Forum: base
Page 19673
Subject: Gurupie 20 2008 Discussion III

  Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 01:14
Previous Thread

Prospect Draft is over so it's time for a new thread.
 
1Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 01:17 		Make sure you check on all your prospects for salaries and to make sure they ahve been recorded properly in the rules.
 
2blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 12:21 		Welcome Lars Anderson. You are great.
 
3Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 12:25 		From the Prospect Draft thread, from Tosh:

Even though I had him listed first, I considered not taking Buster Posey (C, SF), since Geovany Soto seems like he wants to be a keeper for me next year. I rarely have a good catcher. Maybe I'll have two in a couple years.

Soto should certainly be a keeper but Posey is phenomenal.....one of the best college seasons in a LOOOOOOOOONG time from a premium position. Almost assured of starting for the sorry-ass Giants in 2010. Just a stud. He should hit .290+ easily in the majors with 20 HR power. Russell Martin is a pretty good comp - both former SS' who moved to catcher. Very athletic.
 
4Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 13:44 		I didn't know that Martin ever played SS, but I do know that the Dodgers converted him from 3B to C in the minors.
 
5Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 16:43 		Ah.....I could have misheard when watching the draft. I know Posey played SS for sure, but I could very well have misheard on Martin. Still, the comparison is appropriate. Great pick by the Giants who have gotten very lucky over the past few years with the top of their draft.
 
6blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 17:38 		Most players were shortstops previously.
 
7Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 17:53 		Yep, typically the most athletic player is your SS.
 
8StLCards
      ID: 372301819
      Wed, Jul 16, 2008, 23:28 		Tarpy - please send me your address
thanks
 
9Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Jul 19, 2008, 16:52 		Reds placed RHP Jared Burton on the 15-day disabled list with a strained right lat muscle.

Burton suffered the injury on July 6 and sat out several games leading up to the All-Star break. He claimed on Thursday that he was fully recovered, but apparently felt some discomfort while warming up in the bullpen during Friday's game. He should be able to return in early August.
 
10beastiemiked
      ID: 06411813
      Sun, Jul 20, 2008, 18:41 		I'd like to call up Ian Stewart. I've called him up once before and sent him down but if I'm understanding the rules correctly, if he isn't over the ab threshold at the end of the season he can be sent down again. Then once I call him up again he's no longer a prospect. Right?
 
11beastiemiked
      ID: 06411813
      Sun, Jul 20, 2008, 18:44 		Drop Thornton.
 
12Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 00:19 		Stewart called up for his 2nd time. As long as he doesn't hit the threshold, you can send him down one more time. He will automatically be sent down at the end of the year if he doesn't hit the threshold.
 
13Great One
      ID: 10658208
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 17:47 		Any contenders looking for an OF, Griffey Jr can be had for a very small pick swap.
 
14Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 18:02 		I've had JD Drew and Jason Giambi on the block as well.
 
15Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 21, 2008, 18:52 		There's finally been a Neftali Soto sighting:

Ben (Centerville, OH): Has Reds Low A prospect Neftali Soto hitting .400 through his first week in the pitcher friendly midwest league at 19 years of age caught the eye of the good folks at BA? What kind of player does Soto project as?

Jim Callis: A pretty good one. You can make a case that he's the best prospect in the system, though I went with Todd Frazier and Yonder Alonso will claim that distinction once he signs.
 
16blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Tue, Jul 22, 2008, 17:29 		Luis Ayala is available for a mid-round pick.
 
17Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jul 22, 2008, 17:41 		lol!!!
 
18Perm Dude
      ID: 406592221
      Wed, Jul 23, 2008, 00:24 		Vicente "Neftali" Padilla is available for the same...
 
19Great One
      ID: 56438112
      Wed, Jul 23, 2008, 11:07 		Looks like Hanrahan is gonna be closing... so thats good.
I would add him to a deal with Alex Gordon (and/or with high draft picks - Weeks, Wang, Lind, Griffey, Dukes etc) to get me a comprable keeper level 1B who is solidly under 30 years old.

Gonna have a problem with Gordon losing 1B eligibility next year... surely there are teams out there with multiple 1B clogging up there UT spot. Lets talk.
 
20Peter N.
      ID: 17221191
      Wed, Jul 23, 2008, 20:07 		It's no wonder why my ERA sucks. I have guys like Guardado get lit up and then I forget to start my aces, Sabathia and Beckett. I dodged a bullet with Beckett against ANA. I'm not feeling so good about missing Sabathia's start tonight. %#@&!!!
 
21blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Thu, Jul 24, 2008, 10:36 		Looking to move some of my hitting, if you're in contention and need some. Guys like Jacobs, Theriot, Cody Ross, Church. If you're in contention, I'd offer up the lot of them with some of the closer fodder for one solid keeper.
 
22blue hen
      Leader
      ID: 710321114
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 17:49 		Fernando Rodney is available for a mid-round pick.

Oh wait, I didn't get him. Amazingly, Rodney was still available early this morning in RIBC and G20.
 
23Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Sun, Jul 27, 2008, 18:21 		Oh yeah. I missed my cue.

Fernando Rodney is available for a mid-round pick.
 
24Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 28, 2008, 00:25 		What's funny is that i've been looking at Rodney since the all star game. If Andy Marte hadn't suddenly been an every day player yesterday I'd ahve gotten Rodney then. So I go and look today and Tosh just beat me to him. ;)
 
25Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 10:39 		Nice Trade.
 
26Great One
      ID: 10658208
      Wed, Jul 30, 2008, 22:33 		Alex Gordon... 5 walks today? seriously? good eye mate.
I just traded Jason Bay away and now he's on my favorite team?! christ.
 
27Peter N.
      ID: 16520218
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 21:25 		I just made a transaction, but made a mistake. When I picked up Baker, I meant to cut Jason Kendall, not Dave Bush.
 
28StLCards
      ID: 372301819
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 22:03 		I dropped Kendall but it's not letting me add Bush back onto your team for some reason. I'm guessing it has to do with him being on waivers. Guess ref will have to do it.
 
29StLCards
      ID: 372301819
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 22:09 		Figured it out.
 
30Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 22:57 		Yeah that sucks. Took me forever to figure that out on CBS.
 
31blue hen
      ID: 86502521
      Sat, Aug 02, 2008, 23:42 		Peter N - why aren't you ever on IM anymore?
 
32Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Aug 03, 2008, 10:22 		Pete, you don't have a C on your team. You must get one before the freeze and activate him.
 
33Peter N.
      ID: 16520218
      Sun, Aug 03, 2008, 10:34 		Ref - I have Baker in there at catcher.

BH - Once I started working, I didn't really have the time. Work, go home, eat and then sleep was my schedule for the first few weeks. Now I'm used to living the non-college life. Also, I had been really sick the past week. You'll probably start seeing me on AIM again soon.
 
34Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Aug 03, 2008, 10:52 		OK for all of you who notice weird transactions with Pete, ehre's the deal. I got an alert saying Pete was illegal yesterday. Looked and saw he had no C.

After investigating, he was legal at the freeze. In order to reverse the Bush deal, Cards had to retro the move to a previous day. The problem was that Kendall was in the same transaction and got wiped from the day. SO I reversed the Cs for yesterday and inserted Kendall. Then reversed them again for today. All fixed and legal.
 
35blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Mon, Aug 04, 2008, 12:16 		Get well soon, Pete.

Cards or any of the other guys, have you been playing around in the ESPN league? Are you enjoying the fact that it has free live stats?
 
36Peter N from the tre
      ID: 276572120
      Fri, Aug 08, 2008, 21:18 		I start Lowe for his implosion and then bench Guthrie today. I can't ever remember a more frustrating year with SPs.
 
37Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 12:38 		Nice run Pete. Tie for first now. No lead is ever safe in this league.
 
38blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Tue, Aug 12, 2008, 13:00 		Yeah, good thing I have both of your first round picks.
 
39Peter N.
      ID: 16520218
      Wed, Aug 13, 2008, 20:36 		Thanks Ref. It should be fun down the stretch.

Enjoy those picks BH. Vazquez hasn't produced like I thought he would when we made that trade. But, if delivers starts like last night for the stretch run, it will have been well worth it.
 
40blue hen
      Leader
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 00:11 		For sure. Any other trades we can make?
 
41Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 02:06 		Code, are you quite done picking up all the guys I drop! ;)
 
42StLCards
      Dude
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 09:45 		Trade deadline is approaching so get your stretch run players now. I still have some quality guys available for trade and I'm sure many other teams do as well.
 
43Code Cracker
      ID: 300152013
      Thu, Aug 14, 2008, 21:24 		Ref, no there's a couple more I need to pick up if you would go ahead and drop them, :P
 
44Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Aug 15, 2008, 21:22 		Cliff Lee & Joe Saunders can be available for teams looking for starting pitching down the stretch.
 
45Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Aug 20, 2008, 18:53 		Anyone interested in Hochevar?
 
46 Peter N.
      ID: 16520218
      Sat, Aug 23, 2008, 16:22 		I'm in the market for an SP. I have prospects Maybin and Scherzer available along with my 2nd round pick.
 
47blue hen
      ID: 86502521
      Sun, Aug 24, 2008, 22:07 		How about Javy Vazquez?
 
48Great One
      ID: 497221412
      Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 12:34 		Anyone looking for a cheap closer? I'd like to at least see a couple trade offers before the deadline for someone on my team... anyone... I'm Bueller... gonna send some out on Saturday... :)
 
49blue hen
      ID: 30311814
      Wed, Aug 27, 2008, 15:51 		Yeah, amazing how people aren't biting this year.
 
50Peter N.
      ID: 2631217
      Fri, Aug 29, 2008, 22:31 		Damn, my team is falling apart just when it matters the most.
 
51StLCards
      ID: 372301819
      Fri, Aug 29, 2008, 22:46 		I'm interested in Scherzer and/or Maybin and have pieces that could help you. Rivera, Arias, Ordonez and others could all be had.
 
52Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Aug 30, 2008, 18:33 		This chatroom that I cna't seem to hide the last couple of days is annoying.
 
53Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Sat, Aug 30, 2008, 20:23 		I have had two different CBS employees tell me (yesterday & today) that the chatroom is fully functional. If we keep sending them messages through the "Help" option, maybe they'll eventually fix it.

My other CBS league is a very chatty group every night. We fill that room up and more ... and we are going through withdrawals. I have two days worth of 'smack talk' I need to release soon.

Last chance to get (via trade) a closer for the homestretch. Fernando Rodney and Frank Francisco are available.
 
54Peter N.
      ID: 16520218
      Tue, Sep 16, 2008, 18:53 		CBS sure would be a hell of a lot more user-friendly if they allowed you to set your lineup like Yahoo. Missing out on Beckett and Sabathia once again tonight. I've lost count at this point!
 
55Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Sep 18, 2008, 13:43 		The Geritol Gang is getting it done!
 
56Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Sep 28, 2008, 13:23 		If there are no games past today then there are no more add/drops. IOW, all moves will be reversed after the freeze of the final game of the season.
 
57beastiemiked
      ID: 37820312
      Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 15:32 		Congrats Ref. Pretty easy win.

Really disappointed in my teams lack of at bats this season. I had 2 guys with over 500 ab's, Reyes and Berkman. Scott and Cust couldn't break completely free of their platoons and Ankiel and Zimmerman couldn't stay healthy.

 
58Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 15:34 		Congrats Ref from the Worst Manager in G20.
 
59Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 21:20 		Congrats Ref. A solid season after a solid draft.

Gurupie20 Records set this season
Tosh tied the 'most wins' record (StlCard, 2004) with 98.

StlCards beat the 'Least Batting Points' record (R9, 2005) with 10.

CodeCracker beat the 'most SB' record (bj21, 2007) with 148.

Twarpy beat the 'best ERA' record (Baldwin, 2003) with 3.27.

I think that is all of them. Thanks to everyone for a great season!
 
60Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Sep 29, 2008, 23:24 		Records could still be broken I suppose. Today's and tomorrow's games do count. FA moves will be frozen for the yera at tomorrow's freeze.

Thanks for the props. Really am shocked by how well I did. Lots of injuries and not a lot of studs. But they all came together!
 
61Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Oct 01, 2008, 11:38 		Final Standings

Ref 171.5
PeterN 147.0
bmd 142.0
bj21 136.5
Twarpy 132.0
Code 128.0
myboyjack 125.5
R9 121.5
Yokel 111.0
Species 110.0
Darkside 110.0
Tosh 102.0
Guru 97.0
allhair 94.5
Toral 87.5
BlueHen 80.5
GreatOne 64.5
GoatLocker 54.0
StLCards 51.0
PermDude 34.0
 
62StLCards
      Dude
      ID: 31010716
      Thu, Oct 02, 2008, 00:40 		Congrats on another great season Ref! Was kind of surprised at the lack of trading down the stretch this year back when several teams seemed to be grouped closely together, unlike last year's blow out by Twarpy.
 
63Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Oct 02, 2008, 12:36 		Even though my tema didn't have the studs, it was really balanced. Even when Pete and bmd made runs at me and even passed me, I was pretty sure I could bounce back w/o having to make any moves. If I had more info, I would have had to make the two trades I made.

1. Marmol. Every thing I read said he would be the closer over Wood. I had teh 18th and 19th picks and could have grabbed them both but I didn't. Hence Ihad to pay an arm and a leg for Soria.
2. Headley was by all accounts the opening day LF for SD. They sent him to the minors and that, coupled with passing on Huff late, kind of forced me to overpay for Cantu. I didn't need him, but I wasn't sure at the time.

So many of my keepers and draft picks went down and that's what surprised me more than anything. Not having Hafner and Smoltz for instance really smarted.

Lastly for all of you who gave me no chance and said this was Twarpy's and Species league to lose and tease me because I have a bunch of old guys...na na na na na! ;)

I've already been informed that two managers will not be returning next year. Trading is open again. If a great manager falls in our lap we could name him in the offseason so he can look at trades but there is no rush.
 
64Great One
      ID: 2936213
      Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 12:35 		You know who's team really stunk? Blue Hen!!! that guy stinks! all his players stink! and there is nothing he can say about it!

Please respond.

 
65Great One
      ID: 2936213
      Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 12:40 		and the ESPN MVP phone is no good! ---that should draw him out... :)
 
66Oopsy Daisy
      ID: 30311814
      Fri, Oct 03, 2008, 12:51 		You really don't need to go to all that effort. There will be plenty of Oopsy Daisy posts either way. Especially if you post something interesting.

By the way, do your research. There is no "ESPN MVP phone" right now. I recommend this page for proper details.

As for my team, you are correct. It really sucks. I am looking to trade away all my half-way decent players for draft picks. Only Ryan Braun is off the market.
 
67Great One
      ID: 56911412
      Sat, Oct 04, 2008, 13:42 		I gotta find a new phone this month, so the service is certainly under consideration!

I need to make some moves myself... gonna have to trade Alex Gordon now that he is 3B only and I can't go with him and Longoria. Looking for a solid 1B option to swap out with him. Or perhaps a good SP, and I'll just draft a random 1B.

Expect to be shopping for a closer as well.

 
68blue hen
      ID: 299161612
      Fri, Nov 14, 2008, 19:15 		Did you get a phone yet?

Anyone want Casey Kotchman?
 
69Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Nov 17, 2008, 17:49 		If anyone wants to nominate managers to take over a team, let me know. As of now it seems there will be two new managers needed.
 
70Slizz
      ID: 4710371415
      Tue, Nov 18, 2008, 10:06 		Count me in.
 
71Peter N.
      ID: 4910362617
      Wed, Dec 10, 2008, 19:14 		First Swisher and now Sabathia. UGH, there is reason why I have never had a Yankee on my team. Who wants them? ;-)
 
72Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Dec 10, 2008, 21:10 		How about clv ? Dude knows his stuff.
 
73Great One
      ID: 4510512113
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 00:09 		I've always liked Swisher, am shopping for a 1B and (unfortunately) have every Yankee game on in my local market... we should talk.
 
74Great One
      ID: 4510512113
      Thu, Dec 11, 2008, 00:09 		Swishers girlfriend by the way?
 
75Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Jan 08, 2009, 14:40 		My son (Jaydog) is interested in taking a team.
 
76Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Jan 08, 2009, 14:48 		Is Sportsline still likely to be the hosting site, or is ESPN a viable contender this year?
 
77Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 08, 2009, 15:09 		Not sure if ESPN was able to address the prospects. They were addressing many other things that were insufficient for us last year though. Haven't looked at their product for '09--if it's even up.

As far as turnover goes...

As of now I have been informed that Code Cracker and StL Cards will not be returning. Slizz and Jaydog have "applied" to take those teams. I am unsure if there are any other teams not returning at this point. No one else has asked about getting a team.
 
78Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jan 08, 2009, 16:01 		I would nominate clv for a team as well. I've asked in the past and he's been interested, but the teams didn't become available or the overworked/can't spend the time I used to on my team owners didn't want to accept a partner.

I guess that's why StL Cards didn't return my email about a trade! lol
 
79blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jan 08, 2009, 17:10 		I'll try to keep you guys in the loop about the ESPN features that will be available. I hope the NBA experience has been a good one.
 
80Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jan 18, 2009, 22:03 		I'd be happy to talk to Slizz, jaydog, clv and anyone else who would be interested.
 
81Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jan 19, 2009, 12:04 		If anyone else is leaving the league, please let me know asap. We will review all other managers asap and get out the re-invites so we know exactly how many openings we will have.
 
82Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jan 20, 2009, 11:07 		Got word from another manager that his job may not allow him to continue for another season but is trying to work it out. Good chance that we will need 3 new managers this season now.
 
83Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jan 20, 2009, 17:23 		YoungRoman may also be interested in a team. So we're getting some quality managers showing interest.

BJ21 is the 3rd team to possibly have to turnover managers, but he's trying to figure out a way to continue.
 
84Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jan 20, 2009, 19:00 		How about BJ21 partnering with someone? I appreciate the difficulty in coming to agreements over draft picks and trades, but it might allow vets to stick around.
 
85Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jan 21, 2009, 01:17 		That is one of the options he's considering.
 
86Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 14:12 		Sent out an email to see if anyone else is not returning. Getting pressure to replace these managers asap so guys can talk trades with them. Guys ready to attack the "newbie" prey! ;)
 
87Perm Dude
      ID: 410112116
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 14:53 		I'm in.
 
88Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 15:54 		Watching this thorough review of all potential incoming candidates got me thinking. I am always brainstorming ways to try and improve this league, and I had an idea about a review of teams that continually under perform. This would certainly include mine all the same cause I've been in the gutter since taking over.

What about something where if you finish in the bottom 5 say 2-3 consecutive years that your status as manager comes under formal review (or vote?). Rest of the league decides if you are contributing, active, improving your squad and if you are asset to the league. It just seems like there are so many other talented managers out there who want a crack at this league, that if I can't get the job done that I should be held accountable for the good of the league. And I need to earn the right to keep my spot in what I consider to be a prestigious league.

Now certainly, this is why I say "up for review" - not - finish at the bottom, you get booted! cause obviously we can't control injuries and things of that nature. A certain amount of luck involved in every season. I guess I can outline an official proposal once we get some feedback - decide on specific criteria like how may seasons in a row? finishing in bottom 5 or bottom 3? what kind of voting process etc.

 
89blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 16:04 		I think bottom 3 for two years or bottom 5 for 3 years. Teams do rebuild.

I think it might have to be a closed (but announced) vote. We all send GO our votes and the results get posted but not the individual managers.

I do think this is important - if we are screening newcomers it's worth screening everybody.
 
90Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 16:08 		Agree with that part about the screening exactly -- thats where that logic came from.

But I wouldn't send them to me obviously, I'd say send to either commishes or an unbiased non-league member who can post results (anonymously).
Maybe somebody who is in the other G20/G24 leagues but doesn't do baseball?

 
91Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 16:17 		At this point, my guess is that we will be back to CBS as our host. Going to look again at ESPN before making it official, but no other site has a way to deal with the prospects. Really wish CBS would deal with them the way they changed football, but we have a workaround that has been successful. Difference is that ESPN is free and CBS is $149 ($30 off if done by Feb 5 so not sure if that price is before or after--prob before) split 20 ways.

Plaque: G24 and G20 Hoops have done away with it. We just got another one for Twarpy last season (still hasn't gotten it to me ;)). So we have some cash invested in it and not sure if you want to nuke it like we did in the other leagues. Also, with CBS, we already get a free bobblehead. It's not personalized. Don't think we've gotten G24 individual trophy out yet. So this needs to be discussed. Will get the details to those not in our other leagues.

We won't be voting on any new proposals until all 20 managers are set. GO is working on one and I know of no others at this point depending on what people think of the plaque issue.
 
92Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 16:29 		bh said there is no way for ESPN to handle our prospects.
 
93Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 17:13 		I really can't believe anyone's really considering a "secret vote" to expel managers they don't believe are up to snuff. Seriously. That's not any league I want to be a part of.
 
94Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 17:21 		A secret vote?

mbj, I am not sure how you took GO's idea but that's not how I took it and it isn't even a proposal at this point. He had something similar for hoops and it didn't even draw enough support for a vote.

Finally, you said the same thing about G24. If you don't want to be a part of our leagues, just let us know.
 
95blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 18:05 		I did say secret vote. As you can imagine, I have no trouble expressing my thoughts, but I figured it might go over better. Either way, as far as I'm concerned.
 
96Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 18:10 		I didn't even see 89 and 90.
 
97Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 18:14 		Have updated some things on our G20/24 baseball web page. G20 Baseball

Some of the potential new managers were looking at our league and that is the best place to go apart from comanaging then deleting and re-inviting to the proper team.
 
98Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 18:30 		Quite aside from whether this is a good idea or not, the minimum period for consideration has to be at least 3 years. You might have teams with personnel situations where it would be irresponsible managing not to make moves that would unfortunately lead to finishing in the bottom three for 2 consecutive years -- i.e., it would be irresponsible to sacrifice guys who might contribute in the future for a collection of mediocre players who might move a team up 5 or 6 places for a year or two, whereupon it would just sink again.
 
99Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 18:39 		Agree with Toral.

I see what GO is trying to do: motivate a manager who continues to bag it to play for next year or remove anyone who is unable to get it done. Just don't know.

We've always re-invited based on activity since sometimes rebuilding projects take longer than others. Maybe it should be on a more individual level where we look at performance and say, hey, GO (or whomever), you need to improve this season if you want to come back next year???
 
100Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 18:49 		I really can't believe anyone's really considering a "secret vote" to expel managers they don't believe are up to snuff. Seriously. That's not any league I want to be a part of.

mbj - please don't consider this political-like spin, but from my perspective this idea sounds intended to have this league be something that is earned and is a priviledge.....something perhaps akin to RIBC. I think the G20/24 leagues were founded with the idea being to offer up the highest level of challenge to some of the highest caliber managers we know. If someone is consistently bad and offers little hope of turning things around, maybe this league isn't for them.

"Secret vote" does sound rather ominous, but I think doing it anonymously would save longtime board friends the uncomfortableness of telling someone you like that the league would like to give someone else a shot to improve the performance of a franchise.

I concur with Toral that if something along these lines is considered that 3 years in the bottom 5 (or whatever level you want to use) is a minimum.
 
101Myboyjack
      Dude
      ID: 014826271
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 20:11 		A secret vote?

mbj, I am not sure how you took GO's idea but that's not how I took it and it isn't even a proposal at this point. He had something similar for hoops and it didn't even draw enough support for a vote.

Finally, you said the same thing about G24. If you don't want to be a part of our leagues, just let us know.

Sounds like there are plenty of managers waiting in the wings. I give up my teams. Thanks for the competition and hard work of keeping the league going.
 
102Perm Dude
      ID: 410112116
      Thu, Jan 22, 2009, 20:18 		I can see where MBJ is coming from here--though he suddenly sounded like Taxman in his last post.

I wouldn't be for such a move by the league, as I think we have enough turnover as it is. We can probably churn up the league a but by lowering the number of keepers if having people near the bottom is a problem (the more keepers we have, the more static places can become). But I don't think the league really wants to solve that problem in that way, which makes me think it isn't a real problem.

pd
 
103blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 10:16 		In a 20 team league, is turnover really that bad? In RIBC, there's about 30 or 40 percent turnover every year and no one is complaining. I don't want this to be a competition to stay in the league, but I'm here specifically because of the challenge of it. If someone isn't competing, it brings down the overall level of the league. If you're interested in a casual league, why not just join a 12-teamer?
 
104Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 10:20 		101: mbj thanks for being part of the two leagues.
 
105Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 10:56 		Well the main difference with RIBC is that its non-keeper so that makes the turnover a bit easier. But I don't think this review will increase turnover any more -- all it is will be like a checks/balances type thing to make sure everyone is doing their part. How many teams would even qualify to be reviewed from year to year? 1 or 2 at most? 3 straight years in the bottom 5 (as loosely outlined) isn't exactly easy to do - and the likelihood that we would part ways would be small, cause surely that team has been decimated by injuries or whatever the reason and thats fine. I just think its worth establishing a basic criteria to "officially" assess that teams situation, plan and direction and to make sure there isn't a more dynamic alternative that might be able to shake things up and improve the league.

I mean if I keep finishing in the bottom 3 and showing no improvement (and lord knows I am 1 more season away from fitting this criteria!) and Ref looks and sees Theo Epstien and Billy Beane are on the waiting list... how the heck can I rationalize for the good of this league that I not let those guys give it a shot and I step aside.

 
106Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 11:00 		If either of those two are on the wait list, I will gladly trade them places! ;)
 
107Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 11:05 		Billy Beane does have a Playstation game coming out, and I'm not even kidding. Its like MLB GM or something like that.
 
108Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 11:09 		The main difference with RIBC, for the purpose of this argument, is that if you are relegated you can go down to AAA and get back in.

So is there's a 20-man waiting list, we could start a Gurupie 20 AAA with the 3 or 4 bottom teams relegated to AAA every year and the top 4 teams replacing them.

If you were relegated because you had to do some intelligent rebuilding you'd make it back up in a few years. If you were relegated because you were a bad manager, you'd never make it back, thus achieving the original goal of getting rid of bad managers, withour having secret votes or having to insult anyone's abilities.

Now all we need is 20 people to pay money for a league self-advertising it as AAA....

Toeal
 
109Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 11:11 		Please welcome YoungRoman, Jaydog and Slizz to the league. They will be replacing these three teams: StL Cards, Code and mbj. Bj21 has decided to stay in the league afterall.

I will ready the dice rolls so they can pick their teams after getting the rosters to them. This may be finalized yet today.
 
110Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 11:53 		Toral, that (euro-soccer) idea of moving teams up and down to a "AAA" is something I thought about originally... I wonder if we couldn't make even a 10-12 team "G20" league and that essentially becomes the waiting list as you suggest.
 
111Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 11:58 		Not sure if there is thta kind of demand for an "AAA" but if there was enough interst for an AAA, they could play ESPN w/o prospects perhaps so there is no site fee.

Problem you run into though are the people who start playing for next season with their draft pick/prospect trades, etc. Not sure this would work out too well.
 
112Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 12:18 		I have doubts that AAA makes any sense for this league. The skills needed to succeed in a keeper league with prospects are not the same as for a non-keeper/non-prospect league. And I don't think a keeper AAA league makes any sense at all.
 
113Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 12:33 		WELCOME to youngroman, Jaydog and Slizz.

Depending upon which team you get in the wheel of fortune, you might want to expect some emails from me!!
 
114Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 12:58 		Dice Roll results:

611 Jaydog, 546 Slizz, 509 YR

So Jaydog has first pick of teams. Slizz 2nd.
 
115Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 12:59 		I've never suggested an AAA league, I will point out, merely suggested an alternative idea to the one proposed that would work if there were people willing to play along. But even though I know this isn't going to happen, I still feel like explaining how this sand-castle-in-the-air league should work:

(1) A 12-team or 14-team AAA os pointless under these circumstances. Part of the difficulty of this league is adjusting to the different valuations necessary in a league of this size given differential positional scarcity so an AAA league should have 20 members, just like the main league.

(2) The AAA league should definitely be a keeper league and ideally should have prospects although that's not crucial. The point is to create a venue where managers can demonstrate that they have the ability to move up to the bigs. The playing rules should therepore mimic the big league rules as much as possible. Winning a redraft league just isn't the same thing. You might have to rebuild with keeper and prospect strategies in AAA to get in the top just as much as you might have to in the bigs. The managers being relegated would then (properly) have the advantage of starting in AAA with the keepers held by the teams that have moved up.

Just to repeat, I'm not saying such a thing could work in RL. I don't think you'll find 20 people who will think "Hey, I feel like joining a 20-man league which works on the assumption that I'm not as good a manager as the guys in this other league, and if I have a bad day in the first draft I may have to spend 3 or 4 years to get to the top of this minor league just to get to join the big league, inheriting a bad team, all for the pleasure of playing with these managers some of whom aren't so hot anyway as I know having played against them."

I could instead list a bunch of reasons why the idea wouldn't work but that's no fun because it's too easy. For example, just for two, there would be undoubtedly be occasions where someone considered a superb choice as a replacement manager couldn't be picked because of this AAA thing which makes us go to the the manager there; AAA would soon have bottom teams so bad that no one could be recruited to replace dropout managers.

Toral
 
116Great One
      ID: 151126410
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 13:37 		Toral - I think you are spot on that its the perfect system and a great concept IF we had 15-20 more guys interested. It could be a sweet proving ground league. So maybe if we all of a sudden get a huge influx of new guys that want in this league, we keep that in the back of our mind.
 
117Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 15:34 		RE 115

Nice Post
 
118Jaydog
      ID: 419101610
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 16:54 		I'm going to take myboyjack. Really looking forward to the season.
 
119blackjackis21
      Dude
      ID: 034837521
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 16:57 		Hey all - fortunately mjd has agreed to help co-pilot my team this year. Ref - can you please add him to the distribution list for your e-mails? I don't believe there's a way to list two e-mails for one team on the website, but correct me if I'm wrong. Otherwise, either of us is free to make or discuss trades/lineup changes/ add/drops, whatever. He has my logon info. Looking forward to the season. Thanks.
 
120Slizz
      ID: 4710371415
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 17:03 		Going with the code...
 
121Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 17:03 		I'm going to take myboyjack. Really looking forward to the season.

So the young man whose father is a Cleveland Indians fan chooses a Cincinnati-laden squad!! Sacriledge!
 
122Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 17:07 		Looks official then:

myboyjack is now the property of Jaydog

Code Cracker is now the property of Slizz

StL Cards is now the property of youngroman

Announcement: I would like to consider trade discussions involving Indians catcher Victor Martinez. While I understand his value would not be the peak it was after his 2007 season, please understand I do not think his value equals his fluke 2008 season either.

I'm interested in a 2nd baseman but can talk anything.
 
123blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 17:19 		I'll give you Jeff Kent.
 
124Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 17:25 		Actually, Cleveland and Cincy aren't really historical rivals - at least, not in baseball. They just happen to be in the same state.

Not true in football, however. Cincy, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore are all hated rivals for the Browns. I'd bet that Cincy ranks 3rd on that list, though - well behind the other two.

 
125Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 17:35 		I also don't want to forget to Thank Code Cracker and especially StL Cards. Cards helped me so much as commish and losing him in that capacity was a big loss.

So as Species said the league is set.

RE: 119 and bj/mjd's team

The way a co-owned team works is that EITHER of them has the authority to make a transaction. You don't have to talk to voth of them. Now they will likely want to consult each other, but by having access to the team, whatever they do is as if they were sole owner. They only get one vote on anything, obviously. If a team opens up, mjd has the right to apply for that team if he chooses. mjd REALLY wanted in this league bad and is super active. I think he can really help bj21 as he also wanted to stay in but is worried about not being as active as he needs to be to be a contender. Thanks bj21 for thinking of the league!!!

YR and Slizz have signed into their teams and the former owners have been removed. Same thing will be done for Jaydog when he's able to get to it. Invite just went out to mjd to co-manage w/bj.

Please help the new managers get acquainted with the league. I've told them they could ask any of us for assistance. Slizz is in our other two leagues so he at least has an idea of how we run things. YR is from Europe, but don't let his location fool you--the man knows his stuff. May need to help him out for the drafts--but other drafts I've been in with him hasn't even been noticeable. I've been runner-up to him in hoops and football in another league and he excels in baseball. As Species alluded, Jaydog has a special conneciton to a damn good manager in our league too and is very active and talented by all accounts.
 
126Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 19:50 		Welcome to the new managers. Best of luck.

I consider most of my players tradeable, but here's a few players I would look to be trading first. If you need a big gun, consider Jason Bay (OF, BOS) or Carlos Lee (OF, HOU). If you are looking to go younger, consider Clay Buchholz (SP, BOS) or Delmon Young (OF, MIN).
 
127Peter N.
      ID: 4910362617
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 20:18 		Gotta love having Slizz in another league!

Welcome to Jaydog and yr.
 
128Slizz
      ID: 4208421
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 21:58 		thanks Peter N! Hopefully i'm not as woeful in this as I am in basketball.
 
129Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jan 23, 2009, 23:14 		I have way too many keepers. But at this point, I haven't figure out who I'd likely be keeping. Obviously there are some I can't because of the 9 limit.
 
130darkside
      ID: 3039119
      Sat, Jan 24, 2009, 10:14 		Welcome fellas...it's a good league.

I'm looking to move pitching. Have got some good, young starters (P. Hughes, Josh Johnson, J. Lester, and B. Myers) and several relievers looking at closing jobs (J. Broxton, J. Devine, J. Motte, M. Lindstrom, and maybe B. Morrow). I like Lester and Broxton the most, but would listen to any offers.

Wouldn't mind moving an OF'er, but I guess that's true for lots of us.
 
131blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, Jan 24, 2009, 12:05 		Darkside: What are you looking for?

I'll looking to move Russell Martin, Jose Valverde, and Adam Jones. Looking for some pitching, hopefully fairly young and with a lot of strikeouts. Or a hitter.
 
132darkside
      ID: 3039119
      Sat, Jan 24, 2009, 12:34 		blue hen: I made an offer to get things started...
 
133blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, Jan 24, 2009, 14:02 		Got it, Darkside, and I responded. I think we match up well.
 
134Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jan 25, 2009, 09:47 		Ok, since we're now in preseason 2009, we need to start a new thread here.