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Forum: base
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Subject: Gurupie 20 2014 Pre-Season Discussion

Posted by: Species - [57862918] Mon, Jan 06, 2014, 23:50

Spring Training is only like 5 weeks away! Why not start up the Pre-Season thread for G20 Baseball???!? There are already some trades brewing, so don't get caught with your pants down!

As with every year, please confirm that you are indeed coming back. No real rush, we are very early.....but I am really excited for this season. We have a lot of really good teams chomping at the bit to unseat WG, who was rude enough to just show up and make this league his bitch......so work hard and be sure to knock him off of his high horse !!!

Pre-Season is also the time to bring up any rule changes for discussion, debate, and if there is enough support, we can put things to a vote. There was a lot of chatter regarding the timing of our P-Draft lottery......so if someone cares that much, you need to Champion the discussion! Everything is always on the table. While we have some covenants that are probably pretty sacred, in the end this is our league - for all 20 of us - so let's make it as good as we possibly can.

Good luck!

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Jan 06, 2014, 23:50

Some pre-season thoughts and even trade solicitations from our last thread:

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Wed, Dec 18, 2013, 19:12 Since fantasy football season is officially over, I'm starting to do some prep work for the 2014 prospect draft. One of the big surprises to me was Tanaka was already drafted...in the second round! Talk about a steal by mjd...

Meatwads - as long as you'd be an active participant on the board, you'd have my vote of approval. The activity is what makes this league great and it's truly unique.

I am already anxious to see who will be kept...

As for my squad I am finally in a position to be active this offseason:

Definite Keepers:
2B - Rendon
3B - Arenado
OF - Brown
OF - Arcia
SP - Fernandez
RP - Reed

Could-be Keepers:
1B/OF - Ruf
SS - Villar
SP - Lester
RP - Soria

Keepers in the right situation:
OF - Khris Davis
OF - Jake Marisnick (20/20 type?)
RP - Wilson (if he lands LAD job)
RP - Torres (see above)

Can't hurt to start some discussion!!

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Jan 06, 2014, 23:51

Species
ID: 57862918
Sat, Dec 21, 2013, 23:01 Tanaka was a great pick by mjd.....but he had to know it was at least 1 year before he was posted.....and it seems as if it's going to be two. But the nice thing is, you already have a No. 2 starter ready to go on Day 1 when he is finally posted.

I think Darvish was picked at least 1 year before he was posted. Pretty sure it was 2 years....

There are SEVERAL nice names at the top of the Prospect Draft this March. Particularly since I will own a high pick, I am quite excited!! :D

I've already turned down a trade offer this offseason. it's NEVER too early! I have several very interesting names:

- Pineda
- Paxton
- Leake
- Stephenson
- Foltynewitz
- Upton
- D'Arnaud
- Pederson

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Jan 06, 2014, 23:51

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 10:20 Happy New Year!

Just wanted to throw some names out there - you won't need to look up any of these guys. Looking for a big bat.

- Scherzer
- Corbin
- Perkins
- Rosenthal
- Grilli
- Rizzo
- Bautista
- Gyorko

Also have Chris Carter and Wilson Ramos, with more risk but plenty of upside.

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Jan 06, 2014, 23:51

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Jan 02, 2014, 11:07 I also have names you don't have to Google for sale, looking to package for an IF...

Nathan
Romo
Gio
Ellsbury
Dunn
Beltre
Granderson
Cuddyer
Beltran
Alexei

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 13:44

I have interest in acquiring SOLID closers pre-keepers that I then almost immediately flip for 2016 picks.

So....if you are not keeping a solid closer, drop me a line.

If you are interested in acquiring a solid closer post-keepers in exchange for 2016 picks, please drop me a line.
------------------

This also reminds me of another possible rule change that had some positive sentiment. .....that being a rule limiting how far in the future a team can trade picks. Two years seemed to be right. We just need to clarify how that is determined.

- Is it two drafts?
- is it two calendar years??

This distinction applies mostly in preseason. I.e. - can a trade of 2016 picks be made right now before the 2014 draft is started.

Thoughts??

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 17:39

I vote for 2016 trades opening up after the last pick of 2014 has been made.

Also, I'm in for 2014.

bmd
ID: 46943168
Tue, Jan 07, 2014, 20:49

Would like to retool the prize pool. Make the bottom 3 teams pay a little extra the following year. Payout a few more slots. Basically give every team an incentive to stay active and put in their best possible lineup.

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 11:00

Provided by Species

	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
1	GreatOne	blue hen	Species	Species	slizz	Species	Species
2	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	Species
3	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd
9	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	bmd	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral
13	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	Toral	allhair	allhair
17	darkside	darkside	Toral	Pete N.	Species	GreatOne	GoatLocker
18	blue hen	blue hen	R9	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Toral	Ref	slizz	Ref
20	Pete N.	WG	WG	WG	Pete N.	Judy	Nerfherders

	Round 8	Round 9	Round 10	Round 11	Round 12	Round 13	Round 14
1	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species
2	slizz	blue hen	slizz	slizz	Ref	Jaydog	WG
3	Pete N.	bmd	WG	WG	Pete N.	Pete N.	GreatOne
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	WG	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	darkside
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	blue hen	GoatLocker
9	Judy	Judy	WG	WG	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GreatOne	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	GreatOne	allhair	Ref
13	R9	R9	blue hen	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	slizz	Species
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair
17	GreatOne	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne
18	blue hen	blue hen	slizz	Jaydog	blue hen	Pete N.	blue hen
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref
20	slizz	Judy	WG	WG	WG	WG	WG

GO
ID: 59918108
Wed, Jan 08, 2014, 12:07

I would be a fan of some small last place penalties... like 5 or 10 bucks. That gives them those bottom teams a small incentive to fight for 15th instead of 18th and a better pick etc.

I'd be open to moving down my 1st round pick for a bunch of top half of the draft picks.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Jan 09, 2014, 13:46

Another thing I thought of last night that would dampen some tanking, if you win a spot in the lottery you are ineligible to win a spot next year. Would like to see that in both the prospect draft and the regular draft. However, if you hit the lottery in one draft you would still be eligible in the other. So you could potentially have the top pick in the prospect draft and supplemental draft in a given year but the following year the highest pick you could have in either draft is the #4 slot.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 09, 2014, 14:52

Love it - second.

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Jan 09, 2014, 18:08

10: I would be generally in favor of something in that vein. Needs more specificity, please.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 10:18

Simple.

If you won the lottery in last year's supp draft, you are removed from this year's, with 11 teams (unless a team leaps into top 6) left in the lottery.

If you won the lottery in last year's prospect draft, you are removed from this year's, with 11 teams (unless a team leaps into top 6) left in the lottery.

Starts with the March 2015 drafts, based on 2014 lottery results.

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 10:36

Back

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 11:13

13: Does a top 3 finish in the lottery constitute a "win" by this definition? ?? Or only the #1 pick.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 12:17

IMO, if you pick anywhere in the top 3 you shouldn't be eligible for any of the top 3 picks the following year. Of course, if you trade for someone else's pick and that pick hits the lottery than you'd obviously still get that top 3 pick.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 12:18

How would that work with traded picks?

Easy example to use is Species' lottery pick which turned into Jose Fernandez.

If that same scenario was to play out where he trades the rights to that pick to another owner, who would get penalized?

The person who traded the pick or the benefactor of good luck?

I don't think any rule change like that should be implemented until the 2015 season, where it would based on the results of this season's respective drafts.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 12:19

Sorry bh, I didn't read the last sentence before crafting my response to 13.

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 12:34

I'm in.

We'll see about Tanaka. He's in for a big pay day, but who knows if he'll live up to his lofty expectations, though a 24-0 season is pretty impressive in any league.

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 13:05

I'm in with my youngsters. Details to follow once football calms down...

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 15:50

One of my friends posted this on Facebook a while back:

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/86940/the-nbas-possible-solution-for-tanking-good-bye-to-the-lottery-hello-to-the-wheel

...just throwing it out there.

Would we just apply it to the p draft?

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 15:57

It would apply to both draft. I saw that about the NBA. Definitely interesting but I think the teams that are at the top should be picking at the end of the draft.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 16:12

Apologies for the spam...but I'd actually be more in support of something like that rather than penalizing a back2back winner.

The only benefit for at the bottom is that primo p-draft selection. The s-draft can help a tad in the first five picks or so, but beyond that it's so wide open that a guy selected say 7th overall could conceivably be there in 2-3 rounds based on team need.

Nerfherders
ID: 161121811
Fri, Jan 10, 2014, 17:34

In.

I probably wouldn't support the lottery rule only because it's so hard as it is to get better in this league. As with my experience in other baseball keeper leagues, you need talent to get talent. So if you have none, it might take two or three of those lottery picks to compile enough talent to even break into the middle tier.

I also don't see the objective of this rule. If it is to stop tanking, then there are other ways to deal with this, Honestly in most seasons only perhaps the top 5 teams are playing for anything, the other 15 have no incentive to keep up their teams in the second half. I think a tiered finish award could be a better incentive. For example RIFC leagues always have top 3 / top 7 to play for, but without payouts I am not sure what those incentives could be in our league.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 01:04

It's really never going to hurt the bad teams that much. You are never picking lower than 3 spots from your finish. If you finish in last the lowest you'll ever pick is 4th.

The more I think about it, it's less about preventing tanking and more about preventing teams from getting lucky and winning 2 years in a row.

I don't know. I'm thinking out loud. I'd much prefer the penalty for the bottom 3 teams if I had to pick one new rule but I think both rules would enhance our league.

youngroman
ID: 41135272
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 04:13

After some fantasy vacation I hope that I am fresh for a long baseball season. I'll be back.

just looked at my team and it seems that I have too many keeper candidates. here is a list:
definitive keepers
Robinson Cano, 2B
Troy Tulowitzki, SS
Sean Segura, SS
Hunter Pence, OF
Cole Hamels, SP
Hisashi Iwakuma, SP
Julio Teheran, SP
Greg Holland, RP

keeper material
Billy Butler, 1B
Norichika Aoki, OF
Marlon Byrd, OF
Angel Pagan, OF
Chris Archer, SP
Jake Peavy, SP
AJ Griffin, SP
Neftali Feliz, RP (closer?)

I can't keep them all, even if I wanted to. anyone interested in any of these players? especially Tulowitzki, Butler or the younger pitchers Archer and Griffin?

R9
ID: 1032117
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 08:32

In for 2014! Will probably be in the market for an SP, willing to dangle Kimbrel or That speedy CIN CF that might just set some records this year...

PeteN.
ID: 50748615
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 12:44

I'm in and would not support a change to the lottery rule. In Dirty Dozen, whoever finishes last has to pay the $10 for the draft the following year. I'd prefer something along those lines over changing the lottery rule. Most times, the team that has the best chance to win doesn't.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 14:21

I'll support a last place penalty that will be rolled into the 2015 and on dues...but won't be for a change like that to the p draft unless we go that wheel route (ie the grantland proposal).

I wholeheartedly agree with what Nerf said in 24.

YR - those are some nice leftovers.

BMD - when you gonna trade me Taveras? :)

darkside
ID: 1425647
Sat, Jan 11, 2014, 15:56

I'm in.

I also like the idea of preventing tanking, or at least give rebuilding teams some incentive to field a competitive team, but don't know if there's an easy way to effectively do that. Thanks for starting the conversation.

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Jan 13, 2014, 19:36

In:
Species
bmd
blue hen
GreatOne
Toral
judy
slizz
mjd
Nerf
darkside
R9
Pete
Guru (by default! lol)
youngroman

Crickets:
Ref (as usual)
WG
allhair
Jaydog
Tosh
GoatLocker

Not very worried actually. Ref might cry about time but given his Puig/Hanley-induced Viagra and high finish, he'll be back. The others I'm sure just aren't checking.

WG
ID: 59552022
Mon, Jan 13, 2014, 20:23

Sorry, I'm in. Was checking and reading, just not responding.

Anyone want to make a trade???

YR, sent an email your way... please let me know if interested at all. Thanks.

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Jan 13, 2014, 23:01

Given that I have Xander Bogaerts, young SS stud Francisco Lindor will likely be involved in trade talks this spring. Here's one updated Top 50 prospects list that touts him.

Not a power guy - 10-15 HR - but a high average, high contact, high OBP with speed, lots of runs and decent RBI.

Francisco Lindor

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Mon, Jan 13, 2014, 23:31

I'm in. Just making you ask twice. :)

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 09:45

We use Kafenatid here right? I do like our Dirty Dozen rule of paying for next years draft for last place, or even splitting between 5 each between last 2 guys.

Species
ID: 57862918
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 10:50

35: Sure do! In fact, I would support putting that rule in effective IMMEDIATELY. That douche who tanked it last year deserves to PAY!

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 10:59

I was thinking extending it further than just the bottom team. Something like 18th pays 5, 19th pays 10 and 20th pays 15. That way we could extend the prize pool to the top 10 and give all the middling teams something to fight for.

Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 11:03

That's a great idea, bmd! Team stuck in the middle have little incentive, sometimes, after midseason so this could keep interest going.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 11:12

Are any of you actually in it for the money? Maybe we should have real stakes, like finishing bottom 5 for 3 years in a row means you get replaced.

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 11:14

Like European futbol!

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 13:35

Approve of both, especially bh's. bh's it sounds awesome and I have a proposal even if he was half-joking:

***EFFECTIVE 2015***

-Instead of relegating 3 teams like the epl, only 1 team gets relegated.
-The relegated team keeps 9, their prospects, and is excluded from that season's s-draft.
-The relegated team is included in the p-draft but not the lottery.
-The promoted (expansion) team gets the first 9 picks in the s-draft and cannot trade them so they can establish their 9 keepers.
-The promoted team is automatically entered into the lottery for the first round with top 3 odds.

That way, the team who finishes last knows there are severe consequences should they "tank". It wouldn't dilute the talent pool too much as only 9 keepers are affected.

Thoughts?

Species - it's only the preseason...give Ref some time.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 13:40

With the first 9 picks they should be able to field a competitive enough team where they shouldn't finish last.

The other team just sits out a year and gets back in the league in 2016 once the 2015 team finishes last. Yeah, it sucks but don't finish last!

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Jan 14, 2014, 23:26

31 - I'm in. I must have thought I fell into the default category.

jaydog
ID: 1761221
Wed, Jan 15, 2014, 08:35

re: 31

I'm in too. Have some tough decisions to make this year around whether my team is good enough to compete. I have a decent, albeit aging, stable of keepers coming off down years. A few rebounds, and I could be in the thick of it.

Keepers:
Yadier Molina
Joey Votto
Brandon Phillips
Ian Desmond
Jay Bruce
Josh Hamilton
Johnny Cueto
Matt Cain
Matt Harvey - Ughh

Fringe Keepers:
Aramis Ramirez
Fernando Rodney

I'll listen to all trade offers! Looking forward to the season.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Jan 15, 2014, 13:55

In addition to what I said above, I'm looking to use picks to upgrade players. Mostly looking at picks in round 4-7 to upgrade guys like Rizzo or Gyorko.

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Wed, Jan 15, 2014, 14:40

R9-sent you an email.

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Jan 15, 2014, 19:47

41: I personally would not be supportive of a relegation system. This is a TWENTY team keeper league that requires a lot of attention and diligence. I also believe it requires continuity. ....a constant shuffling of owners, in my opinion, does not improve the league.

We have a lot of ideas on anti-tanking but no large consensus. I agree with bh that I am unlikely to be motivated by the money aspect of the league. Sure, a little last place kangaroo court-style financial penalty is fun, but as an example I would not have allowed that to alter my 2013 strategy.

I need to stress that someone needs to drive it towards a consensus we can vote on. I will do that when it becomes obvious.....but we are not there yet.

There has been no discussion on proposing a rule regarding the timing of the Prospect Draft Lottery. I don't want to appear to be ignoring that as a commissioner......but as a league owner I am not going to be supporting that.

Nerfherders
ID: 1511182416
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 01:22

I would not support that either. Have you considered that sometimes, most of the time, a team in last place got there despite trying not to? Nobody goes into a season wanting to be in last place. If you finish April and May with 30 points using your drafted players, you probably aren't digging yourself out of that hole.

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 10:17

Archer trade includes my sixth for roman's 14th.

We take the early lead in the trades category.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 10:23

Species, why not just propose something like

1. "Do you approve of a "loser fee" for the bottom team(s)?"

2. "If so, how many teams would you like to see it extended to? A) 1 B)2 C) 3 "

If it passes we can then send a followup proposal of how much that fee would be.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 11:15

I would vote against a loser fee but would not be opposed to it, if it was voted in. I'd be more likely to vote in support of abolishing money in general in G20.

I think 48 says it well - no one ever tries to finish last; they just wind up there. How can we keep the guy who's in 15th in May interested in competing?

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 11:17

How about a supplemental prize? Before the season, everyone submits their projection of the final standings. Whoever beats his projection by the most slots gets a prize.

Or just a general voted prize for "tried the hardest at the bottom of the standings" like Slizz or Species would have won in 2013.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 12:53

Trade Announcement

Blue Hen trades his 2015 12th rounder and Chris Carter, OF, HOU
Slizz trades his 2015 8th rounder

Carry on.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 12:56

Confirmed.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 13:58

Brett Gardner available to best offer. Not looking for much. He finished above guys like Dominic Brown, Desmond Jennings, and Carlos Beltran last year.

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 16:28

Ok. This is probably a naive position. I don't think you try to finish last, but sometimes your team just stinks no matter what you try to do and someone has to finish last. Sometimes it might look like you are not making any moves to help your team, but maybe there are no moves to make.

The year I finished third I had no idea what I was doing (do I yet??), but the guys I had did well until mid August. I cannot micromanage my team the way bh does. Not in my genes which is perhaps why I am able to be more successful in rifc -- fewer games and therefore fewer roster jiggering. Also I like to get a group of players and trust them...unless something catastrophic happens.

Baseball is a freaky, streaky sport and so much can happen that you can't recover from. The fact that we have prospects and keepers complicates things too.

It's no fun to finish at the bottom, but somebody has to be there. Unless there is real evidence (and what would that be?) of tanking...for draft position... But does that really make a huge difference? Also some teams have long term goals that take time.

Just my initial two cents... Probably not worth much.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 16:51

It's not so much blatant tanking that is going on. More of a disregard to improve. After I fell out of contention my only concern was getting guys that I could either trade last year or might potentially be keepers. Picking up some schmo to get me 5 ip and a win never crossed my mind. Plus, there were times I missed switching my guys in and out of the lineup. That's something that would have never happened if I was near the top. Ultimately it's about providing entertainment to those of us that have fallen out of contention. The penalty will let us extend the prize pool and give almost every team an incentive to always put in their best lineup possible.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 16:53

Anybody have a math expert in the back pocket? I'd like to see correlations between moves made and finish in the standings. I guaran-damn-tee there is a correlation.

Interested to get the take of why people are in G20. Is it the high level of competition? The money? Getting to make fun of Ref?

PeteN.
ID: 50748615
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 20:05

58: Money is not a factor for me. I'm in these 20 (baseball & basketball) / 24 (football) team leagues because of the high level of competition and camaraderie.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 21:54

What Pete said :)

WG
ID: 59552022
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 22:44

What Slizz said Pete said.

allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50902421
Thu, Jan 16, 2014, 23:29

Back for more, by the way. Read up on the thread the other day and forgot to post...!

I echo the sentiments that a $10 loser fee isn't really going to make a difference. It could provide some motivation if there are a couple teams actually close enough down the stretch trying to avoid the stigma of last place, but if you're actually tanking, it's not going to stop you... and if you're undeniably in last place, why kick sand in the manager's face? It's not like it's a $200 fine - which would be practically uncollectable anyway. Plus, as the pendulum of the balance of the universe makes it return trip this season, I'd probably end up paying the fine, so it's hard for me to support it. :)

Species
ID: 57862918
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 11:00

Ref only one not to check in :P

bmd - I'm not seeing much consensus/support on the last place penalty idea.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 12:57

Re: 59-61. Does this league meet your need for competition? Any way we could improve it?

Side note: I am looking to acquire a 1st round p-draft pick that is lottery eligible. If you have one, please let me know.

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 14:56

Nice trade guys. Good diversification for both teams.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 14:56

Trade Announcement

Blue Hen trades Ryan Braun
Yokel trades Troy Tulowitzki, Pick 4.15 (2014), Roman's 2nd Rd. p-pick (2014)

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 14:57

(all picks are 2014- I'm just a terrible typist)

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 15:00

Btw, Roman gets pick 14.18, which has now been traded 4 times.

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 15:55

Species, I count at least 4 people that said they liked it or something similar. Only a few that were really against it and a few that didn't really voice one way or the other. Definitely enough for it to be voted on. We've voted on rules in the past with way less support.

"I would be a fan of some small last place penalties... like 5 or 10 bucks. That gives them those bottom teams a small incentive to fight for 15th instead of 18th and a better pick etc."

"I also like the idea of preventing tanking, or at least give rebuilding teams some incentive to field a competitive team, but don't know if there's an easy way to effectively do that. Thanks for starting the conversation."

"That's a great idea, bmd! Team stuck in the middle have little incentive, sometimes, after midseason so this could keep interest going."

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 16:02

BTW, I'm definitely not in the league for the "money". I'm just constructively trying to figure out ways we can make the league more enjoyable for half the league that is out of it in July-Oct.

BH
ID: 1207919
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 16:10

I thought some more about the supplemental prize idea. I suggest the league votes on a manager who finishes 11-20 who "did the best" in the second half, and we note it, alongside the winners, for posterity.

youngroman
ID: 41135272
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 17:33

I confirm both trades

Archer to Species for his 6.01
Tulo + 4.15 + yr's 2nd prospect pick to Blue Hen for Braun + 14.18

on the last place penalty:
don't like the relegation idea. as said previously, this is not european football where 3 or 4 out of 20 teams go down to the 2nd league, which we don't have.
since some (or most) of us are not in this league for the money, it doesn't matter if the last place team needs to pay an additional fee.

I would extend the suggestion of Blue Hen. lets remember the stats at the all-star break and compare them with the stats accumulated in the 2nd half. compare the points that you had at the break with the points you have in the virtual 2nd half standings. the team with the largest difference gets the "Most Improved Team" award. this would benefit teams that really suck early but try to get things turned around in the 2nd half. the stat source for this could be the weekly totals that are available here

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 18:52

Do we have any ballpark dates for prospect, etc drafting? I left my stuff up north and need to send a friend into my house to find it and send it! Aagh!! I made all kinds of notes...

BH
ID: 1207919
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 19:37

In case you're keeping track, the trade of Ryan Braun leaves me with one remaining player left to me by Trip: David Price, who was a prospect. Other recent trades to thin those ranks include Matt Kemp and Elvis Andrus (prospect).

He also left me Adam Jones, Russell Martin, Jose Valverde, and Chad Cordero, among others.

Species
ID: 57862918
Fri, Jan 17, 2014, 22:36

75: Judy - I have no idea. I would take a look at last year's thread and make a rough estimation based upon that. I think the season starts a few days sooner this year.....so take that into account as well.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Sat, Jan 18, 2014, 01:50

Re: 74 - just throwing another idea out there:

In the bottom 3-5 teams, would an incentive of second half improvement (total points) getting the top p draft lottery odds be something people would be in favor of?

WG
ID: 59552022
Sat, Jan 18, 2014, 15:28

Traded away lots of picks and depth last year in making a run at the title... not left with much now.

Any interest in these guys? Pick or paired with any of my keepers for a slightly better keeper.
Mark Trumbo
Jonathan Lucroy
Francisco Liriano
Jarrod Parker
Matt Garza
Rafael Soriano
Rex Brothers

Also open to moving
Elvis Andrus
Starling Marte

as I probably have too much speed and could use more pop.

BH
ID: 1207919
Sat, Jan 18, 2014, 22:50

I like the Slizz idea in 78 in some form.

Note: the first game this year is March 22, way earlier than usual. Two games then a week without. Personally, I'd like to be done drafting by the 22nd- anyone feel otherwise?

Toral
ID: 1710311217
Sun, Jan 19, 2014, 12:41

Wouldn't Slizz 78 just lead to tanking/slacking in the first half so you could improve the most in the second?

BH
ID: 1207919
Sun, Jan 19, 2014, 18:07

I thought about that. But most teams probably don't tank in the first half, and if they do, it's not a guarantee to get the high pick. Incrementally, we're better off.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 17:01

Just throwing ideas out there...that's all. I am fine with the current system, but it seems as if there is a movement to make a change.

That said, the bottom 3-5 teams are all pretty bad. Some are hit with the injury bug, others just devoid of talent...it at least offers some incentive to aggressively set ones lineup to meet those thresholds despite placing in, say, 16th. BMD hit the nail on the head in his post above. I know if I saw an opportunity to pickup a pitcher, I did it and if he had keeper potential I held. If not I at least hit some innings.

Another thing, I know we discussed IP limits in the past thread...are there any changes anticipated for the upcoming season?

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Mon, Jan 20, 2014, 19:41

Also looking to move Dom Brown or Anthony Rendon for speed...

Ref
ID: 34731299
Wed, Jan 22, 2014, 15:13

Guys, I will come back for another year. Blame Slizz for talking me into returning. If you need me, please email me. I might not always be able to get back to you quickly, but that is the best bet. If I don't respond, hit me again as I might have seen your email but couldn't respond right then and forgot. I apologize in advance.

I quickly skimmed this thread and I would be in favor of a cap on moves made. I am also fine with whatever you decide on fees for bottom of the list or whatever. Please email if there comes time for a vote. Once March/April comes my travel schedule will slow way down. I haven't even looked at my team but I know I have more keepers than I can keep. Email if you want to talk trades. I will take a look at my team soon and try and see where I stand.

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Jan 22, 2014, 16:30

Ref and Judy,

I am very concerned about your claims that you don't/won't have time for your G20 team. That flies directly in the face of what Pete said in post 59 about "high level of competition and camaraderie." Both of you have been key contributors to this league, but it's been a while, and it looks like 2014 will again be a quiet year for both of you.

Meanwhile, Meatwads is chomping at the bit to join us. I think most people are pretty happy with the last guy like that who got into this league.

Ref
ID: 34731299
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 02:38

bh, it is the baseball offseason. Relax. Besides, even if it wasn't, I could still out-manage you and that's what you're afraid of. Quality > Quantity. Maybe you should let Meatwads (or anyone) run your team for a season with all of your stud players so you could win a title. :) Seeing as how I have missed the top 4 or 5 only one time in what 12 or 13 years of this game with several titles, I don't think you have to worry about my level of competition. I'd be more concerned with your ability to mess up a sure thing.

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 08:25

Oh SNAP!!

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 10:35

Glad to see some things never change.

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 10:53

As someone who makes moves closer to the # that Blue Hen does... I have no problem with those who choose to make less cause they are comfortable with their standard lineup.

I don't necessarily link moves made to attentiveness. I had one of the least amount of moves made last year (and was middle to lower part of the pack) til late when I rotated some pitcher and catchers. And it was one of my best seasons vs. previous years when I would rotate like crazy and kill my OBP, ERA, WHIP etc.

Toral
ID: 1710311217
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 12:05

Right. I usually make a lot of moves, but there are years when you don't have any trash at the bottom of the team that you can just recycle.

Toral
ID: 1710311217
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 12:12

Right. I usually make a lot of moves, but there are years when you don't have any trash at the bottom of the team that you can just recycle.

R9
ID: 230372314
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 15:37

87, :)

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 16:05

Re 87: Though I am ecstatic the smack talk has resumed, I challenge the notion that Ref could outmanage me under most circumstances. I do heartily congratulate him on finishing ahead of me in 2013.

Also glad to see people defending themselves here; that shows me that you do care about G20, which was really all I wanted.

Meatwads
ID: 24091823
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 19:52

I'm chompin' guys! Yum, yum, yum! I'm hungry like Russell Wilson trying to get in to the film room at 4:30 AM. I want Skittles like Marshawn Lynch. I want Michael Crabtree to talk about me like Richard Sherman! This is a football league right??

Species
ID: 57862918
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 22:12

I don't necessarily correlate a high number of in-season roster moves to success......but I have no doubt that a lack of moves in an overall sense --- trades to build your team, trades to improve draft position, trades to get top prospects, trades to leverage assets --- are all absolutely critical to long term success. I can count on a hand and a half the teams with whom I am disappointed (as a team owner) by a general malaise/lack of direction.

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 23:06

Re 86. Knock it off bh. I don't work at espn so I don't get the up to the second moves in mlb. I don't have an encyclopedia on every player at my beck and call. I check the site pretty much every day looking to make sure the best team is on the field, but I do not have the resources you have.

So, knock it off.

Where did I say I did not have time for my team? Quote me where I said that please.

I said I do not micromanage my team. Sometimes I read about a move I might consider but no, bh got there first because I checked at supper time and the move was made at lunch by bh. I do things during the day. I am not wedded to the mlb hotlines, second by second. Some of us have jobs or other things in our lives that require our attention.

So knock it off bh.

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Jan 23, 2014, 23:09

Re 86.

Bh, upon further review, I resent your implications and innuendoes.

You owe me an apology, here, on this site, now.

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Fri, Jan 24, 2014, 16:32

Boy...that escalated quickly!

That Escalated Quickly - Anchorman

Ref asserted his dominance as the alpha dog in this league. However, bh just wants what's best for the league and means no ill will...

100

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Jan 24, 2014, 22:16

Not really. Bh wants what's best for bh.

101

Perm Dude
ID: 431013412
Fri, Jan 24, 2014, 23:19

For BH, that is what is best for the league, Judy.

102

bmd
ID: 46943168
Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 13:35

Bh has you guys ruffled. He's as harmless as a blue hen.

104

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 17:49

OK, question that I can't find the answer for in the constitution.

What are the minimum games for positional eligibility?

Thanks

105

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 20:10

-20 from previous season.
-10 in current to gain eligibility.

106

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 21:43

Thanks Slizz.
That is what I thought, but wasn't sure.

107

GO
ID: 01020815
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 11:12

Damn, Yahoo has Prospect slots now? ESPN is on notice. Hopefully this lights a fire under them.

108

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 13:02

Time to move to Yahoo.

109

GO
ID: 01020815
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 13:44

The one problem Yahoo still has is the lack of league size -- I think its only like 16. Maybe its 20. I know I always check for G24 and its not big enough. Maybe its 20.

110

Slizz
ID: 491136917
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 14:30

I would wholeheartedly welcome a move to Yahoo.

111

GO
ID: 01020815
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 15:06

I have previously preferred ESPN to Yahoo on MLB -- but the prospect thing would be a huge gain for this particular league.

112

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 15:30

Prospect slots are a great add, yes, but I'm not sure how they handle some specific situations. For example, what about when a guy is in the majors, but still a prospect by our league rules? Will Yahoo still let us fill the slot? And what if someone is in the slot who is no longer NA? Will it be as hard to get them out of the slot as it is to get someone out of the IR slot?

And while I no longer have a horse in the game, I still feel the ESPN experience is vastly better - the web experience, the apps, the possibility that we might get relevant alerts someday. And if we move again, we lose a lot of history, again. I'm annoyed at all the history we've lost from CBS and am nervous to lose it again. I would vote ESPN, and it's not terribly close for me.

Anyone want to play on MLB.com?

113

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Mon, Jan 27, 2014, 15:35

I guess it's time to unstealth the website initiative. Check out the G20 Baseball Website. I put this together in an effort to organize our league better. There's still room for improvement, but it's a start.

115

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Jan 28, 2014, 21:41

Phillies is screwing with Ruf by signing the aged Abreu and Byrd. Give the kid a chance. At least he would play for a few more years than those guys and his defense can't be any worse. Amaro is ruining this team.

117

Species
ID: 57862918
Tue, Jan 28, 2014, 22:42

So......MLB has the Dodgers and D-Backs down in Arizona on the 22nd and 23rd of March, which would wreck havoc with our normal calendar.

Do we:

1) Start our entire preseason calendar -- keeper deadlines, P-Draft, Supp-Draft, etc. -- 8 or 9 days earlier??

2) Ignore the games and have teams with LAD and AZ players "miss" games.

Neither is appealing. This was last year's calendar:

Keepers due Thursday March 7th
- Prospect keepers due Friday March 8th
- Prospect draft starts Sunday March 10th
- Supplemental draft turned on Wednesday March 13th
- Supplemental draft clock starts Friday March 15th

If we have to fit all of this in earlier, we could have these dates all starting March 1st. That is not appealing.

At all.

Thoughts?

118

Species
ID: 57862918
Tue, Jan 28, 2014, 22:42

117: down in *Australia

119

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Tue, Jan 28, 2014, 23:48

Gotta count those games. Have keepers due the 6th, draft starts that evening. Start Supplemental draft 12 hours prospect draft ends.

120

slizz
ID: 52050296
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 07:52

Judy - Personally, I don't have a problem with the Abreu signing. It's a spring training contract at no risk to the Phillies. That said, Amaro is the one that has to answer to a fanbase that is chomping at the bit to take him down by signing a guy who:

A) wasn't in baseball last year and B) is an abortion on defense...

The minimum upside Amaro gains is far outweighed by the fact that the fanbase will just want to crush him when it fails...

122

slizz
ID: 52050296
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 07:57

RE: 117 - I'm fine with the timeline...but as bmd said, the stats for the LAD and AZ players have to count towards the regular season.

If, for whatever reason, the draft is not completed by the start of those games will the stats accrued be counted in ESPN?

123

Toral
ID: 1710311217
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 09:37

I vote for #2, notwithstanding being a Kershaw owner.

124

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 10:29

I vote for #1, but could go either way.

Supp draft, with clock, can start Monday March 11.

I support any motion to decrease the time limit.

125

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 13:38

Yeah......I think it would not be cool to count those games.

What we need is everyone to commit to tighter timeframes and less break between freezes and drafts. I will post a set of preliminary dates and deadlines.....but it is going to sneak up fast, so everyone needs to be ready!!

126

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 15:05

Side note: looking to package one of my four aces (Price, Sale, Corbin, Scherzer) with a hitter (Gyorko, Rizzo) and a closer (Perkins, Rosenthal, Grilli plus Benoit or Storen) for a big time hitter. Inquire within.

127

Ref
ID: 34731299
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 15:09

I think if they players are in your lineup and on your roster ESPN counts them. Also, for guys who have players on those teams you would lose games. Normally, we get through the draft pretty quickly. I'd like the tighter time frame and wherever we are in the draft if we don't get done--the stats would still count I think. It is not ideal, but those two games could also alter the S draft. Having all those off days in between games isn't ideal either but losing games is worse IMM.

128

PeteN.
ID: 530592918
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 19:59

I vote for #1. We can't lose those games.

129

Species
ID: 57862918
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 21:06

Prospective timeline:

- Keepers due Wednesday March 5th
- Prospect keepers due Thursday March 6th 9:00am
- Prospect draft starts Thursday March 6th 2:00pm
- Supplemental draft turned on Sunday March 9th
- Supplemental draft clock starts Monday March 10th

Less breaks in between......we finished the Prospect Draft in a day and a half last year......but this definitely requires people to be ready to draft when keepers are finalized - and someone (Guru?) needs to be available to run the P-Draft lottery.

Too aggressive?

130

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Jan 29, 2014, 22:34

120. The issue is what they are doing to ruf. He should be the starting RF.

131

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Jan 30, 2014, 09:53

I'm with Judy. Amaro sucks.

I have an alternative suggestion, mostly because starting a p-draft on Thursday afternoon risks running into the weekend.

- Keepers due Tuesday March 4th Noon
- Prospect keepers due Wednesday March 5th 9:00am
- Prospect draft starts Wednesday March 5th 2:00pm
- Supplemental draft turned on Friday March 7th
- Supplemental draft clock starts Monday March 10th

132

Nerfherders
ID: 161121811
Thu, Jan 30, 2014, 15:50

I have the same problem in the league I run. We are going to try to cram the draft into a 7 day period (only 10 teams). I will probably start the season and post-add drafted players if we are moving too slowly, giving teams the ability to start whoever they have for those two games. In a keeper league especially, you can't lock out starts from the likes of Kershaw, Goldschmidt, and Hanley, to name a few.

133

R9
ID: 400513115
Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 16:51

Any issue with having Keepers declared a few days before the p-draft starts? Its hard to get 180 names off a draft list in one night... We can keep all of 131's schedule, but maybe make the Keeper deadline March 2nd or something?

I know its spring training and some people are waiting on info, but two days isn't likely to change the world decision-wise, but will give us a day or two to get our spreadsheets ready. Just a thought.

134

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 19:10

I'm flexible with just about anything, but also agree that those games have to count.

135

Species
ID: 57862918
Fri, Jan 31, 2014, 22:32

133: Supplemental draft wouldn't start for 3 days after keepers.

I will highlight what prospect-eligible players have been kept as keepers for the Prospect Draft.

136

R9
ID: 23134221
Sun, Feb 02, 2014, 22:34

Right, I forgot that first draft is the p-draft.

138

GO
ID: 01020815
Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 15:16

Yahoo does go to 20 teams for MLB. Interesting development. Maybe its always been that way and it was just NFL that mainly we were looking to move.

139

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Feb 03, 2014, 21:48

Let's go with this as a proposed timeline:

- Keepers due Tuesday March 4th Noon
- Prospect keepers due Wednesday March 5th 9:00am
- Prospect draft starts Wednesday March 5th 2:00pm
- Supplemental draft turned on Saturday March 8th
- Supplemental draft clock starts Monday March 10th

140

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 09:57

I'm good with that timeline.

One other negative for Yahoo is position limits - not sure it's configurable, and I far prefer the ESPN limits.

141

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 10:39

You mean the number of games to be eligible at a position or the cap on games played by position?

142

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 13:22

Eligible.

143

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 14:10

Yes, they are lower than ESPN and I don't think you can edit that with either.

144

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Feb 04, 2014, 16:27

We should always keep our options open, website-wise......but I am not going to be the one to lead that charge. Anyone who wants to should do so and report their findings. Tops on my list is a good phone app.....that's what I use most of the time.

When ESP finally launches, I will email the league with the proposed timeline. It will sneak up on us quicker than you think.

145

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 14:56

CBS was 5 games current year or 10 games in the previous year. When we switched to ESPN, they didn't let us adjust and the limits were higher.

146

GO
ID: 01020815
Wed, Feb 05, 2014, 15:28

I believe Yahoo is consistent with CBS.

147

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 11:15

Wow, looks like Wilson Ramos is is going to hit 35 home runs in 2014.

148

GO
ID: 59918108
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 12:51

I'll bet you my entry fee he goes under 32.5

149

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 13:41

bh, you no longer work for ESPN. Don't need to continue linking those insider links. ;)

150

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 14:47

Both funny posts. And I don't think most people would complain if they had Ramos and he hit 27 homers. But he's 26, so if there was ever a year to take a big jump, this might be it.

151

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 15:38

Jason Castro is younger and had more hrs, higher OBP, and higher slg % than Ramos. He's also available.

152

Species
ID: 57862918
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 23:00

Wahooooo! The league site is back up and running. I finally checked the Website (vs. from my phone).....wonder how long its been waiting for me to sign on?? Oooops.

Let the next trades begin! I know there is more than an owner or two who had to really wait to see the site again before getting serious about a deal!

153

WG
ID: 59552022
Thu, Feb 06, 2014, 23:00

Jonathan Lucroy is ranked higher than both on ESPN, CBS, Razzball, and FakeTeams. He too is available.

154

slizz
ID: 3013119
Mon, Feb 10, 2014, 12:30

Not too hot of a stove, yet...

155

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Feb 10, 2014, 18:45

154: Seriously!! Wake up peeps!

156

WG
ID: 59552022
Mon, Feb 10, 2014, 19:52

Starling Marte + Mark Trumbo + Wilin Rosario (or some duo out of those 3) for a big OF bat? Anyone interested??

157

youngroman
ID: 41135272
Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 15:04

Today is a bad day for my team. an hour ago I read that Hamels won't be ready for opening day. a minute ago I read the same about Iwakuma.

this will be a long season if the injury bug already strikes me in February.

158

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 16:45

What would anyone be willing to give me for cliff lee? Just asking.

OF starter - good one - plus a prospect pick or kid is my starting point. Trying to go younger this year.

Send thoughts to my email please...

If you want to diss me about this offer, just don't. OK?

159

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Feb 12, 2014, 23:04

Jonathan Papelbon and Sonny Gray available. Looking for prospect picks or draft upgrades.

160

Species
ID: 57862918
Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 11:01

** Commissioner Directive **

I don't do this very often, so listen up.

PLEASE refrain from talking down other managers' players that they are throwing out there as available for trade. Everyone has value and that value is in the eye of the beholder.

We should avoid comments like:

- Gyorko is a waste of a keeper spot with that OBP
- Lincecum would make a great 6th starter in a rotation of 5
- Grilli would be great if his arm wasn't going to fall off

.....stuff like that as just examples out of thin air.

Pimping your own players in a generalized sense relative to other players who have been posted as available is fine. i.e. posts 151 and 153 are fine. Those posts deal with specific facts (post 151) or commonly available rankings (post 153) as a general comparison -- and they do so without specifically dissing/mentioning specific players.

Pretty please.

Thank you -- now back to trading.

161

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 11:18

Well put, Species. Especially those examples. Just in case anyone didn't catch his sarcasm:

- Jedd Gyorko and Robinson Cano were the only 2B to hit 23 or more homers last year. And Gyorko missed an entire month.
- Jason Grilli was dominant, and had a 1.07 season ERA (not WHIP) as late as June 21.
- Tim Lincecum threw a no-hitter and finished 19th in baseball with 193 strikeouts.

162

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 14:31

A little Prospect Keeper reminder:

GoatLocker and Jaydog's have traded their 1st round prospect picks. Youngroman has traded his 2nd round prospect pick.

GoatLocker has 3 prospects and must eventually trade, release or call up one.

Youngroman has two prospects. To meet the conditions of his trade, he must also trade, release or call up one.

Jaydog's has only one prospect, and must be sure not to acquire more than one in order to fulfill the conditions of his trade. As it stands now, he still has his own second round pick.

I will post a reminder of the rules and deadlines soon.

163

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 17:19

Wait. Youngroman has two prospects (Syndergaard and Jackson). He traded Archer. If he traded one of his picks, then he's exactly where he should be - he can do nothing, keep both prospects, and have no picks. Correct?

164

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 17:45

He traded a SECOND ROUND prospect pick. Not his first. I suppose he could keep 2 and substitute his 1st.....if he wants to give more value to the receiving party.

165

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Feb 13, 2014, 21:55

Just because Species brought it up, I have a question.
After naming my 9 keepers, can I call up two of my prospects?

Inquiring minds want to know.

166

youngroman
ID: 41135272
Fri, Feb 14, 2014, 03:47

my intention is to drop Jackson as a prospect, so that I have 2 picks, 1 for BH and one for me.

167

Species
ID: 57862918
Fri, Feb 14, 2014, 10:07

165: Excellent time for a reminder of the Preseason timeframe.......due dates......etc:

1) Keepers due Tuesday March 4th Noon

These are your 9 keepers from your roster. All players who were still eligible as prospects should have already been removed from your roster and "sent down" at season's end. If you have a player on your roster who you think is still prospect-eligible, please post here ASAP.

After keepers have been processed, you may exceed 9 players via trade, or by calling up any number of Propects.

2) Prospect keepers due Wednesday March 5th 9:00am

This is where you choose whether to keep or renounce a prospect. You may keep a maximum of 3 at this time. This is the only time in the whole year you may have no more than 3.

It is right before this deadline that you can do the "call up and renounce" move with your prospects. Questions? Post here.

Prospect picks are then assigned based upon whether or not you have less than 3 prospects. If you have 3 prospects, you do not get a new prospect draft pick. If you have 2 prospects, you get your 1st round pick........1 prospect you get your 1st and 2nd round pick, etc.

Once the Prospect picks are awarded, the Prospect Draft Lottery occurs. This lottery includes any teams that finished 6th through 20th in last year's standings (i.e. 'out of the money'). If a team in the bottom 14 does not have a prospect pick, the lottery is reduced by that number of teams. Teams in the money from last year are never in the lottery (outside of owning another team's pick).

3) Prospect draft starts Wednesday March 5th 2:00pm

Prospect draft will be held in a separate thread in the Standings Forum.

4) Supplemental draft turned on Saturday March 8th

Draft will be held on Kafenatid using the On The Clock software. Having the draft not turned on until Saturday gives Commissioners time to loan the keepers an enter in all of the draft trades into Kafenatid and allows teams to review their draft boards. Teams may make picks if they wish, but are not obligated to do so.

5) Supplemental draft clock starts Monday March 10th.

Normal rules for the clock, blackout times, etc.

6) Hopefully we are done before March 21st in time for the LAD/AZ games in Australia.

Questions? Let us know!

168

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Feb 14, 2014, 10:17

166: Exactly right.

165: Yes, you can announce Lee as a keeper, then call up Yelich and Gausman, and have two p-draft picks.

169

slizz
ID: 3013119
Fri, Feb 14, 2014, 11:06

FYI - I will be out of pocket from March 2nd - 6th at a school in New Mexico.

I will communicate with BH and WG to make my selection(s)...

170

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Feb 14, 2014, 21:21

Thanks BH.

171

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 20:26

I plan to declare nine keepers and then call up two prospects as last round keepers. That leaves me two prospects so I have one spot to draft.

That is legit, correct?

172

Species
ID: 57862918
Mon, Feb 17, 2014, 20:56

171: Yes, maam!

173

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Feb 18, 2014, 11:41

I am staring at possibly keeping 6 pitchers... so if anyone wants to offer some hitting for pitching I'm listening to offers for Moore and Gio + Romo or Nathan.

Also got leftover keeper worthy veteran hitters like Granderson, Napoli, Cuddyer and Beltran to package.

174

slizz
ID: 3013119
Tue, Feb 18, 2014, 14:25

Wish I had that problem!

176

darkside
ID: 81492120
Tue, Feb 18, 2014, 19:59

Species, just a heads up that the draft at draftime is labeled as 2013. Not really a problem until it's complete and sits next to the other 2013 draft (but since draftime has the year listed as well, it will be easy to differentiate). Just thought it was worth a mention. Thanks for taking care of everything!

177

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Feb 18, 2014, 20:34

** Trade announcement **

Guru receives:
Travis d'Arnaud
Francisco Lindor (from my prospect list)

Species receives:
Guru's 2014 1st round prospect pick
Somebody I will drop

178

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Feb 18, 2014, 20:37

Trade:

Species gets Guru's first round prospect pick in 2014

Guru gets Travis d'Arnaud and Franciso Lindor (prospect)

In the event that I have no pending pick available as of 10pm ET on March 4, then Species also has the right to renounce on my behalf as many of my prospects as are necessary to free up a prospect pick.

179

GO
ID: 11131520
Tue, Feb 18, 2014, 20:52

I have currently have 0 prospects so I would also trade some of my previously mentioned players for prospects.
Big thanks to Shelby, Gerrit and Profar for all getting called up and all just passing their thresholds at one time while not doing enough to win me a title.

180

slizz
ID: 3013119
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 13:42

PROPOSAL EFFECTIVE FOR 2015:

The Oscar Taveras Rule

To help ensure the quality of p-drafts, the Oscar Taveras rule is enacted, starting for the 2015 season, impacting the 2016 p-draft. When a player meets these rules:

-Player is kept in year 1 (supplemental)
-Player plays in zero games in year 1
-Player is kept again in year 2 (supplemental)

Then the manager who kept the player in year 2 forfeits a prospect pick in year 2. It doesn't matter who kept the player in year 1 or if the player was unrostered at any point during year 1.

Under these rules, for example, BMD would forfeit a prospect pick if he kept Oscar Taveras in 2014 (although this won't start until next year).

182

slizz
ID: 3013119
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 14:07

I would support a notion making it effective starting with the 2014 keepers (Taveras would not be impacted by this rule bc 2014 would count for everyone as year 1).

183

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 14:16

180: Interesting idea. Can you go into the rationale behind it?

Is it to place a greater emphasis on the P- Draft?
Is it to try to have all prospects have to go through the P-Draft first? Kind of like what we do with June draftees now?

Burning keeper spots on prospects, to me, is already a pricey "penalty". But I am open to hearing more.

184

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 15:25

Updated draft grid from Species

1	GreatOne	blue hen	Species	Species	slizz	youngroman	Species
2	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	Species
3	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd
9	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	bmd	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral
13	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	blue hen	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	Toral	allhair	allhair
17	darkside	darkside	Toral	Pete N.	Species	GreatOne	GoatLocker
18	blue hen	blue hen	R9	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Toral	Ref	slizz	Ref
20	Pete N.	WG	WG	WG	Pete N.	Judy	Nerfherders

	Round 8	Round 9	Round 10	Round 11	Round 12	Round 13	Round 14
1	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species
2	slizz	blue hen	slizz	slizz	Ref	Jaydog	WG
3	Pete N.	bmd	WG	WG	Pete N.	Pete N.	GreatOne
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	WG	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	darkside
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	blue hen	GoatLocker
9	Judy	Judy	WG	WG	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GreatOne	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	GreatOne	allhair	Ref
13	R9	R9	blue hen	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	slizz	Species
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	Species
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair
17	GreatOne	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne
18	blue hen	blue hen	slizz	Jaydog	blue hen	Pete N.	youngroman
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref
20	slizz	Judy	WG	WG	WG	WG	WG

185

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 17:47

Can't wait for Taveras to be a top 5 guy. Obviously not in favor of the rule. Like Species says. Keeping a prospect is already hefty enough.

186

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 23:11

Trade announcement:

Guru trades:
2014 1st round supplemental pick,
2015 4th round supplemental pick,
2015 7th round supplemental pick,
2015 3rd round prospect pick,
plus two players to be dropped

Blue Hen trades:
Anthony Rizzo, 1B
Patrick Corbin, SP
2014 13th round supplemental pick (from BMD),
2015 13th round supplemental pick,
2015 14th round supplemental pick

187

BH
ID: 1207919
Wed, Feb 19, 2014, 23:18

Confirmed. Pleasure doing business with you, Guru.

188

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 00:03

Guru going young --- 4 young guys to build on in a few days. Dig it.

189

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 09:56

Some analysis:

Species: nice move on Lindor. He's blocked on this team, but has a lot of value. Species got what he wanted - another prospect pick in a deep draft.

Guru: well, he's looking to go younger. Like Species said, he got four building blocks in a couple of days. Only complaint is that a prospect-rich team dropped two p-picks (one traded, and one to be used on Lindor). If Springer doesn't hit limits this year, it's a waste.

BH: obviously, smart moves all around. The market was rich for Rizzo, and I got pretty much what I was looking for. Several of you doubt Rizzo's potential, but he's going to be a real star. Wish I could have held him, but no room at the inn. Corbin's market was pretty small, and Guru was interested, so I used it to get some extra value. There's a good chance Corbin is awesome this year.

Still have some trading to do: Perkins and Grilli (or Rosenthal, I guess) can sate your closer needs. Other than that, it's Wilson Ramos or Tim Lincecum. Let's get those offers coming!

190

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 10:49

Going to need to trade or drop some of these players. I have 6 Keeper-worthy Pitchers alone. 3 Starters and 3 closers. IF someone needs depth, I can really help you in a blockbuster deal.

Hitters I am considering keeping as of now:
1. Swisher 1B, OF
2. L. Martin, OF
3. H. Ramirez, SS
4. Encarnacion, 1B
5. Holliday, OF
6. Puig, OF
7. Lind, 1B

Pitchers being considered:
1. Wainright, SP
2. Strasburg, SP
3. Janssen, CP
4. Masterson, SP
5. Uehara, CP
6. Cishek, CP

Prospects: Trevor Bauer,P, Jackie Bradley,Jr, OF, BOS

Analysis: As most of you know, I don't run my team like most. It won't typically have the best or youngest players. I have often traded/dumped better players for guys who better fit my team whether it be position or stats. With that being said, I am loaded at OF, 1B and closers. If I had to declare today, that's where my cuts would be from. I have three really nice closers. I also would consider moving an OF like Holliday or someone else if it made sense. I won't move EE at 1B but the other two can be had.

Prospects are ready to go and will be called up after Keepers are declared barring a trade. That gives me another OF too. Had a few inquiries for both of them last year. Nothing I can't work with but once Keepers are declared I likely won't want to trade as I will know what direction I need to go for the draft.

What I am looking for: Simply to fill in the holes. If I trade a hitter, I can keep another closer. Same thing if I do a 2 for 1. 2B has always been a problem for me and I have found myself over-drafting there, but I have always managed before so will probably will wait late for there again unless something jumps out at me. 3B has also been problematic for me. I keep swinging and missing there. This year EE and HR have lost 3B eligibility and that hurts, so time to see if I can get a hit.

191

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 10:53

Yeah, if Springer doesn't hit the prospect limits this year, I'll have renounced him a year early. On the other hand, I think 2014 is still going to be a "rebuilding" year, so wasting one roster spot on a prospect-eligible guy doesn't bother me too much.

I could be persuaded to swap some draft picks from 2014 to 2015. I'm now missing my 4th and 7th picks in 2015. I'd be willing to surrender a 2014 pick for a higher pick in 2015, if anyone is interested. Of course, that sort of trade could wait until after the draft begins.

Gary Sanchez (prospect) is also available. I'm going to have to renounce him anyway, but if someone wants him now to carry as a prospect, he can be had for a 2015 supplemental pick.

192

slizz
ID: 3013119
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 18:49

RE: 183 - I'll definitely craft a response when I am off next.

RE: 185 - I agree Oscar is gonna be awesome. He just happened to be the one who fit the example.

RE: 186 - nice trade. I had an offer to bh for Rizzo but it wasn't as strong. BH improves this season in his quest for a championship while Guru is going to field a solid team based on keepers.

193

Species
ID: 57862918
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 20:08

Keepers are due in 12 days....if you can believe that! I am a tiny bit concerned about this early deadline sneaking up on teams.....there are more than a handful of teams showing very little activity in this thread. That might not mean that they are not working on their teams in the shadows......but I just don't want anyone caught off guard.

I have gone ahead and opened up the Keeper Thread . As usual, you may delete and re-post keepers all the way up to the deadline.

I have asked Guru to run the Supplemental Draft Lottery on March 1st. Nothing special with that date.....just picked it out of thin air.

Prospect Keepers are due by Wednesday March 5th at 9:00am ET. Normally we just designate keepers in this thread, but I have chosen to set up a separate Prospect Keeper Thread in the Standings Forum for posterity. As always, you may adjust your choices all the way up to the deadline by deleting your previous post and providing updated Keepers.

In that thread you may also post your "Call up and renounce" prospects. Technically this does not happen until after our 9 keepers are declared on March 4th. But after keepers are run, all called up prospects will then be placed on your active rosters.

Good luck with all of your preparations and trades.

194

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Feb 20, 2014, 21:58

I'm here and watching.
Trying to formulate where to head.
Some of it is obvious and some is not so.
And of course my plan gets stepped on by Baltimore and the Ubaldo signing.
Need to relook the move I was sure I was making.

195

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 14:37

My main argument is that I want the p-draft to mean something and I don't want people to be rebuilding forever...

If we have teams keeping a player/multiple players who have zero shot of competing in the current season, it's unintentionally tanking. Put whatever lipstick you want on it, but it's taking a spot that will add at least 5-10 points to your overall total. By keeping those type of players, it creates better odds for a p-draft pick in the following season. Plus, you already hold one prospect as a keeper.

Darkside, in post 30, has eluded to supporting something to make owners field their most competitive squad...

BMD, in multiple posts you stated to the effect something needed to be done to prevent tanking/make people field competitive teams. If one holds onto what amounts to a dead spot for two seasons, why should that team be rewarded with a primo p-draft pick as well?

Let me be clear, I'm ok with teams keeping players who will be called up after the super 2 deadline...that's shrewd management. The former is what I take issue with.

The Taveras Rule would prevent the prospects from A and, in some cases, AA from getting kept and place them in the pool for all to have a fair shake at via the p-draft.

196

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 14:54

I totally disagree with Slizz. We ought to be encouraging teams to draft long-term prospects -- i.e., to be smart.

Maybe we ought to give them an extra draft=pick.

197

BH
ID: 1207919
Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 16:12

I actually agree with Slizz. It's also smart to not field a complete lineup, but we outlaw that. I think it might be worthwhile to inhibit "very" long term rebuilding, just like why we are pushing not to allow pick trading more than a couple years out.

198

Nerfherders
ID: 1511182416
Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 17:53

If you want to prevent long term rebuilding then make it a redraft league. This honestly makes no sense to me. I drafted, for example, Byron Buxton last year. I expect to be able to keep him until he's called up to the ML.

I am not sure why there are so many managers in this league (maybe just a vocal few) who are so paranoid about other managers tanking. What I see in this league since Ive been in it is alot of good competition at the top. Meanwhile, somebody has to be in last place. The lottery also prevents those last place teams from getting the top pick every time.

199

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 20:26

I'm just trying to offer solutions...and I'm a team that has been a bottom feeder as of late...lol. Those who deal and speak with me know I want what's best for the league.

Maybe I should have been more clear, Nerf.

I am talking about keeping a player who is in say, single A-AA baseball and won't play at all in 2014, as part of the 9 keepers. Not players who are prospects like Buxton.

200

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Sat, Feb 22, 2014, 22:35

Who's going to be kept this year that has little chance of playing in 2014? If that was your intent then Taveras rule was not a good name for it. He was 100% being called up if he didn't have severe ankle problems last year.

201

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sun, Feb 23, 2014, 11:54

But he didn't...and the ankle issues were towards the end of the season.

With the p-draft coming immediately after keepers are declared, I am attempting to come up with a creative way to make the league better. Moreover, it solves a potential dillema before it happens.

Before, teams could pickup prospects as FA's before the p-draft thus preventing them from getting p-drafted. Moving the p-draft immediately after keeper declarations closed that loophole. What's wrong stopping another to ensure the quality of p-drafts?

The ruling will have zero impact on those who will play in the upcoming season. It's only going to impact those who should be prospects via the p-draft in the first place.

202

Species
ID: 57862918
Sun, Feb 23, 2014, 12:10

Tavares was an example out of jealousy. :) The point of the rule is a decent one and the concept simple. If you keep a player who has never been called up to the major leagues for two consecutive seasons, do we want to implement some additional cost for that?

Tavares was a bad example due to injury. I agree with bmd....if he wasn't hurt, he would have at least sniffed a September callup.

I am considering keeping Robert Stephenson, who is unlikely to see the majors this year. So yes.....it can be done.

I personally am of the opinion that an additional cost is unnecessary. You are already burning a valuable spot in doing so.

203

PeteN.
ID: 530592918
Sun, Feb 23, 2014, 13:26

I understand where Slizz is coming from, but agree with Species in #202.

204

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sun, Feb 23, 2014, 18:02

Haha I think we are all jealous of him :) Who wouldn't want the best pure hitting prospect in all of the minors on their squad? He's Vlad Guerrero reincarnated!

That said, he was picked up prior to the old p-draft so he wasn't prospect eligible and now was (will be) kept for two consecutive seasons...so the example fit regardless of hypotheticals.

Species, that pretty much sums it up. At the end of the day, it's about preserving p-draft.

205

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Sun, Feb 23, 2014, 21:24

slizz, the draft is preserved in that all players that have been drafted by a mlb team have to go through our prospect draft 1 time before they can be kept by a team. I'd be with you 100% if draftees from last years mlb draft could be kept.

206

Nerfherders
ID: 161121811
Mon, Feb 24, 2014, 12:52

I have some bubble players that can be had for draft picks:

Josh Willingham
Ben Revere
Ike Davis
John Axford
Brandon Beachy
Travis Wood

207

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Mon, Feb 24, 2014, 22:52

I have a few bubble players also available for a modest pick upgrade or whatever.

Martin Prado, Ari 3B, 2B, OF
Salvador Perez, KC C
Clay Buchholz, Bos SP

208

R9
ID: 2418251
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 02:10

bmd's 205 is what makes me want to expand the p-draft to more per team (I'm thinking 10). I know that's not really popular at all and isn't going to happen, but more prospects who are being kept by teams amongst their 9 keepers would already be drafted if we had larger prospect rosters.

Every G20 team had a shot to draft Taveras as a prospect. They passed because he wasn't really amongst the top 60 when his 1st p-draft came around. But I'm pretty sure he was in the top 200...

209

slizz
ID: 3013119
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 04:27

R9 - No team had a chance to draft Taveras. He was picked up as a FA prior to the old p-draft system thus preventing him from ever being prospected.

210

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 11:17

slizz, he could've 100% been drafted as a prospect in the 2011 prospect draft.

IIRC, I didn't even have Taveras when the 2012 prospect draft rolled around when he definitely would've been drafted. bh picked him up a few weeks prior to the draft and then dropped him a few weeks after the draft.

211

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 14:59

I don't like that Species would keep Stephenson or Cecchini over guys who have actually played. Seems to encourage long term tanking, which I also don't like.

If you like it, fine. But that's why I would support this one.

212

Ref
ID: 55156513
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 15:58

When we started this game we wanted to make sure no one would pick up players not on the 40 man roster. CBS was really good initially about not putting people in the database who wasn't on the 40 man roster. Then we started seeing people in the database but unable to be picked up--which was also fine. ESPN had been pretty good about it until lately. Now we have players on people's teams who were not on the 40 man roster when they were acquired--which is really against our rules.

The way I see it, if a MLB team wants to kill a spot on their 40 man roster for a player, then it should be fair game for one of our teams to pick him up too. However, if he's not on the 40 man roster, he should not be allowed to be picked up or kept (Obviously injuries, suspensions, etc. notwithstanding). Obviously this doesn't apply to prospects but you can't bring those non-rostered players to your team either. It wouldn't be an issue if ESPN simply followed their own guidelines.

213

Species
ID: 57862918
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 16:21

212: Now we have players on people's teams who were not on the 40 man roster when they were acquired--which is really against our rules.

Technically, no.

Under the "spirit of the rule"? Possibly.

The problem is we can't have a free-for-all in the waiver wire trying to see when teams add players to the 40-man roster. As Ref said, in the CBS days, they normally did not put a player into the database until they made the 40-man roster. We really cannot do too many things with any manual aspect (our prospects being the only one).....it has to be managed by the website. Twarpy famously snagged Justin Verlander the day he was added to the 40-man roster just days before one of our Prospect Drafts.

Why ESPN chooses to include the players it does (and doesn't) is beyond me. They have a nondescript explanation somewhere that they have added players to the database that their staff feel could be called up during the season......but typically do not add minor league players in-season unless they are called up.

214

Species
ID: 57862918
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 16:23

211: I don't like that Species would keep Stephenson or Cecchini over guys who have actually played. Seems to encourage long term tanking, which I also don't like.

Two years is "long term tanking"??? That's pretty damned fast to me.

Just wait until the shoe is on the other foot, homes.

215

beastiemiked
ID: 121552519
Tue, Feb 25, 2014, 20:55

It's not like either of those guys are sure fire superstars. If he wants to "waste" a spot on one of them while guys like sonny gray(hint hint) could be kept instead then it's his choice.

216

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 10:22

It started in 2012. Then 2013, and 2014, and if you keep Cecchini or Stephenson, it's not like they're going to be key pieces as rookies in 2015. So that's four years, at least. Not just directing this at you; I just don't like the idea of keeping players who won't play for a few years, although it's a little more tenable in the Taveras case.

Also, I'm going to defend ESPN on the player lists. Since the Strasburg fiasco, they've been pretty great about it. They don't update players during the year, unless the player appears in a game. So we won't ever have that situation again. You can argue with the pre-season lists, but Polanco went undrafted in our prospect draft, so it's not like he was on all the radars. And Burch Smith was a callup out of nowhere, who then stunk. I think they do a decent job of that. If you look at the player list in the next few days, and see someone missing, let me know and I'll see if I can pass it on to some old friends.

217

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 13:37

** Trade Announcements **

Great One receives:
Species 7.01

Species receives:
Carlos Beltran
Great One's 14.17

--------------------------

Jaydog's receives:
Species 4.01

Species receives:
Fernando Rodney
Jaydog's 13.02 (via slizz)

218

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 13:54

I have my 3.01 and 5.17 available for trade.

Seeking picks in 2016 that are higher in return.

Six days until keepers. PLEASE be sure to mark your keepers on ESPN! !

219

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 14:13

Now that we've set the bar for closers (Rodney for a 4th), I'd like to offer up Jason Grilli and Glen Perkins for trade. Given the current market, I'd expect at least a 2nd or 3rd for each one. If you're looking for closers, please let me know.

220

GO
ID: 01020815
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 14:15

I've got Nathan or Romo for sale too.

221

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 14:21

Also, we never voted on this previously, but I want to talk through it and potentially vote quickly.

Resolution: only 2 drafts are in play at any given time, for pick trading purposes. For example, at the conclusion of the 2015 draft, the 2017 draft goes on the table. This includes p-drafts of the same years.

This would start at the conclusion of the 2014 supp draft, taking all drafts after 2016 off the table until the future.

222

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 14:24

221: Ok. Let's consider that an official vote proposal.

I vote no.

223

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 14:25

What are the vote parameters? Simple majority?

224

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 14:26

	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
1	GreatOne	blue hen	Species	Jaydog	slizz	youngroman	GreatOne
2	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	Species
3	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.
4	blue hen	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd
9	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	bmd	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral
13	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	blue hen	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	Toral	allhair	allhair
17	darkside	darkside	Toral	Pete N.	Species	GreatOne	GoatLocker
18	blue hen	blue hen	R9	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Toral	Ref	slizz	Ref
20	Pete N.	WG	WG	WG	Pete N.	Judy	Nerfherders

	Round 8	Round 9	Round 10	Round 11	Round 12	Round 13	Round 14
1	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species
2	slizz	blue hen	slizz	slizz	Ref	Species	WG
3	Pete N.	bmd	WG	WG	Pete N.	Pete N.	GreatOne
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	WG	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	darkside
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	Guru	GoatLocker
9	Judy	Judy	WG	WG	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GreatOne	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	GreatOne	allhair	Ref
13	R9	R9	blue hen	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	slizz	Species
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	Species
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair
17	GreatOne	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	Species
18	blue hen	blue hen	slizz	Jaydog	blue hen	Pete N.	youngroman
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref
20	slizz	Judy	WG	WG	WG	WG	WG

225

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 15:09

Papelbon is available too :)

226

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 15:15

Would have helped if the proposal had been written in English.

Won'e vote for anything in gibberish.

Vote: No

227

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 15:25

Vote: Yes

228

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 16:14

223: Yes.....simple majority of franchises. 11 votes to pass.

229

GO
ID: 01020815
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 16:46

Vote: No (I really just want 1 more year on it to switch to Yes)

230

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 17:08

Am I correct that there is currently no limitation on future draft picks available to trade? I skimmed the rules and didn't see anything, but might have missed.

I'd like some feedback here. For those voting yes, why do you want the limit?

For those voting no, why not limit it to 2 years?

231

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 17:22

230: No limitation.

I would also vote yes if the limit was two calendar years. For example, during the calendar year 2014, the farthest out you can trade a pick is the 2016 draft. This would render the date of the 2014 draft immaterial for calculation.

Guru - I believe the sentiment is centered on too much "tanking" or overly long rebuilds.

232

youngroman
ID: 41135272
Wed, Feb 26, 2014, 17:35

speaking about Closers: Neftali Feliz is available too.

about the proposal: I am in favor of not allowing future draft picks to be traded. for me it doesn't matter if it is 2 or 3 years but something needs to be written down before someone tries to exploit this by trading away early picks in 2016 to 2018 for early picks in 2014.

233

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 09:59

I am not sure what I am voting for. But I proposed last year that we can not be allowed to trade draft picks more than two seasons out.

There have been several proposals out from last year to this spring. Can't we bunch them altogether and vote on them at once? We can't pick and choose what gets considered for a vote if a proposal gets support from other members.

234

slizz
ID: 3013119
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 10:27

Vote - yes

Wouldn't want a new owner to inherit a mess that he / she didn't great.

235

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 10:38

230: I have consistently expressed that someone must champion a cause and organize the conversation for any rule changes. I have enough to do without babysitting every idea that gets thrown out there. bh called for a vote on something that I felt had gone through enough discussion to warrant a vote......so I did my duty and called the vote, even sending a league wide email to ask for votes.

Then we have the fact that well over half the league haven't even checked in when a league vote has been called. Quite unacceptable by my standards......but don't get me started on that topic.

236

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 10:50

my vote: yes

I don't know if 2 years is the right limit, but I think some limit is a good idea. I doubt if there are many managers who would entertain a trade for the third year out anyway - so I doubt that it could be significantly abused. But a two-draft limit seems sufficiently flexible.

237

darkside
ID: 1425647
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 10:58

I vote yes

238

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:19

Good Lord. In 235 I made reference to 230. I meant to note that I was responding to Ref in post 233. Probably auto correct.

Vote is 4 yes, 3 no at this point.

239

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:20

So based on what Guru said in 236, that is the same thing that I asked for last year and I vote yes as well.

240

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 11:22

I have three top closers. I have had some interest and I put feelers out to teams who were in need and got a couple more who were interested. At this point, I am not sure how many I can keep (or which ones) but will likely have to trade at least one. Maybe two.

241

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 12:58

yeah on 2 years

242

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 13:09

Voting on 2-draft limit (as posted in 221):

Yes: mjd, bmd, Guru, darkside, blue hen, Ref, slizz
No: Toral, Great One, Species

That's 7-3 right now. It sounds like youngroman was voting yes, but didn't explicitly say it, which would make it 8-3.

243

youngroman
ID: 41135272
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 13:13

bh, I meant yes, so we are at 8-3

244

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 13:24

Whether it's real-life or fantasy, anything longer than a two-year rebuilding plan is too long. You're going to lose your fan base and/or interest.

I vote yes for 2 years.

245

WG
ID: 552431321
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 15:08

Yes

246

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 15:35

I had 4 teams wanting at least one of my closers. I just found out there is now a 5th team. All of them want to wait until it gets close to the deadline. I am trying to figure out a way to keep two of them, but I can't keep all three. All are top notch and should go near the top of the draft. Don't get left out in the cold!

247

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 15:56

Yes: mjd, bmd, Guru, darkside, blue hen, Ref, slizz, youngroman, Tosh, WG
No: Toral, Great One, Species

Currently 10-3. Waiting on:
Peter N, Jaydog, Goatlocker, nerfherders, allhair, judy, R9

248

Nerfherders
ID: 161121811
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 16:27

No for me

249

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 17:50

Yes for judy...

250

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 18:32

Motion passes.

The rule becomes effective at the end of the Supplemental Draft. At that point, no trades may be consummated that include draft pick compensation more than two drafts into the future.

251

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 19:59

Yes for me.

252

Bh
ID: 286392118
Thu, Feb 27, 2014, 20:10

Anyone interested in my 2048 first rounder for your 2014 first rounder?

253

R9
ID: 1155287
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 08:55

I would probably vote yes for that as well, as I don't see it coming up very often.

All the discussion on tanking every year does get a bit tiresome. We already have a mechanic in place that gives every team a shot to draft any player on their prospect roster. Once a player has gone through a prospect draft undrafted, if a manager wants to keep that player amongst their 9 keepers instead of on their prospect roster, that's up to them. Its just an asset management decision; lets leave those decisions up to each manager.

Everyone had their shot at Taveras in 2011. To say he circumnavigated our prospect system is just wrong. Our prospect system isn't big enough to draft the vast majority of young players who are worthy of such consideration, so many fall through the cracks. (With only 60 total prospects in G20, there are going to be many late bloomers/top 61-200 guys that don't get p-drafted)
Guys like Taveras, Goldy, etc. are going to come up again and again.

To tell a rebuilding team that he/she has to keep a middling player (or trade for someone else's middling player) instead of keeping a promising young player who has slipped through our huge p-draft cracks is absurd. In other words, they get 3 dart throws on the prospect wheel, and then they have to keep a bunch of older guys? Why would we want to tax our weaker teams and stopping them from getting better sooner?

Keeper leagues everywhere have a big issue with the top teams always getting stronger and the weak teams never being able to catch up. Its very important to allow a team with no strong positioning to be able, with proper management, to turn that corner reasonably quickly. We're a 20 team league. A lot of talent is already taken each year. To hold them to just 3 younger players (while their much stronger league mates also get the same 3) is to doom them to perpetual mediocrity.

Society has a way of correcting such imbalances by taxing the rich and giving to the poor. So, how about I propose a rule that taxes the top 3 teams each year? Lets say they only get 8 keepers. And if you finish in the top 3 in B2B years, you only get 7. That should help balance the field. And since we're interested in taxing/punishing the bottom teams, this evens it out by taxing/punishing the top teams too.

Or... we could just agree to let our free market approach continue, since its made a pretty great league. :D We have many examples of fast rebuilds that have taken some pretty awful teams back into contention.

-------------------------------------------------

.... Aaaaand I'll say it again, the only real way to stop guys from falling through the p-draft cracks is to make sure they get drafted in the first place... by expanding the p-draft to a larger size. Taveras was a top 200 prospect going into 2011. By the time of our p-draft in 2011, he was definitely in my top 100. He just wasn't top 60 yet.

I'm not even sure that's what I'd want. I'd need to be much more aware of minor leaguers then I am now in such an expanded league. But, if we're not going to expand the size of our minors rosters, we really can't afford to stop the rebuilders from adding them to their 23-man roster/9 keepers.

I shouldn't even say rebuilders, as anyone could've added Taveras or a young player like him. Contenders can take chances on promising young guys too...

254

Ref
ID: 55156513
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 09:12

253: You started out great and then kinda lost me, but I get it.

We set these leagues up so not only would they be tough, but so that everyone would be able to improve their team--either this year or in the future. The intent was that teams wouldn't simply give up. I think we have done a great job with that. It starts with great managers. The things that has really surprised me is how soon some give up so early on the current season to start playing for the future and on some years where the top teams don't give up a ton to try and make a run that year. (That's when the top teams get "taxed" to go for it. The weaker teams should be able to load up at that point). I am also a bit surprised on how some teams would rather keep a non-keeper talent who won't be drafted in the top round or two instead of buying a player who is going to go in the first several picks. In a brand new league if I were to offer you a 6th and 17th for a 12th and a 13th pick, wouldn't you do that every time? To each their own. We all don't think alike nor value players the same and that's what makes it fun.

Most seasons anyone can improve their team significantly that same year. I gamble quite a bit and am not afraid to overpay when needed. I get burnt with those decisions at times, but as that old adage goes, no guts no glory.

255

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 10:02

Well said, R9, and I think you've softened my stance on keeping non-major-leaguers, even if I still don't like it. Honestly, I'm less worried about the bottom teams than the middle teams - to wit, the bottom three teams in 2013 are three of the healthiest teams in the league.

As a minors fiend, I'd welcome extra prospects, but that changes the league dynamic. I'm more concerned about keeping up the level of competition, especially the 4-5 managers who never compete (due to lack of effort rather than lack of talent). Much more concerned about that than 2019 draft picks or keeping toddlers. But we've been down that road, and I don't have desire to remove managers who want to be in the league.

256

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 11:40

Great discussion, all. This is EVERYONE'S league. 20 teams. We can make it what we want it to be. Ideas for league rules/changes are welcomed.

I have asked Guru to run the Supplemental Draft Lottery today. He will do so in the afternoon. We will keep the original team names with their standings, irrespective of whether or not they own their pick ( like me) for ease of tracking.

Be sure to mark your keepers on ESPN.....they are due Tuesday, Noon ET.

257

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 11:44

Can't keep all three. If yoh have any interest, please inquire within.

BJ Upton
Mark Teixeira
Robert Stephenson

I also have picks in 2014 available in exchange for 2016 picks. 3.01.....5.17.....7.02.

(New rule change goes into effect AFTER the Supplemental Draft)

258

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:11

When is the prospect lottery, since that draft starts first.

259

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 12:23

258: Please refer to post 167 for a detailed rundown of our deadlines and timeframes.

But your answer is: after Prospect Keepers are final on March 5th at 9:00am ET.

260

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 14:35

Getting ready to run the supplemental draft lottery. The spreadsheet with all of the odds and preset lotto combinations is here:
http://rotoguru1.com/base/G20/G20-Feb14-14x4_balls.xls

I'll generate 10 sets of random numbers 1-14 (all ten sets in one shot this time) and send audit copies to Species, Ref, and Tosh. I'll then work down the sets of random numbers to develop three lottery picks (duplicate choices get tossed, so more than 3 sets of numbers are often required.) I'll post the results here momentarily.

261

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 14:39

Argh. Looks like the lotto process failed. Must be a network issue. Will try to troubleshoot.

262

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 15:03

I use random.org to generate the random numbers, and it is currently unreachable. (Worked fine a couple of hours ago). I assume the issue will clear up before too long.

So we are officially in hurry up and wait mode.

263

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 15:16

Here is another generator that might meet our needs

264

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 15:31

I can't access that site from here either. Perhaps related to the same network outage.

I'm sure things will resolve themselves before too long.

265

WG
ID: 552431321
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 15:35

TRADE

WG gets
Adam Jones
12.11
14.11

Tosh gets
Starling Marte
Mark Trumbo
10.03
10.09

All picks for this upcoming draft

266

Tosh
ID: 41727116
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:06

Agreed

267

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:08

[260] Random.org is back up. Lottery to proceed momentarily

268

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:12

Draw 1 2-3-6-12 Guru
Draw 2 5-6-9-13 Species
Draw 3 4-7-8-10 Pete N

Figures that the year when I win it is the year that I traded away my first round pick. Congrats, BH.

269

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:15

Looks like GO owns Species' pick.

270

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:17

So if I interpret the chart in [224] correctly, the first four picks will be:

1 blue hen (from Guru)
2 GO (from Species)
3 Pete N
4 slizz

271

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:27

Thanks Guru. Will send an updated draft grid Monday morning.

272

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 17:29

Thanks Guru. My first lottery win. Will be harder to win the p-draft lottery from 1.14.

Pick 1.01 is officially on the block. Let's get those offers coming.

273

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 18:15

Thanks Guru. Will send an updated draft grid Monday morning.

274

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 21:51

Can you shoot us an email to visit the thread when the prospect draft order is set?

275

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 22:07

Can someone tell me how to mark keepers on ESPN site?

THANKS.

276

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Feb 28, 2014, 22:10

Found it -- not sure how, but it did...

277

Species
ID: 6235110
Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:35

275: You can find it both on the league page where there's a huge gold box:
------------
Your league's keeper deadline is approaching. You must select your keepers by 12PM ET on Tuesday, March 4. Select Keepers

The Offline Draft App helps you run your league's draft in person. Learn More.
-------------

And on your team page where it says Select Keepers.

278

Species
ID: 6235110
Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 11:46

They aren't due yet, but the following teams have yet to designate their Prospect Keepers:

allhair
darkside
GoatLocker
Guru
Jaydog
Ref
R9
Toral
WG

Deadline is Wednesday, 9:00am ET.

279

Bh
ID: 5522112
Sat, Mar 01, 2014, 13:02

I'm seriously looking to move down from 1.01 and move up elsewhere. Let me know if you have thoughts.

280

jaydog
ID: 33758520
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 09:11

Not announcing keepers just yet, but if anyone wants to make a last minute trade.

My most likely keepers will be:
Yadier Molina
Joey Votto
Brandon Phillips
Ian Desmond
Jay Bruce
Josh Hamilton
Matt Harvey
Matt Cain
Johnny Cueto

That leaves me a few very interesting players that someone may want to acquire. Will take the highest offer:

Aramis Ramirez, 3B, MIL
All reports out of camp are that he's perfectly healthy. Has always put up elite numbers for a 3B when healthy.

Jim Henderson, Closer, MIL
Solid lock on the closers job in MIL and put up elite numbers last year.

Nate Eovaldi and Matt Dominguez. Both are good speculative plays for teams that are rebuilding. Dominguez hit 21 HR's last year, no reason he can't build on those numbers as he's still young. Eovaldi was a hot name early in the season, but injuries derailed his year, although he still put together a very solid 2nd half. This could be his breakout season.

Any last minute interest, let me know.

Jason

281

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 12:25

The following managers have yet to report their prospect keepers:

allhair
Guru
dark side
Ref

Barring darkside filling up his prospect list (48 hours to go), all 14 teams that would normally be eligible for the P-Draft lottery will be eligible. Those teams are, in order of highest number of ping pong balls:
Species
slizz
Pete N.
Guru
Nerfherders
darkside
mjd
bmd
Judy
GoatLocker
Tosh
Total
R9
Jaydog

After prospect keepers are final Wednesday morning, Guru will run the lottery. The team names of the original pick owner will be used in this lottery to avoid confusion as to which slot won each lottery spot. I.E. - if Guru's pick wins a spot, we want to know that even though I own it.

Any questions?

Regular keepers are due at Noon tomorrow!!!

282

Ref
ID: 55156513
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 13:03

Why do we wait to run lottery? That could affect someone's decision, right? One of the people who had talked to me about trade wanted to wait on trade talks until after supplemental lottery ran. May have went another way now.

Anyway, I plan on calling up my two prospects after keeper deadline and renouncing.

It appears that I won't be trading any of my should-be keepers. I've already been told by a early drafter that he will be selecting one of the guys I throw back. Not really in my interest to give away a top player for my "firm" offers--though I have had a couple who wanted to wait until the deadline to offer closer to value, but I probably won't be around.

283

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 13:58

282: Ref - I believe that in order to be involved in the lottery, you have to have bought a ticket in advance. You can't claim your lottery prize after the fact.

I compare our P-Draft lottery to this. Before you can benefit from the lottery, I feel a manager must have already decided to have a pick in the first place (ie - bought a ticket) to make them eligible to benefit.

284

Ref
ID: 55156513
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 14:42

It can affect if you want the ticket or not. AND, even if you don't have a "ticket" it's your pick that you forfeit. The difference from a 10th and a 1st could be substantial. Also could be a major trade chip.

285

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 14:49

Of course it has a dramatic effect on the pick's value.

Next time you can walk into your State's lottery office and claim a lottery prize when your numbers hit and you didn't pay for that ticket in advance, let me know.

286

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 15:03

I support what Ref is looking for - lottery before keepers. However, we've done it this way every year and it should require a vote to change.

287

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 15:14

286: I'm not sure that is true. This is the way *I* have done it the past two years as the main Commissioner. My guess is that Ref's recollection further back is that he did the lottery before keepers were declared.

In the absence of a rule, when we changed the draft to March I put this into practice. I think it is the most fair way to do it. Lottery winners still have the chance to "cash in" their fortune by flipping a high pick for something if they want. Admittedly that is a short window this year, but that's what we have to work with.

I am very much against running the lottery before keepers. Doing so last year would have benefited me greatly. I actually paid a premium on Bogaerts.....slizz won the lottery and got Fernandez......and smoked me on that deal!

Feel free to have a rule change brought up and discussed.

288

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 15:46

Last chance to get a super talented young SP in Sonny Gray. Ranked in the top 100 in almost every dynasty keeper rankings.

289

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 17:27

Some miscellaneous draft mechanics:

- Keepers will run at Noon ET tomorrow.
- Whenever I get access after keepers run, I will manually place any called up prospects onto their owner's rosters. This obviously removes them from being shown as available on ESPN.
- For Draftime, I have input all of the prospects who are on the prospect list or called up into their "remove players" pool. This makes them invisible within Draftime. They won't show up on your Draftime roster, so don't freak out.
- I have already input all of the trades to date in Draftime. It is really easy to make a mistake.....so please check this to the draft grid once the draft is turned on.
- The Prospect Draft will be held in the Standings Forum starting Wednesday, 2:00pm ET.

Let me know if you have any questions.

290

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 17:37

Species is the man.

291

WG
ID: 59552022
Mon, Mar 03, 2014, 18:59

Anyone want

Wilin Rosario
Jonathan Lucroy
Francisco Liriano
Rex Brothers

??

292

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 00:03

Waiting on Ref to post his Prospect Keepers in the official thread.

Waiting on Ref, R9 and Jaydog to make their regular keepers official.

293

allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50902421
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 00:08

League,

After a busier than ever winter/spring, I've decided to add a co-manager to the team. To that end, let me go ahead and introduce my brother-in-law, Rich P.

Rich is an old school, lapsed Gurupie from way back when. When I first found rotoguru.com, he was already here... and that was close to 16 years ago.

Anyway, I have faith in Rich's baseball acumen and, with a little luck, hope that we'll build on last year's long-awaited, wildly overdue breakout season.

If nothing else, having a second head on this monster should help us do a better job fielding those trade requests that I've been neglecting. :) He's already added and available on the ESPN site and ready to roll.

Here's to a helluva 12th season, G20!

294

R9
ID: 1329323
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 00:09

I think either way of running the prospect lottery is fine. If we're going to do the lottery before the draft, it should be done right after the season ends. If the idea is to let managers know the value of their picks, they should have this information the entire off-season.

That said, I much prefer the way it is now, as I don't think being able to get full value from what is essentially a lucky thing is the goal. The lottery is supposed to be a full-on-tanking deterrent. I think it works. But those who get lucky and get extra value (a higher pick) shouldn't get yet more extra value (using it in trades, altering keepers, etc.)

We should all be heading into the lotteries assuming we're picking around where the standings say we should. Any moving up the order due to the lottery should really be an unexpected bonus and surprise. Just imo though.

295

Ref
ID: 55156513
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 08:57

292: You're not waiting on me as the deadline isn't here yet.

After all of these seasons, you'd think I'd have learned and not be so surprised, but yet again, every year I'm amazed at some of the people kept with major bargain-priced upgrades available.

294: Why not see where we are? It never really affects me, personally. The first 10 years or so of these leagues we only waited until we had all the teams covered, but I don't think it is a big deal. Some years we were really early and some years we were really late.

Prospects: I have never been a fan of the whole system. I brought it up so I like the idea in theory but it is a major pain. If we had a prospect taxi squad, it would help us tremendously.

296

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 10:52

My apologies Ref. I was merely trying to keep tabs on who was left for my own purposes. When I have time to focus and organize on this (particularly not on my phone!) I need to do so.

Everyone has posted their keepers - both prospects (a day early - yahooo!) and standard keepers. Thank you. Hopefully everything is in ESPN. We'll see in about an hour.

297

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 10:57

Wasn't the deadline 9 AM? And Ref posted his keepers at 9:17? Pretty sure Species was right to note who was left as a reminder.

Either way, it's done now.

Let's get it on! As of now, I'm planning to keep my 1.01 slot. Would like to move up in the p-draft (from 1.14), lottery pending.

298

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 11:06

Keepers was Noon today.

Prospect keeper deadline is 9:00am ET tomorrow. Lottery will run as soon as Guru can do so after that.

299

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 11:31

I'll run the prospect draft on Wednesday morning after I've had my first cup of coffee.

At this point, it looks like all lottery teams have at least one pick, so all 14 teams will be represented in the lottery.

300

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 11:44

Noon. 9 AM PT, obviously, but Ref's correct here. I do want to commend Species for timely reminders, etc.

301

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 13:18

Okay. Keepers have run. Have to point and laugh at Nerfherders for being the only one not to mark their keepers on ESPN.

Called up and renounced prospects have been added to their respective teams.

The offline draft shows completed in ESPN so we may get all of the free agents available to draft in their database. Everyone in the ESPN database - besides prospects still on the prospect list - should be available to draft.

Those prospects still on the prospect list have been removed from availability in Draftime, so hopefully if you have a mini-orgasm thinking you can draft Taijuan Walker because you see him in ESPN.....you will find him unavailable to be drafted in Draftime. Draftime is actually pretty good about leaving prospects out of their database. Guys like Sano, Buxton and others who aren't supposed to sniff the opening day roster are not eligible in Draftime at the present moment.

We will turn on Draftime this Saturday (or sooner if we finish the P-Draft and we want to). By then, waivers would have run through ESPN, so all of the available draftees will be Free Agents. As you make your draft picks, PRETTY PLEASE go to ESPN and pick up your player from the FA pool. We all have phones that should be able to do this, so barring an ice fishing trip, being at a strip club or it's that Second Sunday of the month where you and your wife have sex, there's no excuses.

Well.....one excuse: while the True Detective finale is on this Sunday, I'm not doing crap!

Some points of interest regarding the drafts:

- Watch your time limits
- Use queues for the P-Draft
- I make mistakes.....everything on the Boards - keepers, trades, call ups - takes priority over something you see in ESPN or Draftime.
- In that vein, the ESPN database is intended as a GUIDE. Again, I could make a mistake, or another owner could neglect to pick up a player, or they pick up the wrong player with the same name. If you are excited because "Player A" is showing in ESPN but upon checking Draftime you see he's not there, the draft in Draftime holds priority over what is (or isn't) in ESPN.

Any questions?

302

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 13:19

** Trade Announcement **

Jaydog receives:

Chris Archer
Fernando Rodney
Carlos Beltran

Species receives:

Matt Harvey
Jaydog's 11.18
Jaydog's 12.14

303

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 13:27

The Prospect Draft Thread is up. I realize I am jumping the gun - keepers aren't final until tomorrow morning and there can conceivably still be trades or keeper changes. But everyone's keepers look pretty set and I have the time NOW to organize it.........so there you are.

304

Species
ID: 6235110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 13:42

If anyone sees any errors or players that I missed being unavailable for the Prospect Draft, please post!

305

Ref
ID: 55156513
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 15:07

Species, thanks for all you do. Nobody knows more than me at how much work this takes. No one is trying to be difficult and all suggestions are based on the sole intention of making this league even better. It sucks when you spend so much time on something and people aren't happy with a mistake or the way you do something.

Same thing goes to how people run teams. Just because I, or anyone else, would handle their keepers or picks differently than another team, doesn't necessarily mean it is wrong or it won't work out after all.

Happy drafting!

306

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 15:16

If anyone needs an extra keeper pick - I have 5. If you pick early in the 1st round, wouldn't it be sweet to get an extra prospect in exchange for moving down a few slots in the first?

307

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 17:24

305: No worries. I really try to emphasize that when I am giving an opinion, I do so as one team owner out of 20. Yes, occasionally I must make a call or determination as a Commissioner. ....but that is completely separate from being a team owner.

Pretty excited for this P-Draft! I cant wait until tomorrow!

I have my 3.01 and 5.17 for sale. Seeking 2016s in return.

308

GO
ID: 11131520
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 19:24

I'd probably move down from 1.02 for extra picks in the first few rounds.

309

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 19:40

Just a heads up. I'll be out 2:30 to 5:30 weds unless it rains. Will try to give my queue to someone via email. Just don't peek!

310

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 21:32

Species,
I see Yelich who I renounced and called up, but no Kevin Gausman.

311

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 22:37

GL
He's there.

312

Ref
ID: 55156513
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 23:23

re: 7 are we retooling prize pool?

313

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 23:30

I don't think there was ever any decision on that, one way or the other.

314

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 23:34

[310-311] I don't see Gausman either. I don't know what Judy's looking at - but Gausman isn't on the roster that I see.

315

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Mar 04, 2014, 23:50

310: Corrected

316

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 00:25

Looks good now, thanks

317

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:07

Will run the prospect lottery momentarily. Lookup spreadsheet is the same one used for the regular lottery (post 260)

318

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:13

Prospect lottery results:
Pick 1: 1-5-7-12 Judy
Pick 2: 1-5-6-10 mjd
Pick 3: 6-8-9-10 Species

These are listed by the owner of the original pick, and do not reflect any trades that may have occurred.

319

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:26

I might be interested in moving up in prospect draft. All depends on who is there when I get up I guess. Send me offers.

320

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:33

Anybody going to be around who could take a queue from me for the P-Draft?
I have no access once I leave for work.

Thanks, Cliff

321

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 09:55

I have no horse in the p-draft race, so I could take a queue

322

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:04

Can you guys post a new chart for the S draft? I think Species/Jaydog is the only trade since the last one.

323

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:05

Do we have a list somewhere of the draft order for the P-Draft?
Can't find it.

Thanks Guru, but just realizing I don't pick til the second round, so should be fine if I don't leave a queue.

324

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:07

Will send Guru the updated supplemental and prospect draft grids upon my arrival at work. Give me an hour or so.

325

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:33

I've been offered Swaps for the #1, so what is the final order please?

326

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:34

Oops just saw species post. Sorry. I'll check back later.

327

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 10:34

Prospect question: Where is the rule that says you can't draft a player in the prospect draft if he was just cut from your team? Was it removed when we switched it to preseason? That was in there so people couldn't have a player on their team and then cut him and draft him in pdraft if they had a high pick. It may have gotten deleted by mistake or I simply can't find it.

328

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:02

Ref: I took it out, as I felt it was rendered completely useless with our move to the March draft. The intent of the rule was to avoid the stashing/hiding of players. Is there some aspect of this manipulation that I didn't consider?

I don't see how anyone gains an advantage with the March timing.

329

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:06

Pressure decision coming up. Getting the yips!

Know that some won't like my decision no matter what!

330

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:09

What if a last place team picks up a player during the season. Cuts the player. Then has a top pick to draft him in the p-draft? That's why the rule was established. I agree that it wouldn't be a big deal if a guy gets dropped and he is picked-up at 2.06 or even 1.17. But when we were initially hashing out the rules, that came up by one of the owners and it was decided that would be in the original rules when we voted on it. An owner asked me about it and I looked and couldn't find it either. Again, it has no bearing on me.

331

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:47

I'm open to trading the 2nd pick in the p-draft.

332

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:55

330: I suppose that's possible. But I'm not going to draft Pederson or Cecchini :P

Innocent adjustment on my part when adjusting the P-Draft rules upon our change to March. I am ok with putting it back --- basically it would be adjusted to (roughly) "Any manager who had a Prospect Draft-eligible player on their roster at the previous season's end may not draft that player in the subsequent Prospect Draft."

I would say that we would need to put it back in place for next year.....and I doubt seriously that this would apply this year. Certainly not in the top 3.

333

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:57

I stand firmly behind Species in 328 - no restrictions should be in place with the March p draft.

334

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 11:59

Grids should hopefully be posted soon.....but I only sent them out 10 minutes ago.

335

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:01

Supplemental Draft 2014

	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
1	blue hen	blue hen	Species	Jaydog	slizz	youngroman	GreatOne
2	GreatOne	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	slizz	Species
3	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.
4	slizz	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd
9	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	bmd	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral
13	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	blue hen	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	Toral	allhair	allhair
17	darkside	darkside	Toral	Pete N.	Species	GreatOne	GoatLocker
18	blue hen	blue hen	R9	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Toral	Ref	slizz	Ref
20	Pete N.	WG	WG	WG	Pete N.	Judy	Nerfherders

	Round 8	Round 9	Round 10	Round 11	Round 12	Round 13	Round 14
1	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species
2	slizz	blue hen	slizz	slizz	Ref	Species	WG
3	Pete N.	bmd	Tosh	WG	Pete N.	Pete N.	GreatOne
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	WG	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	darkside
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	Guru	GoatLocker
9	Judy	Judy	Tosh	WG	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GreatOne	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	WG	Tosh	WG
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	GreatOne	allhair	Ref
13	R9	R9	blue hen	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Species	slizz	Species
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	Species
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair
17	GreatOne	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	Species
18	blue hen	blue hen	slizz	Species	blue hen	Pete N.	youngroman
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref	Ref
20	slizz	Judy	WG	WG	WG	WG	WG

336

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:02

Prospect draft grid is posted in the prospect draft thread.

337

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:20

Sweet. Thanks Guru!!

The 2014 Prospect Draft is open for business!! The clock starts at 2:00pm ET. Nobody is under pressure to make a pick until then......however we are all free to do so when ready! Good luck!!!!

338

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:23

More pressure. Just what I need!

339

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:26

332: Has nothing to do with you. Another manager asked me about it. This looks to be a really deep prospect draft this year.
333: The rule was removed by mistake without discussions or a vote. I highly doubt it has much effect on most teams, but it continues to keep a loop hole closed. But let's take Species example for discussion. What if he had taken fliers on a few guys with the hopes of perhaps keeping one of them. Then finds out he cannot (or doesn't have to) and owns the top pick in prospect draft? This is a different animal then the supplemental draft. I read Slizz's idea on the "Taveras rule," but this loophole could be much bigger than that. At least there is a cost to hold Taveras. Since players are supposedly on 40 man roster to be picked up, you are likely getting a top player who is MLB-ready as an extra Keeper who you can keep down until you need him. Plus you are going to be at top of Supplemental draft. I don't think it hurts us to leave it in. If the player is good enough to be kept, then keep him.

340

beastiemiked
ID: 53512921
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:30

Ref, where did we even discuss that rule, let alone vote on it?

The only rule that I recall discussing is that players from the current years mlb draft could NOT be kept by anyone.

341

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:34

re: prize pool retool

I like the idea by bmd, bh, GO, Toral et al.

Both the fact that if you are in the bottom 3 in consecutive years the highest you can pick is 4th (taken out of top 3 lottery--I assume we just roll again if that team comes up) and the at least $5 additional prize pool the following year if you are in the bottom 3. Not sure if $15, $10 and $5 is too much for last place or not, but if someone really is gearing up for a 3 year run or so--maybe that tax isn't too high?

342

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:36

re 340: bmd, that was an original rule when we brought the prospect draft in.

343

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:37

340: Ref is right. We had a rule back then that made it so any player who was cut from your team within one week of the prospect draft could not be drafted by that same team in the P-Draft.

I didn't change it by mistake.....I did so quite purposefully because I felt it immaterial given the move to the March draft. I simply felt that nobody would benefit enough from that strategy, our rules are already confusing as it is and wanted to simplify it.

344

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:42

I'm getting several offers, but need to see what the 1st pick will be.

Have an appt. Back in 1 hour to continue negotiations or pick.

345

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:44

Disagree on 339. The rule was removed because it was no longer relevant. Happy to vote on it, but I doubt it will get much traction.

Agree on part of 341 - I'd vote yes for removing bottom 3 in consecutive years from the lottery, but I don't think that one would pass either.

346

slizz
ID: 3013119
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:47

I thought the rules were clear reference prospects:

A draft-eligible prospect is defined as a hitter that has less than 150 AB or a pitcher with less than 55 IP or 20 GP. They do not need to be in the ESPN player database, but can not be still in high school/college, etc. They need to either be on a pro team, drafted by a team, or a current free agent/professional Japanese or Cuban player.

347

beastiemiked
ID: 53512921
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:49

Oh, yeah I remember that one. That was a different beast since it was geared towards our July draft.

348

GO
ID: 01020815
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:50

And I'm likely selling my prospect picks for draft picks in the first few rounds of the regular draft.

349

slizz
ID: 3013119
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:50

If there is/was such a rule preventing players fitting those parameters from getting selected via the p-draft, it needs to be striked...like now.

350

slizz
ID: 3013119
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 12:57

TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Slizz:
Prospect Draft 1.04
Supplemental Draft 1.04, 5.02

Judy:
Prospect Draft 1.01
Supplemental Draft 1.09, 12.09

Judy please confirm.

351

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:02

Yup.

352

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:07

*struck

I don't think there's any such rule in play for this draft.

353

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:13

In the other thread, Slizz picked. MJD is on the pre-clock.

354

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:17

344. Mjd is out til ~ 1:45/2:00

355

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 13:57

345: It is already a rule. Again, I am not trying to be difficult. Species simply removed it as he thought it couldn't happen any more since the draft was moved. I have explained how it could. Unless it is voted out, it should really still be in. Again, I hope it would never be abused, but without a rule in to close the loop-hole, it's hard to enforce.

I think the "tank" rule would pass as shown by all of the people who supported it. Looks like it never was refined enough and proposed. So I ask, do you want it bottom three two years in a row to not be eligible for top 3 picks and every year a "fine" of $5, $10 and $15 the following year if they finish 18-20? That's how I read it so I'll propose it--even though it wasn't my idea.

356

beastiemiked
ID: 4720513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:00

It was a rule under our old draft not this one. I'd have a HUGE issue if it was somehow implemented into this draft.

357

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:14

I don't think now is the time for voting on anything. If someone makes what you feel is an illegal pick, we might want to vote on that, but otherwise, let's wait until April.

358

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:20

Ref: Technically the old rule said you cannot "cut" a player a week in advance. Anyone who rostered a P-Draft eligible player didn't cut them.....they chose not to retain them. Splitting hairs, perhaps.

Everyone: I am sorry that I got rid of that rule without consulting the league. No dastardly intention whatsoever......I simply felt it was immaterial due to the changes we implemented.

I am going to make an official ruling: there will be no such restriction this year. If we want to add it for next year, let's vote on it.

Of course.....Ref or anyone can call for a vote to overrule this decision. I say let's give us all the benefit of the doubt that there was no malicious intent by me or other managers in this process.

359

beastiemiked
ID: 4720513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:25

So if a pitcher has more than 55 ip but less than 20 games he's ineligible to be drafted? The rules say he's eligible if he's pitched 55 ip or less OR has played less than 20 games.

360

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:29

BTW: My decision is also based upon the fact that the rules were updated prior to the 2013 P-Draft, so there has been a year that has passed since I rewrote that section of the rules.

Doesn't necessarily make it "right".....but where was the concern since last year? Or at least bring this up before rosters were final in September of last year.

361

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:35

Yeah, I am not upset at all. But being commish for so long with so many great managers who are really intelligent and sneaky, it was tough trying to close all the loop holes that some of us came up with. I didn't even come up with that rule. But I support what they wanted to do. In fact I think it was one of the guys who loved prospects--maybe R9 or Twarpy? Anyhow, avoiding controversy and being proactive worked well for us. They made it a week so they'd have time for that player to clear waivers and be able to pick him up before the draft.

362

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:36

Will decide shortly. Fielding some last minute offers.

363

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:38

bmd: I realize that is ambiguous. The intent was that BOTH of those measurements must be met -- both less than 55 IP and less than 20 GP. We always had an IP cap, but realized that relievers could slip through too easily. It was felt that any relievers who had pitched in 20 games no longer were a prospect.

364

beastiemiked
ID: 4720513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:42

Yeah, that's what I thought.

365

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:45

363: exactly. The GP was added the following year IIRC because there were closers who had pitched about the entire season and still hadn't hit the 55 IPs.

366

beastiemiked
ID: 4720513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 14:59

Looking to move up in p draft. You'd get my 9th in the draft plus some.

367

beastiemiked
ID: 4720513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 15:24

Nevermind. Pete took the guy I wanted.

368

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 15:28

Me too. Back to the drawing board!

369

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 15:42

I'm amazed at how many people were amazed that Gray and Polanco went so early. It seemed fairly obvious to me; maybe I read too many magazines. Testament to the quality of this league.

370

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 16:04

I wasn't amazed Polanco went early. Just thought that Bryant, Gray, and Abreu were the clear top 3. That's not taking away from Polanco. Everybody taken so far could easily be superstars in the mlb.

371

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 17:06

If the P-draft continues at this glorious pace, should we consider turning on the Supplemental Draft early?

No need to decide at this moment.....just food for thought.

PS - getting some looky-loos for my 3.01 and 5.17. Time to get down to the nitty-gritty.

372

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 17:06

I figured I could get polanco at 4 which is why I traded down...for a better s draft...

373

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 17:51

I'm ready to start the S draft. Just need to look up how he spells his first name...

374

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 18:06

372: Funny how that belief changed the draft. mjd really wanted him and might have traded with me if Polanco was gone. Emphasis on might.....but still.....so close.

375

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 18:21

I need 24 hour notice for my start of the s draft. Sorry.

376

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 18:43

I'd been happy with Bryant... as would have several of the managers who I was in tuuch with earlier today.

377

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 18:55

Toral's pick stinks.

378

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 18:56

Somebody in the Texas organization is drafting people for their names -- Roughned Odor? Well I got to have that guy.

Judy 375. Gulp. I commend you. I'd need more like 72-hour notice for an unexpected #1 pick. But makes the lottery even more dramatic....

379

beastiemiked
ID: 4720513
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 19:09

Odor was intriguing. Decided on going with a guy that is blocked by like 8 guys and another that'll probably end up as a closer.

380

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 20:34

379: I was THIS close to taking Ventura but decided against it for exactly that reason.

381

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 20:36

Ok......this sucks. Isnt like the middle of the night in Europe where yr is? I might be inclined to extend him some courtesy time. Any objections?

382

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 21:23

No objection.

383

Bh
ID: 5522112
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 21:27

Odor was on my list. So were Davidson, Seager, and Frazier.

384

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 21:30

Ok. Normal hours where the clock will be off are from 11:00pm to 8:00am ET. I am giving youngroman through the blackout time to pick. I have little doubt he will do so overnight.

385

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 21:56

Yr is asleep. He'll be back up around 3:30 am our time. Did someone email him? He can live draft between 3:30 am to 7 pm our time.

386

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 22:02

YR sent me his queue, but I was out from 5-9:30.

I made his pick.

387

Bh
ID: 5522112
Wed, Mar 05, 2014, 23:43

Pete and WG have my one man queue. If GO takes him, I'll pick in the morning.

388

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 08:58

Traded pick to Slizz, he'll post details and a pick soon.

389

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 09:07

I'm getting his 2.02 if anyone wants to trade up for that spot for a mid round pick in the regular draft.

390

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 09:10

Nice pick R9, as usual.

391

slizz
ID: 3013119
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 09:26

TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Slizz:
Prospect Draft 2.02
Supplemental Draft 6.19

GO:
Prospect Draft 1.17
Supplemental Draft 14.3

GO has confirmed...

392

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 09:42

Guru,
Hope it is still good to send you a queue for today.
Will send it shortly.

393

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 10:06

GL - all set!

394

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 10:22

Thanks Dave,
Appreciate it.

395

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 10:23

As most of you know, I am not a big prospect fan. My Mantra: "Prospects Will Break Your Heart!!!"

So, I thought there was no chance of Wong getting to me. Was SURE bmd would take him, but after he passed on him twice, it scared the bejesus out of me. I wanted Heaney and really thought he'd get to me with all of the Ps ranked ahead of him by all the experts. But when he went, I focused on Wong again and sure enough he made it to me. Not the best by far, but fits what I like in that I kind of know what I'm getting and I needed a 2b immediately.

396

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 10:42

Wow.

Wow.

Great minds think alike. I sent GO a trade offer for his pick.....I sent Guru my 1-man queue of?

Lucas Gioloto

You suck slizz! !

397

slizz
ID: 3013119
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:02

I was aggressive in trying to move up to get him. If I didn't trade with Judy, I was 100% taking him over Jonathan Gray if I didn't get any of the hitters.

-had a deal in place with WG to move down two slots for an 8th.
-was in discussions with Ref to trade up.
-GO was aware of my desire to move up pre draft and I offered him a fair package which sealed the deal.

I thought darkside would have taken him at 1.06 but as he kept falling, I knew I would have a shot once he passed R9. Once GO was on the clock, I wanted to make it happen because I would be mad if I didn't get him and did nothing about it. The trades of Bogaerts, Liriano, Uehara, etc gave me the flexibility to make the moves I have so far.

398

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:02

Gioloto is who I was planning to take so he was definitely everyone's late round target.

399

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:04

I had Ref pegged for Wong a long time ago. He was on my list, but wanted a little more upside. Or at least a guy who hit 40 homers as a 19-year old in the minors.

Every single pick so far has been someone on my radar, including Khris Davis, who I considered for an outside-the-box pick before opting to go for the guy who will likely close for the Mets at some point.

I have 3 more picks - looking to move at least one for some S draft improvement. Let me know.

400

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:05

I would have been ok with Wong too, given my lack of hitters right now. If anyone wants to do a simple SP for hitter (any position) trade let me know. Got 4 young arms in Moore, Gio, Cole and Shelby. Would do a simple comparable ranked swap for a OF, 1B whatever.

401

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:05

Sadly, he was not on my radar. I am not good at this prospect thing as I don't spend a lot of time on it.

402

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:42

I submit that we should have a vote now on all the outlying issues. If there isn't support for one then it gets easily defeated. It should be done before s draft. I could be missing one but off the top of my head we have:
1. "tanking proposal" Bottom 3 two years straight plus the fine -- by several
2. "Oscar Taveras Rule" -- Slizz
3. Prospect issue of drafting a player in pdraft when he was on your team within the last week of the season. --removed by Species

403

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:53

Let's do it this way:

1. "tanking proposal 1" Bottom 3 two years straight - lottery
2. "tanking proposal 2" Bottom 3 two years straight - fine
3. "Oscar Taveras Rule" -- Slizz
4. Prospect issue of drafting a player in pdraft when he was on your team within the last week of the season. --removed by Species

404

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:53

1. yes
2. no
3. abstain
4. no

405

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 11:55

Also, if these pass, there need to be many discussions about timing. 2013 can't count as one of the bottom 3 years, and possibly not 2014.

406

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:04

Can someone concisely explain (but not as cryptically as in [403]) the various proposals?

407

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:06

bh, my understanding was the fine would be every year and the bottom 3 would also be every year but obviously only if you were bottom 3 the previous year. What bmd et al were saying (and I see their point) was to give people disincentive for remaining in bottom three--much like we give incentive for top 6 now. So I think they would go into effect now--but obviously p-draft has already begun so that would have to be for the future. Maybe the originators of these rule proposals should post their thinking.

408

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:13

Guru I will do my best. Need to re-read slizz proposal on the Taveras rule though...

1. If you finish in the bottom three, you will be assessed a dues "fine" the following year as follows, 18th $5, 19th, $10, 20th $15.
2. If you finish in the bottom three, in consecutive seasons, you will be ineligible to pick in the top three slots so the best you may select is 4th overall.
3. (Need Slizz to make this concise...)
4. If you had a prosepct-eligible player within the last week of the season, you are ineligible to draft that player in the upcoming Prospect Draft.

409

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:15

(1 & 2 in Ref's post and mine are reversed - for reference, I voted no for the fine and yes for the lottery restrictions).

410

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:19

Also, I'd be fine with #4 being first round only. Just trying to close a potential loophole.

411

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:21

wg times out at 1:02 ET. He has been emailed.

412

WG
ID: 552431321
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:22

Sorry for delay everyone... In and out of meetings. Anyone interested in trading up for this p pick? If I'm going to time out soon I'll pick.

413

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:23

Let's start another thread in the standings forum so the discussion doesn't get lost in here.

My two proposals were:

A fee for the last place team or the bottom 3. I think we should vote on a fee for just the last place team since that seemed more popular. Something small, like $5, to start off and we can always increase in future years if we deem necessary. If the 20th place team doesn't participate in the prize pool then no fee would taken that year.

My other proposal was that a team couldn't win a lottery 2 years in a row. This has less to do with tanking and more just preventing a team getting really lucky two years in a row. For example, if you win the lottery and get a top 3 pick and then finish 10th is it fair for this team to get another top 3 pick over some team that finished bottom five and didn't win the lottery the previous year? Each draft would be separate so if you won the lottery in the prospect draft in 2014 you could still win the lottery in the supplemental draft in 2015.

414

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:29

413: looks like your initial ideas took off and were expanded. Personally, I don't have as much problem with being in top 3 every year as I do, the bottom teams giving up. I can actually see with this rule, were the bottom 4 or 5 teams could actually have cares with the incentive not to finish in bottom 3. Or if a team, is really loading up to win it all the next year, maybe the $15 doesn't bother him/her as they will more than offset that by winning the prize pool the following year or at least being in the money.

415

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 12:50

Guys: Please take the lead on putting these votes together. Only access is via phone....so I can't do that effectively.

WG times out on 12 minutes.

416

R9
ID: 41219518
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 13:02

I was debating between Wong and Heaney for quite a while. I was hoping someone would make my choice for me, but I opted to go for the arm I clearly need over what is looking like a solid-but-not-great 2B bat.

I was watching the debate on Ref's #4 proposal with great interest, as I had Wong on my roster to end the season. I didn't want to enter the discussion because I thought it might make people look at my team and wonder why...

Discussion on rules like this need to either happen before a draft or after, but not during.

417

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 13:08

Re408. #4

So since I had Franco on my roster I would not have been able to p draft him? To get around this -- and I certainly was not trying to be sneaky -- I could drop him mid September. So I guess I could drop him sept 15?

Point of rule?

418

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 13:11

Figured I would go with a lottery ticket-type with my third Prospect Pick......hope I extracted some revenge on Pete!

419

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 13:21

417: The rule is/was in there so teams can't have him on their roster then drop them and pick them up on their prospect roster. A team could take maybe 3 or 4 of these guys even with no intention of keeping them and then be sure to get one of them in the p-draft. This was added after someone brought up the possibility of a team doing it. It was voted on and implemented. Species took the rule out thinking that it could no longer apply after the pdraft moved from midseason to preseason. If he isn't on your team for the last 7 days of eligibility to pick him up, at least someone else had a chance to grab him and keep him and chose not to do so. It likely won't happen, but it could and we are powerless to change that pick if the rule isn't in there.

416: Your analysis is the same as mine. I didn't even think about you having Wong before. Frankly I didn't think he would get by bmd's two picks being in StL. The reason to put the rule back in has nothing to do with anyone's current team. In fact, like I said, the first round of pdraft should suffice as everyone had a chance to pick him up. If the rule doesn't get put back in, then my guess is that someone does it because they can.

420

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 13:27

If someone wants to move one of the next prospect picks, I am interested.

421

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 13:37

New rules thread. Please move all discussion and voting into that thread.

Rules thread

422

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:03

How does that 3 for 1 affect keepers?

423

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:05

422: It has no bearing on it as keepers have already been set.

424

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:21

Huh? So jd has two extra players? And species will be two shy after the draft?

425

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:23

424: No, I won't be short. The trade includes two extra picks to me in the trade. I will have a full roster.

But yes, Jaydog walks into the Supplemental Draft with 11 players. .....same as you in fact.

426

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:27

You are allowed to be short though. You can pick players up when the league is started or even trade during the draft to fill out your roster. There will be a lot of teams with too many picks they will be forfeiting.

427

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:31

But mine were prospect call ups not regulars...

No problem, just wondering how it works.

428

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 14:33

427: You called them up after the keeper deadline. They made this trade after the keeper deadline. Once the keeper deadline hits and everyone gets down to 9 players, you may then go over that number via trade/callup/draft.

429

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 15:07

430

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 15:07

Trade Announcement

2014:
Ref gets 3.01, 5.17 & 7.02
Species gets 10.19, 11.19 & 12.19

2016:
Ref gets Species 10, 11 & 12
Species gets Ref's 2, 4 & 7

431

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 15:33

428. Ok, I get it now. Thanks.

432

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 16:15

430: Confirmed

433

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 17:06

Toral gets Odor and then a Carp. I think it is fair to say that he has had the stinkiest draft ever!

434

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 18:24

Ref with the funny!

435

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 19:11

So when are we now planning to open the s draft? I would prefer Monday am at the earliest. It shouldn't take longer than 7 days to finish...

436

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 19:20

Judy : See post 167, which was emailed to everyone. We would open the draft Saturday and start the clock Monday.

I wanted plenty of time to enter trades and prospects into Draftime. I don't need extra time because I have had some opportunities to stay ahead.

All keepers already input
All trades up to date
All prospects entered as unavailable

I can turn it on earlier without a clock. This is important because there are 180 keepers and like 30 trades on top of dozens of prospects to account for. I need teams to go through their picks, keepers and prospects to ensure accuracy.

Thoughts?

437

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 19:29

Species, my advice would be to make sure everything is right and ask someone to check your work. Then when you are as sure as you can be that everything is set up on the game site and draft site, open it up w/o a clock. Then start a clock on Monday as planned.

The weekend is horrible and we don't want people missing picks. The first round or two usually go quicker than the rest of the draft though. But we still have to be sure that people actually make picks.

I found the best day to start the draft was Thursday. That got us off to a good start before the weekend and only have to draft over one weekend.Typically the P-draft only took a day or so. This P-draft...not so much.

438

beastiemiked
ID: 53512921
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 20:57

GO has timed out. I think.

439

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 21:01

will if its a 4 hour cumulative clock, he has for sure as he was on the clock for a long time before he traded his pick. Has anyone talked to him?

440

darkside
ID: 81492120
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 21:25

For some reason I thought Giolito would be around for my 3rd pick. I don't know why I believed it--I guess because he's just so inexperienced and having had TJ is a big question mark. He looked good at the end of last year, but still has a long way to go. For the sake of the Nats, I hope he pans out.

I was very sad to see allhair take Owings. I was definitely hoping he'd still be around. I was on the fence between him and Guerrero, but thought there was a better chance of him being around in the 3rd round.

It's been a good prospect draft so far. We've had a few lulls, and it's definitely not as fast as last year, but it's on par with the 2012 draft. Either way, thanks to everyone for keeping on top of it and to Species for commishing the league again!

441

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 22:17

Species -- idiot me. Forgot I could use espn to find FA's. I'll be fine. You can turn it on anytime and I'll set a queue for my first pick...

442

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 22:35

...which I believe is 1.04...

443

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 06, 2014, 23:40

Great One has timed out of his Cumulative Clock. All of his picks will automatically be skipped.

He should still be emailed so he know it's his turn. He may make up lost picks at ANY time.

444

Ref
ID: 55156513
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 09:16

I am going to email GO, but the drafting rule we always used was if you were skipped you had until the end of the draft (or 3 hours after you are skipped--whichever is greater) to get your pick in or you lost it. While that isn't much of a penalty for a normal draft as you can just pick up a FA, the P-draft isn't open for another year.

445

Ref
ID: 55156513
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 09:36

He told me he is picking.

446

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 10:04

I'd certainly vote to make an exception to let him make this pick, if needed.

GO appears to be busy these last couple days - I hope that's a good thing for him, and that it doesn't impact the S draft (not that he has too many picks anyway).

447

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 10:05

Agree with what BH said.
So out of norm for him.

448

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 10:08

I don't see why that should be a rule for the P-draft anyway. There should be some sort of grace period after the final pick (24 hours, perhaps), but if you get tied up near the end of the draft, you shouldn't get closed out entirely.

449

Species
ID: 6235110
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 10:08

GO picked.

The pick stands.

450

GO
ID: 01020815
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 11:14

Whats funny is... yesterday 7 PM all was fine, then I miss a pick for 4:17 hours and everyone's worried, Ref's getting my picks shutdown and trying to close down the draft. My next pick came up at 7:45 when the clock wasn't even on and I was ready to pick at 8:30. Once I knew I was last I took my time debating a last couple things. A lot happens in 13 hours.

451

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 12:20

And a good pick it was. Rollins is on the down slide. This kid Crawford just has to ease up the minor league ladder for maybe two years and he should be ready...

452

Ref
ID: 55156513
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 12:41

GO, I was emailing you. I was only emailed one time (3 picks away) the entire draft to tell me I was coming up. I agree that the P-draft should be a longer rope. As I said, there is not the incentive to delay like the s-draft and it is a much bigger penalty. I was trying to be proactive to help you. You were on the clock quite awhile before trading your first pick. Then...ah nevermind. I give up. I'll mind my own business.

453

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 12:48

Half the draft will be over before I make my first pick!!

454

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 13:01

EVERYONE: please be sure to visit the rules discussion/voting thread as noted in post 421. Everyone's participation is vital.

Onto the Supplemental Draft! I will turn it on tonight. Clock starts Monday. Please review your own keepers and picks.

As always, the items posted in the forums - keepers, trades - take precedence. If I enter something incorrectly, it can be corrected.

455

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 13:55

Re 453: looks like Species is tanking! Let's make some new rules!

Quick note: I intend to make my first pick as soon as the clock starts. Hint: he has the same first name as me. So Great One and Pete, I hope you're already looking at options.

456

GO
ID: 01020815
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 14:10

I know Ref, thanks for trying to keep things moving.

457

GO
ID: 01020815
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 14:22

Can we open Draftime so I can make a que? Still looking to trade down if someone's got extra 2-4 rounders.

458

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 14:34

bh, Blue Moon Odom has been retired for 30 years. Don't think he's a good 1st round selection.

459

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 14:37

Now BMD with the funny! Who's next?

460

GO
ID: 01020815
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 14:46

Super Dave #1 Pick

461

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 14:54

Nah, I'd prefer to go with the "Dave's Not Here" guy.

462

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 18:35

Supplemental Draft grid:

	Round 1	Round 2	Round 3	Round 4	Round 5	Round 6	Round 7
1	blue hen	blue hen	Ref	Jaydog	slizz	youngroman	GreatOne
2	GreatOne	slizz	slizz	slizz	Judy	slizz	Ref
3	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.	Pete N.
4	Judy	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd
9	slizz	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	bmd	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral
13	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	blue hen	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	Toral	allhair	allhair
17	darkside	darkside	Toral	Pete N.	Ref	GreatOne	GoatLocker
18	blue hen	blue hen	R9	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen	blue hen
19	Ref	Ref	Ref	Toral	Ref	GreatOne	Ref
20	Pete N.	WG	WG	WG	Pete N.	Judy	Nerfherders

	Round 8	Round 9	Round 10	Round 11	Round 12	Round 13	Round 14
1	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species	Species
2	slizz	blue hen	slizz	slizz	Ref	Species	WG
3	Pete N.	bmd	Tosh	WG	Pete N.	Pete N.	slizz
4	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru	Guru
5	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	WG	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders	Nerfherders
6	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	darkside	GreatOne	darkside
7	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd	mjd
8	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	bmd	Guru	GoatLocker
9	Judy	Judy	Tosh	WG	slizz	Judy	Judy
10	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GoatLocker	GreatOne	GoatLocker	GoatLocker
11	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	Tosh	WG	Tosh	WG
12	Toral	Toral	Toral	Toral	GreatOne	allhair	Ref
13	R9	R9	blue hen	R9	R9	R9	R9
14	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Jaydog	Species	slizz	Species
15	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	youngroman	Species
16	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair	allhair
17	GreatOne	darkside	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	GreatOne	Species
18	blue hen	blue hen	slizz	Species	blue hen	Pete N.	youngroman
19	Ref	Ref	Species	Species	Species	Ref	Ref
20	slizz	Judy	WG	WG	WG	WG	WG

463

beastiemiked
ID: 53512921
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 21:48

I know it's been said but let's be diligent in picking up our players from ESPN. Nothing is more frustrating than finding a gem and finding out that he was actually drafted 2 rounds earlier.

464

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 21:58

Are we adding our picks to our team in espn?

465

Judy
ID: 54203110
Fri, Mar 07, 2014, 21:58

Oops. Did not refresh before asking...

466

GO
ID: 11131520
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 08:10

Draftime wasn't open and I emailed a que... can we reset my cumulative clock? I don't wnat to get in trouble again!

467

Bh
ID: 5522112
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 09:36

I support that. Same for me- I got 41 minutes after posting who I was going to take right here on this board!

468

Species
ID: 6235110
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 10:20

Clock doesn't start until Monday. You're safe from Captain Tightwad's cumulative clock.

469

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 10:26

Thanks to whoever added Dunn for me.
The Kids are up for the weekend, so balancing time.
Will be better today and tomorrow.
But, will still need somebody to add during the week.

470

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 16:19

Tremendous value getting Napoli this late...nice pick.

471

youngroman
ID: 57047243
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 17:35

the same can be said about Aramis Ramirez, whom I had 1st in my queue, but I was pretty sure that either R9 or jaydog picks him because they need a 3B too.

472

Bh
ID: 5522112
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 18:32

I'm here but looking at a couple deals. Will pick soon.

473

R9
ID: 41219518
Sat, Mar 08, 2014, 19:22

471, I was pretty surprised Aramis slipped that far, until I looked at all the teams in front... they either had a 3B or the player they chose was a better choice.

474

allhair allstars
Sustainer
ID: 50902421
Sun, Mar 09, 2014, 00:26

I was unhappy YR took Napoli... once it got past Goatlocker I started to allow myself to think he might make it down to us... only had to get by youngroman. It's unfortunate my draft has started out with so much name calling.

475

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Mar 09, 2014, 01:44

Whoever picked up Dozier for me, thanks, was an autopick and just checked to add and was done.

476

bmd
ID: 36212719
Sun, Mar 09, 2014, 13:21

I probably would've taken Napoli but the dual eligibility of Swisher was too valuable to pass up.

477

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sun, Mar 09, 2014, 15:31

...

Jeopardy Think Music

478

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Sun, Mar 09, 2014, 15:58

How dumb of me to pick, when the clock hadn't started, before the next picker had an autopick ready.

I never learn, do I?

479

slizz
ID: 3013119
Sun, Mar 09, 2014, 17:02

Shame on you, Toral...

Go directly to jail, do not pass go do NOT collect $200 dollars!

480

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Mon, Mar 10, 2014, 01:26

You know, Species has done a Helluva jon as (main)commissioner. I think he's definitely moved from the "Gen. William Eckert" class, in which he has preciously resided, to the Harry Pulliam/John Heydler class.

483

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 10, 2014, 17:19

Had to look up Pulliam. I true Toral recalls that he blew his own head off.......hmmmmmmmm. Wonder what he is saying.

484

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 10, 2014, 17:38

I trust*

485

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Mon, Mar 10, 2014, 23:50

Pick 12.08 is for sale. Either looking for a super small draft upgrade this year or a round 12 pick next year.

486

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 00:37

Attn Species - It appears you did not set a nightly pause when you started the clock today.

Toral's clock is still running w/ 1 hour 51 minutes left.

I assume the clock should have stopped 37 minutes ago (midnight Eastern)

487

R9
ID: 41219518
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 02:56

Not sure what to do now, I don't want to pick since Toral is on the clock but I can't leave a queue either since its on my pick.

488

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 11:10

Corrected. My apologies. Thought I had done it.....I guess I didn't take the last required step.

489

slizz
ID: 3013119
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 12:19

Toral, are you just trying to mess with us?

First, you draft smelly prospects...
Second, you got upset that you picked with no clock...
Third, you don't pick when there is a clock...

What gives?

490

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 15:15

When did I get upset when I picked with no clock?

OK, I was upset when I saw myself as being a missed pcock in the middle of the night...but the pick was my own panicking and no one's fault but my own. Such picks often turn out to tbe Cy Youndgwinners or such.

491

Nerfherders
ID: 347152518
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 17:01

I think the draft pauses all reset to nil after the outage. Same thing happened in the AA draft.

492

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 17:21

And what is the evidence for your thinking?

This did not occur in either this draft, not the AA draft (where the Commissoner made a pick himself after a piik that had been missed because he han't reset the nightly pause!)

Luckily we are all experienced players and can deal with it.

493

slizz
ID: 3013119
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 19:02

Just busting your chops Toral...

494

Ref
ID: 55156513
Tue, Mar 11, 2014, 19:06

Btw, I was ready to pick but drafttime is down. Can someone email me when it gets back up?

495

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 11:39

Species strategy update:

My team is transitioning from "dump everything you can" to "get some keepers and hold them". As it stands now, I own 9 players that could potentially be my 2015 keepers:

C - Santana
1b - Abreu
SS - Bogaerts
3b - Longoria
Of - Kemp
Of - Myers
P - Felix
P - Harvey
P - Stephenson

While I will listen to anything, in a general sense I am not looking to trade these guys......or, better said, I am not moving these guys for picks or for things too far in the future. I will be back to being relatively competitive in 2015, with probably a more realistic goal of Championships starting in 2016.

That said, almost anyone I draft that doesn't have keeper value can be had :)

That is all.

I am excited to be able to make my first pick soon!!!

496

Nerfherders
ID: 347152518
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 11:57

Wow my queue was emptied within 5 picks of making it. Everyone looking for the same thing right now

497

Species
ID: 271152305
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 12:13

Btw - PLEASE PICK UP YOUR PLAYERS IN ESPN!!

498

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 12:35

DITTO!!

Hate finding a good player only to see he is gone!! Waste if my time!!

499

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 12:46

Why use ESPN for that? I already have to enter picks (not just mine, everyone's) into two different data tools, plus cross names off my post-it, plus the actual pick on Draftime. How did you earn the right to be so lazy?

500

bmd
ID: 36212719
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 13:53

Way easier to sort players and much more convenient if you use multiple devices. Perhaps we should use pen and paper like you did for the prospect draft.

501

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 14:01

Prospects in ESPN hurts sorting too.

FWIW, Drafttime is down again. Will pick as soon as I can.

502

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 15:35

I already have to enter picks (not just mine, everyone's) into two different data tools, plus cross names off my post-it, plus the actual pick on Draftime.

Use pen and paper: check.

503

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 15:51

Looking to move up. Will trade my 8.08 and 9.03 for your 7th and last round pick.

504

Ref
ID: 55156513
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 17:39

I am getting trade offers. I have responded but no responses back. I can move down here. I am going to make my pick if I don't get anything really soon.

505

Species
ID: 6235110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 18:14

Woooo hoooooo!

I get my first pick of the draft soon!

506

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 21:42

All,
Sorry I'm not picking up my players, but have no access at all from about 7AM to 5PM.
My picks have all been Queue picks except the weekend.

507

Judy
ID: 54203110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 22:47

I have only two picks left 8.09 and 9.09 as I have an extra from a trade and brought up two prospects.

I also only have two spots left on my roster, so it works.

I am still listed in draft time for picks 9.20, 13.09 md 14.09.

What to do?

508

bmd
ID: 36212719
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 22:53

How do you pick someone not in the database? I want to select billy burns, of, oak

509

bmd
ID: 36212719
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 22:55

Never mind.

510

Species
ID: 6235110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 22:57

508: Sorry bmd.....your drafting of Burns is illegal, per our rules:

Supplemental Draft, FA Pickups and Waivers
The Draft will be held prior to every season after Keepers are announced. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order of previous years finish and will not snake.

Players must be available in the ESPN player pool to be drafted or added during the season via FA or WW.

511

Species
ID: 6235110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 23:00

I don't know how to delete your pick in Draftime.

bmd: please post a replacement pick here and pick them up in ESPN. I will then remove that player form the Draftime Database so there is no duplication.

512

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 23:18

What? Why exactly is that a rule? So I can't draft a guy that played AA last year just because ESPN is a slow pony. What happens if he gets added between now and the end of the draft?

513

Species
ID: 6235110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 23:24

It's been that rule since I joined the league. Sorry man....you are SOL right now.

Technically, if he is added to the database he would be eligible to be drafted.

I think the rule is a good one. WHY do we have it? Because we have to have the website police rosters as much as possible. Our prospect system is enough of a pain in the a$$ to administer manually......I'm not going to do it for every Tom, Dick and Harry we want to draft in the supplemental draft.

slizz and I both sat around waiting for Gregory Polanco to be added all summer for naught and there was nothing we could do about it.

514

Species
ID: 6235110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 23:27

507: Judy - I'll have to ask KKB if I can pre-program skipping those picks, but otherwise I (or another admin) will have to skip the pick manually when it comes up.

515

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 23:36

I can understand in-season why it is there. During our draft anyone that isn't an amateur player should be available.

516

Species
ID: 6235110
Wed, Mar 12, 2014, 23:53

I'm sticking to the rule. Burns is ineligible to be drafted.

I suggest you choose another player......post it here......pick him up in ESPN.......and I will remove said player from Draftime.

Soon.........going to bed!

517

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 00:05

Jarrod Dyson

518

Species
ID: 6235110
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 00:11

Done.

519

Species
ID: 6235110
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 08:25

Trade:

Species gets:

Judy's 2014 9.20
Judy's 2015 14th

Judy gets:
blue hen's 2015 12th

520

Judy
ID: 54203110
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 08:44

Yup.

521

beastiemiked
ID: 53512921
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 09:13

12.08 still available. Only looking for a super small upgrade in 2015.

522

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 09:43

I have it from a reliable source that Burns might be added to the player pool next week. Given that, it's worth discussing BMD's pick further. I'm not saying we should do anything about it (I don't have a strong opinion) but it's worth a deeper discussion.

Also worth talking about what that means for the Dyson pick, who might realistically have been in the queue for people who picked after the Burns pick.

524

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 10:40

I'd love for some people to weigh in, but it seems like the prevailing sentiment is that the Burns pick is not allowed, so Dyson stands as the pick.

Question for the future: if Burns gets added to ESPN, and we are still drafting, are we allowed to draft him? He'll go on waivers for two days, so can't pick him up, but can he be drafted?

525

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 11:28

I don't like a rule where a player only becomes eligible to be drafted sometime during the draft.

I can think of a couple of possible solutions:
1. Freeze the list of eligible players at the start of the draft. (Not sure how to administer that. Someone would need to save a list at the start of the draft, which seems problematic.)

2. Allow anyone to be drafted during the draft, but if a drafted player is not listed on ESPN by some date (either the end of draft or the start of the season), then that pick is voided. This is less problematic to administer. If we went this way, I think I'd opt for the start of the season as the cutoff date.

526

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 12:16

The pick being disallowed shouldn't really need a discussion. We have had a rule in place for years, and it is bmd's error.

When a rule is ambiguous, I tend to think of the intent of the rule and most of the time give the manager the benefit of the doubt. That isn't the case here.

You have to draw the line somewhere. It sucks for bmd because now everyone should be checking into him. bmd gets a little bit penalized for jumping on an emerging player in camp. He should have waited for some guidance first.....or checked the rules, understood that he can't draft him yet and keep his mouth shut until such time as he was added.

I am open to suggestions on what to do with him. Absent any good ideas, I would lean to basically saying "tough $hit", and if Burns is added to the database during the draft, he immediately becomes eligible to draft, because our rules state that to be drafted he must be in the ESPN database. IMO his waiver status is immaterial.

527

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 12:20

How about if we come across a guy like this not in the system during the draft -- we note it here and nobody else can draft him either during this draft.

528

slizz
ID: 3013119
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 12:57

Really don't have much to add to the discussion. I agree with Species.

529

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 13:00

I also agree.

530

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 16:14

So the ruling is tough shit and if he gets added before the end of the draft he's free game?

531

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 16:26

BTW, not mad at species about this. Just want a firm ruling. Definitely think we need to change it for future drafts.

532

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 16:31

Two things I play:

1) Ruling stands that it was an illegal pick (which it doesn't seem that you are arguing)

2) I am open to arguments/discussion on Burns' status going forward. Tough S was were I would lean.

I find it hard to call Burns ineligible when, bluntly, it was your mistake. Why shouldn't someone have the right to draft him? It's not 19 other manager's faults that you pulled the trigger early. Who is to say he wasn't on other teams' radar before you? They get screwed for following the rules and hoping he is added later?

It sucks regardless.....I just don't know of something "more fair" than to say he is just as much fair game now as he would/would not have been if you didn't illegally try to draft him. Get where I'm trying to go with this?

533

GO
ID: 01020815
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 16:41

With all my late picks I can just wait and wait and wait til he's added... wooo!!!! (See how that's not fair either)

534

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 17:11

Species, you make it sound like I intentionally circumvented the rules to draft him. It was a mistake. I assumed someone that played at AA and had an outside shot of making the mlb club would be in ESPN's database. My bad.

The rule needs to be changed. We have a 20 team deep league. I'm sure there are others besides Burns that have an outside shot of making the mlb club. I like what Guru suggested that if they aren't in the database by opening day then the pick is voided.

BTW, I plan on timing out(you can skip me if you want) my last pick so I can draft him if he ever gets added to the database before the end of our draft. I hear he might be getting added next week sometime...

535

slizz
ID: 3013119
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 17:30

It should be the owners responsibility to check ESPN prior to drafting a player. Everybody had a shot at him in the p-draft. That's like telling a cop you weren't speeding when you get pulled over for going 65 in a 45 (picking burns when the rules state otherwise) because two miles down the road it turns to a 65mph zone (justifying selection because Burns is possibly going to get added)...

GO - I know you're being sarcastic, but if you wish to take the full three hours and wait for him, so be it. That's why we have a time limit...

536

Ref
ID: 55156513
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 17:39

If they are not on the 40 man roster, they have no business being in the database. CBS used to make profiles of young guys but make them unable to be picked up. ESPN is supposed to not have them in if they are not on 40 man roster, but they are all over the place with their rules. How Pederson and Stephenson were ever in the database so Species could pick them up last year is unreal. They have zero shot to even be called up in September if they aren't on that 40 man roster. Then being able to be a keeper? Unreal--but they were in the database, so whatever.

Bottom line is that all of our deep Gurupie leagues have always had the same rule since the start. Burns isn't on the 40 man roster--let alone 25 man roster to make the team--and why would Oakland add him to that until cut down date at the end of March anyway? Remember season officially starts in Australia. I would be surprised if ESPN added this person to the db when he isn't on the 40 man and his highest level is AA. But then again there is Stephenson and Pederson and others I am sure. We have the P-draft for these guys, right?

It's a simple mistake by bmd. This isn't a big deal. If he makes the team, ESPN will add him and he will go on waivers for a couple days after our draft is over. At least that's how it should work. We can't make an exception after the draft has started. What if Species or Slizz or Joe Schmo wanted him and knew they couldn't draft him? But again, this is why we have the Pdraft, right?

537

Species
ID: 271152305
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 18:26

534: Sorry it sounded that way. That is definitely not my intention......was more focused on the fact that your unintentional action was what resulted in a ruling against you.

538

R9
ID: 41219518
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 18:38

I think if they've gone through the p-draft process, then they should definitely be available in the s-draft.

I like what Guru suggested that if they aren't in the database by opening day then the pick is voided.

I think this is fine. KKB's draft site lets us manually put in people as well, so it works all around. We can simply make a list of people who were drafted this way, check them at the season's opening day and if they aren't in ESPN the pick is voided. It shouldn't be a very long list each year...

539

darkside
ID: 81492120
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 21:01

I'm fairly indifferent as to whether the rule changes, but do agree with the ruling.

I always forget how much time and effort the the fantasy draft season takes. Thanks to folks like Species who are doing even more work!

540

bmd
ID: 36212719
Thu, Mar 13, 2014, 21:26

Yeah, it was the correct ruling. Hopefully next year we can discuss changing the rule since there are definitely non 40 man guys that occasionally make the MLB club.

542

Species
ID: 6235110
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 10:09

Not knowing how much of the clock whittled away while Draftime was down, I have reset WG's clock.

543

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 10:17

Worth voting on:

Starting with the 2015, all players who have been through a P draft are eligible to be taken in the S draft. Picks in the S draft who are not in the ESPN/site database by April 1 are voided.

I vote yes.

545

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 10:30

yes

546

WG
ID: 552431321
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 12:21

Looking to move up in this round if anyone is willing to trade

547

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:06

2 questions:

Since I called up Wacha will I lose my last pick since it would put me over the max roster size?

Do I need to draft a catcher? I have Pinto as a prospect that will be called up but would rather wait to call him up until the very last moment?

548

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:07

I vote yes

549

darkside
ID: 81492120
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:15

I vote yes

550

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:21

543: Lol.....wouldn't everyone have gone through a P-Draft ??

I want everyone to know that if you vote yes, you also volunteer to be called upon to track this crap!!!

I vote no.

551

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:27

547:

1) Yes. You lose your last round pick. Judy was going to forfeit three before trading one.

2) No. You need to have a full lineup when the season starts though.

552

beastiemiked
ID: 5911312710
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:31

Last call! Pick 12.08 is for sale. Looking for a 13th round pick in 2015.

553

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:43

[550] It seems to me that this proposal is easier to track than the status quo. If you can't add a drafted player to your ESPN roster by April 1st, then you're just left with an open spot to fill. I'm not sure what there really is to track, other than by the team manager affected.

554

GO
ID: 01020815
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:50

Did someone reset my and BH's clocks from our first picks?

555

darkside
ID: 81492120
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 13:54

I understood it as Guru explains it. If I'm missing something, I'd reconsider my vote. But, as I see it, everyone who is on a professional baseball team goes through the P-draft (not just those in the ESPN database, thereby opening Burns up to be drafted in the S-draft) and anyone not taken there can be drafted in the S-draft. But, if they're not in the database by April 1 the pick is voided and that team just has a roster spot to fill.

Anything I'm missing?

556

Toral
Leader
ID: 2111201313
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 17:54

Do I have any picks left? Or is my last draft choice assigned to 10th callup Jake Odorizzi?

557

WG
ID: 552431321
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 20:01

11.03 to Jaydog for Yan Gomes, plus 2015 9-14 swap in his favor

Please update Draftime, or Jaydog, post who you want and I'll pick.

558

slizz
ID: 3013119
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 20:27

TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

BMD Trades:
S-Draft 12.08
2015 14th round pick

Slizz Trades:
2015 13th round pick

BMD, please confirm.

559

bmd
ID: 36212719
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 20:41

Confirm.

560

Bh
ID: 5522112
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 21:11

Trade Announcement

BH trades: 2015 11th rounder
WG trades: 2015 11th rounder

561

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 21:29

Both processed. Hope Jaydog agrees!

562

Species
ID: 271152305
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 21:33

560: Challenge trade!

563

Bh
ID: 5522112
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 21:41

Challenge trade indeed. I believe it's also the first trade in the history of G20 consummated in person.

564

Tosh
Leader
ID: 057721710
Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 22:51

556 - I just added Jackson and Quintana to your roster at ESPN, so your roster is full.

Species - You will need to skip Toral's pick 11.12.

565

WG
ID: 59552022
Sat, Mar 15, 2014, 09:44

Confirmed

Can I get Yan Gomes and Ervin Santana placed on my team, please? Thanks.

566

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Mar 15, 2014, 10:07

[565] done

567

Ref
ID: 55156513
Sat, Mar 15, 2014, 12:58

An 11th rounder isn't much of a challenge.

568

PeteN.
ID: 530592918
Sat, Mar 15, 2014, 13:33

After my pick at 12.03, please skip my two picks in the 13th round. I've used those slots calling up Singleton and Rondon.

570

Judy
ID: 54203110
Sat, Mar 15, 2014, 15:12

Somehow I will have one bench spot open on my roster even after I pick up Asche and bradley. Huh? Did I goof? Cannot figure out where... Whatever. Only dregs left anyway...

571

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 01:56

My draft pick 13.10 will fill my roster due to calling up Gausman and Yelich.
So, will not be using 14.08 or 14.10.
If somebody needs S picks, will trade them for an equivalent pick in 2015.

572

Bh
ID: 5522112
Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 14:19

4 votes yes, 1 vote no on the Billy Burns situation. Please exercise your right!

I also want to bring up another item for voting: if you call up a 10th keeper, you have to use an S draft pick for it; your lowest one, judged at the start of the draft. That will keep people from having these extra picks at the end. Maybe it doesn't matter, but I want to see what you guys think. Starts in 2015, obviously.

573

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 14:34

"if you call up a 10th keeper, you have to use an S draft pick for it; your lowest one, judged at the start of the draft."

Works for me.
In essence, that will be what happens it looks like.

574

Species
ID: 6235110
Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 21:04

I drafted LeMahieu. He's on mjd's roster. I assume a friendly commish (or mjd?) made an error. Adjusting.

575

Species
ID: 6235110
Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 21:05

572/573: Our rule is backwards. Basically once you have 23 players, your draft is over. If you have unused picks, it doesn't matte.

576

PeteN.
ID: 530592918
Sun, Mar 16, 2014, 21:51

My roster is full. Picks 13.03 and 13.18 will need to be skipped.

577

GoatLocker
Leader
ID: 060151121
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 09:47

Pick 13.10 will fill my roster.
Picks 14.08 and 14.10 need to be skipped.

578

Species
ID: 6235110
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 09:48

My roster is full. Picks 13.03 and 13.18 will need to be skipped.

Thanks Pete.

I humbly request that all teams do the same thing. Please review your rosters and advise here if there are picks of yours that need skipping due to call ups or trades.

Thanks.

579

Species
ID: 6235110
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 09:55

For the rule change from post 221 that passed, I have added the following verbiage to our constitution. Clarifications/wordsmithing welcomed:

"Trades for draft picks - be they Supplemental or Prospect picks - may only be consummated within two drafts from the date of the trade. Example: in March 2015 before the Supplemental Draft, one can only trade either 2015 or 2016 picks. In June 2015, one could trade either 2016 or 2017 picks, etc."

580

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 09:55

My pick 14.04 will be skipped. My roster will fill with 13.08

581

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 11:14

please skip 14.07 due to prospect call up

582

Judy
ID: 54203110
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 12:20

Somehow I only have 22. I'll just add someone later...I am pretty sure I added everyone I drafted. Oh well.

583

slizz
ID: 3013119
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 13:52

I'm showing you only had 13 picks, not 14. I'm sure it got mixed up from some trade.

584

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 14:19

She called up two prospects. She should be good. Havent done any auditing.....

585

Species
ID: 271152305
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 17:44

Patrick Corbin and now Jarrod Parker to go under the knife. Yeeeeeesh!

586

R9
ID: 41219518
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 19:25

I'll call up Carlos Martinez, which completes my roster. Pick 14.13 is forfeited.

587

Ref
ID: 55156513
Mon, Mar 17, 2014, 23:11

My draft is over. Please skip my remaining picks.

588

Judy
ID: 54203110
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 09:36

Species -- I think I get one more pick. So I will put one into draftime. I've checked and re checked and I only have 20 in draftime plus archie and cody call ups.

589

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 10:50

[585] good timing on the trade of Corbin...

590

blue hen
ID: 4739168
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 10:55

[589] Well, if he had been thrown back into the draft, and he lasted to 1.18, I probably would have taken him over Parker. So there's no winning that one.

591

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 11:37

I don't think you can close the draft unless you put some random name in those missed picks.

592

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 11:56

My roster is full... see 581

593

GO
ID: 01020815
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 12:00

Thats great and all that you guys are doing that but if there are "Missed Picks" in Draftime the draft will never move to a completed and archived status.

594

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 12:10

So what do I do?

595

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 12:21

Not that worried about cleaning up Draftime right now.....can figure that out later. Yes, it's important to eventually clean that up for archival.....but let's finish up and get the rosters right on ESPN.

So did we eventually figure out that judy wants/needs this last pick?

596

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 12:35

That got answered fast. Sweet. Almost done!

Looks like ref, R9 and judy are all skips. My picks are queued up.....let's do this!

597

slizz
ID: 3013119
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 13:00

Why not allow the "missed picks" to be the guys they called up?

I.E. R9 selects Carlos Martinez at 14.13

598

judy
Dude
ID: 7771722
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 13:17

I can put archie and cody into my missed picks...
That OK?

599

Species
ID: 271152305
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 13:28

Oooops. Apparently I can't count. My pick of Mike Dunn is invalid. I should have skipped my pick.

He is available to the remaining drafters.

Your prospect call ups are removed from Draftime. I will try to fix it later.

600

slizz
ID: 52050296
Tue, Mar 18, 2014, 21:39

2013 SEASON IN REVIEW

Draft Objective: Complete roster overhaul and find 9 bona fide keepers for the 2014 season while competing to be in the top half of the league in 2013.

I finished 19th...so much for finishing in the top half. However, I wouldn't consider the finish to be a total loss. I was on my way to finishing somewhere near 11th-13th when opportunities presented themselves by the way of trades:

-Rex Brothers, Jarrod Parker, and Liriano to WG;
-Koji Uehara to Ref;
-Bonifacio to BH, etc.

While those players would've helped buoy my place in the standing, I felt trading them was in the best interest of the team for future seasons. It should be noted the picks acquired for those players helped net me some pretty good prospects in the p-draft.

That said, I knew I could make up ground in pitching, but I had no idea how bad my offense would be. It's extremely difficult to makeup any ground when one's offense is so anemic (11 points total). Moreover, my roster overhaul is nearly complete and I should be set for future seasons.

I only have two regrets about the season: Not making a deal with GO for Starling Marte (I think he said Marte was mine for a 5th) preseason, and cutting Danny Salazar after he was first sent down. WG had the smarts to pick him up on Waivers and he was immediately called up weeks later. Those are two obvious keepers that I would love to have.

To give you an idea how bad my team was going into the year, here were my keepers:

1. Justin Morneau, 1B, MIN - Run of the mill 1B
2. Dustin Ackley, 2B, SEA - While Ackley won't be anything more than a Michael Brantley going forward, 2B eligiblity this season is a steal for BMD....
3. Todd Frazier, 3B, CIN - my best keeper...yuck. Don't get me wrong I think hes a good player, but to be the best keeper on your entire squad?
4. Dee Gordon, SS, LAD - thought he'd pan out...guess not.
5. Cameron Maybin, OF, SD - see above
6. Darin Ruf, OF, PHI - see above
7. Jonathon Niese, SP, NYM - solid player, just not a keeper
8. Jarrod Parker, SP, OAK - keeper quality, just not an elite one. (Package for Jon Lester)
9. Addison Reed, RP, CHW - my only 2014 keeper
10. Tyler Skaggs, SP, AZ - renounce and call-up. Awesome long-term grab by Species.

2014 KEEPERS

Wow...what a difference. It's nice to finally have some guys who are worthy of being kept for a change:

1B - Chris Carter, 27, HOU: After having the least amount of RBI's and second worst HR and R last season, I needed some power. Chris Carter is still young enough where a "breakout" is possible (see Davis, Chris), but if he doesn't, his power will be a big upgrade over Justin Morneau.

2B - Anthony Rendon, 23, WSH: Was the consensus #1 bat in the 2011 MLB Draft and has tore up minor league pitching. That said, I don't think he will ever terrorize MLB pitching...however, I am optimistic he could become a .350(ob%)/20/90/90/5 type player in his prime.

3B - Nolan Arenado, 22, COL: While I think Arenado is a solid player, I don't think he will ever be more than a Tier 2 3B. In this league, thats a keeper. Would like him to get more stolen bases...

SS - Jonathan Villar, 22, HOU: One word can describe this keeper: Speed. I am largely devoid of it, and he should give me similar production to Everth Cabrera circa 2013...plus I have Correa up by the end of the 2015 season.

OF - Dominic Brown, 26, PHI: Elite potential to be a 30/10 guy. If he could only improve his OB% a tad.

OF - Oswaldo Arcia, 21, MIN: .222 isolated power in his minor league career and profiles as a potential 30-homer hitter in his prime. By 2017, the Twins could have a lethal middle-of-the-order trio of Buxton, Sano and Arcia.

SP - Jose Fernandez, 21, MIA: No explanation needed.

SP - Jon Lester, 30, BOS: The veteran of my team. While his age isn't exactly screaming long-term keeper, he is a solid pitcher and #2 on just about anyone's staff. I'm hoping he builds off of that sizzling postseason performance where he only allowed 6 runs in 34 innings and am excited to see what he brings to the table in his contract year.

RP - Addison Reed, 25, ARI: Great K/9 and has improved each year he has been in the show. I'm hoping he continues that trend and racks up another 40 saves.

All in all...I finally have a strong foundation to build on where I can be a contender for seasons to come. Combine that foundation with Correa, Bryant, and Giolito, the sun is finally rising for my team. While I don't think I will even sniff the top 5 of the league this year, I don't anticipate I will be putrid like last year...

PROSPECT DRAFT

After the odds were drawn, I got 1.04. My first thought - where is Pete drafting? 5th...damn! I pegged him for Gray if he didn't get 1.01 as he already has Hosmer and Singleton, so Abreu was out. As a result, I knew hitters would go 1-3 and I would have no shot at Bryant, Polanco, and Abreu at 4...I immediately sent Judy a congratulatory email for her winning the draft and gauged her interest in trading down.

To my surprise, Judy wasn't expecting to win 1.01, had someone she was really interested in, and thought he would be available at 4. Immediately, I thought "Maikel Franco" and made an aggressive offer as I would have to act quick. Knowing Franco would be there @ 4, I figured a nice jump in the s-draft first round and a mid-rd draft pick would seal the deal.

My board:

1) Bryant
2) Abreu
3) Polanco
4) Giolito
5) Gray

In a perfect scenario, I would've been elated to pick 1.03 as I would just have taken the leftover hitter...unfortunately, that didn't happen. I knew 4 would've been a reach for Gioltio, but I didn't want to risk not getting him either.

pick 1.01 - Kris Bryant, 3B, CHC - Top hitting prospect with a floor of Josh Willingham with infield eligibility...could rise to be a top 10 mixed league pick. Figured it was worth the risk over Jose Abreu as 1B tend to be easier to find then 3B...hopefully that risk pays off as I already have Arenado.

pick 1.17 - Lucas Giolito, SP, WSH. I was trying to move up to get him as I was afraid that someone else in the teens might want him. I sent emails to GO, Ref, BH, and even WG about moving up in the draft to nab the #4 player on my board. GO made it known he was looking to acquire mid-rd draft compensation so I originally made an offer of s-draft 1.02 odds for 1.17 and Matt Moore...right before he traded Carlos Beltran. Obviously, he nixed that deal...but he wasn't opposed to trading down to the 2.02 pick. If he did not get back to me, WG and Ref had no problems moving down. Needless to say, I was making sure Gioltio would be on my team.

As per Baseball Prospectus, he should challenge Buxton for prospect supremacy in 2015 and Brett Sayre of Baseball Prospectus/Dynasty Guru has him at #17, and had this to say:

-Fantasy Overview: Four-category contributor; impact potential in W, K, ERA, WHIP
-Realistic Ceiling: The best fantasy starter in baseball
-Realistic Floor: You mean there’s another option here?

Hence, my excitement...

SUPPLEMENTAL DRAFT

Like every owner, I identify players that I want on my team and script the first 5-6 picks and guys that I want on the team and could be keepers in the future. This year was no different. Here were my targets (by round):

1.09 - Best available Closer...preferably Perkins
2.02 - Avisail Garcia
3.02 - Rick Porcello
4.02 - Jarrod Parker, A.J. Griffin, Dan Straily (leftover A's starter)
5.02 - Marcell Ozuna, Ben Revere
6.02 - Tyson Ross, Nathan Eovaldi

Late(r) Targets: Tyler Skaggs, Sergio Santos, Derek Norris, Drew Pomeranz

1.09 - Neftali Feliz, RP, TEX - My pre-keeper closer rankings were 1) Cishek, 2) Perkins, 3) ehhh...really didn't have another option. Ref ended up keeping Cishek thus making my chances of landing Perkins slimmer. Had I stood pat with the p-draft, I would've got Perkins. Trading down put that at risk and, sure enough, he was taken after 1.04. By the time 1.09 rolled around, it was take Casey Janssen or a guy with upside in Neftali Feliz.

2.02 - Avisail Garcia, 23, OF, CHW - Probably a *TAD* early for Mr. Garcia, but I didn't want to risk someone taking him in the 2nd round. He looks the part (6'4 230) and has an excellent excellent bat (.400+ BABIP in 2012-2013, and has been north of .300 his entire career):

Avisail Garcia - Fangraphs

He doesn't walk a ton, but at the same time there is a lot to dream on as far as fantasy baseball is concerned. If he continues to develop, he has the potential to be a Carlos Gonzalez type player for my team.

3.02 - Rick Porcello, 25, SP, DET - Its no secret that I have a man-crush on the guy. He has improved in every single season and has improved his strikeout rate as well. He’s striking out more than 7 batters per 9, walking fewer than 2 batters per 9 and has a groundball rate above 50%. From 2000-2012, here is the list of pitchers who have finished a season with that mix: Halladay (4x), Carpenter (3x), and Hamels (1x). In 2013, the pitchers on that list are Felix Hernandez, Doug Fister, and Rick Porcello. That's some good company. With the defensive additions Dombrowski has made, I anticipate some of those groundballs won't be hits like they were in 2013 (I'm talking about anything hit on the left side of the field), Porcello could be a fantasy star!

4.02 - Michael Pineda, 25 (could be 29 b/c he's Dominican), SP, NYY - Honestly, I was surprised/disappointed to see all of target pitchers had been selected! Do I reach on Ozuna? Do I stick with the plan and go Starting Pitching? I check the board, see Ozuna is ranked below 20 or so players that are still Free Agents, and figure he is probably safe for another round considering his high 200's ADP...so Starting Pitcher it is! But who?

At the time of this pick, Pineda was coming off of a really strong Spring Training start. His rookie year fastball was around 95mph and he hit 93 during that start. He was one of the higher ranked pitchers left on ESPN, so I just went with it. Hopefully, I'm rewarded for taking a flier on him.

5.02 - Marcell Ozuna, 23, OF, MIA - Underrated Power as his minor league numbers suggest he will be a 20/10+ type player. Excellent defensive range so he will continue to get playing time. If he was selected prior to 5.02, B.J. Upton was the other player in my queue.

6.02 - Nathan Eovaldi, 24, SP, MIA - Back to Back Marlins?!?! what am I thinking?!?! Probably a round too early, but considering I traded my 6.18 pick for Lucas Giolito, it was now or never for him...His fastball averaged 96.2 mph last year, the fastest of any pitcher with as many innings pitched in 2013. Pitching in spacious Miami, hopefully he ups that k/9 and maintains a solid ERA and WHIP.

8.02 - Derek Norris, 25, C, OAK - My first of two (2) draft faux-pas. I was working an overtime detail, added three names to the queue: Tyler Skaggs, Derek Norris, and Sergio Santos (in that order). I hit auto-select, didn't follow what was going on, and I get a text message from Dave (BH) stating "Norris?" I respond something along the lines of "yeah, he's on the list with Santos". I get a response along the lines of "lol", so I check and realize I took Norris over Santos. Considering 4 teams didn't have a Catcher yet, I figured Norris could float another round. Like the player, just not at Round 8. All in all, Platooning him with Jaso (he kills LHP, struggles vs RHP), I should hit Catcher minimum starts with a top 5 position player in the aggregate (I hope).

8.20 - Aaron Hicks, 24, OF, MIN - My second faux-pas. I was hoping to get Santos this round as I really didn't have a backup plan. Jaydog takes him at 14, I'm left trying to figure out where to go. Didn't really care for any of the hitters at 8.20, so I just went with someone young who has upside. Hate this pick because A) I have 4 Outfielders and B) he will break camp in AAA as Pressley is out of options where Hicks still has them. Ugh.

10.02 - Erasmo Ramirez, 23, SP, SEA - Post-hype sleeper. Hoping he can be a serviceable 5th starter for me and capture some of that magic that had him hyped last season. Was very close to selecting Phil Hughes and felt he would be there later where Erasmo would not.

10.18 - Yonder Alonso, 26, 1B, SD - This pick is the equivalent of a 3-wood off the tee on a par 4. This came down between he and LoMo. LoMo has the sick upside, but also a really low floor. Alonso really doesn't have upside, but doesn't have downside either. Before he got beaned, he was averaging 3 HR a month, will hit in the middle of the Padres lineup, and should be a safe bet for 15-18 HR with the potential for 100 RBI's. Safe, conservative, pick.

11.02 - Jordy Mercer, 27, 2B/SS, PIT - After selecting Erasmo, I wanted this guy on my squad to provide adequate depth to help get the stats for 2B and SS on off days. Little known fact is he MASHED LHP to a tune of 1.152 OPS in 89 plate appearances last year. If a LHP is starting vs. Pittsburgh, he might find his way into my lineup.

12.08 - Jesse Chavez, 30, SP, OAK - Really wanted Hughes here...was disappointed to see him selected by GO...that was the only reason I traded with BMD was for Hughes. Went with Chavez as he was fixing to be the 5th starter, added a cut fastball to his repertoire and has been impressive this spring training (16 2/3 IP), 16k, 2 ER.

12.09 - Drew Pomeranz, 25, SP, OAK - Top prospect who fell on hard times in Colorado. Call it a hunch, but Oakland has a way of turning around pitchers.

13.14 - John Jaso, 30, C, OAK - DH for Oakland, gets on base, and will hit when Norris is facing RHP. Good platoon split.

PICKS I LOVE

These are picks that stick out as great fits and represent value over some of the others...

1.13 - Aramis Ramirez, 3B, R9 - Still effective and should stabilize R9's bottom line.

1.15 - Mike Napooli, 1B, YR - How did he last this long?

1.20 - Matt Wieters, C, Pete - Was considering him at 1.09...while he may never put up Posey levels, he is still a guy who can put up a line of .320/23/75/75 like clockwork.

2.04 - Lance Lynn, P, Guru - Will be solid again and outperform some keepers

3.01 - Francisco Liriano, SP, REF - Wow, what a steal.

3.08 - Kole Calhoun, OF, BMD - Has the pedigree to be a solid player...plus will be in a really good lineup.

3.10 - A.J. Burnett, SP, BMD - The phillies might be terrible this year, but Burnett has always been solid and strikes out a ton of batters.

3.14 - Brett Gardner, OF, JD - Top 100 player who will put up keeper like numbers.

4.06 - Alex Wood, SP, Darkside - Ugh. Wish I went with him over Pineda. I bought the sizzle, not the steak.

4.18 - B.J. Upton, OF, BH - Has to justify that contract...right?

4.20 - Ervin Santana, SP, WG - I was talking to Amit (WG) when he made the pick. More about the rumor that Atlanta could sign him with Medlen going down and Minor ailing. Needless to say, Home Run because he will go to a pitchers park, will play in Miami and cavernous Citi Field.

5.07 - Mark Melancon, RP, MJD - Good hedge, will eat innings and provide solid ratios.

5.11 - Dillon Gee, SP, Tosh - Loved him and Niese in this round. Just solid players who outperform their draft positions.

5.19 - Kyle Lohse, SP, REF - Lohse won't ever be an elite fantasy option, but he doesn't hurt ERA / WHIP and will help Ref stay atop the standings.

6.17 - Ike Davis, 1B, GO - He can't be that bad again, can he?

7.13 - Brandon Morrow, SP, R9 - The talent is there, will he stay healthy?

8.01 - Tyler Skaggs, SP, Species - Sooooo close to owning him again. He will be much better in Spacious LAA.

8.18 - Nick Franklin, 2B, BH - 15/15 type player with middle infield eligiblity

9.08 - Dustin Ackley, 2B/OF, BMD - Great value here. After he got demoted and came back up...he really raked the ball. If he can continue where he left off, thats a top 10 2B.

10.01 - Mike Leake, SP, Species - Not a ton of K/9 upside, but entering a contract season and is only 26 years old. A lot to like.

10.10 - Trevor Cahill, SP, GL - Not a huge Cahill fan...but the second starter on the Diamondbacks. Can get an early jump on the season with pitching.

11.01 - Grady Sizemore, OF, Species - Given his hot spring, if he can get any production from an 11th rounder...its good value.

11.17 - Phil Hughes, SP, GO - Hughes should be around 8k/9 and is an extreme fly ball pitcher. He played in the worst park for that. He now goes to the best park for flyball pitchers. Win for Hughes. Win for GO. Easy sub 4.00 ERA.

12.03 - Darin Ruf, 1B/OF, Pete - If it wasn't for Amaro, he would get the everyday AB. I would've taken him over Alonso but know hes getting sent to AAA in favor of Mayberry, Jr. and Abreu because they do not have options left. Ladies and Gentlement, your 2014 Philadelphia Phillies! If he got the everyday AB, he will easily hit 30 HR.

Forum: basePage 20248Subject: Gurupie 20 2014 Pre-Season Discussion

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Page 20248
Subject: Gurupie 20 2014 Pre-Season Discussion