Forum: base
Page 16400
Subject: RIBC - Regular Season Discussion #1

  Posted by: Guru - [330592710] Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 10:15
Now that the draft has ended and all undrafted players have cleared waivers, we move on to the season.

This thread will be for general discussion, open to league managers and others.
 
1Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 10:22 		So how is everyone's casualty list? I already dropped Mark Ellis, after a shoulder dislocation will sideline him for several months. Fortunately I waited until round #24 to draft him, so it's not like there's a big opportunity loss.

It also sounds like Jason Bay will start the season on the DL. Preston Wilson is still uncertain for opening day, but he seems to be progressing OK.
 
2darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 10:29 		One big hit - Jason Schmidt, seems inevitable. It's my own fault, though. I should have taken a hitter instead of chancing him. He's not even throwing to hitters now (4 straight days of tossing) and he's definitely not ready for opening day.

So, that's round 2...I think Wickman was round 12, that hurts pretty bad as well, but not as bad. He's out for half the year so I dropped him for Orber Moreno. He was supposed to be the Royals closer a few years back but had a lot of injury and control issues. He's pitched well in the spring and Looper hasn't...rotowire (and the NY Post) are saying he's got a shot, albeit a long one, to close if Looper continues to struggle. I think it's highly unlikely the Mets will bench Looper in favor of him, but his 10IP w/ no ER and only one walk looked good enough for me to grab him for Wickman. Not much risk, could be rewarded. We'll see.
 
3Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 11:01 		B Kim will miss the first couple of weeks of the season.
 
4smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 11:04 		(crossing my fingers) -- there are signs that my UU (Ugueth Urbina) gamble turns out OK and it would be sweet to get 30+ saves from the 14th round pick. Well, maybe he won't get THAT many saves in DET, but these saves will count more than saves for a Japanese team ... (continuing to cross my fingers)
 
5Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 11:32 		Although my pitching is suspect, I'm really not too worried about it yet. I generally go weak in pitching in my drafts, but will end up doing ok by the end of the year. I didn't mean to go as weak as I did, but my players kept getting snatched and the alternatives weren't as strong as another hitter. There always seems to be more surprises in pitching than there is hitting.
 
6Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 11:52 		smartone, yeah, it looks like my Rodney project is going to fail before the season starts. Why couldn't Ugie have just signed with Cleveland!?!? ;-)
 
7Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 12:33 		It wouldn't surprise me to see Ugi (Ugu?) dealt to a contender in mid-season. Rodney may not be done yet!
 
8Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 12:37 		Guru, true. Let me make it clear that I'm not going to waive Rodney just yet. I was just trying to say that he's not starting off on a good foot.
 
9KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 13:40 		So far, so good. I've got Payton, Villareal, and Bradford nursing some minor injuries, but so far, I haven't been hit with a major injury.

In fact, I've already had an injury help my team. As a result of MacDougal not being able to start the season, Leskanic will start the year as the closer for KAN. I'm hoping he can do a good enough job that they won't even consider MacDougal when he's healthy again.

 
10darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 14:03 		Well, it looks like my hope of Reitsma getting some save opportunities are dashed with the trade to Atl. Not sure how much value he has now as his ratios aren't that good and now he has 0 chance of a save. Goody.
 
11Species
      ID: 182482518
      Fri, Mar 26, 2004, 23:59 		Sitting on Trot Nixon out for April....as is Jon Lieber, although of course Lieber I knew about going in. These short benches make it challenging!
 
12beastiemiked
      ID: 262411016
      Sat, Mar 27, 2004, 12:29 		I would officially like to wish everyone luck on finishing 2nd.
 
13Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Sat, Mar 27, 2004, 12:52 		hahahahah....and I would like to officially wish you a LOT of luck with that outfield that would make E.R. look like a Hawaiian vacation, bmd!
 
14Toral
      Sustainer
      ID: 2111201313
      Sun, Mar 28, 2004, 20:59 		Hello, folks.

For the benefit of those in qualifying leagues, I wish to ask what the current state is of your rules for rejecting trades (so that we may emulate them, if they seem fit).

I followed your discussion in the beginning on this, but that was many threads ago.

I believe that you are set for commissioner option, but would like to ask:

1) what is the vote required to veto a trade?

2) is there a formal standard as to when a manager should vote to veto a trade (e.g., "when it is so unbalanced that no reasonable manager could have made it" or whatever). That is, I assume that the desire is that managers should not vote against a trade only because the trade would hurt them, but is anything but peer pressure being used to encourage this standard?;

3) does the RIBC Commissioner retain a "best interests of the game" option to reject trades aside from league votes?

Thanx for your help.

Toral
 
15Guru
      ID: 332532822
      Sun, Mar 28, 2004, 23:53 		I selected "League Votes", but I don't believe I ever had an opportunity to specify how many votes were required.

Frankly, I doubt if it will ever become an issue.

I can't imagine that I (as Commissioner) would ever reject a trade that survived a league vote. I don't even know if I have that capability.

And we did not ever set a standard.
 
16Toral
      Sustainer
      ID: 2111201313
      Mon, Mar 29, 2004, 00:26 		Guru:

I was thinking of your post 88 and following here. To be sure, I did not follow up on the discussion in later threads.

You should know that in a regular Yahoo! league, any 4 managers may vote anonymously to veto a trade. From Yahoo! help:
In a Public League, an objection of four or more managers within two days will veto the trade. In a Custom League, either the league managers or the commissioner has veto power for the length of time chosen during configuration.

I think that this Yahoo! statement means the 4-manager rule also applies to the "League Votes" option under Custom leagues, but I am not 100% sure.

I am sure there will be no such problems in your league -- and almost as sure in RQL (#1). But I would never leave that option on in any league (speaking only for myself), because it is just asking for trouble. When it is better to set the rules in advance.

Don't forget -- bluehen is in your league ;)

Many thanx for your comments. I will go by the majority-vote standard you originally suggested for the moment, and canvass my league managers on the issue.

Toral

 
17blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 05:25 		For one brief shining moment, I'd like everyone to know that

I am leading the RIBC league
 
18blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 05:30 		Not anymore. Damn Moose.
 
19smartone
      ID: 45262710
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 06:43 		YOKEL, it's only 1 hour into the season and you are already LEADING?!?
 
20Baldwin
      ID: 2211132920
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 07:14 		One thing that would be fun is having links posted so anyone including non-managers who wanted to could quickly see the leader board for each RIBC/RQL league.
 
21Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 07:58 		Hah! smartone. I don't see me repeating my hoops performance- I was just thinking last night as I looked at my lead widen further, that it was more or less a fluke as I'm middle of the pack in my other leagues.

Back to baseball - I didn't expect the Mussina implosion, but I'll take the hitting numbers. Glad I didn't forget to slip Tino into the lineup last night...
 
22darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 08:11 		Looks like I was too hasty in dropping Reitsma. Good pickup, Tosh. After I read the ESPN article about Smoltz I went to see about picking him back up, but you already beat me to it. Nothing is gonna be easy in this league!
 
23smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 10:02 		Yokel, you have to invite me to every Roto league you want to win ;-)
 
24Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 11:49 		I am certainly surprised that Reitsma made it to me with only my #13 waiver priority.
 
25StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 16:19 		Just out of curiosity, how many points (out of the 160 possible) does everyone think it will take to win the league?

In our G20 team league last year we had a tie with 2 players each getting 166/200 points or 83%. That would translate to about 133 points in RIBC. Sound about right?
 
26Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 16:26 		I would say that that is a fairly accurate estimate. You will probably need to average 13 points per category to have a shot at the title. This may explain why we didn't have any punters as you would need to average close to 14.5 if you punted a single category.
 
27KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 16:45 		With the quality of the teams involved, I don't think there will be a manager who will get that far ahead. I'm thinking 120 could win it and 125 would be a comfortable total, IMHO.

In my draft projections, nobody made it to 120.

 
28Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 16:56 		And who said I was punting saves? I've got Matt Herges and Billy Koch! ;-) It's time for Nen to go see Dr. Andrews again.

(with apologies to the Nen drafter...I'm not one to celebrate the demise of another team's player)
 
29Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 18:10 		I've been meaning to throw this one on the table since the draft......

During the draft I questioned Guru's strategy of getting premium middle relievers in the rounds that he did - the idea being twofold:

1 - As Guru realized, last year's best can flop this year - i.e. Rhodes and Remlinger on our PROFL team.

2 - How much relative value was gained by taking those relievers when he did? Or, could he have received nearly the same value later in the draft?

For kicks, I compared 4 of his relievers with 4 of my relievers that were taken in later rounds:

2003 stats:

Name Round IP BB H K ER ERA WHIP
Soriano Rafael 15 53 12 30 68 9 1.53 0.79
Marte Damaso 12 79.66 34 50 87 14 1.58 1.05
Mota Guillermo 18 105 26 78 99 23 1.97 0.99
Valverde Jose 14 50.33 26 24 71 12 2.15 0.99
Avg/totals 14.75 287.99 98 182 325 58 1.81 0.97

So, for an average of a 15th round pick, 2003 numbers grant him a nifty 1.81 ERA and a 0.97 WHIP from these 4 relievers. He also averages 1.12 strikeouts per 9 innings.

My 4 relievers:

Name Round IP BB H K ER ERA WHIP
Ayala Luis 17 71 13 65 46 23 2.92 1.10
Mateo Julio 22 85.66 13 69 71 30 3.15 0.96
Herges Matt 18 79 29 68 68 23 2.62 1.23
Quantrill Paul 25 77.33 15 61 44 15 1.75 0.98
Avg/totals 20.5 312.99 70 263 229 91 2.62 1.06

Mine average a 20th/21st round pick granting me a 2.62 ERA and 1.06 WHIP last year. One thing I missed when I made that comment during the draft was to take K's/9 into account, as my ensemble only averages 0.73 K/9.

For further kicks, consider Rotowire's projections:

Guru:
Name Round IP W SV ERA WHIP K
Soriano Rafael 15 98 8 1 2.66 1.082 99
Marte Damaso 12 75 5 10 2.4 1.04 83
Mota Guillermo 18 95 5 0 2.37 1.032 87
Valverde Jose 14 66 5 15 3 1.212 78
Avg/totals 14.75 334 23 26 2.6075 1.0915 347

Moi:
Round
Ayala Luis 17 71 9 12 3.3 1.183 50
Mateo Julio 22 79 4 1 2.85 0.937 66
Herges Matt 18 80 4 2 3.15 1.263 67
Quantrill Paul 25 57 3 3 3.32 1.228 47
Avg/totals 20.5 287 20 18 3.155 1.15275 230

NOTE: in the projections I merely averaged the projections of each players ratio categories, as I was too lazy to look up the actual BB, H and ER in the projections.

So the question/point is this: Was a projected 0.50 in ERA and .006 in WHIP, along with superior strikeouts, worth picking these 4 players an average of 5-6 rounds earlier? Will getting these players make up for Guru's lack of getting a pair of middle infielders that don't kill his hitting?

I don't know the answer......just throwing it out for fun and discussion. Admittedly, I totally blew it by not looking at K/9 - I foolishly just figured I would concentrate on the K's of my starters, figuring they would get the bulk of my K's. But if we all pitch the same number of innings, it's all K/9, and I blew that completely when I valued middle relief.

Oh, and of course the opportunity for saves is not taken into consideration in this analysis. Marte could very well end up with 15 saves, Valverde was excellent Mantei insurance, and Soriano has closer stuff and could even turn out to be a starter at some point this season. Value can be measured differently, and I understand that aspect too.
 
30Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Mar 30, 2004, 20:38 		Species raises some valid points, and it is certainly possible that I went for "premier" setup men too early.

However, I wanted some specific setup men - particularly those with better than average potential to become closers, and those with high K/IP ratios. I also wanted to get relievers that I thought would be more likely to post their projected numbers, so I looked for guys with a track record, or a good BA against, or some other reason to suggest that they would be able to continue good numbers.

Admittedly, we thought Rhodes was one of those guys last year, and his disappointment was on my mind in this year's draft.

Would I have been better off to take a middle infielder in round 15 rather than a middle reliever? I'm sure there were worthy middle infielders available at that point. My concern was that I wasn't at all convinced I'd find the right guy. I remember looking at the list of available candidates and thinking that anyone that I took could easily be worst of the bunch. I decided that the prognosis for a 24th round middle infielder was much worse than a 15th round MI. Will Spivey be much better than a late round second baseman? Will the gap be greater than the difference between Rafael Soriano and a 24th round reliever? Maybe yes. Maybe no.

And I'd have definitely been reaching way down my list to pick up middle infielders at that point. Instead, the relievers that I was taking were ranked at the top of my list of available players. Why were they at the top? Not only because of good ratios and some save potential, but also because of a lot of strikeouts per IP.

Clearly, if my relievers disappoint, then my strategy won't work out very well. But if Marte and Valverde turn out to be closers, Soriano develops into a closer or a solid starter, then I may even have some ability to trade for some exra hitting if needed.
 
31blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 06:53 		I think we've all hit on the most important point a lot, but I'll just reiterate. It's too difficult to project the stats for middle relievers that I really think the strategy could seriously struggle. Even guys like Marte and Soriano, who seem like locks for success in the middle if not as closers, could be pretty bad. And worse, those guys don't always get injured when they're ineffective. If Pedro gets hurt, you just replace him, but if you ride Rhodes all year and he sucks, you're not replacing him.

Plus, you're not getting enough innings, and you'll be putting Nate Cornejo out there while I'm playing my Oliver Perez or Brian Lawrence. That's a pretty big difference.
 
32Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 13:13 		You can say that about anyone though. All you have to go on is the historical data, your gut feeling about that and his potential this year based on numerous factors and go from there. Who knew Green would stink so bad last year? Who knew Griffey would get hurt again last week (OK, so that was an easy one!).

Point is, the potential to get hurt is always there and we all realize that. IMM, unless the guy is more suspect to injury, we have to throw that out the window. Guru, got some of the best MRs. I think we need to sit back and take a look and see.

My biggest concern if I were Guru would be that he may be lacking in Ws and Saves and his hitting cats. He will likely get the WHIP/ERA/Ks that he wants. Then if he needs to trade, just how valuable will another manager deem that MR to be? Can he afford to simply throw one of them on the waiver wire, essentially trading for a stick or for some Ws? Probably not. But who knows? IN our 20 team league (G20 for short), Bradford, Mateo, Shuey, Mota, Donnelly, etc. Of course we only have 23 total players and 6 active pitchers, so this league is going to be a little different.

I had to drop my only bench pitcher and only MR today as Dreifort won't pitch much at all and never back to back. He's always had a high ERA and not a very good WHIP, but liked his Ks and hoped he'd get the starting nod later in the season. He's not doing very well so I picked up another MI since Hairston and Reyes are down. So, I'm one of the guys that is looking at a MR sometime down the road. Will I try and trade for a MI by himself? I doubt it but the 2nd or 3rd player of a deal...perhaps. The beauty is in the eye of the beholder and everyone values players differently. Perhaps if Guru gets a big enough lead in those cats, it won't hurt him one way or another to even drop one of those guys. But in the meantime, I, for one, think he did a great job in achieving his strategy and I agree that if you want a guy, don't be afraid to reach a little for them. Heck, he'd have had to reach for a MI so what's the difference?
 
33Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 13:28 		You think I'll be lacking in saves? I have 2 regular closers: Mantei (backed up by Valverde), and Guardado (maybe backed up by Soriano, although it's not certain that Soriano would close even if Eddie is shelved). Marte should also get some saves, even if Koch retains the regular job.

Based on that, I don't expect to be lacking in saves. There are a few teams with comparable potential, but not many.
 
34Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 14:01 		I guess I meant lacking in Ws and saves from your MRs. Talking trade value more than anything else should you feel the need to go that route. Your pitching is covered pretty well, but in order to get hitting stats should you need them, will MRs be enough to give up for what you need hitting-wise? Who knows, you might dominate to the point where you won't want to change anything.
 
35Da Bomb
      ID: 22411422
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 16:55 		Don't mean to "intrude", but I have another point to bring up about the MR strategy Guru used. How many of the four main MR Guru has, (Valverde, Soriano, Mota, Marte) did anyone even hear of in the 2002 season? I don't think I knew of any of them before last year. Which brings me to this: new MR come out of nowhere every single year, while many of the dominant ones fade. I agree there is a chance that all of those MR will repeat their dominance, but would anyone be surprised if one or two or even all of them don't? If you told me right now that Mota will have a 3.65 ERA and a 1.35 WHIP at the end of this year, I wouldn't be surprised in the least. (Note, those were Remlinger's numbers in '03). Those are decent numbers, but not good enough for a spot on a fantasy team. To go back to what I mentioned before, new MR make drastic impacts every year, and are very easy to pick up off FA once the season begins. To have one or two solid MR is okay, but to base your draft's entire success on four guys all coming off career years is not what I would do. 2004 will produce a new class of dominant MR; new Motas and Martes' and Donnelys' for everyone to get.
 
36Baldwin
      ID: 2211132920
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 17:07 		Da Bomb

No I am sorry but MR's as solid and predictable as those don't just roll out like on an assembly line on the WW. You can count on finding adequate but not that good. Yes I knew about all those pitchers last year but Mota and had Marte on pretty much all my teams. Had been trying to acquire Soriano in keeper leagues for years. Had Valverde in Swirve pretty much all year. Would have picked Soriano in the 14th round [RQL] this year if I hadn't been picking a 3rd closer to cover my Urbina gamble.
 
37Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 18:32 		I think there is a little truth in both post 35 and 36. Again using the PROFL experience from last year, we used hot MR's like Brad Lidge (who was GREAT, especially since K/9 was the strikeout category in that league) and Quantrill, Shuey, et al and got those guys off the waiver wire. So I think Da Bomb has a valid point, and I meant to include that in one of my factors in my post #29.

My contention in bringing up the topic was probably focused more on the concept of "relative value" (i.e. he didn't have to sacrifice THAT much in stats to get MR's later in the draft) versus debating the reliability of the relievers in question.

There should be little doubt that, assuming the projections are reasonably accurate, that the strategy itself is sound and will provide the benefits Guru expects in his pitching categories. Whether it was best for his team and all 10 categories is, IMO, the issue.
 
38Baldwin
      ID: 2211132920
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 18:52 		I just don't think Shuey and Quantril can be considered sure things in the way Marte can be. I know I would have felt nervous counting on them.
 
39R9
      Leader
      ID: 2624472
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 20:12 		I think that in a league this deep, the arguement that other top MR's will make themselves known this year is just as valid (but unimportant) as saying other top OF's will make themselves known this year. Top MR's have value in a league this deep. Alot of value. The difference between a Marte/Valverde/Soriano and a Quantrill/Shuey is noticeable. Just like the difference between different tier'd OF's.

So Guru's having top MR options while others don't has value. And yep, some MR's will come out of the woodwork to surprise, and some good MR's are bound to pull a Rhodes and stink it up. However, I don't see how thats any different then, say, a team who has top OF'ers. Some top OF'ers (well, hitters really) this year will pull a Konerko/Burrell/Dunn and leave you out to dry, and some OF'ers will come out of the woodwork to surprise. In this deep a league, a top MR corps probably can have the same effect on 3-4 catagories as a strong OF can. (I say 4 because in most cases top MR's can very quickly turn into closers, especially Guru's top 3.)
 
40Da Bomb
      ID: 22411422
      Wed, Mar 31, 2004, 20:48 		The difference between a Marte/Valverde/Soriano
and a Quantrill/Shuey is noticeable

That is almost exactly my point. Who were 3 very
good RP in 02 that were drafted high in 03? Hmm,
I'll go with Rhodes, Remlinger, Nelson. Now
compare those 3 to Quantrill and Shuey. Is there
much of a difference? (Discount Rhodes' value as a
closer, say he is just a MR again). Of course,
one or more will be a Dotel, a RP who is dominant
year after year. But I think, to compound with
Species' point, is that you'll find more stable
value in a position player. Which leads me to
R9's point on MR vs. position players:

I can almost guarantee you that top tier batters
are much more likely to be successful and live up
to expectations than top tier MR. Maybe, in a
cumulative manner, more top batters will
disappoint since there are more of them than MR,
but % wise, you're safer to go with a batter than
a MR IMO. I could be totally off here, but that
is from my experience.
 
41StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 10:17 		I went back and looked through the draft and to me the question really doesn't come down to position players at all, but rather what effect did it have on his pitching and will his pitching stats measure up? When Guru starting picking up the MR's cleary he did so not in favor of bats, but starting pitching. If anything, I think Guru could have waited another round to get Marte and taken another quality high K low era pitcher to go along with Halladay and Contreras. Milton would have been a great pick in my mind and then fill out the MR's starting the next round and maybe avoid taking both Pavano and Wakefield, who will help with K's, but could really blow the ERA and Whip.

One reason I like this strategy is the number of pitchers allowed. 8 of 9 pitcher slots can be relievers. You probably have 2 or 3 starters at most on any given day and lots of days when there are only 1 or no starts. This allows you to accumulate stats from your whole pitching staff daily, including every random save from non closers. If the rotation spots were limited to say 6, then having so many MR's would make less sense. I think the guys Guru picked are great ones and will keep him in the hunt for K's, and near the top in Saves. My biggest concern would be the tradeoff between Wakefield/Pavano getting shelled on any given day and the effect that will have on ERA/WHIP. Bottom line to me is with so many pitching slots the strategy has a great chance to succeed. The K's/9 is a very key part of this as is the potential to close lots of games for 2 of the guys. Not picking up a mediocre MI to me is not even an issue here. More of the effect of passing a SP at this point or maybe another CI or OF with good stats, but those are easier to get off waivers or trade for later, IMO.
 
42Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 10:39 		I really thought that the premiere middle relievers would be more in demand in this draft, for many of the reasons outlined above.
 
43Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 10:54 		Rules interpretation issue:
Smartone has asked whether unlisted players may still be "reserved", as was the case during the draft. He'd like to pre-claim an unlisted player now, release a current player, and have 1st priority when that player becomes available.

My attitude is that this situation was not specified prior to the season, and would essentially subvert the waiver process. At a minimum, anyone with a higher current waiver priority should have the ability to overtake his claim.

What do the rest of you think of this? I vote no. (In other words, I vote that, with the exception of the three unlisted drafted players, all other player claims must use the standard Yahoo waiver/availability process.)
 
44beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 10:57 		No way. There are a few guys that aren't listed that I wouldn't mind picking up. I think the standard waiver process is the only fair way to do it.
 
45KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:01 		Big no. That's exactly what the waiver process is for.
 
46Mattinglyinthehall
      Leader
      ID: 1629107
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:06 		Agree with posts 44 and 45.
 
47beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:10 		Milton would have been a great pick in my mind and then fill out the MR's starting the next round and maybe avoid taking both Pavano and Wakefield, who will help with K's, but could really blow the ERA and Whip.

Milton is all hype. He's only had 1 above average season in his 5 full seasons in the big leagues. His career ERA is worse than Pavano's and his career best ERA, 4.32, is worse than Wakefields career ERA, 4.24. Milton has more potential than Pavano and Wakefield but he was also drafted a lot higher(5 rounds ahead of Wakefield and 9 ahead of Pavano). I'd much rather have Marte, Pavano, and Wakefield over Milton and 2 decent MR's. I actually think Guru's pitching is going to dominate and around midseason he's going to have to trade a closer or two to get some hitting.
 
48smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:21 		1) accepting 43-46 -- makes sense!

2) where can I find updates about the players that are added to Yahoo?
 
49blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:28 		I finally cut bait on Weeks. I'd been debating doing it for a while, but I wasn't sure who to pick up. Then I thought more and more about Lackey. His k-rate went up by 1 whole strikeout in 2003, and if he can increase it by that much more, he'll be valuable. He's only 25, and with a powerful lineup behind him, he should have a decent record. With Prior out, I really needed a starting pitcher, and Lackey was clearly the best on the wire.
 
50StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:34 		bmd, I was just saying that I thought Guru could have gotten the same MR's and still taken a better SP in round 11 is all. Milton was someone I think will have a breakout year, but it certainly didn't have to be him. I picked up Milton in G20 at the end of last year and was rewarded nicely. I also had Wakefield as a SP and when his knuckler isn't knuckling...then watch out. I soon abandoned my idea of low era/whip and chased wins/k's instead. A problem with a having a lot of relief pitchers and targeting ERA/Whip is that you have fewer innings and so a poor outing carries more negative impact. You need to really stick to your guns and not panic. BTW, I have Pavano in the RQL, so I hope he has a great year :)
 
51StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 11:35 		oops, I meant I have Pavano in G20!
 
52darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 12:15 		I should know this, but don't....how many starts will someone need before they get that position eligibility?
 
53Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 12:33 		Milton is all hype? Well, so is JD Drew. Walker is a bum. Brett Myers hasn't done squat in the majors - at least Milton's been to an All-Star game! Durham's a bum, Klesko's going to a Pac-Bell like left-handing hitters nightmare....

........AND your mother wears combat boots!

(tongue planted firmly in cheek for all of the above -- except the mother crack)
 
54StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 12:33 		Of course strategies don't always work the way you hope either.

The Los Angeles Dodgers placed right-handed reliever Paul Shuey on the disabled list with a ruptured tendon in his right thumb.

According to team trainer Stan Johnson, Shuey could miss the next six weeks of action. He apparently suffered the injury while avoiding a throw.

 
55Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 12:39 		I don't agree with reserving any players. That's what the Waivers process is all about. In fact, in future years, if I'm still around, I'd feel more comfortable not even allowing players to be drafted that aren't in the database. This isn't a Keeper League so I didn't say anything before the season, but that could be a huge advantage.
 
56KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 13:47 		Ref, I was thinking just the opposite. IMHO, it's a huge risk to draft a player not in the database. I don't see how it's an advantage at all. You don't know when the player will be available and you also give up a roster spot until they're available. It's not like they can draft the guy and still have a full team.

It's especially bad in this league, with no limit on hitter games, if you've drafted an unlisted hitter. Those are games you can't make up because of that empty roster spot.

 
57Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 13:55 		I agree with Ref. This is what waivers are for. Not to mention all of the potential arguments that could arise from teams 'reserving' players, especially prior to roster expansions.

That being said, I am almost glad to have given up my #3 roster priority. I think Burks will definitely be worth it for a couple of months of batting 5th for the BoSox and now I don't have to be shy about putting in a claim for a player.
 
58beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 14:01 		How is drafting players not in the database a huge advantage? If everyone can do it I have no idea how it would be considered a huge advantage. Especially with our limited bench.
 
59Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 14:04 		I know I'm echoing the majority here, but I'll go ahead and throw my 2 cents in. I am totally against being allowed to claim players that aren't in the database. That's what a waiver system is in place for.
 
60KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 14:17 		Two distinct things being said:

1. Ability to claim players POST-DRAFT who aren't listed.

2. Ability to DRAFT players who aren't listed. (This would be for future drafts)

I'm against #1 because if you wanted a player who wasn't listed, you should have drafted him. Which brings me to being in favor of #2 because everyone has the same opportunity to claim any player. If you want someone and he's not listed, you better draft him.

With #1, there's a huge advantage of circumventing the waiver process. With #2, there's no advantage whatsoever because everyone has equal opportunity to draft every player.

 
61darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 14:22 		ditto 60

- not to harp, but i forsee my message being lost....does anyone know how many games to start to be position eligible?
 
62Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 14:39 		Also agree with post 60.

darkside - on the Yahoo Fantasy Baseball front page:

From the League Office Last Updated: February 20
• In order to gain eligibility at a new position, a player must play 15 games at that position during this season.
 
63darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 15:00 		Thanks, Species. Hmmm...guess I should look at that page. I just always click the link to the league. Sorry for being such an idiot.

It is good, though, that they only require play at that position, as opposed to starts (I wish TSN would do that!).
 
64KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 15:02 		darkside, just get enough people to fuss about it and TSN will grant eligibility like they did with A-Rod. ;)
 
65darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 15:10 		Good call, KKB ;)

I thought that ARod hadn't always had 3B eligibility this season, but noticed it (and it swayed me to draft him) when I was putting my team together...I suppose that info is on the front page as well :)

His future position eligibility is why I picked up Cuddyer...Gardenhire has said he'll get time at 2B, SS and 3B (and maybe 1B) as well as his current OF. He's be killing the ball in ST (which I know means little), but they seem to have a desire to have him in the lineup. Hopefully they don't move him too much so that he gets about 10 starts at each infield position and is stuck as an OFer all season.
 
66Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 15:18 		darkside - I like Cuddyer and will look to secure him in my 16-team auction draft this Saturday. The sucky thing is that the Twins are so damn flaky with their prospects, save for Joe Mauer of course. The Twins need to cut bait with 2 or 3 more established guys this year to make room for the up-and-comers.

Your fear may indeed be realized -- that he is TOO versatile and doesn't get enough PT anywhere to get the eligibilty.
 
67darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 15:25 		Yeah, I know. I'm just hoping Rivas or Guzman(sorry to whoever has him) really stinks it up and they have no option but to play him more. Time will tell.

Is it baseball season yet, or what? I wanna play now!

 
68Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 20:05 		Can someone point out to me where Yahoo reports total IP for a team? How can we keep track of our pace?

I'm sure it's there somewhere, but I can't find it.
 
69Toral
      Sustainer
      ID: 2111201313
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 20:30 		Last year it was available by the View Current Info link at the bottom of the team page, and it still should be according to Yahoo!'s rules.

The maximum and actual games played information for your team is available by clicking on the View Current Info link in the table at the bottom of your team page.

The quote refers only to games played but if you look at the whole Yahoo! help page, it refers to IPs also where there is a minimum/maximum, and in fact that is the way it has worked in the past.

There's no such link there now.

I'm not sure whether the missing link is a screw-up, or whether the link will appear when the "real" season starts (I have noticed that Yahoo! does been acting funny during this 2-game early start period, and I speculate that they cobbled things together to get it up for the 2 early games.)

Toral
 
70Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 21:20 		I just posted the first RIBC standings/stats summary: http://rotoguru1.com/base/RIBC.html

I hope to be able to track total IP as well, but that will have to wait until the proper links are available at Yahoo.

One-day and one-week lookback links are included, but they won't lead anywhere until we've advanced enough days.

Let me know if anything looks screwed up (other than blue hen being ranked near the top).
 
71KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 21:27 		Guru, I assume you're pulling in the info from Yahoo. If so, could you add the position to the Add/Drop list? It's helpful to see at a glance what positions people are moving and adding.
 
72Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 01, 2004, 21:30 		Yeah, I'll do that.
 
73Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Fri, Apr 02, 2004, 16:17 		From ESPheN's "Questions of the Day":

Drafts are still going on; who is a sleeper hitter (or two) that most people probably aren't selecting?

Lipman: Adam Dunn is one of the most underrated players in baseball. He walks, hits for power and he even steals a few bases. He hasn't hit for average much, but if he ever hits .290 in a full season, you're looking at an MVP candidate. Dunn is still only 24, two years younger than Barry Bonds was in 1990, his first great season. With his eligibility at both first base and outfield, Dunn could be an unexpected cornerstone of your offense.

Thanks hen for the props for MY guy. How much are you willing to offer me in exchange?
 
74blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Sat, Apr 03, 2004, 01:52 		I'll give you Jesse Crain. I'll stand by my words. Dunn is indeed one of the most underrated players in baseball. I wanted him in this RIBC league but didn't get him. Oh well. I didn't get ARod either.
 
75Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 141211615
      Sat, Apr 03, 2004, 20:30 		Is anyone else having trouble putting players on the DL?
 
76KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Sat, Apr 03, 2004, 20:37 		Considering this league doesn't have a DL, I can see how that would be a problem. ;)
 
77smartone
      ID: 313039
      Sat, Apr 03, 2004, 22:10 		#70 Guru:

There is a link in the bottom-right of the "My Team" page called Maximum/Minimum Games Played which provides the number of IP. However, the data exists only for my team, and I could not access other team's IP.
 
78Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Apr 04, 2004, 00:23 		That's a change. I've used that many of times to strategize when I'm gaining on a person in certain cats. For instance, if they have a lot more innings or games played than I do, I'm going to pass them and most likely don't need to trade or find a FA that is better in that one cat. Not being able to see other's min/max's will throw a wrench into those plans.
 
79Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Apr 04, 2004, 13:33 		It looks like you can see other teams' IP totals if you know the URL:

http://baseball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/b1/81842/1/positioncaps

all you need to do is substitute the team number for the last digit (mine is team 1 in the example).

Hopefully I can get this info daily and include it on the standings summary page that I produce.
 
80Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Sun, Apr 04, 2004, 14:06 		Yes, I was able to capture cumulative IP info for all teams, and it is now on the standings summary.
 
81smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Mon, Apr 05, 2004, 14:11 		When I drafted Dmitri Young, his spring stats were OK, but he hit something like 1-20 in the later part of spring and had an overall AVG of .200 (11-55). I KNOW that Spring numbers don't indicate much and I also remeber that his stats at the beginning of last year were Tiger-like. Oh, welll, I guess that he'll spend some time on my bench.
 
82Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Apr 05, 2004, 16:56 		I considered benching Sidney Ponson for his opener against Pedro, but since Pedro had not been pitching well this spring, I decided to keep him active.

I also dropped Shuey and picked up B.J. Ryan a couple days ago, and he got an unexpected save.

So far, so good.

Then today, Halladay gets shelled by the Tigers. So much for the value of top draft picks. If Halladay is going to repeat last year, maybe I should bench him until May.
 
83Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 05, 2004, 17:46 		ROFL.....I'm not sure this is the type of situation I wanted Koch to be "tested" on early in the year. As I type this: 2 on (on 2 walks by Politte), 0 out in the 9th. At least it's a FOUR run game AND a save situation.

Close the door, Billy! Show 'em you're the man! lol
 
84Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 05, 2004, 18:06 		LMFAO!

Koch gives up a deep double to make the score 7-4. He strikes out the next guy, so there's 2 on, 1 out. Marte comes in and promptly gives up a game tying 3 run bomb! Berroa then gets a hit and Marte gives up a game winning, walk-off 2 run shot to Beltran! YEOWCH!

Koch: 1/3 IP, 1 H, 1 R, 1 K
Marte 0 IP, 3 H, 3 R

At least my guy's ERA and WHIP are under infinity! ;-)
 
85Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Apr 05, 2004, 18:10 		Marte provides a nice fit with Halladay today. My stud setup guy (and closer in waiting) with my stud starter.
 
86R9
      Leader
      ID: 2624472
      Mon, Apr 05, 2004, 20:23 		Guillen managed to destroy both Koch's and Marte's confidence in only one day! Took Manuel at least a month to do that with his closers. Nice to see progress in Chicago. ;)
 
87Baldwin
      ID: 20337320
      Tue, Apr 06, 2004, 12:49 		On the otherhand the Cubs stuck with Borowski despite walking the first two. Hopefully Ozzie was taking notes. I know Chicago sports radio won't let Ozzie forget that fiasco.
 
88Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Apr 06, 2004, 13:07 		I'm not sure it's worth such a horrible 2nd guess. He played a situational move, bringing in Marte to face Stairs (initially), which in and of itself is not a horrible thing. His quotes though about having the whole season be situational like that, IMO, is lunacy. Someone has to settle into the role.
 
89Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 00:17 		After a nice day yesterday, it's always great to follow it up with a complete disaster today.
 
90Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 00:44 		Could be worse Ref.......your best reliever could be hurt (Guardardo), and your next two could be Marte and Valverde! ;-)
 
91Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 01:13 		The Fernando Rodney experiment is over for me. He's now been diagnosed with a Grade 3 Elbow Sprain and is out indefinitely. Looking down towards the 2nd half of the season, even if Urbina is traded, there is no guarantee Rodney will be ready. And even if he is, the job won't be handed to him. So, I decided to take a flier on Rafael Betancourt(who? ;-) He looked good in his 1st appearance and Riske is no sure thing. We'll see......

On a different note, nice to see the Oakland bullpen hold onto lead and give Mulder the win. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for Cleveland's bullpen(Jimenez and Scott Stewart to be exact) as they blew a damn good effort by Sabathia yesterday. Also received an ugly save from Benitez today. I guess I should get used to that. ;-)
 
92blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 02:36 		It's a marathon, not a sprint.

-- He said as he hung onto the 12th spot...
 
93smartone
      ID: 313039
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 07:39 		My Dmitri Young broke his Fibula bone (if interested to learn more about the fibula, check the Injury Thread) - I guess that I will keep him on my roster, for now, since the Tigers became a world-series bound team... ;-)
 
94smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 12:02 		According to the rules, there is no minimum IP (thank you, Tom Gordon, for the 1-2-3 inning in Tokyo). Therefore, I can SECURE myself 35 RIBC pitching points (1+1+1+16+16), and trading my pitching-staff for hitters would give me 70+ hitting points assuming not too many significant injuries (oh, well, I already have a broken fibula on my roster). Therefore, with little efforts from now on, I'll probably finish the season with 105-115 RIBC points which will be sufficient for anywhere among the top 4 spots, SECURING MY PARTICIPATION IN NEXT SEASON'S RIBC.

BUT, I WANT TO ENJOY THE GAME AND TO KEEP IT'S SPIRIT... not sure if I'll start both my SP tonite (Washburn and Piniero go H2H after a 10-5 game yesterday), but I will continue to compete in all 10 categories.

so Guru, did I secure myself a spot in next year's RIBC? ;-)
 
95Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 12:25 		This latest post by smartone is the exact reason why I wanted a minimum IP requirement.
 
96StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 12:42 		Yes, you could assure yourself of 35pts, but even if you finish average (8th) in every pitching category, then you would have 40pts. Do you think you are an average manager?

You could trade for more hitting. Certainly Percival, Urbina, would bring something, but where do you play the new hitters and how much better are they than what you have? and how many points will they bring you? You might finish in the top half by punting 3 categories, but no way would you win.

So I say if you don't want to win and are only an average manager then by all means go for your "strategy"!
 
97beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 12:51 		Exactly. If you want to play to get 5th then by all means go for it.
 
98Mattinglyinthehall
      ID: 217351118
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 12:57 		You also are assuming that most league members will be happy to trade with you at market rates. If you're punting 3 categories and locking up two more, that means that the other 5 cats are each now worth much more to you than they were before. Knowing that, I wouldn't be willing to trade any Hitters to you at standard market rates for your players, and I suspect that others would approach dealings with you similarly.

 
99KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 13:24 		What MITH said in #98.

But what good is 4th place (or whatever you would get) if it just ensures you that you'll be around next year? Would you try for the same thing next year so you could just continue to be in the league but not have a real shot at ever winning it? If you're not in it to win it, why be in it at all?

 
100Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 13:39 		I'd have preferred a minimum IP as well, but Yahoo did not provide that option. I suppose we should have instituted a minimum anyways, to be administered separately if anyone failed to reach it.

I guess I should add one implicit caveat to the repeat invitation rule. If you finish in the top half of the league, you will automatically be invited to return next year as long as your conduct during the season was not detrimental to the best interests of the league.

Normally, I would expect that the only breach would be if someone repeatly made outrageously unbalanced trade offers, or if two managers were deemed to be engaging in collusive behavior, or if someone created havoc in the forum through inappropriate behavior. Obviously, I would not expect this to apply to any of you.

If smartone were to use this "Tom Gordon strategy", would that be deemed to be contrary to the best interests of the league? I'm not sure. I think I'd defer to a survey of the other managers before making that call. Obviously, as the season emerges, punting one or more categories in order to improve team standing is a justifiable - even laudable - approach. But to apply that type of strategy from opening day simply to assure a finish in the top half strikes me as a bit weasely.

As a simple alternative, we could amend the league rules to apply a minimum innings pitched requirement. I would not be in favor of a lofty minimum, as that would be very unfair to those who drafted with the lack of a minimum in mind. However, something greater than 1 IP (perhaps 500 IP) would at least restore some integrity to the pitching category. If we could get a supermajority to agree to this, I'd consider it.

How about the hitting side? Suppose someone had started the year with a phenenomenal OPB and SLG. Should that person be allowed to trade away his hitting in order to attempt to load up on pitching, effectively punting 3 hitting categories? Or should there be a games played limit on the hitting side?

Interesting issues...
 
101Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 14:00 		While I may not agree with smartone's strategy, I cannot advocate implementing a change in the rules post-draft. If he truly goes through with it, he's made his bed and sealed his fate. As others have said, if you're playing like that, you're going to get what's coming to you -- and that's a 4th-5th place finish (at best) and a group of leaguemates that could choose not to trade with you or give you fair value.

That being said, I have interest in Percival! ;-)
 
102smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 14:02 		I am sure that you have all read the second paragraph of my post... We are all here to HAVE FUN (this is not one of these "experts leagues" with lots of "real" $$$ on the table), and as I have stated clearly, I am going to fight to try and win this game using all "means"/categories. Moreover, I oppose any unfair moves regardless of the rules - the moral is more important.

As can be evident in the current Farn's Hoops Qualifying League - I keep very high morals (check with Yokel and PeterN) and I am sure that every other Gurupie would do the same.

All I wanted was to provoke some discussion on the Board... ;-)

 
103smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 14:09 		Species, now you ask me to punt a category??? ;-)
 
104Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 14:12 		I don't think smartone was seriously conidering punting three categories, just pointing out the possibility due to his current standings. We all agree it would be nearly impossible to punt 3 categories and win the league. However, it could guarantee a high finish, but if you aren't in it to win it, why bother? It is also interesting to note that in smartone's projected standing he had himself winning the league while scoring ones in the K and W categories (He projected a 12 for the saves). I wouldn't recommend punting a single category much less two and I wouldn't want to put myself out of contention for winning for the sake of a high finish.
 
105Caper
      Donor
      ID: 1535108
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 14:37 		I didn't think smartone was really advocating tanking. I do think he raised some interesting points that have generated some thought and discussion. I really believe the players in this league would be too competitive to use a strategy like this, but there are folks in other leagues who would. I think it is an interesting analysis of the rules and possible implications.
 
106StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 14:42 		Personally I was just instigating smartone a bit. Never thought he was serious, but thought the consequences of such a strategy were worth discussing.
 
107KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 15:31 		I agree with Species. It wouldn't be a strategy I would use simply because it wouldn't be the way I would want to play. However, if someone else wanted to use it, more power to them. But I would still question the reasoning for someone to want to be in a league only to focus on half of a team, even if money were on the line.
 
108Ref
      ID: 44348611
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 16:46 		It's not nec. to add any minimums. Sometimes, even after post draft, something may come up that needs addressed, but this one doesn't. If someone were to do that strategy, that's fine, but I wouldn't play with that manager again. Now I've played with a lot of managers that don't have very good teams and they end up punting a cat (esp. saves) and I don't have a problem with that one bit. All the managers in this league have enough high standards in themselves to not need any mins. placed on them. I think it was a hypothetical, and interesting topics to talk about, but that's all it was, a hypothetical.
 
109Ref
      ID: 44348611
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 16:52 		I screwed up big time and set my roster for today but it was on tomorrow's date. Now I have an injured player in and two guys I wanted to start have their games already going. Oh yeah, and Guiel has already homered.
 
110blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 17:39 		I think the smartone strategy is JUST and FAIR. If he thinks that will be enough to satisfy, then go for it. I also agree with Species about no in-season rule changes. If we didn't want smartone to do it, then we should have made a rule in the beginning.
 
111Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 18:12 		Koch with the save! Koch with the save! Way to show the faith, Ozzie! Woooo hooooo!
 
112KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 18:14 		Cordero with the save! Cordero with the save!

Too bad it came at the expense of my A's... :(

 
113Tosh
      Sustainer
      ID: 57721710
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 18:55 		I can certainly see flaws in the strategy proposed by smartone (I agree he would never finish higher than 4th or 5th), but I believe there are countless strategies that one can use to win a league. I hate to see rules imposed that restrict any possible strategy. But in-season rule changes are worse.
 
114smartone
      ID: 313039
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 19:03 		the "0.00 ERA 0.00 WHIP" strategy, aka "Tom Gordon Strategy" is doomed... oh, well, at least I recorded my first K
 
115BZ
      ID: 59171020
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 19:34 		Not in the league but Smartone could just pitch his best
closers, trade the rest of his pitching for hitting, and only
punt 2 categories, no? He'll still probably win ERA and
WHIP.
 
116R9
      Leader
      ID: 2624472
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 20:50 		I think that could be a legit strategy. Focus entirely on hitters the first 5-6 rounds, pause for a top closer or two, then finish the entire lineup. Then maybe fill it in with some top setup men to help ERA/WHIP, and as potential closers later. Hitting would have to be near-perfect to have any chance, but it COULD work.
 
117Toral
      Sustainer
      ID: 2111201313
      Wed, Apr 07, 2004, 20:59 		R9 That's Shandler's LIMA strategy (as applied to draft leagues) in a nutshell I believe, and I think it was first formulated in leagues with no minimum IP. It was designed for 4x4 leagues with no Ks, where it would be even more deadly.
 
118smartone @work
      Donor
      ID: 29452720
      Thu, Apr 08, 2004, 13:43 		oh, well, Pineiro punted my other pitching categories with a "brilliant" outing... back to square 1... :-(
 
119Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 08, 2004, 14:34 		I just added a new column of stats to the summary page. I've included total ABs for each team.

I did this for several reasons.
1. It might be interesting to see which teams are general the most ABs, and whether that is translating into better hitting stats.

2. I'm hoping to eventually develop a routine that will calculate stats (and probably rankings) over a range of dates. This would allow a manager to see how he was doing lately, and to better assess which categories might be trending up or down relative to the field. To do this, I need to know the basis for the ratio categories during the period. For the pitching averages, I'm tracking total IP, which is the basis for both pitching averages. For hitting, the basis for SLG is AB, which I'll now have. For OBP, the proper basis is PA (plate appearances), but AB should be a reasonable proxy.

It may take awhile to get these "splits" programmed, but I think I should have something later in the month.
 
120blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Sat, Apr 10, 2004, 21:52 		You guys are way too quiet. Just in case you missed it, I dropped John Burkett, which of course means that Jesse Crain is now available to be taken (when added). I maintain that it was a good pick, but it didn't work out.

I also maintain that John Lackey was a good move.
 
121KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Sat, Apr 10, 2004, 22:03 		It's hard to get too worked up over things, outside of injuries, this early in the season. I've been itching to make moves on a lot of my roto teams, but I have to keep reminding me that we're still not even a full week into the "real" season.

I'm a bit disappointed in Abreu, but by no means am I going to drop him. :)

 
122blue hen
      ID: 331038201
      Sun, Apr 11, 2004, 16:24 		I'll give you Alex Gonzalez...
 
123Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 00:07 		Any interest in this player of mine?

Qualifies at both MI positions. Looking for low ERA/WHIP pitcher with save opportunities.

H/AB R RBI SB OBP SLG
10/22 5 1 3 .500 .545
 
124Slackjawed Yokel
      Leader
      ID: 52347519
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 00:16 		Yeah, I was interested in him, but the waiver priority got me. I guess if you drop him, I'll be one spot closer.
 
125Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 11:02 		I'm off to a flying start. My three "stud" relievers (Marte, Soriano, Valverde) have combined for an ERA of 12.7 and a WHIP of 2.65. My top two starters (Halladay and Contreras) have ratios of 6.63 and 1.58, and no wins.

Bay, Broussard, and now Floyd are all injured.

My replacement for Mark Ellis is hitting .176. I had hoped to claim Womack, but when I checked on Thursday, he wasn't yet listed, and when I checked on Saturday, he had already been taken. Either my memory is faulty, or my spelling is bad, but I'm not sure why I missed him.

This team is mirroring my early TSN experience. I'm have 5 teams, and the highest ranked on is 18th in its division.

Oh well, it's always fun to come from behind.
 
126darkside
      Dude
      ID: 3590317
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 11:07 		I must say that I find solace in your pitching trials and tribulations, Guru. I thought I'd be set up nicely w/ pitching having taken my first 2 w/ my first 2 picks, but I haven't even gotten a win yet and my ERA is pretty bad.

On the other hand, the category I was most concerned about, OBP, is one of my best. It'll be more interesting once we've got enough points to keep from flip-flopping in the standings so much.
 
127Ref
      ID: 27318129
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 11:21 		With 9 pitchers going, everyone should hit 1350. I keep forgetting we have 9 slots that can be active.
 
128Peter N.
      Donor
      ID: 257161713
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 11:28 		With regard to starting pitching, I've had bullpens blow 3 wins away from my starting pitchers. It has happened to Sabathia twice and Mulder once. Talk about frustrating!!!!
 
129Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 11:46 		Guru - he was on waivers for at least 2 days, so I think you just blew it. I was very concerned you would claim him with your superior waiver priority.

Which reliever would you give me for him? Say what you want about his history, he is smoking hot and will kick the pants off of many MI's in play right now.

I was blessed with a great week offensively. Interesting that even with that great week, I'm still short in RBI, which is going to be a sore spot for me, I'm afriad. I can't believe the steals.....I may be able to trade Roberts earlier than I thought.
 
130Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 11:54 		I'd give you BJ Ryan for him. Other than that, I think I'll just ride it out for awhile.
 
131Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 12:10 		Amazingly my grip on first place has held for a week. Wait until I get Nomar back, but by the time he does, KB may be on the DL. I'm a little irritated with myself for wasting my waiver claim on Burks, who is now back on waivers and I would love to have Womack subbing for Nomar right now. However, given my current standings I can't complain too much. Kind of like seeing the Jays bringing in Ligtenberg for the save last night and then seeing him blow it. I am also holding Mauer through his DL stint, and hope that this doesn't come back to hurt me as well. Looking forward to seeing Harden and Jackson join the big clubs, Harden should be here soon, let's hope King Edwin isn't too far behind him.
 
132Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 12:38 		I tried to research Womack when he first came on waivers and discovered that he was on waivers w/o ever being released. This tells me that Yahoo didn't have him listed for whatever reason. Furthermore, I wasn't about to "waste" my waiver position on a player that had one great game but is a perennial underachiever. My MIs are hurt and I couldn't drop AGonz fast enough. Actually Wilson has done better than Womack anyhow. Reyes should be back sometime soon and Hairston will be back in the next 3 weeks or so. Until then I just have to ride this out. I need pitching but really have no one to give up to get anyone new just yet.
 
133Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 12:41 		Womack went through waivers, he just wasn't added to the player database until late. I put in a claim for him and received the "another manager with a higher priority" e-mail when he cleared waivers and was placed on Species' team.
 
134beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 12:48 		Yeah, he was on waivers. Thought for sure he wouldn't make it as far as Species but I guess a couple of people missed him.

Wilson vs Womack - I'd take Womack's steals, runs, and OBP over Wilson's SLG% and RBI's.
 
135KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 13:00 		I didn't miss him. I just didn't want him. I don't have faith in his long-term viability. At least not enough to drop someone for him.
 
136Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 13:09 		Wilson cost me nothing. Womack would have cost me my waiver spot. I can dump wilson if he doesn't pan out, but thus far is red-hot and since I picked him up he's been moved to the 2nd spot in the lineup. If there is an upside, I'd have to think it would be Wilson who has surprised everyone. Well I guess the same can be said for Womack, but take that one big game out and he doesn't jump out me.
 
137Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 13:26 		I hold no delusions of grandure about Womack. But at the top of a deadly Cardinals lineup with a manager who is not afraid to turn him loose on the basepaths, I am more than happy to sub him in and ride it while it's hot.

That being said, he is quite available to the highest bidder.
 
138KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 14:08 		That same manager will pull him out of the lineup in a flash as soon as he stops producing. He has viable alternatives.

That said, enjoy him while he lasts. :)

 
139KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 14:27 		Abreu is FINALLY on the board!!! WooHoo!

Ugh!

 
140beastiemiked
      ID: 2601988
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 14:42 		Lipman: Womack is clearly one of the premier basestealers of the last few years. Fairly recently, he was a regular shortstop with the ability to steal a lot of bases. That's a high draft pick in any league. However, Womack has shown little ability to hit for the last few years, and he should easily hit himself out of the lineup before too long. I hope someone keeps track of how many more times Womack reaches base three times in a game this season, and I can't think of too many players I'd drop to pick him up.

Through his first 6 games he's been on base 3,1,3,4,1,2. So I guess after opening day he's gotten on base at least 3 times in 2 out of 5 games. Lipman, did you put a claim on him?
 
141Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 15:24 		And obviously the "can't think of too many players I'd drop" comment wasn't tailored to a 16-team league that uses 3 middle infielders.

I've only got 1 trade offer. Keep 'em coming! ;-)
 
142Bandos
      ID: 422571916
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 16:54 		Some one in this league had a great write up of Jesse Crain, who I drafted late in the RQL#3. He did not make the club. Any idea why or when he might be added. I am currently saving a roster spot for him and haven't found any info about a possible call-up. With some players on the DL, that spot could be valuable. Any assisstance will be greatly appreciated.

Bandos
 
143Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 18:00 		I read that Crain wouldn't be added before the 2nd half of the year at the absolute earliest. Don't know if anything has changed since then or not.
 
144Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 18:11 		BlueHen drafted him and subsequently dropped him (120).
 
145Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 18:28 		RE:134, bmd, take a look at what Wilson has done since Womack's big day and compare the two. Make sure you include today's games as well. I'm not saying who is better, just that I took Wilson because he was free and Womack would have cost me a waiver claim. Since that time, I have been comparing the two and Wilson has been the better performer.
 
146Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 19:27 		lol.......nothing like touting your guy on the day of a 3-hit, 1 sb, 1 double game.

Like KKB said about Womack, Ref......enjoy it while it lasts, 'cuz it ain't gonna last!
 
147beastiemiked
      ID: 262411016
      Mon, Apr 12, 2004, 20:31 		Wilson has been amazing so far this season, there's no doubt about that. He was a great FA pickup. However, looking at career numbers, Womack is much more likely to steal 30 bases than the chances of Wilson continuing to help you in OBP and SLG%. Speaking of that, Womack just drew a walk and stole 2nd.
 
148Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 01:00 		I agree with both of you!!! Sure has been better than my draft pick of the Cubs version of AGonz though!!!

Species I was actually "touting" him before his game today. ;)
 
149blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 10:54 		Amazing. During the draft I thought you guys were such smart managers. But now you're talking about two days worth of stats and pretending they represent anything at all. Wilson will help you in SLG and OBP? Lay off the crack?

Womack can indeed help you in steals, provided he plays. He doesn't even need to get on base much, as a .280 OBP would still get you some steals. In retrospect, he's better than Rickie Weeks or Alex Gonzalez (either), but I didn't put in a claim - too many teams, too much work, blah blah excuses blah.
 
150Ref
      ID: 6336139
      Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 11:51 		bh: hello kettle, this is pot, you're black! I suggest you re-read the posts a little bit slower so you can actually comprehend what you're reading. Never said anything about helping me in slg and obp, but rather picked him up as a stopgap. But since that time, he has helped me in both of those cats and has even rewarded me with two more steals than Womack. Now yet another MI has been injured and Team Ref is reeling.

This is so early in the season that we are all going to be bouncing around awhile. With a 16 team league, you're going to find a nugget every once in awhile that surprises you and gets you all giddy. So it only lasts a short while. Big deal. What about the supposed studs that managers have been starting every day that have yet to do much? Yet they are continually placed blindly in the lineup, just knowing they will breakout soon? Well with the guys like Wilson, you keep in there until they fall off (or until your injured guys get back). ;)
 
151Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 12:57 		Obviously blue hen has never held a sales position is his miserable life.
 
152blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Tue, Apr 13, 2004, 19:12 		I'll sell you, fool!

Yeah Ref, I agree. I need Lasik. And more to the point, you are absolutely right about the small celebrations. I'll never forget the time Billy Wagner got hurt and I was fortunate enough to get Mike Jackson and his four saves that week (then none the rest of the season). Just like I was happy about getting Crain (until I dropped him) Wilson and Womack are good pickups. Not going to make or break the season, but will certainly make you feel good if they do well.

But remember, it's a marathon, not a sprint. I'm looking to acquire Jim Thome and Austin Kearns in every league I'm in. Well, except this one.
 
153StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 12:26 		Is there a place to see the standings for this league that is open to the public? I'd be curious to periodically check in to see how things are going.
 
154Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 12:46 		It is available on the rotoguru home/blurbs page.

Top right hand side...here is the direct link though:
RIBC Standings
 
155StLCards
      Leader
      ID: 31010716
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 12:58 		Thanks Trip. That page says it all and then some. Species already has 18 SB's. Wow! That doesn't seem possible. Not to mention a .401 obp. Of course, it is still April, as evidenced by catcher stats.

 
156Trip
      Donor
      ID: 13961611
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 13:19 		Make sure to tune in tomorrow to see me reclaim first. $*&% rainout pushed KB back a day or I wouldn't have lost it!
 
157 Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 13:43 		StL: Dave Roberts, Marcus Giles, Mike Cameron and Tony Womack, baby! I'm a stealing MACHINE! And no $hit about catchers, they're going nuts!

I'm thrilled to see Nen doing nothing but tossing and Koch throwing pretty darn well....I read he's hitting 97 lately. I may just sneak into a respectable, double-digit finish in saves afterall......with the only investments being 16th and 17th round picks.

Too bad saves is the ONLY bright spot in my pitching. Considering what an out-and-out disaster my rotation has been, I have to count my blessings, which include Grissom, Dunn and Cameron who've been insane.

slack - drop me an email....would like to talk trade......but shhhhhhh, it's a secret.
 
158Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 16:39 		And Species rejoices!! Matt Clement proves he's a pitcher and not a belly itcher with a nice 6 inning, sub-1.00 WHIP, 7 k, scoreless performance! Hoorah! Hoorah!

Given the poundings I've taken....it's about (bleeping) time.
 
159Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 17:07 		lmao! This is what I get for celebrating Clement and complimenting Koch:

Kansas City Inning Summary

-B. Koch relieved C. Politte
-A. Guiel walked
-M. Stairs hit for T. Graffanino
-M. Stairs grounded out to first
-A. Berroa singled to center, A. Guiel scored
-C. Beltran homered to deep center, A. Berroa scored
-M. Sweeney homered to deep left
 
160Species
      Leader
      ID: 7724916
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 17:39 		And to add insult to injury, Koch can't even finish the 9th inning.....and the White Sox come back to win off of Leskanic (mainly - at least KKB has to share some hurt) so Koch can't even vulture a cheap win. :(

Woe is me.

Guru - time for a new discussion thread perhaps?
 
161blue hen
      ID: 372102211
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 17:49 		I watched the whole thing. Quite exciting.

Koch really has nothing these days. Guru's Marte pickup is looking better and better.

I will compliment the Herges pick. I drafted him in the ESPN mock in 2002 when he was slated to start the season as the LA closer... until he was traded and lost his job to some other guy.
 
162KrazyKoalaBears
      Leader
      ID: 517553018
      Wed, Apr 14, 2004, 19:14 		Gotta love closers... or not.
 
163Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Apr 15, 2004, 10:11 		Time to advance to discussion thread #2.