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Subject: Simulated Sports Horse Racing Sim Posted by: Madman - [29246911] Sat, Apr 21, 17:15 Hey, I just wanted to post that I've been playing this Horse Racing Sim and have found it to be a lot of fun so far. Even better than Smallworld. Very surprising given the fact that I like baseball so much and am (or was) clueless about horse racing. I didn't even know who Affirmed or Seattle Slew were two weeks ago. At any rate, hopefully by posting this, we can use this forum for some "secret" advice sharing. Plus, this message board engine is much superior to the official one in the sim . . . If you are playing, please post info. and maybe we can share some tips. As I said, I'm a total newbie. I know that Toral and JKaye play some, and with the large Gurupie crowd, there are likely others. Or maybe COULD be others if you knew about it. So, go check it out! The first couple of weeks are ROUGH. The instructions are horrible, IMO. Especially if you know nothing about horseracing. If you decide to start up a new stable, there is help available. And I think it's a great sim. . . you just have to get used to some things . . . a process I'm still working on . . . Good luck. | ||||||
| 90 | Madman ID: 29246911 Tue, May 01, 18:44 |
Some sources for pedigree information (BTW, I don't like Breeding Alerts a lot. They are the ones that had Private Terms as a turf sire. . . which didn't make any sense, as corroborated by Toral): 1) Chef-de-Race (Go to the "statistics" links). It's my #1 site. 2) To do the dosage calculations, I went to Del Mar Pedigree . They have a free "hypothetical breeding" link on their site -- either to the left or at the very top . . . enter the sire's name and the dam-sire's and it calculates the tree for you. I'm still not 100% certain how the sim calculates pedigree (last I heard, it took a woman and a man to reproduce, but, whatever). But this dosage index can give you some clue. I found it interesting to see the full trees for my horses. Nice. 3) Surf the Turf from Davarto. I still haven't figure out navigation at his site very well, but I like his top Turf and Dirt sire lists . . . Simple summary statistics for how well they do in the sim. 4) ask toral 5) lurk on Iago's forum. I've picked up quite a bit from him. When I have a few extra moments (aargh), I open two windows. With one, I login to my stable, and go to "view player". With the other, I go to Iago's forum. When they do a stable review, I switch back to my first window and view that player's horses, so I can follow the arguments. That's why I run my monitor at a high resolution -- I use that real-estate :). Yeah, the politics forum has gotten out of control. Please don't give up, however. There are still some sensible people around there sometimes. But I understand the frustration. Believe me, I understand it :) . | |||||
| 91 | Madman ID: 29246911 Wed, May 02, 14:22 | FYI -- Apparently the sim is having monetary troubles. See the message board on the sim . . . D'oh! | |||||
| 92 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Wed, May 02, 22:46 | Just read the message about the shortage. Sounds tough to have a pay to play and free game in horse racing. I haven't even had one race yet so I have no clue/suggestions as to what could be done there. Hard to imagine he won't get cut off with the advertising thing. How is that not incentive based? Hope it works out. | |||||
| 93 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 00:55 |
Yeah. It will be interesting to see what they come up with . . . In the meantime, I cracked some codes (I love a simple cryptographic problem -- didn't break anything sensitive) and got some tips from Mr. Coker and am set to begin writing a VB ap to track horses, or whatever else I want. The horse tracker will be similar to Indy's horsefinder, but with a larger database and much more information . . . hahahaha. Assuming I can program it . . . | |||||
| 94 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 01:23 |
Oh, by the way, it's too early to congratulate me on a good race-finding strategy. Several additional horses have entered all the small races that I've seen so far :(. . . A few of them will become the favorites now . . . I left my picks simply b/c I don't have the energy to do any more research at this point . . . Plus, the server is giving them fits, and I don't want to over-load it with my petty searching . . . This will be a *very* interesting week for me, however, with a bunch of horses going at it. . . | |||||
| 95 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 2504849 Thu, May 03, 11:34 | Horses going at it, eh, are you breeding or racing? ;-) | |||||
| 96 | Toral ID: 452461218 Thu, May 03, 12:21 |
Just taking a quick look at Madman's recent claiming action. Babified Opossum -- what a steal. It makes me want to cry. Boy did that previous owner gets fleeced. A horse that's never run a route and only tried the turf once in a 5K claimer! I like running back in a track-restricted allowance too. I'm trying a couple bids in the auction this week. There's a few decent horses, or ones I see a little promise in, that didn't have any bids placed on them on Day One. Of course a lot depends on when people get the time to look. The first week I bid I thot I was real clever bidding $1004 on a horse unbid on on Day One. Somebody got around to the last page eventually and he went up to $99,000 on Day 3.... Toral | |||||
| 97 | Toral ID: 452461218 Thu, May 03, 12:27 |
My guess was right. They just updated the auction at the weird time of 12:26 -- just after I put my last bids in. All 5 of my bids are high, none for more than $1042. Some of them may be topped tomorrow, but being high bidder for a day gets me a chance to put in a topper on Saturday morning.... Toral | |||||
| 98 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 13:25 |
hahaha. Horses are *racing*. They've been told to save the mating for later :). Toral -- yeah. That's the correct auction strat, I think. Get in on the horses first . . . Poor Babified. He was going in a race without any competition, and now finds himself with a bunch. I was going to bump him up to routers, but one more shorter race tempted me . . . sigh . . . too late to change now . . . We'll see if he has heart this week, at least . . . I'll then have to give him a couple weeks off. . . definitely not in a claimer race. | |||||
| 99 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 2504849 Thu, May 03, 15:36 | what is a route race? | |||||
| 100 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 15:55 |
StLCards A Route race appears to be any race 8f or longer. At least that's what I think it is from reading between the lines. I didn't even know how long a furlough was a month ago (it appears to be 1/8 of a mile, or roughly 220 yards or 200 meters). To reveal my own horse ignorance, where are the "turns" in a race? I.e., I've read of 1 turn and 2 turn horses . . . I assume any route race has two turns? I.e., a horse track is 1 mile around (8f)? Also, I assume a Main Track is a dirt race? | |||||
| 101 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 2504849 Thu, May 03, 15:56 |
All 4 of the horses I entered got in races. Erica Bark is the favorite at 3/1 in race 1019.3904 with a good jock. Hot Republic is 6/1 (tied for third) in race 1019.1906 also with a good jock. Dealer Dixie and French Iron are going out at 16/1 and 34/1 respectively. So at least the sim likes two of my horses, at least in these races. Can I still change the riding instructions and should I? I put them in to go at .98. I believe this means that if they have a chance to win they will still give it all they have, but if they are clearly going to lose they will pull up a bit and not overexert. Does this put me at risk for missing out on a place or show? Do either of you have a can't lose horse this week I should bet on? | |||||
| 102 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 16:48 |
I've seen most of my race entries. Unfortunately, I have no betting locks . . . I went ahead and rolled the dice placing Rakida's Plug in a class I MSW on his first race -- and he's favored! Cool. She's also got my 3rd jockey or so. I wouldn't bet on him - - first race he's only RTG, and surely some of the other horses are Sharp . . . Plus, he's going against his sire a bit. I put him in an 8.5f because of his strong classic breeding (DP of 48 and DI of 1.74). But I'm nervous about pushing a horse that far on the first time out . . . StLCards I would put Erica Bark and Hot Republic on 100%. Erica may win that race. Got a great pole position and such. Only problem is the RTG status . . . The other two I might leave. I have no experience in this, however, so use your judgement. I'm having trouble getting access to the horse profiles of the horses in the sim (server problems). For that reason, don't expect any betting tips forthcoming. The key is to have a long-shot who you thing has a great shot at coming up and beating the competition. Most of my horses were given decent odds (but not too many favorites). The only exceptions were cases where I didn't think they would get poor odds . . . plus, when you see Babified Opossum at 27/1 or whatever, that's misleading. There's a stakes quality horse in that race. So you can't bet to win. And the field is so tiny that the payouts to betting on him to place or show are not worth your effort, despite the "decent" odds. | |||||
| 103 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 17:23 |
I am trying to run my "list claimer" program, and not having much luck at all. It's working, but going VERY slow. I may just limit all potential claimer checks to those that are sub 5K costs . . . Note: this might be a very good week to claim horses. Shorter window to make your claims means less competition? Plus, it's darned hard to check out the horses! | |||||
| 104 | Toral ID: 452461218 Thu, May 03, 17:24 |
Madman 100...horse tracks are all different sizes! As a result, in RL handicapping, much attention is paid to the track inn a 2-turn race. At some distances and tracks, the first turn is so close to the starting gate that many handicappers feel that a horse who cannot take a quick lead will inevitably be on the outside going around the first turn, losing ground and severely compromising his chances. Same distance at another track might be no problem. Some distances are one-turn at large tracks, two-turn at small tracks (aka "bull rings"). 8 f (one mile) is indeed the mark between a sprint and a route. It itself is considered a route except by a few hard-liners who say that as the dividing line, it is neither. Cards, I haven't checked who got in, but know I have no can't lose horses. Some can't wins, maybe. Jockey instruction deadline extended to tomorrow at noon this week, allowing me some time to think about your questions.... Toral | |||||
| 105 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 18:58 |
I just downloaded all the sub 5K claimers . . . There are a few potentials, but nothing like Dynaform Theater from last week . . . In fact, I'm looking at maybe snagging some unraced 2 year olds. . . They look to be the best bets in this crop. I heard that you can pick them up and then they are a hot property in the sim . . . I'll have to verify this in the auction, however. Maybe a way to get rich fast? Some of them have decent breeding, too. . . Although nothing eye popping. | |||||
| 106 | GoatLocker ID: 23727611 Thu, May 03, 19:29 |
As Toral said, the dividing line between a sprint and a route is 8f (one Mile). And, as he also says, it can be tricky. At Santa Anita, 8f is a two turn race and I handicap it as route race. At Hollywood Park, 8f is a one turn race and I handicap it as a sprint race. Just depends. At some of the small bullrings, 8f can be a 3 or 4 turn race and I consider those completely separate from the others. Will try to add more to the discussions as I get to feeling better. I put in for my horses last Friday, but haven't heard anything yet. Will check again tomorrow and then email Mike if I don't see my stable. Cliff | |||||
| 107 | Madman ID: 29246911 Thu, May 03, 22:11 |
Something really bad has been going on over there this week. . . The servers are down half the time. It wouldn't surprise me if they are freezing new accounts until they get the new server . . . But yeah, you ought to get official word about it . . . I was going to check out the claimers tonight . . . oh well. Guess not. My VB horse database program is coming along exceptionally well. I really think it will blow the doors of Indy's utility . . . Still a few weeks from release, but it's going to be very helpful. The problem is that the database takes about 600K for each week you want. So, for example, if you want all the weeks from 300 to 1000 in the database, then the database is 60 megs. . . Although for transfer, I think that can be zipped down somewhat . . . I've been restructing the database tonight, and I've gotten about as far as I can go. Some of the cool features: a) speed ratings for all horses all races b) average speed ratings over different surface, distance categories for each horse c) starting strategy for each horse each race (hehehe -- although I a may delete this if Mike or others tell me to). d) the most complete information database on the web e) faster than Indy's What the hell more do you want? I've even thought about allowing you to type in jockey information . . . but don't think I'll do that. | |||||
| 108 | Madman ID: 29246911 Fri, May 04, 14:38 |
Hey -- if any of you guys have an older horse that you want to get more information about, let me know. I have a database of all raceouts from week 500 to 1012, and it's a trivial task to expand it. I've developed a VB application that goes through a horse's history and reports some cool information. . . kind of like a hybrid between Indy's horse finder and Mr. Coker's Past Performances . . . Just remember, that everything between weeks 650 and 1012 is really in the last calendar year. . . | |||||
| 109 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 2504849 Fri, May 04, 15:27 |
35739 French Iron - 6yrs old. I got this horse in my intitial stable so that means it has never raced before I think. I adjusted Erica Bark and Hot Republic to 100% with jockey decides and lowered the other 3 yr old to a .96 effort. I left Frech Iron at 100% to see what will happen. Where do you find a list of horses that are in the auction> I see the link to enter the numbers but can't find where to browse them. thanks. | |||||
| 110 | Madman ID: 29246911 Fri, May 04, 15:43 |
StLCards a) Auction. Go to Misc. and then Auction Results. I know. Strange place :). b) French Iron. AAAAAAAARRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH. First, your horse is supposedly unraced. And probably really is. But check this out: There was another French Iron who raced up through week 949 of the sim. He had 10 races between week 509 and 949, and was very mediocre. Retired with an average speed rating of 50.3 and never broke his Maiden (in 10 attempts). WORSE, there was even a horse using 35739! That horse, Hidden Cozzene, retired in week 627. She was little better. 53.3 speed rating in her last 4 attempts, and she never broke her maiden, either. I hope your French Iron and 35739 fares better! In fact, you could ADD the average speed of his namesakes to get yourself a stakes quality horse . . . I do honestly think these two previous versions are totally independent of the horse you have . . . I can't see their pedigree or anything. But they both existed simultaneously in the sim for awhile, so my guess is that he is just re-using names and ID numbers . . . I've got to email Mr. Coker about this one . . . This is the sort of thing I wanted. Believe it or not, it helps. I'm trying to trouble shoot the program. This discovery means that I need to allow the user to key on the Horse/ID combination to guarantee accuracy. Previously, it was an either/or. | |||||
| 111 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 2504849 Fri, May 04, 15:53 | Thanks Madman. If this 35739 French Iron is as good as either of its two former selves, then I will be looking for the part of the sim that allows you to have your horse give rides at school carnivals! Very interesting that he is reusing names and numbers. Databases usually don't like that very much. If he's storing the data anyway why not just create new identities? Do you know if there is a KY Derby equivalent in this sim? | |||||
| 112 | Madman ID: 29246911 Fri, May 04, 15:54 |
Hmm. More information on the old French Iron. His ID was 1899. That's the ID for a newly created homebred, Lightning Stash in the splintsbeg stable. . . So, I really think Mike is just re-using the name. You better hope so. :) | |||||
| 113 | Madman ID: 29246911 Fri, May 04, 16:04 |
Toral -- I see that you may win Judge Gilded in the auction. If so, here are some stats that may interest you: Average Dirt-Sprint (4) -- 44.8 Average Dirt-Route (5) -- 57.3 Average Turf-Rout (1) -- 46.8 No other races run. Overall speed average 51.2 in 10 races. Race history: 627.2206 -- MSW, 20,300. 4.5fD. 41.4 11/12 changed ownership from youngster to *Computer 872.2203 -- Clm, 6.5D (3,500). 40.9 4th of 4 879.2213 -- MSW, 6D. 50.4 4th of 4 886.1206 -- Clm. 8D. 58.7 2nd of 4. (3600 purse) 900.2504 -- Clm. 8D. 46.5 favorite in the race. 3rd of 4. Snagged by his next owner, ebucher. 921.3115 -- MClm. 8T. 46.8 8th of 12. 4700 purse. 942.1905 -- Clm. 8D. 67.2 1st of 4!! 7500 claim tag. 963.7009 -- Str!! 8D. 54.7 9th of 13. 984.2004 -- Clm. 8D 54.7 (5K tag) 998.4108 -- Clm. 8D. 51.0 (2k tag) Still owned by ebucher, but will be acquired by another owner in the auction. He seemed to like Iowa a lot. And Pennsylvania. Why didn't his previous owner go farther than 8f? He's shown some aptitude . . . really doesn't appear to be a Turf horse, although hard to say after 1 race. | |||||
| 114 | Madman ID: 29246911 Fri, May 04, 16:08 |
StLCards Yep! I think there is a Derby -- the Bluegrass Derby. In fact, that's why 2 year olds are so popular in the sim, I think. Everyone is looking for a 2 year old this year to develop into the Derby for next year?? Something like that. BTW, races won't be run until later Saturday, in case anyone missed that announcement. | |||||
| 115 | Madman ID: 29246911 Fri, May 04, 16:14 |
Toral II -- Steadily with Hulk. 8 races, average speed 58. In addition to the 5 races you see on the screen, this horse has run: 827.3913 -- 6D 51.5 in MSW, 9th of 12 879.4609 -- 6.5T, 54.2 in MSW, 9th of 12 907.1109 -- 8.5T, 58.7 in MC, 5th of 12 Lowest claiming tag was 5000. Only one owner -- tamif. | |||||
| 116 | Toral ID: 452461218 Fri, May 04, 17:36 |
Madman -- thanx for the info on my auction types. Appreciated. I'm trying to remember why I thought Judge Gilded interesting -- oh ya, he's *never* raced on an off track. Proper Reality, Mr Prospector, and Raise a Native are all fine off-influences. He's certainly worth $804! Already, competing with you, I know what it feels like for some stable boy who's graduated to own a stable, competing with the Stronach stable! But that's fine. My special love (in RL betting, and in the sim) is off-track horses (as well as turf types who've never been raced there, or only once, which is a more obvious point of selection.) I'm discovering that getting these types *into* off-races when sharp is a difficult problem. I know when I first discovered the Tomlinson numbers, money could be made (mostly by shreweder types than me) if you discovered that it had had rained unexpectedly overnight...or go to a track and see the simulcast and find that this has happened at some other track. People who had calculated their *own* off-track stats before anybody published them made the big dough, I expect. Growing up in Fort Erie (then an A track for 2 months during the summer, when all Ontario top action moved there [Woodbine closing down] and knowing some reg type horse people, I love trying to make something of a nothing horse. (Fort Erie is now a B track all-year round, except that my tradition one leg of Canada's Triple Crown is still held there. It now survives as a track only because a casino has been opened there.) May have to add another stable to do this -- if the sim lasts that long. Winning a stakes isn't really in my future plans. (Altho, as I've mentioned, if breeding reopens, I want to breed a speedster using Carson City.) As a computer expert, you could have more than just sim success in your future: see this article by Andy Beyer, America's greatest racing writer: Computerized Bet-placing Toral | |||||
| 117 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sat, May 05, 01:28 |
I can totally see that betting thing. And it does present a big problem for the stables, I would think. Reminds me a lot of sludge's problem/program for football pickoff awhile back :). . . Judge Gilded has not run any off-tracks at all. If it's the off-tracks you're interested (and I totally agree with your idea that off-track specialists are either missing from the sim, or that sim players are vastly under-utilizing this fact), then you'd love my program. I break down all results by Dirt, Turf and Off-Track success. Question, however. What is an off-track? Obviously the "sloppy" rating is an off-track. Yielding is an off-track. But what about a "good" track (either turf or dirt)? Right now, I'm calling anything not "Fast" or "Firm" an off-track . . . not sure if that matches the sim . . . | |||||
| 118 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sat, May 05, 01:46 |
Dang. I can't submit my claimers. . . sigh . . . At any rate, I saw your Larot auction picks. What do you see in Mister Era? Some more history (in addition to the 5 races you see): 865.1207 -- 8f, D fast, 46.9 11/12 837.3711 -- 8f, MC, T firm, 52.3, 5/12 816.2804 -- 6f, D, MSW, fast, 50.0 7/10 802.2801 -- 6.5f, D, MSW, fast, 43.0, 10/11 Only one owner, fbfan. OK. He's young. But he's even run on an off-track. No offense intended. Just asking what you are seeing in him so I can learn. Or is this a "waster" horse to kill off for breeding? BTW, 48.8 overall average in 9 races. His owner, fbfan, became active about 8 months ago, and has 12 wins in 81 races so far. Mister ERA was a horse in his original stable, along with Czar Bailing. fbfan was astute enough to snag stakes / high allowance horse Starke El(IRE) from the claiming ranks and return him to dirt performance . . . At any rate, your bid on "The Dude Abides" is incredible. Man. If you get him for that price, that is a HUGE steal. Especially if you are a fan of the Big Lombowski. Same thing I think for fair goddess . . . although her performances have been even less stellar. Still, nice breeding, and just not raced enough yet to give up on. | |||||
| 119 | GoatLocker ID: 23727611 Sat, May 05, 15:52 |
Madman, In RL anything not Fast or Firm is an off track, so you are looking at it right from that perspective. Not sure about the sim yet. Cliff | |||||
| 120 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Sat, May 05, 16:03 | Are you able to get activity pointsright now? I've clicked on ads but every time I tabulate it says 0. hmmm. just part of the transition to the new server? | |||||
| 121 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sat, May 05, 17:48 |
GoatLocker Cool. Thanks for the info. I bet the sim is the same. Get your stable yet? StLCards I just logged in and was able to get my activity points . . . This whole week has been very messed up. I presume things will get better when they get a new server. Monarchos Congrats. Anyone have money on him? :) I'm going with Budawithaslew (post 10) in the Bluegrass Derby (sim) . . . 1019.0315. Put $10 on place and $10 on show. Of course, I'm such a wus, I "covered" those $20 with 20 $1 bets that are guaranteed to pay $2 each . . . | |||||
| 122 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sun, May 06, 01:21 |
Week 1019 Comments Wow. This sim is hard . . . Do you guys want your speed stats? I presume they won't be posted until later. If you want to view your races BEFORE hearing about them, then SKIP the rest of this post . . . To fill some space before I talk about your races let me say this: Madman999 is in deep crap. I got another 2nd from East A La Run -- in exactly the same 73.9 speed from before. That was good. But my two 3 yo's that I had going today fell apart on the turf. This is looking more and more and more like a 1 horse stable -- and that 1 horse is a low class MSW and then Claimer level horse . . . AAARRRGHHH. Why wasn't I more careful with my first selections?? A grand total of 15 breeding points have been won by this stable. Time to go for the claimers and auction horses 100%. Madman3 -- the newest -- is looking only marginally better. I only raced the 2 5 yo's that I drafted. They placed well, but I was a bit disappointed in how they ran -- especially considering the fact that my other two horses that are unblocked are total dawgs. One of them placed second in 80.6 in a tough route turf race in Italy. The other managed to win the toughest maiden race there is -- the 48.7K MSW in California. However, the competition, for whatever reason, was totally uninspiring. And the horse's speed rating was a mediocre 72.5. Given that both horses are 5 year olds and supposed to be my studs, I was disappointed . . . Oh well, I'll take the 17 breed points, and have this stable laughing at Madman999 all the way home . . . Rotciv had a very weird day. First, my two claimers. Babified Opossum won $5,275, more than the price I paid for him, with a solid 2nd of 4 in his Indiana race. The favored stud ran away with it. Diver J. B., who I view as a high level claimer, was in a low-stakes allowance race b/c of competition (I like scoring). He also finished 2nd of 4, pulling in 1725 -- a little under half of what I paid for him. Nice to get some breeding points, however. Next, my two auction aquisitions. Rate Learn ($2K), snuck in 4th in a 4K claimer race, putting his earning under me at $500. The breeding points are what I like :) . I said to heck with it and put Jinx Understand into a low-class Maiden Claimer. He ended up dusting the low-class field with an impressive sprint drive and his 2nd fastest speed rating ever (15 starts). Kind of cool to take a $1,106 horse from auction, win $1,400, and break his maiden. Now if someone only claimed him, all will be perfect :) -- that would be something like a 500% return in 3 weeks. Although I do think I can find some low-level claiming races that he can be successful at, so if I still have him, that's cool, too. Need those breeding points. The two defending winners: December Chop stayed in the NW and raced in Northern California. He was ranked to finish 6th, and that's exactly what happened. A number of top-tier horses jumped into the race late and screwed this one for me. Although the winner finished in an uninspired (for him) 89, so this race was up for the taking if December Chop had improved on his previous 81 . . . as it was, he struggled home in 80.4 . . . Zinc Dad, the seven year old, showed a ton of heart in his race. If you recall, I took a big risk and flew him to Northern Florida to run on the turf. Against the small field of 6, he pulled a major upset. Apparently the faster-rated horses just couldn't handle the turf. Zinc Dad came back strong with a finish kick, to put his two-race winning total up to $24K -- by far my best runner. I'm going to give most of my older horses 2 full weeks of rest, so this rotciv stable will be mostly inactive for the next couple of weeks. Except I may ask Rate Learn to fall on his sword for the team and try to squeeze in another race here. Dang, I need those breeding points. ___________________________________ OK, you've had your warning! Here are your speed ratings: StLCards French Iron -- 51.5, 11/12 Erica Bark -- 63.7 6/14 Dealer Dixie(aus) -- 52.7, 13/14 Hot Republic -- 61.9, 10/14 Analysis: I bet the results for French Iron and Dealer Dixie were influenced by the 98%, so I wouldn't worry about that at this point. I've been using my program to track "what makes a horse tick" in the sim, and I think a *very* good strategy is to run a horse off-his track or distance at less than 100%, and then 1-3 weeks later (when sharp) come back at 100% at his favorite distance. Changing distances seems to boost ratings a bit, too. I'm a bit perplexed by Erica Bark. It's possible that she just didn't like the distance/condition combo. But a 64 rating for a 3 year old isn't bad -- they can improve dramatically over the first few races, it seems. Plus, some horses get a tremendous boost from being sharp. Ditto all that for Hot Republic. BTW, your start %'s were 53-79-3-0 for French, Erica, Dealer and Hot. The 3% for Dealer and the 98% probably doomed him. No biggie. larot Chief Tom -- 68.1, 8/14. After a 60 day lay-off, Chief returned to action. This was a nice little toner race of some sort. Just by the numbers, the 3 races suggest dirt, sprint, on-track to me. Although it's too early to say. . . He started at 34%, and given the $40 payoff for a $2 bet, this finish had to make his owner at least a little pleased. jkaye Net Can -- 6fD, 61.6, 9/12 Late Beau -- 5.5fD, 54.0, 13/14 Midget Talent -- 9fD, 53.1, 10/12 Nice to see Midget Talent back and healthy. Poor Net Can. talk about the wrong race to enter. A 8,100 purse for a MSW in Mexico. The competition SHOULD suck! Instead, Their Pinnacles takes off and wins with a 91.5 speed. You gotta hate that. This performance probably took JKaye (and his owner) totally by surprise. But it shouldn't have. Here's why: in week 1012, TP ran a 9.5D race in 58.2. He was apparently instructed to go for the lead in that race -- his second route race. This is a classic effect of changing distances -- return to the horses potential at his best distance, and also of giving your jockeys riding instructions, I bet. Consider (same horse): Weeks 851 to 865: 8fD in 63.7 followed by a 6fD in 80.2. Drop distance, get a great result. previously he had run 81 at 6fD and 79 at 6.5fD. The second place horse was taken by total suprise. But he shouldn't have been in this race, either. He had gone an amazing 93.3 speed in Northern California over the exact same distance in his previous race. And an 83.8 3 weeks before at 6.5f. This is a very frustrating race for Net Can, and for me. My Rotciv stable is pulling out more cash earnings than the owners of Their Pinnacles or this 2nd place horse . . . and I have HALF the ammo these guys do. It's also frustrating because it reinforces what I suspected before this week -- you simply MUST scan the competition if you actually want to have a chance of winning. That's a big pain in the arse, I know. But this race illustrates it. I was really disappointed in Late Beau's performance. Not sure what to make of it, other than it's time to go for the MC races, probably between 6 and 7f. I'd like to see Midget Talent drop down in distance to 6 or 7f on dirt and see what he could do. he'll still need a weak field, but as Rakida's Plug (madman3) illustrates, they do exist. Afterall, Rakida's Plug only won with a 72 speed. Just happened to be against a weak field. _____________________ Those are all the races I could find for any of us. It's going to be a long couple of weeks for me as my stables rest and recover. I'm not seeing the improvement that I hoped from some of them . . . I think I need to be a bit more patient. I can hardly wait until the claim information comes out . . . Did I lose any horses (and get some much needed $$$)? Did I get the 2 year olds I wanted? I put a bid from rotciv in for horse 38170. I can see toral shaking his head saying "What the hell is madman doing that for?" He costs $20K and 5 breeding points. He's also never been raced. He finished 3rd of 4 today in a 5.5f Turf race . . . His breeding? Straight StrikexGarthornxDance of Life. Straight Strike is the progeny of Mr. Prospector, Garthorn from Believe it/Cyane/In reality and Dance of Life from Nijinsky II. I dunno. The breeding attracted my serious attention. I figured for 5 BP's, at the very least I could turn him around and unload him for a lot of cash at the auction . . . And I (correctly) guessed that I'd pick up a bunch more BP today (ended up +44, I think, for a total of 105 on the year). I dunno. I kind of hope that I don't get him. . . without the breeding ticker, I can't be sure that it was a good idea . . . At any rate, the fact that Rotciv now has more than 100 breeding points means that I now have enough to put West on the Fan (9 yo, Male) to stud, where I can use his Lear FanxQuack breeding for my first hombred . . . I still have to get him in 6 races, however. . . Should be just enough time to acquire enough BP's for a really nice sire, don't you think? :) If I can average 15 BP's per week for the next 15 weeks, then I should be able to turn West on the Fan into a really nice homebred by, say, August or Sept? AAARRRGHHHH. This game takes patience!!!! | |||||
| 123 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sun, May 06, 12:03 |
Week 1019 Claimers Madman3: Elocat's Boys, 4yo, M: Never been tried on turf, and only has run 2 route races, the better of which was an off-track performance. His best speed was 87.3 at 7.5f, so I think there is real reason to believe that his best races are ahead of him. For $3,500, it was worth a shot. He was one of the top rated claimers this week in my book. Our Nooses $4K. Well raced, he's a typical claimer, IMO. He achieved a lifetime best of 86.9 over 7f, which seems like his best distance. He's coming off a 3rd place claiming performance for studkenny3 (worth a paltry $280, but breeding points). This means that I can now enter him in low-level Starter Allowance races, hehehe (I think). Thank you, studkenny3. His previous claiming was a 20K race in week 1005. I think studkenny3 acquired him for $25,000 in a claimer. Again, hehehehe. Reminds me of babified opossum, but I don't think he has any Turf potential. But with good to great breeding (In The Zone x Forty-Niner -- inbred Nasrullah line), I couldn't pass this colt up. Madman999 After 3 weeks of trying, Madman999 finally hit the claiming boards. Royalty Bloom 2 yo Colt. Just had an utterly horrible race, however, at 5.5f over Dirt -- 35 speed, 4th of 4. I dunno. I got suckered by this horse's pedigree (Green Street from Green Dancer / NijinskyII line X Cannon Shell (Torsion / Promise II / Never Bend) X Mr. Prospector). There's very little history in the sim of Mr. Prospector as a dam-dam-sire, but I figure it can't be all bad. I need to do more research on this horses sire and dam-sire line, but I'm hoping that a 5.5fD race is just not what the doctor ordered. Maybe the Nijinsky blood runs strong and this horse can be a turf router? Only time will tell. Of course, the temptation would be to float this guy in auction . . . but I probably will try to race him again in a month or so. The drawback of 2 yo's is that you have to wait forever for them to develop. Light Jupiter 2866, 5K cost. Another 4 yo Colt. I really wanted this guy, putting a claim in from all 3 stables. I thought he was ready to break out. Little did I know. This week he just posted his third 90+ rating -- a 92.8!! Wu-hoo, I think. Breeding was very solid to great: Evansville Slew (via Seattle Slew) x Flourescent Light (typo in the sim, I think. Herbager / Ribot progeny) x Green Dancer (OK, I like the Green Dancer line, OK, OK. I'm over-rating it. . . :) I think it's stronger as the dam-dam sire). At any rate, I figured it was a matter of time before this colt broke out. I'm hoping that he just did. He actually had a 97 speed hidden way back in week 690 as a youngster, hehehe. The value of writing computer code to search the whole sim!! He really does seem best at the 6fD races, but his only Turf try was as a 3 yo at 8f. It was a horrible run -- his worst in the sim -- 51 speed -- the only time he's run worse than 70.9!! I think I got a serious runner here, hehehe :). About time Madman999 caught a break. Majestic Yodel 3067, 4 yo F, 5K cost. I'm not going to tell this Fillie this, but I could have done without this acquisition. She was my last choice. Serves me right for filling out my lists. At any rate, she's serviceable, and young. I hope. She just got clocked at a 37.2 speed rating!! Aaargh. As long as she's not hurt, believe it or not, but I don't hold this against her. She just HATES Turf-Distance. In fact, she HATES distance. Her idiot owners don't look at their race histories, apparently. I would have thought that her performances from weeks 500 to 750 would have mad e this obvious to most observers. Oh well. Hopefully she'll respond to me when I put her back on the dirt from 6-8f, where she's gone 80+ 3 times, including an 86.3 at 6f, under one of her previous owners, artigal. She has a great W/L record, so I'm hoping that she's one of those strong competitor types. The big debate for me will be whether to enter her back in the higher-stake claimers or the allowance races. She has a nice low tag now for the Starter Allowances, so that may be the way to go. At any rate, sorry for the long-windedness. But I figure this sort of sharing should help you tell me where I'm an idiot. Or, if I'm OK, then maybe it will help you guys figure out the sim. | |||||
| 124 | GoatLocker ID: 23727611 Sun, May 06, 16:14 |
Still don't have my stable. Sent Mike an email earlier today. Will wait and see what he has to say. Cliff | |||||
| 125 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sun, May 06, 18:23 |
Goatlocker There's a note on the site to all prospective stables that no new accounts are being issued at the moment. They said to wait 2-4 days. One bad thing about the site is the overall design. Announcements like that aren't obvious at all to newbie players . . . Regarding the Claimers The CPU Value (whatever the hell that means) seems to agree with my assessment of the above claimers: a) Light Jupiter is $475K b) Our Nooses $200K c) Elocat's Boys $190K d) Majestic Yodel $35 (ouch!!) e) Royalty Boom $120K. Granted, the CPU values can be too low if the horse has been misplaced -- and claimers tend to have been misplaced (or you wouldn't have claimed them!). Still, I feel good about Light Jupiter. And no horses are hurt! An extra bonus . . . I have 4 veteran horses sharp in Madman3, so I'll be racing 6 in that stable this weekend. My other two will be getting the week off . . . I was charged transportation costs from WA to Northern Florida ($2910). Just a warning. The $300 cap seems to be applicable. | |||||
| 126 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sun, May 06, 22:36 |
Goatlocker This was posted on the site this evening. I think it explains the lack of response. Caught them at a bad time: 5/6/2001 Hopefully everyone had a decent Kentucky Derby weekend. J I had Monarchos (thanks to my buddy and ex-bandmate Bob from the horse racing game) a bit, but not enough to make a killing. Ah well…anyway, onto serious stuff. First off, double props to Jeremy (for enduring this painful server period while having a wife and 2 kids), Bill Greenhaw (for busting his hump all week to clear up server problems), Edison Bryant (for helping me when I couldn't get a hold of Bill), and Zgreat (who called Jeremy and I whenever the server went down). I tried to contact Jeremy to see if there's anyone else I should thank here, but he was unavailable (probably trying to make things up to the missus I'm sure) so, if you are one of them, thanks as well! Also, thanks to the majority of the overly understanding players. This has been our hardest week since I had to move everything over to the dedicated server last January. I'm sure the week to come will be no cakewalk either. But (again, thanks to Bill and Edison), things seem to have stabilized nicely over the last 18-24 hours. Let's hope they stay this way. As for e-mails : I have not responded to many, even those marked as important or urgent. The inbox is still a mess and, given the way things went last week, there was little opportunity to respond to many. As long as the current server stays stable, I will begin sorting through them tonight after I post new races. I also wanted to make a few things clearer than I had in the past on why the "sudden move" to a new server, as some people seem to believe this was a drastic, possibly unnecessary move potentially aimed at forcing people to pay for the game. First off, for the record, the rental on our current dedicated server runs nearly $700 a month (which is being comfortably afforded by banner advertising at the moment). We had planned on trying to merely upgrade it to Windows 2000 but, after discussing it with or current ISP, we were told that would not be possible. The new server will, at least at first, not require additional funding due to the banner advertising. Given the current market state, however, it is necessary that we look at alternative methods of keeping the game going uninterrupted incase of a sudden "dry-up" of advertising dollars. Given the state of the third party advertising companies currently available to a site like ours, this could honestly happen at the drop of a hat. Instead of having to suddenly "close shop" or instantly begin charging because of our lack of foresight, it seemed viable to at least begin considering other options. If banner advertising gets a reboot, then we'll all be fine regardless. But, as a small business, we can't put all of our eggs into a currently porous basket. As mentioned before, our players have a much better idea about what is fair and what is not, and we will take each suggestion (except those asking for the entire site to be pay only) as a serious one. So, although the timing of possible perks to paying members versus non-paying members was brought up at the same time as the posting that we were moving to a new server, this was a bridge we had planned on attempting to eventually cross before it burned down and possibly took the whole city with it. Anyway, with some luck), the new server should be set up by tomorrow. Bill and I will try to have the site moved there by next weekend's update. At that time, the site should be ready to cruise once again at full (and at even faster) levels. Wish us luck! -- Mike We should probably start another thread. I know, I know. It's mostly my fault. But this page is getting heavy :). | |||||
| 127 | GoatLocker ID: 23727611 Sun, May 06, 23:24 |
Thanks Madman, No response, but understand why. Hopefully things will get straightened out before too long. Cliff | |||||
| 128 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Mon, May 07, 00:37 | Bad weekend race wise for me. Dismal finishes and 1 horse came up as lay-off this week. I guess that means injured? At least my 2 claimers from last week are now sharp, so I'll race them this week and rest the others. | |||||
| 129 | Madman ID: 29246911 Mon, May 07, 01:38 |
I dunno what layoff means. Rotciv's Alot Under Run came up "Layoff" after his race in week 998. He's still lay-off. Grrr. Don't worry. Just look at my Madman999 record (winless in 13 tries, not even really that close), and you'll see that this game is HARD. Or JKaye. Or Toral. Somehow, I've gotten lucky with Rotciv (11 of 13 races in top 5, with one 6th and one injury). That stable has older horses, so I don't know how long the string will go . . . It's possible that you guys with younger horses are in the better position in the long run. Horses do develop. I've been using my program to analyze expected early performances from horses. Although it's very unlikely that you have a stakes grade horse with a sub 60 maiden, you might still have a 75-80 speed guy once you find the right distance/turf combination. The key is to find that correct combo. And to be patient. I've seen more than one owner give up on a 55-65 horse after 4-5 races, and then see that horse turn into a 90-95 GIII-GII stakes calibre guy. All my horses that have placed in their first races haven't improved for their second ones . . . Who came up injured? That actually might be a good sign. He must have run a reasonably quick race, anyway. Talent? Normally, if they are hurt, they go sub 30 . . . unless the race is very, very short, I suppose. _____________________________________ Anyone willing to test drive my Horse Tracker program when I'm done? It's written in Visual Basic, so you just need Windows. Although you may need a 1024x768 or higher screen resolution . . .I'm not sure how it looks in 800x600. . . I swear, this thing is so sweet. I've just been sitting here and playing around with it. . . There is still some idiot-proofing to go on, but man alive, it's so nice. At least in my opinion. I may be looking in the wrong direction, too. I'm also not sure how long the download time will take. Anyone know what I need to post to the web? The executable is small, but if I have to give you all the *.dll files and such, then the download turns into a few megs quick. | |||||
| 130 | GoatLocker ID: 26058212 Mon, May 07, 13:12 |
Madman, Would love to try it out if and when I get up and running. Cliff | |||||
| 131 | JKaye Sustainer ID: 4711592917 Mon, May 07, 20:54 |
After last week, Net Can is listed as a Lay-Off. Only Late Beau is sharp, but I will probably give all my horses(except Net Can of course) another race this week, probably at .98, after .95 last week. My horses all had a big rest so I am thinking maybe I will work them back up to 100%. This game is very hard. And what makes it so hard is that my horses have been so bad that I can't even see potential. My blocked horse could be great after 9 more races, but other than that, I see no talent. I greatly appreciate Madman's advice, and I will take it with Midget Talent. But as a whole, I don't see many positives. At this point, I am looking to get to race 20, race Light Award a lot to hopefully have some success. I can also begin thinking about breeding a horse, and once I get some cash, working the claimers. | |||||
| 132 | Madman ID: 29246911 Mon, May 07, 21:59 |
jkaye You can also do my Madman999 approach. I've got no talent. However, I'm hittng the claimers hard while I'm still under my 20 race limit. I've got 2 more slots. After I get all my slots filled, then I'll finish my experimentation with my dawgs, and start sending them where they likely belong -- maiden claimers. Keep experimenting around. A 55 speed horse can turn into an 80+ if the distance and/or turf is wrong. I honestly haven't done much with this 95-98% stuff -- going to win most of the time. I think that's probably OK if they are in position to score (like Rotciv -- 11/13 or Madman3 2/2). But you may be right about trying to develop the lower-tier younger horses -- start them out more conservatively. Here's a great example of what can happen if you do that - - Lordpye showed me a horse of his where he ran it at 95% for a 65 speed winner one week. The horse came back groggy, then sharp. In the next race, it ran almost exactly 3 sec's faster in a much tougher win over the same distance. Can't remember the speed number. . . I dunno. I'm still working this all out, myself. But I'm going to have to do something with my young Madman999 horses. Heck, I've got 2 dawgs in Madman3 and I have no clue where to place them. I'd like to go straight to claimers and get rid of them . . . I doubt the computer would let me, however. | |||||
| 133 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Mon, May 07, 22:46 |
Maman, I would be happy to try out your program. I can try it at work where I have a 21" hi-res monitor and high speed network access. Hot Republic is the horse that came up layoff. Hope to have some luck this week racing Hero Grub and Duke Ice when they are sharp. Since they have both won races I'm not sure where I'm supposed to race them now. Allowance race? I could run Erika Bark again on a longer track, but might wait a week. Hopefully I can get some activity points. I finally watched my races and it was a pretty sad sight. | |||||
| 134 | Madman ID: 29246911 Tue, May 08, 00:13 |
Hey, guys, I set up a link to the program. Here's the related thread: Sim Sports Search beta release announcement . I'll check out your stable, StLCards. See if I can come up with anything. I'll probably have the best insights with Hero and Duke, since I'll be able to use my database program to track them :). | |||||
| 135 | Madman ID: 29246911 Tue, May 08, 02:31 |
Hero Grub This poor horse. 3 races in a row. Then a layoff, and getting thrown cold into a 2 miler. There were some other good horses in that race, but none were ready for a 16f race . . . I'd ignore that speed rating over 16f. Just looking at his race histories: a) He starts from the back -- at least in sprints. If you get a lousy jockey, set the horse for a 10% start or so. Good jockey, let him choose, I think. b) I'd try a 7 to 7.5f low allowance sort of race. Quite frankly, he may look attractive right now in claiming, so I wouldn't risk that. I'd also put him at 96-98%. It's possible that he's tired. He's been raced a lot, and I'm nervous about that 16f outing . . . I'd try to gradually lengthen him out to about 9f to see if you've got a real find here. This horse has a very good 46 DP, and it's well-balanced in speed and endurance. I'm going to increase my enthusiasm for this horse after doing more research. I'd bet that you have a real find here -- if not in the absolute sense, at least for the price you paid. But I'd also bet that his early abuse may mean that you'll have to treat him carefully for the first month or two -- that's why I'd go 7-8f and then buildup. _________________________________________ I already said I like Duke Ice. But I've learned a bit more since I made that previous statement, so I think Hero Grub may actually have more long run potential. What I've been tracking is the relative lack of success of horses with extremely high DI indices in the sim. Duke Ice's DP is HEAVILY weighted toward speed. So it makes me nervous. In real life, he'd be a good 7-8f runner, I think. In the sim, I'm guessing more at 6-7.5, which is where he's been tried more. But you never know. His stats: 3-5-3-0-5 in 22 races is excellent -- that means he's been in the money 16/22 races. At this point, you have a few options. First, he hasn't used up ANY allowance conditions. If you want to keep him around awhile (not a bad idea), you might want to consider entering him into the weakest allowance races you can find. The bigger issue with Duke Ice as I break it down is a similar problem to what I'm having with Kentucky Project -- how can you get their performances in the mid to longer sprints back to previous levels? And I can't really answer that. You want him to race like he did last fall -- in week 823 when he clocked an 86 speed. What I might do is the following. He just finished a 7f D race. I'd look for an 7.5 or 8f D race, and put him at 97%. If he succeeds, bump him up to 8 or 8.5f either right away, or after a drop down to 6.5. If he doesn't succeed at the 8f distance, then the idea is that the longer race may stretch him out a bit. He's a mid-pack to lead sort of horse, so a bit of endurance might help him when he drops down. He hasn't run anything over 7.0f since his first two 3 yo races, so I'd try to stretch him upward. For example, you know that he's never run a route race in the dirt when sharp. He may be getting stale at the 6-7f distance. If the sim does that :). Your only other alternative is to look for weak 6-7f Dirt sprints and go for breeding points from claim races and easier allowance fields, simultaneously hoping that his previous owner wasn't racing him sharp. I personally think he's worth a shot at stretching his distance. Maybe even at 100% if you have a weak field . . . I don't think the sim will let him go over 8f . . . but you should try 7.5 to 8 at least once. | |||||
| 136 | Toral ID: 1418917 Wed, May 09, 18:01 |
Great recap, Madman. Well, 5 horses from my so-called stables entered this week, in a total of 9 races. Only Mine Devastation not sharp -- needs a toner up. I must figure out some way in the future to get the horse into a race when sharp -- the second choice must be a sure thing; can't enter the horse in 2 events with 40 entrants each any more. Just checked the list of 10 horses I submitted for my larot stable and what do I see but Midget Talent. Was in my top 10 but didn't get him. Saddled with the pig Barefoot Morris. Madman 118 -- all I saw in Mister Era was a possible 101 dollar horse. Even as stew he'd be worth that much. Someone saw more, though, as he went for over a thou. Forgot to check the new owner's stable to see if there's any reason to think he knows something I didn't. My hopes of stealing The Dude Abides failed miserably. Both stables up to 9. Got to go -- Leafs on. Go Leafs Go! Toral | |||||
| 137 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Wed, May 09, 22:37 |
Sorry about the Leafs Toral. Cujo is one of my favorites. Looks like I'm resting all of my horses this week. Had an all day meeting and tried to hurry up and enter a couple of races, but it was already 5:50 CT, so I was too late. Probably just as well, as I didn't have any rhyme nor reason behing selecting the races I did other than to try to follow Madman's suggestions and enter allowance races at 7f. Oh well, good luck everybody. | |||||
| 138 | StLCards Sustainer ID: 3505622 Sun, May 13, 00:37 | Thanks for the tip on Ag Bomber. Nice stretch run. Won one race and lost the other I bet on. Net profit of $600 on $2K bet. No horses sharp this week at all. I'm thinking I need to start a new stable. Out of 4 weeks I've only had 3 sharp horses and none of them even raced. (My fault both times, entered too late). Guess I'll just enter them for a practice run this week to see if I can get them sharp. Might also look for another claimer at auction or a race. | |||||
| 139 | Madman ID: 29246911 Sun, May 13, 12:09 |
There are some awesome horses available out there right now. Make my Madman999 stable look silly. . . Regarding the sharp horses bit, you have to race a horse once before there's even a chance they'll be sharp. After that, you need to figure out their cycle and stick with it. I've blown a few horses myself. But horses can compete RTG. 2 of my 5 wins have come RTG. | |||||
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