder, a 2 and a 3, etc. is pretty substantial. Is it bigger than the difference between Omar Vizquel (1) and Derek Jeter (2)'s hitting? Surely not. Is it bigger than the difference between Orlando Cabrera (1) and Cristian Guzman (2)'s hitting? Personally, I would say that it is. It's hard to quantify, because not only is it fewer balls going through for hits, it's more double plays as opposed to forceouts, which is also a big difference. So, I would say two things: one, that the guys like Roberto Alomar and A-Rod who are both great hitters and excellent fielders up the middle are well worth their price; and two, that if you do want to go cheap at one position (which often makes sense), a cheap fielder like Pokey Reese or Vizquel is a logical way to go. (Another good cheapie to get, in my mind, is a guy like Rickey Henderson or Benny Agbayani who can't field or hit for much power, but who makes a very serviceable leadoff hitter/DH.)
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| 15 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 20:37
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Thanks Dean and Mike J for the explanations. Dean, you read my mind, I drafted both Arod and Pokey Reese who are both 2's at defense.
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| 16 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 23:01
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I noticed there are quite a few pitchers who can go on 3 days rest. Would there be any drawbacks on going on a strict 4 man rotation with 4 starters who all have that label?
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| 17 | Shelby-villian
ID: 111412312
Thu, Apr 25, 2002, 23:19
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R- Have you read the other SOM thread? I
asked the exact same question- check over
there.
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| 18 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Fri, Apr 26, 2002, 10:27
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Actually, Pokey is a 1 at 2B, which if you get A-Rod, presumably would be where you'd play him :-)
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| 19 | R
ID: 3856197
Sat, Apr 27, 2002, 21:27
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Thought long and hard about how lineup and this is what I came up with. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Pitching: I'm going with a 4 man rotation with
Unit (lefty)
W. Miller (righty)
Pettite (lefty)
Weaver (righty)
My thinking was that it was wisest to just get 4 quality starters that all are labled 7* (go on 3 days rest). I got Kim as the closer.
Lineup:
Deshields (L)
Magglio (R)
Bagwell (R)
Bernie (S)
Boone (R)
Glaus (R)
Kreuter (S)/ Ausmus (R)
Guillen (S)
Grieve (L)-designated hitter
I put a lot of emphasis on defense (all 1's and 2's except for Deshields who is a 3). Also, all my power hitters are righties because i play at Edison International.
I don't have much of a bench behind the starters so I can't really play with my lineup. I'm worried about not having enough speed on the top, also Magglio seems to have a lot of GB's on his card, so would it be a bad idea to bat him 2nd? I know he really isn't a 2 batter, but he is one of the few guys on my team with an A rating steals (14 for speed) and he also has a high OBP.
I'm also unsure of who to start behind the plate. Ausmus gives you the better defense and arm, but he can't anything.
Again, any help would be appreciated.
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| 20 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 01:08
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Ausmus and Kreuter isn't an ideal platoon because they're both better against righties. The only starting role I can see for Ausmus is in your park versus a lefty pitcher. Versus a righty, he's "weak", so he can't hit ballpark homers... in a neutral park, Kreuter is a better hitter (perhaps I should say a better walker?) against both righties and lefties, and all you sacrifice is a slightly worse throwing arm. (Catcher's range is not really important.)
I see speed at the top of the lineup as a luxury, nothing more. To me, your leadoff hitter -- the best on-base guy who would not have his power wasted by hitting leadoff -- is Grieve. (Plus he can't ground into a double play leading off.) People think I'm nuts doing this sort of thing, but, I have won a lot doing it. (And lost a lot too, sometimes.) My thing is, with five 30 HR hitters coming up behind you, 1) a stolen base is less valuable, 2) a caught stealing hurts more, and 3) your speed is more likely to be rendered irrelevant by an extra-base hit or homer. Speed is of course better than no speed, but that's true anywhere in the lineup.
If you can find a cheapo platoon partner for DeShields -- a guy like Dustin Mohr, Wil Cordero, or Bobby Kielty -- you should consider that. DeShields doesn't do much against lefties.
So, against a righty, I'd go: Grieve, DeShields, Bagwell, Magglio, Bernie, Boone, Glaus, Kreuter, Guillen. Against a lefty, I'd go: Grieve, DeShields' platoon partner, Boone (KILLS lefties), Magglio, Bernie, Bagwell, Glaus, Kreuter/Ausmus, Guillen.
The biggest point is that you have a killer middle of the lineup that is going to put up a lot of runs, no matter what you tinker with at the other spots.
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| 21 | Donkey Hunter
Sustainer
ID: 55220159
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 04:04
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Question about catchers defense ratings.
Brandon Inge
Defense: c-2(-3)e2,T-8(pb-8)
so it means catcher with range of 2, arm of -3 and projected to make 2 errors...i am assuming pb is a passed ball rating in which a higher number is better
what is T-8?
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| 22 | flake
Donor
ID: 483401914
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 04:15
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So many details .. we played 10 years on a
game made by the SSI people (who made a
lot of war simulations) We started on board
games, and the platform moved to APPLE II
and then it died with the Mac. A simple
unexciting interface, but stunning in its
realism. It is great fun to manage and G.M.
and make trades because team chemistry
can be so elusive. There were always
surprises that defied the odds. John
CandyMan threw a no-no one year. And Nolan
Ryan did just once in an exhibition against an
all-rookie team,
Flakes and Gang of the Natural League.
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| 23 | R
ID: 3856197
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 04:30
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Dean-
Thanks for the help. I decided to take your advice about getting a platoon player for Deshields who could hit lefties (grabbed Agbayani - OBP 364.)
I agree with you on that speed isn't really that necessary for my lineup. I changed my manager strategy for base running and stealing to "conservative." I think I'll just use Kreuter in my lineup regularly and just hold on to Ausmus for emergencies.
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| 24 | Shelby-villian
ID: 111412312
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 10:52
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Donkey-
A "T" rating for catchers only. This range of
numbers (1-3, 1-9, etc.) is the range for
possible throwing errors on successful stolen
bases...
...On a successful steal with a dice roll of 1, 2,
or 3, there is a possible throwing error by the
catcher. Roll the 20-sided die again. Refer to
the catcher's card for his "T" number(s). If the
second roll is within the "T" range, no error
occurs.
Hence, higher the T rating the better. I found
this link useful for those wanting beyond the
FAQ:
http://ericthrall.com/som/rules.htm
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| 26 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 13:42
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Weird... that is a mistake. You prefer a low T rating... it's an error if you roll the T number or less. Same thing with the pb (passed ball), lower is better.
I usually put stealing and hit & run on conservative or extra conservative (although of course it depends on the talent). But unless I just have a very slow team, I usually put baserunning on aggressive or very aggressive. I like going for the extra base and forcing the opposing manager to make decisions on cut-off plays. The upside is usually higher than on a straight steal, since there's more than one runner involved. I suppose you'd have to play the computer game to see it, but the "normal" baserunning setting is very conservative.
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| 27 | Shelby-villian
ID: 111412312
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 21:54
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Dean-How well does the AI manage the
bullpen? For example, does it know during a
blowout to put in your mopup reliever instead
of using your good relief? Does it know to put
in the left specialist late in the game vs. a
tough lefty... and then another change if the
other manager PHs with a righty?
Thanks in advance.
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| 28 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Sun, Apr 28, 2002, 23:34
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Well, in the TSN game, you only specify setup men and closers. So anyone who is not in one of those two categories will be a candidate to come into a game if the starter leaves early and/or it's a blowout. Closers can be set to "maximize", and if you do that, the closer will be very strictly limited to save situations. Setup men have to have some leeway in their usage, because situations often come up when the middle/long men are tired, and someone's gotta pitch. But it will do its best to try to use the setup men in close games.
As far as the computer's ability to deal with matchups, it is remarkably good. If you ever make your lefty setup man a guy who can't get lefties out well, for instance, you will prove it for yourself, because the guy will probably get lit up :-) I'm not saying that the AI is perfect -- a human can out-manage it -- but in this game, the computer is playing against itself, so that works out nicely.
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| 29 | Shelby-villian
ID: 111412312
Mon, Apr 29, 2002, 11:30
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Thanks. I invested in a 500K reliever (1
stamina, 7L) and I was wondering if he was
worth the investment as I would want him to
face only tough lefties. Hopefully the AI will
understand the situation and not leave him in
for any righties.
I also invested in a 500K mopup
starter/reliever (4 stamina) and hopefully he
will be used when the game gets out of hand
early.
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| 30 | R
ID: 3856197
Tue, Apr 30, 2002, 00:19
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Decided to play with my lineup and players and here is my new lineup
Lefties Righties
Mohr (R) Deshields (L) lf
Delgado (L) Bagwell (R) 1b
Boone (R) Delgado (L) dh
Bagwell (R) Magglio (R) rf
Bernie (S) Bernie (S) cf
Magglio (R) Glaus (R) 3b
Glaus (S) Boone (R) 2b
Guillen (S) Guillen (S) ss
Kreuter (S) Kreuter (R) c
I think with my guys from 2-7 in the order should bring in a lot of runs. Kreuter doesn't have much power, but I his OBP is decent so putting him 9th in the order makes the most sense. Gil is also available in my league, he has a better BA but he is a righty, while Kreuter is a switch hitter, gives better defense, and has a better arm.
Problems I see is that I formed my team around Edison International where righties hit more homeruns. Therefore, i took guys like Boone, Glaus, Magglio, Bernie, Bagwell. Then I noticed that the three other guys in my division have almost all right handed starters (12 out of 15). One team has no left handers at all, not even in the pen. I got Boone on my team, who rips lefties, but he's barely ever going to face lefty pitching, pretty much a waste. Since you play the majority of the games against your division rivals, a lot of power is going to be wasted. Anyone else having the same problem?
My lineup has lots of power in the middle and I will keep my baserunning and stealing on conservative (taking Dean's advice). I don't have much speed on my team anyways.
I also like my team's defense, with the exception of Deshields and Mohr, who are my only players without a 1 or 2 rating.
My rotation is still a strict 4 man rotation
Unit (L)
Miller (R)
Pettite (L)
Weaver (R)
I tried to give myself a combination of left and right starters and got Kim as my closer. My fifth starter is Rupe, who aint great, so if one of my starters goes down, i pretty much screwed.
Right now, I'm pretty satisfied with the my team looks, and I'm praying for the best.
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| 31 | homebody
ID: 03163022
Tue, Apr 30, 2002, 22:20
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I am new to rotoguru, but have so far played some strato, off line and through several teams first games on TSN. I thought PAC Bell would be a good park, THINK AGAIN! IT has utterly been killing my offense. The ball park effects while not displayed on the player cards on TSN SOM are in effect. Try to draft player with their home parks in mind. AVOID PAC BELL!
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| 32 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, May 02, 2002, 16:46
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This may have been answered somewhere already, but a when a pitcher has a S7 rating for endurance, does that mean he can go 7 innings no matter how many pitches he through? Or does strat-o-matic factor in his pitch count?
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| 33 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Thu, May 02, 2002, 20:43
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The pitch count is what ultimately matters. The endurance rating just gives you a general feel for about how many innings that will typically be. I assume that an average S7 can throw about 15% more pitches than an average S6 before getting tired, and an average S6 about 15% more than an average S5... I don't know that for sure.
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| 34 | R
ID: 3856197
Thu, May 02, 2002, 21:07
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Dean-
Thanks for the info. I think TSN has the S7 meaning the amount of innings he can go without being fatigued. I guess bullpen's are more important this way, because if your starter could go 7 innings no matter what his pitch count, you would really only need a closer and maybe one decent guy in middle relief.
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| 35 | MikeJ
ID: 52134320
Thu, May 02, 2002, 23:08
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Re: Pitcher fatigue
The tabletop game rules are as follows(paraphrased)- a pitcher is ELIGIBLE to become fatigued acording to the stamina rating on his card. He will reach a "POW" (point of weakness) if he gives up any combination of 3 hits and/or walks (not including intentional walks or HBP) in any single inning during or after his listed POW (or stamina, however you refer to it). He will also reach a POW if he gives up any combination of 4 hits and/or walks in any 2 consecutive innings starting with his listed POW inning. Finally there is the "bomb-out" rule- 5 runs in 1 inning, 6 in 2, 7 in 3, and so on. What a weak pitcher leads to on the tabletop game is the addition of 10 (out of 108 total chances) automatic singles chances to the pitcher's card (signified by dots, next to either 7&5 or 7&9 in one column).
Examples- Randy Johnson (POW of 7) gives up 3 runs on 3 hits and 2 walks in the sixth- he would lose no effectiveness. Octavio Dotel gives up 2 walks and a hit in the fifth- he would be considered to have reached his POW. Or, if Dotel walks 2 in the fifth (his listed POW is 5), and 2 again in the sixth, he has reached his POW starting after the second walk of the sixth inning.
I highlighted ELIGIBLE above because, if the computer game is playing by tabletop rules, pitch count has nothing to do with a pitcher becoming fatigued. An S5 who is pitching a perfect game in the 6th will not automatically become fatigued because of his rating. He merely has the opportunity to become fatigued earlier. Anyone who has played in a strato league without usage limitations will tell you that you tend to get unrealistic results for starters- 300 inning seasons and such, because these rules are fairly lenient. Throw RJ's arm off if you choose to.
The biggest question is whether the TSN version is sticking strictly to these rules. My team will probably be a good test, because I have 2 S5 guys in a 5-man rotation, and no S7's. I purposely chose S5 guys like this because they actually had better stats than many much more expensive S7 guys, and with no usage limitations, I prefer cheaper starters with better stats (thus better cards) who may (or may not) overtax my bullpen. So far, the game has played out the way I expected, as the AI has kept S5 pitchers in with regard only to the rules I stated above, not according to the S rating. I've had an S5 guy pitch a complete game, and that was with an aggressive setting for bullpen usage. Whether this will have long-term effects on performance, I don't know, but I decided to roll the dice.
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| 36 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Thu, May 02, 2002, 23:19
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MikeJ, the computer game adopted a new fatigue rule a few years ago. It's more complicated, but it provides for degrees of fatigue, and worsening fatigue (as opposed to the board-game Fatigued/Non-Fatigued dichotomy). The question is whether the TSN game uses the super-super-advanced computer-game fatigue rules or the tabletop rules. Bernie H. could tell us that.
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| 37 | Dean
ID: 151132204
Thu, May 02, 2002, 23:40
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Yeah, the TSN game uses the pitch count fatigue, the exact details of which Strat has never described, as far as I know.
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