Forum: base
Page 16342
Subject: RIBC - Discussion #4

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:15
The last discussion thread topped 200 posts, so it's time to reload.

Links: Draft picks     roster grid

Draft order
1 SlackJawed Yokel
2 beastiemiked
3 tosh
4 Mattingly
5 blue hen
6 Caper
7 Peter N.
8 smartone
9 J
10 jumpball
11 species
12 Ref
13 Guru
14 Trip
15 darkside
16 KrazyKoalaBears
 
1Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:19 		Just to make sure we're all informed, we will shift to a 12-hour clock for Saturday and Sunday. 1am-7am EST moratorium still applies.
 
2Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:23 		Small talk - I know where a lot of you are from, but not all. Would you mind sharing your home town (or general area), as well as the baseball team you root for (independent of fantasy considerations)?

I presume most of you know that I live in the greater Hartford area, and have been here for more than half of my life now - 28 years. My formative years were spent in Mansfield, Ohio (about 70 miles SW of Cleveland), as a long suffering Tribe fan.
 
3Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:32 		Grew up in Levittown, on Long Island. Moved to Brooklyn 4 years ago to shorten my commute into Manhattan. I wear my allegiance to my favorite MLB team on my sleeve and in my moniker.
 
4blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:42 		I live in West Hartford, Connecticut - not far from West Farms Mall, and right near Guru World Headquarters.

It seems like only yesterday that I had lunch with Guru, and he talked about some potential areas to live with me and an erstwhile lady friend. Actually, we're only a few months away from having lived in Connecticut longer than I lived in Seattle. I'm looking to move again, so maybe we should have another lunch.

I grew up, obviously, in Delaware, the Blue Hen State. 20 miles from The Vet, we used to have season tickets, and I'm a Phillies Phan through and through. I also like the Eagles a lot.

But you already knew that.
 
5J @ Work
      ID: 2046209
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:43 		Grew up in NYC (Queens --->Mets fan)

moved to Roanoke, VA for high school (damn you dad, why did you have to get transferred), hated it...

Florida State for college

now a full time Braves-hater in Atlanta!
 
6KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:45 		Grew up in St.Pete, FL, moved to Auburn, AL for college, and have now lived in Charlottesville, VA (home of UVA and Monticello) for the last 5 years.

I've rooted for the Oakland A's since I started collecting baseball cards in the 6th grade. I was a huge fan of the Bash Brothers back then. I also root a bit for the "home" team (ATL in Auburn and BAL here in C'ville), but never as much as for OAK.

 
7J @ Work
      ID: 2046209
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:47 		And here I thought Tim Hudson made you an A's fan!

I thought this was a worthy post to bring over to this thread: =)

200 Mattinglyinthehall
Leader
ID: 1629107
Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 15:34 Are you guys sure there are enough MLB players to finish this draft?
 
8smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:47 		I am originally from Tel-Aviv, Israel, now living in NYC, slowly learning that baseball was played prior to my arrival to the US in 2000... ;-)

I found it easy to root for the Yankees (however, I admit that I felt a lot of sympathy for both the Marlins and the D-backs winning the World Series), as I grew-up rooting for a team that usually wins. Macabee Tel-Aviv, my childhood team (I played several years in their yooth organization) won the Israeli basketball championship 29 times in the last 30 years (talking about "fairness"...)
 
9KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 16:59 		J, actually, I got lucky with that one. When I heard OAK had taken Hudson, I was flipping out! Most people don't know that Hudson actually broke some of Frank Thomas's hitting records at Auburn. He was the only pitcher we had who was the DH every day he pitched. Just an all-around awesome athlete.
 
10Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 48927711
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 17:01 		I grew up in Indianapolis, Indiana, moved to Illinois for 5 years after college, and am now back in the Hoosier state (in Lafayette) for the past 2 years. Of course, we don't have any big league teams in Indiana, so everyone tends to be a Cubs or Reds fan. I've always been a Reds fan, but for the past few years have found myself rooting more for my fantasy players than any actual team. The Indianapolis Indians do sport the top-ranked minor league ballpark in the country, and have been the AAA club for the Reds, Expos, Reds, and Brewers while I've been to games.
 
11Peter N.
      ID: 42234917
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 17:04 		Made it home. I am currently on deepsnapper's computer. Just made my pick.
 
12Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 17:12 		After being born in the San Francisco Bay Area I moved to the Corporate Home of Nike - Beaverton OR - during my most formative years. It was then that, age age 9, Reggie Jackson hit 3 HR's for the Yankees against the Dodgers in the World Series that I became a Yankee fan for life. Lots of very sorrowful years followed that glorious WS victory....until 1996 of course.

Moved back to the SF Bay Area (San Jose State University) and became a Giants fan and A's follower. I currently reside near Sacramento where I've lived for 7 years.

As an aside, I see my strategy going up in smoke in this round! lmao
 
14Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 18:29 		I have three favorite MLB teams...wait a minute let me explain.

I grew up in Memphis and having no connection to a MLB team, I attached myself to the Blue Jays after seeing them play the Yankees in Yankee stadium when I was a kid. I was a fan before the Championships and stayed true to the Jays until I moved to Ft. Lauderdale and got the chance to watch a team on a more regular basis. My favorite NFL team has always been the 'Fins and had season tickets to Marino's final season. So I am now a Jays - Marlins fans.

Five years ago I moved back to Memphis and have been attending Redbirds games on a weekly basis. We got to see Pujols lead us to a championship, and have been treated to witness the struggles of Ankiel.

One thing has stayed consistent though - my hatred for the Yankees. The game I saw when I was kid...rained out.
 
15jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Fri, Mar 12, 2004, 22:55 		I grew up in the suburbs of Baltimore and spent many days and nights in Memorial Stadium with my dad and grandfather. At the risk of being called an old man, those days were spent rooting for 2 Robinsons, a Boog, and lots of 20 game winners.

Went to Va Tech to get a degree, then back to Maryland for 12 years in my first career, and now am in Northern Virginia in a suburban town called Burke for my second career.

I wish I could say that I'm still an O's fan, but Angelos took the heart out of the franchise and I'll never be able to forgive him for that.

And don't get me talking about a guy named Irsay.
 
16Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Sat, Mar 13, 2004, 13:19 		I was born in Austin, Texas, spent a couple years in Norwalk, Connecticut, raised in Littleton, Colorado, and moved to Eugene to attend the University of Oregon (Go Ducks!). I now live on Vashon Island (a small island between Seattle and Tacoma). I can't imagine living more than 5 miles from any body of salt water.

I became a Yankee fan while living in Conn. in 76-77, followed by a Denver Bear fan, then a Portland Beaver fan, and now I am a die-hard Seattle Mariner fan.

Species - I was in Phoenix this week and wanted to hook up with rfs but had no time. I will be in Sacramento next Wednesday nite through Saturday morning (with nights free), and would love to hook up if you had the time. Maybe a trip to a micro-brewery? You know how to contact me.
 
19KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Sun, Mar 14, 2004, 22:35 		Just an FYI that I'm out for the evening. I'll be back around 8 am tomorrow morning to make my picks if it's my turn by then. I would leave a queue, but right now my next picks depend a ton on who will be available when it's my turn.
 
20darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 10:26 		I'm here and should be making my pick in the next 20-25 minutes.
 
21KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 10:42 		darkside, hang around for a bit and I'll make my pick within 15 min of yours.
 
22Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 10:43 		I am a Canadian, from the east coast. I grew up in Cape Breton, an island that is a part of Nova Scotia. I did a lot of my schooling in Halifax. I now live in New Brunswick. I became an Expos fan as a youngster and remain one, albeit frustrated, today. I try and stay uo to date with the sports scene, this site helps a lot, but 5 kids can distract me by times.
 
23Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 10:48 		Five kids! What's the age range?
 
24darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 10:51 		Will do, KKB.
 
25Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:10 		Man darkside...I was confident that he'd continue to be overlooked and I was finally ready to take him. Now I may not even get a pitcher at all. So much for my 1 man Q.
 
26darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:17 		I hear ya ref. As soon as I decide on a guy that I think may get back to me, he's taken. This draft has been a tough one, that's for sure!
 
27Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:22 		I'm starting to like that 16th spot selection if nothing more than you don't ahve to worry about which guy to take!!! Just take them both and you don't have to worry about a pick for awhile!
 
28KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:25 		Well, it came down to J.Williams or Leskanic. Williams got taken right before me, so that made the decision a little easier.

Ref, kind of hard for a guy with Williams' upside to get overlooked for too long. I figured he would go this round (17) or next and he made it just at the tail end of 17. I just wish he had made it one more pick. ;)

 
29Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:38 		I almost took him before. Again, in a keeper league, he gets taken long ago.
 
30Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:45 		Sometimes too much information hurts. I nearly took him this round, but was hearing on Giants radio about the poundings he's taken and it made me temporarily gun shy.

I had Leskanic on my short list too. Tough crowd!!!!!
 
31Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:46 		Yeah, it's tough not to read anything into spring training stats. But often, that's the best approach.
 
32KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 11:56 		Leskanic was my "I hope MacDougal implodes" pick. :)
 
33Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:05 		Can somebody verify a players position eligibility for me? I can't access Yahoo! at work.
 
34Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:10 		I'm here. Send me an email, or post your question here.
 
35Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:10 		Sure, go ahead and email me.
 
36Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:14 		e-mail sent to guru
 
37Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:15 		Age range 15-8. Three girls first, then 2 boys.
 
38Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:16 		Trip - the answer is no. Outfield only.
 
39Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:18 		I can see that you do have your hands full, Caper. I grew up in a family of 5 kids, but we spanned a 13 year range from top to bottom. When I headed off to college, my youngest sister was starting kindergarten.

 
40Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:20 		Yeah, there is not much downtime at my house. They all have activitis that take precedence over anything dad has in his schedule. It is a fun place most of the time though.
 
41Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:23 		Guru - Do you want me to wait to post my rationale until you have started a new thread?
 
42Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:24 		I can see Caper's "Happy Place" is in his office late at night looking at the scores and stats! ;)
 
43Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:35 		You got that right Ref! My quiet time is when everyone else is in bed. As the kids get older that window gets smaller and smaller.
 
44Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 12:39 		Let me start out a new rationale thread. Please Stand by...
 
45darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 17:09 		Forgot to post this earlier...

Grew up in and around Columbus, OH and lived in Ohio through college. After school moved to Washington, D.C. and have been here since.

For as long as I can remember my favorite team has been the Yankees. It helped that their AAA team was the only pro sports in Columbus at the time, but that wasn't the only reason. Guess I was always just mystified by them. I always try to use the 'I liked them in the 80's' disclaimer, but I still get yelled at by my friends for liking the Yankees. Such is life.
 
46blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 18:02 		I'm off to shoot some pool. I left my 1-man q with J and others. If I don't get him, I'll be on later.
 
47J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 18:17 		actually, his exact words were..."if I don't get him, I quit"
 
48Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 20:53 		AIM me at kinlanj if I am up and I will pick promptly.
 
49beastiemiked
      ID: 262411016
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 21:02 		Unbelievable. Sheets was my #1 guy after I picked last round and came sooo close to making it back to me. My pick should be made in 10-15 minutes.
 
50Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 21:20 		OT: bmd, I believe you are also up in G20.
 
51Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 21:31 		Hopefully Slack is standing by and we can make a nice quick turn and maybe burn through this round tonight.
 
52Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Mon, Mar 15, 2004, 23:55 		I'll pick in just a sec. I keep getting distracted by Fear Factor.
 
53Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 00:03 		I tried AIMing MITH, but couldn't find him.
 
54Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 00:07 		Damn.....don't see MITH on AIM.
 
55Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 00:13 		lol......the draft halted by Fear Factor. Way to go Tosh! ;-)
 
56Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 00:19 		Well, that and a pick due in G20 at the same time. :)
 
57darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 08:02 		Hey, MITH...I was wondering if you had been thinking about taking Choi with either of your last two picks? You were the only other person who needed a CI and I almost let Choi go, but thought you might take him. Since I saw you took Hafner, I was wondering if Choi would have gotten back to me?
 
58Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 08:46 		No, I had my eyes set on Choi. I was originally going to take him ahead of Ramirez.
 
59darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 09:04 		That's good to know. I was thinking that maybe he'd make it back to me, but didn't want to give you 2 picks to test it. Makes me feel better about my choice.
 
60Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 09:07 		My first choice was actually Burroughs, but Hee Sop Choi was right below him on the list.
 
62smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 11:29 		Guru, could you please paste J's rationale for David Riske in the rationale thread, thanks!

16.08 David Riske

Honestly, I've never heard of the guy, but I hear he's good, he should have the closers job in Cleveland pretty soon, I needed some Robb Nen insurance, so what a perfect fit. I also love hearing when people tell me I stole their guy, that tells me I did good!!! :)
 
63J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 11:32 		speaking of my rationales, is it fair to say that Cristian Guzman is by far the worst reach of any single player in this draft?

I may wind up starting DeRosa at short! I'm hoping he's 2004's Marcus Giles!
 
64Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:04 		who wants a Q?
 
65 Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:05 		Give it here.
 
66Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:16 		Q sent to MITH.
 
67Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:18 		received.
 
68Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:35 		J, I like your Riske pick. I was getting ready to nab him as insurance. Was also planning on getting DeRosa with this pick, so you're doing pretty good on some of your picks anyhow ;) I'm back to square one again as Benson is even gone as my backup plan to go back to pitching again.
 
69blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:39 		Yeah, I had all those guys on my radar - Benson, Derosa, etc.
 
70blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:40 		Yeah, I had all those guys on my radar - Benson, Derosa, etc.
 
71darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:44 		yeah, i was thinking this would be the round i took benson. wish i was the only one who'd been thinking that.
 
72Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:56 		Ref - you need to repick. Lugo was already taken by jumpball in round 16.
 
73Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 13:58 		Doh!

Man I ddin't even like the pick when I took him and to see that he's already gone just rubs salt into the wounds!!! Thanks for the heads up. THough I searched the grib for everyone I was looking at but apparently forgot to do that for Lugo.
 
74Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 14:04 		OK, Guru, I think it's your pick for real this time. ;)
 
75Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 14:07 		smartone - I got a chuckle out of you Gordon rationale:
...(he better be better than Avocado last year)...)

I don't know if he'll be better than avocado, but I'll concede that he should at least outdo mango.
 
76KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 14:19 		Apparently Ref wasn't the only one to miss the Lugo pick. He's one of the only picks I've missed this entire draft. Weird.
 
79Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 15:27 		MITH: Thanks I am back (Figured Guru would take Ponson...I'll rob him with my next pick)
 
81Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 15:38 		Trip - you did exactly that! I had Rivas all cued up!

Back to the drawing board.
 
86Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 17:53 		Unbelievable, I had my guy ready again. This is insane. Back to the drawing board again.
 
87blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 17:58 		Twarpy was trying to convince me to take Ponson last night, but I figured that Farnsworth would get me more strikeouts all by himself. For the record, Armas was my second choice to Farnsworth and he's gone too.

We've made some good progress today - looks like we could finish up by the end of the week!
 
88blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:03 		Alright Guru - you're in big trouble mister.

Hudson was my top guy. Ponson was the top pitcher, and Hudson was the top hitter. And you are the top [mean person]. Farnsworth was still a hotter prop than either one and I feel he'll help my team the most, but I thought there was a (slight) chance Hudson would make it back.

Why the cough?
 
89Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:08 		I know why. Your top player stinks. Just like Royce Clayton, who won't put up 300 ab bats this year, whether he wins a starting job in camp or not.
 
90Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:12 		My list was in this order: Seo, Ponson, Lohse. So much for a list. Perhaps I should save some time and not even research until it gets right up on me. Grudz probably would have made it back. Don't like my picks so much lately.
 
91J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:13 		yeah, I'm looking forward to the royce clayton rationale
 
92Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:14 		Well, Royce does appear to be beating out Aaron Miles for the 2b job in Col - at least at this stage of spring.
 
93Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:23 		Oh yeah I was looking at Wells, too, just in case but was pretty sure Seo would get back to me--guess not. Sometimes unanswered prayers work out the best, so let's just hope Suppan can pitch like he did before now that he's back in the NL.
 
94Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:26 		I love craps. Let's hope Lieber rolls a 7 instead of snake eyes. In the grand scheme he's only going to miss 1-2 starts, as he likely would've only seen 1-2 turns before April 20-something-th anyway.
 
95kev
      ID: 3155515
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:29 		7 in craps can be very bad.
 
96KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:31 		Ref, thanks for the affirmation that I needed to take Seo this round. I was actually considering holding off on him a round, but figured he'd never make it back around. Good to know I assumed correctly.
 
97Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:33 		lol......of course I mean in the first roll
 
98Baldwin
      ID: 560191911
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 18:49 		yeah, I'm looking forward to the royce clayton rationale

Too funny.
 
99Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 19:19 		Well, I'm glad some others think Hudson was a good pick.

But he can't be that good. 300 others were picked before him.

I sure there will be some day that I'm glad I have him. There may also be about 150 days that I'd rather not.

We'll see.

 
100Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 19:21 		My mistake, Royce Clayton is likey to be the starting SS in Col.

He still stinks.
 
101Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 19:23 		Guru, I looked at him when I was looking for a MI and quite frankly, I ran away from him. Perhaps your team can withstand his poor OBP, but I that was the topper that threw him out of consideration for me. He's horrible against lefties. But he's shown that he can hit once in awhile and there is not much to choose from. I actually thought bh was kidding in his post. Who knows, maybe the joke will be on me for not taking him.
 
102Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 19:33 		Believe me, I found lots of reasons not to like Hudson. I just found as many - or more - not to like any other second baseman. Ergo, my [cough].

And, FWIW - the aggregate OBP projection for Grudzielanek (from RotoWire, RotoWorld and RotoTimes) is .331. I don't know why they are all projecting a decline from last year, but all three are.

For Hudson, that aggregate projection is .334.
 
103Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 19:43 		Yeah, I find it hard to beleive he will drop 35 points, but I'm not high on Grudz either. Figured with the improved team and his solid SLG and the fact that Baker has given the starting job to him over Walker may give him a little boost, but slim pickings for sure. Liked Lugo better, obviously. ;)
 
104GolfFreak
      Sustainer
      ID: 1730209
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 19:55 		Guru
Would it be pretty hard to add what round the players were taken on you roster grid?

would be helpful info while doing other drafts
thanks


 
105Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:00 		It would now. That grid is manually updated pick by pick, so I'd have to go back, look up all the numbers, and fill them in.

Probably not gonna do it.

 
106Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:00 		... but I might, because it would be a nice way to remember as the season wears on.
 
107Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:02 		Guru, you should have that on the Yahoo draft page. Could you copy that in a spread sheet and perhaps make new page?
 
108smartone
      ID: 292331411
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:05 		Guru #75: yeah, no typo ... didn't he pitch like an avocado while he was with the Yanks?

 
109blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:08 		Actually, I was entirely serious about Hudson. He was on my team last year (as 2B/SS) and I think he's got quite a bit of potential. I definitely like him a lot better than what's out there. I didn't question that he was the best hitter not yet taken - what I did question was that Farnsworth was better than a bunch of guys that had already gone.

I don't like Grudzielanek at all. I feel that Walker will beat him into submission before the end of the season.

Royce Clayton is a lousy baseball player. I make no beefs about that. However, given 300 plate appearances in Coors Field HAS to help at least a little bit. I mean, Vinny Castilla was a pretty crappy player and so was Dante Bichette. For a late rounder at a position I needed pretty badly, I don't have too many beefs. That sounds like a rationale.
 
110J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:10 		I'll trade you Walker for Clayton ;)
 
111Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:13 		Grudzy was horrible in LA but had a nice year last year in Chicago. I'm not big on Walker either. I figure that many of these picks around here and later are suspect of hitting the waiver wire. Royce can surprise you at times.
 
112Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:35 		I figured out a reasonably quick way to insert the pick numbers in the grid. So each name is now preceded by the round number.

Let me know if you notice any errors.
 
113Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 20:57 		Out of curiousity, and I don't want to offend anyone...how many people don't use Excel (or similar program) to track the draft and their rankings?
 
114smartone
      ID: 292331411
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:09 		Trip, may I dare to ask what is the size of the Excel file you are using?

Since I am drafting both from home and work, I often use Yahoo's Briefcase which limits a file size to 5MB, so I had to break my Excel into 2 parts, one holds the projections and the other follows the draft from two different prospectives: available players pool (with position-realted calculations etc) and "most valuable player" which is based on the simulated rankings (according to the projections)
 
115blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:16 		I don't really use anything. I just draft from memory. Of course, some of that memory belongs to Smallwhirled, some to Mikel, some to Twarpy, and some to Chris.
 
116KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:18 		2 spreadsheets. The "cheat sheet" one is about 1.25 MB (across 11 worksheets) and the ranking one is about 300 kb. I just zip them up and email them back-and-forth each day to work and home.
 
117J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:23 		I have 2 separate spreadsheets. One at home, one at work. The one at home has links, since I can use them, the one at work has none, since I cant. I used to just use an old fashioned disk to transport em back and forth, but the last few times I haven't been able to open it at work.

My file here is 1,630 KB
 
118beastiemiked
      ID: 262411016
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:46 		My file is 0kb and only requires me to be awake for it to be accessed.
 
119Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:58 		My spreadsheet is 4.8Mb. Separate rankings for hitters and pitchers from projections of RotoWire, RotoWorld, and RotoTimes. Another sheet aggregates all of the rankings into a single list. I also have two sheets for rankings with 2003 actual stats. I don't integrate those into my overall rankings, but do keep the numbers visible so that I can see the extent to which a player needs to improve (or deprove) to justify the ranking.

Then there are 3 sheets in which I calculate the pro forma league standings using each of the three sets of projections. I can toggle these back and forth to use hitting and pitching averages or totals. At this point in the draft, I usually look at totals, but earlier on, I generally look at averages (e.g., average steals per hitter, average runs per hitter, etc.) Using averages compensates for the differing number of players. Of course, it still doesn't compensate for the different composition of the hitting lineups - those with catchers vs. those without, etc. That's where the computer stops and the brain has to take over.

It's really interesting to see how dramatically different some of the projections are. For example, I have KKB ranked #2 using RotoWire projections, but #14 using each of RotoTimes and RotoWorld. Go figure. (His rankings have been that skewed for quite awhile, so it must relate to several players in the earlier rounds.)

And, of course, a lot of the categories are really bunched up, so small differences in projections can have a big difference in a category ranking.

I'd be lost doing this without the analytical support. But then, that's my strength. If I had to rely on subjective assessments, I'd be in big trouble.
 
120Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 21:58 		BTW, we're all caught up on rationales. Thanks!
 
121Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 22:09 		When I made that post I knew would offend both sides and it looks like I have. I expected the majority to use some sort of spreadsheet, like me. Mine is only 200kb long (surprisingly I haven't heard any complaints from the ladies), but I keep auto-filter running, and have my players grouped into position tiers so that I will notice when a subgroup is getting scarce. It would be interesting to trade spreadsheets after the draft is finished. Of note is the fact that my ratings were severely deficient in ranking the SB and Save leaders. I try to manage this by bumping up these outliers but have realized that my systems for this are severely deficient. In retrospect, next year I will probably include separate tiers for SB leaders. I believe that I have compensated enough for the c-losers. I am incredibly impressed by those managers who can manage a draft in their head. My brain ain't that big and I can already freak enough people out by some of the stats that I can throw out.
 
122Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 22:42 		So who was offended? I didn't see anyone...
 
123J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 22:48 		me either
 
124Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 22:50 		My thoughts on my initial post was that I would offend both the non-spreadsheet and the spreadsheet user. I thought that I would bug the non-ss user because of the calculations that I used and the ss-user because of the lack of depth that I used in my calculations.
 
125jumpball
      ID: 198192210
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 22:59 		Sorry for the delay guys, I was practicing the 4 corners for the tournamnent.
I was also trying to think of a retort for species. :-)
 
126smallwhirled
      ID: 471461310
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 23:02 		Haha, some guys go through all those projections and some just always go with the gut. There are pros and cons to each method. I always use my gut, and make some bonehead mistakes in roto (drafting guys that destroy ratios without realizing it at the time is an example), but I usually get good sleepers and it works for me in TSN.
 
127blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 23:12 		I'm offended by Trip's post, if only to piss everyone off.



 
128Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 23:32 		I have a projections list and I rely on my experience in our 20 team league to remember how important certain cats and positions are. You'd think 16 teams would be easier, but with a CI and MI and another OF and 3 more pitching slots, it's gonna be pretty tough just the same. I discount players and add premiums to other players that can really help. I use more of my brain I guess but take at last year's stats and projections as a guide. I also feel that when these projectionists or prognosticators get together they read the same info and tend to overvalue certain players more than others--esp. young players...just a feeling. Anyhow, I like the feel of the game a little more than using pure stats.

That being said, I'm deeply interested in Guru's model. After the draft, perhaps Guru could post how we rank from his models before the year and see how close that is to how our teams finish at the end of the year. I know other's use statistical models too so I think that would be fun to see which model is the closest. Obivously we will have turnover but it would still be fun to see how the "experts at rotowire/rotoworld/rototimes" see us ending up in the standings like they do the real big league teams.
 
129Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 16, 2004, 23:52 		I use the numbers more as a guide. I've got a set of projections that are translated into a "dollar values" list that I go through and just check off manually. So I would say I'm more in the smallwhirled mode with an assist from the numbers. I also use a "Cheat Sheet" just to scan down and see who they have left that's actually ranked.

I had a reasonably defined strategy that was the basis for my picks as well......and I'm sure Guru will have us all write a recap as to what our strategy was going in, how it worked, how it flopped, etc.
 
130J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 00:08 		I pretty much do exactly what Species does!
 
131Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 00:54 		Yeah, I'm in a similar mode to Species as well. The night before the draft started I printed out a set of rankings and projections for each position. I then went through and numbered my top 140 or so on the printout. I've been carrying this back and forth to work and marking off the picks. And I've got another list and various scribblings for this and the two other slow drafts I've got going on (As Dennis Miller would say, these pages now have more dog ears than a Korean buffet...)

In addition to this, middle of last week I put together a spreadsheet in which I've been keeping an ongoing set of standings (average and totals) based on the current rosters and rotowire's projections. I wanted to be able to address particular needs with these late round picks.
 
133Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:09 		I dug a little deeper into the ranking differences for KKB [see 119], and I think the numbers are calculated correctly in my spreadsheet. The differences are mostly in pitching. RotoWire ranks 7 of his 8 pitchers more favorably than the other services, incl. Hudson, Batista, Cordero, Radke, Redding, Seo, and Leskanic. Only Hoffman is relatively consistent across the three projections. His RotoWire ERA and WHIP are 3.25/1.21, both very highly ranked. For RotoWorld, they are 3.90/1.28, both near the bottom. RotoTimes: 3.73/1.29. (WHIP rankings are very congested, so small differences are greatly magnified.)

 
134Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:14 		MITH - I want to make sure you realize that Termell Sledge is not yet listed in Yahoo. You are welcome to "reserve" him, but you'll have to keep that slot open until he is listed.
 
135darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:16 		I'm about a 95% gut manager and I think I could end up in loads of trouble because of it....we'll see. At first I was just using ESPN's top 200 and marking off when a guy was taken, but it seemed like we were through that list the first day. Then I started keeping track on the spreadsheet of Yahoo players guru posted before the draft. Now, I'm just winging it. I did no projections, didn't have an overall plan and didn't rank anyone. About 4-5 rounds into the draft I started worrying about it, but don't feel that I'm in a bad way so will just let the season play out and see if I need to change my approach to fantasy baseball.
 
136KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:24 		darkside, I won't tell you what a strict RotoWire projection has you at. ;)

Guru, for a strict RotoWire projection, you are correct on my ERA and WHIP numbers. Personally, I've adjusted a few of my pitchers' ERA (like Radke) because I think RotoWire's projections are a bit too far away from those players' 2003 and 3-year average ERA. Still, according to my own rankings, I'm still in the top 3 in both categories. Now if we could only play this game using projections. :)

 
137Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:30 		Thanks for the heads up, Guru. I'll keep a spot open for him.
 
138smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:30 		KKB, in order to check our "draft skills", I was thinking about running a mirror-league that prohibits trades (maybe maybe allowing to pick a player from the FA pool if a roster-player is waived from his team and/or placed on a 60-day IL) - while allowing only intra-squad management.
 
139Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:39 		darkside, as KKB implied, you are ranked last using RotoWire projections. But using RotoTimes projections, you are #5, and #10 using RotoWorld.

If you were using ESPN rankings, I believe they are based on traditional 5x5 categories, which use HR and AVG instead of SLG and OBP. Further, your projected OBP is relatively low (e.g., RotoWire: .346, which is dead last), suggesting that your list may have been biased by over-ranking players with good batting averages but less favorable OBP.

 
140darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:55 		Yeah, all along the guys I was picking I liked for one reason or another, but they all had terrible obp. While it's not good to necessarily ignore a category, I decided that obp was going to be what I let suffer.

If my gut pans out, I think I'll do ok. If not, well, someone's gotta be last, no matter how good we've done in the past.
 
141Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:56 		... and lest anyone put too much credence into these preseason projected rankings, here is the comparable RotoWire ranking projection for the RIHC (Hoops), compared to the current standings:

Curr Proj
  1    5
  2    4
  3    7
  4    1
  5   11
  6   10
  7    2
  8    6
  9    9
 10   12
 11    3
 12    8
Admittedly, a lot of transactions and injuries have had a major influence on the actual standings. But I suspect a lot of the projections turned out to be crap as well.
 
142Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 11:59 		How does my group of misfits stack up in the projections?
 
143Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:00 		Any plans for you guys to make those team projections public?
 
144smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:01 		Caper, I have you in the middle of the pack
 
145smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:02 		I don't mind to publish my projection-ranking after we finish the draft
 
146Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:14 		Caper, I have you #2 using RotoWire, and middle of the pack using the other 2.

I'll post the final projected rankings for the three services after the draft is over.
 
147Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:42 		Yeah, I'm using Rotowire projections and my gut to make selections. I am not sure which gets the final vote though.
 
148Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:43 		...as evidenced by my JC Romero selection, my gut has considerable influence
 
149KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:51 		As the saying goes, you won't win your league with the draft, but you can certainly lose your league with the draft. Currently, I don't think there's anyone who has actually lost this league based on the draft. A lot of the numbers are just way too close. Even though darkside is last according to a strict RotoWire projection, I can bump him up, and others down, a few in each category and he's suddenly pretty close to the middle of the pack. That could happen through out-performing by some of his players, under-performing by other's players, or even some key FA acquisitions. And the same thing goes for those at or near the top of the rankings. Minor projection changes have a big impact in this league.

Projections are just that: projecting. If we could all project into the future, I'm sure we'd be doing more with our skills than fantasy baseball. ;)

 
150KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 12:53 		smartone (#138), I would be interested in a league like that.
 
151Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:03 		I'm a banker by trade so I consider myself a numbers guy. If I had the time , from a strategical perspective I too would probably be tracking the entire league in the manner in which Guru and others are doing to see where their teams stack up as the draft progresses. It can be a nice guide and can help a manager address categorical deficiencies on the fly during the draft.

That being said, if you can't manage your way out of a paper bag, these during-draft projected numbers aren't going to mean diddly squat come September. Guru has always acknowledged a skill bias towards the quantitative side, and I would imagine a few others here fit into that category.....while others here using their "gut" or "winging it" might have a stronger in-season managerial component.

I don't have to remind Guru about our challenges in PROFL last year. Our first two picks were Randy Johnson and Barry Zito. Other "notable" picks included Junior Spivey and Charles Johnson, to name a few. While we had some hits with Carl Everett (who we traded at peak value) and Hank Blalock, the bottom line is that there was no way in hell we would finish **4th** in that league if the team wasn't managed well. In season management is nearly as important as a good draft.

IMO there is a certain flaw in Guru's pitching strategy to where he is not gaining as great an advantage as he believes he might be. I'll elaborate after the draft, but bluntly if he took our PROFL experience to heart I would wonder if he would see it himself.

The "x-factor" for those who are stronger managers than by-the-numbers drafters is the 16 teams factor. The waiver wire is simply going to be very thin......and when that fish ends up in the pond you'd better be on it FAST or you'll sink.

I love the discussion however. It's going to be a GREAT league....I consider it much more competitive than my "in person" 16 team auction-style league I've played in for 10 years.
 
152Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:12 		You will be surprised how many nice FAs there are at times. We have 23 players/team in our 20 team league (460 players). With 400 players in this league, and with 4 less teams with mandatory positions that must be filled, I expect a decent amount of activity on the waiver wire.
 
153Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:16 		Agree that the waiver wire will be active, but I think mostly with the swapping of mid-infielders, setup men and other minimal players on hot and cold streaks and part-timers stepping in for injured starters. I don't beileve there will be a whole lot of waiver/free agent pickups that will be terribly impactful. Of course there will be some, but not like in a more typical league.
 
154KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:27 		Part of my post-draft explanation will involve the 8-team (16 manager) Tag-Team league I was in last year. It certainly made me appreciate the FA market and Waiver Wire.
 
155Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:32 		MITH, you will be surprised. I know I was last year.
 
156Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:37 		MITH, a difference that might limit activity a smidge in comparison to the two leagues though: 20 team league has 23 players but only 15 every day starters (9 position and 6 pitcher 8 bench spots) while this 16 team league has 25 players with room for 21 every day starters and only 4 bench spots.
 
157Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 48927711
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 13:52 		Ref - case in point for #155. Last year in G20, I had some early season injuries, and was struggling to find someone who could produce on my team in the util slot. I dropped David Ortiz who had been a very late round draft because he wasn't really playing at the beginning of the year.

With the short benches, we're sometime forced to drop guys who really turn it on late in the year. Same with Darius Miles in RIBCQ hoops this year... and Kwame Brown.
 
158blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 14:25 		MITH or someone IM me when MITH picks.
 
161Peter N.
      Sustainer
      ID: 17103420
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 14:59 		I'm born and raised in Dallas, TX. I actually live in a suburb just north of the DFW Metroplex. I am probably the youngest one in the group(turn 20 in August). I'm currently attending Texas Tech University. As far as my favorite baseball team, I root for the Texas Rangers.

Regarding draft strategy.....I use a mix of projections, rankings and my gut. No spreadsheets here.
 
162Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 16:33 		Am I the only one who had never heard of Jesse Crain?
 
163smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 16:36 		Jesse Crain
 
164J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 16:39 		can I put money on Ref wanting Wilson Alvarez? :)

and I've never heard of Crain or Terrmell Sledge
 
165Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 16:41 		BTW, I think I know what Species is referring to, and that's the risk that top-flight relievers fail to put up top flight numbers as expected. For example, I remember that Arthur Rhodes was a key ingredient to our draft last year, and I don't even think he lasted on the roster for half a year. Benitez also was a real problem - though that was perhaps less of a surprise. Arguably, it doesn't take very many bad innings to turn a reliever's 1.0 WHIP into a 1.40 WHIP.

On the other hand, a bad inning by a reliever is no worse for a fantasy team than a bad inning by a starter. It may have a bigger impact on the individual player's ratios, but the impact on the team's ratios is no different. And I feel more confident about a staff with a lot of (hopefully) good relievers than I do with a staff of mid-range starters.

Besides, I figured I needed to differentiate somehow. If I play this the same as everyone else, I am likely to finish in the middle. If I differentiate and it works, I think I have a better chance - especially in a deep league - to finish high.

We'll see.
 
166blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:16 		21.05 Jesse Crain, RP, MIN

Crain was the closer at University of Houston in 2002. He was then drafted by the Twins and a guy named Ryan Wagner took over the closer role. Maybe you've heard of him. The word on the street is that Crain throws even harder than Wagner, and that was blatantly obvious by the way he absolutely demolished Double-A hitters in 2003, to the tune of a 0.69 ERA and 56 strikeouts and 13 hits in 39 innings. Crain maintained his strikeout rate with decent peripheral numbers upon moving to Triple-A.

As Baseball Prospectus put it, "The amount of time it takes him to break into the Minnesota pen, and then into the closer role, could be breathtakingly short." Clearly, I am banking on some ineffectiveness by Joe Nathan, which isn't asking for all that much, is it? The question wasn't whether I'd rather have Jesse Crain than J.C. Romero, but how long I could wait until I took Crain. I've been sitting on him for quite a few rounds (just ask Chris or Smallwhirled), and now, in the 21st round, the choice was completely obvious.

You can take your light-hitting shortstops, your rookie catchers, and your middling middle relievers. I want a player who has a chance to have serious impact by the end of the season, or even by midseason. I want Jesse Crain. And hard as it was to keep my mouth shut about him, I got him.
 
167Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:16 		I haven't looked at the link, but Jesse Crain is a big time closer prospect for MIN.....think Ryan Wagner without as much hype. He along with JC Romero (who I liked as well) would be in line behind Nathan if Nathan gets hurt or falters.

Sledge is a studly prospect for les Expos that can challenge for their RF slot. Great minor league numbers, although he's a bit old if my recollection holds.

Guru - yes you are correct, although it's deeper than just that. I'll elaborate later.
 
169Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:24 		Species, you are right. Alvarez was my next pick. I actually had delusions of him getting back to me. I was actually confident of it.

RE: 157 Yokel, I'm also the idiot who dropped Dontrelle Willis, then when I go to pick him back up a week later when him and Ellis were both doing well, I got Estes, then went to get Willis perhaps 30 secs. later and someone had gotten him. He was shown as a FA still but it wouldn't go through. He may have beaten me by 2 or 3 secs. I dropped Estes after his next start. Boy did I flub that one up!!!
 
171Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:53 		Species - Darrell May was going to be my next pick.
 
172Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:54 		I too wanted Alvarez, but settled on Darrell May.

If May duplicates what he did last year, he'll be a great safety net/contributor to my rotation. In the 2nd half he went 9-4 with a 3.55 ERA and 1.126 WHIP. I'll take those numbers any day of the week.
 
173Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:56 		Good to know, Guru. It helps calm one's nerves when you pluck someone from the top of another's queue.

I'll trade him to you for one of your relievers! ;-)
 
174J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 17:58 		It sure does help :)
 
175Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 18:06 		Well lately, none of my nerves have been calmed!!! Man this is not going well.
 
176blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 18:16 		I still feel good about my last pick even though he doesn't seem to have been at the top of anyone's queue.

Glavine's the kind of guy who just sticks out when he's still not drafted, but I wasn't going to take him over Meche. And you never know about Rondell White. But the last guy to go that I had any serious interest in was Scott Williamson. And I already have five relievers.
 
177J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 18:24 		Williamson & Rondell White were at the top of my last queue with Alvarez. Alvarez had been in my sights for a few rounds now.
 
178Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 18:36 		I accidently got my Suppan and Grudz rationales intermingled. My so much for the list part should be for the Suppan pick. Not that it adds or subtracts much value.

I like Rondell White. Had him as my top OF left, but wanted Alvarez if he was on the board. If both of them were gone, I was going to take a SS to help make up for all my injuries that I've already incurred.
 
179KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 19:07 		Meche, Alvarez, May, and Pavano. All were on my pitcher (too?) short list. All are gone. Yippee.
 
180KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 20:56 		Where oh where did darkside go? I've got some picks I'm itching to make because it's the only time I know for sure that I'll get the guys I'm looking at. :)
 
181darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 21:02 		Just got on KKB. Am looking at the situation (massacre?) right now and should make a decision in the next 45 or so minutes.
 
183blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 22:19 		did darkside just pick and leave?
 
184darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 22:56 		no, got a phone call. have to do a few things, but should have my pick in the next 45min.
 
185blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 23:54 		uhhh...
 
186darkside
      ID: 4218517
      Wed, Mar 17, 2004, 23:55 		If you really want I can leave it till morning.
 
188Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 01:02 		Queue sent to KKB- hopefully he's an earlier riser than me.
 
189Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 02:33 		When it comes around to me at 22.14, I will not be around to pick until approx. 1:30 Pacific time. I am unable to come up with an 11-man queue with the assorted lot of misfits and role players I see remaining on the draft sheet. Sorry for any delays.
 
190Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 09:52 		Cormier and Bradford were my entire list this pick. Only had a few picks before me. Again, my horrible last part of the draft has been mostly due to having to change strategies at the last second because the players I wanted to fit my need were swiped out in front of me.
 
191Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 10:09 		There were several pitchers that are projected much better than Anderson, but my gut just wouldn't let me take those other guys over him.
 
192blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 11:52 		Argh. Another report on how many picks per day we've done?
 
193Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 12:13 		343 picks in the book. That's about 20 per day.

We have 57 picks to go. If we don't finish over the weekend, we should wrap up on Monday. I'll try to have everything updated at Yahoo shortly after the draft completes, and I'll give everyone a chance to look over their posted rosters there before releasing the hounds.

At that point, all undrafted players will be on waivers for 2 days. Waiver order will be reverse draft order (i.e., KKB will be #1).
 
194darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 12:17 		Still antsy to make your next pick, blue hen?

I think we've done incredibly well in getting the draft done in a timely manner. Thanks to everyone for being so diligent about checking in, it's been a good draft (but very difficult!).
 
195smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 12:23 		since J has only partial browsing access, I just emailed him the previous draft picks and I assume that he'll get back to me shortly. However, I will be out today between 12:45-16:00, so in case that I don't hear from J until 12:40 or so, I would like to have someone else take care of both of J and my picks. Therefore, if anyone is available - please let me know and I'll email you my 2-men queue (well, it's actually 1 name at this moment) and I'll also ask J to email his pick to this new address, thanks!
 
196Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 12:26 		I'll be around for queue management today.
 
197J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 13:11 		the email from smartone just said to email my pick to guru, but I actually got in here and picked myself, hope thats just as good!
 
198blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 13:24 		Actually, this is one of the best slow drafts I've ever been in, and I think that's largely due to a great selection committee. I remember the XFL draft was lousy because nobody knew any of the players and we had guys who'd go away for days at a time. I think here we were selected for our devotion and Guru did a great job of discerning that. As I said before, I'd like to see some of his thought process about why each manager was picked for this league.

Actually, I'm only antsy because I don't have anyone in particular in mind for my next pick. With Crain, I knew I was going to get him and it was just a matter of time until I made the pick. Now I just want it to get to me so I have a clear idea of what my options are.

 
199KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 13:26 		"Now I just want it to get to me so I have a clear idea of what my options are."

You know it's a tough league when I'm over a round and a half away from picking again and I'm thinking the same thing.

 
200blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 13:28 		Actually, this is one of the best slow drafts I've ever been in, and I think that's largely due to a great selection committee. I remember the XFL draft was lousy because nobody knew any of the players and we had guys who'd go away for days at a time. I think here we were selected for our devotion and Guru did a great job of discerning that. As I said before, I'd like to see some of his thought process about why each manager was picked for this league.

Actually, I'm only antsy because I don't have anyone in particular in mind for my next pick. With Crain, I knew I was going to get him and it was just a matter of time until I made the pick. Now I just want it to get to me so I have a clear idea of what my options are.

 
201blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 13:35 		Dammit. Why does it post twice all the time. 4 minutes apart.

J took Laynce Nix, who was my highest rated corner player (1B, OF, DH) left. That's the bad news. The good news is that he's the first player on my radar to go in well over a round. And I saved some money on car insurance.
 
202J
      Leader
      ID: 49346417
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 13:44 		lmao, I get ripped off on my car insurance, even with Geico.

I've been looking at Nix for a while now and wasn't sure when to take him. I've got my eye on a couple other pitchers, but didnt feel right about taking them right now. I don't really know much about Nix other than he likes to strike out and not walk, brilliant!
 
203Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 14:00 		Note to Guru - My rationale for my 18th round pick, Horatio Ramirez, is in post 65 of the Rationale Thread.
 
204Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 14:05 		And my 19th round rationale is posted in the thread but is out of order. It needs to be cut and pasted and then the out of order post deleted.

Geesh....can't we get good moderator help these days? Good help is so HARD to find.
 
205beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 14:14 		Wickman to miss first half of season with elbow injury

Sorry Darkside. I'm sure J will console you.
 
206Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 14:29 		I was getting Riske with that next pick before J took him. Almost took him earlier but knew he'd be available later. My motto has always been that if you want a player, grab him now and reach--don't take chances. I've done that with a few picks, but just thought he'd drop and I was right--but just didn't drop far enough.

I hate slow drafts with a passion. You are tied to the computer waiting on your pick at times and news happens during the draft and it can be unfair. I'd much rather do it all at once in a fast draft no matter how long it takes. That being said, this has been by far the best slow draft I've ever been a part of. I agree with Blue Hen *Doh! did I just say that?!?!* ;) I think the thing that slowed it down as much as it did (at least for me) was the quality picks being made that forced us to re-research our needs to that of what was still left. These deep leagues with such great competitors make me such a better student of the game.
 
207darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 14:43 		Wow, that's really terrible for my team (and great for J's). I was unhappy when J took Riske as I knew I needed to have him on my team for exactly this reason, but thought he would get back to me. That'll teach me. This really sucks, though. Thanks for the info.
 
209Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 15:22 		Lemme guess - here's the Rickie Weeks rationale:

22.12 Rickie Weeks, 2B, Mil
Placeholder.
 
210blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 15:24 		Have you at least heard of him?
 
212Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 15:26 		We've had a few (2 or 3, I think) draft picks that are not yet listed on Yahoo. What I'd like to do is assign some name to each of those slots on Yahoo, rather than leaving them empty. This will help us monitor those situations.

Who would be good placeholders? Aaron Boone is one thought that comes to mind. Someone who will not produce any stats, and whose name is easily recognizable. Any other ideas?
 
213darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 15:27 		Gutsy pick w/ Weeks.

I knew I was delusional to even entertain the slightest hope that Jimenez would still be around. Thanks for confirming, MITH.
 
216blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 15:46 		Use Jesse Foppert. He's out a while and has proved not to be that effective when he does pitch. Also, you can use Mike Bordick - he's retired.

As for Weeks, I can't post any kind of rationale without mentioning other players. Basically, I had it narrowed down to about 8 remaining middle infielders, and I thought weeks had the most potential to escape mediocrity. If he does, he'll play. If not, he'll sit on the bench and it's not like I'm losing all that much.

At this point in the draft, I'm out of players I want. Everyone who I expected to draft ended with Crain. At this point, I'm looking for potential to become elite rather than getting some middling player who might only contribute slightly to the counting stats. As I've said, I might have taken Nix here to add some depth, but once he went, I knew it was up to the middle infielders for this pick. I flesh that out a bit when I post my rationale.
 
217darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 16:02 		Is Weeks gonna make the team? Rotowire, while they're not the end all of info, is saying he was assigned to AA and is most likely to be a mid-year callup...do you think he'll make the ML roster?
 
218Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 16:26 		Weeks is an upside pick with no current value.....and darkside is correct. Weeks is in AA now and would be unlikely to return, barring injury on the ML club, until July at the earliest, if not Septempber when rosters expand.

Plus, MY extra MI, Junior Spivey, is going to kick so much ass that there's no need to rush Weeks to the majors!

Of course, that could also mean Spivey gets traded to some New York team who needs a 2b. ;-)
 
219blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 16:32 		I thought about that Darkside, but I hadn't heard anything like that until you said it. Basically, I can put Weeks in the slot and not hurt my OBP and SLG instead of getting some crappy player. If Weeks comes up and starts hitting (a la Cabrera), then in he goes.
 
220blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 16:37 		Don't you mean the Mets? I hear they have too many shortstops...
 
221beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 16:57 		Amazing, Tosh steals my guy 1 pick before me twice in a row.
 
222KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 16:59 		Guru, you can add John Burkett (retired) to the list of placeholder names.
 
223Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 17:13 		Rationale for Rivas (didn't anyone else think RJ was a little too convincing as a pro bowler):

20.03 Rivas - 2B - Min

Time to lock up my last batting position. I am a believer in the old fantasy adage that hitters are easier to gauge than pitchers when drafting. I did have Orlando Hudson projected higher in my rankings (4.33 to 3.26 - Soriano scored a 16.65), I drafted Rivas for his projected SB totals (21 vs 8) and these projections are the highest of the remaining ugly bunch of availables. Rivas could very well swipe 30 this year (31 in 2001) after coming off two injury plagued seasons. At 24 Rivas is also another in my large group of under 25'ers, and like the rest of this group, has significant upside.

 
224Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 17:14 		bmd - We must have the same draft tendencies, because I've lost count of the number of times I've silently cursed your name. Great minds think alike.
 
227Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 17:31 		Ref 206:
Hate to pimp my league in this thread but I have an ESPN style league with a live draft described here. It is set up like ESPN (one less OF than this format) and I would be willing to increase the amount of managers to 12. Blue Hen has showed interest if that helps.

Only 2 managers remaining to have a full roster!
Guru - 1 MI
Smartone - 2 Pitchers
 
229Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 18:12 		I just set up a new rationale thread for rounds 21-25.
 
230blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 23:29 		Hmm. I was right. After Crain it goes downhill. Weeks still fits into my plans, but I really feel hampered at the middle infield position. Castro was the guy I always wanted to back up Piazza, but it feels odd for some reason.

Anyway, the team is fine.
 
231Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Mar 18, 2004, 23:59 		Trip, doubt if I can fit much more on my plate, but I'll take a look.

BH are you on crack? that 23.12 is my pick. I think you meant 23.05.
 
232blue hen
      ID: 4300290
      Fri, Mar 19, 2004, 00:30 		I'll fix it when the crack wears off. And maybe I'll fix my last two picks as well.
 
233Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 19, 2004, 08:31 		I'm going to start up one more discussion thread to take us to the finish line.