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Subject: Sim Sports Horse Racing - Week 1320
Posted by: StLCards
- Sustainer [2504849] Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 15:45
cab: cab,cab31,pepe31,bacup,cab35
Madman: Madman999, madman3, madman4, rotciv
StLCards: stlcards, stlcards1, stlcards2, stlcards3, devil01
Toral: toral, larot, toral2, toral6 |
| 1 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 15:54
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I have a well bred 2yo filly that came in to the stable sharp this week. My first inclination is to race this week, but I don't want to ruin the horse before it can ever develop. I've seen posts saying that Feb. is too early to race a 2yo. Does the sim care?
If I trained the horse for a month and then raced, and assuming all other variables were the same, would the horse be expected to run faster in a month than it would be if I raced it this week?
And should I race at an effort below 100%? I have always raced first time horses at 100% to see what they can do. This time I am considering going at 98%.
Last question is about jockey settings. My thought is that if I get a good jockey then I should let them decide the race style and then I could adapt from there.
Here is a thought from the MO board when someone asked this person why they set the riding instructions for the first race:
If they are front-runners, they'll break on top and then settle in behind a couple of horses; if they're confirmed closers, they'll break slow, but be hustled up into the pack.
Generally, I want them to be in the mix for at least part of the race, but I also want them to "get a little dirt thrown in their faces".
If I have a good horse, it will respond regardless of its normal racing style, and it will hang around for most of the race (at least to the top of the stretch).
If the horse goes to the front regardless of the riding instructions, or it can't get itself into the front part of the pack after a slow break, I know I'm going to have problems with it...
Also, since I'm going at well under 100%, by setting it for .8 instead of JS, I know that the horse will at least be pushed a little bit for the first part of the race. I just don't want it to be whipped to death down the stretch first time out.
But if you are running at less than 100% effort maybe they just don't make the kick they would make normally?
Any suggestions are more than appreciated.
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| 2 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 19:01
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I don't *know* the answers to the above. I have been following the MBs on questions like the above and have seen no authoritative answers. I will share my opinions/guesses.
1. February is almost certainly not too early to race a sim horse. (Actually it'll be March before you can next race one anyway). It would be a cruel trick if Mike allowed Feb racing with the proviso that it would ruin some race horses, without telling us that fact. It's racing before they are physically mature that harms horses. Obviously if the horse was born in December real time then racing when when it is really 1 and 2 months would be bad for it. I think we can presume that the sim acts as if any 2-year old who shows up is mature enough to race, and so racing horses now isn't going to hurt them
2. I guess whether better speeds come from racing or waiting depends on whether the sim is programmed to start a 2-year-old's improvement from birth or first race. I don't know. My instinct would be that you gain nothing from waiting.
3. I would see no need for racing under 100% effort. Racing at .90 might allow the horses to come back quicker, but I presume you are going to be cautious and give the horse 5 or 6 or 7 weeks' rest anyway so the 100% effort is no problem.
4. I think the MO advice is the kind of thing that might be smart in RL but accomplishes nothing in particular in the sim. Most of our horses -- mine anyway -- will have some dirt kicked in their faces without my taking special steps to enure it!
5. Likewise with jockey settings: let a good jock decide is the rule and I see no reason why it shouldn't be the first time out.
I have some seen some trainers recommend contrary strategies from the above -- one recommended not racing a horse until he reached his third "sharp" -- all I can say was that the examples given etc. didn't persuade me, although there is a dearth of empirical evidence on all sides of the question.
Just my reactionary thoughts.
Toral
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| 3 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Tue, Feb 26, 2002, 21:01
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Thanks Toral
I posted this question in the MO forum too. Here is one response from Redturkey2. He even references Madman, even though I've never indicated any affiliation with him. All the great stats and tools are getting the respect they deserve. If we do recruit from the Sim, this would be one possibility. A few more in MO as well.
Basically, for every trainer there is in the sim, you will find a different theory!
I'll tell you what I do for each question, and why if I have a reason. LOL
I would race her now since she's sharp. I bred most of mine a few weeks before the racing started hoping to train them to sharp for their first race. None of them showed up sharp on the week they were trained for! It's almost impossible to get them sharp when you want them before their first race, so I would take advantage of the sharp now.
Whether you race it now, or a month from now, the first race is almost a throwaway regardless. I consider it more a warmup and don't expect to be able to determine a whole lot from it.
I always race mine at 100%. Even if you set them at .92, if they are near the lead the jockey will race them all out. And if I race it at .95, that just leaves me with more questions. How fast would it have ran if I had it at 100%?? And those that were raced at less than 100% have been showing up Needs Rest as well as those at 100%. You either get lucky or you don't when it comes to the condition the horse returns in.
I actually have 2 seperate thoughts on the jockey settings. I always get good jockeys because I have lots of clickpoints. So I'm never worried about setting it to jockey select. However, last year I got into the habit of sending them out on 1.00 to go for the lead in their first start. That gives you an idea of what kind of speed they have, which can be useful info. Not really sure why I stopped doing that?? LOL
I also share a theory about jockey settings with Madman. If you set a horse on jockey select every time, you will notice that his start percentage will remain fairly consistent as you add furlongs to it's races, until you start getting close to the horses maximum distance. When getting close the horse will begin running much closer to the front of the field. Just a theory I'm still studying, but seems to be true so far. Another tool to give you an idea of a horses distance limit.
Hope some of this helped, even though I know lots will not see eye to eye with me on this! Part of what makes this game great. There's always another theory to try out! Good luck!
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| 4 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Wed, Feb 27, 2002, 00:14
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Holy cow! I don't know who redturkey2 is. But independent verification of my start% theory is kind of cool. I've actually run it by some other knowledgeable sim vets, and I haven't been laughed away yet, hahaha. I cannot be certain of the theory, however. I really want to stretch Sal at the Bell or Private Count (both front running horses) to beyond their max distance to see if it holds true. But, their next races are both planned already. . .
I also agree with what he said about there's not definitive answer. In addition to what he said, I can add some comments about statistical modelling and what those ideas imply about the likely answers to your questions.
1) Is Feb. too early? To record a "first start" date relative to age would require additional variables to be carried along that would periodically modify a horse's permanent ability. Not only would you have to remember how far into the year it is currently (which we KNOW he DOES track), you'd have to track how long the HORSE has been in the sim.
A much better way to do it -- and the way I think he does it -- is that he simply has a single variable that reflects the horse's age, and on January 1, he manually runs a program to increase that age by 1.
Furthermore, he has a general variable that governs the ability of 2yo's, 3yo's, etc., on up. Periodically during the year, he will increase the ability of 2yo's and 3 yo's, and decrease the ability of the oldest horses. He likely does this at the same time he updates the amount of rest required. It's possible these things are pre-programmed in, but I'm guessing he adjusts them every couple of months manually.
At any rate, to pick on certain horses that raced early and to differentiate them from the general effect I mentioned before would take a conscious effort that doesn't seem consistent with the rest of the sim programming.
2) NO. The ability of a horse is governed by an overall age factor, a horse-specific ability factor, and a horse-specific maturity factor. The only reason you'd expect it to improve from race 1 to race 2 is if Mike updates the ability levels between races 1 and 2. It has nothing to do with the fact the second race is actually a second race, or related to the fact that the horse has been "in training" longer. Again, too complicated to keep track of.
3) Never race at below 100%, unless your horse is out-classed in the race and you wish you had scratched. You want an honest evaluation of the horse's ability -- especially early. Even at that, I'm pretty sure jockeys sometimes back off on the horse in certain situations. It's already complicated enough -- don't make it worse! Just my O.
4) Let the jockey set the ride, unless your jockey sucks. Especially early in a horse's career. You want to get as much info. about the horse as possible. The start% can be a valuable piece of info. If you draw a good jock, and tell him to start at a given%, you are giving up that chance to get a read on your horse's style.
Not to mention the possibly incredibly valuable knowledge the start% might say about your horse's max distance!
Also, I think the first MO resident comment you are citing here is somewhat flawed -- he/she has it backwards. The reason why they hang around at the end is that they are a quality horse. The reason that others are towards the front early is that they are over their max distance, or over-their heads in the race. This can happen even if they do not jump to the front. Jumping to the front is determined visually by a single variable -- start%*finish speed.
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| 5 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Wed, Feb 27, 2002, 22:56
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It seems like I really screwed this up. Drew into race .0713 and am 2nd favorite at 9/2 behind Excuse Me Mr. at 7/2 (Broad Brush x Mr. Prospector x Danzig).
I forgot that jock settings were reset at the start of the year, so I got the top rated jock (for the year). 0 yrs. experience and a total of 10 races lifetime. D'Oh! D'Oh!! D'Oh!!! or should I say, Stupid! Stupid!! Stupid!!!
How is this jock going to know anything about how to run my horse? He does have 2 wins in 10 starts, but........
So now should I set the jockey settings? I still wouldn't know what to set them to. Maybe .8 for grins? or just see what this jock can do?
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| 6 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Wed, Feb 27, 2002, 23:45
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Time for Sixth Deputy to prove himself this week. After a dirt sprint LTO he moves back to a mile turf event in GA, race 3908. Running from the 2 post with a decent jock, I have nothing but confidence that he will duplicate his 109 on turf this week. At 7/1 odds he is far from the favorite, but he is well placed to win this one.
River of Gold Again Race 0713. As mentioned above a bad jock selection for this 2yo filly, but being Sharp could make up for that. Looks good to me.
Hardly Piddle 5/2 favorite in a MC (2005).
Sally Plow is gettng a turf try again this week. Probably won't work out, but guaranteed a 5th in race 4203 NW3L Allw race.
Rich Wine will also experiment with the grass this week in her second race since her injury.
I think 11 horses going this week, all at 10/1 or better except for 1.
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| 7 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 00:47
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Stl -- I'd likely just see what the jockey can do. Up to you, however.
I wouldn't count on Sixth Deputy duplicating a 109. Horses don't just throw down 109's at will. Stormy Prospector, for example, has only thrown back-to-back 109's twice. Granted, this isn't back to back here, but it's the same sort of concept, I think. Not saying he can't do it. But if he does, man, he'd be a beast!
How's the rest of that stable progressing?
BTW, I assume you manually set Sixth Deputy for a couple of starts awhile back??
____________________________
16 horses going for my barns this week. An outside chance of me reaching my 100th win in the sim -- I'm sitting at 95, IIRC.
Big Time Favorites:
Jericho Velvet -- last race as a 5K starter -- not going to win me a ton of points, but his same-track allowance filled up with serious competition, so I'm pulling him back to the states for a last Hoorah! Victory lap. Hopefully.
Bart Accordian 2/5 odds. He could lap the field. I ran him a bit over his head a couple weeks ago in SD specifically because I saw this race coming. I bet whoever carded that race is having his/her eyes pop out with a horse like Bart Accordian fitting the criteria. So much for your easy win, hehehe!
Brown Bro 6/5 odds, basically dead-heat with 4/5 odds favorite. Probably will finish #2 in the race.
Favored or almost favored hombreds
I guess the computer likes my breeding!
In Quest of Gold 9/2, #2 fav in race.
Red Summer Goes off at 4/1. Crossing fingers and hoping for the best.
Ballroom Blitz 5/1 in MClaimer. Oops! Looks like she's going to be gone from my barns. That was really stupid. She's got decent DDS blood, and she cost me 40ish points. Oh well. I can hope she'll magically get over-looked.
Ms. Secretive is 4/1 in her low-tag claimer. WAIT! Holy Garbage! Her claim points are wrong! Oh no! She's for sale for 20 points! Good grief. Gotta go post in the sim. . . .
Ok, I'm back. Man alive, I'm such a schmuck. From last week's data, I knew that Mike's rule was full of crap, I just had never looked it up. now I have a 25 point homebred available for 20 points. CRAP. You know, it's bull that you could still buy the horse for 25 points. I mean, that's still a good deal. A free ID#, and no effort to research the pedigree.
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| 8 | cab
Donor
ID: 141552719
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 07:25
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15 going round the track this week...
Parade shooting goes in red hot fav(1/9) in his race...It's a while since he has had a try on the turf but going on his past, he should handle this field okay...Hopefully it will get him back into the winning mood and set him up for his next assignment,a 2 mile stakes race in two weeks...
Big foot and Dream pick ax head to the hometown of STL for their races...Neither are that well favoured though...Actually, there aren't many of my runners favoured at all by the oddsmakers...Paunch's horses,Raindrop mark,Rapid claim,Danger tow,Return car and Sweltering order are all between 9/2 and 6/1...
I have given up using the jockey select for Paunchi's horses and Raindrop mark...It hasn't made any difference in their last two starts(in fact, i think they ran worse!)...The jocks are in charge now!...I would bet my last dollar that they will settle a way back in the field, make a charge with a furlong left and end up somewhere between 3rd and 6th place...
Good luck this week everyone...
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| 9 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 10:10
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16 racing here. Everybody drew in.
2-year-old Red Tory Theory drew in. But she's a filly, and I mistakenly entered her in a race for guys. First time I've made this particular mistake. She's 8/1 in New Jersey 0910.
toral6 has a couple of horses near the end of the line going. This is Deposit Burn's last chance; if she bombs in her NC 4008 3.5KN2L claimer, she could be bred over for a bargain breed this weekend. Mine Gatos goes for a MC $3.5 win at 6/1. Arctic Skunk returns to racing after a looooooooooooong injury in 6609 a $25K MC.
Interesting races this week: Lost Court a 5/1 cofavourite in a *295 allowance. Someone's been carding track-restricted turf distance claimers in Upper New York, coincidentally on Earl Gal's racing schedule, putting him in a 4-horse field again. Arctic Bean is 9/2 in a 5411 MSW.
Good luck to all.
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| 10 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 10:43
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Holy Cow Madman 100 sim wins with 4 stables!! I think my best stable has 13 wins, a far cry from a 25 avg. WTG!
Cab Nice to see you in MO. I see Big Foot is up against Toral's Duke Pine. Don't recognize your jockey, but Toral has a good one going, the same one riding Dream Pick Ax.
Toral I see Red Tory Theory has Unreal Zeal has a sire. That is the sire of that horse in week 1 of 2yo racing that turned in the 87SP. Is Red Tory a code name for a breeding strategy you are trying out?
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| 11 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 10:52
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StLCards Nah, "Red Tory Theory" is a Canadian theory in political science I won't bore you about. Nothing to do with breeding. She was bred before that 87speed raced -- I hope that one didn't get all the speed the computer is handing out for these.
BTW, I'd still let that apprentice pick his race style for you. Take Bowen by the shoulders, look into his eye and say, "Son, I'm puttin' a lot of trust in you today...."
Toral
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| 12 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 11:01
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Sounds good Toral. Think I'll take Bowen out to dinner tonight (need to monitor his food intake, don't want him getting to heavy), and I'll talk with him then. I have decided to go JS.
Good luck with Red Tory Theory. At least he is Canadian, would hate to see him run like an elephant or a mule!
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| 13 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Thu, Feb 28, 2002, 18:35
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Toral I just noticed Gold River in GA this week. Running in the #3 gate next to Sixth Deputy in the 2 gate. How 'bout a 1-2 finish :)
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| 14 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Fri, Mar 01, 2002, 01:29
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Cab The MO tipster has Dream Pick Ax to come in 3d.
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| 15 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Fri, Mar 01, 2002, 03:02
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StlCards 10 -- well, I'm not there yet. Sitting at 95. That's in 554 races. I'm much more proud of the fact that I've already had more than 100 90+ speed ratings. Among the ASR stables I've browsed (just a handful), I think that stat is competitive with almost anyone in the sim, especially in % terms, and especially for not having any Graded Stakes winners racking up a zillion of such ratings.
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Guess what? I just opened a new stable -- Madman1. There is only glue in the horse pool. My plan is to sit on the stable and try to acquire some low-tag lottery picks in the first couple of weeks, while doing a bit of betting to keep some cash flowing.
If I succeed at that and really think I have some awesome horses from claimers, then I'll proceed to try to develop the stable, with an eye towards replacing Madman3 or Rotciv as one of my main 4.
On the other hand, if I don't succeed in getting decent claim horses, then I'm going to treat this as a 100% test stable.
Either way, with the tools I have, I think I can manage a 5th stable with a minimum of time commitments.
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Toral You'll be satisfied to know (given previous discussions and your homebred's name) that I've found in my lineage two Tories that had to flee to Canada right after the Revolution. Worse than that, even, the reason they went there was that the King rewarded them with some land for their service during the war. HARUMPH. I'm not sure whether I should be proud of the fact they fought for their misguided beliefs or not!
Apparently they, along with thousands of other displaced and misguided souls, moved to the west coast of Lake Superior, where the King also gave Benedict Arnold (a documented first cousin of a different ancestor, AAAAAAAAAAAARGH) tons of land. I still have wayyyyy more ancestry on the "proper" side of the Revolution, don't get me wrong, but geez -- tories in my blood-lines. Makes me second guess my conservative instincts!
At least we have a clue why I like to argue about politics. My nth-great grandparents couldn't even agree!
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| 16 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Fri, Mar 01, 2002, 10:05
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Madman I enjoy researching my family history as well. Am on again off again over the past few years as it is so time consuming, but I enjoy it. One of my lines goes back to the Randolphs and then to Thomas Jefferson through them, so I guess I'm on the "right" side as well. That is more than made up for though in the civil war where all my ancestors were on the "wrong" side. Researching my gg-grandfather one time I had a site open on the computer that had a confederate flag on it and one of my black co-worker friends walked in and said, "Geez, I didn't know you wanted to own me!" Luckily she knows me well and was just joking.
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| 17 | cab
Donor
ID: 141552719
Fri, Mar 01, 2002, 12:47
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I haven't checked the tipsheets yet...Thnx STL...I had a look at that race...I might just throw a few bob on DPA for a show...
Madman...That's sort of what i am trying to do with Cab35...It's been a battle to get claims,even though it hasn't got to 20 races yet...The only claim i got was a mistake i made..I paid 20k for a 3yo who looks worse than some of the cheapie homebreds i have!...I have been just trying to claim the best looking horses(which,of course,have hundreds of other people trying to get them)...I might have to change that strategy...
Have you ever been to the Mormon church(library)in Salt Lake city STL?...
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| 18 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Fri, Mar 01, 2002, 12:57
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Not in Salt Lake, but I've been to some local churches where you can order microfilm/fiche for next to nothing to use in the local church.
The St. Louis County Library recently acquired The National Genealogical Society's circulating collection of more than 20,000 volumes, which I still need to check out. That out to keep me busy for quite awhile :)
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| 19 | cab
Donor
ID: 141552719
Fri, Mar 01, 2002, 23:30
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Wow...20,000 volumes...That sure is a lot of reading!...We can order microfilms etc from the fhc here too...Needless to say, they take a while to get here though....
I wonder if Twarpy, Winmiller,Jkaye etc are aware that inactive stables will be removed soon?...Or if they care?...
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| 20 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Sat, Mar 02, 2002, 18:23
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Gotta catch up on the genealogy bit here, but a quick note on my horses:
OUCHOUCHOUCH.
Bart's Accordian decides to come back lame when he has the whole race setup for him.
Jericho's Velvet cranks a 109.7 AND LOSES A 5K STARTER RACE!
Although not outstanding SR wise, my hombreds competed well. Miswaki Music snagged 3rd (finally) in a MC race. Red Summer (2yo) ran a 66 speed and finished 2nd. In Quest of Gold also finished 2nd, in 56 speed, but very short turf run, so I'm more interested in seeing him compete. Ms. Secretive bagged a FIRST in her DEBUT, meaning I racked in the points, since she stays in my barns. She ran a 69.0 speed, and will be headed directly to the 4K starter allowances to test her abilities. :) strategy worked to perfection! :):)
Gotta go. More updates later.
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| 21 | cab
Donor
ID: 141552719
Sat, Mar 02, 2002, 22:52
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Results wise, It was a dismal day for me...three wins and two 2nds from 15 races...And the rest ran well down the track,which was very disappointing...Bigfoot and DPA didn't like the trip to MO at all!...Was it snowing in Missouri or something STL?!...All of my 3yo's,aside from a couple, will be hitting the claimers next time out...
On a brighter side....Danger tow managed to pass the 100sp mark in winning his race...I believe that 104 is a personal best for any of my horses...He now has the record of 2/2/1 from 6 starts since i picked him up...Not bad for a 5k claim!...
Parade shooting won easily in his race and won with a 59sp!..lol...Those 2 mile events are easy pickings for a half-decent marathon horse...Paunchi's horses was the other winner,finally grabbing an allowance race...
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| 22 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Sat, Mar 02, 2002, 23:02
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Not too bad for me this week since I started entering some claimers. French Deputy ran his normal 70SP for 2 miles on turf in a $25K claimer and won by 6.5 lengths. Kept him too.
Hardly Piddle won by 2 1/4 lengths over 8f dirt claimer. Lost him.
Rich Wine moved to turf this week and won by 2 1/4 lengths over 6.5f allw of some kind.
My new 2yo River of Gold Again came in 2nd with a 69SP over 6f dirt. Was back and forth, but he lost it in the stretch by 2 lengths.
Carnage Gal came in 3d in an MSW. Cryptomile and Mine Sharks both took 4th's. Sally Plow just doesn't like turf despite her breeding and came in 5th (last). Biggest dissapointment was Sixth Deputy running a 95 over a mile turf and getting 8th. Was never in it. At least I was a bit prepared with Madman's reality check about my expectations. 4 other horses came in well out of it.
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| 23 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Sat, Mar 02, 2002, 23:04
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LOL Cab Yes it was snowing today. Somewhat of a blizzard for a little awhile. That must have been the problem ;-)
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| 24 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Sat, Mar 02, 2002, 23:58
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Cab I hope to be raiding some of those 16f races myself with Tsultress. She's proven 90+ capable at that distance, and I figure that ought to be good enough to win some Stakes races if I can place her well. Yes?
Congrats on Danger Tow. Yep -- 104.9. Very solid SP figure.
StL -- River of Gold again -- that's a very solid SP factor for a 2 yo. I'd be satisfied. Still need it to develop, but that's out of your hands, mainly.
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OT: Genealogy is an off-again, on-again thing for me, too. Just caught a couple of hours. The web is so incredibly rich with information . . . both good and bad, unfortunately. But sometimes when I'm bored, I'll just do some browsing.
Honestly, I think the Mormon website is getting kind of sloppy. Too many unproven links there. I love it for suggested lineages. But I've found so many errors . . .
I recently got a genealogy program -- Legacy 3.0 . You can get it free off the web. I liked it so much, however, that I registered it and am on the list to get the 4.0 version. It's perhaps not as well-known as Family Tree Maker, but I like a lot of its options, and the price was right -- free and even 4.0 was only $25.
STL - are you a descendant of TJ? If so, that is way cool. I'm a descendant of Rev. Martin Dawson, III and Nathaniel Haggard who both lived in Albermarle county at the same time. Nathaniel Haggard was in the House of Burgess for some time in the 1760's-70's, so I figure it quite possible that he knew TJ. TJ's financial accountant was actually someone named Martin Dawson. However, it's not the same Martin Dawson in my lineage. But they have to be related somehow, you would think. My guess is first cousins. Need to research that stuff more carefully. . .
The main reason why I love genealogy is that it really puts you into history, live-time. I understand / am interested in history so much more now . . . For example, one of my ancestors was in the House of Burgess from 1657-1662. Right now, I'm fascinated, trying to figure out how he voted in the 1660 re-appointement of Berkeley. What was his stance on the English Civil War? He got a land grant in the mid 1650's. Was that from Cromwell to try to counter the royalist sentiment in Virginia at the time? Or from Charles II to stir that sentiment up? What did he think about the accusations against Berkeley regarding the West Virginia Indian problems in the 1660's? Was that why he left? Etc., etc. I never would have done half as much research into American history if I hadn't had a genealogical tree that I'm trying to fit into that fabric of history. Sometimes my ancestors were scumbags. Sometimes they were seemingly cool people. But all the time they reflect an interesting and very real perspective on American history.
(my only concern is that I've found a couple references to some slave holders. Ahem. That means I am a ripe candidate for paying reparations. I figure I'll burn all my documentation if the government comes knocking at my door. I wish I was totally joking.)
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| 25 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 02:27
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Madman I am much the same way. Right now I'm not in it so much, but the history is fascinating. I have read a lot of documentation going back to Jamestown while searching information. The most use I have found from the internet is connecting to people with similar ancestors. Problem with posting queries is that you get a lot of queries back, which ends up getting you sidetracked on a different line. I have a bunch of old pictures of family relatives many of which are tin type, and I actually know who most of them are, through my research. One I have really enjoyed researching was my gg-grandfather who was a confederate surgeon in the civil war. I have even gotten records about him from the Univ of PA medical school that he attended. Have traced through many of the battles he was in, where he was imprisoned at various times, etc. Very very interesting to me. I am related to TJ but not a direct descendant, but share direct ancestors. I use FTM, but can't open it up while the internet is open or it will freeze my computer (not enough RAM). Some of my distant relatives were important people in early colonial times and yes, I'm afraid they were slave owners too. Some of the same ones fought in the Revolution too. Not sure either of those is really a reflection of who I am though.
I think I just like doing research. Why else would I play fantasy sports, try to find the perfect dam-sire, do genealogy, etc. Heck, my job is actually in research too. So much for this generation being a wealthy land owner sort!
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| 26 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 02:32
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I forgot to mention that the Gurupie stable got its first win today. High Heels won a claimer. Only 3 horses drew in this week, so the stable is only up to 19 races. One more week and it is history.
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| 27 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 03:16
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STL-- That would be extremely cool -- tracking a civil war vet around. Those tin-types might be very valuable. My folks have been doing some identification, scanning and touching up (electronically) old photos, as well. Some of them are really sad -- pictures 110 years old and we have no idea who is in it.
The internet thing is extremely useful for connecting in to other people's lines, as you said. I look mainly for excerpts / citations to published works. I've got a list of books I "need" to get about an arm's length long, LOL. The line itself is somewhat interesting, but it's the discovery of history that I love.
One cool book that I've found dozens of references to is the "Ancestry of American Presidents" -- I hope I have that title right. I've even perused it some at the library. If you have deep roots in Virginia or the North East, I highly recommend checking that book out. My original plan was to photo-copy relevant descent lines. However, I had names I recognized on about 1/3 of the pages, so my plan changed to buying it, although I haven't ordered it yet.
For one example of a cool serendipitous internet discovery . . . I found a website devoted to archaelogy. They happened to be excavating the home of one of my long-gone ancestors and wrote up an article on their "findings", complete with excavation pictures and everything. Very fun read.
I've never posted queries publicly. I haven't even done private email, although I might eventually get around to it.
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Madman1 just came online this morning, I think. I'll post in the stable review thread, with comments.
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| 28 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 03:42
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Madman Connecting to people is the only way to go. I've had people in VA search at the National Archives for me, a genealogist in Oregon sent me a ton of photocopied original documents, a lawyer in KY has sent me records, a guy from MI sent me a whole genealogy which included the history of houses my ancestors built and lived in, newspaper articles about a relative of mine that was murdered (really not a good idea to cheat on your wife), someone copied a family bible in the Library of VA (that is a very good online site as well), etc. You just don't know what and who you will find. William and Mary Quarterly, Southern Historical Families, etc are good for getting stories, but you don't really know if they are true or not. Turns out it was fashionable around the turn of the century to resarch your family and of course everyone wanted to be related to prestigious lines. There are a lot of stories that say "Three brothers came from..." That is usually to link up people they have no where else to connect them too. A lot of books are just outright wrong. Kind of makes you wonder about the historical facts as well as about history. And like you said about online genealogies, I don't even bother any more saving them. I look at them and if I can verify certain information I look to see do they have something I don't. I never trust anyone's information without some kind of other confirmation.
Hope your new stable is loaded with quality horses. I am awaiting two babies myself.
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| 29 | cab
Donor
ID: 141552719
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 22:00
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Have to agree with your assessment about the Mormon site Madman...I think the problem is more with the submitters of the info rather than the anything else...I believe that as part of the training(for lack of a better word)for Mormons is to do a pedigree chart of someone...Some of them just pluck a name from somewhere and don't do a very thorough job i have been told...I have a great great grandfather that was supposedly born in New Zealand in 1825(according to an ancestral file)...I have been very easily able to disprove that by finding the shipping records that show he arrived in NZ in 1841(along with other records,censuses etc)...
I love delving into the past and trying to get some idea of what life was like back then...I went to the library one day to do some family research...I spent 7 or 8 hours reading newspapers dated at around 1890 instead...lol..It was fascinating...
Im getting close to 1000bp's in my 3 original stables...It's time to do some research on breeding in the next few weeks...
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| 30 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Sun, Mar 03, 2002, 23:35
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Good stories, guys. Looks like I haven't done nearly as much as you, STL! :)
Cab -- that makes a lot of sense. There are so many people over there working on it. You can often find contradictory information just by flipping screens on their site -- i.e., pedigree charts v. family info. is even sometimes different. Makes downloading and importing Gedcom's a pain. Grr. Given the inaccuracy of the info., I'm afraid it's not worth it. But it does give you some ideas to track down.
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My strategy with breeding -- pile up to 800 points or so. If you wait until late in the week, there will almost always be some decently priced high quality sires. Not a lot, but one or two. And, of course, that's all you need, as long as you aren't picky. That's how I got two Summer Squall kids. The one I'm really hoping for -- Agrippina -- is going to run this week.
BTW, everyone should be warned that Mike is STILL giving out bonus points weekly. Remember the deal that he would give everyone as many points as you'd built up so far in your stables history? Well, those points are spread out over 20 weeks. And they are still rolling in. Given that we will likely get more breed points at some point in the next few weeks (Warning: it will likely be smaller than 750 points, I'm guessing). So I'd highly recommend going at it whenever you can find a sire you like that is reasonably priced.
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| 31 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 00:29
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Thanks for that info Madman. I guess that explains why my BP's went up so much this week. I really don't keep a good track of them, but tend to notice jumps. I did enter some claimers, and thought maybe that was it.
I traced a few sires last week and you are right, some are available late into the week. About the time they start getting in the 200's they seem to get snatched up too. I did get a Private Terms filly this week (my last 4 have all been filly's). Looked at a few freshman sires late in the week and a few still had some left. The stables with enough BP's already have too many youngin's as it is. That was part of my plan though, knowing it would reduce my effort each week finding races. Now I have to suffer through seeing all these horses I can't start. It's like having withdrawl.
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| 32 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 00:55
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LOL - Looks like my new 3yo My Spring Place just changed into a male. I wonder if he'll ever tell he had the operation? Can I still enter him in female only races since technically he was born a she? Guess that's 3 female and 1 male now in the last 4.
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| 33 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 13:36
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Sex changes in the sim! Oh my oh my.
BTW, there will be a new feature coming on line where we can all track which stables won the most points in a given week. If you see a stable start to really rack up the points, remind me to look them up. The claim bandit debate is not over, although Mike wants to take a wait and see approach regarding the changes he's already implemented to see if that's enough.
He vehemently disagrees with my estimates that absurd claiming practices can still result in absurd quantities of BP points accumulated. But at least he's open to the possibility, it seems, and we'll all let the data on actual sim performances speak for itself from here on out. Furthermore, he requested that everyone claim "CB" or "VA" or "T" tags only if they would otherwise have claimed them without knowing the name of the horse. He wants to get an accurate feel for the effect of the rule changes.
Personally, I think it will take a few weeks before things return to normal. Some of the CB stables have been hit pretty darned hard. Furthermore, CBers are creating new stables, and it will take a bit to get them up and fully functional.
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| 34 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 14:02
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I guess I could turn the gurupie stable into a CB type stable to see how it goes.
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| 35 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 14:10
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A short note -- since last Thursday I've been occupied with a family health situation that involves a lot of hospital-watch time, hence my quietude. But I'm watching so don't try talking behind my back.
Some interesting stuff above, will post when I get a chance. Have a new 3-year-old in toral6, will put in appropriate thread.
Toral
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| 36 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 2504849
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 14:49
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Sorry to hear of your problems Toral. Hopefully everything works out for the best.
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| 37 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Mon, Mar 04, 2002, 23:24
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stlcards -- up to you. The key to a CB stable is to always put in a bid for 5 mediocre horses running in high numbered races, run horses RTG in weak fields whenever possible, and hit the low-priced auction to fill stable stalls that, for whatever reason, go empty. I recommend breeding only about 1-2 horses per week, if at all possible. If you have to do more than that, you're exposing yourself to unnecessary risk. It does take some work.
Toral Sorry to hear about your problems. I hope everything turns out for the best.
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| 38 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 10372222
Tue, Mar 05, 2002, 00:53
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Seeing as how I can barely keep up with the stables I'm running now I doubt I'll mess with it. On top of that I have a friend that I talked into playing and no longer has time asking me if I want his stable. LOL, just what I need. I probably will take it to keep it alive, because I know once we hit the golf course this summer I'll convince him to run it again. May require taking him to the real track, but we planned on that anyway. 7iron is the stable, IIRC.
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| 39 | Madman
ID: 21020124
Tue, Mar 05, 2002, 01:17
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Gotta get him here in gurupie land, stl!
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| 40 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Mar 06, 2002, 18:42
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Well, before we get into the new week...
Madman 15 I knew there was good blood in your lines somewhere. Conformation of the hooves, stuff like that. My mental mapping is bad...WTH is the west side of Lake Superior? I guess that means that your ancestors were UEL (United Empire Loyalists) -- the very foundation of our Way Of Life here. I wasn't aware that there were many that far west...if you haven't already researched them already, and know a little more detail about where they settled, I would be interested to look up some of the local histories of the area to see if they show up. (I can get them ILL for free, the published local histories, maybe that is.) I'll post with an e-mail address (for the names) if you're interested.
Toral
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Post a reply to this message: (But first, how about checking out this sponsor?)
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