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| Posted by: Dave K
- [462472019] Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 14:33
I placed in TSN hoops.I then get message I can not receive prizes because I am in Florida,in fact there are are 10 states they say you can not receive prizes in.Which is a load of crap because I have in other Fantasy leagues.They gladly took my money and now refuse to pay. |
| | | 1 | darkside
Leader
ID: 516203012
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 14:40
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Try reading the rules. This is not something new.
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| | | 2 | rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 22171417
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 14:53
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Actually, as I understand it, TSN is complying with the State Law of Florida. Those 10 states consider TSNs game a "game of chance" and subject to gambling laws. Perhaps someone else can expound further if inclined.
#1 Your beef should be with the State of Florida. You can't expect TSN be break the law. Contact your local congressman and attempt to get support to change the law.
#2 You should have read the rules (before paying). I'm not trying to flame you here, but you are sunk. If you think it's a "load of crap", try taking yoru case to a class action lawyer, He'll tell you you have no case. Sorry. Just because other leagues paid out, doesn't mean TSN can't interpret the law in another way. If I ran a legitimate company, I'd follow the law, even though you call it "crap" because I'd prefer to have you complain than have the Florida State Attorney General call me!
rfs
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| | | 3 | Ref
Donor
ID: 100261311
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 14:54
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This has been widely discussed and they have been in the rules for awhile, but I still take a great measure of sympathy for these players.
He's right. The game takes his money and when he finishes in the money, he gets nothing. I would think the fairest thing to do (if legal) would to be to give these people game credits or credit on account. They did this when they messed up their trade game as I understand it (at least got free live stats). I would want to keep my players coming back and this would save the company money. Right now, they alienate at least some of the people that are ineligible and give real money to the next person in line. If they gave credits--instead of paying real money, they'd be simply giving them credits which in turn would keep more people in their games. If I was the Marketing Director for TSN, I'd push this issue hard with Legal. But, maybe that's not legal either. I don't know.
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| | | 4 | ukula
Donor
ID: 44322912
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:20
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Nobody lives in Florida - it's too hot!
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| | | 5 | darkside
Leader
ID: 516203012
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:25
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Personally, I don't think TSN takes money, but rather the players give TSN money for a service which they then provide. There is nothing underhanded about it, everything is clearly stated in the rules.
I agree ref that, to keep players from those states, they should try to implement some legal form of remuneration. However, I assume if that was easy to do, it may have been done by now. They gain nothing by alienating those people. I believe they still give away the same amount of money, so it's not like they're keeping Florida residents winnings, just not giving it to them. Again--IF PEOPLE READ THE RULES (that's why they're there), this would be a nonissue.
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| | | 6 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:26
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I read the rules.They bury it in a subtext.They intentionally hide it and use a loose interpretation of the law to avoid payment.I will contact the State attorney's office to verify if it is against the law.If what they are doing is not illegal it is atleast immoral.
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| | | 7 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:29
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"loose interpretation?" Dave K, try this clause in North Dakota (as just one instance):
"A sponsor may not require a person to pay the sponsor money as a condition of awarding the person a prize..."
Pretty clear, I'd say. They can't give you a prize, according to the state law in your state (and the others).
pd
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| | | 8 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:31
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This has been covered ad nauseum earlier, but if you want a bit more reading check out this thread from the hockey forum, starting with Post #16.
pd
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| | | 9 | Stuck at Work
ID: 503192913
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:36
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"A sponsor may not require a person to pay the sponsor money as a condition of awarding the person a prize..."
PD, One way to interpret this is that TSN can't charge North Dakotans to play their game, as long as North Dakotans realize they can't win a prize.
Don
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| | | 10 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 133252814
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:41
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I've always wondered about TSN's handling on this. They seem to wait until a game is over before even determining elegibility. How hard would it be to have a table of eligible states and then during initial sign up, compare the registered address to the list of eligible residencies, and send a message box saying, please be advised that based on your registered address you will not be eligible to receive a prize according to our rules. Do you still wish to register for our Ultimate game? y/n.
That way everyone knows up front their eligibility and TSN could create a table of prize eligible contestants from non-prize eligible. They could verify current address against registered address to verify eligibility prior to payouts.
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| | | 11 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:45
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Don,
I always thought that they should allow those people to play for reduced rates (not free, as it is and Ultimate game). But once they take their money they can't, at that point, award anything.
Cards--the eligibility list is there, but like all the legal notices is not upfront. TSN should be more clear when you register to show your elgibility at that point to collecting a prize. The legal notice on the site only covers their legal needs. It doesn't begin to cover their customer service needs.
pd
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| | | 12 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:49
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This link is provided in the hockey thread, but since it directly addresses the Florida situation, I thought it was worth highlighting here.
A few quotes:After last week's column about play-for-pay fantasy football leagues online, reader Ron Belanger of Hernando sent an e-mail pointing out an important asterisk for the topic: Florida residents are ineligible to win prizes from most fantasy football contests.
...
Fun never has been an issue, but the legality of what's becoming a rite of fall for millions varies from state to state and site to site. Few states are more specific than Florida in identifying fantasy sports leagues as a form of gambling, and thus illegal.
Sportsline's legal restrictions show 10 states whose residents are ineligible for prizes; Yahoo.com lists nine, ESPN.com six. Each site's lawyers are left to decide which state's laws to test and which to leave alone. ... Only five states show up on all three site's lists, and Florida is one of them. Sounds like your beef is with the laws of the State of Florida. TSN seems to be consistent with other major fantasy game providers.
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| | | 13 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:49
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You are correct Cards, they intentionally try to hide the fact that many are ineligible.While many of you that visit alot of forums may have known about this,those of us that just play are not as well informed.What they are doing is wrong,period.Some the these posters exemplify the problems with ths country.That there is no longer right or wrong,just gray areas.They are probably Clinton supporters.
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| | | 14 | boogie
ID: 12413020
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:51
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A list of States I took this off the site just a while ago to see if Kansas was a state that was listed. Thank God it isn't.
Subject to the terms of the Official Rules and Regulations, an eligible participant may receive only a single prize among the above prizes (whichever of the above prizes has the highest ARV): Grand Prize through 200th place prizes. An eligible participant may receive a first through 200th place prize as well as a Divisional prize. To be eligible to win a prize, Game entrants must be 18 years of age or older and a legal resident of the United States or Canada. Residents of Montana, Vermont, Louisiana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Arizona, Florida, Maryland, Colorado and the province of Quebec may play, but WILL NOT be eligible to win or receive any prizes.
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| | | 15 | Mattinglyinthehall
Sustainer
ID: 1629107
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 15:56
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Some the these posters exemplify the problems with ths country.That there is no longer right or wrong,just gray areas.They are probably Clinton supporters.
Oh my God.
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| | | 16 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:00
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There is at least one problem with allowing ineligible participants to play for a reduced fee.
Many - probably most - entrants do not expect to win a prize. If they were given the option to pay less in return for surrendering any rights for a possible prize, they would do so.
Now, perhaps this option could only be available to those who reside in those specific jurisdictions. However, don't you think TSN would suddenly get an influx of entrants from those places? What is to stop anyone from registering with a Florida address? Or from registering as a 17 year old?
Thus, assuming it is legal, the only way it could probably work would be for the price differential to be very small.
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| | | 17 | Rogue Nine
ID: 363382623
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:08
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MITH, #15, let it go... its not worth it! :)
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| | | 18 | StLCards
Sustainer
ID: 133252814
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:08
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I decided to go back and see just how hard it would be to find out whether I was eligible for a prize or not when signing up. Directly under the sign up page was a link "prizes". The eligibility criteria was there. Also under Official Rules, the very first thing is eligibility. So in reality, I wouldn't say TSN is trying to hide their eligibility.
I do think from a customer service point of view at least that TSN could implement what I mentioned in post 10.
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| | | 19 | darkside
Leader
ID: 516203012
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:11
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What they are doing is wrong,period.Some the these posters exemplify the problems with ths country.
Sorry, I left my spoon at home. Perhaps you'll have to feed yourself.
IT'S IN THE RULES. Do you want them to give you a wake up call every day so you can make your trades on time as well?
How about the fine print in...say, every legal document. Credit cards, unfair too, I suppose. Take some responsibility for yourself.
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| | | 20 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:11
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I think the French run TSN.
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| | | 21 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:12
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Yeah, MITH, DFTT.
Guru, my thought was to have lower entrance fees to play only for those who are ineligible for prizes based upon where they live. And while the reality of it is that most all people will not win anything in the end, it's my belief that many people sign up partly because they think they might just win something.
pd
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| | | 22 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 49132614
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:16
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Many - probably most - entrants do not expect to win a prize. - Guru
I very seriously doubt this. First, folks aren't that logical. Second, people are notoriously delusional about their own abilities.
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| | | 23 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:19
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It keeps me playing, bili!
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| | | 24 | Mattinglyinthehall
Sustainer
ID: 1629107
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:19
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LOL 17 & 21.
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| | | 25 | Ref
Donor
ID: 100261311
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:21
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All I suggested was game credits. They can do that when you bring in new players, why can't they do that win you win. If you don't use them say within a year, you lose them--and TSN gets to keep their money.
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| | | 26 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 49132614
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:22
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LOL, PD. I was going to add a punch-line re: our thread-host and his ability to defend a coherent argument, but I desisted.
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| | | 27 | Ref
Donor
ID: 100261311
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:22
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btw that should be when you win.
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| | | 28 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:23
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Ref, I used to advocate that (in fact, did so not long ago on the TSN boards--oops!), but some states like North Dakota do not limit the prize to being cash--game credits being the "prize" would be enough to set off their bells. It seems the only thing North Dakotans (and others on the list) can get is the satisfaction of a good game well played.
pd
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| | | 29 | Ref
Donor
ID: 100261311
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:25
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Fair enough, PD ;)
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| | | 30 | Razor
Donor
ID: 411149818
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:27
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I don't play TSN but I disagree with those who say TSN isn't getting away with something here. There are other ways they can compensate winners. Whatever the case is, when you go to pay for the game, it should say in bold letters, Residents from the state of Florida are not eligible for prizes. How many customers from the state of Florida (and the other states) would they lose if they did that? They'd lose some customers for sure and therein lies the problem - TSN is benefiting from keeping this piece of information somewhat out of view.
Unless 100% of the players from Florida win, it is irrelevant whether TSN pays out the Florida winners' payouts or pockets it. If one player from Florida doesn't win, they are cutting a profit on this little mini-scam.
Why doesn't TSN make this information more visible? Why would I as a Florida resident wish to pay the exact same price for a game for which if I lived 60 miles north, I could potentially get a payout? Shame on TSN for this. They should highlight this rule in the payment process and either make residents from these states pay less to compete or find some other method of rewarding winners.
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| | | 31 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:27
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Why would anyone buy trades if they didnt think they had a chance to win?Fox fantasy league paid me 200 bucks.This is just TSN convenient interpretation of the law,so they could pocket more money.Darkside,what part of France are you from?
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| | | 32 | Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:34
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I think the Dixie Chicks are also involved somehow...
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| | | 33 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:35
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Razor,you got it exactly right.This should be a no-brainer.Bilibob and Darkside would probably argue OJ was innocent.
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| | | 34 | Beetski
ID: 206282522
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:36
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Dave, why dont u just use one of the other guru's addresses and for a small fee mail you your prize.
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| | | 35 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:44
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I would have used another address,if I had known.What makes me angry is I like the style of league trying to decide for money gainer or most points and when to do it,but I would buy a Dixie Chicks CD before I would give TSN another penny.
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| | | 36 | rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 22171417
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:49
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TSN isn't avoiding any prize money payout. The prize rolls to the 2nd in the division or #101 WWR or whatever the case.... They are just sending the check to the nextg eligible winner.
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| | | 37 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 16:58
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They are getting money from people that would not be playing if they knew they had no chance of winning.Judging by the names I see,quite a few from Florida.
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| | | 38 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:01
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Jeez, get over it. Chalk this up to "You should have read the rules."
pd
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| | | 39 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:08
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I am not chalking anything up,Dude.TSN screwed me without even a kiss and are screwing 1/5 of the players,Dude.You may bend over and enjoy it,but I however am fighting mad,Dude.
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| | | 40 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:08
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I'm gonna ignore you flamingly obnoxious political allusions, but the point is that TSN is not doing anything wrong. They are printing it right there in the rules. They have the rules there and tell you to read them before you sign up. It is your fault if you pay for something without reading the rules, that is just asking to get scammed. TSN cannot break the law to give you money.
About the game credit proposal, there are two sides to it. Side A) That is fair to the winner, they get their prize credit and TSN keeps a customer. Side B) Lots of people would accuse TSN of ripping you off if they did this. People would say they award game credits so they dont have to pay out anything, and obviously it is advantageous for TSN to give credits instead of a pay out, and they cannot be expected to do both. The problem lies in the statutes of these states, not the game. Disgusting that in a "free" society we cannot even win prizes for an online game in a handful of states.
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| | | 41 | John Budge
Donor
ID: 51042247
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:13
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This Dave K character must be Joe Scarborough. They put the same political spin on otherwise non-political issues.
They are probably Clinton supporters. Too funny.
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| | | 42 | Punk42AE
Donor
ID: 598521312
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:14
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I'm really not seeing how it is anyone but your own fault not to read the rules? No one reads the rules on anything, but if something happens and someone gets screwed they say "well they didn't tell me" when they clearly did, but you yourself didn't open your eyes and read something.
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| | | 43 | Ref
Donor
ID: 100261311
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:15
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Damn! Very well said in 40.
Dave K, I understand your plight, but I'm not from Florida and still knew Floridians were inelligible for prizes. No use in getting mad at the people on this site--we don't work for TSN. Also TSN can't break the law in your state and stay in business. They do have disclaimers so if you read what prizes you could get, you had to have the words on that page of who wasn't eligible to receive prizes.
Good luck to you and if there is anything we can offer you in fantasy opinions, please come back and contribute! We're certainly here for you. Just nothing we can do about the state law.
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| | | 44 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:15
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You might have had a beef with TSN not making the rules more clear to you as a customer service point. But you are fully into whiner mode right now. Even if TSN wanted to do something they could not. And why would they when your only defense is that you didn't read the rules before you signed up?
On another point, it's not clear that you paid anything up front--you make reference to buying trades which is never been allowed in the Ultimate (pay) games.
Next time you'll read the rules, I'm sure.
pd
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| | | 45 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 0059248
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:17
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John, Don't blame Dave--he actually voted for Buchanan!
: O
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| | | 46 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 49132614
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:18
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Dave K must be psuedonym, and she is actually a welfare mother in Homestead. She's been accused by Jeb and his skinflint cronies of not taking responsibility for her actions so often, she finally started to believe she really didn't have to.
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| | | 47 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:19
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I wouldnt expect a Georgia fan to understand.
How do you stop a Bulldog from masturbating?
Paint his schlong Gator blue and orange then he can only beat it once every 11 years.
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| | | 48 | Ref
Donor
ID: 100261311
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:21
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Re: 42
In my first law class in college, the professer said you see all these books? These are the laws of the state as of last year. How many of you know them word for word? No one raised their hands. He went on to say, you are expected to know them when you set foot in this state. Ignorance is no excuse. I've never forgotten that. So to not read something that is clearly spelled out in their prize information doesn't mean you should be pissed at the company who disclosed this fact as required. You don't have to sign that you know the laws of a state when you enter it, yet you still are held liable if you break them. OK, I'm getting off track now.
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| | | 49 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:22
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13-1
SEC Champs
BCS Game Winner
#3 Final Ranking
Ok... so we lost to the Gators, but I'd rather be me than you right now! But I'm not going to turn this post into a football flaming war, I dont think that'd make others too happy.
And your comment I wouldnt expect a Georgia fan to understand. is up there with your political analysis.
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| | | 50 | Jaybird
ID: 37339146
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:22
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RE: Dave K post #37. Speak for yourself. I won some money last year (my first year) and I plan to win some more this year. But I never bothered to collect. Even if I won the Grand Prize it would not come close to being worth the time and effort I spend on this game. Speaking for myself, the money has NOTHING to do with my involvement in this game and I think you'd see almost as many people playing this game whether or not there was prize money. It is a piddling amount, and I suspect that most of the people who actually give money to this board, give away more than they have ever won from TSN. That's my take.
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| | | 51 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:27
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I think Bili is a psuedonym for one of the Dixie Chicks.Which one are you Bili the cross-eyed one,the short chubby one with the big mouth or the one that looks like Mister Ed with a blonde wig.
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| | | 52 | Pearl St. Punisher
Donor
ID: 2262713
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:39
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screw Florida. you're the ones that elected Bush. or did you? who knows! it was all a scam anyways.
-Punisher
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| | | 53 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:41
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Damn,is everyone on this forum from Georgia?Razor seems like only intelligent one.
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| | | 54 | Rogue Nine
ID: 363382623
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:51
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Well, we're actually in on it with TSN. We get a cut of the take from all those Florida dudes who sign up. Hell, we figure if they can't read a ballot right, they're certainly not going to read the official rules!
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| | | 55 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 17:55
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You are just jealous you don't have any dangling chads.
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| | | 56 | j o s h
ID: 33232910
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:01
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lol @ 13 (the clinton remark)
you're in florida, call the governor!
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| | | 57 | Farn
Donor
ID: 7822711
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:02
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Guru- Is there any chance we could add a symbol for a bottle of liquor next to posts like this? It would be nice to know what threads I need to be drunk to read.
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| | | 58 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:04
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That reminds me I need a beer,thanks Farn.
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| | | 59 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 34071820
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:06
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I believe we have found our first troll of the year.
pd
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| | | 60 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:07
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What is a troll?
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| | | 61 | Farn
Donor
ID: 7822711
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:13
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Dave K- its quite clear you were drinking when you wrote the original post.
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| | | 62 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:20
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No this is my first beer.I am shocked that anyone would agree with TSN,but then again half the country voted for Gore.
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| | | 63 | Farn
Donor
ID: 7822711
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:23
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What does Gore have to do with reading the rules? Gore can read. He was an advocate for education improvement. Maybe if you had voted Gore you too could read simple rules.
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| | | 64 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:27
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I guess when the president can hardly read, why should Joe Schmoe from Florida be able to?
(I was trying to make as much of a politically astute comment as Dave, I'm not being serious... well not totally serious)
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| | | 65 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:30
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I agree that it's the manager's responsibility to thoroughly read the rules before committing any money. But I also think that TSN should have a javascript window of some kind that says "You will not be eligible to win a monetary prize because of the law of the state provided in your address. Proceed?"
Al Gore's the man. Just take a look at those people shown in Jay Leno's "Jaywalking" skits.
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| | | 66 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:31
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You can't educate common sense.Hell,Einstein could barely tie his shoes.There are alot of well educated people that are against artic drilling in fear they may disturb a freakin' caribou,even though that would it would decrease our reliance on foriegn countries that sponsor terrorism.These people can can take pi to the 100th decimal but have the common sense of a goat.
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| | | 67 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:32
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Kinda like... people who don't read and then get mad because they didn't know what the rules said? But anyhow, I think it is time for this thread to die a natural death.
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| | | 68 | Farn
Donor
ID: 7822711
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:33
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I am in full agreement with The Left Wings in #65
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| | | 69 | smallwhirled
Donor
ID: 17152614
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:34
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With the mentioning of liquor? and beer? No way. :)
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| | | 70 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:36
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Then quit posting ya damn redneck
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| | | 71 | j o s h
ID: 33232910
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:42
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62 "this is my first beer"
depends what the meaning of 'is' is ... doesn't it?
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| | | 72 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:45
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Dawg is the Clinton jock sniffer not me.I am a G.W.Bush fan and we don't have to develope new definitions to words.
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| | | 73 | Razor
Donor
ID: 411149818
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:46
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Yes, clearly some players would be surprised to find out that they are not eligible for prizes and might adversely affect their willingness to pay and/or their willingness to pay that much. If post #2 is correct, then approximately 1 in 5 players is ineligible for prizes? I can see why TSN wouldn't want to put this prize stipulation in bold letters, though I feel they are almost obligated to. How hard would it be for TSN to place a warning somewhere more visible? Not at all. Since I'm sure they've had complaints about it, I must conclude that the decision to keep it out of the spotlight was a conscious one.
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| | | 74 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:48
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Bili: I very seriously doubt this. First, folks aren't that logical. Second, people are notoriously delusional about their own abilities.
Ya, that's sad isn't it. Makes me laugh. Of course, as the greatest fantasy player ever, I shouldn't insult the broad masses, and make them feel bad about themselves.
Toral
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| | | 75 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 18:50
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Dave K -- for the record:
I was born in England, I am all but a redneck. I lived in Atlanta for 14 years. Now I live elsewhere in the country (where is none of your business, but it isn't a redneck area). Just because I like the Dawgs doesn't mean I'm a redneck. Grow up, every insult you have said is a wide generalization (Clinton-likers, Bulldog fans, Georgia residents, etc. etc. etc.). I never even said I liked Clinton, BTW (he was a great prez on some fronts, not on others... but surely better than Bush). Let this die, please.
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| | | 76 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:09
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Here is a common sense test
1.Do you think GW Bush is a great president?
2.Should we drill in the artic?
3.Is Hiliary a bitch?
4.Does Steve Spurrier rule?
5.Does France sux?
6.TSN is ripping people off.
If you answer yes to all you should run for public office.You are very intelligent.
1 no- kinda bright but have room for improvement
2 no's -a little dim,but still hope
3 no's-parle vous fransis
4 no's-must be from Mississippi,Alabama,Arkansas or Georgia
5 no's -likes show tunes
6 no's -no hope,political and morally corrupt and probably has a goofy handle like Dude.
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| | | 77 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:17
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Dave K, you're drunk.
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| | | 78 | RecycledSpinalFluid
ID: 42121814
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:21
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Is Dick Cheney still alive?
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| | | 79 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:23
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I got 4 yeses -- put Ontario in that great group.
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| | | 80 | The Left Wings
ID: 6142019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:40
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Well, I got all No's. So I suppose I'm drunk too.
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| | | 81 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:50
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With a name like left wing ,I didnt think you would get one right.
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| | | 82 | Catfish
Sustainer
ID: 123591217
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:55
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I think you should send Bush to the Arctic, I think Hillary is great, I have no idea who Steve Spurrier is, but I bet you spelled his name wrong, my favourite French thing to suck is a bottle of red wine, and my name isn't Georgia.
And I'm from Ontario.
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| | | 83 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 93502917
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:56
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And Catfish knows that "a lot" is two words.
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| | | 84 | Catfish Dude
ID: 123591217
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:56
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And I have a new handle.
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| | | 85 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 93502917
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:57
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heh heh.
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| | | 86 | ¤ Mario LeMoose ¤
ID: 463592917
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 19:59
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Go to myfloridalegal.com for the Attorney General's "Advisory Legal Opinion" (Number: AGO 91-03) regarding gambling/fantasy sports leagues. Excerpts appear below.
QUESTION:
Does participation in a fantasy sports league whereby contestants pay a fee for the opportunity to select actual professional sports players to make up a fantasy team whose actual performance statistics result in cash payments to the contestants with the best fantasy team violate Florida's gambling laws?
SUMMARY:
Section 849.14, F.S., prohibits the operation of and participation in a fantasy sports league whereby contestants pay an entry fee for the opportunity to select actual professional sports players to make up a fantasy team whose actual performance statistics result in cash payments from the contestants' entry fees to the contestant with the best fantasy team.
Section 849.14, F.S. ... provides in part:
Whoever stakes, bets or wagers any money or other thing of value upon the result of any trial or contest of skill, speed or power or endurance of man or beast ... or whoever knowingly becomes the custodian or depositary of any money or other thing of value so staked, bet, or wagered upon any such result ... shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
The statute thus prohibits stakes, bets or wagers on the results of any contests of skill. In an early decision on the state's gambling laws, The Supreme Court of Florida found a violation of law in both games of chance and contests of skill where wages, bets or money were at stake, regardless of "whether the parties betting be the actors in the event upon which their wager is laid or not...."
See also AGO 90-58 regarding gambling/games of skill.
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| | | 87 | biliruben
Sustainer
ID: 49132614
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:02
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This is a thread for insult and slander, Mr. Moose. Take your useful stuff outta here.
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| | | 88 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:06
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Catfish,did you get lost looking for the hockey forum?Only thing worse than the French is a wannabe French/Canadians
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| | | 89 | Tree
Donor
ID: 38249212
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:10
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wow. after reading 85 posts of this thread, i've come to one conclusion, and it has nothing to do with TSN.
it does, however, have to do with another three letter word, immediately preceeded by the word Jack.
post 76 clinched it.
peace,
Tree
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| | | 90 | Catfish
ID: 123591217
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:10
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I don't think I actually said I was French, Dave K. Do you think all Canadians are French? Ce n'est pas vrai, mon petit chou.
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| | | 91 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:17
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Thank you for info Moose.TSN could easily get this info out if they wanted.TSN may be following legal grounds,but morally they have integrity of the Clintons.
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| | | 92 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:19
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I didnt say you were French ,Catfish.I said you were a wannabe Frenchman.
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| | | 93 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 93502917
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:22
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Dave K, you could have easily found the information as well. After all, it's information that's in your own state.
Like a lot of wanna-be political pundits, you spend an awful lot of time blaming others for not telling you what to do, then attack them when they do.
pd
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| | | 94 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:30
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Ms. LeMoose is so dull and factual.
Does anyone doubt Hillary is a bitch? Even (many of ) her friends would agree -- check even the books of her friends James Carville, Bob Reich.
Not to say that's a bad thing....
Toral
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| | | 95 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:34
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I wasn't buying a house,I was playing a damn fantasy league game.TSN may or may not be have a legal right to operate as they do.My point is they are jackasses for not CLEARLY letting people know.A good example is when my adsl went down.I called earthlink for free trail,2 rings I have a rep and got hooked up in 5 minutes.When I tried to cancel,there was no answer.They have 100's of people answering phone for getting it installed and one drunk loser like Dude to cancel it.It may be legal ,but it is not right.
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| | | 96 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 93502917
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:39
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Neither is your continued whining. Legal, I'll grant you, but not right.
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| | | 97 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:42
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No, they are not doing anything wrong. You are a quintessential example of what's wrong with America: can you take the blame like a man for not reading what you agreed to? No. You have to blame someone else. Like how parents blame rock music and video games for their horrible parenting, how everyone has someone else to blame for THEIR OWN FAULTS. GET OVER IT. You get to play an amazingly fun game, it is only $20. They didn't scam you, you are completely responsible.
TSN could put a more obvious warning, but it includes their rules before you sign up. It is right there on the page. Did you look at prizes before you signed up? If so, it is RIGHT THERE on the prizes page. If not, you obviously didn't sign up to win prizes. Either way, give it up Dave.
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| | | 98 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:51
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Wait a sec Dawg.I completely agree with your point about people blaming others is way out of control.That is a liberal trait.I am not blaming anyone.I am jist stating a fact that TSN sux and Dude is cajonesless.
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| | | 99 | Catfish
ID: 123591217
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:54
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O man. To be cajonesless.
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| | | 100 | UGABravesDawg
ID: 21320129
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:55
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It isn't a liberal trait, it is a human trait. Get over yourself. You are completely blaming TSN, and you know it... hypocrisy, I guess that is a "conservative trait."
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| | | 101 | TDM
ID: 263322918
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 20:58
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This is my first post on these boards ever.
Don't know why this stupid thread caused me to post?
Dave K. I only got one yes in post #76. I won my division in hoops and I would be pissed right now if I found out they wouldn't pay in my state. I agree with you.
For legit companies, fine print is for things that aren't important but must be said.
For scam artists, fine print is where you hide all the tricks...
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| | | 102 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 21:20
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Well,it is bedtime.I would just like to say all my comments were in fun.I was bored and had a few beers.Although I do believe the Clintons are turds.I am actually a tad to left of Bush,but truly believe he is an honorable man.Dawg I live with a woman from Geogia for 10 years.She wasn't too bright ,but had big tatas so who cares.I even have friends from France,but I think their leader is corrupt and has delusions of grandeur.I like desenting opinions.If not for them I wouldnt have anyone to argue with.The Canadians have been loyal friends for years and I hope we can be again when their prime minister is gone.I still believe TSN could make more well known about eligibility,but want to take advange of dumbasses like me too lazy to read all the rules.To Dude Cowabunga and peace out.
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| | | 103 | Richard
Leader
ID: 5410352713
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 21:23
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Wow - if I read Mario's post (#86) correctly, it sounds like even participating in TSN Fantasy Sports is illegal in Florida.
Are you going to turn yourself in Dave K? Have you gone into hiding hoping the Florida State Police can't find you? Perhaps you can get off by proving that TSN entrapped and enticed you into your illegal ways.
Good luck with your legal battles. I hope the judge doesn't pronounce too stiff of a sentence on you. If you do hard time, perhaps you could post a note here so we could send you a file in a cake;-)
Richard
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| | | 104 | rockafellerskank
Leader
ID: 461124288
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 21:24
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Perhaps the fact that TSN put spaces after the period in each sentence was throwing you off - making the fine print harder to read! Those dirty nasty grammer scoudrels! :)
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| | | 105 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 21:38
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Dave K: i am actually a tad to left of Bush
Well to Hell with you then. If Bush has a fault, is that he is a flaming liberal!
Have some more beers, maybe you will get even more good insight.
I know that's what I'm going to do :)
Toral
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| | | 106 | Donkey Hunter
Sustainer
ID: 55220159
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 22:29
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I am from Florida (however if TSN asks I am from North Carolina) and I read the rules to know that Floridians were not eligible for prizes and knew the law that fantasy sports were considered a game of chance from the newspaper. I also got several nos on the quiz. Please don't think all Florida people are like him.
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| | | 108 | Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Apr 29, 2003, 23:12
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For those people living in Florida -- say "New Mexico". The Hispanics want to take it all back anyway (Aztlan) and probably will be successful.
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| | | 109 | Micheal
ID: 412281014
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 14:19
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Maybe you should e-mail them, explain that you're a dumbass and can't read the rules and ask them to ignore the law. It's worth a try.
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| | | 110 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 34071820
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 14:23
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Michael, I wasn't going to post in this thread again, not wanting to BUTT it again, but if someone else did I was going to copy your post from the Hoops boards. Ironically, you put it in yourself. Great post.
pd
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| | | 111 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 20:16
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Maybe you read all the fine print,Nerd Boy,but most don't.Let me type this real slow so even a moron like you can understand.If TSN wanted people to know 10 states are not eligible,they would have it stated where you could see it without having to search for it.I was willing to let this die then this jerk that is probably 3 inches from being female had to start it up.
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| | | 112 | YOUNG BUCK
ID: 4112529
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 20:24
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guys, Dave K is my older brother
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| | | 113 | Pancho Villa
Donor
ID: 533817
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 21:49
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Isn't it ironic that Dave K wants to use this forum to whine about money(and won $200 in Fox Fantasy) yet can't cough up $5 for Guru.
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| | | 114 | penngray
Donor
ID: 423241723
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 21:53
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I knew Dave K and YOUNGBUCK were related!
Obviously there is no IQ test in the US for allowing people to vote ;) Never should be but sometimes you just wonder! I wonder if Dave K has ever been on a Jerry Springer show. He seems to fit the profile, doesnt he?
(the thread was at the top already so I didnt bump it :p)
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| | | 115 | Tree
Donor
ID: 38249212
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 22:42
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dave k - you stated in post 111 that most don't read the fine print - presuming you qualify as "most", since you obviously didn't read the fine print, you'd best avoid, among other things:
1. purchasing a car
2. purchasing a cel phone
3. signing up for just about anything on the Web
4. purchasing a home
5. *renting* a home (or apartment)
6. getting a credit card
7. getting a loan
8. buying alcohol
9. buying tobacco
10. buying diet soda
11. getting financial aid for college (although you probably have no worries here - since you have to be accepted into college to get financial aid)
12. going to any sporting event
that's a good start. anyone care to contribute of things he shouldn't do, because they involve fine print?
peace,
Tree
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| | | 116 | Stuck in the Sixties
Leader
ID: 03183014
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 22:58
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I don't remember when we started talking about this sort of thing ---- probably when Smallworld was running the show. We all vented our wrath and decided that the rules were the rules no matter how poorly stated or how small the print.
But I do remember (I was a Floridian at the time) how angry I was to finish high enough for a prize but not to be able to get one.
So now, years later, here comes another guy who's going through all this for the first time.
He may not deserve a break but we should give him one anyway.
Don
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| | | 117 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 34071820
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:02
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Stuck,
I'd be willing to give him a break if he wasn't such an ass about it. Sorry--I can accept anger at the situation but I can accept insults at us.
pd
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| | | 118 | MyDodgers
ID: 180471720
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:15
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Dave, you should just let it go and spend your next twenty bucks on a reading course.
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| | | 119 | lon
ID: 443183021
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:18
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Dave K...does the "K" stand for Kuckoo?
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| | | 120 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:27
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Anyone that says they read all the fine print is either telling the truth and anal or has the same problems speaking the truth as Bill Clinton.I am not insulting everyone just the arse clowns.I am a counter puncher,Dude,if you can't take it ,Dude,you and Michael can go to his Never neverland ranch and play with his pet monkey,Dude.
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| | | 121 | Perm Dude
Leader
ID: 34071820
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:32
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Dave's working off some anger, it seems, and some Clinton issues.
Say, Dave, that wasn't your girl Monica I saw with....nah. Though it could explain a number of things.
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| | | 122 | MyDodgers
ID: 180471720
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:33
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Dave
I was gonna just say my little bit a minute ago and be done but I just cant. I am a bit of a pontificator when something gets my goat and buddy, you got my goat. I dont feel you need to agree with everything anyone here says but I damn sure feel you need to grant respect to the other posters, especially you you would like a little. People like Perm Dude support this forum with thier brains and thier money and should be given at least a bare minimum of additional respect for paying so that jerks like you can flame them. I say to you, step off and take you lumps. Read the damn rules and quit bitchin like some oversexed undereducated high schooler. Im done.
MyD
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| | | 123 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:40
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If I donate 5 bucks can I flame Dude then?
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| | | 124 | Dave K
ID: 462472019
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:47
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BTW,I am undersexed,well edchumcated,ticked off old fart.
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| | | 125 | cancermoon
ID: 36347284
Wed, Apr 30, 2003, 23:50
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Well I never read fine print, but if i am entering something to win money i always make sure i am eligible, it just seems obvious to me.
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| | | 126 | deepsnapper
Sustainer
ID: 17103420
Thu, May 01, 2003, 07:15
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I hate to butt this thing, but I have to ask the question.
Dave K - Why are you posting all this dribble over here? Go complain to TSN on their boards. No one here works for TSN or really cares if you don't read the rules. TSN Ultimate Basketball Forum
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| | | 127 | proud canadian
ID: 28104570
Sat, May 03, 2003, 09:59
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dave k
reply to post 102
and a change of venue.
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| | | 128 | sarge33rd
ID: 324532412
Sat, May 03, 2003, 10:45
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joined this one way late, came via another post on another board referencing this thread.
TSN is doing nothing, nada, zippo, that is wrong in ref to the prizes. It has always been, the consumers responsibility to verify that a product will do what he/she expects, that they are eligible to win, that they know the rules, etc etc etc. Personal responsibility is the key here. Does TSN provide data as to who is/isnt eligible? Answer: Yes. Is it in the Official Rules Section? Answer: Yes. Have they met their moral/legal obligations in regards to disclosure? Answer: Yes.
By all means, speak to your State Atty General. But do so regarding Florida's treatment of Floridas residents. Not TSN (and several others) legal interpretation of Floridas laws.
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