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Subject: GSB no longer to be free game Posted by: RecycledSpinalFluid - [21446223] Sat, Jan 20, 14:12 Just logged into GSB and it started up with this message: " In the next couple months, Grand Slam Baseball will be switching from a free site to a pay site. I don’t know when we will be making the switch because this decision has just been made, and we need to finalize an agreement with a credit card processing company, and configure the site to recognize whether a team has paid. I thought that I should let everyone know about this as soon as possible because I know how much time you spend on your teams, so I feel it’s important that you know what is going on. I’m sure that there will be plenty of owners who are not interested in paying, and I don’t want anyone to feel like they had continued to put time into a team, when I knew that they would soon be abandoning it. Everyone is welcome to stay with their teams now whether or not they intend to pay for the team in the future. I had always hoped to keep this game free, but with the state of the online advertising market, it just isn’t feasible. I’m sure you are all aware of the financial difficulties that many of the dot coms are facing, and unfortunately for us, these were the companies that were buying the majority of online advertising. To give you idea of what has happened, we have had as many as 5 different ad agencies selling ads on our site at the same time. Now only two of them are still around, and one of them has just informed us that they are raising their commission to 60% (it was 30% last March). Since last June, we have seen the number of subscribed teams increase five-fold, this has lead to a tripling of our expenses. Unfortunately the ad revenue has taken such a dive that our revenue in January is less than 25% of what it was in July. Our monthly losses have continued to increase over the past 3 months and now have become substantial. We’re left with no choice but to find a new revenue stream. We have every intention of making the fee as minimal as possible. Our intent is simply to get the site to support itself. We plan on offering the following payment plans: $5 for 1 season, $12 for 3 seasons, and $18 for 6 seasons. We are also planning on offering discounts for people who want a 2nd or 3rd team, but how this pricing will work has not been finalized. We know that there are many other online baseball games that you can still play for free, and we completely understand why many people will choose to do this. Our hope is that the people who are willing to pay for our game will agree that our prices are fair. Most likely, there will be many teams opening up and a need to reduce the total number of leagues. I’m going to take advantage of this need for re-shuffling to switch from 16 to 30 team leagues. Most likely, there will be some brand new 30 team leagues created for owners who want to start from scratch, and there will be some leagues that are holdovers from the current game. If your league is folding, you will have the option of moving your team (players will have to get new names) to an expansion team in a remaining league. So if you’ve built a powerhouse in league O3, and that league doesn’t have enough owners stay to keep the league going, then you are welcome to take your players to league B and see how you match up. It will be sad to lose some of the growth that we have had over the past year, but I think that the people who decide to stay will see many benefits. I’m sure that many of the owners that have been around for a year or so, will look forward to getting back to a situation where I can better stay on top of the action in all the leagues. Also, I look forward to the smaller site freeing up additional time for me to get back to improving the game. I’m sure many of you can remember the days when there was something new in the game almost every week, as opposed to now, when I have to spend all my time maintaining the site. I plan on setting up a new message board to discuss this change. I’d like to hear your suggestions on making this as smooth of a transition as possible. Until that board is set up, please email your comments directly to me at mmosier@grandslambaseball.com instead of sending them to their webmaster or “Commissioner”. Hopefully, this will prevent a flood of emails to the Commish, and so we can stay on top of issues inside the game. Mark Mosier GrandSlamBaseball.com" | ||||||
| 1 | RecycledSpinalFluid ID: 21446223 Sat, Jan 20, 14:12 | Hummmm, looks like I need to pare down the number of teams I have... | |||||
| 2 | swami ID: 61112711 Sat, Jan 20, 14:19 |
You beat me to it RSF. Here's what I had posted... Uh oh. GSB will cost $5 per season, or $12 if you pay in a 3 season block, and $18 for 5 seasons. I'm gonna have to bail on this, even though it's a great game, and I also feel like 75% or more of the owners will also be pulling out. Maybe this will convince them that this is the wrong way to go. I have never seen any ads from GSB themselves on the internet. There hasn't been much of an attempt to get their name out much more than word of message board. I wonder why many of the free sites haven't collaborated on a deal to get the people looking at more sites? Were they worried about the load of people joining, and not being able to handle it hardware-wise? I, and I'm sure many others will write the commissioner and try to convince them to change their minds. Possibly by suggesting a click for $$ idea much like SW had for a while. Anyone else have any thoughts? | |||||
| 3 | TB at work ID: 1311481612 Sat, Jan 20, 14:46 |
GSB is a fun game but too inconsistent and unpredictable to consider paying for. I will take a wait and see approach. I know that I would not keep any of my rebuilding projects. If all my old-time division mates in P2 decided to stay I might consider keeping that team. TB | |||||
| 4 | allhair allstars ID: 24049316 Sat, Jan 20, 14:58 | Another one bites the dust. I don't know what GSB has done to try to increase revenue, but if this announcement isn't a wake-up call to Gurupies everywhere, I don't know what else would be. | |||||
| 5 | swami ID: 61112711 Sat, Jan 20, 15:06 | I hear ya on that one aa. CLICK AD'S BOYS!! | |||||
| 6 | Prettyfly ID: 17431315 Sat, Jan 20, 17:52 |
Best thing they can do is close this free-site and start a new one. Why? Because this decision ruins all system they had built. There will be many odd trades just because people don't care about prospects, they just want get as powerful lineup as they can afford for season or two. People don't care about drafting anymore, why bother yourself if you are gone soon. There will be total mess, unless ALL managers will continue to play and pay. This game lost his point today. :(((((((((( What do you think? | |||||
| 7 | Put me in, Coach.... ID: 39416321 Sat, Jan 20, 17:59 | I am staying. I have put much too much work in to my farm system and I am waiting for my players to mature. They are asking pennines if you ask me. I AM STAYING! | |||||
| 8 | J ID: 32459220 Sat, Jan 20, 18:03 |
to prove prettyfly's point, the P2 Dodgers (non-gurupie) had this to say: I don't know how long it will take to make the transition or if P2 will still exist, but if I decide to leave I'm willing to make some lopsided trades to guys that move their teams to another league. | |||||
| 9 | Wammie ID: 437541618 Sat, Jan 20, 18:25 | For me, the only way to keep playing would be in new leagues, where we can draft our teams from the start. Or if P2 stayed mostly the same, but that won't happen. | |||||
| 10 | WiddleAvi ID: 470341416 Sat, Jan 20, 19:05 | I think this is a great game and easily worth the $3 a month charge for signing up for 6 months | |||||
| 11 | Eustacio ID: 51729258 Sat, Jan 20, 22:11 | It's a great game and if I had the regular cash to pay for it, I would, but I don't know if I would be able to right now with college. That, and with all of my other tasks in college (newspaper, competitive speech), I don't know if I'll have the time to devote to a paying simulator. It will really depend on the makeup of my leagues I suppose. I've got teams in V2, O2, and P3, and I could only keep one of those, all of which are great leagues. Maybe if those two leagues merged... | |||||
| 12 | Sanfran ID: 4010915 Sat, Jan 20, 23:41 | The commish could always halt trading so that no lopsided trades are made. Then turn it back on when the site is a pay site. | |||||
| 13 | Wammie ID: 437541618 Sat, Jan 20, 23:48 |
I just am a recent college grad (dec 2000) and i know being a college student is a life of living in poverty. But this game would be the price of a beer at the bar for a month! less than a pack of smokes! unless you live in a van down by the river, you can pay $3 a month. there are enough beer cans on the floor of your frat houses and in the cushions of your couches to pay for a year. Hike up your skirts and help GSB out until the market swings and it is free again. This won't be forever. the .com market will turn around in the future and we will all enjoy free sites again. don't let this one die from the economic downfall. I for one refuse to participate in this "economic slow-down" and say $3 a month will effect my lifestyle! grow up. All people in college use lack of money as an excuse to help people. Money or time. I don't have time or money to help those people, I am a student. I was also in engineering, so I am not talking from the voice of someone who just walked to their degree. what I am saying is help GSB out!!!!!!!! | |||||
| 14 | The Great One ID: 285352818 Sun, Jan 21, 12:52 |
OK Wammie, just as unfair as it is for owners to slam the Commish to start charging a small fee to play GSB, it is just as unfair for you to tell people how they should spend their money. I CAN PAY the $40 dollars per year it will cost to play this game, but I choose not to. It is undoubtedly a great game, but I don't want to pay money to play games on the internet. That's my decision. If it is that important to you personally tht this game stays avaiable, than instead of insulting people by telling them to "hike up their skirts", why not send the Commish $50 a month? It comes down to "How important is it for you?" By the way, while $3 per month equals one beer at a bar, it also equals 2 cases of Rahmen noodles, which is what most college students live on! ;) The Great One | |||||
| 15 | Wammie ID: 437541618 Sun, Jan 21, 12:58 | Fair enough great one, but people for people who decide not to play it is probably not the money that will keep them from playing, but it is the principle of paying money for a game site. | |||||
| 16 | The Great One ID: 285352818 Sun, Jan 21, 13:16 | Very true Wammie. That's how it is with me. There are many free games on the net. None that I have seen compare with GSB, but those games will no longer be GSB's competition. GSB will now be competing with other pay sites. To be honest, I have no clue how GSB stacks up against such sites, as I have never paid to play one, but I know if I were to pay money to play games on the internet, than I would have no problem forking over the $40 per year to play GSB, as it is a great game. | |||||
| 17 | Eric Freda ID: 397342118 Sun, Jan 21, 14:06 |
I'm willing to stick around providing they make the seasons 162 games (meaning more weeks per seasons, not just 10 games per week with 12 in week 16). I also am hoping to keep 3 teams and I'm hoping the discount for multiple teams would be something to the order of $30 bucks for 3 teams for 6 seasons. This to me sounds fair enough and I'm willing to pay it. PS: Great One, you are so right about the Ramen noodles. I have a lot of friends in College who live on them and Mountain Dew alone (Or beer depending on the hour). | |||||
| 18 | Toral ID: 550441019 Sun, Jan 21, 16:01 |
Whatever happened to Kraft dinner as a staple? The game is priced about twice what it is worth according to my own personal demand curve, but that's not the big issue. It's the total disruption of the existing structure. My teams were built to compete in the specific situation they were in, and I have enjoyed the divisional and league rivalries. But they're not going to cut it in the newly assembled leagues, full of stacked teams, that continue. That means my years of building are down the drain, and the sensible option is to start over in a new league. Having to throw away my existing teams leaves me not feeling enthusiastic about that, so it seems best to make a clean break and say goodbye. If I'm going to start over for pay, I might as well wait for a half year or so until the sim itself is improved. Besides, I was starting to confuse my GSB players with the real life ones, and that won't help me in SW any! | |||||
| 19 | Dev ID: 360352110 Sun, Jan 21, 17:45 |
Well I'll probably stick around although I do see a few problems. 1.) If leagues are expanded to 30 teams then either leagues will be combined or everything will start over. If leagues are combined then those in a very good league won't have as talented teams as someone in a very weak league. If everything starts over (better IMO) then all past work goes down the drain. 2.) Short Term time blocks. I really hope they weren't serious about a one season time block, there are endless problems with it. To list a few: a) Nobody will rank their draft b) Nobody will want to rebuild c) Northerns will not be looked at d) Minor League FA's will be ignored e) Salary and Payroll will not be a factor at all f) Age won't be a factor That's just a few. Money and prospects will have no value anymore because everyone will want to win right away, they don't care what happens to the team in 5 seasons. One season blocks may be the only thing that keep me from playing. Same thing for 2 and 3 year time blocks although not as drastic. 3.) No long term time block. I think people will stay on for a few years if they are serious about paying to play. Works out better for GSB too because athough it's probably cheaper for the customer the customer is guaranteed for a while. 4.) Vacation. If your away without internet you won't want to pay for your team. If people don't pay then they will lose their teams which is annoying. Paragraph 5 looks encouraging to those that stick around however. Gurupies were a very large part of that growth so I never saw those days. It'll be sad to lose some of the non-gurupie GSB vets though. I can't remember anything else right now but I'll add stuff later. I'm sure we'll all be taking a wait and see approach because a lot of stuff is unclear now. | |||||
| 20 | k ID: 47516715 Sun, Jan 21, 21:33 | i was just wondering if there are any other games like gsb on the web that are free. im surprised that gsb went to a pay site but i guess he had to do that to keep in business. | |||||
| 21 | Josie ID: 4441223 Sun, Jan 21, 22:39 |
I am still debating whether or not I want to pay. It's not so much the money but the principal of paying for an internet game. I also am only 17 and don't have a credit card and wouldnt be able to get my parents one. Although I was considering getting one anyway, never too soon to start establishing credit. I am not sure which is worse, having to pay or realizing all the work I have put into various teams is kind of going to waste especially the teams that I have been rebuilding. I would like to keep two teams if I do decide to pay because I enjoy playing in O2 so much, and because my Mets in X are so stacked. Although I think redrafting all th teams and starting over would be kind of interesting. Like taking all the players in same league and just having a massive draft where I could pick my own team. Well I knew this was going to happen because GSB was too good of a game to stay free for long especially with the massive growth. I guess this is a good thing because 6 teams was beginning to take up alot of my time. Hopefully this will be a growth thing for GSB as managers will now be more serious and be able to spend more time on their teams. And the commish will be able to put more time and effort into improving the game. I would hate to see GSB fold. And if I ever become a millionaire after I get out of college I will buy up GSB and run it for free for all you guys, myself included. Josie | |||||
| 22 | Big Poo Generator ID: 57844423 Sun, Jan 21, 22:42 | I haven't totally decided what I'll do yet. In R2, we currently have at least 5 managers who want to keep our league going, and I'm guessing we'll get at least a few more. Is anyone interested in merging with R2? It would be cool if we could get, say, three leagues of roughly the same quality to merge. That might alleviate some of the problems people are worried about. | |||||
| 23 | Narcolepsy ID: 23456415 Sun, Jan 21, 22:51 | I wonder how much they will have to charge when MLB and the MLBPA notices the site is using all their names. | |||||
| 24 | Wammie ID: 14013107 Mon, Jan 22, 10:12 | Very true Narcolepsy, I remember when I first started, the question arose about using real player names. GSB said it was not a problem because it was a free site. Now that people are playing, I would guess that the names would have to be changed, but I don't know the law on that. | |||||
| 25 | St. Louis Psychos ID: 537422815 Mon, Jan 22, 10:23 |
BPG, I think it would be great if we could work up a merger to merge M2, P2, and R2. I know many of the managers in these 3 leagues and all are very competitive. All are very good leagues. This could be one megagurupie league that is very competitive. | |||||
| 26 | WiddleAvi ID: 48523260 Mon, Jan 22, 11:00 | First of all from what I understand is that you can keep your team intact even if you move to a new division...only names will have to be changed because players already have the same names as the players you have. So say you have Clemens with ratings of 467,395,440,472 then you will have a player with the exact same ratings just with a different name. I like your idea St. Louis Pyschos but I WANT THE MARLINS. Sounds crazy but wherever I go I want the Marlins. I also heard that there will be a 162 game season I just hope that it's spread out to maybe over 2-3 months. Yes the shortness of GSB alows team to rebuild quickly but 1 month is too short. The game can be slowed down just a wee bit. Imagine playing 10 games a day......Divisions won't be decided until the last day !! | |||||
| 27 | J ID: 50726110 Mon, Jan 22, 11:04 |
no, there are going to be 128 game seasons for now and 8 games a day. Whether or not those 8 games will all be against the same team...I dont know. | |||||
| 28 | MattG ID: 300162211 Mon, Jan 22, 11:33 |
I think we should forward this Address to the commish, maybe it will give him some insight about what the customers think as a whole in a free forum to speak our minds. Second: What do you people think of a pay while you play deal. The commish could log how long people are logged in and charge you buy the hour or minute. I know within 1 month I spend between 50 - 60 hours on 1 GSB team that is World Series bound so you figure 50 hours * 60 minutes = 3000 minutes. If the Commish would charge people a simple fee of $.05 cents per every ten minutes logged on then with the people who are serious and actually would pay for 3 months on the system he currently suggest would only be paying the $3.00 a month, the commish would make more money that way. so People who are serious pay more, but still not as expensive as $5 a season would be. any comments??? I could be wrong with my calculations, i am currently in class and my brain is fried. | |||||
| 29 | MattG ID: 300162211 Mon, Jan 22, 11:35 | Psycho St Louis dont forget the P3 and B3 leagues, I am in both of them and they are both very competitive at the top. Actualy B3 has 6 - 7 good teams and P3 has like 9 - 10 good teams. | |||||
| 30 | Big Poo Generator ID: 14857812 Mon, Jan 22, 12:50 | St. Louis Psychos, that sounds great to me. I think that merging whole leagues, or at least big chunks of leagues (8-10 teams), is the best way to go to preserve competitive balance - rather than individual teams forming a league together. Let's continue this on the merger thread. I'll consult with some R2 managers and see what they think. | |||||
| 31 | swami ID: 477472711 Mon, Jan 22, 18:37 |
I received an email back from the commish that in effect stated that he would rather see other people pay to maintain the site while he worked on improvements. I wish he'd just admit he wants to make some money, and more power to him for that. In the improvements department, my Astros in P3 had a 388 avg no power 1B sign as a FA while the lowest avg guy on the squad is 460. | |||||
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