Forum: base
Page 19804
Subject: Gurupie 20 2009 Season 7 Discussion

  Posted by: Ref - Donor [539581218] Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 16:05
Draft Discussion

Draft Thread

Preseason Discussion

Waivers have been turned on. CBS now has an actual date to start them on instead of simply starting them manually. Also, it seems they findally got teh day's right. Before when they said Waivers were running on Saturday, they actually meants 2 am on Sunday. But now it seems that if they say they are running on Sat, it's 2AM on Saturday.

So waivers are set up to give us today and all day tomorrow to make a claim before they run. Then Sunday morning all players will be free agents unless they were just dropped.

CBS is set up to allow you to pick up a player and use them that day but it freezes 5 mins before the first game of the day.

I just re-read the rules again. I suggest everyone do the same.

Season 7 is underway!
 
1Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 16:09 		In the Draft Discussion thread, I posted all of teh draft pick trades for last year and removed them from CBS.

Not going to start up a separate recap thread, but feel free to post thoughts here if you'd like. I've not gone through everyone's draft, but during the draft I kept thinking of how well I liked Yokel's picks.
 
2Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 16:27 		Would there be a way to take all the picks from that draft thread and then resort them by owner? excel maybe? I'd love to see everyone's picks grouped together. Like all my picks in order etc.
 
3blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 16:32 		Great One, I have all the picks in Excel. I will send it to you in exchange for a mid-level pick.
 
4Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 16:37 		Treasurer's update:
Thanks to those of you who have already paid the dues (or told me that the check is in the mail.)

I have not yet heard or received anything from the following managers:

Allhair
Perm Dude
Slizz
Toral
Tosh
Yokel

Jaydog amd youngroman have joined the prize pool. Slizz still has to decide. So far, PD is the only one definitely not in the prize pool.

Please take care of this ASAP.


 
5Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 16:56 		Sorry Guru. Dues & Pool just sent via Paypal

 
6Perm Dude
      ID: 15327310
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 17:07 		Mailed you out a MO yesterday, Guru.
 
7Slackjawed Yokel
      Dude
      ID: 052347519
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 18:17 		I just sent a payment as well; thanks for the reminder.
 
8allhair allstars
      Sustainer
      ID: 50902421
      Fri, Apr 03, 2009, 20:49 		Check goes out tomorrow.
 
9beastiemiked
      ID: 40155223
      Sat, Apr 04, 2009, 13:50 		I'd like to call up Stewart and drop Kinney.
 
10Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Apr 04, 2009, 17:15 		[9] Stewart has been called up for the 3rd time and is no longer a prospect.
 
11Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Apr 05, 2009, 19:43 		First game is tonight at 8:00 ET. Make sure your lineups are set and legal.
 
12Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Mon, Apr 06, 2009, 16:33 		Guess I'm glad I couldn't give Salty away...
 
13Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Apr 06, 2009, 17:28 		Give?

Man I knew my pitchers weren't that great, but man this is worse than I thought. Hitters have been a mild surprise early.
 
14Great One
      ID: 4425722
      Mon, Apr 06, 2009, 18:56 		Yeah well he's hitting - but of course at the expense of my pitcher, figures lol...
 
15R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, Apr 07, 2009, 05:42 		I'd like to call up Brett Anderson, and drop Rafael Betancourt to make room.
 
16Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Apr 08, 2009, 11:34 		[15] Anderson has been called up for the first time.

Ref has called up Adenhart for the 2nd time.
 
17Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Apr 09, 2009, 11:30 		I was jsut getting ready to post that Adenhart has gotten some bad luck the past couple seasons as the team blows his wins, when I saw this on the top of the CBS site:

BREAKING NEWS Angels starting pitcher Nick Adenhart was killed in a hit-and-run accident early this morning after pitching in Wednesday night's game, according to several Internet news reports.
 
18Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Thu, Apr 09, 2009, 11:32 		Thats crazy. I was actually gonna add him in a couple leagues after looking at him this morning. To think he was gone by that time is eerie.
 
19Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Apr 09, 2009, 11:38 		I am keeping him as a prospect until it is confirmed.
 
20Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Apr 10, 2009, 17:17 		All dues payments have been received, except for Toral, and his is supposedly in the mail.

Thanks to all.
 
21Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 47227122
      Sun, Apr 12, 2009, 21:36 		I gotta stop trying to play matchups with my offense. Today I sat Vlad as he was going against Beckett, so of course he goes deep. A week into the season, I have 4 HR and 13 RBI on the bench (not to mention a save and a stolen base).
 
22blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, Apr 13, 2009, 01:06 		In a league like this, I don't think you can ever bench Vlad, perhaps even when he's not starting.

I am looking to trade some of my outfield depth. Is anyone interested in Jack Cust or Daniel Murphy? And still looking to deal Valverde.
 
23Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Apr 17, 2009, 11:26 		Still looking for some homers.
 
24Perm Dude
      ID: 24321178
      Sat, Apr 18, 2009, 01:02 		Our league is full of them, ref.
 
25Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Apr 18, 2009, 10:42 		So glad I decided to sit Kubel yesterday. :(
 
27Great One
      ID: 4425722
      Sat, Apr 18, 2009, 14:34 		Seriously, Species has like 5 Yankees!
 
28blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, Apr 18, 2009, 21:51 		I sat Asdrubal Cabrera today in RIBC, and only because Yunel was already locked at 12:10 when I went in to make the change. Fortunately, I left him active in G20.

I just noticed that I have a ton of OF/DH on my bench, some with serious skills. I really need to move some of them, so please give a look and let me know if you see anything that fits.
 
29R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Apr 20, 2009, 18:29 		Thats funny, Twarpy and I noticed them all as you drafted them in rounds 1 and 2. :p
 
30blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, Apr 21, 2009, 12:50 		I did include a shortstop in there. And so far, Ass Dribble is doing just fine.
 
31Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 10:18 		Its such a disadvantage to have guys on west coast teams when everything gets frozen before you know if they are in the lineup or not. I've lost many games played this season because of it.
 
32mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 16:08 		Re:31 That's been the biggest adjustment I've had to make in this
league.

All the rest of my leagues are in Yahoo and I'm programed to
check lineups 30 minutes before the start of any games played on
any given day.
 
33Peter N.
      ID: 50312418
      Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 19:02 		My pitching sucks.
 
34R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Apr 25, 2009, 07:15 		My pitching sucks worse.

Joe Mauer is on the block for SP or RP help.
 
35allhair allstars
      Sustainer
      ID: 50902421
      Sun, Apr 26, 2009, 09:32 		Pitchers? We use pitchers?
 
36Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Apr 27, 2009, 17:34 		My Ps are pretty bad too. My hitters aren't all that great either.
 
37beastiemiked
      ID: 40155223
      Mon, Apr 27, 2009, 22:59 		I've got a ton of Outfielders if anyone needs one.

Please call up Dexter Fowler, drop Wiggington.

 
38Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Apr 28, 2009, 00:40 		Fowler's 1st call-up.
 
39Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Apr 28, 2009, 23:01 		WooHoo!!! 17th place. Hopefully I won't be the first team to go first to worst.
 
40R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 02:02 		Trade Announcement

R9 gets:
Jose Valverde
Travis Hafner
BH 13th rounder (2010)
BH 14th rounder (2010)
BH 14th rounder (2011)

Hen gets:
R9 1st rounder (2010)
R9 3rd rounder (2010)
R9 1st round prospect pick (2010)
R9 4th rounder (2011)
 
41R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 02:05 		I'll drop

Ryan Perry, RP, DET
Scott Linebrink, RP, CHW

to make room for Valverde/Haffner.
 
42blue hen
      ID: 5826123
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 07:05 		Confirmed
 
43Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 14:23 		I think I got that deal documented correctly (pending league approval).
 
44Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 14:31 		Now THAT's a trade! R9 getting aggressive!
 
45blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 15:41 		Yeah, R9 and I have been talking about this for a while. And as it happened, my team kept getting worse and his team kept getting better. It's a natural trade.

And good to see R9 in contention. He always gives it a good effort, so hopefully these pieces will help him this year.
 
46Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 15:57 		Hope he's got Latroy Hawkins too.
 
47blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 15:59 		For 15 days. Always so quick to jump on. Where's the Olly comment?
 
48R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 16:18 		Slight correction, the prospect pick is for this year, not 2010. Got that mixed up with all the different years and picks.

Here's to hoping Valverde is back in the 10-15 days or so the team thinks he'll need.
 
49blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 16:39 		Confirmed. 2009 prospect pick.
 
50Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 16:59 		bh has given me his 1st and 2nd rounders for the next three years for Condrey.
 
51blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 17:01 		I'd do that for Chris Coste, but definitely not for Condrey.
 
52Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Apr 29, 2009, 17:02 		Damn.

I figured if he was just typing confirmed w/o reading things thoroughly I could get by with it. ;)
 
53blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Apr 30, 2009, 17:15 		(Retracting the trade offer in 51, before Ref types "confirmed.")



 
54Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, May 01, 2009, 11:57 		I don't have Coste so I couldn't! ;)

I dropped R9s players he stated to make his lineup legal. Threw in a DL P on his active lineup to take off the flag but he still has time to change that.
 
55Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, May 05, 2009, 10:22 		Guru has called up Andy LaRoche for the 2nd time and has sent down T. Snider.
 
56R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Tue, May 05, 2009, 10:39 		I'm sending down Brett Anderson.
 
57Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, May 05, 2009, 12:30 		[56] Re-added him, added a salary and dropped him again.

Remember that dropping them w/o having a salary attached would allow anyone to pick that player up when the went off waivers. Also, if they don't qualify as a prospect anymore, you lose his prospect rights--so dropping him would be like any other drop.

Species, Tosh and Guru are also able to help out with prospects.
 
58Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, May 05, 2009, 12:32 		So my team gets a little traction than hit with more players put on DL.
 
59Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 05, 2009, 13:10 		.....Teix with a mini-breakout. Turn the calendar, and he finally gets going with 2 HR's.....but is still hitting .195.

BJ Upton hitting .152. Ugly.

Alex Rodriguez hasn't had an at bat.

I have to believe there is hope at the end of this rainbow.....now if my pitching can just hold steady.
 
60Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 11:46 		Now Manny gone. The fantasy gods are against me this year. Must be Karma for all those winning season.
 
61Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 12:49 		Damn vultures!

Getting trade offers galore for Manny already.
 
62Perm Dude
      ID: 21453619
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 13:13 		Worth a shot.

:)
 
63Perm Dude
      ID: 21453619
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 13:22 		And, to be fair, it wasn't a terrible offer.
 
64Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 14:35 		Disagree. Platoon player for arguably the best hitter in baseball when my team has no chance to win? With my season in shambles, I am not even looking to move him--esp. for a non-keeper. Thanks for the offer though. Like you said, worth a shot. Btw, I like the guy you offered.
 
65Perm Dude
      ID: 19424713
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 14:58 		Hah! Ludwick has the same number of AB as Manny. Is Manny a "platoon" player?

:)

Just to make it clear, I thought you'd consider it for two reasons:

-it is far too early to mail it in for this season. Ludwick will beat Manny in all counting stats, and come close on others (last year they had the same number of dingers, FYI);

-Ludwick is 7 years younger than Manny.

Straight up Ludwick for Manny, assuming both are playing you gotta go with Manny without a doubt. But Manny's gone for the next 1/3 of the season.
 
66blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 15:03 		Ref, that is ridiculous, even for you.

Platoon player for arguably the best hitter in baseball

Are you sure we're talking about Ryan Ludwick and Manny Ramirez right here? I know you love to hump your own guys and drop a deuce on everyone else's but that's a pretty ludicrous statement, even if this wasn't a deep keeper league.
 
67Perm Dude
      ID: 19424713
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 15:05 		Great. BH agrees with me. I've gotta re-think the whole thing now...
 
68Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 15:05 		The Cardinals had been rotating four outfielders all season before Ankiel's injury, along with left fielder Chris Duncan and right fielder Ryan Ludwick.
 
69R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 15:13 		They both have the same AB's, now thats hilarious. :p
 
70Slizz
      ID: 4444714
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 15:18 		BH - I am in agreement with Ref. Why would he trade the games' premier hitter for a guy who platoons with Colby Rasmus, Chris Duncan, & Rick Ankiel??

Not to mention his stats last year were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY inflated due to batting in front of Pujols. He now hits in the 5th slot as opposed to the 3rd slot, so I would expect a "slight" dip in those #'s.

If you don't believe me that batting in front of a premier player like Pujols affects stats, see how O-Dog is doing this year with that protection and see how Papi is doing without the protection. Shoot, even look at Albert Belle with and without Manny.

Also, there has to be a reason that he didnt make the show until he was 28...not to kill the guy b/c I drafted him in some of my leagues, but straight up for Manny? I don't know.

To be fair, it wasn't a bad offer by any stretch. It was a progressive owner trying to capitalize on the loss of Manny for 50 games. Can a deal get done?

Yes, but I think the party offering up Ludwick would need to offer more for Manny.

 
71Perm Dude
      ID: 19424713
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 15:21 		:)

The Cards had been shuffling LF and CF. Ludwick has been a mainstay in RF, however, missing 5 games only this season (4 in the first 2 weeks).

I'm happy to have him. And happy ref has a hole in his roster until July.

: 0
 
72Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 16:41 		I'm happy that you're happy, PD.

I have not solicited any offers for Manny. I have not countered any offers for Manny. Am not positioning myself to get a better deal for Manny. Am not planning to trade Manny.

We all view players differently and typically people view their players higher than others. If we all viewed players the same way, all the subjectivity would be gone and things would be boring.

bh is on crack again. Must be learning the slang in the streets when he goes to get his fix. ;)

As far as having a hole in my lineup. Well it's not like I'm going to leave an active slot open. You have to rememebr that the player(s) that fill that hole will also mitigate the difference in counting stats. I like Ludwick, but my platoon point was that he doesn't even start every day while Manny is one of the premiere hitters in baseball. Ludwick for Manny (-50 games) straight up? Not in my book. Especially, when I have little chance to win the league this season. Manny has missed games with hammy and other issues and you know he'd miss some of those 50 games anyhow.

I have no issues with people being happy my team sucks this year with all my past successes. But to get all hyped up because I rejected a trade? Now that's pretty funny. There is a lot I don't know and am wrong a lot, but I've been known to be right a few times as well. I think I've earned the benefit of the doubt in my strategy.
 
73Perm Dude
      ID: 19424713
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 17:27 		I don't know that people are hyped. I think we're bored, and this looks like a good time to trash talk.

Slizz: We need to nip this "platoon" rumor in the bud. Ludwick has played 25 games, all in right field. He hasn't platooned with anyone (neither Ankiel nor Duncan have played a single game in RF this year). Rasmus replaced Ludwick on his 5 days off in RF, but 4 of them were in the first 2 weeks of the season.
 
74Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 17:47 		[69] Yeah, Manny has been injured and missed games. Has the same number of ABs as Ludwick--but look at all the walks, SFs and HBP Manny has that aren't included? I could go into the fact that he doesn't have to bat in the bottom of the 9th as the Dodgers don't need that inning--but I won't go there. Oops...too late! ;)

From Rotoworld:
Ryan Ludwick-OF- Cardinals Apr. 22 - 6:01 pm et
Ryan Ludwick is not in the Cardinals' starting lineup again on Wednesday.
We understand that Tony La Russa is trying to find playing time for four starting-caliber outfielders, but it makes little sense that he's now benching his second-best hitter for the fourth time in 15 games. On a positive note, La Russa said that Ludwick will start each of the next four games, but on most other teams that would be a foregone conclusion. Colby Rasmus is getting the start in right field on Wednesday.

Note: not in first two weeks of season. PHing or late game replacement in some of those games apparently. I am not a Cards' follower and I do like Ludwick. I am not saying he is a bad player. But even winning, I've been known to hold players who have missed a great deal of time. GO offered me the kitchen sink for Hafner last year while he was hurt. (Blew that one!)
 
75Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 17:49 		Kudos to PD for at least being out there shaking the bushes.

I wouldn't make that trade if I were Ref either, but it wasn't an insulting offer if one assumes Ref has a chance to win or do well this year.

It does bring up an interesting quandry in this league: when you have an aging superstar, when do you take the risk of trading him as he's on a decline as opposed to having them fade into oblivion for nothing? It's hard to trade away a stud still putting up stud numbers, but you risk their value nosediving once father time decides that time is up.
 
76blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, May 07, 2009, 18:01 		That's what separates the good managers from the great ones. I think we all strive for that in every keeper league. I still have David Ortiz in another league.

And by the way, it's easy to deal Hafner, I hear.
 
77Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, May 11, 2009, 08:38 		...and two more go down. What a crazy season.
 
78blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Mon, May 11, 2009, 13:31 		Hey, some people draft for talent, some people draft for health... I'll take Soria off your hands if you like.
 
79Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, May 11, 2009, 16:08 		Well your team should have a lot of health! ;)
 
80Peter N.
      ID: 14471318
      Wed, May 13, 2009, 19:10 		Ref, you have alot of courage starting Washburn @Tex. Good Luck. ;-)

Side Note: I have called up Maybin twice. If I was to send him down, the next time I call him up I'd lose prospect rights on him. Correct?
 
81Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 14, 2009, 11:20 		I was going to drop Washburn but he was getting ready to start so I figured I might as well. The cupboard is pretty bare. Getter Ervin finally this year might help.

If Maybin hasn't hit his threshold yet, he can be sent dwon one more time. Therefore, the next time you call him up (or he hits his threshold at one of the checkpoints while still sent down) he will lose prospect status.
 
82blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, May 14, 2009, 12:21 		Do you really even want Maybin at this point?
 
83Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, May 15, 2009, 11:33 		I called up Brandon Moss for the first time. But he's over the threshold so I lose him as a prospect.
 
84Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, May 15, 2009, 11:56 		CBS just added a college player--which by rule is ineligible to be picked up. I am going to add a salary to him. This has never happened before. I am not sure how else to handle this or even if I can take the salary off before our prospect draft.
 
85Slizz
      ID: 4444714
      Fri, May 15, 2009, 16:46 		lol @ bh.
 
86blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, May 15, 2009, 17:06 		Lots of people laugh at me. You'll have to be more specific about your motivation for laughing.
 
87Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, May 15, 2009, 17:09 		Your musculature is one reason.
 
88blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, May 16, 2009, 00:36 		That's a very cromulant word, Speece. I think you made it up. And I said there were many reasons. I'm not looking for a roll call of the many. I want to know which particular one caused this strife.

Man, Asdrubal is looking pretty good, isn't he?
 
89Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, May 16, 2009, 11:57 		Well Species communicated with everyone. Your Thesaurus doesn't always effectively communicate.

Perhaps we should think about instituting a rule that doesn't allow players just drafted in MLB draft and added to CBS to be picked up until after our prospect draft? Might take some diligence to monitor it--but it rarely happens. Still with CBS adding a college player--it may have forced our hand.
 
90slizz-blackberry
      ID: 34141612
      Sat, May 16, 2009, 13:14 		Re: 86 - the point about keeping maybin at this point...

As for asdrubal...definitely a pleasant surprise along aaron hill.

To this point - who is the biggest disappointment this season?

Ill nominate Rollins or Holliday! Lol
 
91blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, May 16, 2009, 18:08 		Holliday for sure.

As for college players, I think our rules are pretty concrete about it. If someone is in the database, and you pick them up, and hold them as something other than a prospect, that's allowed. Right?
 
92Perm Dude
      ID: 174121611
      Sat, May 16, 2009, 19:49 		C'mon--lots of disappointments this year: Cliff Lee, Lance Berkman, Jake Peavy, Cole Hamels, Josh Beckett, Mark Teixeira, Hideki Matsui, Manny's Pharmacist...
 
93Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, May 16, 2009, 21:26 		91: You are not allowed to pick up a college player. CBS idiotically added a college player to the db. So now we're kinda stuck. Do we let him loose to have a free for all when he is drafted by an MLB team? Do we hold him out until the prospect draft? What about other players who are drafted and added to the db in the meantime? CBS makes no sense. Many people are mad at them and they try to justfy it because they think he is different.
 
94Peter N.
      ID: 50312418
      Sun, May 17, 2009, 05:53 		If anyone has a one-trick pony for steals, let me know. I have Maybin plus plenty of picks available.
 
95Perm Dude
      ID: 174121611
      Sun, May 17, 2009, 10:10 		#93: CBS were certainly being idiots adding him. I thought they they were limited, by contract, to only using players who were members of the MLBPA.

Many leagues probably have no rules in place for this kind of situation, so this throws a wrench into a lot of league transactions.

 
96Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, May 17, 2009, 12:23 		95: Agreed

I am still unsure exactly what to do. I amnot sure if anyone else saw him and wanted to pick him up on thurs or fri morn when he would have been available but I picked up Strassbug and put a salary on him and threw him back and posted here. I also posted on the site in commish box that he was ineligble to be picked up and that this first week the move would eb reversed but after that he would simply be removed from teh team. Of course BH claims him even after we've been discussing it here.

I am not sure if everyone understands what's going on, but the draft is like June 9th or so, Our prospect draft is during the all star break in July. By our current rules, you can't even draft a player who is in college--let alone pick him up. Yet for the first time ever, CBS has added a college player and assuming he will play for Washington since they have the first pick (and they have said they will draft him). Prospect draftees do NOT have to be in the db. But our regular draft and obviously to pick up a player during the season--they do have to be in the db. Now we have a player in the db who is not eligible to be picked up. The problem is that once he is drafted and in the db, he would be eligible to be picked up (not sure our rules cover if he's still pitching in college though at that point). Hence the dilemma...do we allow Strasburg (and others) to be picked up as soon as they are in the db or do we now institute a rule (because of CBS' dealing with Strasburg) that makes those drafted players off-limits until after the prospect draft.

We did add a rule in our 2nd prospect season that does not allow a pick-up of ANY prospect eligible player to be picked up after the last freeze before the prospect draft. A couple people added prospect to their main team because they weren't going to be able to draft them.

I guess my proposal is that no one be allowed to pick up any player drafted in that year's June draft from being picked up until after the prospect draft has concluded. A non-drafted prospect-eligible player would still be able to be picked up until that freeze before that draft.
 
97Great One
      ID: 4352817
      Sun, May 17, 2009, 13:12 		Back from Alaska... I think Ludwick for Manny was a solid offer as well, especially with Manny being suspended, having to come off the PED's and being old of course with not more than a couple years ahead of him.

Also need to rethink this or something cause being a boat driven by Blue Hen and PD is a scary thought! lol...

 
98Great One
      ID: 4352817
      Sun, May 17, 2009, 13:13 		Also agree that Ludwick is not a platoon player, a guy thats gonna play 150 games in a season (barring injury) is not a platoon player.
 
99blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, May 17, 2009, 22:15 		Note: I picked up Strasburg because I was physically able to. I have been under the assumption I'll have to drop him, but I figured that since I didn't see a rule specifically prohibiting him, it was worth the spot. Ref, you're the commish; make the call. But make it based on an existing rule, which I didn't see (but quite easily could have missed).

That said, how likely is it that Strasburg would be one of my top 9 keepers? All this really does is screws up the prospect draft.

And for the record, I do support a rule that amateurs are off limits.

And yes, stupid CBS.
 
100R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 04:32 		I guess my proposal is that no one be allowed to pick up any player drafted in that year's June draft from being picked up until after the prospect draft has concluded. A non-drafted prospect-eligible player would still be able to be picked up until that freeze before that draft.

This.

Which is probably a rule we should've had in the first place, since
A couple people added prospect to their main team (right before the prospect draft) because they weren't going to be able to draft them
is really not in the spirit of the prospect draft imho.
 
101Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 10:36 		97: We can agree to disagree. I like my Pierre pick for free and then will get Manny back July 3rd. I don't buy into all this age stuff as much that many of you do, obviously.

100: Right. It protects the integrit yof the prospect draft.

Does anyone NOT feel that we should implement this proposal? Note that we may need help identifying these players as they are added to the db to protect them from being picked up before the prospect draft.
 
102Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 13:47 		What if the rule was that you can't keep a player that is not on a major league team (or assigned to a minor league affiliate) and you can also not choose them for the prospect draft? Would that eliminate motivation to pick them up?
 
103Perm Dude
      ID: 174121611
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 14:35 		Aren't we allowed to draft Japanese players? I'd thought that our player draft pool was limited to professional players only--(if true) this seems to be a standard we should keep.
 
104Great One
      ID: 46215212
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 15:14 		Forgot about them... I also wonder if Ricky Henderson was attempting another comeback and was playing for an Independent League team if he would be in the database or not.
 
105Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 16:42 		102: If I understad you right, that still hurts the prospect draft. If you own that player, you should be able to decide if you want to keep them or not. Tracking that would also stink. The prospect draft allows you to draft japanese, cuban or any other pro player--whether on a mlb team, drafted, mlb player unsigned or independant pro baseball.

Ricky Henderson wouldn't be eligible to be drafted as a prospect, but if he was in the db, you could pick him up.

103: I think you're missing the point. We are NOT changing the prospect draft whatsoever. The Strasburg issue begs the question on why we allow players just drafted and haphazardly entered into the CBS db (making them eligible to be picked up on your team on WW or FA) allowed to be picked up and short-circuit the draft. It has happend a few times as R9 pointed out. My suggestion is that those players only--be protected for the prospect draft. They aren't going to be playing before the draft anyhow--most won't play for a year or two, etc.
 
106Perm Dude
      ID: 174121611
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 17:03 		I'm not missing the point of the problem of CBS, but I might be missing the point of the suggested solutions.

Don't we already have the ability to pick up players who are otherwise prospect-eligible to be picked up on the waiver wire? Putting aside the question of why this one guy is even in the database, there are all sorts of guys on the ww who might be picked up in the prospect draft right now. My understanding is that we can pick one of these guys up right now, provided that they aren't on another prospect roster (and therefore have a salary attached), yes?
 
107Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 18:07 		PD - yes, you are correct. There is no rule prohibiting us from having someone in the CBS database that is on a minor league team on our roster. I don't believe (and I'm not saying this is what you mean) we have any disagreement with that rule staying as is. The only "rule" affecting that is the rule that states that if you drop a player that is Prospect Draft-eligible within 7 days of the prospect draft that YOU (i.e. - the team that dropped him) cannot draft him in the prospect draft.

The great thing about the timing of our prospect draft is that it has always been AFTER the MLB draft.....so until Strasburg CBS never bothered to put anyone into the database.

I don't think there is a soul in this league that would disagree with the sentiment that it was never the intention of the league to allow the picking up of an amateur player (college or HS) without them being drafted to a major league team. The Japanese players are professionals and the Cuban players, while technically amateurs, add a unique aire of excitement/risk in that they may never make it to the US to begin with.
 
108blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, May 18, 2009, 21:51 		I think there's a difference between what the rule should be (which I think we all agree on) and what the rule actually was when Twarpy picked up Strasburg. Do we have a rule in place right now that says amateur players are ineligible?
 
109Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 00:59 		Twarpy didn't pick up Strasburg. I picked him up and added a salary to him (I can't circumbent the rules on my own team so I had to add him to another team as it went over 23 players). The only person who picked him up was Blue Hen after the fact. I added the salary as soon as I saw what happened.

The WHOLE point is that after the MLB draft, CBS will add some of those guys drafted arbitrarily. Then someone can claim them if they figure they can't draft them. It has happened before. We weren't realy able to stop it before. But now, with Strasburg being protected with a salary, why is it that he can't be picked up by the first to the computer or wtih a waiver claim after the MLB draft and before the prospect draft and others might be? Or I simply release him to waivers and let someone claim him and take him out of the p-draft sometime after the MLB draft.

Again, this would ONLY be for players just drafted by MLB approx a month before our prospect draft. And remember, there IS a lottery for the prospect draft so anyone in 7th to 20th place is eligible to land one of the top three picks.
 
110blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 10:26 		Species did that with Gamel last season.
 
111Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 11:22 		109 clarification: I added the salary to him as soon as he was added to the db. I removed him fro BH's team as soon as he picked him up a few days later.
 
112Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 11:52 		Species did that with Gamel last season.

....and I've done that for years while I was building. For the 2006 prospect draft I probably owned 5 of the top 25 prospects at that time.....which included Hanley Ramirez, at the time a highly touted but lowly-performing AA shortstop. In the subsequent offseason I traded him in a package for Victor Martinez. So it was worth it.

I had hoped Gamel could have some semblance of similar value going into this season but it was not to be since the dude can't field.

There's a big difference between picking someone up and holding them all year (as I did with Gamel) and picking someone up, eliminating them from Prospect Draft eligibility, and dropping them sometime (soon) thereafter.
 
113blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 13:19 		First of all, I think what you did with Gamel was fine. Sly, but fine. That's what makes you a good manager.

For the Gamel situation, I'd be fine with a rule that said if you picked up a prospect eligible player within two months of the prospect draft, you had to keep him for two months after.

But right now, there is no such rule, so it's perfectly legal to pick up a guy 7 days before and drop him immediately after the prospect draft.

Which is also what confuses me about Strasburg is that I haven't seen a rule saying college players in the database were ineligible to be picked up. Can someone quote that rule for me (since it obviously exists)?
 
114blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 13:21 		Also, I'm looking to deal Jose Tabata in advance of the prospect draft. If you'll upgrade a 2010 pick for me, you can have him.
 
115Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 14:25 		Which is also what confuses me about Strasburg is that I haven't seen a rule saying college players in the database were ineligible to be picked up. Can someone quote that rule for me (since it obviously exists)?

Technically, in my interpretation of the rules, there isn't a rule that would specifically forbid the pickup of Strasburg, because in the writing of the rules it was never conceived that an amateur player would be added to the CBS database before he was ever drafted to a major league team/signed by a major league team.

One MIGHT be able to make the case that the "player pool" definition of "AL and NL Players" would then exclude an amateur player.....since they are not part of ANY AL or NL team/farm system. But that could be considered flimsy.......but then again, a claim that Strasburg is eligible as an amateur solely because he is in the database is just as flimsy.

Our Prospect Draft rules are very clear:

"A draft-eligible prospect is defined as a hitter that has less than 150 AB or a pitcher with less than 55 IP or 20 GP and has not been on your active roster within one week prior to the draft. They do not need to be in CBS player database, but can not be still in high school/college, etc. They need to either be on a pro team, drafted by a team, or a current free agent/professional Japanese or Cuban player."

The intent of that rule was to ensure that potential superstars with big pedigrees (say Prince Fielder) weren't taken while still in High School (for example). Or the next Michael Inoa wasn't taken before he ever signed a pro contract. Since we did craft that rule specifically for our league, there is no doubt that the definition was also intended towards players on our active rosters as well....even if the rules do not formally say so.
 
116Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 14:32 		Ohhhhhh......reading it again I sense that you are making a comparison of Strasburg and Gamel and the picking up of Gamel because he was in the database?

The obvious difference is that Gamel was a professional player and could have been called up any day to be active (and was rumored to be a possibility).
 
117Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 14:36 		...and people wonder why are rules are so long and detailed as is...

Rule as quoted in Prospect Draft Rules:
...but can not be still in high school/college, etc. They need to either be on a pro team, drafted by a team, or a current free agent/professional Japanese or Cuban player.

CBS has never (nor any other site to my knowledge) has added an undrafted amateur player to the db. Now, based on our prospect rules, if CBS added a current Japanese or Cuban player (who are INELIGIBLE to be drafted in the MLB draft), then those players WOULD be eligible to be claimed if CBS added them to the db early.

There is no way Strasbug will be allowed to be claimed by a team before the MLB draft.

Here are the three options I have to consider:

1. Take the salary off of him after he is drafted in the MLB draft and put him on waivers for anyone to claim.
2. Because of this issue, bar him from being picked up unless he goes undrafted in our prospect draft.
3. Disallow anyone drafted in the MLB draft from being picked up until after the prospect draft.

Choice #3 Makes the most sense to me and protects the integrity of our prospect draft. Considering that CBS may only add a handful of them anyhow and who's to say which ones they add and when? For instance, in the prospect draft, I drafted the overall #1 pick and he wasn't in the db until preseason this year. Yet others drafted much lower were in there. Choice #2 doesn't make sense because other drafted players will be added so how is it ok for Strasburg to be the only one protected? I am not sure how many of us even knew he was available when I picked him up, added the salary and released him.

So it comes down to this, either we add the rule to our prospects (Choice 3), or Strasbug's salary will be removed sometime after the draft (choice 1) and whoever wants him can claim him or anyone else drafted and in the CBS db.

Again, this has no bearing on any other prospect-eligible player who is already in the db and drafted in earlier seasons.
 
118blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 15:26 		There. That's what I was looking for. Thanks guys.

And I support #3.
 
119Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 16:29 		I like #3.

And a rule should be crafted/added to our "active roster eligibility" definition to avoid the "Strasburg loophole" from ever happening again.
 
120Great One
      ID: 4352817
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 18:05 		and you have to be a professional to be picked up? or was that already established?
 
121blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 18:17 		What about the JD Drew situation? Or the Pedro Alvarez?
 
122Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Tue, May 19, 2009, 19:16 		I like the intent of #3. I have a question about it, though.

It would not apply to Strasburg right now, because, whatever anyone's intentions, Strasburg has not yet been drafted in the MLB draft, and so is not covered by the rule.

Three separate things need to be done: 1. Forbid the pickups of the eligible pre-draft. 2. Forbid the pickups of the MLB-drafted, pre-prospect drsft. 3. Provide that those covered by the rules, if by mistake are on a G20 roster at the time of the prospect draft, may still be selected and the G20 manager loses the rights.

I am not quite sure what words chould be substituted for "anyone drafted in the MLB draft" in Rule 3 as Ref has it.

"anyone eligible for the MLB draft before it occurs or selected in the MLB draft"?

"anyone added to the CBS data base in the apparent expectation that he will be drafted in the MLB draft, or having been drafted in the MLB draft"? A little too fancy?

A slightly different way of dealing with the problem, which deals with CBS oddities, but also ends the current rule gap (a.k.a. the Gamel rule):

"Any player on a [G20] roster who has just been drafted in the MLB draft remains eligible for the prospect draft and must be released from his G20 team as soon as possible after being drafted in the prospect draft."

Removes commissioners from having all responsibility for recognizing and neutralizing future Strasburgs if CBS starts doing this more. Repeals Gamel rule.

I don't think there's anything that wrong with aticking with Ref's wording, I guess. I'm just uncomfortable with "we all know what we meant" situations.

Toral
 
123Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 09:23 		122: Strasburg is covered by an existing rule as both Species and I posted earlier.

Three separate things need to be done: 1. Forbid the pickups of the eligible pre-draft. 2. Forbid the pickups of the MLB-drafted, pre-prospect drsft. 3. Provide that those covered by the rules, if by mistake are on a G20 roster at the time of the prospect draft, may still be selected and the G20 manager loses the rights.

1-2. No prosect eligible player may be picked up after the freeze on Sunday before the draft until after the prospect draft is complete right now. We've reversed those picks in the past. This current proposal basically extends that by about a month but this time ONLY players JUST drafted in MLB draft that June.
3. Agreed. In fact, if we notice a player has been picked up illegally, we would immediately remove that player from the team. It would be highly unusual that the player would ever be in a MLB game by that time anyhow. We'd like to get a salary on them so the team's lineup is flagged as well.

Also, I have options set up that emails me each day for illegal lineups. Now sometimes those flagged illegal are within our rules. At times they are simply going short an active pitcher spot or DH spot or a roster spot short for a day. I go back in and move a player not playing in their lineup so it removes the flag, etc. Also once you send someone down and re-add the salary, CBS flags your lineup as illegal for the days you had him in there. Flawed system, but as long as we don't make their lineups automatically score 0, it's fine. If someone ever does have an illegal lineup, I can penalize it individually.
 
124Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 12:08 		Ref 123: No doubt I'm just missing it but I can't find any such rule being quoted in this thread, or stated in the rules themselves. You quote a rule specifying that a college player is ineligible for the prospect draft, but not one that says he is ineligible to be picked up if in the CBS database. There's no necessary relation between the two.

Likewise Species' last comment on the subject I can find is
Technically, in my interpretation of the rules, there isn't a rule that would specifically forbid the pickup of Strasburg, because in the writing of the rules it was never conceived that an amateur player would be added to the CBS database before he was ever drafted to a major league team/signed by a major league team.

So what is the rule covering Strasburg, again? I should add that I agree with neutralizing this guy under some excuse or another (an unstated but implied "best-interests-of-the-keague rule? a defence of necessity?) but if we're adding a rule it would be best to clean up the situation.

Toral

 
125Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 13:44 		So what is the rule covering Strasburg, again? I should add that I agree with neutralizing this guy under some excuse or another (an unstated but implied "best-interests-of-the-keague rule? a defence of necessity?) but if we're adding a rule it would be best to clean up the situation.

Later in the post you quoted, the rules state that the player pool is "AL and NL players". Strasburg, as an amateur, is neither. I noted that this may be a flimsy technicality, as a minor league player is not technically an AL or NL player, but they are under contract to an AL or NL team at least.

I agree that the rule clarifying prospect eligibility does not specifically forbid the pickup of Strasburg. But I also think most of us agree that, at a minimum it was our intention or at least in the spirit of the rule to also apply to a situation like Strasburg's.

Ref - I will be happy to write up a few rule clarifications for consideration and voting that will address these issues. Quite simply, I presume we want to:

1 - For team rosters:
Clarify who is eligible to be picked up onto team rosters: that they must both be in the player database and drafted by or signed by a professional team. This would also clarify that Japanese, Cuban or other international players in the database that are not yet signed by a professional team are also ineligible until they sign.

2 - For the Prospect Draft:
Any MLB draft-eligible players available to be drafted in the June MLB draft may not be picked up if they become available in the CBS database until the completion of the Prospect Draft of that year. The exception to this rule would be legitimately drafted players from the previous year (i.e. JD Drew, Aaron Crow) who were properly drafted in the Prospect Draft the year of their original drafting may continue to have their prospect rights owned by their original team.

Any other thoughts as to what to include in these new, clarifying rules?
 
126Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 13:47 		124: Right it's covered in the Prospect draft situation and posted in 115 and 117. I see what you are saying though. There are some issues in the Prospect Draft rules that also govern the overall rules and roster issues and not only for the prospect draft.

I "neutralized" him because it has always been our intention to never let this type of thing happen and it was even spelled out in the prospect section. I've always tried to make the rules as concise as possible while still trying to cover loopholes. Also, you wouldn't believe how often I have to go back and re-read them myself--so I can imagine how others would have a hard time remembering them or trying to figure out where a specific rule lies.

Basically, the prospect draft is more liberal than our Supplemental draft and FA/WW guidelines and even in the P-draft we don't allow Strasburg to be drafted when he was put into the db. So, if there is any question whether we have an existing rule covering it or not--then I made him off-limits in our best interest rule. CBS is trying to defend themselves in adding him and people aren't buying it.

As far as the actual wording goes. It's whatever sounds good to the league. Just because I know what it means doesn't nec. mean everyone else does--but we've worked hard to take out the ambiguity. I don't mind explaining rules when asked. I just ask that we all take time to read them first when possible.
 
127Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 13:58 		Further to the JD Drew/Aaron Crow example...does it make sense to further clarify in our prospect rules that any player who was legitimately drafted in our Prospect Draft but fails to sign with the team that drafted them may continue to have their prospect rights retained by the drafting team?

This applies to HS seniors that are drafted but don't sign, College Juniors/draft-eligible Sophomores who return to school as well as Japanese professionals or Cuban players.
 
128Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 14:02 		125: I don't think we have an exception at all. JD Drew and Hochevr and several others WERE drafted. Just because they didn't sign and were drafted again has no bearing. Once they are drafted by an MLB team (as long as they don't go back to school and retain their amateur status) they are eligible to be picked up after the prospect draft. So if they want to hold out and play independant ball--then they are eligible to be picked up onto your roster after that year's prospect draft.
 
129Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 14:03 		Man species we seem to be onthe same wavelength. You post while I am still writing and your post has been stating/asking the same things I am talking about. ;)
 
130Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 14:08 		This has never happend in our Pdraft, but I guess if we do draft a player and he decides to go back to college instead of playing pro ball--the team should lose that prospect. Generally prospects are picked who we think will be in the majors soon. Now there are exceptions to that as we all have different strategies or different points when our team will come together, but I hadn't considered someone like that either. Guess we should have as players sometimes threaten going back to school in their contract negotiations.
 
131Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 14:19 		I'll skip discussing the "AL - NL player pool" theory since the ruling itself doesn't seem to be in dispute and suggest that you take this opportunity to add a clarifying rule that covers the situation in plain English.


 
132Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, May 20, 2009, 17:34 		Ref #130 -- I'm not sure I agree. There is really no difference in drafting a HS player who signs and one who doesn't in regards to when they arrive in the majors. If that draftee who doesn't sign is still a good prospect, they will be drafted high once they have been in college 3 years and be in the big leagues roughly as quickly as they would if they signed out of HS.

And we have had players (Hochevar, Crow) who were college players that were drafted, drafted in our Pdraft but went back to school/independent ball for a year and got (or in Crow's case, will) redrafted and the team has not lost their rights to them. Why should it be that way for a HS stud who shuns pro ball to go to college? They were legitimately drafted within our Pdraft rules.

IMO, like with a Japanese or Cuban player who has not signed with a MLB team (Darvish), the risk/reward benefit is on the team owner to occupy a valuable prospect slot on an unknown. I personally don't want to limit that.
 
133Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 00:32 		132: I guess I didn't realize that someone was drafted in the pdraft and went back to college. Drew and Hochevar did not go back and played pro ball outside of the major leagues. So they are eligible by existing rules. The problem is that we draft before they go back to school, so am surprised it hadn't happened before. I guess if they are eligible to be drafted and they are drafted--then that manager should be able to keep that player on their prospect list.
 
134Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 11:21 		133: Thinking it over, Crow didn't go back to school, and obviously neither Drew nor Hochevar did either. Still, IMO, as long as they are eligible to be drafted, are drafted, and are legally drafted in our Pdraft, I see no reason to have a manager lose their rights to them.

I'll whip up some proposed rule change language before lunchtime.
 
135Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 13:15 		First draft of rules additions/clarifications as per this discussion. I suggest a separate section above the "Supplemental Draft" section as follows:

Active Roster and Supplemental Draft Eligiblity:
To be eligible to be either on your active roster or be taken in the Supplemental Draft, all players must adhere to the following conditions:
- Be in the CBS database
- Be eligible to be picked up immediately
- Be signed to a MLB team (minor leaguers are okay)
- In the case of a player taken in the June MLB draft, all such players are deemed to be off limits from being picked up as a free agent until the completion of the Prospect Draft of that year.

This would eliminate the following players from being drafted or picked up:
- Amateurs subject to the MLB draft
- Japanese professional players not signed by a MLB team
- Cuban or other international players not signed by a MLB team
 
136Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 13:18 		Reading that again, perhaps the 3rd line from the bottom line should read:

"Amateurs and independent pro ball players subject to the MLB draft"

......to cover the JD Drew/Hochevar/Crows of the world.
 
137Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 14:47 		JD Drew and Hochevar were drafted in the MLB BEFORE they played independant ball. They are fair game whether they get drafted in the MLB again or not.

Scenario: Hochevar was taken with the 40th overall pick (1st round) in 2005 by LAD. He was eligible for our pdraft. He wasn't selected. So he is a free agent for anyone in G20 to pick up at anytime (as long as he was in the db). In 2006 the Royals take him with the first overall pick. Still no one picked him up--even though he was eligible (if he was in the db) until our roster freeze of prospects just before and during our draft. I ended up drafting him in the pdraft as he was still eligible to be drafted. I know of at least one player who was drafted twice in our pdrafts (Kendry Morales).

The main problem with CBS is there is no systematic approach to which minor leaguers get added when. If they are on the 40 man roster, they are likely to be in there--but there are teenagers in rookie ball who get added sometime after they are drafted. Yet some AAA players aren't in there. Going through them in preseason, I think there wre only 2 or 3 who were not in the db. After the draft, probably half weren't in there.

I don't think the prospects have played a very big role in our game at all. It does have a small part and gives managers trading and strategy options. I just don't want to spend much more time on this issue. CBS created this issue, but perhaps we can use it to help prevent anyone from taking advantage of the pdraft by picking up players they can't get in the pdraft. It rarely happens--but it has and on more than one occassion.
 
138Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 15:06 		Btw, typically, no one would be able to take them because those players aren't signed and would not be in the CBS db. But CBS changed everything with Strasburg.
 
139Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 15:10 		- Be signed to a MLB team (minor leaguers are okay)

What's wrong with free agents? Say a vet who has been squabbling with his team and maybe suspended and suddenly is unconditionally released but likely to be picked up by someone.

Or just regular free agents. I took a free agent in the "Supplemental Draft" and I imagine it's been done many times.

I would separate Active Roster and Supplemental Fraft elibility into separate sections even if it means some repetition. At frat time your eye would be drawn immediately to the one section; in regular season to the other.
 
140Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 15:35 		Free Agents are fine.

The wording as we already have it is fine, we just need to clarify non-amateurs and add the banning of players JUST drafted in the MLB draft.

Supp draft elig and FA/WW elig are the same.
 
141Toral
      ID: 575542418
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 17:21 		Supp draft elig and FA/WW elig are the same

Ref, you are continually misunderstainding what I am saying.

I was referring to Species' proposed draft.

The two eligibilities are not the same there, as there is a rule that needs to be stated for one but not the other. That makes the two things different, not the same. By definition. Unavoidably.
 
142Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 18:47 		Fair point about "veteran" free agents, like Pedro Martinez as another example.

What about this:

Active Roster and Supplemental Draft Eligiblity:
To be eligible to be either on your active roster or be taken in the Supplemental Draft, all players must adhere to the following conditions:
- Be in the CBS database
- Be eligible to be picked up immediately
- In the case of a player taken in the June MLB draft, all such players are deemed to be off limits from being picked up as a free agent until the completion of the Prospect Draft of that year.

Exceptions: The following players are ineligible from being drafted or picked up:
- Amateurs subject to the MLB draft
- Japanese professional players not signed by a MLB team
- Cuban or other international players not signed by a MLB team
 
143Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, May 21, 2009, 21:29 		141: No I understood what you wre saying and agreed with you. All I was saying is we didn't ened to rewrite anything just add a clarification about no amateurs and then add the new prospect proposal. If it is too ambiguous and needs re-writing for everyone to understand it then so be it.
 
144Peter N.
      ID: 7415229
      Fri, May 22, 2009, 10:15 		Goatlocker, Trade offer is on your desk. Let me know what you think.
 
145mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Thu, May 28, 2009, 11:41 		Trade Announcement

Species gets Mariano Rivera and mjd's 10th round 2010 pick.

mjd gets Species prospect Justin Heyward and Species 5th round
2010 pick.

I tried to accept this trade via the CBS site, but the only options
given were "Evaluate Trade" or "Make Offer". Not sure what
hapened, but I was not given an "Accept Trade" option.
 
146Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 28, 2009, 12:03 		Damned rookies. And damned CBS interface.

You needed to hit "Evaluate Trade"....which would then take you to the page where you could accept. I will re-propose.....but dammit that cost me a day!!! lol
 
147Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 28, 2009, 12:03 		.....and that's Jason Heyward, bro. You prospect hound you.
 
149R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, May 28, 2009, 13:38 		Nice deal guys. I tried to pry Rivera away but didn't have the young bat mjd wanted/needed.

I'm still looking for a RP arm, and maybe an SP arm. Buchholz, Anderson, draft picks, you name it is on the table.
 
150Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, May 28, 2009, 14:25 		Thanks R9.

Ref - if you have to drop someone to push the trade through, please drop Amezaga. If I can drop him "early" and be valid without 23 players, I can do that too.
 
151blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, May 28, 2009, 15:52 		Awesome. I'm glad so many of you need closers. Now K-Rod and Fuentes just have to get hurt...
 
152Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, May 29, 2009, 00:21 		150: you can have 22, but why don't you just drop him after the freeze?
 
153Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 14:16 		Is there anyone who OPPOSES the ban on JUST drafted players being ineligible to be picked up before the prospect draft? To put it in perspective...rarely do these players even exist in the db--let alone picked up. After the heat CBS took on Strasburg, I doubt they ever do that again, but we will clarify that in the rules regardless just in case.

If there is ANYONE who opposes this ban (lasting about 4 weeks or so) we will send out an email vote. The MLB draft is next week so it needs to be done before then. If there is opposition and the proposal fails, Strasburg will be be taken off of a salary and placed on waivers after he is drafted by a MLB team.
 
154Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 14:46 		I think there needs to be some clarity, and this Strasberg problem kind of brings it out.

For example, it is wrong to pick him up before the draft because it deprives other players of the option to pick him up? If so, is the use of a waiver order and a wasted roster spot enough of a cost to do so?

What about just-signed players just after our prospect draft?

My own belief is that there should be a short (maybe 2 week) period before the draft in which no prospect-eligible players can be picked up, and that's it. I also think players at any level should be eligible to be drafted in the prospect draft, but that's a rule suggestion for another day.
 
155Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 20:25 		BH: Got your trade offer, that I'm thinking over. An interesting offer.
 
156blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, Jun 01, 2009, 23:23 		Cool. Hop on IM if you want to talk about it in more detail.
 
157Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jun 03, 2009, 11:04 		154: Want to be sure that the Prospects and the P-draft has litte to no impact on having available players who can help a team right now.

I highly doubt that anyone just drafted in the MLB draft would be singed and playing in a MLB game before the All-Star Game. Some could still be plaing in the College World Series when they are drafted.

The only current ban for ALL prospects is the freeze on the final day before the all-star game. Just becaus ethey might be Prospect-eligible, doesn't mean they couldn't be playing and help a team. There will be players drafted in the p-draft who are (or who have played) this season in MLB. We did add a rule when we started that states you can't drop a player within a week of the pdraft and then that smae manager draft him to try and get around having him on yoru active roster. I'm sure that rule is for naught as I can't imagine anyone trying to do that.

Also remember the prospect keepers and and draft order freeze is a week before the draft (which I will be w/o access during that time to assist).
 
158Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jun 03, 2009, 21:13 		I highly doubt that anyone just drafted in the MLB draft would be singed and playing in a MLB game before the All-Star Game.

That might be true (or might not be, I dunno). If you believe this then Strasberg is an anomaly and isn't worth the time to craft a rule against.

But there are plenty of players out there who are not eligible for the MLB draft but have prospect status and are therefore not eligible to be picked up in our prospect draft.
 
159blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 00:19 		Strasborg won't play before the ASG.
 
160Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 00:32 		158: If they are prospect draft eligible, they can be drafted. Doesn't matter if they werent JUST drafted or not.
 
161Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 00:59 		Right. Only pro players can be drafted in this league (although I would suggest, for the next change in the rules, that the reference to Cuban & Japanese players be changed to "professional players" so as not to unnecessarily limit the pro players just three leagues).

College & high school players cannot be drafted, of course, but given the how deep this league is, I would like to see the prospect draft expanded to be what we do in the political forum league. From our last prospect draft thread :

"Prospect limits: Hitters: fewer than 300 real MLB at-bats. Pitchers: fewer than 125 real MLB innings pitched. Any player, at any level, is eligible to be drafted as a prospect so long as they are under the playing limits"

 
162Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 14:00 		Cuba doesn't have "pro" players. They are exempt from MLB draft, like Japanese pro players--hence why the proposal was adopted a couple years back. If you have a proposal to change our prospect rules, go ahead and submit it.

There has not been any opposition to the current proposal. Will try to get some language drawn up that everyone is comfortable with so it can be implemented before the MLB draft next week.
 
163Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 16:51 		I basiclaly combined our draft/fa and ww rules into the same paragraph. I didn't change anything--simply added this to the end of the eligibility rules for clarification.

Even if a player is in the CBS database, he may not be picked up if he is an amatuer player (or waiting to be drafted in MLB draft)or has a salary attached to him. Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, he may not be picked up until after our Prospect Draft in July.

Does this make sense? Any further clarification needed?
 
164R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 17:45 		Trade Announcement:

R9 Gets:
Bobby Jenks
Slizz 14th round pick in 2010
Slizz 13th round pick in 2011
Slizz 14th round pick in 2011

for

Slizz gets:
Clay Buchholz
Travis Hafner
R9 2nd round pick in 2010
R9 1st round pick in 2011
R9 5th round pick in 2011
 
165R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 17:47 		Cue Bobby Jenks going on DL for reason X.
 
166Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 17:50 		He's stabbing himself with a ballpoint pen in the back of the knee right now.

#163: How about:

No amateur player may be picked up as a free agent or waiver claim if the player in question is still has amateur status, or has a salary attached to him. Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, he may not be picked up until after our Prospect Draft that year.


pd
 
167blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 19:10 		Damn, I wish I'd known Slizz had that much interest in Hafner.

I guess this sets the closer bar pretty high. Good.

Hey R9 - I got other players if you want em.
 
168Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 19:37 		I guess this sets the closer bar pretty high.

Nah. R9 just overpaid. If he had been negotiating in French, he would've done better. ;-)

Thank goodness Rivera is over the hill! I couldn't have paid this much!
 
169R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 22:37 		I'm still somewhat baffled at how cheap you got Rivera, but I didn't have the top young hitter prospect that you did. I offered the same picks package to mjd but he prefered Heyward. Given his team I think he made the right choice, I just think he could've squeezed a higher pick out of you too.

In the end though, I overpaid (twice!) for a need I was desperate to fill. I couldn't wait for the market to sort itself out, I had to overpay now. Now all you other c-loser sellers get to benefit. ;)
 
170Slizz
      ID: 32512422
      Thu, Jun 04, 2009, 23:12 		He's like Danny Ainge of G20. He's going all in with his chips and wants to win that championship...afterall, thats what it's all about.
 
171Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 00:19 		169: agreed. If Heyward was closer to the bigs and production, it might have been a better deal, but I think Species got over cheap. R9 didn't pay with all 2010 picks so that helped him quite a bit. R9 overpaid more on bh's deal for getting two players who still haven't played a game since he got them.

166: that sounds fine. I was trying to incorporate it all in one, but I can separate it out some. Might also list in the same sentence about the prospect draft clause that no prospect-eligible player may be picked up during the dead period between the freeze before the alll-star game until after the prospect draft as well.
----------

I've had some discussion come my way for both improving my team now as well as sending guys out now. Even though I don't have much of a paryer this season, I'll still try and make my team the best it can be this year--but I'm not going to kill my future obviously. I wouldn't mind trading just to trade as it's pretty boring thus far. If you have too many of a certain cat or position and it works--shoot it by me.
 
172Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 01:39 		Heyward is a monster. I personally don't mind investing an extra year or two for the BEST.

The big difference in "price", IMO, is Rivera's age vs. Jenks'. That is pretty important, IMO.
 
173Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 10:54 		I don't konw much about Heyward, but hypothetically there are a lot of "monsters" that have never panned out.

I get the age thing, but we're talking production right now to win the league--so it really makes little difference.
 
174Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:06 		I combined our draft, reg season and prospect section that deals with reg. roster. Using PD's suggestion, I now have this wording...

Players must be available in the CBS player pool and eligible to be picked up immediately to be drafted or added during the season via FA or Waivers. No amateur player may be drafted, picked up FA or WW if the player in question still has amateur status or has a salary attached to him. Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, he may not be picked up until after our Prospect Draft that year. No draft-eligible prospect will be allowed to be picked-up after the Sunday freeze before the All-Star break until after the prospect draft concludes.
 
175Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:13 		Instead off salary added, should prob say owned as a prospect since a prospect could be added w/o us knowing to add a salary. Also I'm not sure why the imemdiately avail to be picked up is in there in the first place but with our clarifications--that can prob go too.
 
176Slizz
      ID: 32512422
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:18 		Just throwing this out there...Ref and I are trying to work something out to get Ibanez on his squad...so if anyone is interested in a three team trade to make it happen, let us know.

The only guy I really want on his team is Tim Beckham (the Rays homer that I am) and I know with the season Raul is having that he's worth more than that.

 
177Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:22 		Heyward is a big 6'4" OF in the ATL system....a high draft pick in the 2007 draft. "A left handed Dave Winfield" by some observers. He was Keith Law's (ESPN Scouts Inc baseball writer and former Toronto Blue Jays scout/evaluator) #3 prospect in baseball going into this year, and is #8 in John Sickels' rankings on Rotowire. Any Baseball America chat that asks where Heyward will be in their next set of rankings gets answered with Top 10 if not Top 5.

I am not one to argue with someone like you Ref who has put together 4 out of 6 league titles.....but eventually one has to get SOME value out of an aging star and turn that value into something tangible to build upon. It's the old Sparky Anderson theory: "I'd rather trade someone a year too early than a year too late". Can you imagine the package someone could have received for David Ortiz prior to the 2008 season?

I know you do not share my affinity for prospects. Of course many, many prospects do not pan out. But it is soooooo incredibly difficult to get a top tier player in this league that I think it behooves one to cast your net wide, get a hold of 3-4 top-top-top prospects and hope one out of the 4 turn into a superstar.

3 Jason Heyward RF Atlanta Braves
TOP '08 LEVEL: A+ (Myrtle Beach)
The first round of the 2007 draft looks like it's going to turn out a half-dozen stars or well above-average big leaguers, if not more, with Heyward at the top of the list of its high school products. Even at age 17, Heyward was a physical specimen, already 6-4 and well-built with room to add muscle as he gets older. He controls the strike zone well, both laying off pitches out of the zone and working himself into hitters' counts; his contact rate was one of the best in the South Atlantic League this year despite his relative youth. He gets his arms extended well, setting up slightly away from his body, so the ball down or over the outer half is well within his reach. Atlanta has moved him from center to right field; he has a plus arm and above-average range now that he's out of the middle of the field. His upside is just a question of power; he's going to hit for average and be an asset in the field. His swing and body point to 30-plus homers a year, which, coupled with a healthy on-base percentage and defensive value, would make him one of the most valuable players in the game.
 
178Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:28 		....I'm not sure why the imemdiately avail to be picked up is in there in the first place....

Call it the "Huston Street" clarification. 2004 supplemental draft I believe (my first). In reviewing the rules during the draft, it simply stated that a player must be in the CBS database. Street was in the database but not eligible to be picked up (for some weird reason). I drafted him legitimately in the Supp Draft, but in being a rookie I forgot to pick him up immediately. At the end of the Supp Draft I audited my roster and realized I forgot to pick him up......but then couldn't because, while in the database, he wasn't eligible to be picked up.

We had a discussion and it was realized that it was an honest mistake on my part and the draft pick would stay. But the rule was added/clarified because of it.

I'm not sure I have come across players in the DB that aren't eligible to be signed in quite a few years....but you never know.
 
179Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:36 		Re: 174

IMO that wording does not cover a player like JD Drew or Aaron Crow who goes to play independent ball and is still subject to the MLB draft - unless they are still considered amateurs?!? Aren't they officially independent professionals?

It also does not cover the fluke Japanese Pro or Cuban player that could be added to the database before they are ever signed to a Major League team. I understand that the odds of this happening would be pretty low....but then again the thought of adding an amateur (Strasburg) to the CBS database was equally low, if not lower.
 
180Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 11:46 		Independent league players are professionals, I believe, and so would not be subject to the changes being proposed.
 
181mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 12:50 		Yeah, I might have squeezed a better deal from Species, but I'm
the manager mired near the bottom stuck with Ortiz. Hopefully
Heyward will soon replace Papi's previous numbers.

However, I now have 2 of the top 8 prospects and some nice
young players on my team. Seems like a good time to rebuild
and as I'm in it for the long haul, I thought I'd roll the dice with
a promising prospect.

Plus, as a Brave's fan, all I hear is raves about his potential and
work ethic.

I fully realize that past performance does not guarantee future
performance.
 
182Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 15:27 		re: 177 not nec. disagreeing with you. Just because I've won some league titles doesn't always mean I'm right or another strategy won't work as well or better. We all tend to overavalue and defend our players/trades. W/o knowing much about Heyward, I couldn't begin to figure things out. Obviously you do and mjd does and you two talked a lot about it beforehand.

For me, I admire mjd making a deal to help him in the future. I jsut feel with Heyward apparently being a couple years or more away that he could have gotten more--but who cares? We all value players differently. Species is trying to pay the least amount as possible to win and mjd is trying to get the most out of Rivera he can and still trying to hit a home run with a prospect.

re: 178 ah that's right. For one season we used the min gmaes to qualify at a position (so rookies had to pitch in 5 games and hitters had to play a position for 5 games to play anywhere else but DH. SO that's why that's in there but it can now go.

180: correct

179: If a player is drafted, he is eligible to be picked up after that prospect draft if he's still a FA as long as he doesn't go back to school. So if JD Drew wasn't drafted in the prospect draft after he went to play Indy ball, he could have been picked up right after the pdraft legally. Now if he goes back to school, he's an amateur again and you can't pick him up. If you have him on our roster and he goes back to school, you will lose him. Thing is, CBS has never put someone like that in the db.

Yu Dervish is on several teams right now as we have the ability to write in a player. But he is not in the db as he can't possibly become a MLB player this season. Now a Cuban player...I think he could be. But, he has to be signed to a club and once that is done, he is fair game to be picked up IMO, just like a Tom Glavine who is a current FA.

176: I'm in no hurry to move Tim Beckham. The overall #1 pick has been compared to Hanley Ramirez (My turn to pump up my prospect lol). The main problem I have is that he's a couple years out probbaly and I already have a nice SS in Hanley himself. I won't do Hanley for Ibanez staright up. I didn't even keep Ibanez this season and I like him better this year in Philly than I did last year in Seattle (and was telling Slizz that before keepers were due).
 
183Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 15:30 		I meant I wont do beckham for ibanez straight up and I am not even nec. looking to move him at all.
 
184Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 15:35 		Players must be available in the CBS player pool to be drafted or added during the season via FA or WW. No amateur player may be drafted or picked up via FA or WW if the player in question still has amateur status or is a prospect (normally has a salary of 1). Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, he may not be picked up until after our Prospect Draft that year. No draft-eligible prospect will be allowed to be picked-up after the Sunday freeze before the All-Star break until after the prospect draft concludes.
 
185blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 15:35 		Does anybody want to make a bold statement that Jason Heyward is absolutely going to be a better player than Jose Tabata in five years? That's the thing about prospects - you never know.
 
186Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 16:43 		My understanding is that we are trying to craft our rules to make sure that anyone picked up onto an active roster is actually signed to a major league team or a major league team's minor league system. Yes?

Yu Dervish is on several teams right now as we have the ability to write in a player. But he is not in the db as he can't possibly become a MLB player this season. Now a Cuban player...I think he could be. But, he has to be signed to a club and once that is done, he is fair game to be picked up IMO

So Ref like with Strasburg, I don't believe there is any wording in our rules that would prohibit the picking up of a Japanese or Cuban player if he's in the database but not signed to a team.

If we don't care that a Strasburg-like, we'll-put-his-ass-into-our-database-if-we-want-to issue happens with a Japanese or Cuban player, then that's fine with me. But I was always under the impression that the *intent* of our rules was to make it so a player has to be signed to a major league team. I still do not believe the proposed language clarifies that.
 
187Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jun 05, 2009, 17:17 		We want to make sure he is drafted or signed by an MLB team. Japan uses the psoting system and only occurs in offseason. Same thing if a Japanese player is a FA--he can only be signed at that time. CBS has never put one of these types of players in the db until Strasburg nor do I beleive they will do it again--but who knows? JD Drew wouldn't even be in the CBS db if he's playing in Indy ball. Rickey Henderson was playing Indy ball when LAD signed him. I have no idea if he was in the db or not. But if he was in the db already, but as soon as LA signed him (or was about to sign) there may have been teams wanting him.

My understanding is that an Indy player is able to be picked up like any other prospect-eligible player. If we want to restrict that then let's hear the pros and cons of that. However, I dont think the current guys who fit into that category are in the db and once tehy get drafted again, I think the same rule would then apply to the other draftees. Thoughts?
 
188R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Jun 06, 2009, 14:52 		Just to confirm, when the trade went through today and my team only had 22 guys at the roster deadline, I still score pts today right? My bench was just 1 guy short, I had 9 hitters and 6 pitchers in play.
 
189Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Sat, Jun 06, 2009, 16:49 		Ever since Japanese and Cubans were given eligibility, I've thought we should be allowed to draft anyone we want. During the other 364 days, a player has to be in the database to be picked up. If I think that Trey Griffey has superstar potential, I should be able to draft him as a prospect.

Strasburg is a pill. Do whatever it takes to prevent it becoming a first-come first-serve free agent acquisition for whichever G20 manager happens to be at the right place at the right time.

What is the eligibility status of Yadel Marti, SP from Cuba? The last news is that he fled Cuba via raft, and might be in the Dominican Republic. He wants a major league contact. I can find no current news on the guy, and it seems nobody will publically say where he is. Is he eligible for drafting?
 
190Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jun 07, 2009, 00:48 		188: you're fine.

189: All Cuban and Japanese players are eligible for the prospect draft.
 
191Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Mon, Jun 08, 2009, 13:40 		Looks like Valverde and Hafner are almost both back... seems like its been forever.
 
192R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 00:02 		Yep, been waiting a long time to plug Valverde in my lineup.
 
193Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 12:32 		So, have we finalized the eligibility clarification?

What are people's thoughts about removing restrictions on players subject to the MLB draft? i.e. college Freshman/Sophs, high school players, Trey Griffey, etc?

The rule was crafted before I got to G20, and in discussing it with Ref when I came into the league the rule was designed to avoid non-drafted high schoolers from being taken in the Prospect Draft. Like with Japanese and Cuban players, it would certainly add a bit of intrigue to the proceedings......while I wouldn't fight it, I'm not the one to take the mantle on champion the cause.
 
194blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 14:43 		Not in favor of that.
 
195Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jun 10, 2009, 17:55 		I would be in favor of opening the prospect draft as outlined in #161.

If people want to spend a draft pick (and prospect slot) on super-longshots I say go ahead. This opens up some strategic ideas.
 
196R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Jun 11, 2009, 20:52 		LOL thanks Mr. Jenks. Not quite what I wanted when I traded for you!
 
197Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 32519131
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 02:20 		Trade Announcement

Yokel gets:
Cameron Maybin
Peter N's 1st, 2nd, 3rd 2010 picks

Peter N gets:
Jacoby Ellsbury
Yokel's 10th, 11th and 14th 2010 picks
 
198Peter N.
      ID: 45461311
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 12:46 		Confirmed. I had to counter R9's moves. :-)
 
199blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, Jun 13, 2009, 19:34 		Son of a...
 
200Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 19:07 		193: Not in favor of that at all.

195: I am not sure what you outlined in 161. There is still time to offer rule change proposals for the upcoming prospect draft. Please state exactly what your proposal is. If there is support for it, we can take the next step.

197: This is a great season to be dealing for the future!!! Pete AIMed me about it. With Ref out of the picture, we all feel we have a real shot so we are all going for it. Unreal. Anyone else want to get into the mix and overpay for one of my guys? ;)
 
201Great One
      ID: 4352817
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 20:19 		I'm in SELL mode if anyone sees anything they like.
 
202R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 21:05 		Nice trade Pete. Definitely alot of contenders this year.
 
203blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Jun 14, 2009, 22:36 		Pete is just entranced by Jacoby's beautiful eyes. Only problem is now he doesn't have picks to trade away.
 
204Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jun 15, 2009, 18:02 		Wow. What a trade.
 
205Peter N.
      ID: 45461311
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 18:44 		LOL at bh. As long as Ellsbury has good enough eyesight to continue to get on base and swipe some bases, I don't care what color his eyes are.
 
206Peter N.
      ID: 45461311
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 21:43 		First game and 2 SBs for Ellsbury. Run Jacoby Run!
 
207Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 32519131
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 22:02 		Trade Announcement

Yokel gets:
Scott Kazmir

Species gets:
David Aardsma (first closer in the phonebook)
 
208Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jun 16, 2009, 22:05 		Hold onto that )(#*$)+*(#_*^@+( closer role, David!!
 
209Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jun 17, 2009, 17:02 		206: He SHOULD get you 2 SBs a day for your first 3 draft picks! ;)
 
210Toral
      ID: 4155487
      Thu, Jun 18, 2009, 14:39 		Call up Andrew McCutchen

Drop Brad Mills
 
211R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 01:29 		Finally! I'm no longer last in saves. All the trades were worth it! :)
 
212Slizz
      ID: 48571911
      Fri, Jun 19, 2009, 12:07 		With Ibanez on the DL...are there any takers?
 
213Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jun 24, 2009, 19:22 		Just a heads up...The Prospect Keeper deadline is coming up on Monday July 6th bt Noon ET. Any prospect who is still legal and not renounced will be kept at that deadline.

Also the standings on Monday morning will be used for the prospect draft in reverse order except for the lottery. Also that is the time when all prospect stats are official for the draft. If they haven't hit the threshold by that morning and subsequently go over their p-eligibility before the draft--they are still p-eligible.

Unfortunately, I will be out of town and apparently without access until later that week. We need to make sure the standings and prospect numbers (if close or over) are saved/posted for that day.

The P-draft will start on Monday July 13th at Noon ET.

Once keeper deadline hits and standigns are set and lottery run, we can establish how many rounds and picks we will have. Then we will process all trades. Remember, if you've traded away one draft pick, you will only be able to keep two prospects or have up to two picks after the trades are processed. There can never be over 60 prospects in our league at one time.
 
214blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Wed, Jun 24, 2009, 22:43 		I renounce and release Tabata. Enjoy.
 
215R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 00:11 		I renounce and release Jacob Mcgee.
 
216Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 00:36 		I wish to call up Jeff Niemann. Drop Carl Pavano.
 
217Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 01:14 		214-216: Done. Niemann's first call-up
 
218Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 13:43 		Re: #197

I corrected the prospect list to reflect Maybin now being owned by Yokel
 
219Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 15:34 		Has Pavano won more games this year than all his years with the Yankees? thats awesome!
 
220Peter N.
      ID: 45461311
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 18:46 		Max Scherzer is no longer a prospect so I should have 3 picks this year. Now I just have to figure out a way to keep Max!
 
221Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 19:15 		220: Renounced and removed from prospect list
 
222blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jun 25, 2009, 19:16 		Pete, I'll give you one of my picks for Miguel Cabrera. That way you'll only have 8 keepers!
 
223blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Jun 28, 2009, 20:59 		I've called up Elvis Andrus. Unless I say otherwise in this thread, I renounce him as of the deadline next week. I also picked him up.
 
224Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jun 29, 2009, 09:01 		Andrus called up and removed as a prospect.
 
225beastiemiked
      ID: 34556262
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 00:30 		I'm renouncing my rights for Henry Sosa and Dexter Fowler(already called up). So I should have 2 picks.
 
226Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 00:48 		225: Done
 
227Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 13:18 		When is the deadline to drop a player and free up a prospect pick slot? 1 week prior to draft would be this Sunday 7/5?
If anyone thinks Moustakous or Beau Mills would be better prospects than those they could select in the actual prospect draft we should talk cause I have too many 3B anyway so I've got to realign something here (cause nobody is getting around Longoria). Add Alex Gordon and Gamel to that discussion too I guess.
 
228Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 13:30 		227: Noon ET on Monday July 6th.

Draft begins Noon ET Mon July 13th.
 
229youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 16:50 		I want to drop the aging Melvin Mora and call up the emerging Colby Rasmus. I also renounce him as a prospect to free up a draft pick in the upcoming prospect draft. Thanks!
 
230Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 16:59 		I am renouncing the rights to prospect Adam Miller (SP, CLE). He is a Free Agent

I am also renouncing the Prospect rights to Rick Porcello, and permanently calling him up to the Show! (He's been there since opening day, so only need to delete his name from database)

 
231Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 17:37 		229 and 230: Done
 
232Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 17:39 		Prospects
(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08)

MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups), *not in db/salary

Allhair: 7.05 Wade Davis,P,TB; 9.08 Matt Wieters,C,Bal; 12.02 Trevor Cahill,P,OAK
bmd: 12.09 Brett Wallace,3B,STL
Blue Hen: 9.01 David Price,SP,TB; 12.12 Lars Anderson,1B,BOS
Darkside: 4.05 Brandon Wood,3B,LAA; 9.02 Matt LaPorta,OF,CLE; 12.07 Yonder Alonso,1B,Cin
GoatLocker 9.03 Eric Hurley,SP,TEX; 12.08 Yu Darvish,P,JAP*; 13.04 Aaron Crow,P,WAS*; ; 13.05 Michael Bowden,SP,BOS; 14.01 Casey Weathers,P,COL
Great One 9.05 Michael Moustakas,3B,KC; 12.03 Justin Smoak,1B,TEX, 13.03 Beau Mills,1B,CLE
Guru: 4.14 Andy LaRoche,3B,PIT(2); 10.01 Travis Snider,OF,TOR(1); 11.02 Jeff Clement,C,SEA
Jaydog: 9.18 Angel Villalona,3B,SF; 12.15 Neftali Soto,3B,CIN*; 13.08 Kyle Lotzkar,P,CIN*
mjd:10.04 Jon Meloan,P,LAD; 11.01 Will Inman,P,MIL; 12.04 Jason Heyward,OF,ATL; 12.17 Madison Bumgarner, P, SF
PD: 3.14 Jeff Niemann,P,TB(1); 9.19 Carlos Carrasco,SP,PHI;
Peter N:
Ref: 12.18 Tim Beckham,SS,TB
R9: 12.11 Brett Anderson,SP,OAK(1); 13.06 Jesse Todd,P,STL
SlackYokel: 4.02 Cameron Maybin,OF,FL(2); 10.03 Fernando Martinez,OF,NYM; 12.06 Brian Matusz,P,Bal; 13.02 Jeremy Hellickson,P,TB
Slizz 9.13 Wladimir Balentien,OF,SEA; 10.06 Brandon Jones,OF,ATL; 12.13 Chris Tillman,P,BAL
Species:
Toral: 6.06 Andrew McCutchen,OF,PIT; 9.09 Clayton Kershaw,P,LA; 12.05 Gordon Beckham,SS,CHW
Tosh: 12.10 Buster Posey,C,SF
Twarpy: 10.11 Troy Patton,P,BAL; 12.14 Aaron Poreda,P,CHW; 13.07 Tommy Hanson,P,ATL
youngroman:12.01 Pedro Alvarez,3B,Pit; 13.01 Neftali Feliz,SP,TX
***INELIGIBLE PLAYER: Stephen Strasburg

I have not checked any of them yet for eligibility.
 
233Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 17:45 		Some managers have over 3 prospects still and Twarpy has to get to no more than two prospects by the deadline.
 
234mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 18:26 		I renounce the right to prospects Jon Meloan and Will Inman
 
235Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 18:37 		234: Done

I've talked to both GoatLocker and Twarpy about their situations. I'm sure both will get rectified in short order.
 
236Toral
      ID: 4155487
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 19:14 		Call up Clayton Kershaw and drop Renyal Pinta.

Kershaw and McCutchen are staying up and may be removed from prospect list.
 
237Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 19:23 		Toral: Done

FYI - to have a legal lineup, I went ahead and put Kershaw in as ACTIVE, and he starts tomorrow at home vs. the Rockies. Please adjust (or not) as you see fit.
 
238Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jun 30, 2009, 19:24 		Prospects
(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08)

MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups), *not in db/salary

Allhair: 7.05 Wade Davis,P,TB; 9.08 Matt Wieters,C,Bal; 12.02 Trevor Cahill,P,OAK
bmd: 12.09 Brett Wallace,3B,STL
Blue Hen: 9.01 David Price,SP,TB; 12.12 Lars Anderson,1B,BOS
Darkside: 4.05 Brandon Wood,3B,LAA; 9.02 Matt LaPorta,OF,CLE; 12.07 Yonder Alonso,1B,Cin
GoatLocker 9.03 Eric Hurley,SP,TEX; 12.08 Yu Darvish,P,JAP*; 13.04 Aaron Crow,P,WAS*; 13.05 Michael Bowden,SP,BOS; 14.01 Casey Weathers,P,COL
Great One 9.05 Michael Moustakas,3B,KC; 12.03 Justin Smoak,1B,TEX, 13.03 Beau Mills,1B,CLE
Guru: 4.14 Andy LaRoche,3B,PIT(2); 10.01 Travis Snider,OF,TOR(1); 11.02 Jeff Clement,C,SEA
Jaydog: 9.18 Angel Villalona,3B,SF; 12.15 Neftali Soto,3B,CIN*; 13.08 Kyle Lotzkar,P,CIN*
mjd:12.04 Jason Heyward,OF,ATL; 12.17 Madison Bumgarner, P, SF
PD: 3.14 Jeff Niemann,P,TB(1); 9.19 Carlos Carrasco,SP,PHI;
Peter N:
Ref: 12.18 Tim Beckham,SS,TB
R9: 12.11 Brett Anderson,SP,OAK(1); 13.06 Jesse Todd,P,STL
SlackYokel: 4.02 Cameron Maybin,OF,FL(2); 10.03 Fernando Martinez,OF,NYM; 12.06 Brian Matusz,P,Bal; 13.02 Jeremy Hellickson,P,TB
Slizz 9.13 Wladimir Balentien,OF,SEA; 10.06 Brandon Jones,OF,ATL; 12.13 Chris Tillman,P,BAL
Species:
Toral: 12.05 Gordon Beckham,SS,CHW
Tosh: 12.10 Buster Posey,C,SF
Twarpy: 10.11 Troy Patton,P,BAL; 12.14 Aaron Poreda,P,CHW; 13.07 Tommy Hanson,P,ATL
youngroman:12.01 Pedro Alvarez,3B,Pit; 13.01 Neftali Feliz,SP,TX
***INELIGIBLE PLAYER: Stephen Strasburg
 
239Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 10:25 		Does anyone konw where I can go and get the stats of a player's specific time period (splits)? For instance, How Pierre did when he filled in for Manny. Is there a place I can get his sum total w/o having to add it up manually?
 
240Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 12:58 		Rules to determine if a prospect remains eligible to stay on prospect list:

Before the season at the keeper deadline and then again at the prospect keeper draft deadline, 7 days before the draft (8 days before the ASG), all hitters must have less than 300 ABs (400 if drafted in Rds 1-5) and pitchers less than 110 IP (100 if drafted in Rds 1-5) or 40 GP (50 if drafted in Rds 1-5) or they must be moved to your active roster or released. Managers must monitor their own prospects. If they are later to have found to be over the max. at that deadline, the player will be immediately removed as a prospect and put on waivers.

I'm going to start going through and removing ineligible prospects. It doesn't mean that each manager is not responsible for their own prospects if we happen to miss any.

-Players called up and no longer eligible ad removed: A Laroche, Guru
-Close to threshold: Cahill, AA; Niemann, PD
-No longer eligible but not called up and will be lost if not called up by deadline: Balentien, Slizz
 
241youngroman
      Donor
      ID: 02934823
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 13:41 		re 239: Juan Pierre at baseball-reference.com. select the 1st date and then the 2nd date and you see his stats total in this timeframe. here are his games since May 7
 
242Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 14:02 		Thanks YR. Man, he's been unreal.
 
243Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 14:23 		Please go ahead and remove Niemann from my prospect list. I'm likely to be keeping him up until he's over the threshold anyway, so might as well free up the spot.

This will leave me with one prospect (Carlos Carrasco).

pd
 
244Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 14:29 		I'm going to need to email my queue list to someone for the prospect draft. I'm out of town. I have two picks.

Who wants it?
 
245 Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 14:44 		send it over. I'll be around.
 
246Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 16:01 		RE 243: NIEMANN REMOVED.

Strategy-wise, even if they are eligible to be kept as a prospect as of Monday, they still may go over the threshold by the end of the season and may be unable to be kept. Some roll the dice and it has worked out. Others, not so fotunate.
 
247Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 16:52 		PD - Thanks. I guess I should start making that list now.

I leave on Saturday morning. I'll email things to you likely on Friday.
 
248blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 18:40 		Re 246: I am banking on a Price injury...
 
249darkside
      ID: 3617118
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 19:17 		I'm keeping all of my prospects and will have no picks in the draft.
 
250allhair allstars
      Sustainer
      ID: 50902421
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 23:12 		I'm renouncing my rights to Matt Wieters and am calling him up. Please drop Joe Beimel and the horse he rode in on.

I'm also renouncing rights to and calling up Trevor Cahill. Please drop Rich Hill like a lead balloon.

Thanks.
 
251Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 32519131
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 23:35 		Assuming I'm reading the rules right (and posts 80 and 81), I'd like to send Maybin back down without losing his rights.

And, I'll remove the prospect tag from Fernando Martinez (but call him up to my active roster).
 
252Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 01, 2009, 23:56 		250 and 251: Done.

I F'd up though and forgot to give Maybin a salary before I released him. Be sure to double check that I add one after he clears waivers.

Prospects
(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08)

MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups), *not in db/salary

Allhair: 7.05 Wade Davis,P,TB
bmd: 12.09 Brett Wallace,3B,STL
Blue Hen: 9.01 David Price,SP,TB; 12.12 Lars Anderson,1B,BOS
Darkside: 4.05 Brandon Wood,3B,LAA; 9.02 Matt LaPorta,OF,CLE; 12.07 Yonder Alonso,1B,Cin
GoatLocker 9.03 Eric Hurley,SP,TEX; 12.08 Yu Darvish,P,JAP*; 13.04 Aaron Crow,P,WAS*; 13.05 Michael Bowden,SP,BOS; 14.01 Casey Weathers,P,COL
Great One 9.05 Michael Moustakas,3B,KC; 12.03 Justin Smoak,1B,TEX, 13.03 Beau Mills,1B,CLE
Guru: 10.01 Travis Snider,OF,TOR(1); 11.02 Jeff Clement,C,SEA
Jaydog: 9.18 Angel Villalona,3B,SF; 12.15 Neftali Soto,3B,CIN*; 13.08 Kyle Lotzkar,P,CIN*
mjd:12.04 Jason Heyward,OF,ATL; 12.17 Madison Bumgarner, P, SF
PD: 9.19 Carlos Carrasco,SP,PHI;
Peter N:
Ref: 12.18 Tim Beckham,SS,TB
R9: 12.11 Brett Anderson,SP,OAK(1); 13.06 Jesse Todd,P,STL
SlackYokel: 4.02 Cameron Maybin,OF,FL(2); 12.06 Brian Matusz,P,Bal; 13.02 Jeremy Hellickson,P,TB
Slizz 9.13 Wladimir Balentien,OF,SEA; 10.06 Brandon Jones,OF,ATL; 12.13 Chris Tillman,P,BAL
Species:
Toral: 12.05 Gordon Beckham,SS,CHW
Tosh: 12.10 Buster Posey,C,SF
Twarpy: 10.11 Troy Patton,P,BAL; 12.14 Aaron Poreda,P,CHW; 13.07 Tommy Hanson,P,ATL
youngroman:12.01 Pedro Alvarez,3B,Pit; 13.01 Neftali Feliz,SP,TX
***INELIGIBLE PLAYER: Stephen Strasburg
 
253Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 00:23 		Maybin salary added. (Commish privs Species. Just can't add them to your own team.)

Looks like Twarpy and GL still need to get rid of a prospect in the next few days.
 
254Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 00:38 		Cool. Thanks Ref.

I had emailed both GL and Twarpy about their prospects....I'm sure they will adjust accordingly.
 
255Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 11:35 		Saving this for posterity......it might not ever happen again:

Standings Roster
Species 153.0
PeterN 150.5
R9 150.0
Ref 131.0
bmd 130.5
Twarpy 124.0
Guru 122.0
Tosh 116.5
Darkside 112.5
Yokel 102.0
Jaydog 97.5
Slizz 96.5
Toral 96.0
mjd 94.0
YR 93.5
allhair 78.5
GreatOne 77.5
GoatLocker 71.0
PermDude 57.5
BlueHen 46.0
 
256Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 12:46 		I was interested to see how the non-deal of Manny for Ludwick straight-up turned out. I chose to pick up FA Pierre instead and took some heat.

Juan Pierre: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=pierrju01&t=b&year=#1310-1358-sum:batting_gamelogs
Date Tm G GS Rslt PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
May 7, 2009 to Jul 1, 2009 LAD 50 50 29-21 240 214 32 68 14 3 0 21 16 2 18 6 4 0 3 5 21 7 .318 .381 .411 .793

Ryan Ludwick: http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=ludwiry01&t=b&year=2009

Date Tm G GS Rslt PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB IBB SO HBP SH SF ROE GDP SB CS BA OBP SLG OPS
May 7, 2009 to Jul 1, 2009 STL 35 31 15-20 130 113 12 21 2 1 4 16 13 1 26 2 0 1 1 1 2 0 .186 .279 .327 .607

Also remember if I had accepted the trade offer that Ludwick would have taken a couple days to even get to my team and I'd no longer have Manny--a definite keeper.

Games Pierre 50 Ludwick 35.
Hits P 68 L 21
HR P 0 L 4
Runs P 32 L 12
RBI P 21 L 16
SB P 21 L 2
BA P .318 L .186
OBP P .381 L .279
SLG P .411 L .327
OPS P .793 L .607
PA P 240 L 130
Ks P 18 L 26

Pierre wins every single cat except HRs--many by a wide margin. Furthermore, he had 15 less games and even when he does play PD doesn't even start him at times. I make my share of mistakes, but at least give me some credit for being able to analyze player values and how they fit fo MY team. I never even considered moving Manny--all trade offers or contacts were initiated by others.

Now I gotta hope that Manny can come in and get me some HRs and RBIs. Wasn't as worried about this year at the time--and still won't be able to crack the top 3, but I've been able to somehow ease up the standings and now am scratching my head what to do next. Do I pull the trigger on a trade that might allow me to stay top 6 or do I take an opportunity to get better next season? Thus far I've just been trying to stay somewhat compettitve while keeping an eye on the future.
 
257Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 12:56 		Of course you also got lucky that Pierre had an out of body experience for 50 games too, cause he's not that good.
 
258Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 02, 2009, 14:25 		Pierre does pretty well when he gets PT and dominates in steals. Apparently several teams have interest in him. He could also take more ABs away from Kemp.
 
259GoatLocker
      Leader
      ID: 060151121
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 11:34 		Renouncing and releasing rights to:

Michael Bowden
Eric Hurley
Casey Weathers

Leaves me with Yu Darvish and Aaron Crow

And One Draft Pick.
 
260Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 17:49 		259: Done
 
261Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 17:59 		I picked Pierre up on another team the second Manny's suspension went through. Pierre was hitching for PT and was the big loser for the Dodgers when Manny was signed. He certainly made the most of his time and it'll be interesting the see how Torre juggles the lineup. They are two different players and bring to the team two different opportunities.

Of course, Ref's trade analysis looks better because Ludwick has had a bit of a funk lately (which is why I don't start him all the time--playing the matchup game right now until he gets back on track).

 
262Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 21:20 		My analysis looks better? I posted my mindset when it first happened and talked about how Pierre would be good and would at least mitigate not having Manny or Ludwick. Turns out Pierre was even better. I knew the steals would really help me. Pierre has cooled off too. I would have made the offer for Manny too if I were you--but I said then and still say it was not a good deal for me. Also, only playing 35 of 50 games also goes back to him not being a full-time player. Now if Manny can come in the way he did last season I'll be even happier.
 
263Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 23:01 		Andy LaRoche is no longer eligible as a prospect, but he's already been called up. I'm retaining Travis Snider and Jeff Clement as prospects.
 
264Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 03, 2009, 23:10 		My analysis looks better?

Sure it does. Regardless of whether you thought you were doing the right thing back when you picked up Pierre, my response is aimed at your #256.

And Ludwick is a "part time player" in the same way Manny is. That is, when available to play, he plays. (Ludwick was on the DL for 15 games).

I think the move was a good one for you, in the end. But you needn't shade the analysis to make yourself seem prescient.
 
265Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 00:10 		I didnt shade the analysis I posted the numbers. But it doesn't matter--even if the numbers had been reversed, I am still glad I kept Manny.
 
266blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 01:39 		I think all of this in response to #64. It's pretty clear that Ref meant "terrible trade if I accept it" rather than terrible offer.
 
267Peter N.
      ID: 1964742
      Sat, Jul 04, 2009, 03:47 		Ref needs to be a politician.
 
268beastiemiked
      ID: 29640423
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 00:40 		Ref, just because you think a trade is out of whack doesn't mean you need to completely trash it on the boards. You might not think you did but it certainly came off that way.

Ludwick for Manny was not that bad at the time. Nobody could've predicted Ludwick would suck as bad as he has. The guy hit 37 homeruns 113 RBI's, not very far off of Manny's numbers last year. Saying he was a platoon player was ridiculous. Let's see how Manny's next 2 years are compared to Ludwick's next 5. Ludwick is still on pace for 21 hr 80+ RBIs. Sounds like a season a certain slugger had just 2 years ago.

I'm looking for a closer. Would prefer one that doesn't have a 4+ ERA :)

 
269blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 00:49 		Look at BMD standing up for the Cardinal. By the way, I saw a Ludwick jersey on the street in NYC. On a girl.
 
270Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 11:39 		bmd, I didn't bring it up. I said there have been several offers for Manny and I am not trading him. PD said his offer was a good one and I disagreed and he disclosed his offer. It went on from there. I stand by my opinion--after all when it comes to my team--that's all that counts. I explained why I thought it was a bad deal for my team and my situation and as objective as possible. I like Ludwick but I like Manny better even with losing 50 games and having Piere mitigate the stats. Just because you don't agree with my opinion doesn't mean that I am "trashing" an offer that I didn't even bring up.

Tosh and I are out of touch for a few days. Get a hold of Species for commish help. Don't forget prospect keeper deadline!
 
271Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 11:49 		Oh, one more thing about Ludwick before I drop it forever. At the time, the Cards were rotating 4 OF in 3 OF slots. Ludwick wasn't playing every day. He wasn't playing every day. People were pissed about it because they say he is ebtter than that (and I agree). So if "platoon player" irritated you than I apologize. How about the guy wasn't play every day?

Anyhow, be back in a few days.
 
272Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 12:22 		Ref: That's not at all true. I really don't know why you trot out that canard. Ludwick missed games from the DL, but he was never a part-time player. When uninjured he plays. Outside of his DL stint, he played in 65 of 72 games (4 of those games missed were in the first 2 weeks of the season).

The Cards were shuffling the other 2 OF spots, not Ludwick's RF spot.
 
273Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Jul 05, 2009, 13:24 		I just re-read my last note, and it makes me sound a bit pissy. Nothing can be further from the truth, however. There are lots of good reasons not to make any trade -- it is just a burr under my saddle when a manager uses a reason that isn't really true.

No biggie.
 
274blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 00:04 		Not that it's going to happen, but what's the penalty for having too many prospects at the deadline?
 
275Twarpy
      ID: 6635523
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 00:35 		Drop Troy Patton for me, thanks.
 
276Sllizz
      ID: 5166610
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 11:06 		Sorry was away for the entire 4th of July weekend.

Definitely keeping Chris Tillman...gonna mull over Jones & Balentin as I type this.

 
277Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 11:44 		Not that it's going to happen, but what's the penalty for having too many prospects at the deadline?

That manager risks having a Commissioner choose the drops for them to make them legal.
 
278Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 11:53 		I'd like to renounce rights to Beau Mills to free up a spot. Thanks.
 
279Sllizz
      ID: 5166610
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 11:54 		Renouncing and releasing rights to:

Wladimir Balentien, OF/DH, SEABrandon Jones, OF, ATL

Will only keep Chris Tillman, SP, BAL

 
280Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 11:56 		Standings and draft order (before lottery and trades):
July 6th Standings G20 Draft Order
150.0   blue hen
Species
147.0   Perm Dude
PeterN 142.0   GoatLocker
Ref 140.5   allhair allstars
bmd 136.0   Great one
Twarpy 125.5   mjd
Guru 118.5   Slizz
Tosh 117.0   youngroman
Darkside 113.5   Jaydog
Yokel 111.5   Toral
Toral 98.5   Slackjawed Yokel
Jaydog 98.0   darkside
YR 93.5   Tosh
Slizz 93.0   Guru
mjd 89.0   Twarpy
GreatOne 76.5   beastiemiked
allhair 76.0   Ref
GoatLocker 72.0   Peter N
PermDude 58.0   Species
BlueHen 44.0   R9
 
281Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 12:04 		Okay, we have hit our deadline. Everyone is in compliance. Here is what I have, taking this morning's adjustments into account:

Prospects
(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08)

MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups), *not in db/salary

Allhair: 7.05 Wade Davis,P,TB
bmd: 12.09 Brett Wallace,3B,STL
Blue Hen: 9.01 David Price,SP,TB; 12.12 Lars Anderson,1B,BOS
Darkside: 4.05 Brandon Wood,3B,LAA; 9.02 Matt LaPorta,OF,CLE; 12.07 Yonder Alonso,1B,Cin
GoatLocker 12.08 Yu Darvish,P,JAP*; 13.04 Aaron Crow,P,WAS*;
Great One 9.05 Michael Moustakas,3B,KC; 12.03 Justin Smoak,1B,TEX
Guru: 10.01 Travis Snider,OF,TOR(1); 11.02 Jeff Clement,C,SEA
Jaydog: 9.18 Angel Villalona,3B,SF; 12.15 Neftali Soto,3B,CIN*; 13.08 Kyle Lotzkar,P,CIN*
mjd:12.04 Jason Heyward,OF,ATL; 12.17 Madison Bumgarner, P, SF
PD: 9.19 Carlos Carrasco,SP,PHI;
Peter N:
Ref: 12.18 Tim Beckham,SS,TB
R9: 12.11 Brett Anderson,SP,OAK(1); 13.06 Jesse Todd,P,STL
SlackYokel: 4.02 Cameron Maybin,OF,FL(2); 12.06 Brian Matusz,P,Bal; 13.02 Jeremy Hellickson,P,TB
Slizz 12.13 Chris Tillman,P,BAL
Species:
Toral: 12.05 Gordon Beckham,SS,CHW
Tosh: 12.10 Buster Posey,C,SF
Twarpy: 12.14 Aaron Poreda,P,CHW; 13.07 Tommy Hanson,P,ATL
youngroman:12.01 Pedro Alvarez,3B,Pit; 13.01 Neftali Feliz,SP,TX

Please review for accuracy.

Here is how the assigning of picks, etc. is completed:

1. Monday morning we take the standings and post it. We then take the reverse order and post it. If there are any ties we dice roll with the winner getting the higher pick throughout.
2. We run lottery for places 7-20. Ties in those placings are split chances. If there is an extra ball it also goes to the winner of the previous dice roll winner.
3. Then we have an order and establish how many picks each manager will have and how many picks per round, etc. Throwing out any picks who still have prospects, etc.
4. Finally we complete the traded picks.
5. We then make sure the remaining prospects and available picks = 60.

So if the 17th place team wins the lottery but chose to keep all prospects and not have any picks, he would still have the overall pick--but his pick would be skipped by rule--moving the next place up to take his spot.

So, starting with blue hen, who gets the most chances to win, ending with Guru who gets the least, I will ask Guru to run a lottery for the top 3 picks in 2009's G20 Prospect Draft. From there, I will assign picks and work through the trades.
 
282Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 12:13 		I have verified that all prospects remaining on our prospect rosters still qualify for the prospect list.
 
283blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:32 		So when is the lottery going to happen? Seems like, based on the above, it'll happen as soon as Guru reads this thread.
 
284Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 19:50 		Guru emailed me and said he just got back home after being gone a week.....and found some server maintenance to attend to. Since the draft isn't until next Monday, I told him he could get to it as his leisure.

Just don't take TOO LONG, Guru ;)

But seriously, there could be trades in the mix depending upon the outcome of the lottery, so it does make sense to do it sooner rather than later.

FYI - even a team without a pick is in the lottery. If they win and don't have a pick, they are just skipped, or rather eliminated from the draft grid when it is prepared.
 
285blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Mon, Jul 06, 2009, 22:55 		Speaking of which, if anyone wants to trade for my pick (or R9's), I'm all ears.
 
286Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 14:27 		The server issues seem to be resolved - however, in several test runs, I have not received the email confirmation.

Rather than delaying further, I'm going to do it now. I'll save the browser-based confirms as pdf files as backup support in case the emails aren't flowing properly.

The spreadsheet with the lottery decoding is here: http://rotoguru1.com/base/G20-Jul09-14x4_balls.xls
 
287Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 14:32 		First pick: 2-3-5-12

mjd
 
288Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 14:34 		Second pick: 1-7-10-14

Goatlocker
 
289Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 14:36 		Third pick: 1-2-11-12

GreatOne
 
290Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 14:37 		It looks like the confirmation emails have gone through. Species and R9 each received a copy.
 
291blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 14:59 		Awesome. I'm sure my guy will still be there at #4.

Two things I'd like to see:
- The odds of the guy with the most ping pong balls getting the #4 pick.
- The results of previous lotteries in grid form. I seem to remember the mjd franchise winning one previously. Who is the luckiest G20 manager?

 
292Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 15:07 		The odds of the guy with the most ping pong balls getting missed on all three draws is somewhere between 32-42%, and probably closer to 32% than 42%.
 
293Jaydog
      ID: 2621714
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 15:21 		Hey all,

I e-mailed Ref about this over the weekend but should have posted here as well. I am dropping all three of my prospects.

 
294Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 18:05 		blue hen = Sacramento Kings LMAO

I am of the opinion that if Jaydog's email to Ref is dated before the deadline that his renouncements will be valid. He didn't win the lottery so it's not like he benefits. I have texted Ref but he probably can't even get to his email to confirm.

I am going to assume the answer is yes and post the draft grid accordingly.
 
295Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 18:21 		Here is the draft grid, under the assumption Jaydog's renouncements are valid:
Pick # Round 1 Round 2  Round 3
1 mjd Perm Dude Jaydog
2 GoatLocker allhair allstars Peter N.
3 Great One Slizz Species
4 blue hen JayDog
5 Perm Dude Toral
6 allhair allstars Tosh
7 Slizz beastiemiked
8 youngroman Ref
9 Jaydog Peter N.
10 Toral Species
11 Tosh
12 Guru
13 Perm Dude
14 beastiemiked
15 Ref
16 Peter N
17 Species
18 blue hen
31 picks + 29 remaining prospects = 60 prospect slots total
 
296blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 23:01 		It doesn't matter what your name is. I'll take it. I don't want to hear any of this "BH is so lucky - he even won the lottery." I am going to dominate this league fair and square.
 
297Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Jul 07, 2009, 23:22 		You gotta love that BH brings a pillow for his own spanking.
 
298R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 01:17 		I'd like call up Brett Anderson (2nd time) and release Kelvim Escobar.
 
299 mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 17:52 		I'm willing to entertain offers for the first pick in the prospect
draft.

Not sure what it's worth, but all offers will be taken under
advisement.

I already have Madison Bumgarner and was not really planning to
chose a pitcher, though Stephen Strasberg does make it very
tempting to do so.
 
300Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 18:05 		R9 - thank goodness you haven't been pitching Anderson recently! Good job! ;)

Second call up completed and noted for the record.
 
301Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 21:16 		Re 293 and 294 = legal. E-mails were received in time.

295: This year rounds will be 15-17.

Big thanks to Species and Guru for taking care of this!
 
302Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 08, 2009, 21:23 		Only two prospects left were drafted in the first 5 rounds and are still frandgarthered (Wood and Maybin). Once they leave, we can get rid of the old prospect rule.
 
303mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 00:40 		This Strasberg guy must be pretty decent. I'm getting some pretty
interesting offers.
 
304R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 05:49 		Re: 300; I'm trying to be fair and not run away with this thing in mid July. For example, I've been starting Gardner for his DNP's and skipping him for his multi-SB games.
 
305Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 09:11 		304: I dumped him because of that. He can be great. Just couldn't seem to get it right.
 
306blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jul 09, 2009, 11:28 		I am looking to deal R9's prospect pick (#20 overall) for a supplemental pick in next year's draft. Shoot me an email if you are interested.
 
307Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jul 10, 2009, 19:32 		Remember the prospect draft starts Monday at Noon ET. Study up! 31 picks are available.

Also, sometime after the draft we will start looking at G24 football. We will need at least one new manager if anyone is interested.
 
308Slizz
      ID: 5166610
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 01:09 		I know this is off topic, but how awesome was Brock Lesnar's interview with Joe Rogan post-fight?
 
309 mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 13:41 		Lot's of inquiries about my first overall pick in the prospect
draft, but no one has made me an offer I can't refuse, so it
looks like I'll roll the dice with Strasberg. Plus a serious RL
situation has occurred that has prevented me from weighing all
the options that have been offered. My apologies for the
indecision, but what is happening is well beyond my control.

This does not mean I won't trade him, Madison Bumgamer or
even Joba at a later date, as I like several of the names being
tossed around in the various trade talks.

On another note, to you guys at the top fighting for the
championship. Big Papi is now 1B eligible and really raking of
late. Certainly not the Ortiz of old, but he does seem to have
found his power stroke and realistically could wind up with 25
HR and 90 RBIs this season.

Perhaps a few of you may be interested in acquiring some
depth for the stretch run or keeping him away from
the competition.
 
310Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 14:55 		No prospect-eligible player may be picked up from now until after the p-draft.
 
311blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 21:18 		Actually, I seem to remember the rule being that p-eligible guys couldn't be picked up a week before the draft. Is Yokel's pickup of Garrett Jones legit?

In other news, Jonathan "I just threw a no-hitter" is available for a mid-level pick.
 
312Slizz
      ID: 576421220
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 21:42 		BH - Good time to sell high on Sanchez! If he can ever bring that "A" game consistently...he'd be a top 10 pitcher.
 
313Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 23:10 		This Ludwick platooner seems to be warming up. Just a bit. 15 RBI's and 4 HR's last 6 games?
 
314Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 23:22 		Crazy part-timer.
 
315Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 32519131
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 23:28 		BH - I don't see anything in the rules about prospect-eligible pick-ups... I was just desperately looking for someone to stick in my DH slot with three bats on the DL, and didn't even check how many career at bats he had - just that he was hot as of late.

By the way, I'm headed off on vacation for the next week and a half with possibly no access....
 
316Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 23:31 		311: You cna't draft a player you had on your team within a week of the draft. Before today you couldn't pick up any ust drafted MLB players. Once the freeze hit today, you can't pick up ANY eligible prospect until after the p-draft.

Also, for clarification, Bryce Harper is NOT eligible for our draft. I got that questiona and reserached him. Apparently he's 16 and signed with an agent (Boras) and trying to leave HS early to be eligible for next year's MLB draft.
 
317Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 23:33 		In case I wasn't clear, Yokel's pick-up was legal as it occurred before today's freeze and he wasn't taken in the MLB '09 draft.
 
318blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Jul 12, 2009, 23:42 		I get it now. I was confused by the "week before" thing, but this make sense. Jones is different anyway, since he's not much of a prospect - unlikely he'd have been taken in the prospect draft and the pickup was intended for current help, not future help.

I was about to post about Ludwick too. I wish I'd gotten him a week ago in TSN.

By the way, I'm not actually looking to deal Sanchez (but always open to it, of course). I think he'll take the league by storm soon, possibly by the second half of 2009. That's why I traded for him. Of course, the last guy I said that about was Wandy Rodriguez and while he's getting there, he still has a bit to go.
 
319Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 11:24 		Prospect Draft Thread

P-Draft Discussion
 
320Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 13:43 		re: Sanchez

I think he's a much much better pitcher than that 1.71 WHIP that got him sent to the bullpen. But too soon to tell if that no-no is an aberation or he's finally turned the corner. It's amazing what one game will do to your fantasy psyche. Just last week bh was saying how he may have screwed up on the Sanchez deal and now he probably feels great that he still has him. It's a roller coaster ride we've all been on many times.
 
321Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 14:24 		Did he start him for the no-hitter? thats the best, I did that once. Had a guy on the bench, can't even remember who anymore I've tried to block it out! :)
 
322blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Mon, Jul 13, 2009, 14:26 		G20 is the only league (of 3 I have him in) where I started Sanchez.
 
323Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 13:28 		Please double check your prospects and our list from the p-draft discussion thread and our league rules.
 
324Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 13:44 		mjd posted some interesting perspective regarding his rationale about trading away the #1 prospect pick/the rights to Stephen Strasburg. He wrote:

Also my research revealed some interesting facts:

• Since the draft began in 1965, 101 pitchers have been drafted in the top five selections. Only 12 have won 100 games. (Josh Beckett is closing in, with 94; check back in a few years with Justin Verlander and David Price.) Of those 12, five finished with losing records.

• Those 101 pitchers have combined for just 68 seasons of 15 or more wins -- on average, less than one per pitcher.

Also note that of players picked in the top 5 rounds, hitters have produced much more star power. The pitchers have produced just one borderline Hall of Famer (Kevin Brown), while
the 118 hitters drafted in the top five have produced four Hall of Famers (Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, Robin Young and Paul Molitor), four likely future Hall of Famers (Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Barry Larkin and Chipper Jones) and two borderline Hall of Famers (Dale Murphy, Mark Teixeira).

I even found and article that breaks down Strasberg's pitching mechanics and interestingly enough, they compare very much to Mark Prior's. They had slow motion video of both guys and
made frame by frame comparisons.

Perspective is a great thing. Two people can look at the same thing in two different ways and arrive at different conclusions. While I agree that draft history does NOT side with the success of pitchers drafted very high in the draft, to me the perspective of Strasburg's dominance, stuff and projection should have outweighed the poor draft history of pitchers.

While I think mjd made a mistake in letting go of a talent the size of Strasburg, in terms of his putting together of his team, I cannot argue one bit. He already has Bumgarner and doesn't want to be too pitching-heavy in his prospect investement. In a vacuum I think that is wise. But in this league that true stud #1 ace, with youth, strikeouts and outstanding ratios is soooooooo hard to come by that when you have the chance to get one it should be exceptionally hard to let him go.

In looking over the most valuable young pitching aces out there (and let's put that in the under-27 age range), with rare exception these pitchers were all highly touted either when drafted or as they were coming up the prospect ranks. They were ALL acquired EARLY:

Tim Lincecum: prospect draft
Zack Greinke: was a keeper for at least 1 year before making his debut. Of course he fell on hard times but in the end he was scouted as this kind of pitcher coming up and is only fulfilling his original potential now, IMO
Felix Hernandez: prospect draft
Justin Verlander: was snapped up days before a prospect draft and kept as a keeper despite only making 2 starts that year
Josh Beckett: was a keeper once or twice before getting a full season in

Other young studs that as nearly as good or already are:
Matt Cain: prospect draft
Chad Billingsley: prospect draft
Yovani Gallardo: prospect draft
Jon Lester: keeper before he pitched anything close to a full season
Clayton Kershaw: prospect draft

Josh Johnson is a notable exception in terms of being a keeper or being in the prospect draft, but he got hurt and is just breaking out now.

My point is, that while it is very fair to acknowledge that for every Beckett there are two or three Todd Van Poppels, sometimes you just have to take the chance and go with the scouting consensus if you want to get that stud. I think getting rid of a talent like Strasburg - at least a bit more proven as a college pitcher - for a 19 year old SS 1 year out of high school was crazy.
 
325Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 13:47 		......point of the above is not to point a finger at mjd, but to just foster more discussion and perspective.
 
326Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 13:54 		Your point seems to be: "History is one thing, but Strasberg is different."

I'd have to say that virtually all of the pitchers drafted early had the same hype about them. They were all drafted where they were for the same reason--"history is one thing, but [put pitcher's name here] is different."

Now, our prospect draft is different from the MLB draft (in that most of these guys have gone through the ranks a bit), so your comparison to ours isn't a perfect match. But I think disregarding entirely the chances of a highly touted position player misses the point a bit as well.
 
327blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 14:37 		Beckham sucks. I blame Ref for taking him the first place. I can't believe someone posted somewhere that Strasburg for Beckham was "even."

Definitely, there is benefit in the prospect draft. But you don't always need it. Wandy Rodriguez was a 6th rounder this year.
 
328Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 14:38 		There is a lot of uncertainty about both prospects in question. Beleive me, I thought long and hard about both of them form the time mjd said he was interested in Beckham until the time he made that offer.

1. Will Stras be able to sign in a timely fashion????It would be nice to at least get a Sept callup a la Price last year.
2. If Beckham can live up to his hype of the next Hanley or next ARod--that could be huge--esp at SS.
3. Beckham is at least a season away and more likely at least two. I drafted knowing this--but thinking he was by far the best prospect and by the time he got up--who knows what wouldbe going on with Hanley. Perhaps I could use them both like GO did with his 3B (DH) or would I have to trade one of them? And who knows if Beckham gets hurt or ever lives up to his hype? How long do I want to wait to find out?
4. How long will I even keep Stras? If he's not a true keeper, will I keep him anyhow jsut because how much I paid for him? Knowing how I typiclaly operate--that won't factor in.
5. I am in total agreement with mjd's analysis. But my thinking with Stras is that he's supposedly so much further along that he won't have to come up through the minors much and "waste" IPs down there.
6. When it comes to prospects--so many either down't pan out at all or simply turn out to be average and we can find similar players every season in our S-draft. My thought is that I like to get a guy closer to the majors so if he's not gonna pan out--let me get rid of him sooner rather than later. It's prob not totally rational--but I haven't been one to undergo a major rebuilding project. I did think this was my year though.
7. Finally, I am not afraid of taking chances to make my team better. Sometimes they don't pan out, but I've been able to recover from that. Sending ARod away for Jared Weaver and Zambrano turned out to be a real stinker--but I've done well despite that. I've made some dumb moves this season also in retrospect--but the good moves always seem to outweigh the bad ones. So if Stras never pans out--what did it cost me? Papi who I likely won't keep and two draft picks and I won't lose the potential on Beckham for a couple seasons. Even if he turns out to be a Major Stud, I'm hoping that other doors will have opened up for me in the mean time. Mjd said he was dealing with I think 8 other teams and the offer he sent me was better than any other offer he had. I know there would have been a lot more offers/offered if there weren't so many issues surrounding things. If I didn't like my side of things--I probably wouldn't have agreed to it. Mjd felt the same way about his side of it. Even if he ends up getting the better of the deal--as long as Stras can perform at a nice level and sooner--it will still be good for me.
 
329Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 14:50 		Sounds like BH is a big Strasburg guy?
 
330Slizz
      ID: 576421220
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 15:08 		damn BH, you're coming hard at Ref! Anyhow, here is a take on Tim Beckham, and obviously biased from this Rays fan:

Beckham is three years younger than league average, and he's striking out and walking at average clips while displaying more power than most of the league's populous. I'm not sure how anyone can be down on this guy right now. Yes, he's made errors, but the bat is nice. Here's a comparison for fun:

Beckham (19): .283/.342/.417

League average: .254/.322/.368

Justin Upton (18): .263/.343/.413

League average: .253/.325/.365

No, he's not Justin Upton, but nobody else is either. Nothing Beckham has or has not done to date should turn you against the pick.

Might I add that Justin Upton has turned out to be quite the pro prospect (fantasy wise at least!).

 
332Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 16:28 		Your point seems to be: "History is one thing, but Strasberg is different."

Yes and no.

When you see the numbers Strasburg has put up....combine that with the quantifiable data of his stuff (FB speed, slider speed and break) and the less quantifiable "make up" he brings to the table, he grades out in many people's eyes as the best college pitching prospect in 25 years.

So my point is, if you are going to go against what history tells us, you ought to do it with THE BEST. If history tells us that 80% of high first round pitchers (I'm pulling a number out of thin air) flame out and amount to nothing and you think Strasburg has a 40% chance of fulfilling his potential, you TAKE IT due to the value he will bring if he does fulfill that potential.

You hear all the time about "Five Tool" guys. These guys seem to flame out all of the time......but man, when you hit it on the head and that player achieves his full potential, you have a star on your hands. So the moral to my story is that in this league the competition is so fierce for those types of players that you HAVE to take risks to acquire them or miss out completely.
 
333Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 16:32 		They say he's a Mark Prior clone, not sure if thats a good or bad thing either.
 
334blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 16:54 		And let's not be so fast to jump off the Mark Prior or Brien Taylor bandwagons. Prior did have a couple of fantasy-useful years, including a 2003 that probably won a lot of leagues for people. And Taylor suffered a serious injury, NOT ineffectiveness (until later).

Let's look back at some old prospect drafts, and there were probably some players taken who did a lot worse than Prior and never suffered a Taylor-like injury.
 
335Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 16:59 		I agree. Mark Prior was pretty damn good for a short time.
 
336Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 17:02 		They say he's a Mark Prior clone, not sure if thats a good or bad thing either.

I'm probably biased because I blame him for losing the 2002 World Series, but one has to wonder if Prior was at least partially done in by the Dusty Baker school of 3 or more 125 pitch outings a month (or in a row!). Looking over his record, it seems more than a coincidence to see Robb Nen, Jason Schmidt, Mark Prior and Kerry Wood all be worked to death by Baker only to have their arms go and never be the same. I'd hate to be a Reds fan and wonder what he will do to Cueto, Volquez and Bailey.
 
337Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Jul 15, 2009, 17:05 		Re: G24 Football

Just got an email and apparently we need at least two new managers for this season. Contact me if any of you are interested.
 
338beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 12:10 		Species, it's one thing not to include Cueto in your pitcher prospect list but not including Papelbon, is blasphemous. Yankee bias I say.
 
339blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 12:45 		Re: 330

A year of age makes a huge difference at that level of the minors.

Beckham is down to a .329 OBP and there is still plenty of season left to go down more.

Beckham is a good prospect, but hasn't yet performed at the level Strasburg has, and that's before Strasburg has faced a single professional hitter.
 
340Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 13:04 		I concur with bh that there is no way that Beckham and Strasburg are even in terms of the perceived value between the two players right now.

bmd: LOL......no Yankee bias - Beckett and Lester are on there, aren't they? My point was focused on young #1 stud starters as compared to closers. As valuable as Papelbon is, with saves being so fickle I would imagine that most agree they would much rather have Tim Lincecum or Felix Hernandez over Jonathan Papelbon.
 
341beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 16:28 		Papelbons career up to this point has been a lot better than Fernandez's up to this point. Don't think it's even really close either.
 
342Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 16:45 		Can't argue historical value of Papelbon vs. Felix at all.....

But the context of my post was long term keeper value/future value. All signs seem to point to Felix finally reaching the much anticipated point of being a top 5 starter in the American League. 200+ innings of value goes further than 65 innings and 35-40 saves.....in my humble opinion.

If there are teams that would accept a young stud closer of Papelbon's level in trade for a young stud starter of Felix's level, please email me and we will discuss a trade!
 
343blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 16:52 		Hernandez has been so successful that bmd doesn't even know how to spell his name!
 
344mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 17:21 		Last year only 30% of the guys who started the season as the
closer for all MLB teams, kept their job all season. Paps is an
elite closer though, and short of his right arm falling off, his job
is as safe as it gets. I'd take Linc before him, but probably not
Felix, though Species does make a good point about him.

Have not looked at this season yet, but on my current RIBC AAA
team, the only true closer I drafted was Brian Wilson, yet I have
the 4th highest amount of saves in that league.


True, there is admittedly a talent void between Beckham and
Strasberg, but Ref didn't give me 2 draft pick upgrades for a
half season rental of Big Papi. I believe Ortiz is done as a keeper
in this league. Stick a fork in him. Hell, I might have taken a 8th
or 9th round pick for him about 2 months ago. I couldn't give
him away.

Anyone care to venture a guess where he might go in next
year's supplemental draft?

Even though Beckham fits in well with my other prospects, that
does not mean I won't trade him. I've actually had 2 inquiries
about his availability already.

And I just view all of bh's fuss about the trade as sour grapes,
as he pushed very hard to get that first pick, but did not have
the pieces I wanted to make it happen. Even after I told him I
had a verbal agreement with another manager, he was still
trying to get me to back out on my deal with Ref.

Sorry, I don't play that.
 
345Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 18:07 		I think Ortiz has turned it around this year. I don't think he'll get his average up to more than about .265 or so (tops) but 30 dingers and 100 rbis are certainly not out of the question. Neither is a 70 run season.

No longer a sure keeper I'd say. But not toast, either.

One thing he got this year that he didn't last: 1B eligibility.

 
346Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 18:24 		Last year only 30% of the guys who started the season as the closer for all MLB teams, kept their job all season. Paps is an elite closer though, and short of his right arm falling off, his job is as safe as it gets. I'd take Linc before him, but probably not Felix, though Species does make a good point about him.

Have not looked at this season yet, but on my current RIBC AAA team, the only true closer I drafted was Brian Wilson, yet I have the 4th highest amount of saves in that league.

While I do understand Papelbon's increased value due to the fact that he is an elite closer (and it helps that he is always on a top team) and not at risk of losing his job increases his value relative to other closers....but doesn't the rest of this section of the discussion then detract from that value? When you can get, if you are lucky enough, basically equal production out of Ryan Franklin or David Aardsma late in the draft (or worse, the waiver wire), how is that more valuable than Felix Hernandez???

I'm sure I'm biased about Felix having owned him for so long, but if you go to CBS' Sortable Stats for All Pitchers, Felix ranks 4th in the game behind Haren, Lincecum and Grienke. I realize this determination of value is akin to "Yahoo Rankings", but it's something to go by.
 
347mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 18:46 		345: that 1B eligibility was a perfect storm of him getting hot,
Lowell's injury, and the Sox playing in NL parks. I believe he's a
few short of 10 and will be only a DH next year.

Is he a first round pick?

346: that's why I hate drafting closer's early in other leagues. But
it's a pain to have to chase saves all year.
 
348Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 18:50 		I'll take 200 good innings over 50 good innnings anytime.
 
349Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 18:50 		I don't think he's a first round pick--that wasn't really your point in your previous post. But I think he'll be a keeper.
 
350Peter N.
      ID: 586321317
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 18:52 		Unless Big Papi retires, he'll go in the 1st round of next year's supplemental draft. This is assuming Ref doesn't find a way to keep him. I know he likes the old guys. ;-)

What I didn't understand is why give away Ortiz now that he's finally heating up. Sorry, but a 3rd next year and a 5th the following year is pretty much a give away. Add to the fact that you traded away one of the most highly touted prospects in years for a guy who isn't lighting it up in the minors right now, and I'd say its a slam dunk for Ref.

With all that said, this is what makes fantasy sports interesting. We all have different values on players and different ways of trying to be successful. I hope it ends up a win-win for both.
 
351Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:25 		RE: 350 same here

What I don't understand is that if there were 8 other managers pushing for Stras and bh says poor mjd (when he offered less)...why didn't you offer more? I certainly wasn't chasing Stras. I was interested in him, but wasn't beating down mjd's door either. MJD said in his offer to feel free to counter but I thought his offer was fair.

If you really want someone then overpay what you think he's worth...or hell just pay what he's worth than to try and get over on someone. I don't get how some of the same people involved in the Stras bidding process thinks my side is so much better? I've seen GO not have the pieces to get a deal done and what does he do when he really wants something? He goes out and gs those pieces if need be. He overpays. Now he's pretty damn smart too in his wheeling and dealing. But if Stras is a slam dunk, why didn't everyone go after him with everything they had? Just sayin...
 
352Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:31 		I don't think he's a slam dunk at all, so thats why I didn't bother... and all I had to do was move up 2 spots in the prospect draft.
 
353Peter N.
      ID: 586321317
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:32 		FWIW, I wasn't one of the managers going after Strasburg.
 
354Peter N.
      ID: 586321317
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:36 		Ref, I never said Strasburg is a slam dunk. I said the overall deal is a slam dunk for you. You acquired help now and still kept an eye on the future. That's tough to accomplish in this league so well done on your part.
 
355Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 19:50 		It really wasn't well done as I didn't persue him hard. It's funny as I was AIMing with bmd when the offer came in and I told him what it was and that I think I had to do it. I did want him. I just wasn't sure what it would take to get the deal done. I did know that he wanted Beckham but so did Slizz. I wasn't in a hurry to give up Beckham. Mjd said as part of the deal I had to take Papi and that would cost me more. I figured I could use Papi at DH if he hits so told him that it wasn't a dealbreaker. But the offer came in, I felt it was a reasonable offer considering the unknowns involved.

I never would have given up the picks for Papi alone. Hell Species just got Matsuii for Gaudin and a 4th. Rather have Mats than Papi--but who knows--maybe Papi will go nuts? What's telling though is that even hot he's only hitting .300 obp. That's scary as hell for a team built like mine.
 
356blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 20:52 		I would have offered more. I was certainly prepared to. I would easily have offered Andrus and a 3rd and 5th for Strasburg and Ortiz, if I thought that had a chance. Granted, Andrus would have to be kept instead of a prospect, but I'd put even money on Beckham playing a season in the majors by the time he's 20, so I'd put my offer ahead of Ref's. I'd probably have given him a second and a third plus Andrus, and my picks are essentially a round higher than Ref's.

Granted, I started lower because I figured I could rip off the new guy. Apparently, that's quite easy to do, but someone else beat me at my own game.
 
357beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 20:54 		While I do understand Papelbon's increased value due to the fact that he is an elite closer (and it helps that he is always on a top team) and not at risk of losing his job increases his value relative to other closers....but doesn't the rest of this section of the discussion then detract from that value? When you can get, if you are lucky enough, basically equal production out of Ryan Franklin or David Aardsma late in the draft (or worse, the waiver wire), how is that more valuable than Felix Hernandez???

Well 1 of us can get Ryan Franklin. Whoever ended up with him certainly got lucky. Same with Aardesma, there were something like 5 potential closers at the beginning of the year for Seattle.

There are just as many very good SP's that aren picked through the supp draft. Wandy Rodriguez and Edwin Jackson this year. Cliff Lee and Dempster last year just to name a few.

The big difference is you can't just pick up a save off the wire like you can a win or a semi decent starting pitcher. I'd much rather have the #1 RP year in and year out than the #5 SP. Not saying Papelbon is the #1 rp or Hernandez is the #5 SP or that either will not get better.

Not even sure why I am arguing. My whole point was Papelbon should've been on the list and Cueto most likely as well.

 
358Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 22:42 		Not sure how thats offering more, since Beckham will be a better player Elvis AND doesn't take up a keeper spot for likely 2 years.
 
359Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 23:25 		I give Ref the 'best line of the Strasburg discussion' award:

If you wanted him, why didn't you offer more?

Byatch!
 
360blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 23:33 		Man, if I'd have known how much GO liked Beckham, I'd have let Ref fleece ME.
 
361Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Thu, Jul 16, 2009, 23:59 		I like him cause he's related to David Beckham.
 
362mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 01:16 		358 and I did not want high picks. An extra 3rd and 5th in 2010
plus an extra 5th in 2011 allows me to take a flyer on an
under the radar guy or two without reaching too far. Those
higher picks force you to take "the best player available". That
always seems like such a good idea at the time, but often
backfires.

Some managers get off on seemingly getting the better end of a
deal while remaining a cellar dweller. I enjoy trying to find that
diamond in the rough while building a contending team.

Different philosophies and managing styles is one of the things
that I love about this league.

LMAO 359.



 
363blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 09:52 		I hereby offer my 5th round pick to MJD for his 2nd round pick each year for the next ten years.
 
364Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 10:18 		So whats the big hangup on switching from CBS to ESPN for these leagues? the inability to designate prospects or salary them? BH - would it be difficult to just add a "can't add" or frozen list of some sort controlled by the commish that pulls them from the free agent pool?

I'm sure its been discussed, I just don't see it being a terribly difficult to thing to add, but I'm not a programmer so i really don't know.

 
365mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 11:59 		I wish BH would apply for one of those teams in G24. The
entertainment value on our message board thread alone would be
well worth it.

Hopefully, he'd wind up in my division, I could use the extra bump
in the standings.
 
366blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 12:01 		It's straightforward enough, but there's pushback because some people feel that it doesn't cater to the "mainstream" leagues enough. I fight that battle a lot. The best thing you can do is call customer care and ask for it.

Also, I'm not so certain why something like that even matters. We have the prospect list and the rule is quite clear. If you pick up a guy who is a prospect, the first admin to see it will drop him immediately. Why is the salary part so important?
 
367blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 12:07 		MJD, you should join Dirty Dozen. THAT is a league with smack as the foundation. Honestly, I'd say it's the one league where how much smack you talk is more important than performance. Well, at least I think that because of my own performance, but you get the idea.
 
368Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 12:11 		The salary is important because it gives the rest of us an important clue if we pick up a protected player. CBS won't let us add a player to the roster who has a salary, so this prevents the accidental pickup of protected prospects.

I don't know about the rest of the league, but there are at least one or two times in the season I go to add a guy and then find out he's protected because of the salary.
 
369Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:30 		I've done it PD, and with that many prospects its tough. But honestly if they could make an extra "roster" of prospects and it would pull them from the free agent pool altogether - that would be one step better.
 
370Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:31 		BH gets so much smack in Dirty Dozen cause his team is a fraud and is heading back down to reality of 6th place and everyone reminds him! :)
 
371blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:37 		Maybe we could put the prospects on our benches and trust that people won't accidentally put one in the lineup?

Taxi squad is an idea that gets put in a bucket with the other one.
 
372Slizz
      ID: 576421220
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:38 		Anybody interested in Raul Ibanez for their stretch run?

I would be looking for a building block 1st baseman and a high draft pick in return.

I feel I have a good nucleus of young keepers (::crossing fingers that Milledge comes back healthy and Dukes puts it together::) and Ibanez would make a killer addition to a contending squad.

 
373Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:43 		I know Yahoo has "Team Log" where you can see what a given player has contributed to your standings total when you start them. Like I know Ibanez has 23 HR's of the HR's from my standings total and I had Clint Barmes contributing a 1/3 with a run cause I picked him for a day a while back.

I assume ESPN has something similar where we could see if a guy was being played or not.

 
374blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:49 		Yes, that exists. Here is a link to my RIBC pitching. You can see why I'm not in first.
 
375Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 14:52 		When speaking with ESPN about our league--there was just no way they could accomodate our prospects. I mentioned a taxi squad that would not count against player rosters. Since we have differing numbers of prospects--it makes things really tough. CBS has a taxi squad on football and a minors on baseball but they are not smart enough to put a taxi squad on baseball or mke a minors that won't count against overall roster numbers--even when it talks about that. We've made numerous requests and they have failed.
 
376Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 15:20 		OR... if there is a way to grey out the "add" button next to a players name. Its obvious this is possible when you consider leagues have "can't cut lists" where players get that little red thing next to them. Why can't they let you control a list using the same logic but for adds.

Anyway, I guess we're all bitching about the same thing. Oh well. BH - I'll call the customer service thing sometime this summer when I get more thoughts together about the Nascar layout.

 
377Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 15:28 		ESPN was very responsive to our league needs. Just couldn't get past the final hurdle.
 
378Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 15:39 		Would anyone have any interest in changing the category of "steals" to "net steals" (steals minus CS)? Seems like an interesting twist to me for next year.
 
379Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 16:07 		Net steals is interesting, I've never thought about it.
 
380blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 16:22 		Personally, I'm not interested in net steals. But that's just one vote and probably reason for the rest of you to vote for it.
 
381Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 16:30 		"What are your thoughts on frilly toothpicks?"

"I'm for 'em!!!!"

 
382blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Jul 17, 2009, 16:38 		"It's the soup of the day."

"That sounds good. I'll have that."
 
383Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Jul 19, 2009, 13:07 		"I'll have what she's having."
 
384R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Jul 20, 2009, 05:01 		"Buck Futter!"
 
385Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 11:59 		Minnesota
IP H R ER BB K HR WHIP Season ERA
N. Blackburn 5.0 13 7 7 0 0 2 1.33 3.44

Tosh - be careful, the local police will be banging down your door shortly. You are guilty of Grand Larceny.

At the time, my local county mental health SWAT team will be coming with a straight jacket for me, since I am obviously insane for making that trade.

Geez.
 
386Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 17:32 		Grand larceny? I practically gave him away for free after you came looking for him.

BTW - Where I live, we only have 3 cops, and I often share beers with two of them. They've let me off for things worse than Larceny. Ahh ... small town life.
 
387Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 18:17 		Great. Tosh is greasing the palms of the local police. Perhaps I'll have to transplant some illegal foliage onto the island and call the Feds instead.
 
388Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Tue, Jul 21, 2009, 18:45 		HaHa. The cops tell me that 1 in 10 houses out here have a grow room. I think they are being conservative. I know of one grow room less than 250 yards from the front door of a cop, and I'm pretty sure he knows about it too. :-)

Please let me know where you plant the foliage. I'll dig it up and move them over to my place. :-)
 
389darkside
      ID: 3617118
      Wed, Jul 22, 2009, 19:51 		I'm looking to move Todd Helton for a 2nd/3rd rd pick (current standings will determine which I'd want).

Would also entertain offers for pitching. Nolasco (5-2, 59IP, 1.02 WHIP, 3.28 ERA, 68 K's since being recalled), Johnson and Lester are the obvious candidates, but none are bargains. Broxton is off the table.
 
390beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 12:10 		I knew I should've never traded for Franklin. Double Whammy.
 
391Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 12:48 		That's okay bmd. You could have been like me......salivating at the opportunity to have a strong Twins team go into Oakland and have Blackburn and Perkins lined up to go against:

1 - The worst offense in the AL;
2 - In the best pitchers park in the AL

......only to have them put up (combined):

6 innings
19 hits (!!)
15 runs
3 walks
0 strikeouts

How is THAT for F**KED up? Take your little 2-run blown save and go cry to someone who cares!! ;-)
 
392Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 12:55 		Species, its because I added Daric Barton, he's the magic elixir. Sorry bout that.
 
393Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 16:45 		Buehrle got me 4 early points all by himself today.
 
394Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Jul 23, 2009, 16:46 		We all have our sob stories. I need to quit reading the news as when I bench a guy he goes nuts a la Santana, Branyan and Manny.
 
395Slizz
      ID: 13104129
      Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 11:10 		re: 394 - i have a sob story about once a month with Danks or Wainwright b/c CBS locks the rosters by the time i get to them!

Ibanez anyone?

 
396beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 15:21 		With Lilly now out. I'm thinking about packing it in. Franklin for a 1st rounder anyone?

Luke Scott also available for fairly cheap.

 
397Great One
      ID: 17459269
      Fri, Jul 24, 2009, 15:54 		I've got Nelson Cruz on the block for a keeper SP (injured or not).
 
398Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 00:00 		Why do we use both ERA & WHIP in this league? Just wondering.
 
399Great One
      ID: 205282111
      Mon, Jul 27, 2009, 00:11 		Cause they measure two different things?
 
400 Jaydog
      ID: 4651287
      Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 08:51 		Guys that can be had for a decent keeper quality starting pitcher and/or high 2010 draft picks:

Fernando Rodney
Corey Hart


Both should be able to help you this year and in the future.
 
401 Toral Away
      ID: 46341210
      Tue, Jul 28, 2009, 10:11 		Mr Second Half, Roy Oswalt, available for a young hitter. Take a look at his career stats for August and September.
 
403Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 13:36 		Looks like it could be a 2 team race. Too early to discount Species but he is way back. I'm also mathemtacially alive, but my pitching is so bad that I'm all but done--esp. with using so many innings already. Have made some bad decisions in retrospect. My crystal ball never seems to work right. I'm going to continue ot compete but can't seem to pull the trigger on some of the trade ideas that have been floating my way. If something major happens I guess I could change my mind, but I can't see it at this point.
 
404Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 15:50 		I just noticed that CBS now locks their lineups 5 mins befor ethe first game instead of 30 mins. Wonder when that changed? It's about time. Now if they'd only allow us to lock before each MLB game...
 
405blue hen
      ID: 599281215
      Sat, Aug 01, 2009, 23:58 		Toral, I sent you an email. Let's talk.
 
406Toral
      ID: 4155487
      Sun, Aug 02, 2009, 00:20 		OK!
 
407Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 00:38 		Trade announcement:

Perm Dude trades Torii Hunter and Jeff Niemann to Toral for Hank Blalock and Howie Kendrick.

Straight up--no draft picks involved.
 
408blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 00:51 		Toral wins.
 
409Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 01:00 		Maybe. Niemann is an overachiever and Hunter is a 33 year old with a strained oblique.

I'd certainly have never made this trade a month ago. But I think Hunter will have his power and speed sapped the rest of the way out and will be a borderline keeper in the end.

Kendrick is tearing it up right now and if he lives up to his potential he's a steal.
 
410blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 10:18 		Tearing it up right now?
 
411Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 10:24 		Are you looking at a different Howie Kendrick than I am, BH? He's hitting .407 over the last month. .600 over the last week.
 
412Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:05 		If Kendrick stops getting hurt all of the F-ing time and turns into the .320 every-year-hitter many scouts thought he would be, I like this from PD's perspective.
 
413Great One
      ID: 4778411
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:14 		I kind of agree, the best "keeper" type player here is Kendrick (factoring in age, position, upside etc).
 
414Great One
      ID: 4778411
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 12:16 		I am looking to get a few major deals done here before the season is out and still nobody is untouchable except for Longoria.
Sizemore, Haren, Nelson Cruz among others available... 2 closers in Frasor and Jim Johnson can be worked in or for picks...
 
415Slizz
      ID: 26692711
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 20:11 		Personally, I think its a wash. I love Torii Hunter and with guys like Ibanez producing late in their 30's, there's no reason to think he'll experience a significant dropoff within the next 2 years. The make or break is Kendrick's health and the fact that he plays 2nd. If he can live up to potential, PD might have the edge, but its too early to tell.

There is a ceiling to the Big Nyquill (Niemann) is capable of. For example, 73% of Niemann's pitches are fastballs. Of that, only 4.2% are swung on and missed. That is pretty alarming for the simple fact that batters are making contact with the ball more often than not. For a guy who can hit 95-96mph on the gun, its not a very good sign and those balls are going to turn into HR's sooner than later. The #'s are bound to go up with him.

However, Niemann has AWESOME off-speed stuff is solid. If he can develop that change up and get more movement on his fastball...he COULD be a dominant pitcher.

No comment on Blalock...he is what he is.

 
416Peter N.
      ID: 19721419
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 20:32 		The deal is fair. BH is just pissed because he hasn't made a trade in awhile. :-)
 
417blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Wed, Aug 05, 2009, 23:59 		True. Jon Rauch is available for a mid-level pick.

More seriously, I really need to deal Theriot. If you're in need of a shortstop, he can certainly get you some good stats. You might even keep him; I did, last year. But now I have a certain 20 year old phenom I'm going to have to keep instead.
 
418Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 28723520
      Sat, Aug 08, 2009, 21:06 		Commish(es) - I'd like to call up Brian Matusz. I've already made the roster space for him.

thanks.
 
419Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sun, Aug 09, 2009, 16:13 		Just saw this post. Emailing the commishses will often times speed things up.

Matusz has been called up for the first time.
 
420Great One
      ID: 4778411
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:10 		I've really been searching and searching to find trades to make and can't much discussion or feedback going.
I've also had trades sitting out there for weeks on end. This league has been pretty frustrating this year.
 
421Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 14:13 		It's expected for all trades or inquiries to be responded to or even rejected in a timely manner. I haven't gotten the first complaint all year for any managers (might be a first). If the commishes can assist, let us know.
 
422Great One
      ID: 24723111
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 17:45 		Part of the problem with CBS is a pending trade isn't on the same page you set your lineup each day. I'm sure some people like me actually have that page bookmarked. You have to search for it (other than the email or going through the league homepage).

Also, can we see individual manager activity like in Yahoo where you can see the last time people logged in, made a move, how many add/drops they've made etc?

 
423blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 17:54 		You can see that on ESPN.
 
424beastiemiked
      ID: 35621411
      Fri, Aug 14, 2009, 19:47 		I hate having the trade screen on a different page. I probably would've cancelled my offer for Ryan Franklin since by the time it was accepted I had completely forgot I had made the offer.
 
425Peter N.
      ID: 07361210
      Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 21:02 		The laziness of some people is amazing.
 
426Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Sat, Aug 15, 2009, 21:21 		I hate my pitching! ;)
 
427Great One
      ID: 24723111
      Sun, Aug 16, 2009, 18:53 		I guess its the perspective of the laziness, because alright, maybe you missed the offer cause its not on the main screen.. but that just means some of these people not ever going to the trade screen to make offers of their own where they might stumble across my offer?

To me, the laziness is never making any offers of your own to improve your team. Not the ones that are actively trying to work on deals and feel they can do so more effectively if it were set up this way -- because the people they are making offers to apparently need it plastered all over their lineup screen to even realize they have a deal.

 
428Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 17, 2009, 01:05 		If your alerts are on, you get an email when you get an offer.
 
429Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Aug 18, 2009, 00:27 		Thank goodness that Stras signed.
 
431Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Aug 27, 2009, 10:16 		If my pitching staff was just decent I'd have a chance this year. I have a lot of potentially keeper youngsters and closers though and can't afford to release any of them.
 
432Great One
      ID: 24723111
      Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 17:39 		I'm around tonight if anyones got any trade ideas... can't believe my lack of deals this year. Very disappointing.
 
433blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sun, Aug 30, 2009, 20:34 		Me too. Especially Jon Sanchez or Tim Hudson if you need pitching, or Ankiel, Theriot or Cust on the hitting side.
 
434Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 13:18 		Trades must be agreed to by 11:59 PM ET today.
 
435Toral
      ID: 4155487
      Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 13:20 		blue hen, you wanna trade, just for some fun?
 
436Slizz
      ID: 557152814
      Mon, Aug 31, 2009, 21:40 		Last chance for Ibanez

Get at me with an offer!

I don't have any needs besides 1B, so if you can't do that draftpicks will suffice!

 
437Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 12:07 		I can't believe were going to let a mother()#*&$)(#*%^& French Canadian win this thing! Merde!!!
 
438Great One
      ID: 13842213
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 13:10 		Only 3 good things came from Canada... try and guess.
 
439Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 13:15 		my wife's family?
 
440blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 14:41 		- Lacrosse
- Labatts
- "Not Twarpy"
 
441blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 14:41 		Oh, and the Polkaroo.
 
442Great One
      ID: 13842213
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 14:46 		Also not Barilko!
 
444Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 15:01 		I'm just wondering if the lone French swear word in my repertoire was spelled correctly

I'm not sure what good 3 things come from Canada, but the only good french thing is menage a trois!
 
445blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 15:08 		French fries? French toast? Steve Jeltz? Bruce Bochy?
 
446Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 17:21 		3 good things from Canada
Neil Young
Rush
James Naismith
 
447Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Fri, Sep 04, 2009, 17:42 		Blackberry
 
448blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 00:18 		Adam Loewen?
 
449Great One
      ID: 24723111
      Sat, Sep 05, 2009, 00:28 		Twarpy, Barilko and Celine Dion actually, I lied.
 
450R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sun, Sep 06, 2009, 20:18 		You can keep all 3 GO! ;)

Don't worry fecies, looks like my guys are going to crack under the pressure. I'm tellin ya, if I lose this league on the last day AGAIN, I'll be hosting a firesale in the offseason.
 
451Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Wed, Sep 09, 2009, 20:58 		If I had any pitching at all, I'd actually be in contention with these scrubs I'm running out there. Incredible to be toward the top and be dead last in WHIP.

Here are the players I'm using every day that I picked up off FA:

C Olivo
3B Uribe
OF. F Gutierrezz
OF S. Smith
DH M. Diaz

My other 4 are:
1B D. Lee Keeper and on fire
2B D. Roberts Keepr and slumping lately
SS Hanley Keeper and playing well again
OF Manny Keeper. Been in a slump lately but did get a couple homers so maybe he's coming out of it.

My bench is
D. Ortiz via trade He has been horrible lately Though he did get a HR on my bench yesterday
Branyan drafted and who knows if he's coming back
Kubel Drafted and does get in my lineup at times. Play matchups

Pitching:
4 closers and no one wanted one.
So called starters who can't find the plate it seems. Man I hope Strasburg is all that and a bag of chips.
 
452mjd
      Leader
      ID: 501381415
      Wed, Sep 09, 2009, 23:54 		At least he signed.

The chance that he might not was reason 2b that I traded his
rights.
 
453Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Thu, Sep 10, 2009, 12:49 		Yeah, I thought he was going to Japan. It made no sense to go through all that--but the agent is horrible for the game.
 
454Peter N.
      ID: 37121718
      Fri, Sep 11, 2009, 10:40 		Come on R9, let's make it interesting. USA vs Canada ;-)
 
455Toral
      ID: 4155487
      Fri, Sep 11, 2009, 10:41 		R9's from Quebec. So who's representing Canada?
 
456Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Sep 11, 2009, 11:09 		LMAO!!!
 
457Great One
      ID: 258888
      Fri, Sep 11, 2009, 11:17 		Tim Horton.
 
458R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Sat, Sep 12, 2009, 23:36 		My guys are doing their best to help you out Pete! ;)

Les maudite tabernac lanceurs de fous!
 
459Peter N.
      ID: 10831414
      Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 12:50 		R9, My guys are dropping like flies so I'm returning the favor. Soriano didn't sting too bad, but losing Morneau really sucks.
 
460blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 12:52 		Justin Morneau is available for a mid-level pick.
 
461Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 16:33 		Pete, I think R9 was referring to your loss of Soriano as things that hurt him! The way Sori stunk it up and was in your lineup every day really helped him! ;)
 
462Peter N.
      ID: 10831414
      Tue, Sep 15, 2009, 17:25 		LOL Ref, good point. He was terrible. As things stand now, Sori won't be making it rain next year.
 
463Slackjawed Yokel
      ID: 357352016
      Thu, Sep 17, 2009, 20:31 		Commishes - I'd like to send Brian Matusz back down to the farm team. thanks.
 
464blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Thu, Sep 17, 2009, 22:02 		I have Soriano in another keeper league (H2H), and it's even worse. The league counts OBP (like us) and batter K's. The league's not quite as deep as G20, but I've kept Soriano for the last three years, since I acquired him in a bigger trade. When he was 30/30, he was playable, but he was almost not kept last year and hasn't made the lineup most weeks this year. I started Fukudome and more recently Andy Marte over Soriano. A couple days ago, I dropped him despite 3 DL slots.

How the mighty have fallen.
 
465Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Mon, Sep 21, 2009, 13:18 		Please note:

Ref needs to be relieved of Commissioner duties for the time being. Covering those duties is likely to be a team effort, but for now if you have issues direct them here or to me.

This will include getting G20 Hoops up and running in the near future.
 
466Great One
      ID: 4778411
      Mon, Sep 21, 2009, 14:08 		Please call up Nigel McGuinness for me. Thanks.
 
467Perm Dude
      ID: 154552311
      Tue, Sep 22, 2009, 02:07 		Species: I'm happy to help fill in, if needed.
 
468Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Tue, Sep 22, 2009, 11:32 		PD: I will probably take you up on that for Hoops setup and draft. Sadly I am doing my annual trip to Orange County right after the draft starts. This WILL allow me time to set everything up, but not to handle in-draft crap, rulings, skipped picks, etc too efficiently.
 
469Peter N.
      ID: 57832917
      Tue, Sep 29, 2009, 21:11 		The next few days are going to be interesting. I will probably second-guess every lineup move I make and drive myself crazy, lol.
 
470R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 02:15 		!!!!

asdfasdfasdfasdfasdfasdfdf

lol gl Pete!
 
471blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 11:34 		Let's go R9!
 
472Peter N.
      ID: 57832917
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 13:39 		bh is just bitter because I won't trade Cabrera for anyone except some guy named Braun. ;-)
 
473blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Wed, Sep 30, 2009, 14:29 		I have the Royals reliever Braun if you want him...
 
474Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Sun, Oct 04, 2009, 19:03 		Looks like Pete did it! Merde!

Congrats Pete.
 
475R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Mon, Oct 05, 2009, 01:01 		Merde indeed! :( Congrats Pete, and nice finish Ref.

Should be a busy offseason for me, lots of potential 6-9 keepers for me, along with the possibility that I might just rebuild completely.
 
476Peter N.
      ID: 57832917
      Fri, Oct 09, 2009, 09:46 		Thanks for the congratulations here on the boards and via e-mail. This league is tough and is getting tougher every year. This is evident by the fact that 162 roto points was the lowest total for a winner. This win was particularly sweet for me considering how much I gave up to get Ellsbury(1st, 2nd and 3rd plus Maybin)

Speaking of Ellsbury, I feel that was the key move for me so I guess I should give an assist to Yokel. ;-) I gave up quite a bit in terms of the future, but winning made it all worth it. Another key was Soriano getting hurt, as crazy as that sounds. It allowed me to give Borbon a shot and he delivered nicely down the stretch. Add to that a few timely SP pickups in the last couple weeks and it was a recipe for a win.

I look forward to next year and will be busy in the offseason trying to figure out my keepers.
 
477Tosh
      Leader
      ID: 057721710
      Fri, Oct 09, 2009, 12:05 		Dang. I remember writing a congratulations message. I also remember a cat & dog emergency at my house about that same time.

Congrats to Peter N! What a great season and a solid finish.

Congrats to R9 for leading the pack for lots of the season. You may be annoyed with the 2nd place finish, but you are way better than 18 others of us.

Thanks to everyone for another fun season. I'll see you all again in 2010.
 
478blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Oct 09, 2009, 13:04 		Congrats Pete. I hope Vazquez served you well.
 
479blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Fri, Oct 09, 2009, 13:05 		Also, I guess trading is open. Francisco Liriano is available for a mid-level pick.
 
480Slizz
      ID: 389401717
      Tue, Nov 03, 2009, 15:02 		BH - given the fact that Liriano is rumored to be traded to Tampa Bay for Akinori Iwamura...i have high interest in him.

What are you looking for?

 
481Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 16:20 		Happy New Year, G20! It's never too early to plant seeds for G20 trades. I have a plethora of keeper-quality players that I would like to offer either one-by-one for picks or in a package for an upgrade. My ultimate need is a strong starting pitcher but will look for value anywhere.

The closest-to-untouchable-as-untouchable-can-be:

King Felix -- I just can't see a scenario where trading him makes sense....but nobody is untouchable.

The next closest to untouchable:

Mark Teixeira -- nearly the AL MVP
Alex Rodriguez -- contract is too high
Victor Martinez -- His counting stats in Boston are going to be SICK!
BJ Upton -- Call me stubborn, but I refuse to believe he will hit that poorly again.

Stud closers:

Mariano Rivera -- he is not slowing down
Huston Street -- just signed a 3-year extension and has the job cemented. His peripherals show significantly more value than his name recognition suggests.
David Aardsma -- no Putz. No Morrow. This guy provide his mettle last year and has the closer's job nailed down.

Absolutely keeper-quality:

Stephen Drew -- the young SS is just waiting to bust out with a 25+ HR season
Chris Young -- 25-25 OF's don't grow on trees. Had an awful first few months but turned it on BIG TIME in August and September
Chipper Jones -- has another year or two of .400+ OBP to help a team win
Nyjer Morgan -- .369 OBP and 42 steals. He's a young Juan Pierre. The Nats are in love with him and he's expected to run wild with a full-time green light on the basepaths.

There's lots to be had here. Draft picks, prospects and keepers all needed. A stud starting pitcher will get my attention the most. Don't delay!! Fantasy football season is over! It's never too early!
 
482Guru
      ID: 330592710
      Thu, Jan 21, 2010, 17:40 		I got the league renewal email today from CBS. The price for this year is $150 if paid by February 9. After that, it jumps to $180. So if we are going to stay put, I should pay it by then.

I'll diary it to pay by that date. If anyone wants to seriously consider a different site, now is the time to investigate and decide.
 
483R9
      Leader
      ID: 02624472
      Fri, Jan 22, 2010, 09:05 		Hah, I hadn't followed the off-season moves too much. It seems as though half my offense got traded to the Yankees.

As usual I have way too many keeper-quality guys.

The sure-bets:

Joe Mauer
Chase Utley

The maybe's: (I can only keep 7 of these guys?!?)

Jason Bartlett - Breatout year, reminds me of Renteria in his prime (fantasy-wise anyway)
Bobby Abreu - Still good for his 100-15-100-30-.390 line
Curtis Granderson - 120-30-100-30 maybe? Or do we get the 2nd half dissapointment?
Carlos Gonzalez - Breakout year possibilities...
Brett Gardner - Starter? 40 SB's?

Cliff Lee - 3 SP's I really like, can probably only keep two. So I guess I'm moving one?
Chad Billingsley
Brett Anderson

Jose Valverde - Ditto closers, probably keep one and trade one.
Bobby Jenks

After my epic fail last year that involved trading a ton of picks, I'll be in the market for um... picks. Lots of em. So gogogogogo
 
484Great One
      ID: 46051211
      Fri, Jan 22, 2010, 09:39 		I'm going to be in the market for a SP, offering a mid round pick.
But I have no plans to do so until closer to the keeper deadline when I can get a better feel of things are going in spring training.
 
485 Peter N.
      ID: 00432213
      Fri, Jan 22, 2010, 14:46 		It's nice to see I'm not the only one thinking about baseball. I've sent out a few fliers, but might as well go ahead and make a league wide post. Here it goes...

Leadoff
Miguel Cabrera - Assuming he stays away from the booze
Jacoby Ellsbury - Advertised as a one-trick pony, but he does much more
C.C. Sabathia - Ace on the defending World Champs

On Deck
Justin Morneau - He's from Canada. He's tough.
Josh Beckett - Texas born and bred so you can't beat that! This coming from a Texan. :-)
Javier Vazquez - 200+ Ks and 20 wins possible on a loaded Yankee team.
Francisco Rodriguez - Seems like he's been in the league forever, but he's only 28. He's still the K machine that got him his nickname.

In the hole
Brad Hawpe - OBP monster with documented 20+ HR seasons. RBI opps should be plentiful.
Nick Swisher - Another OBP monster. This will be the year he goes over 30 HRs. I know bh wants him.
Max Scherzer - I have high hopes for this kid. This is assuming his right arm doesn't fall off.
Trevor Hoffman - Somebody forgot to tell him how old he is. Had a career year and there's no reason to believe why he can't keep it going.
Alfonso Soriano - Sexy name, but the stats didn't back it up last year. Will he rebound?


Ace in the hole
Julio Borbon - Batting leadoff for the Rangers. He will be a great source of runs and steals.

Considering I don't have a pick until the 5th round, that'd be a good place to start. I'm also willing to do 2 for 1, 3 for 1 type of deals. I'd also consider prospects. I'm looking for pretty much anything and open to any ideas so fire away if you have one.
 
486Species
      Dude
      ID: 07724916
      Fri, Jan 22, 2010, 16:12 		Copycats. I thought I had an exclusive! Geez.
 
487Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Jan 25, 2010, 19:22 		I can't even seem to find what is new this eyar for CBS.
 
488blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, Jan 26, 2010, 16:42 		Nothing. That's why we should play on ESPN.
 
489Great One
      ID: 480151723
      Wed, Jan 27, 2010, 19:50 		Trade
Pete acquires Grady Sizemore
GO acquires Justin Morneau
 
490Peter N.
      ID: 220522718
      Wed, Jan 27, 2010, 19:52 		Confirmed
 
491blue hen
      ID: 8115717
      Wed, Jan 27, 2010, 20:09 		Sweet. Glad I didn't make the trade. Congrats to you both.
 
492Toral
      ID: 4155487
      Thu, Jan 28, 2010, 07:02 		Like everyone else I have too many keepers. (I think it's impossible for everyone to have too many keepers, isn't it?)

Available for draft choices/prospects/in a 1-for-2 trade, or maybe for younger players:

Carlos Beltran
Torii Hunter
Roy Oswalt
Jhonny Peralta
Ben Sheets
 
493Slizz
      ID: 590452821
      Thu, Jan 28, 2010, 22:46 		BH glad he didn't make a trade?!?!?!
 
494 beastiemiked
      ID: 10432914
      Fri, Jan 29, 2010, 15:43 		Need to trade 2 of these guys. All very keeper worthy and young(except Franklin). A rebuilding team should jump all over these guys and not the old fogies that some of the others are trying to pawn.

Ian Stewart - Probably the most valuable of these guys. Is 2nd base eligible which is huge.Everth Cabrera - .341 OBP and 25 steals in half a year. Should be a shoe in for 40+ steals this year. Ryan Franklin - A top 10 closer for a good team. Dexter Fowler - Another sb machine. Brings a decent OBP and at 6-4 has room to develop power. Johnny Cueto - In line for a breakout season. Young pitchers are always a gamble but all signs point to him being a stud SP.

Might trade Jose Reyes or Ryan Zimmerman if the right trade presents itself. Come with good offers since both these guys are stud worthy.

 
495 Great One
      ID: 8047279
      Fri, Jan 29, 2010, 16:04 		We are looking for one manager for Dirty Dozen, anyone from this league gets first dibs. You can beat Blue Hen there too!
 
496Peter N.
      ID: 220522718
      Sun, Jan 31, 2010, 00:10 		Trade Alert
Guru acquires C.C. Sabathia
Pete acquires Ian Kinsler
 
497Great One
      ID: 2415517
      Mon, Feb 01, 2010, 11:29 		I'd like to explore moving prospects Aroldis Chapman and Mike Moustakous in conjunction with players/picks to get a good SP.
 
498Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Mon, Feb 01, 2010, 17:40 		RE: 489 I have been swamped lately and just saw this trade. Offseason trades are enabled on CBS so you can offer and accept there which will alert the commishes.
 
499Slizz
      ID: 590452821
      Mon, Feb 01, 2010, 23:17 		nice trade guru!
 
500 blue hen
      Dude
      ID: 710321114
      Tue, Feb 02, 2010, 15:07 		I have too many outfielders - Braun, Kemp, Choo, Ethier, and Adam Jones. I am looking to trade one of the latter three for a first baseball (or other position) of equal quality. Please try to stick to equal quality, and I'm not interested in any unbalanced trades at this point (unless they involve picks in either direction).
 
501beastiemiked
      ID: 23127320
      Wed, Feb 03, 2010, 21:27 		Let's get that lottery ball rolling. Last year at this time we had a draft order already :)
 
502Ref
      Donor
      ID: 539581218
      Fri, Feb 05, 2010, 14:20 		2010 Preseason Thread