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Subject: Wanted: Political Gurus
Posted by: THK
- [106322819] Sat, Jul 28, 2007, 23:30
Ok, I am by no means a political guru and seldom stumble to these parts. However, in a football keeper league of mine no less - a member posted the following in response to Republicans hyping up certain aspects of everyday life compared to 6 years ago. The argument began after somebody posted a piece from Jay Leno...
I am just curious to hear some opinions on his beliefs from some more educated political junkies than myself.
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I am tired of Reublicans pointing their finger at the DEMS and visa versa - President Bush is a puppet with no real power and a complete moron just like Clinton was but what you all fail to see is that there is no difference - they all sell out to Globalists and Corporations with no interest for you and me.
It may appear that you are better off today. You have cheap trinkets made in China today. The dollar has been devalued since 1913 when the Federal Reserve and the income tax came into being. Since then the dollar is worth about a penny of the value it held then. The Euro is crushing the dollar and the Dow Jones is so high because the dollar is not worth that much.
There is no law that makes you file or pay an income tax. You have been lied to for all these years by the IRS ask them what the law is and you will be told that you will get in trouble if you do not. I own the Internal Revenue Code book and have written senators and congessmen on the code number that makes you liable for the income tax and have been told a number of things such as "it's your patriotic duty: and bullshit like that but NO ONE has ever shown me a law! - because there is no law.
The Federal Reserve is not even a part of our government. It is 13 International banking families. It is a private corporation who has never been audited. They print money out of thin air and loan it to our gov't and then our income tax goes to pay them and the interest. We have so many other taxes that build roads and sustain the gov't. The reason we have an income tax is to pay the international bankers.
Social security is just another tax. There is no money in a lock box anywhere. All there is in a big fat IOU note that says all the money that has ever been collected has been spent. The money that is taken from you this year goes to pay someone else this year. There is no account set up for you that is building your future payments. It is the biggest PONZI scheme history has ever seen.
The fact of the matter this country is completely bankrupt and is now in the process of seeling its infastructure to foreign corporations, water electric plants and roads. The state of Texas just handed over 8,000 miles of road to a Spanish/Australian corporation for pennies on the dollar so they can create toll roads and make a killing.
We are headed into a North American Union with Canada and Mexico and will soon have a new currency called the AMERO to rival the EURO so say good by to the dollar. Cheap goods for WalMart will be shipped from China to new sea ports in Mexico and shipped up through the newly built NAFTA Super Highway all the way up to Canada. This will bypass expensive ports and put our dock workers and truckers out of a job "really nice". They are building a Mexican Customs port in downtown Kansas City with Kansas City taxpayer money right now. They are seizing land in Texas also to start the 4 football field wide Superhighway.
The economy is not rolling. Our manufacturing jobs continue to go overseas and the housing market bubble is about to pop. If you keep listening to the corporate controlled news you will always think things are good. The truth is the Republicans and Democrats are both bought an paid for whores controlled by globalists. The democrats were largely elected to get out of the IRAQ war we were lied into in the first place.
9/11 was an inside job pulled of by criminal elements of our government. Larry Silverteen bought the rights to the WTC complex 6 weeks before Sept 11th for 60 million and had it insured for terrorism and got paid 7 billion after. Niel Bush, the presidents's brother, was in charge of security for the complex. In addition to the Twin towers that were struck by planes, BUILDING 7 came down that day at 5:20 PM and was not hit by a damn thing. How does a 47 story steel structure just implode into its own footprint in 6 seconds, free fall speed? WTC building was not even mentioned in the 9/11 Report and has since been rebuilt like it never happened.
How does a plane hit the most defended building in the world - the Pentagon? It has anti aircraft betteries all around it and if you do not have a friendly beacon signal will get shot down. How come NORAD stood down that day? Payne Stewarts plane went off course when everyone aboard died and F-16s were on it in 16 minutes but those Jets on 9/11 were flying up there for an hour an a half? Give me a break! How about the inside trading on United Airlines and American airlines. Just days before 9/11 there was 12 times the put options noramlly placed on stocks on those two airlines alone, not NorthWest, not any other airlines - just the two airlines used on 9/11. Someone knew and made millions off of it.
How come Bush after being told the towers were hit sat in that school room in Florida for an additional 7 minutes? Secret Service protocol would have had him swept out of that room immediately because the President's location was well known and publicized. They must have know he was not a target?
In September of 200 a group of Neocon hawks formed a group PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICAN CENTURY (http://www.newamericancentury.org/), many of whom are in the current administration wrote a book called "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources For a New Century" and they wrote in there that they wanted a massive miltary buildup for war but it would be difficult to get the public behind it "absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a NEW PEARL HARBOR!" Funny how that event just happened to happen a year later, hmmmm. Coincidence?
Now we are talking about war with IRAN - http://www.rense.com/general77/chens.htm
I could keep going but will let you guys digest this information first. The information is out there if you want to see it....
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| 1 | Perm Dude
ID: 1625288
Sun, Jul 29, 2007, 01:16
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Lots of stuff here, but let me just take on the income tax question (and, as an aside, we mulled over income tax questions here and a bit here)
There is no law that makes you file or pay an income tax...
The whole question of whether there is a law which compels filing tax forms is a bit of a silly argument. We have a volunteer filing system, in which people voluntarily file forms about their taxes. This does not mean that we do not have to pay taxes (the 16th Amendment gave the power to Congress to tax incomes, and the IRS code is the mechanism through which income is actually taxed). This means that the process is one of semi-volunteered information in order to make it easier to pay the taxes we owe.
Make no mistake about it: Every argument regarding tax protesters has ultimately failed in court. Every one.
One more: Social security is just another tax. There is no money in a lock box anywhere.
This is mostly true. Not completely, because Social Security is running a surplus (and has for decades, and will for decades). By law the Social Security excess is invested in government debt (T-bills). The problem, of course, comes when more people are drawing Social Security at a faster rate that then-current workers are paying into it. A knotty problems we've also mulled over (type "Social" into the subject search line of the Political Forum front page and you'll find some good stuff).
There are some plans out there to make use of the time we have left. I think we'll need to both raise retirement ages across the board and raise the ceiling to paying into SS. And maybe some sort of needs testing (a needs-test combined with a limitation on payments to match in-payments would probably help by a lot).
As for 9/11, I will only say that the facts regarding both men mentioned are wrong (heck, even their names are wrong. They are "Larry Silverstein" and "Marvin Bush"). The latter, BTW, was in a subway under Wall Street when the planes hit. If the rumors were true about him, I think he'd have called in sick that day.
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| 3 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Sun, Jul 29, 2007, 02:11
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You're leaguemate touches on a few ideas I agree with to one extent or another but clearly knows very little about what he is talking about.
To call the President a puppet with no real power is an awfully simplistic thing to say without an explanation. Bush clearly trusts in a very small goup of people far more than any of his other advisers or anyone else in his cabinet. But there's no way your friend can know just how much their influence guides his actions vs his own opinions.
they all sell out to Globalists and Corporations
No argument there.
...with no interest for you and me.
Debatable how true this is. In our shrinking world, globalism is probably an inevitability.
[2007 dollar is worth 1/100th of the 1913 dollar]
I don't see how this is possible by any reasonable scale.
There is no law that makes you file or pay an income tax. You have been lied to for all these years by the IRS ask them what the law is and you will be told that you will get in trouble if you do not. I own the Internal Revenue Code book
Too bad he/she doesn't own a copy of the Constitution: Amendment 16: The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Social security is just another tax. There is no money in a lock box anywhere. All there is in a big fat IOU note that says all the money that has ever been collected has been spent. The money that is taken from you this year goes to pay someone else this year. There is no account set up for you that is building your future payments. It is the biggest PONZI scheme history has ever seen.
I don't know what a PONZI scheme is. But here's some info from
The Social Security Network:1. What do the Social Security trust funds consist of?
The Social Security trust funds are United States Treasury bonds. These bonds are issued by the U.S. Treasury to raise money to pay for budget deficits. The total value of all outstanding Treasury bonds is the national debt. The Social Security trust funds own part of the national debt.
The trust funds have been accumulating Treasury bonds since the mid-1980s because Congress, at the recommendation of Alan Greenspan and Ronald Reagan, decided to collect more in taxes than were needed to pay current benefits.
The fact of the matter this country is completely bankrupt
We haven't reached that point yet, but continued spending deficits and a mounting pile debt are the big elephant in the room.
now in the process of seeling its infastructure to foreign corporations, water electric plants and roads.
The foreign ownership of American properties has been discussed here before. My take on most of the more alarming issues I've seen made is that they are typically overblown.
North American Union with Canada and Mexico... NAFTA Super Highway all the way up to Canada
True.
the AMERO
It has its supporters (see The Fraser Institute and The Council of Canadians) and its detractors. It's likely a coming fight, but is by no means a done deal. Consider that the UK does not use the EURO.
The economy is not rolling. Our manufacturing jobs continue to go overseas and the housing market bubble is about to pop. If you keep listening to the corporate controlled news you will always think things are good. The truth is the Republicans and Democrats are both bought an paid for whores controlled by globalists.: No argument.
The democrats were largely elected to get out of the IRAQ war we were lied into in the first place.
Deliberately misled, in my opinion.
9/11 was an inside job pulled of by criminal elements of our government.
Takes a pretty huge leap to believe that outright, tho there are some unanswered questions.
Larry Silverteen bought the rights to the WTC complex 6 weeks before Sept 11th for 60 million and had it insured for terrorism and got paid 7 billion after.
True, though this hardly proves he had it destroyed.
Niel Bush, the presidents's brother, was in charge of security for the complex.
Your leaguemate means Marvin Bush, another brother:He was a director of the Sterling, Virginia company Securacom, also known as Stratesec, from 1993 until June 2000 WTC is among Securacom's clients, tho the claim that "Bush was in charge of security" sounds like a stretch and his involvement with the company ended more than a year prior to the attacks. I'm not aware of the story about him being in the transit system below the WTC at the time of the attacks. If true, it obviously makes the insinuation even less likely.
BUILDING 7 came down that day at 5:20 PM and was not hit by a damn thing
There's been much debate over 7 WTC at this forum, here. See post 482 in that thread for a photo of the considerable damage 7 WTC suffered from debris that fell from the towers.
WTC building was not even mentioned in the 9/11 Report
This is not true. There are several mentions in the 9/11 Commission Report (usually what is referred to by "9/11 report" from pages 284 to 305. As someone who lives and works in NYC, I can assure you that the collapse of 7 WTC was not something that has been kept secret.
Also, The 9/11 Commission was not specifically charged with reviewing the finer details of the building collapses. For the government's details on those specifics, see the NIST Report.
How does a plane hit the most defended building in the world - the Pentagon? It has anti aircraft betteries all around it and if you do not have a friendly beacon signal will get shot down.
This is the first time I've heard this claim.
How come Bush after being told the towers were hit sat in that school room in Florida for an additional 7 minutes?
A good question. Does it speak more to the possibility of a conspiracy or simply a questionable President's questionable initial response to the attacks? If 9/11 was a conspiracy, why would the President sit there for 7 minutes, anyway? Is his questionable initial response to Hurricane Katrina evidence that the storm and flood were also a conspiracy?
Funny how that event just happened to happen a year later, hmmmm. Coincidence?
This comes up a lot. Your leaguemate either never read that quote or is deliberately distorting the context. I'm certainly no friend of PNAC (here's the report (not a book, to my knowledge) he/she cites) but the reference is not anything about drumming up public support for a military buildup. The point was that the Pentagon's military budget was too tied up in other things to fund the research, development and transformation they felt we needed to adjust to the coming challenges in the changing world:Moreover, the Pentagon, constrained by
limited budgets and pressing current
missions, has seen funding for experimentation
and transformation crowded out
in recent years. Spending on military
research and development has been reduced
dramatically over the past decade. Indeed,
during the mid-1980’s, when the Defense policy goals and would trouble American
allies.
Further, the process of transformation,
even if it brings revolutionary change, is
likely to be a long one, absent some
catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a
new Pearl Harbor.
Your friend clearly picked all this up someplace without bothering to question any of it. There are some unanswered questionas about 7 WTC and NAFTA and many of the other items in his list. But its hard to take someone who gets so many facts wrong very seriously. Peppering the issues with half-truths and myths (or not objectively fact checking before spreading them) is entirely counter-productive to the effort of sharing them in the first place.
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| 4 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Sun, Jul 29, 2007, 03:38
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Globalists is a generic word without any specific meaning unless used in context.
If it is meant to describe those who promote a one world government, then it is being used in an especially ludicrous manner, given that our own government is barely capable of consensus on issues ranging from national defense to agricultural subsidies.
When used in an economic manner, it may be less ludicrous, but not much. The current competition for control of dwindling world energy sources has shown there to be more tension between the established economic powers of the US, Canada, Europe and Japan and the emerging economies of China, Russia, and India.
Economic cooperation, as is usually the case, is tied to military cooperation. A glaring example would be the proposed 20 billion dollar arms sale to the Saudis which will likely be countered by Russian and/or Chinese arms deals with Iran.
So to me, the term globalist has no meaning without context. Bush and Clinton have been identified as such, but there needs to be accompanying analysis, replete with policy positions and implementations, to support the charge.
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| 5 | Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 01629107
Sun, Jul 29, 2007, 08:34
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Merriam-Webster glob·al·ism
a national policy of treating the whole world as a proper sphere for political influence
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| 6 | Pancho Villa
ID: 495272016
Sun, Jul 29, 2007, 11:55
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a national policy of treating the whole world as a proper sphere for political influence
Well, OK, how about some examples. Can we go back to Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Richard the Lionheart, Ghengis Khan, Salladin, most every Pope, the Spanish conquistadors, a succession of English kings and queens who felt India, the Malay penninsula and the American colonies were a proper sphere for political influence?
More recently, in this country, are covert operations such as the 1953 coup in Iran, the 1954 coup in Guatemala, the 1956 halt to elections in Vietnam, the Bay of Pigs, the 1972 coup and murder of Allende in Chile, funding and arming the mujahideen in Afghanistan, Iran/Contra, bombing the Serbs out of Kosovo and the invasion of Iraq all the work if globalists?
If so, the only prominent current politcal figures who can't be considered globalists are Ralph Nader, Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich.
Even organizations like the CFR, considered a hotbed of globalism, doesn't have any type of consensus as to what national policies of treating the whole world as a proper sphere for political influence should be enacted. Same with the political ideology commonly known as neoconservatism, where many who formerly embraced the term are now actively denying any association.
So when MITH says in #3:
In our shrinking world, globalism is probably an inevitability.
my response is that since December 7th, 1941, globalism is a reality, not an inevitability.
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| 7 | boikin
ID: 59831214
Mon, Jul 30, 2007, 14:34
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Larry Silverteen bought the rights to the WTC complex 6 weeks before Sept 11th for 60 million and had it insured for terrorism and got paid 7 billion after. did he really buy WTC for only 60 million? that really seems like quite a bargain.
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| 8 | nerveclinic proxy
ID: 56754514
Sun, Aug 05, 2007, 15:54
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I did this fast and after a few drinks...
This is a big post, I'll just grab a few comments that I can handle and make some observations...
I am tired of Reublicans pointing their finger at the DEMS and visa versa - President Bush is a puppet with no real power
Well he has some power, but it's hard not to see he, and most presidents and other politicians are puppets.
and a complete moron just like Clinton was but what you all fail to see is that there is no difference...
actually while the writer is correct there's not much difference, Bush is clearly the bigger moron, like him or not, Clinton was a pretty bright guy (When he thought with his big head) For instance, Clinton could finish a complete sentence.
they all sell out to Globalists and Corporations with no interest for you and me.
agreed
It may appear that you are better off today. You have cheap trinkets made in China today. The dollar has been devalued since 1913 when the Federal Reserve and the income tax came into being. Since then the dollar is worth about a penny of the value it held then. The Euro is crushing the dollar and the Dow Jones is so high because the dollar is not worth that much.
Well clearly we are much better off today. Our standard of living is much better then it was in the referenced 1913. A weak dollar is not necessarily a bad thing unless you are on vacation. It reduces the cost of our exports (A big plus for the small business I work for)
There is no law that makes you file or pay an income tax. You have been lied to for all these years by the IRS ask them what the law is and you will be told that you will get in trouble if you do not. I own the Internal Revenue Code book and have written senators and congessmen on the code number that makes you liable for the income tax and have been told a number of things such as "it's your patriotic duty: and bullshit like that but NO ONE has ever shown me a law! - because there is no law.
Law or not, don't pay and you are going to jail. You can't fight the Fed.
The Federal Reserve is not even a part of our government. It is 13 International banking families.
So?, are they arguing the government would do a better job? The chairman of the Fed reserve is appointed by the President (govt) and reviewed by both branches of govt.
It is a private corporation who has never been audited. They print money out of thin air and loan it to our gov't and then our income tax goes to pay them and the interest. We have so many other taxes that build roads and sustain the gov't. The reason we have an income tax is to pay the international bankers.
So far the system has worked pretty well, low inflation, best economy in the world, SS checks being paid. Come back when there's a big problem.
Social security is just another tax. There is no money in a lock box anywhere. All there is in a big fat IOU note that says all the money that has ever been collected has been spent. The money that is taken from you this year goes to pay someone else this year. There is no account set up for you that is building your future payments. It is the biggest PONZI scheme history has ever seen.
OK but so far the checks are being paid, the "ponzi" is working. I'd rather have the money to invest myself, but what about the idiots who would just spend it and wind up "in the streets" as seniors?
The fact of the matter this country is completely bankrupt and is now in the process of seeling its infastructure to foreign corporations, water electric plants and roads. The state of Texas just handed over 8,000 miles of road to a Spanish/Australian corporation for pennies on the dollar so they can create toll roads and make a killing.
I've heard this same story since the early 80's. In the late 80's the Japanese were taking us over...what happened to that one" During Clinton's Presidency he and the Republican congress were actually starting to create surpluses...it can happen again.
We are headed into a North American Union with Canada and Mexico and will soon have a new currency called the AMERO to rival the EURO so say good by to the dollar. Cheap goods for WalMart will be shipped from China to new sea ports in Mexico and shipped up through the newly built NAFTA Super Highway all the way up to Canada. This will bypass expensive ports and put our dock workers and truckers out of a job "really nice".
Oh you mean the dock workers who are basically mafioso at the moment?
The economy is not rolling.
Not "rolling, but it's been pretty solid. The stock market is up close to 90% since March 2003, the most recent GDP last week was over 3%, not bad actually. First quarter weakness appears to have been an anomaly.
Our manufacturing jobs continue to go overseas
Ok we won't manufacture we'll just work for the companies who are manufacturing over seas. We'll adapt and evolve because we are Americans and we are smart that way. Overseas jobs were going to destroy this country 20 years ago...still ticking.
and the housing market bubble is about to pop.
No it has popped, people who never should have been given loans are now having them taken away and housing prices are coming back to a reasonable level. It was inevitable. People were stupid and took ARM's when interest rates were low. Without the ARMs they weren't solvent enough to buy a home in the first place
If you keep listening to the corporate controlled news you will always think things are good.
Weird when I listen I think everything is bad
The truth is the Republicans and Democrats are both bought an paid for whores controlled by globalists. The democrats were largely elected to get out of the IRAQ war we were lied into in the first place.
agreed
9/11 was an inside job pulled of by criminal elements of our government. Larry Silverteen bought the rights to the WTC complex 6 weeks before Sept 11th for 60 million and had it insured for terrorism and got paid 7 billion after. Niel Bush, the presidents's brother, was in charge of security for the complex. In addition to the Twin towers that were struck by planes, BUILDING 7 came down that day at 5:20 PM and was not hit by a damn thing. How does a 47 story steel structure just implode into its own footprint in 6 seconds, free fall speed? WTC building was not even mentioned in the 9/11 Report and has since been rebuilt like it never happened.
Let's not go there here...see 9/11 thread
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