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Subject: P2 Merger talk Posted by: TBRaiders - [26738619] Sat, Feb 03, 16:36 Our thread is getting long and I was hoping we could discuss the different ideas that have been tossed around and the merits of each plan. 1) Stick with our current merger plans with Gurupies in the other thread. 2) All join together in a new draft league and start from scratch. 3) Tell the commish we want to keep P2 as it is and have him merge another league with ours. 4) Solicit another league that wants to stay together and try what V2/M are doing. 5) Any other ideas? | ||||||
| 1 | Synocco ID: 351152257 Sat, Feb 03, 16:42 | Hey guys, sorry to intrude upon your thread. L2 and H2 will be merging and we are currently looking for another league to join us. Between L2 and H2 we have 16 owners accounted for. Would P2 be a match for us? | |||||
| 2 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 03, 16:53 |
Option 1) We are all together and it is the easiest plan. There are some teams that some of us are leery of. Stacked from weaker leagues or GRT users. In my mind, it will work itself out. There will be plenty of FA's, NL players and drafts to eventually make teams equal. Option 2) Sounds like the funnest idea yet the most time consuming. It looks like AL, Whitey, Wammie, and myself have all already signed up for the current draft league. We can drop out of that one and solicit Gurupies who want to start a new one. Some drawbacks: Time involved in ranking tons of players. Possibility of not getting enough people interested in joining. The chance of people joining and then not ranking draft, making those teams horrible forever and ever. Option 3) Commish could do this but then we are relying on the luck of the draw. Who is to say that he won't just add in random stacked teams from many weaker leagues? Option 4) Feasible and probably fairest way to do this but lots of headache. We could talk to M2 or R2 and see if either league wants to do this. There will still be enough people to complete their "All Gurupie" merger. We would have to solicit the league for members to join existing teams like V2 did. We all know how that turned out. Option 5) Brock has tossed around the idea of just allowing M2 and R2 teams. Although it sounds fair to us, that isn't how the original thread came across. P2 can't come in there like we're from V2 and say "This is how we want it." I think we need everyones input on what they want and then bounce ideas from there. I like option one or two. Either stick with current plan and see how it goes or do a new draft. I am willing to bet that if we don't like the way things are going after the first two seasons we could all sign up for a new draft league. | |||||
| 3 | Brock ID: 3311272918 Sat, Feb 03, 17:41 |
I think option 1 will work. I'm trying to push the fact that to keep competivenes more even, we should bring our league teams to the new league. Some of the guys from R2 and M2 are bringing non-league teams. I changed mine to my P2 Padres. We could surely come up with 25 owners from those 3 leagues. I'm sure there are other owners that people know that aren't using totally stacked teams. TB makes an excellent point about the draft league. If someone joins but then doesn't rank their draft, that team is screwed for a long time. Nobody will want to be that team. I think the draft is more risky. I never thought of that before. I would be very skeptical about it. | |||||
| 4 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sat, Feb 03, 18:06 |
Ok, We should all just stick to the original merger. Bring in the best teams you wish. No matter how good or bad your team is this league will be FUN. I think if we stick with what we got, by the way we are basically done we need only 3 more teams owners to confirm and we got our league. It will be a mess to do it again. Not EVERYONE can be the Best. Some teams are better than others. This will happen anywhere. I guarentee if you create another league you will have the same problems to deal with. Trust me I set up 4 leagues since i joined and the same thing has happened over and over. The fact is that we are 99% done, stick with it and it will be worth your time. No one can be on top for ever and no one can be the worst for ever. Remember you can join this league- easiest, be randomly placed with other owner you don't know, or create a new league the hardest. Stick with it PLEASE. yR | |||||
| 5 | Timing ID: 590262414 Sat, Feb 03, 19:23 |
I'm readin some of the posts and there's stuff telling us what our original intent was and all this stuff...lol. Geez... Things are still so far off that I'm just like whatever until then. We can bounce stuff around until we figure out what's best for our league. One thing seems completely true in that our league is far more balanced than the ones who've talked about joining the merger. I'm not quite sure how to balance that out but I'm sure we can think of somethin. Maybe some of us who have better teams can just trade off our best players to other P2 teams. I can trade my best players/prospects evenly through the league. TB can bring an outside team and trade his best P2 players. Stuff like that might help some of the P2 teams measure up. Or maybe we just say if you're not a rebuilding team you must bring in your league team. Don't want to screw people who are rebuilding but want to keep some kinda sanity when it comes to stacked teams. | |||||
| 6 | Brock ID: 495121712 Sat, Feb 03, 20:19 | I think yR's opinion is a little bias. He is not from one of the three main leagues. He wants us to just say "stick to the original plan" so he can still be in the league. I'm not saying he can't be in the league, I just think we should check out all the teams that join. How hard would it be for the rouge teams to display their roster? Not very. This would only need to be done for about 7 teams. It appears that 3 or 4 of them are from the P3 league. Does anyone know any of these teams or how their league is? I'm skeptical about these guys that are bring a team from a league that no one else is bringing one from. They could be the only competetive team in the league and just have a complete all-star team of young talent. I don't mind a single stacked team as long as their are 30+ year old to go along with the 20+ year olds. I'm still in strong favor of just bringing league teams. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes. Competetiveness is the key. | |||||
| 7 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 03, 20:40 |
Competetiveness and insuring that P2 remains together and is happy with the merger. I posted a response on L2's thread because they are also looking for another league to merge with them and H2. I really got to thinking about this and the bottom line is making sure everyone is happy with the product they are paying for. Reading the posts from Brock, Whitey, Wammie, Timing, J, Pimpster and Worm makes this "game" a much funner experience for me. It is all about having fun, for me at least. Sure, I like to win games but that is going to happen regardless. ;) | |||||
| 8 | Wammie ID: 437541618 Sat, Feb 03, 20:40 |
I still vote new league, but I will do what ever as i have said many times. i could be wrong, but it seems that if people are going to be paying for the league, that many people will rank their "expansion draft". I think it would take a long time for the tallent to "settle" as it has in p2 where there is a lot of parity. in a new league, there would be a few seasons to figure out how the new league works, but in the long run it would be more balanced sooner. I am def starting over with a new team. so it is just a matter if most of the p2ers are coming to. As already stated, four of us are redrafting in the new league any way. | |||||
| 9 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sat, Feb 03, 20:46 |
so what you guys are saying is that since i am not from the gurupie leagues my team is not worthy of being in this merger, i guarentee my league was just as tough as yours. I cant stand that people are being anal about this. First of all you were complaining that the 3 main leagues were not bringing in their teams. They were bringing in others. Now its the rogue teams. What are people afraid of, what is the difference if someone brings in a stacked team or a rebuilding team. If i had the choice i would bring in my best team, becasue i do not wanna pay to lose. My team is young i got great prospects, i never used the grt or any type of cheat that koonz talked about, i don't have that kind of time. I built my team for 9 seasons and i am extremely proud of it. things change and the reason why my team is good is because i put time and effort into it, that is the kind of manager i would want in my league. that is all for now yR | |||||
| 10 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sat, Feb 03, 20:48 | i am currently creating that new league , we got 30 teams and it looks to be fun. | |||||
| 11 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 03, 20:56 |
Hey YR, this isn't about you or anyone else outside of P2. This is about what we want to do as a league. I don't think anyone is so much worried about losing as they are about "competing" against teams who have an unfair advantage. We have been together as a league since it's inception, for the most part. We have had the same owners on all teams for several seasons and have had low owner turnover overall. Parity is a key word. We haven't had any one dominating team unless you would count the original players on the Royals who have pretty much dominated their division and who won't even be a part of this merger. I truly think that we will all stick to this plan but that is for everyone to decide on their own. Just like you, we have all spent several seasons building and grooming our teams. Building and grooming them to win in P2. Suddenly the talent level is huge on several teams coming into the league and puts those teams at an unfair advantage. We can always have a couple Gurupie mergers. Those with stacked teams can all get together and have a super-star league and those with competitive teams from competitive leagues who want to stick together can merge as a group. It isn't about trying to exclude people. It is about trying to make it fair and fun all at the same time. | |||||
| 12 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sat, Feb 03, 20:59 |
why can't we just make it an all gurupie league. why are people so up tight on ONLY having P2,M2,R2 teams, are those teams above the other gurupie teams. NO Is there other leagues with the same, if not more competition than those leagues. YES SO what is wrong with letting other gurupies bring in whatever team they want. NOTHING. I am getting a little annoyed with this whole thing, I will drop out of this league in a second because i already created a draft league. But you guys seem like cool people to play against and i would like to see how the team i made stacks up against the best of the other gurupies. Once you can understand that it does not matter who brings what teams. Yea i am biased but i have never not said to someone you can't join because your team is too good or bad on the other hand. This league will be great because we DO have great owners. And if everyone had stacked teams there would be someone in first, someone in last and the rest will be in between. more rant and raving yR | |||||
| 13 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sat, Feb 03, 21:12 | in league z, 8 seasons 8 different world series winners. There was no one dominating team, there were always 6-8 teams that were always in the race. Sorry if i am being harsh, but why not let the owners choose any team they want. | |||||
| 14 | MattG ID: 8116321 Sat, Feb 03, 21:32 |
Personally if you guys disband then I think your all A-holes, just my personal opinion. Just because it seems you don't get your way 100% and you can't compromise you all cry and worry you will lose a few games, la dee friggen da. just join the league as is, have the 3 other teams confirm lets play some friggen baseball, we are all good people and we are all good managers, i am sure things will work themselves out, I don't have the best team either, but i just want to play the damned game with people i know, people who will be active. If you guys in P2 are so elite, then show us, instead of just running away. | |||||
| 15 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sat, Feb 03, 21:36 |
As much as i hate to do this, i think i am going to remove myself from this league. I think i will get more satisfaction in my draft league starting fresh. There are many views i disagree with in this league. Good luck, I will be active on this board so you will hear from me from time to time. oh yeah if there are any more openings in my draft league i will put whoever wants in on a waiting list yR | |||||
| 16 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 03, 22:01 |
Matt G, your post is disturbing. I don't think anyone said we were going to pull away but we were making sure we were all on the same sheet. If you stopped to read what I posted above it isn't about winning it's about having fun against teams that are roughly equal. Just from looking at list it seems like we are getting the majority of teams from five leagues(W2,P2,M2,R2, and P3). As a matter of fact, I only see 4 teams from outside those leagues. I know why Worm is bringing the F3 Royals. He took over a very poorly managed P2 Mariners team that comes in last yearly. The other three teams are YR, which he posted his team and it looks strong but beatable, SanFran's F3 team and Timings D2 team. Matt G, it is also about making sure every owner in P2 is happy with what we are doing. We have enjoyed our league. Is it so much to ask that we all communicate and make sure this is cool for everyone? It's not about crying or getting our way. I am hoping that everyone decides to stick with the merger but everyone gets the chance to voice their opinion. | |||||
| 17 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 03, 22:07 |
YR, it has been said time and time again, but our only means of communication is posting on a message board. I think your decision to pull out is as hasty as Matt G's to criticize us for making sure we are going in the direction that the majority of the league wants to go. I think I will be happy with the merger, but if other teams don't want to do it then we need to talk about viable options. There is still plenty of time before the change is made. Too many rash decision making the last couple days. I, for one, took my chill pill last night and am just going to roll with the punches. TB | |||||
| 18 | MattG ID: 8116321 Sat, Feb 03, 22:29 |
TB I wasn't criticizing you for doing what the whole league wants, not at all, but it seems like petty bitching in some cases that is all I am saying. It will be a very poor league if P2 doesn't join, so all I can say is I hope you all decide to continue with the merger and I hope to play against all of you. Thanks that is all | |||||
| 19 | Timing ID: 590262414 Sat, Feb 03, 22:48 |
Personally I don't give a rats ass what anyone outside of P2 thinks about what P2 decides to do as a league. I doubt any of us feel like joining a merger we don't like just cause it's convenient for everyone else. We'll do what we want just like everyone else is free to do what they want. Whoever doesn't like it will just have to not like it. I mean hell we have more posts in one season of P2 than about 2/3 of these other leagues combined. I agree with TB, there's no rush here. We have plenty of time to decide what to do with our P2 teams. Hey, isn't this P2 MERGER talk? lol All of a sudden our league has multiplied! | |||||
| 20 | Timing ID: 590262414 Sat, Feb 03, 22:50 | TB, I'm tellin ya MattG is just upset that he might miss out on gettin spanked by our teams. I'm serious man... =) | |||||
| 21 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 03, 23:12 |
Honestly, I look forward to having Matt in our league. I went and checked out some of the other leagues message boards and he seems to be the most active in P3. I do know that some of our P2ers come across harsh, blunt, or whatever you want to call it, but nobody outside of P2 is used to how we interact. If they went back and read some threads they would think we hated each other, lmao! It wouldn't be a poor league if P2 didn't join. There are many solid managers who have signed up and more waiting in the wings. I hope we decide to do this but it will be a good league with or without us. TB | |||||
| 22 | Brock ID: 3311272918 Sun, Feb 04, 01:22 | yR is getting on my nerves. I have no idea what the f|_|ck he is talking about. Same goes for MattG. I've stuck up for them in the past saying I think they should definitely be in the new league. Now they come in here spewing bullsh!t. None of us have ever said that P2 or any of the other leagues are superior. This is mainly in response to post 12 and 14. There is DEFINITELY something wrong with letting people bring whatever team they want. I've already pointed out the reasons in previous posts in this thread and in the merger thread. I have no problem with either of these guys bringing their present teams but for people who have to bring their stacked team, I have a problem with that. Here's what I've said over and over, P2, R2 and M2 should bring their league teams and whatever rogue teams come, they can bring theirs in as long as it's not a totally stacked team from a non-competetive league. I can tell by a roster if this is the case. If a team has all the top players from a league, then it's a non-competetive league. They've obviously had no problem signing all the awesome FA's. If it's an even roster then they should definitely be allowed. SanFran's team is from a non-competetive league. Please get your facts straight before you come crying into our forum. | |||||
| 23 | yankeesRule ID: 2605228 Sun, Feb 04, 11:36 |
Brock, i was just irritated about people saying they want to start over, join different leagues and so on. I was over reacting and I apologize. I thought there was a problem with the rogue teams when someone mentioned about showing their rosters. Again i apologize but with everyone wanting to do somoething different i just got caught up in the moment. I would still like to be in this league and again I apologize for what i said. I am not a member of any of the leagues you mentioned and i have no room to say what you guys should do. You guys can figure out amongst yourselves what teams the P2,R2, and M2 teams pick. I just want to be in an active league and this league fits the bill. yR Lets play some baseball!!!! | |||||
| 24 | Matt G ID: 35641319 Sun, Feb 04, 22:52 |
TB I appreciate your compliment on being active, I wish I could have been involved in P2 from the beginning but unfortunatley I wasn't around cause of no internet access here at school, I just got into P3 and I love it, it is kinda active on the trades and such, but people don't post a lot and that is the league i am looking for. Brock I am sorry if you are annoyed by me, i will change my ways =) Timing, I hope I dont get spanked by your teams too much, but I wont get offended, hopefully we can renew our "rivalry" that we had in B3 too bad no one but us participated. That is all, good luck in whatever P2 does. | |||||
| 25 | Sanfran ID: 4010915 Sun, Feb 04, 23:16 |
ok, I've keep quit as long as i could, but i keep reading your post and you keep mentioning me and i want to talk to you guys in your fourm so outsiders don't get involved and we can solve this thing, once and for all. Now i am being completly honest, and here are the reasons that i want to bring my rangers team in instead of my Red Sox team. 1. My rangers team is younger and i have a much better pitching team than my redsox team. 2. Beleive it or not, My Red Sox team has had more susscess than my rangers team. 3. Both leagues I play in M2 and F3 are competivite, and out of the 16 combined seasons i have played with them I have won 3 combined world series. 4. My rangers team might look good, but the Redsox owned by sachin, have spanked my team every year, and i have in no way ever dominated the league. 5. I worked very hard, paying big bucks for nothern leagures, and always making the most of trade talks. 6. None of my players that i currently have were aquired by free agency, cause i dont believe in paying someone big bucks. I hope this will help clear things up from my end. I will post my Red Sox team so you can see how that team is and you can see thats its not as good as the rangers but it is still good. We havnt even started playing yet and you have allready given me the world series. I only made the playoffs with my rangers team by beating out the same Royals that Worm is taking over by ONE game. And i didnt make it past the first round of the playoff's. I hope we can settle this and come to some kind of agrement so we can all get to gether and play. All of our leagues are vey competivite and we have a great bunch of managers who are active and that is the best part. Thanks for your time, Sanfran | |||||
| 26 | Sanfran ID: 4010915 Sun, Feb 04, 23:25 |
PLAYERS AGE POS AVG HR GAP SPEED John Hernandez 24 C 458 479 265 313 A.J. Hinch 28 C 493 445 474 362 Sean Casey 37 1B 500 391 500 333 Trace Coquillette 32 2B 493 333 377 476 Troy Glaus 28 3B 454 433 370 413 Dustin Sands 29 SS 473 271 364 496 Marvin Benard 26 OF 496 278 315 411 Darren Blakely 34 OF 463 277 311 423 Nate Dishington 28 OF 474 342 412 294 Jacob Messner 27 OF 492 333 289 316 PITCHERS AGE POS FASTBALL BREAKING CHANGE CONTROL Sean Bergman 33 SP 443 382 482 384 Michael Corey 33 SP 407 298 456 496 Geoff Geary 27 SP 432 266 426 479 Pat Hentgen 32 SP 479 463 408 416 Aaron Bond 30 RP 393 443 435 327 Brian Cooper 25 RP 348 410 285 470 Otoniel Lanfranco 25 RP 402 303 407 477 Maximo Nunez 34 RP 469 411 317 482 Brian Scott 30 RP 456 495 364 367 Dave Veres 32 RP 485 401 360 457 | |||||
| 27 | Brock ID: 42542238 Mon, Feb 05, 07:49 | SanFran - I really don't mind you joining with your Rangers anymore. But please don't come into our forum and try to deceive us. I know that most of the players on your team were acquired via FA or lopsided trades. I can tell you right now that you didn't start out with most of the guys on your roster and you didn't acquire them from the Northern League either. You must think P2 is really stupid if come in here and say that you didn't acquire any of you players via FA and expect us to believe you acquired all your players legitimately. If that is really the case, then you must have made some "good" trades. I don't really care though anymore. Also, don't try to tell us that your Red Sox team is better than your Rangers team. Your Rangers team is 3 times better. All of them are young, especially your pitching staff. The hitters are about the same other than age. But I don't have a problem with you joining anymore so good luck in the new league. | |||||
| 28 | Sanfran ID: 4010915 Mon, Feb 05, 08:00 | ok, brock thats all i wanted to hear, I hope you guys still decide to join and i really do look forward to playing in an active league. The more i think back to the beggining if my league, i did luck out when i had the rangers because they were allready better than the other teams when i first got them. Anyways, thanks for claering some things up. | |||||
| 29 | Wammie ID: 20039259 Mon, Feb 05, 08:02 | Agree with Brock. If you were to play in p2, that team would never happen, because you could never get all of those players. we all rank our draft picks. it looks like you are the only team in your league to do so, and you still used GRT. But that is ok, we'll play | |||||
| 30 | axp113 ID: 2605228 Mon, Feb 05, 10:54 | does anyone have icq or AOL IM, if so why not post them so we can commicate more effectively. This works well becasue in my one league 8 of us have aol IM and it is so much easier when you are trying to trade people. | |||||
| 31 | Wammie ID: 20039259 Mon, Feb 05, 11:06 | a lot of us do this while at work, and are restricted by proxy serves and such | |||||
| 32 | TB at work ID: 1311481612 Mon, Feb 05, 11:58 |
Some of us actually work when we are at work too. ;) | |||||
| 33 | Brock ID: 42542238 Mon, Feb 05, 12:52 | Who would do such a thing TB??? | |||||
| 34 | Wammie ID: 20039259 Mon, Feb 05, 14:39 | TB I have heard rumors about people who do that, but from my experience, that has been found not to be the case! | |||||
| 35 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Mon, Feb 05, 15:23 |
That settles it, you are a government worker!! I thought Brock was a chicken Farmer. Wonder what he's got his laptop plugged into? I guess we are probably done talking about the merger eh? Didn't get much feedback from the other guys so they must all be cool with it. | |||||
| 36 | Wammie ID: 437541618 Mon, Feb 05, 20:32 | I wish I was a gov't worker. That would even be easier than Brock's job! the job i had last spring and this past summer was the best. I was an intern for a computer company, and for 6 months i surfed the web wrote emails and took a lot of coffee breaks. Those were the days! | |||||
| 37 | Brock ID: 106282323 Mon, Feb 05, 21:24 | That's all you do now Wammie. Things have not changed a bit for you. At least I throw in an occasional meeting here and there. | |||||
| 38 | Drew ID: 2115414 Tue, Feb 06, 01:16 | im orioles from R2, and im combining with you guys, and im as the blue jays. but the teams i want to compete with are the rangers and mariners, so is there anyone who would trade me their team in that division for the blue jays? i would really appreciate that. my aol sn is faulkfan99 and my msn name is dk064@hotmail.com | |||||
| 39 | TBRaiders ID: 26738619 Sat, Feb 10, 22:09 |
Butt Just getting these threads together. | |||||
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