|
| Posted by: blue hen
- [299161612] Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 10:10
It's Hamels vs. Kazmir tonight. Anybody have thoughts? |
| | | 1 | Razor
ID: 545172413
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 10:29
|
My first thought is that Hamels and Kazmir were two-thirds of group of dominating lefty pitching prospects back in 2004 that were thought to be destined for stardom. Starting Game 1 of the World Series qualifies as fulfilling that stardom. Greg Miller, the other member of that trio, is never going to be anything more than a reliever, if anything. There is a staying that there is no such thing as a pitching prospect, but there obviously exceptions to that rule, and two of them are taking the hill tonight. When you can pay your ace $500,000 a year, you ought to be able to form a pretty good team around him.
|
|
| | | 2 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:10
|
I remember Miller. But he was quite young at that point, and unless you're Dwight Gooden, being young means more time to break down. That said, Edwin Jackson has turned into a pretty serviceable pitcher. And the Dodgers have a phenom of their own: Clayton Kershaw. Not to mention Chad Billingsley, who is still very young and has a very bright future.
But this thread is about 2008 pennant winners. Hamels and Myers were both big prospects for the Phillies and both are important members of this team. Ryan Madson was also in the discussion and he's important if not quite as prominent. It almost makes me comfortable with some of the pitching we've given away over the years like Gio Gonzalez, Gavin Floyd, and Josh Outman.
Tampa, on the other hand, seems pretty stacked. Kazmir is finally the star we thought he'd be, but Jackson, Sonnanstine, and Shields are also important contributors. Add in Garza and Price, who have since joined the fray, along with some of the current minor league crop, and Tampa will be the home of great pitching for years to come.
For this World Series, what do you guys think of the DH situation? Neither team has a deep enough bench. Matt Stairs could play for the Phils, but then they lose his ability to pinch hit for Ruiz or Feliz. I guess Coste and Dobbs could do that.
|
|
| | | 3 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:30
|
I heard the stats the other day for NL DH's in AL Parks during the last 11 or so world Series. Something like just 3 hits in 45 at bats? That's pretty ridiculous, it's really not fair.
The emergence of Willie Aybar was huge in the ALCS. They've got a good bench - Baldelli, Gabe Gross, Cliff Floyd and, I think, the under-used Fernando Perez.
I've officially jumped on the bandwagon and adopted the Rays as my 2nd favorite team, even got me a Kazmir jersey (which as a Mets fan was painful at first, but if they beat the Phils I'm totally over it)
|
|
| | | 4 | Seattle Zen
ID: 49112418
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:49
|
even got me a Kazmir jersey
Did the store let you trade in your V. Zambrano jersey? What did you get on the trade-in? 37 cents? :)
|
|
| | | 5 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 12:58
|
You got a Kazmir jersey? I'd say that's borderline shameful. What's next, a Cole Hamels jersey? You really glavined it this time.
Willy Aybar's been a revelation for the Rays, but let's remember that most NL teams never intend to have a DH. I think the DH is an advantage for the NL because:
- NL pitchers generally hit better than AL pitchers
- In NL parks, AL teams have to bench a starter
- NL managers can manage the double switch better (except Dusty Baker)
Of course, if they go 2 for 20, it's moot. Who would you place at DH for the Phils?
|
|
| | | 6 | Donkey Hunter
ID: 176121816
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 13:34
|
I think the DH or no DH will not be a big deal for this series. Its not like the Rays have an Ortiz/Giambi/Thome that they either have to sit or put in the field. Aybar and Cliff Floyd are ok but not a real integral part of the offense. I think it says something when your DH is batting like 6th normally.
|
|
| | | 7 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 15:31
|
blue hen - my guess [Manuel won't say] is Stairs or Jenkins [maybe save Dobbs for PH]. Flip of a coin really. Is Dobbs better coming off bench as a PH? Stairs homered as PH?
Except maybe tonight.
Tonight's starter Kazmir is a lefty. Phils don't have much RH bat strength on bench - I only see Taguchi or Bruntlett - use them as DH, limits righty lefty options against relievers - Howell [or sometimes used Miller].
|
|
| | | 8 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 15:38
|
Yeah. If Jenkins could actually hit, it'd work out a lot better. Start Dobbs at 3B, and Jenkins at DH. Leaves Stairs, Feliz, Coste, Taguchi, and Brunlett as the bench. Coste is important, but he'll never play because they don't have a third catcher.
|
|
| | | 9 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Wed, Oct 22, 2008, 20:37
|
So much for 'normal' thinking. ESPN lineup shows Coste as DH. Now I have to check up on the DH rules.
If Coste is needed in the game as a catcher, Phillies lose DH and pitcher has to bat??
|
|
| | | 10 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 00:42
|
Nice game. I'm not the only person who thought that the Phillies had to win this game if they were to stand a chance. Even though 10 of the past 11 Series winners won game one, I'd say the series is a toss up at this point. The Rays have better starters for the next three games, but, wow, they better not plan on winning any games in the ninth... Brad Lidge is dealing!
|
|
| | | 11 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 10:47
|
Lidge looked really good. But honestly, the Rays bullpen looked absolutely dominating. The only hope is that they were worn out a bit in game 1. I guess Coste made sense as the DH. Werth can catch, actually, and I think the Phils would have a much better lineup with him at catcher. Would need another outfielder for that to happen.
|
|
| | | 12 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 23, 2008, 12:57
|
Maybe the Phillies should just letting Brett Myers bat tonight :):)
Phillies have only scored 43 runs [40 RBI's] in 10 games.
RBI Leaders:
1. Victorino ____11
2t. Burrell _____7
2t. Utely _______7
3t. Brett Myers __3 [5 AB's]
3t. Howard
|
|
| | |
| | | 14 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Fri, Oct 24, 2008, 11:58
|
Expected heavy rain in the forecast for Philadelphia on Saturday could push back games 3-5 and eliminate the off day. That would leave 5 games straight without a day off the rest of the series. It would be interesting to see what the rotation then looks like as we'd be looking at short rest for game 3 and 7 starters Garza and Moyer if the managers stay with the 4 man rotation.
But if either manager wants to alter the rotation, game 1 starters Hamels and Kazmir could pitch game 4 on regular rest and game 2 starters Myers and Shields could pitch game 5 on regular rest. But that also leaves the fourth starters to make their series debut in game 6.
The forcasters are usually wrong, but it would be interensting to see how each manager adjusts.
|
|
| | | 15 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Fri, Oct 24, 2008, 12:04
|
In makes for a better series IMO, you get to see the team as a hole. Not just what the off days dictated.
|
|
| | | 16 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 01:55
|
Another great game in front of a great crowd. What a performance by Moyer! You could see the baseball gods themselves reach town from Olympus and push Longoria's home run back onto the field tonight.
I could imagine what a night it must have been in some of the crazy bars in Philly tonight. The beer must have been pouring fast all night, then come 1am after Upton scores to tie it up, I'm sure things got quiet, then a little testy. The uproar at Ruiz's swinging bunt must have been deafening. Man, I'd would have loved to been a part of that.
Hangovers are forecast in the greater Philadelphia area.
|
|
| | | 17 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 01:42
|
Great game - FWIW - interesting scoring 'oddity'. WHen I saw the winning run was earned, first thought was box score was wrong. But when I thought about it, it's correct. Runner got to third technically because of two 'walks' when you take the error out of play.
Bruntlett HBP, to second on WP. That in itself does not have an effect on earned run - if he'd stayed at second and scored on a single, run is earned [rule 10.16 (a). He went to third on an error by the catcher. If next better hit a Sac Fly and game ended, run is un-earned. In recreating the inning the way it happened though, a HBP, WP to second, two walks [even though intentional - count as walks [rule 10.16], that puts runner on third even if there is no error by catcher - even though there would have been no IBB if there was no error.
Rule 10.16 (a) --- Wild Pitch does not make runs unearned. --------- The official scorer shall charge an earned run against a pitcher every time a runner reaches home base by the aid of safe hits, sacrifice bunts, a sacrifice fly, stolen bases, putouts, fielder’s choices, bases on balls, hit batters, balks or wild pitches (including a wild pitch on third strike that permits a batter to reach first base) before fielding chances have been offered to put out the offensive team.
Rule 10.16 -- IBB count same as any other BB for scoring purposes. ------- An earned run is a run for which a pitcher is held accountable. In determining earned runs, the official scorer shall reconstruct the inning without the errors (which exclude catcher’s interference) and passed balls, giving the benefit of the doubt always to the pitcher in determining which bases would have been reached by runners had there been errorless play. For the purpose of determining earned runs, an intentional base on balls, regardless of the circumstances, shall be construed in exactly the same manner as any other base on balls.
Unless PA has changed its laws [30 years since I lived there], most bars might have had last call as the game was ending [2 AM]. Luckily the game was only 3 hours and 41 minutes. Some of the playoff games have gone until 2 AM as it was without the rain delay.
|
|
| | | 18 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 13:05
|
Unless PA has changed its laws [30 years since I lived there], most bars might have had last call as the game was ending [2 AM].
Could you imagine a PA cop showing up to a bar during the bottom of the ninth threatening to shut the place down if they kept serving beer? Yeah, right!
|
|
| | | 19 | Great One
ID: 56911412
Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 13:13
|
Speaking of Philly... if you know the area -- Wachovia Center (Flyers/Sixers) and the Eagles, Phillies stadiums are all next to each other and share a lot of parking. On tap for today? Eagles game... Phillies World Series game... The Who - sold out at Wachovia Center. I better leave early for the concert, its gonna be messy!
|
|
| | | 20 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Sun, Oct 26, 2008, 13:59
|
Is there any doubt that if Longoria would've just let it go that it wouldn't have just gone foul???? ughhhh
Not only did they have last call at the bar I was at, but if that game would've gone into extra innings I wouldn't have had a place to watch it!!!!
|
|
| | | 21 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 10:32
|
This series will be an important point in the "clutch hitting" argument. The reality is that if you get that many people on base, you'll score them eventually. Even last night they left 8 on in the first 3 innings.
|
|
| | | 22 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 14:39
|
I just want to say that this is such a good feeling. My team is currently "in" the World Series. By tomorrow, those words could be in the past tense, and while I will definitely be happy, I can't imagine that it can compare to this. Right now, the most important games in the sport involve my team. And every newspaper and TV program is breaking down Feliz, Lidge, and Blanton, the way I have done in my mind (and occasionally on paper) for so long. Jamie Moyer called it the greatest moment in his career, and that's a long career. Every team fights and fights and spends and spends for the dream of playing in a World Series, and right now, the series is happening. Every night, there's a new important Phillies game, a new storyline that might not grip the entire nation, but it's certainly a topic in the news. There are some words that just sound right, like 1986 Mets, 1984 Tigers, 1991 Twins, 2003 Marlins, 1927 Yankees, 1976 Reds, and even 1980 Phillies, and I am so happy that we're looking to add 2008 Phillies to the mix. And with players that are so likable - Howard, Utley, Victorino, Lidge, Ruiz. I've had many great moments as a baseball fan, including watching a World Series game in the gallery of the Hall of Fame, attending three All-Star Games, and the first time I opened the 1989 Official MLB Preview, but I can't imagine many of those can compare to what I felt last night, sitting on my couch watching my team get that much closer to a championship.
If you're a fan of the Patriots, Bulls, Yankees, Lakers, Celtics, or even Marlins, I hope you took time to appreciate the moment while it was happening. That's what I've tried to do for the last 15 minutes, so thanks for listening. I hope I didn't jinx it.
[/wax]
|
|
| | | 23 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 14:40
|
good point blue hen - using a few different standards to determine "Runs Created" based on Phillies / Tampa hitting for the series, the Phillies should have outscored Tampa 25-27 to 8-9.
As it is they have outscored them 20 to 12.
Phillies OPS = .879
Tampa OPS = .531
Amazingly, for the entire post season, opponents OPS against the Phillies is .618
Opponent stats for 13 games [subject to my spreadsheet errors]
41 RUNS
.222 Bating Avg [92-414]
.302 OB Pct
.316 Slugging Pct [131 TB's, 8 HR's]
.618 OPS
Runs created is close [38-39]
Phillies stats for 13 games [subject to my spreadsheet errors]
60 RUNS
.260 Bating Avg [113-434]
.344 OB Pct
.459 Slugging Pct [199 TB's, 19 HR's]
.802 OPS
But along the same line [clutch hitting], those stats shoukld have produced 66-67 runs.
|
|
| | | 24 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Mon, Oct 27, 2008, 23:59
|
I was SO ready to celebrate. (I still have my score sheets from 1980...)
I suspect it will be Price for TB for as long as he is effective. For Philly, depends on R/L lineup for the 7th, but
Madson 8th and Lidge 9th. We do need some hits though...
Is this the first suspended WS game? I am glad they called it early enough so everyone can get home and
rested. BUT, weather tomorrow is not much better -- more rain all day (Nor'easter), windy (gusts 40-50 mph)
and 30's (WC 20's) at game time (8 pm).
|
|
| | | 25 | philflyboy
ID: 20932156
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 10:05
|
I think the fair thing to do last night would have been to call the game at the top of the 6th or play until the 7th and then call the game. It was an unfair advantage to not give the Phillies a chance to score again in the 6th with the wet field.
|
|
| | | 26 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 10:52
|
Not even the Phillies themselves would want to win the World Series leading by a run with three or four innings left to play due to rain. I can imagine the frustrations of the fans who were in attendance last night. Of course you want to see your team clinch and you might not be able to come back the next night, but seriously, who would want to the umpires to say, "it's over" when you are up by a measly run?
|
|
| | | 27 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 10:58
|
So if Philly scored, then what? Then we're in the crappy situation where they can't suspend it.
This is definitely the first suspended game. The idea of suspended games started last year.
The Rays are in pretty good shape at this point (at least for Game 5).
|
|
| | | 28 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:14
|
The Rays are in a good spot. All they have to do is win a 3 inning game and they can return to St. Pete. That's not a bad position at all for a team that looked like its goose was cooked after Game 4.
|
|
| | | 29 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:21
|
The Phils get 4 half-innings while the Rays only get 3. By definition, that makes the Phils favorites (in addition to the standard home field advantage). But you're right - this certainly isn't where we imagined the Rays would be in the first inning last night.
|
|
| | | 30 | JeffG
Leader
ID: 01584348
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:48
|
Tough for the fans to have to endure the horrible weather for most of the game, just to end up having to come back for the conclusion (and again pay for parking, etc). In 20/20 hindsight, it was probably not a good idea to have started it at all yesterday.
The comments in post [28] & [29] would have been no different than if the weather was fine and the game was 2-2 and played through. Tampa did it's job of staying even with Hamels and getting the game to the pens. Hamels is leading off the bottom of the 6th, I guess he probably would have batted and come out to pitch the seventh in normal weather conditions. Tough break, like in any other rain delay situation. Then again, if they don't play again to Thanksgiving as Selig quipped, Hamels will be well rested to go out and pitch into the 13th.
|
|
| | | 31 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 11:58
|
I had a friend from New York who went down for the game, but had to come back for work today (rather than miss a second day). He's a huge Phillies fan and that kind of sucks for him.
|
|
| | | 32 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 12:32
|
The Rays are in a good spot. All they have to do is win a 3 inning game and they can return to St. Pete. That's not a bad position at all for a team that looked like its goose was cooked after Game 4.
|
|
| | | 33 | KrazyKoalaBears
ID: 45657107
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 13:11
|
All they have to do is win a 3 inning game and they can return to St. Pete.
That's actually a very interesting way of looking at things. When I read that sentence, I couldn't help but think about other instances where something that seemed so simple turned out to be so difficult.
For instance...
2004 ALCS: NYY v. BOS
"All the Yankees have to do is get three outs without allowing a run and they can go to the World Series."
August 5, 2001: SEA v. CLE
"All the Mariners have to do is get one out without allowing 5 runs and they can win the game."
I'm sure there are TONS of other examples, but it doesn't make the original statement seem any less likely. And I agree that TAM has put itself in a much better position than anyone would have thought they'd be in.
|
|
| | | 34 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 13:28
|
Now here's the real key - are Games 6 and 7 delayed a day due to the rainout? If they are not, Tampa Bay will have survived a Cole Hamels start and it would be impossible for him to pitch again.
Philly is definitely capable of winning in Tampa, but the momentum definitely shifts to Tampa Bay if the series goes back there. Phillies seemed to be on the verge of clinching and having not closed it out at home with their ace on the mound could leave them wondering, "What if?"
|
|
| | | 35 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 14:25
|
Rays have been forced to find a hotel in Delaware. The horrors! I mean seriously - Delaware?
In all seriousness, it's a REALLY nice hotel. And the commute is about the same as from Midtown Manhattan to Shea Stadium.
|
|
| | | 36 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 15:10
|
Delaware! That's a "cruel and unusual punishment" if there ever was one.
|
|
| | | 37 | J
Leader
ID: 049346417
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 16:08
|
I say just finish the series in Tampa :)
|
|
| | | 38 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Tue, Oct 28, 2008, 16:19
|
Start game 5 at 8:00 AM tomorrow, and make them fly to TB to play game 6(if TB wins) at 7:30 that night. That can't be any worse than being in Delaware! :)
|
|
| | | 39 | Skidazl
Leader
ID: 379312323
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 09:46
|
Game 7 would be on Friday now(assuming no "travel day"), so Hamels could go on Friday with 3 days rest...
GO PHILLIES!!!
|
|
| | | 40 | PuNk42AE
Donor
ID: 036635522
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 10:48
|
Oh what's with all of the Delaware Hate! We're allowing them to spend their money Tax Free!
|
|
| | | 41 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 12:40
|
Vegas odds on Phillies fans bringing long-range super soakers into the stadium and pelting Tampa fielders on popups?
8 to 1.
|
|
| | | 42 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 17:06
|
Ok I seriously need a translator for Charlie Manuel more than I need one for Ozzie Guillen. Where in the world is this guy from?
|
|
| | | 43 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 17:39
|
Buffoonsville, Maryland.
If they win it, I think Manuel might be the most incompetent manager in a while to win a title. Manuel just seems like he is along for the ride, win or lose.
|
|
| | | 44 | catfish
ID: 599582919
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 22:00
|
Nice, blue hen.
|
|
| | | 45 | Seattle Zen
ID: 358591721
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 22:07
|
Congrats all y'all Phillie fans!
|
|
| | | 46 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 22:35
|
Congrats blue hen, judy, anybody else. Enjoy it. Once again the loser of the all-star game gets home field advantage in the W.S. and the winner of the all-star game has never ended up with home field advantage.
|
|
| | | 47 | JTSERB
Donor
ID: 481020120
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 23:36
|
um, the White Sox won the world series in 05. They had home field advantage.
|
|
| | | 48 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 23:43
|
YAHOOOOOOOO
PHILLIES!!!!
|
|
| | | 49 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Wed, Oct 29, 2008, 23:44
|
Um, there were two games in Chicago and two games in Houston. No home field advantage for either league that year.
|
|
| | | 50 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:15
|
That's not really how it works. The Rays had home-field advantage this year.
|
|
| | | 51 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:34
|
And yet more games were played in philly than in Tampa. weird
|
|
| | | 52 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:51
|
Just because they lost home field advantage does not mean they never had it.
|
|
| | | 53 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:55
|
I believe that B7 has ben making the case for a few years now that the series should go 2-2-1-1-1 instead of 2-3-2 so that the team with home field is guaranteed to never be able to lose homefield.
|
|
| | | 54 | blue hen
ID: 299161612
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 10:58
|
Who's going to pay for that? The fans?
|
|
| | | 55 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:11
|
Pay for what? The teams to fly back and forth an extra 2 times?
|
|
| | | 56 | Kyle
Donor
ID: 052753312
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:34
|
I believe that B7 has ben making the case for a few years now that the series should go 2-2-1-1-1 instead of 2-3-2 so that the team with home field is guaranteed to never be able to lose homefield.
Pay for what? The teams to fly back and forth an extra 2 times?
This will only extend the baseball playoffs. I have to admit I lost interest after the White Sox were eliminated, but that was mainly because the NFL was starting to get into full swing and my fantasy basketball draft was looming. If they start playing in late March then I will concede that 2-2-1-1-1 will be a good idea, but I don't want to see November baseball (which is all but guaranteed next year). I don't mind an early-February Super Bowl, or the NBA playoffs to last 3 months, but baseball is a summer sport and when it's snowing outside Philly during the World Series, that's a problem. Plan to end the World Series before October 20th every year. Period.
|
|
| | | 57 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:43
|
Actually I think November is guaranteed next year. I think game 7 is scheduled for the 7th but I may be wrong.
If it were changed to 2-2-1-1-1 you would not have to give a day off for travel between every location change. I am sure both teams have played back to back days in different cities 25 times during the season.
In fact what if that plan coincided with (wait for it, this is a drastic idea) an afternoon World Series game followed by a night game the next night in the new city.
|
|
| | | 58 | Donkey Hunter
Leader
ID: 916288962
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 11:44
|
ok from SI.com
"Next year, the Series doesn't start until Oct. 28 and Game 7 would be Nov. 5."
|
|
| | | 60 | judy
Leader
ID: 7771722
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:02
|
Re #58 And this is out Summer Pasttime??? They are crazy.
As are the thoughts of having the series (a week's worth of games) at a neutral weather friendly
site. Baseball is 162 games for fans and they deserve to be able to cheer for their home team.
Going to a night game (far too late a start anyway IMO) is far different than getting a whole week
off from work -- with travel, hotels etc expenses. Only the super rich who have no passion for
the team could go. Stupid idea.
|
|
| | | 61 | Building 7
ID: 471052128
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:05
|
Just because they lost home field advantage does not mean they never had it.
But they never had it. No one knows how many games it will go, and they only have it if it goes 7 games. If it goes 5 games like it did, then the loser of the All-star game has home field advantage.
|
|
| | | 62 | Perm Dude
ID: 219572916
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:20
|
Home field advantage also means that the series opens in your home field. And that occurs no matter how many games the series goes.
|
|
| | | 63 | Seward Norse
ID: 297412913
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:20
|
I would like to see ALL off days eliminated(except for a day between series). Play Game 2's and Game 5's in the afternoon. This would make teams keep a 5 man rotation(or go on short rest) and would be a better indicator of which TEAM is actually better instead of which team has the best 2-3 starting pitchers.
If we did this for the first two rounds, then they could spread out the WS more and adapt B7's plan if they wanted to and we'd still be done quite a bit earlier.
|
|
| | | 64 | Khahan
ID: 1065339
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:22
|
Building 7, you are looking at projection vs reality. Sorry but those are 2 very different conceptions. The All-star games gives the winning league homefield advantage in a best of 7 WS. Its projected to be 7 and if it comes down to the do-or-die game 7 for both teams the winner of the Allstar game has it.
Just because the other team ended up doing their job better/more efficiently/quicker does not negate that the Allstar game winner would get homefield in game 7.
Its what can be offered under the current set up or 2-3-2. The only way to gaurantee homefield advantage would be to make the series into a 4-3 format.
At any rate the All star game, since it IS a meaningless exhibition game, should have no bearing whatsoever on the WS. The team with the best record should have homefield advantage.
But then again B7, by your rationale, if the team with the best record loses in 5, they still would not have earned home field advantage, would they?
You need to apply the term BEFORE the series starts, when its stll a best of 7 and there could potentially be 7 games. The right to that is meaningless after the fact when it turns out it was only 5 games or 6 games. But we can't know that before hand.
|
|
| | | 65 | barilko6
ID: 58133021
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 12:40
|
I wonder what teams would decide if they had the choice to pick whether they would want to be the 2 games on either end or the 3 games in the middle of a 2-3-2 set up.
|
|
| | | 66 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 22:20
|
I'd pick starting at HOME.
Last 15 WS, team playing first game at home has won 11 times.
When it went 7 games [only real home field edge], home team is 3-0 in game seven. They are also 9-3 at home, 3-6 on the road.
When it went 6 games, team starting at home is 3-1 [and game 6 is also at home].
Over all in those 15 series [93 & 95-08], team starting at home is 28-12 at home, 20-20 on road, 48-32 over all and 11-4 in series.
BUT, the winning teams in those 15 years is 60-20 and was 36-9 at home and 'only' 24-11 on the road. So, home is good, but home is really good if you are the 'better' team that series.
Three series' went 5 games. Only home field team to win was 2000 Yanks who started 2-0 at home. Both Tigers [06] and Tampa [08] started 1-1 at home and then lost three straight on the road.
Five series' were sweeps, 4 started in winning teams parks.
HOME sweet HOME.
|
|
| | | 67 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 22:34
|
In the 2008 World Series, there were 3 games played in Philadelphia and 2 in Florida. Tampa Bay had the home field advantage.
Does anybody agree with that statement?
|
|
| | | 68 | steve houpt
ID: 451161019
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 22:41
|
I agree - Tampa had home field advantage. Home field advantage is if it goes seven games you get 4 games at home. If you do not lose at home [the first two games], you are guaranteed you cannot lose on the road. Worst you can be is 2-3.
But, for every game you lose at home you have to win one on the road. As soon as you lose one at home, you have 'lost home field advantage' until you win one on the road, if you consider the home team 'favored' to win each game. But all Tampa had to do was go 1-2 in Philly after losing one at home, to come back to Tampa. That's an advantage IMHO.
|
|
| | | 69 | Building 7
ID: 174591519
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 23:27
|
But it didn't go 7 games, it went 5 games. I give up.
In the entire history of 7 game world series', game 7 has been roughly split between the home team winning and the visiting team winning.
|
|
| | | 70 | Razor
ID: 529382710
Thu, Oct 30, 2008, 23:51
|
Philly stole home field advantage by winning in Tampa. Had Tampa won its home games, it would have been impossible for Philly to win at home.
|
|
| | |
|
|