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Subject: Proposals for Poli Baseball 2004
Posted by: Seattle Zen
- Donor [55343019] Tue, Jan 06, 2004, 00:29
Let this be the thread where we propose clarifications to rules or rule changes and vote upon them. I have one proposal:
Proposal One: The Prospect Draft is to occur immediately after the Player Draft. The Draft is to be completed before Opening Day.
I vote Yea. |
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| 98 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Thu, Feb 05, 2004, 22:02
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Very gracious of you, Toral. Prop 3 Passes
Prop 1's fate rests completely upon the whim of Action Figures, if he is still alive.
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| 99 | Tree
ID: 59122420
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 07:05
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Thanks Toral. i'm glad to see a non-snake draft happening, which will benefit be greatly this year, but hurt me significantly next year...;o)
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| 100 | Myboyjack
Dude
ID: 14826271
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 08:24
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Hurts me, but I think it's a good change.
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| 101 | Action Figures
ID: 371027189
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 08:52
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When did this league turn into Lord Of The Flies?
Checking in.
I have a deciding vote? Thats what I was waiting for.
I woud love to have the prospect draft completed by opening day but given our history of drafts I don't think it is possible. No Way
If we had this rule in past years I would have Prior and would not have been handcuffed while trying to acquire him.
Wait.....I do have HIM, nevermind.
I think that we should start the Prospect draft immediately following the reglar draft. That means as soon as the last pick in the regular draft is made, the first pick of the prospect draft is made. No delay
I vote No to PROP 1
Now let's PLAY BALL!
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| 102 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 09:49
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Not so fast, AF. We need your vote on these proposals as well.
Toral
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| 103 | nerveclinic
ID: 2814620
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 12:08
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AF if we start the prospect draft immedeatly after the regular draft we will be done by opening day. The regular draft should be complete by mid March which would leave 2 weeks for us to pick 2 players each so....sounds like you are actually for prop 1.
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| 104 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 12:13
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AF if we start the prospect draft immedeatly after the regular draft we will be done by opening day.
Wanna bet? Don't forget, mbj is away the last week of March? or so. The season starts March 30.
And there will be a little more than 2 players each selected, as some useless "suspects" are dropped.
Toral
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| 105 | Myboyjack
ID: 108231015
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 12:28
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I won't be leaving until the 28th. I'll be in Vegas, so it's not like I'll be completely unavailable, just not sober.
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| 106 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 13:39
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I have to reitterate Nerve's question to AF. He contradicted himself. He wants the Prospect Draft to commence immediate after the Regular Draft. Therefore he is voting for Prop. 1. He doesn't think that this will occur before Opening Day.
Yet he votes No? That makes no sense. What is it, Action Figures? Do you want a Prospect Draft in late March or sometime in May? Remember, if you insist upon May, there must be some mechanism that prohibits managers from picking up Prospect-eligible players from Opening Day until the Prospect Draft is over.
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| 107 | Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 13:43
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Remember, if you insist upon May, there must be some mechanism that prohibits managers from picking up Prospect-eligible players from Opening Day until the Prospect Draft is over.
i think Yahoo is probably the mechanism for this. with the exception of draft day (depending on the Prior rule...errr..ruling), most, if not all, eligible prospects won't be in the yahoo database.
if they're not in the database, they can't be picked up as free agents...
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| 108 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 13:55
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But there are plenty that are, Tree. Dontrelle Wills, Joe DaVanon, amongst others appeared on the scene last year, were added to the Yahoo database, and we all had to sit on our hands. I REFUSE to continue this assinine policy of constantly having to check to see if a player was eligible to be picked up. Let's just do the Prospect Draft in March and the problem is solved.
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| 109 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 13:56
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The prospect protection rule is still in force (preventing pickup of anybody with PT under the threshold who was not Yahoo! listed at the time of the main draft, during the period between the main draft and the prospect draft.) Nobody picked up on my suggestion that it be repealed. It wouldn't have any effect if the prospect draft starts right after the main draft, but the rule still exists.
Toral
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| 110 | Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 13:57
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I REFUSE to continue this assinine policy of constantly having to check to see if a player was eligible to be picked up. Let's just do the Prospect Draft in March and the problem is solved.
i agree with you. a policy like that really punishes those who are keeping up, and rewards those who aren't...
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| 111 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:09
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Seattel Zen
I REFUSE to continue this assinine policy of constantly having to check to see if a player was eligible to be picked up.
Then why in the world did you vote no on the proposal to repeal the Prior rule?
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| 112 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:18
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The Prior Rule and the prospect protection rule are two different things.
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| 113 | Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:19
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ok, now i'm confused. could you explain the difference please, Toral?
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| 114 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:19
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Ah, right. Think it's too late for another proposal?
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| 115 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:28
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Prior Rule: Only Yahoo!-listed players can be drafted in the main draft.
Prospect Protection Rule: After the main draft, and until the prospect draft, no player who will be eligible for the prospect draft who was not Yahoo! listed at the time of the main draft can be acquired (when he is later added to Yahoo!) (Players eligible for the prospect draft are those a) with PT under the PT threshold [xxx AB, xxx IP]; AND b) who have never before been on a roster in this league in a previous season.)
Not too late for another proposal (e.g., repeal the prospect protection rule)
Toral
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| 116 | Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:35
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Prior Rule: Only Yahoo!-listed players can be drafted in the main draft.
soooo, if this rule isn't overturned, and we start the draft before Yahoo lists their players, how do we enforce this?
Ah, right. Think it's too late for another proposal?
propose it. you've got a few votes already...
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| 117 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:41
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Prior Rule: Only Yahoo!-listed players can be drafted in the main draft.
soooo, if this rule isn't overturned, and we start the draft before Yahoo lists their players, how do we enforce this?
Yahoo! is starting in mid-February; we don't draft till March.
Toral
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| 118 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:46
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I REFUSE to continue this assinine policy of constantly having to check to see if a player was eligible to be picked up.
When Zen said this I assumed he was referring to the draft. Does the Prospect Protection Rule not protect prospects during the primary draft? I was under the impression that we couldn't draft players that were in the Yahoo database and eligable for the prospect draft.
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| 119 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:49
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I was under the impression that we couldn't draft players that were in the Yahoo database and eligable for the prospect draft.
We can, and many have been drafted (e.g., Hank Blalock, 2002).
Toral
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| 120 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:50
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Notice Zen referred to "Dontrelle Wills, Joe DaVanon, amongst others appeared on the scene last year, [who] were added to the Yahoo database"
Toral
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| 121 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 14:53
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OK, then Prop 9 came from a misunderstanding on my part. I'm going to delete prop 9 and all of my related posts in the 'more proposals' thread. If someone else proposes to repeal the PPR, I may still vote for it, but I have to think about it some more.
Sorry for any confusion I caused.
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| 122 | deepsnapper
ID: 2110582311
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 15:31
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I couldn't support dropping the "Prior" rule. I didn't see a viable alternative presented that didn't make fundimental changes to the the draft and the league. The draft is an integral part of the process for me and allowing "shadow" players to be drafted and take up roster positions is not something I was prepared to do. That's a different league altogether IMO.
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| 123 | Action Figure
ID: 48140621
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 22:50
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Okay. What I meant was that I wanted to concentrate on the regular draft and then go to the prospect draft soon after the regular draft was completed. I haven't researched very many players yet and I would like to take it one draft at a time.
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| 124 | Action Figure
ID: 48140621
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 22:53
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I thought you only needed me to vote on one issue because the others were already decided without me. I'll look the others over.
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| 125 | Action Figure
ID: 48140621
Fri, Feb 06, 2004, 23:17
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Yet he votes No? That makes no sense. What is it, Action Figures? Do you want a Prospect Draft in late March or sometime in May? Remember, if you insist upon May, there must be some mechanism that prohibits managers from picking up Prospect-eligible players from Opening Day until the Prospect Draft is over.
What happened to April? If the prospect draft went into the EARLY part of the season I don't see a problem with that.
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| 126 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 04:29
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Action Figures
If we complete the Prospect draft before the season starts, picking up players from the waiver wire is easy. All you have to do is check one list, the Prospect List, and if the guy is not on it, he is yours.
Traditionally we have had the Prospect Draft in late May or early June. If you want to pick up a player, not only do you have to check the Propect List, you also have to check to see if they have fewer than 300 ABs or 125 IP. Quite a few stop-gap replacements fall into that catagory. They are verboten until after the draft. It is an extra layer of crap that I am sick of. I have devised a way to avoid the layer of crap, just say, "yeah, that's a good idea", and we are a go.
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| 127 | Action Figures
ID: 371027189
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 07:01
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Yea I'm sick of that layer of crap too. I have not seen any specific dates all I'm hearing is March, May, June.
When will the regular draft actually start? Do we even know yet? To put it in simple numbers. If the regular draft started on March 1 and ended on March 15 then I would like to start the prospect draft on March 16
I voted NO because I didn't want the added pressure of two drafts before the season started but I will change the vote to Yes after looking at things a little closer.
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| 128 | Baldwin
ID: 560191911
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 07:40
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Let me clarify my no vote on Prop 1 (prospect draft complete by opening day) -
I'm not looking for unlimited time to watch minor league play as I believe at least one manager would like.
I want an early prospect draft. I just don't want to shackle ourselves to an ironclad deadline. I could live with a farm system draft that finished within the first month or even sooner. I could even support the loose goal of trying to finish it around the beginning of the season. I just don't get the desperation to start it immediately after the regular draft. The research for both pools of players differs dramatically.
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| 129 | Tree
ID: 4417619
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 08:28
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regular draft starts March 6, i believe. i think we should give ourselves a couple days to rest our brains, then kick off the prospect draft.
i already made one foolhardy proposal, so i'm a bit gun shy right now, but i'd like to suggest that we begin the prospect draft 3-7 days after the regular draft ends. Heck, maybe even make the prospect draft begin the first saturday after the regular draft ends?
it's not an iron-clad date, but it puts things into a time-frame
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| 130 | Baldwin
ID: 560191911
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 08:37
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As the resident slow-draft freak and facilitator I was wondering if these two drafts were going to be slow draft or if there is even the option of using tools on Yahoo to run this? Obviously the prospect draft isn't doable on Yahoo.
I'm not so burnt out that I can't support another draft.
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| 131 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 09:57
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Geez I agree with Tree. Maybe I should seriously rethink this, or go back to bed;)
The logical thing to do it seems to me is as Tree says...gear up for a week or so after the main draft ends and then start the prospect draft.
It's true per Zen 126 that that might mean there are a few days at the beginning of the season when tou have to check prospect eligibility before picking up a young player just added to Yahoo!. To my mind it's worth it, since 1) researching prospects is a whole different task than researching regular draft choices; 2) it seems better to do it this way than trying to force/shoehorn the end of the prospect draft in before opening day.
Toral
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| 132 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 10:03
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Baldwin I was wondering if these two drafts were going to be slow draft
They have been before; why wouldn't they be this year?
Toral
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| 133 | rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 10:05
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Yahoo doesn't have a feature where you can enter keepers and then go live for the rest of the draft anyway. Surely you're not proposing that everone "pick" there keepers live on yahoo and it will be error free.
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| 134 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 11:44
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At last, finality
Prop 1. passes with this caveat. The Prospect Draft will begin on the Saturday after the Regular Draft. This seems fair.
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| 135 | deepsnapper
ID: 2110582311
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 12:39
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SZ - I count 7 no votes on Prop 1 at last count. How does it pass?
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| 136 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 15:01
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See post 127
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| 137 | Baldwin
ID: 560191911
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 17:40
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Toral/RFS
I was just making sure. I favor slow after all, I can imagine a way to do it on site tho. If the commish entered the keeper names in the results page before the draft it might eliminate them from the available players pool. Yahoo is set up to accomodate keeper leagues isn't it?
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| 138 | Tree
ID: 4018716
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 17:56
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i dont believe yahoo is set up for keeper leagues. best way to do it is slow draft, but a post before the first pick should contain the name of all the keepers...
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| 139 | rockafellerskank
Dude
ID: 27652109
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 17:59
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If the commish starts to enter names, you no longer have a live draft option. It's all one way or the other... Just FYI.
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| 140 | deepsnapper
ID: 2110582311
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 18:31
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AF - Okay - you changed your vote to a yes. That's still 6 no votes. Maybe I'm dense (or just getting ready to hear Bush on MTP tomorrow (can't stand to look at him) , but I don't see 9 votes in favor of starting the Prospect Draft as early as described in #127.
I can support something along the lines Baldwin proposed in #128, but I am not in favor of starting the prospect draft right after the regular draft. I'd like to have it finished early in the season, but not on the heels of the regular draft. What am I missing?
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| 141 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 18:35
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deep This isn't a rule change needing 10 votes. There's never been a rule about when the prospect draft will be held in any year. All a proposition needs is 8 votes (simple majority). And I say that as someone who preferred that the prospect draft be held around the ASB, with the prospect protectrion rule being repealed so that AB/IP totals did not need to be checked.
Toral
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| 142 | Seattle Zen
Donor
ID: 55343019
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 19:51
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Toral is correct, simple majority is all that is needed. Since Madman has said he was abstaining, that means the final tally is 7-6.
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| 143 | nerveclinic
ID: 2814620
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 21:27
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So I want to make sure I understand this.
Once we finish the prospect draft (Hopefully before the season), then anyone who is added to Yahoo at anytime is eligible to be picked up as long as they are not on someones prospect list...correct?
nerve
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| 144 | nerveclinic
ID: 2814620
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 21:55
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MBJ...I won't be leaving until the 28th. I'll be in Vegas, so it's not like I'll be completely unavailable, just not sober.
I'll miss you by 3 days. I'm there the 24th and 25th for MAGIC the men's/young men's clothing market.
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| 145 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sat, Feb 07, 2004, 23:50
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Once we finish the prospect draft (Hopefully before the season), then anyone who is added to Yahoo at anytime is eligible to be picked up as long as they are not on someones prospect list...correct?
I believe so. That's the way it has always been after the prospect draft.
Toral
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| 146 | Myboyjack
ID: 21556266
Sun, Feb 08, 2004, 14:42
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Sorry to be missing you there, nerve. I'll be at the Rio
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| 147 | Myboyjack
ID: 21556266
Sun, Feb 08, 2004, 14:45
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And that's as close as I'll ever get to Carnival
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