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Subject: TSN: Premiership
Posted by: Erik B.
- [239592612] Wed, Jun 12, 2002, 17:43
Ok, we're thinking fairly seriously about building a Premiership game this fall. Do you have any thoughts on scoring? I'm thinking of going more or less with the Global Soccer Challenge scoring format -- I think it's fair. But we can also add a few categories (total shots, passes completed, tackles) if there's any interest. We will also be salary-capping the game, and I could use help on pricing if anyone is interested.
-ESB
GM/TSN Games |
| 1 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621
Wed, Jun 12, 2002, 19:21
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i think too talk for everybody asking you to avoid the pay for trades formula......if it's possible. Consider that there are a lot of free games about soccer on the net, while for u.s.a. sports there aren't....be smart, and if you've to make us pay for it, use the ultimate formula....
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| 2 | quik_ag
ID: 368423022
Wed, Jun 12, 2002, 19:57
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i'd like to see the goalies get more points somehow. maybe increase the point-value of saves?
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| 3 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621
Wed, Jun 12, 2002, 20:30
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for goalies:
goals allowed (-10), saves (+3), clean sh. (+50), win (+25), win on the road (+35), penalties saved (+75) (this one is a basic fantasy soccer category for goalkeepers, since it gives you the same points of a goal....).
for other positions:
tackles won (+2), passes completed (+2), shots (+3), goals (+75), assists (+50), yellow and red cards (-5 and - 15), penalties failed (-75), wins (+25), owngoals (-50), complete games (+30).
there surely be other interesting categories, but i think those are the more important.
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| 4 | Ira
ID: 1591458
Wed, Jun 12, 2002, 23:58
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lazio, saves should be a bit more...
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| 5 | mIST
ID: 36022116
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 02:26
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I thought about a new way of playing: if you want to win prices, you pay fee; if you want to play just to enjoy yourself, you play for free. What do you think?
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| 6 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 06:09
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it's almost the same of pay per trades.....
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| 7 | Coolio
ID: 4735618
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 07:26
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I have a question concerning eligibility. Since this game will be mainly targeted towards Premier league fans, will non US residents be allowed to win any prizes?
My point of view concerning the pay/free debate is to make a pay game with no possibility to buy trades, like the ultimate baseball.
As far as the scoring, I liked the scoring from 2 or 3 years ago. The actual GSC format is far from being sufficient. On a short term basis like the WC it is fine, but for a long term season, it is much too weak.
I assume also that it will be a market game (prices given to players).
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| 8 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 11:32
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Guys:
Believe me -- PFT is the only way we can do this game. The Ultimate model does not work for a market that we're trying to grow into. You're just going to have to trust me on this one.
Here's what I have scoring wise:
Goals (75), Assists (50), SOG (5), Red Card (-25), Tackles Won (2), Tackles Lost (-1), Clearances (1), Passes Completed (1), Passes Unssuccessful (-1), CS (75), Saves (12).
In the Premiership, based on last year's stats, the top 10 would be:
Hasselbaink, Henry, Keane, Pires, Scholes, Sherer, van Nistelrooy, Nigel Martyn, Beckham, Van der Sar, Dudek.
In Serie A, the top 10 would be:
Trezeguet, DiVaio, Doni, Hubner, Vieri, Del Piero, Buffon, Corini, Manierno, Antonioli.
Thoughts?
-ESB
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| 9 | quik_ag@work
ID: 12432289
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 11:46
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the tackles and passes stats seem to be so insignificant when compared with goals and assists.. does the top 10 change at all when you take away these possibly frivolous stats?
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| 10 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 11:48
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Actually, it does. A guy like Roy Keane had 2100 successful passes last year and only 300 "bad" passes. If you take out this state, he drops out of the top 15, even though he's one of the best midfielders in the Premiership. And if you take away clearances and tackles won, most of the defensive players drop out of the top fifty.
-ESB
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| 11 | Coolio
ID: 4735618
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 11:53
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Erik, could be please answer my question about eligibility?
Thanks.
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| 12 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 12:02
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Coolio:
Residents of Canada, the UK and the USA will be eligible. We'd like to do a Serie A game, too, but we'd only do it if we could expand our prize reach to Italy and other EU countries.
-ESB
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| 13 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 21820113
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 12:53
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erik, you've a perfect view of u.s.a. "market", but trust me, here in europe nobody would play a pft game while they can play a totally free one with nice prizes too. Or at least you can put a maximum number of trades a person can buy, to give a little of "sentiment" to the competition. It's pretty pathetic to see a person who buys 11 trades every day winning just for his monetary found and with less less less ability than you.
And hey, why don't you try to build an ultimate game and a pft one as you did for baseball??
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| 14 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 21820113
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 12:55
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and in the stats you HAVE to consider penalties failed, scored and saved!!!!......and wins on the road too!!!!
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| 15 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 13:30
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Lazio:
We're going to put in a cap of max trades purchased. It'll be something like 50.
We don't get the other stats that you've listed.
And if it's the case that this game will be unsuccessful, we'll know in December and, sadly, we'd exit the market.
-ESB
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| 16 | JCS
ID: 25548102
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 14:39
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Trezeguet 1st in Italy, Henry 2nd in England... and if you had computed the stats in France, Cissé would have been top 3... And we couldn't score one frickin' goal!
*disgusted*
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| 17 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 17:44
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erik if you've an opportunity to build a great responsed game it's with the ultimate formula....
i know it's a risk, but it's the safest bet.....
anyway, you've decided and i respect the choice.
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| 18 | El Tel
ID: 56423193
Thu, Jun 13, 2002, 19:38
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Erik,
Drop me a line if you want a UK view on Premiership pricing issues.
Just worry about me not playing a pay for trades game.
I will play the 3/4 domestic games I normally do-all pay to play.
Can't you find a UK partner for your game?I loved your Opta scoring because it was unique.
El Tel
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| 19 | mIST
ID: 36022116
Fri, Jun 14, 2002, 02:42
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Penalties saved is one of the most easy stats to get....there aren't many, and if you can't find it elsewhere (but I doubt it) we can tell you when they happen.
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| 20 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Fri, Jun 14, 2002, 10:16
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mIST:
Um, that's not exactly scientific or foolproof. Penalty saves is out.
El Tel:
If we prove ourselves with the Premiership in the fall, we may find a partner and we many create an ultimate game. We're simply in no position to do that now. Period.
-ESB
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| 21 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621
Fri, Jun 14, 2002, 11:01
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well, erik, it seems that you will never ever give us some credit about how to run fantasy soccer.......maybe you're right, it's just about 15 years we play it here in europe, and maybe you just know something we don't. Assuming and respecting the decision to run a pft game, even if ALL your users here hate it, i think that not giving attention to the suggestion about the scoring system is really a bad move. Penalties saved it's a vital stat for goalkeepers in fantasy soccer, and you can find them everywhere, on every site you visit.......anyway, guys, stopo arguing about the pft games, there are a lot of alternatives thanks god free......we'll enjoy a great soccer season, even playing premiership or serie a, and i'll open a rotoguru league wherever i'll play....free. see ya there!!!!
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| 22 | Erik B.
ID: 239592612
Fri, Jun 14, 2002, 11:51
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Lazio:
I really, really wish for once that you would listen to what I have to say. I'm not saying that I don't know what you're talking about, but:
1) WE DON'T GET THAT STAT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO MANUALLY UPDATE STATS. Do you understand that? Do you understand that we're not going to type in stats by hand for every game?
2) WE DON'T HAVE THE AUDIENCE TO SUPPORT A PAY AUDIENCE. We'd like to, someday. Now, we can't. Our World Cup game has been succesful as a PFT game. We look at our business EVERY DAY and understand the best opportunities for us. OUR ONLY OPTION TO DO THE GAME IS AS A PFT GAME. I COULDN'T GET A PAY-ONLY GAME APPROVED IF I WANTED TO.
Those of you who are on these boards know that I'm receptive to criticism. And you know that I listen to you, and change strategy when I can. We're adding a Premiership game because you've asked for it. But, I'm absolutely sick and tired of defending a position that I've made clear on these threads. You will simply, at some point, have to accept my word that this is the best and only strategy for us to pursue. If it doesn't work -- shame on me. We can always try something different next season. But this is the best we can do for now. I'm really, really sorry, Lazio, that you are incapable of understanding this.
-ESB
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| 23 | IRRIDUCIBILI LAZIO
ID: 221441621
Fri, Jun 14, 2002, 13:37
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i'm not uncapable, i accept it, even if it has been you asking for suggestions.......i've just tried to let you know my arguments, now if you want to take it personal it's another matter.
I've my toughts, WE have our toughts, you've yours, tsn has his priorities, we've alternatives if we want, no necessity to arguing here, just triing to help, considering our longer experience in fantasy soccer......that's it. good luck.
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