Forum: base
Page 16242
Subject: RotoGuru Invitational Baseball Challenge -predraft

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 14:39
The 16 managers for the inaugural season have been selected:

beastiemiked
blue hen
Caper
darkside
Guru
J
jumpball
KrazyKoalaBears
Mattinglyinthehall
Peter N.
Ref
SlackJawed Yokel
smartone
species
tosh
Trip

All of the managers are GuruPatrons, but span the range of giving categories. Some are long-time Gurupies, others are more recent. Some are my age (or even older!), some are young. All have demonstrated some prowess in past fantasy baseball exploits. Some are RotoGuru Hall of Famers. I know there is at least one Canadian. (I had considered some from overseas, but decided not to use that as a primary selection criteria.) Suffice it to say that there were many others who were equally qualified, and it was difficult to narrow the list to 16. The one thing I am confident of is that this will be a formidably competitive league. Those who were not selected should not feel slighted.

The top 8 teams will automatically be invited to return for the second season in 2005. The bottom four finishers will be replaced. Those finishing 9-12 will be in limbo, and their renewal invitation will depend on the competitiveness of the league and other factors to be determined.

If others would like to create and compete in qualifying leagues, that would be great. While I cannot guarantee that a winner in a qualiifying league will get an invitation next year, it will be one of the primary factors in filling openings for the second season. Qualifying leagues should be structured similar to this league, although minor variations in number of teams, scoring categories, roster configuration. etc. are permissible.

Before we get started with our draft (hopefully around the first of March), we have several issues to resolve. These will be settled by majority vote of the 16 team managers, who should post their preferences here.

Pitching categories will be the standard 5: wins, saves, strikeouts, ERA, and WHIP

The 5 hitting categories will be runs, RBI, SB, a power category, and an average category.

1) should the power category be HR, total bases, or slugging percentage?

2) should the average category be batting average, or on base percentage?

The roster configuration will be as follows:
9 active pitchers
12 active hitters (C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, 4 OF, CI, MI, Utility)
4 bench

3) should some of the pitching slots be designated for starters or relievers only? OR should they all be open?

4) should the outfield slots be segregated into LF, CF, RF, and a 4th OF? Or should we just have 4 general OF slots?

5) instead of 4 bench slots, should we have 3 bench plus one DL (disabled list) slot?

Limits
6) Yahoo allows for game played limits by hitting position. Should we limit each position to 162 games, or should there be no maximum?

7) what should be the IP limit for pitching? 1250? 1350? or 1450?

A few other clarifications:
This is not a keeper league.

The draft will be a snake draft. As soon as possible, we'll have a single round during which we'll select our draft position. The first 2 managers who send me a series of the numbers 1-15 in random order will determine the selection order for draft order round. The team with the first pick will get to decide what his draft order # will be (i.e., 1-32, 2-31, 3-30, etc.) I will take whatever slot is left over.

Trades of draft picks are permitted.

Players who are not yet listed by Yahoo may be drafted. A team drafting such a player must leave a roster spot vacant until the player is made available.

Are there other issues that we should consider?

 
1Toral
      Sustainer
      ID: 2111201313
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 15:07 		If others would like to create and compete in qualifying leagues, that would be great. While I cannot guarantee that a winner in a qualiifying league will get an invitation next year, it will be one of the primary factors in filling openings for the second season. Qualifying leagues should be structured similar to this league, although minor variations in number of teams, scoring categories, roster configuration. etc. are permissible.

With the Guru's indulgence, I will plug here the qualifying league I propose to establish:
I plan to establish such a qualifying league, as discussed in this thread for the Gurupies who indicated an interest in the main thread and are not in this league.

Toral
 
2beastiemiked
      ID: 6117323
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 15:12 		Great group. Should be a blast.

1. Slugging%. There's nothing worse than watching one of your fantasy players hit a triple with nobody and get stranded.

2. OBP%. A walk is just as good as a hit except in leagues with BA.

3. No designation. If someone can somehow win with 9 SP's or 9 RP's then more power to them.

4. No segregation. Seperating the OF seems pointless and I don't think adds much to the league.

5. 3 bench plus DL.

6. 162 maximum.

7. 1450 is way too much. I'd say 1250 is about the right amount.
 
3blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 15:56 		1. Total Bases. We already have one calculator stat. It was so much fun on the last day of the season being in a tight race for runs and RBIs (and can you believe Chone Figgins did me in?)

2. On-Base Percentage is fine with me.

3. No designation.

4. No segregation although I think that would be an interesting concept if this league wasn't already interesting enough.

5. No DL slot because I hate how Yahoo handicaps your team if a DL player comes off the DL.

6. No maximum for hitters. This encourages people to use their bench, which encourages people to actually have a bench, which leads to a deeper league.

7. No innings limit. I'd prefer a starts limit, but mainly I just don't want people rotating starters with reckless abandon. I don't think that would happen in a 16 team league.

Looking at the list, I'm quite a bit scared about finishing 13th or below. Moreso than a money league, that's the value you can win by doing well.
 
4KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 16:00
  1. SLG - I just like the idea of something different than HR.
  2. OBP - As bmd pointed out, a BB is just as good as a H. SLG will take into account what that H was.
  3. No designation - It offers more strategies and with 16 teams, that's a good thing.
  4. No segregation - I like the idea of segregating, but I think 3 and 4 should be tied together. Hard to argue for separating one and not the other.
  5. 3 bench + 1 DL
  6. 162 game limit
  7. 1350: 1250 is pretty standard for fewer pitchers, so I think an extra 200 IP should be good for having 9 active pitchers. It works out to 150 IP/pitcher and that's reasonable for a mix of SP and RP.
 
5Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 16:36 		1. HR - I guess I'm a traditionalist.
2. OBP - Echoing previous responses
3. No designation - Fewer restrictions leads to a fuller fantasy experience.
4. No segregation - Too limiting
5. 3 Bench + 1 DL
6. 162
7. 1350 seems very reasonable.
 
6Trip
      ID: 2210302613
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 16:38 		1. Slugging
2. OBP
3. No designation
4. No desgnation
5. 4 bench slots
6. No limit
7. No limit (or 1450)
 
7Ref
      ID: 281551921
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 17:06 		1. HR - Power stat. Triples is more of a runnings stat and doubles are both but mainly near miss of a homer often enough that I just like the tradional homer cat.
2. OBP - Helps out the home run hitter that pitchers want to pitch around, the leadoff guy that walks/HBP. Only way you can really get credit for a walk short of a steal or scoring
3. It doesn't really matter, but I kind of like having the RP and SP designation just so someone can't start all their pithers or has to make a decision once in awhile with their relievers. 9 active pitchers probably makes this dilemma moot.
4. General OF
5. I'm torn. Like how there are more players in the pool if your team isn't hurt, but also like the 4th slot so we don't have to worry about DL. With 16 teams perhaps we should make a DL, but may force a team to drop a player that's injured for awhile if we give 4 bench slots.
6. We could even bump it up to 165 or so if you really wanted. (Not sure what the choices are as I haven't been able to log into the site yet to look at the options). With 16 teams, there are going to be some players we take flyers on and quickly learn we were wrong. Holding down games hurts this risk-taking. On the other hand if you don't have maximums, it will be constant turnover to try and maximize all positions.
7. We learned in our 20 team league that 1450 is way too many innings. No one got there. I say 1350 is where we should look here.
 
8Slackjawed Yokel
      Sustainer
      ID: 52347519
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 17:18 		1)TB - I think slugging percentage has the potential to be really skewed by the lesser hitters on the squads. This league is going to be very deep (112 more active hitters than the 20-team league a few of us are in), and I could see some of the slots offering very little production.
2)OBP
3) no designation.
4)no segregation - I wavered here a bit, but this may be overly restrictive given the number of active hitters.
5)3 bench+dl. With the deep starting lineups, the smaller bench will tend to allow for more waiver wire pickups.
6)limit to 162
7) 1350 - roughly the number of innings an mlb team would have.
 
9Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 18:28 		1. HR. I was originally thinking SLG%, but have changed my mind. Call me a traditionalist on this one.
2. OBP
3. No designation
4. I thought about this one further and now think there needs to be no segregation.
5. 3 bench plus IL
6. 162 game limit
7. 1350

We have a great group here. I'm glad to be part of it and look forward to a competitive season.
 
10J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 18:39 		1) slugging percentage

2) on base percentage

3) Open

4) 4 OF

5) 4 bench slots, for the same reason BH said

6) 162 games, although, if we go with Slg & OBP, maybe unlimited wouldn't be such a bad idea?

7) 1350
 
11blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 20:24 		Do you guys actually get that many more games when you rotate your offensive players?
 
12smartone
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 22:09 		1. TB
2. OBP
3. No designation
4. No segregation
5. 4 bench
6. no limit
7. no innings limit

thanks!
 
13Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 23:02 		There are approx. 180 game days, so aside from the occasional doubleheader, no limit on games played is effectively a limit of 180.

Questions 2, 3, and 4 have been decided. We'll use OBP, all 9 pitchers slots will be undesignated, and the outfield slots will be undesignated.

For question 1, the current tally is 4 for slg, 3 for HR, and 3 for TB. Questions 5 and 6 are roughly evenly split, and question 7 is heading toward 1350, though not yet settled.

I have one set of random numbers, but am still awaiting a second set to establish the order for selecting draft position.
 
14Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 23:15 		1. SLG
5. 4 Bench
6. No limit
7. 1350
 
15Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sat, Feb 21, 2004, 23:21 		OK, I got the second set of random numbers (provided by Trip and KKB. I applied the first set to rearrange an alphabetical list of Gurupie names, and then applied the second to assign the draft order.

Here is the resulting order:
SlackJawed Yokel
tosh
blue hen
beastiemiked
Mattinglyinthehall
Caper
Peter N.
smartone
J
jumpball
KrazyKoalaBears
species
Ref
Trip
darkside
Guru


This order applies only to the selection of draft position. In other words, Slackjawed Yokel gets to decide what his draft position will be (1 throu 16), then tosh, etc. Since we are using a snake order, the person picking 1st will also pick 32nd. The team selecting first will also have the last waiver priority to start the season.

We can immediately begin selecting our draft position. Slackjawed Yokel, you're up!
 
16Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 00:59 		SLG
4 bench
no limit
1350
 
17darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 12:38 		TB
4 bench
no limit
1350
 
18Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 12:59 		We've now settled on 1350 innings pitched as the limit.
 
19Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 13:19 		ah, what the hell, I'll pick first. (unless someone wants to give me soriano and 67 million dollars...)
 
20Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 14:18 		I'll pick third.
 
21Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 14:43 		BH RE:11, The reason I like more than 162 is because this makes you use your bench instead of your starters more. This makes the best team instead of the best starters IMM.
 
22blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 15:42 		Exactly, that's why I like no limit. If you have Miguel Tejada, why would you ever play Mark Loretta?
 
23blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 16:08 		Team Blue Hen takes 5th pick and congratulates himself.
 
24beastiemiked
      ID: 6117323
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 20:55 		I'll take the 2nd pick.
 
25Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Sun, Feb 22, 2004, 22:14 		I pick 4th.
 
26Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 07:05 		Sorry for delaying things.
First for the issues:

1. HR.
2. OBP
3. No designation
4. No segregation.
5. 4 bench
6. No limit
7. No Limit

Now for a draft position, I will select 6th. (what an imagination!)
 
27Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 09:17 		I'll vote for 4 bench (no DL), which settles that question.

The max games (for hitters) is still an open issue. We have 6 votes for 162, and 7 for no max. Jumpball, Ref, and I have yet to vote.

The first question will require a second vote. At this point the tally is SLG-6, HR-4, TB-4. We're only awaiting votes on this from jumpball and me. Since none of the choices will get a majority (9), we'll have a runoff among the top 2. If the vote ends 8-4-4 or 6-5-5, I'm not sure how we'll settle it. I guess I'll just defer my vote until last to ensure that doesn't happen!
 
28Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 09:21 		Caper, beastemiked, Mattingly, jumpball, and KKB still have to enter their team at Yahoo!
 
29Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 09:40 		I am trying to enter YAHOO right now, but there appears to be a problem. I get a message back stating that there is a problem with the server, the password is wrong and that the league is in pre-draft mode. I will try again shortly.
 
30beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 09:41 		I just tried and got in.
 
31Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 10:05 		It's fine now. I am in.
 
32 Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 10:06 		Would someone please send me the league name and PW? I moved my emails regarding this league from my inbox to my hard drive at home. Thanks.
 
33Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 11:01 		Peter N. is up for choosing his draft position.

Looking more and more like I'll have the 12th pick....lol.
 
34Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 11:09 		Guru, if our choices are between 162 and unlimited, I'll vote for unlimited. I've played in a league that had 162 before and didn't care for that limitation.
 
35Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 11:17 		You can set any number from 162 to 180, or unlimited. I couldn't think of a good reason to set a number other than 162, but if those who voted for unlimited want to set some number between 162-180, I'm amenable to suggestions.
 
36Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 11:31 		Anything at 170 or greater is basically the same as unlimited. In our 20 team league, no one was able to hit 170, though with four less teams, perhaps it would be attainable. Perhaps with unlimited that would inspire more risk taking and good players getting dropped too quickly by some trying to max out the games played.
 
37Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 11:35 		The more the better IMO. Blue Hen's and Ref's reasoning in posts 3 and 7 sum it up for me.
 
38Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 12:06 		I'll pick 7th.
 
39smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 12:09 		I'll pick 8th
 
40J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 12:32 		I see a pattern here! give me 9th!
 
41Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 12:55 		Those remaining to pick their draft order:

jumpball
KrazyKoalaBears
species
Ref
Trip
darkside
Guru
 
42 jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 18:42 		1) Slugging
2) OBP
3) 1 SP, 1 RP, and 7 open -- thtis gives you an extra sort when looking for available pitchers
4) 4 general OF
5) 4 bench
6) 162 game limit
7) 1350 innings

I'll continue the pattern by pickingn 10th :-)
 
43Trip
      ID: 2210302613
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 18:50 		3) 1 SP, 1 RP, and 7 open -- this gives you an extra sort when looking for available pitchers

Nice idea Jumpball
 
44Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:05 		What's the point of having one SP spot? To prevent people from starting 9 relievers?
 
45beastiemiked
      ID: 6117323
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:06 		So you can sort by RP or SP when searching for a pitcher in Yahoo.
 
46Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:14 		You can't do that anyway?
 
47Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:16 		Hmmm, I guess you can't. Is that a change in their format?
 
48Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:22 		We're waiting on KrazyKoalaBears to state what draft pick he wants. I won't be online much tonight, so.....

If KKB chooses to draft 11th, I will take 12th.

If KKB chooses anything other than 11th, I will take 11th.
 
49jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:53 		You can only sort by positions that you have available in your league. If you only have a P slot, than you can only sort for P. SP and RP will not be available.
 
50KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 19:59 		I'm taking last, or 16th
 
51Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 20:13 		Okay, then I will officially take the 11th pick .
 
52Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 20:26 		I'll take the 12th.
 
53Trip
      ID: 2210302613
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 20:40 		I will take 14th.
 
54Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 20:55 		darkside gets to choose either 13th or 15th. I get whatever he doesn't choose.

Good idea on the pitching slots. I assume at least 9 of you don't object to 1-1-7 for pitching slot designations, per [42].

I'll vote for unlimited games for hitters, which settles that issue, 9-7.

Question 5 already has 9 votes for 4 bench, so we'll have no DL slot.

That leaves only the issue of SLG/TB/HR. I'll vote for HR, which makes the tally 7 for SLG, 5 for HR, and 4 for TB. The four people who voted for TB need to revote for either slugging pct or HR. Those four are darkside, slackjawed yokel, blue hen, and smartone.
 
55smartone
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 21:35 		SLG is slightly less common so I'll go with SLG%
 
56Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Mon, Feb 23, 2004, 23:15 		HR
 
57blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 00:41 		No vote. Which means SLG.
 
58darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 07:58 		revote: HR, but it looks like it's moot.
draft pick: 15th
 
59Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 09:09 		Slugging percent it is.

Here is the draft order:

1 SlackJawed Yokel
2 beastiemiked
3 tosh
4 Mattingly
5 blue hen
6 Caper
7 Peter N.
8 smartone
9 J
10 jumpball
11 species
12 Ref
13 Guru
14 Trip
15 darkside
16 KrazyKoalaBears
 
60Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 09:16 		I know it's still almost a week before the suggested draft start date of 3/1, but I am ready and eager to start asap.
 
61Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 09:25 		Are there any other league settings/rules that we need to discuss? (I'll post a rules summary later today.)

How about the draft? I'd propose that we start on March 1. We could wait a few more days, but I doubt if that would change the first few rounds much (barring injuries, of course, which are always a risk during a preseason draft).

What should we establish for time limits during the draft? We need to complete 25 rounds, and the opening games are on March 30-31. So we need to average almost a full round per day. I'd propose we set a time limit to start with of 8 hours, with the clock stopping from 1am to 7am Eastern time. If someone fails to pick by the time the clock expires, then the next person may go. The skipped pick my be made up at any time thereafter.

If we bog down too many times with an 8 hour clock, then we'll shorten it.

If you see that you may be unavailable for an extended period when your next pick is due, please make arrangements to have the pick made during your absense. Leave a queue with someone else - either another manager without an intervening pick, or perhaps someone from outside the league. The time limit is a failsafe mechanism, and if we make a habit of using it, we'll never get done.

We'll wait for two rounds before we start to post draft pick rationales.

I will maintain a reference page with all draft picks.

What other issues should we address now?
 
62Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 09:29 		Here is a cut & paste from the current league settings. Let me know if you think anything is incorrect.
Draft Type: Offline Draft
Max Teams: 16
Scoring Type: Rotisserie
Player Universe: All baseball
Max Moves: No maximum
Max Trades: No maximum
Trade Reject Time: 2
Trade End Date: August 29, 2004
Waiver Time: 2 days
Can't Cut List Provider: None
Trade Review: League Votes
Post Draft Players: Follow Waiver Rules
Max Games Played: No maximum
Max Innings Pitched: 1350
Weekly Deadline: Daily - Tomorrow
Start Scoring on: Tuesday, Mar 30
Roster Positions: C, 1B, 2B, 3B, SS, CI, MI, OF, OF, OF, OF, Util, SP, RP, P, P, P, P, P, P, P, BN, BN, BN, BN
Stat Categories: R, RBI, SB, OBP, SLG, W, SV, K, ERA, WHIP
 
63Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:15 		The setup looks good.

I am not in a rush but I am ready to draft.

Thank goodness SLG won. I was already 200 players into my ranking list. The second 200 will be a lot tougher though.
 
64smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:20 		just to verify:

OBP% = (Hits + Walks + Hit-By-Pitch) divided by (At Bats + Walks+ Hit-By-Pitch + Sac Flys)

SLG% = Number of (Singles + [2 x Doubles] +[ 3 x Triples] + [4 x Home Runs]) divided by At Bats
 
65J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:26 		Everything sounds good. One idea though, what about making the time limit 6 hours, then on weekends, the deadline should probably be 1am-10am or something, instead of 7am. I'm sure I'm not the only one who wouldn't dare wake up at 7 on a weekend!!!!

Also, do we have any west coasters??? 7am on the west coast may be a little rough!
 
66Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:26 		I think those formulas are correct.
 
67Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:35 		My thinking on the time moratorium - most people should be able to check on their draft position late at night and early in the morning. So while 7am EST might seem like a tough time to start the clock for a west coast manager, he would only time-out before 7am PST if he had been on the clock for at least 5 hours the night before. Using the same logic, I considered moving the front end of the moratorium forward to 2am or 3am, and would be agreeable to that change as well.

I would also support a 6 hour clock vs. an 8 hour clock, but will yield to the masses.
 
68KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:40 		6-hour clock is fine by me, with the proposed 1am - 7am moratorium.
 
69Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 10:48 		I prefer a 6 hour clock also.
 
70smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 11:27 		6 hour clock makes sense for the weekdays... what about the weekends?
 
71Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 11:32 		6 hour clock and proposed weekday moratorium is fine.

I would vote for the clock to be turned off during weekends.

 
72Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 11:46 		<---West Coaster

6 hour weekday clock is more than enough. Weekend for 8 hours seems reasonable. I don't care about the moratorium, I'll be there.
 
73darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 11:48 		6 hour is fine by me.
 
74blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 12:01 		6 hours. And Species should be a problem. He's always been one of the better drafters in my leagues, Left Coast or not...
 
75Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 12:35 		Perhaps the issue of the weekend clock should depend on our progress to that point. If we're making good progress, we can suspend the clock for the weekend - although I'd still like people to make an effort to leave a queue with someone if they will be away for an extended period - weekend or not.
 
76Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 12:48 		To assist your draft preparation, I extracted a list of all currently listed players at Yahoo, along with listed team and eligible positions. The list was captured at 12:45pm EST on Feb 24. Any changes after that time will not be included.

Excel spreadsheet

Text file (tab delimited)
 
77Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 12:53 		We can always make changes if our current time rules are not working. I'd rather do the 8 then shorten then having to skip people several times. I'm thinking if people don't have time to pick at work, then 8 hrs is good. I like midnight to 8am EST moratorium EST because that is 5am PST, but as Guru said in 67, that would mean he wasn't on the night before and he was up.
However, if the managers can be on a lot, then 6 hrs is more than enough time.

I've never played with SLG% before so this will be a little different--which can be good. This will alter my normal strategy a little already. I suspect the first few rounds will fly by. Since Spring Training games don't start until March 4th, I'm in no hurry to start drafting.
 
78J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 14:07 		ughhhh, my work is so retarded. Most internet sites are blocked, but for whatever reason I can access these boards, but I can't access those two links Guru posted.

Anyone know any sneaky ways around stuff like this?
 
79Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 14:13 		Want me to download the spreadsheet and try to send it to you as an attatchment? Post an email address if so.
 
80smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 14:24 		J, resign!

;-)
 
81J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 14:28 		nah, don't worry about it, they'll probably just block the email.

I can download it from home.

smartone - if it weren't for those paycheck things, I would! I miss the good ole unemployed days :)
 
83blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 15:27 		J you were unemployed for what, two years?

 
84jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 15:45 		I'd prefer the largest time window possible. Roroguru is blocked at my current work site which make it tough for me to do anything during the day.
I'd also prefer to wait until after the weekend to start -- I need that time for preparation.
 
85J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 16:01 		officially it was 16 months, but I worked part time in the early phases.
 
86Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 17:09 		We will not start the draft until March 1.

jumpball, is there some way we can stay somewhat in touch with you when you're at work? Perhaps an email address where I can send you recaps, particularly as it gets near your pick? Or perhaps a list posted at an alternate IP address that isn't blocked? Or are you really going to be completely out of touch when you're at work?
 
87Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 19:41 		Anyone know the details on the 'league votes' option for trade reviews? That seems to be a new option for private leagues this year. I see in the help that the default configuration (for public leagues) requires 4 votes to veto a trade. I'd think we'd want at least a majority against, and I would be someone against the anonymity that this might allow - assuming it's similar to public leagues. Can the commish override this?
 
88Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 20:54 		Perhaps a safer alternative is to set up the league with Commissioner approval for trades, with the explicit understanding that I would only overturn a trade if there were a certain number of managers opposing it. If so, what should the number be? 8? 9? or less?
 
89Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 21:06 		I don't like any form of veto unless the trade is filled with HUGE disparities like Sexson for Aaron Boone or something like that. The other is collusion. Neither of these will happen in a league like ours. All managers should be able to be smart enough to make a trade without the league bailing them out if it's a little skewed. So if 8 people honestly think the trade is garbage, that's more than enough to veto it.
 
90blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Tue, Feb 24, 2004, 22:43 		Which side wins Sexson for Boone?
 
91Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 11:40 		To clear up any ambiguities with that 4th bench slot, since that will make 25 total players, will be drafting 24 then able to add the 25th on our own later since only even numbered rounds will work with a snake draft?
 
92Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 11:48 		We'll draft 25. Since waiver priority works in reverse draft order, that dovetails nicely with a 25th round.

Besides, I don't think the sequence of 25th round picks really makes much difference.
 
93blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 11:49 		I'm assuming no keepers right?
 
94beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 11:51 		Read the rules tool.

A few other clarifications:
This is not a keeper league.
 
95Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 11:51 		Good assumption, since I already said that in the opening post:

A few other clarifications:
This is not a keeper league.
 
96Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 11:57 		I was under the assumption that Yahoo didn't offer uneven rounds for snakes, so since that is not the case, that does work out perfectly. The wavier priority is probably going to loom much larger early on than the scrubs in the 25th round.
 
97Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 12:09 		We're doing an offline draft, so what Yahoo allows for snake drafts is irrelevant.
 
98Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 12:19 		I'll shut up now ;)
 
99blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 13:55 		Oh come on. You guys know I don't read things. I'm just a good guesser.

Ref - I think they actually allow snakes with any number of rounds. But I'll shut up now too.
 
100Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 16:08 		bh - I assume bmd meant "Read the rules fool" in post 94.

Just wanted to help clarify what we all think of you. Heh heh.
 
101blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 17:38 		No, I'm pretty sure he meant tool. As in a Terrific, Obviously Omnipotent Lipman. Duh.
 
102Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Wed, Feb 25, 2004, 19:31 		Whatever, Dolph.
 
104Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 10:46 		Here's the plan. If there are any objections, please speak up now.

The clock will start at 7am Monday morning. If the first few people want to get started before then, that's their prerogative, but the clock will not start until Monday. Slackjawed Yokel, feel free to pick ARod whenever you wish. (Or whoever...)

We will suspend the clock from 1am-7am EST.

We'll decide later about relaxed standards during the weekend, depending on how much progress has been made.

I'm working on an accommodation for jumpball so that he can check on draft progress during the day.

We will have three separate threads in progress:
1. A draft thread, which will only be used to post draft picks. Please list the pick number (eg, 1.01, 1.02, ... 1.16, 2.01), the player name, the player's team, and position eligibility. I will also maintain a separate page with all draft picks in a grid format by primary position. I will also try to update the Yahoo draft summary page several times per day.

2. A discussion thread. This will be where we communicate on anything related to the draft or to the league in general. In particular, please let us know if you have time issues, and if you have made alternate arrangements for upcoming picks (queues, deputizing someone else in your stead, etc.) Outsiders may also comment or raise questions in that thread.

3. A rationale thread. I won't start this until we get to round 3. We'll try to keep this about 2 rounds in arrears.

All threads will be on the regular baseball forum. While draft threads are generally relegated to the standings forum, this draft will attract general interest, so we'll just keep it here.

 
105Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 10:52 		BTW, for those people at the endpoints of each round (KKB and SY), the clock does not double up. You get one clock cycle to make both of your picks.

Sorry, life is not always fair....
 
106Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 11:07 		I would just like to ask that managers try and refrain from talking about players still in the draft pool once the draft starts.

8 hour clock?
 
107Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 11:11 		106 brings up something I intended to ask for some clarification on, regarding the rationale aspect of the draft.
 
108Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 11:27 		Sorry, I forgot to mention. We had eight managers request a 6 hour clock, and since I'm agreeable to that as well, we'll start it at 6 hours.
 
109Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 11:31 		Mattingly[107] - what's your question?

Each manager is requested to provide a short (1-3 sentence) rationale for each pick. In order to avoid tipping your hand about potential alternatives, we do this with a 2 round lag, so your most recent rationale posting is typically about 30-40 players ago.

For examples of these, see the RIHC draft rationale thread.
 
110Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 11:42 		It occurreed to me that I might find it hard to give an informitive rationale without including why I chose a particular player over someone else who might also fit my stated priorities. I hadn't considered that the 2 round lag would help prevent available players from being mentioned or hinted at.
 
111KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 13:55 		Guru, I'm fine with the bookends time clock. I usually always make both picks at the same time anyhow when I'm last in the draft.
 
112darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 14:59 		Everything sounds good, Guru...I really need to do a lot of work between now and Monday!
 
113Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 15:14 		I can't wait to make my pick! I'll probably fall a rationale or two behind while I'm at Spring Training the 10th-13th, but I will catch up quickly.

 
114Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 15:45 		Doing some in-person scouting, eh?
 
115Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 16:49 		I take this league seriously. Hopefully I won't end up drafting all Mariners, Royals, and Cubs (the teams I'm seeing).
 
116Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 17:38 		Guru, I can make my pick later tonight, so you could go ahead and create the threads. (I'm 99% sure that I'm taking a 3rd baseman for the yanks, but want to make sure boone is healthy first... )
 
117Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Feb 27, 2004, 22:22 		If you (or anyone) makes early draft picks, just make them in this thread for now.

I 'll set up the draft thread sometime this weekend.
 
118Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Sat, Feb 28, 2004, 00:53 		ok, I'll get this thing started:

1.01 Alex Rodriguez
 
119J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Sat, Feb 28, 2004, 02:23 		damn, I wanted ARod!