Self Editor

Forum: base
Page 20449
Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2018 Preseason Discussion

Posted by: Species - SuperDude [07724916] Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 10:36

Constitution
Prospects - 300AB 110_IP/40_GP to remain a prospect.

(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08; 15-17, '09; 18-20, '10; 21-23, '11; 24-26, '12; 27-29 '13; 30-32 '14; 33-35 '15; 36-38 '16; 39-41 -17)
MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups)
Bean: 34.09 Nick Gordon, SS, MIN; 39.11 Jharel Cotton, SP, Oak (1); 40.07 Brent Honeywell, SP, TB
bmd: 36.12 Ryan McMahon, 3b, COL; 39.03 Vladimir Guerrero Jr, 3b, TOR; 40.01 Riley Pint, SP, COL; 40.08 Will Craig, 3b, PIT
Blue Hen: 39.06 Zack Collins, C, CHW; 39.17 Jason Groome, SP, BOS 41.02 Adrian Morejon, SP, SD
Darkside: 37.11 Ozhaino Albies, SS, Atl; 39.05 Hunter Renfroe, OF, SD; 44.03 Reynaldo Lopez, SP, CHW
Great One: 33.01 Yoan Moncada, 2b, CHW (1); Rafael Devers, 3b, BOS; 40.04 Kyle Lewis, OF, SEA
Guru: 39.18 Francisco Mejia, C, CLE; 40.11 Jake Bauers, OF, TB
Fosten: 31.08 Austin Meadows, OF, PIT; 36.09 Bradley Zimmer, OF, CLE
Judy: 37.03 Roman Quinn, OF, PHI; 39.01 Mickey Moniak, OF, PHI; 40.02 Alex Verdugo, OF, LAD
Khahan: 37.14 Dominic Smith NYM; 36.20 Sean Newcomb, SP, ATL (1);
Meatwads: 36.17 Victor Robles, OF, WAS; 36.11 Franklin Barreto, SS, OAK; 36.05 Anderson Espinoza, SP SD; 39.04 Nick Senzel, 3b, CIN; TB; 40.06 Juan Soto, OF, WAS;
mjd: 36.08 Jorge Mateo, SS, OAK; 36.15 Brady Aiken, SP, CLE; 39.02 Kevin Maitan, SS, ATL; 40.12 AJ Puk, SP, Oak
Nerfherders: 30.07 Clint Frazier, OF, NYY; Kolby Allard, SP, ATL
Slizz: 39.13 Ronald Acuna, OF, ATL
Species:
Thumper: 32.03 JP Crawford, SS, PHI; 36.01 Brendan Rodgers, SS, COL; 39.10 Kyle Tucker, OF, HOU
Tree: 36.19 Gleyber Torres, SS, NYY; 39.08 Michael Kopech, SP, CWS; 39.16 Blake Rutherford, OF, OAK; 39.20 Tyler O'Neill, OF, SEA; 40.05 Isan Diaz, 2b, MIL; 40.13 Chance Sisco, C, BAL
ttucowboy: 37.05 Bobby Bradley, 1b, CLE; 39.12 Yadier Alvarez, SP, LAD; 39.19 Corey Ray, OF, MIL
Tosh: 37.12 Anthony Alford, OF, TOR; 40.10 Josh Hader, SP, MIL
wg: Willy Adames, SS, TB; 40.09 Delvin Perez, SS, StL
youngroman: 36.13 Shohei Otani, SP, Hokkaido; 37.10 Cody Reed, SP, CIN; 39.15 Luis Robert Moiran, OF, Cuba

These managers have had their 2018 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-16 Great One receives WG's 5th for his 9th (Grichuk / P-Pick)
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 1st and 4th for his last 2 (Blackmon)
3-23-16 mjd receives WG's 7th for his 10th (Plouffe)
3-23-16 mjd receives Species' 6th for his 9th ('16 pick swap)
6-08-16 Great One receives Species' 5th for his 10th (R. Davis)
6-11-16 bmd receives ttucowboy's 6th for his 12th (Cingrani)
6-15-16 mjd receives WG's 6th for his 14th (Kang, Pearce)
7-20-16 Tree receives WG's 8th (Jones/Wainwright)
3-10-17 slizz receives mjd's 3rd for his 14th (Ray)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st for his 11th (2017 Supp Pick)
3-20-17 Tree receives Species' 1st for his 6th (2017 pick swap)
3-22-17 mjd receives a conditional 4th round pick from slizz (Heyward), contingent upon:
2018 4th round pick if Heyward fails to have 20 combined hr/sb
2018 3rd round pick if Heyward has 21-34 combined hr/sb
2018 2nd round pick if Heyward has 35+ combined hr/sb
3-24-17 bmd receives Fosten's 6th for his 10th (2017 pick swap)
3-24-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 14th (2017 pick swap)
4-02-17 bmd receives mjd's 3rd (via slizz) for his 8th (Treinen)
5-24-17 Guru receives a 3rd* from Species for his 14th (Oh)
*if S. Oh earns 30 or more saves in the 2017 season, this pick becomes a 2nd
5-24-17 Tree receives a 3rd from Species for his 12th (Wacha)
6-13-17 Tosh receives GO's 4th for his 12th (Trumbo)
7-21-17 GO receives WG's 3rd for his last (Severino, Shaw / CMart)
7-25-17 WG receives slizz' 7th for his 9th (Kinsler)
8-05-17 Fosten receives Thumper's 3rd for his 9th (Meadows, p-picks)

The following managers have had their 2018 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 2nd (Blackmon)
5-15-16 mjd receives Tosh's 1st (Tanaka)
1-14-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 1st (Darvish, etc)
3-13-17 Meatwads receives Species' 1st (Kimbrel)
3-13-17 Thumper receives blue hen's 1st (Archer/Kemp/Semien)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st (2017 1.03 supp)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 3rd (2017 1.12 supp)

These managers have had their 2019 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-17 Thumper receives WG's 1st (Desmond + Harvey / B. Rodgers)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-30-17 bmd receives Species' 7th and 9th for his 10th and 11th (2017 pick swaps)
5-21-17 Thumper receives WG's 8th for his 14th (Triggs, Wheeler / Altherr)

The following managers have had their 2019 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:

8-17-17 Thumper receives Fosten's 1st and 2nd round picks (Meadows)

Previous Champions
2003 (tie) Ref and StL Cards
2004 Ref
2005 Ref
2006 Beastiemiked
2007 Twarpy
2008 Ref
2009 Peter N
2010 Species
2011 (tie) Species and blue hen
2012 Toral
2013 Wazaaap Guy
2014 blue hen
2015 blue hen
2016 Species
2017 blue hen

Commissioner:
"Species" gmrobinson1@yahoo.com - "Tosh" lodnar@gmail.com - "Guru" (Treasurer) davehall@rotoguru2.com

Positions
C - 1 1B - 1 2B - 1 3B - 1 SS - 1 OF - 3 DH - 1 P - 6
Active - 15; Bench - 8; Total - 23; Must have active players on roster at each position

Returning Managers
As commissioners, we reserve the right NOT to extend an invitation to (or remove) any manager for any reason. Primary reason for being excluded would be abusive behavior, purposeful rules violations (ie colluding on a trade), inactivity (ie leaving injured/OUT players in as starters or not actively trying to improve your team), not participating in league business or repeated delays/unresponsive, or failure to pay your share of league fees. If an owner is removed or NOT invited back, a new owner will be recruited to take over the vacated team in its exact state. All monies will be forfeited.

Trade Policy
If there are 7 votes against the trade it will be sent to the commishs to be vetoed. There will be a min. of one full day to vote before the trade will be approved if the max objections are not reached. Everyone will be emailed by ESPN automatically as soon as the trade is accepted so they may review it. Make sure your email notifications are set up! Please check the site daily.

Trades involving draft picks/prospects will be listed in the trade and can also be posted on our leagues bulletin board and/or our thread at rotoguru.com. Note that off-season and pre-season (before draft is complete) trades will still be approved by the commishs.

Trades for draft picks - be they Supplemental or Prospect picks - may only be consummated within two drafts from the date of the trade. Example: in March 2015 before the Supplemental Draft, one can only trade either 2015 or 2016 picks. In June 2015, one could trade either 2016 or 2017 picks, etc.

Trade deadline - the trade deadline is the last day in August available in the ESPN website.

Minimums for GP and IP:

A team must accumulate a minimum of 1375 GP by hitters over the course of a season. For each 15 games of shortfall, a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-15 games of shortfall will receive one demerit, 16-30 will receive 2 demerits, etc.

A team must accumulate a minimum of 1200 IP over the course of a season. For every shortfall of 15 IP, a team is assigned one demerit. Demerits will be integer values only. Thus, a team with 1-15 IP of shortfall will receive one demerit, 16-30 will receive 2 demerits, etc.

GP and IP demerits will be combined for each team. However, the first two demerits will be forgiven.

If a team finishes “in the money” for prize pool purposes (ranked 1-6), then demerits will be ignored.

For lottery teams, the following penalties will be applied to every pick in the next year’s supplement draft:

If a team accumulates more than 10 demerits, then it will be removed from the lottery and assigned the 14th pick in all rounds (i.e., behind all lottery teams, but ahead of any prize pool teams.)

For teams with less than 10 demerits, that team is pushed forward one place in the supplemental draft rankings for each demerit. For example, if a team finishes in last place (20th) and has 5 demerits, then that team will be treated in the draft rankings as though it finished in 15th place (and the teams actually finishing in places 16-20 will each move down one place.)

If more than one lottery team has a demerit, then the lottery rankings will be successively applied starting with the worst finisher and then moving up to the next worst finisher, etc.

Keepers
There will be 9 players available to be kept heading into the season. You will have a deadline to post your keepers. You may change your keepers up until the deadline.

Players drafted in the Rule 4 draft the previous June are not eligible to be kept as keepers. This rule applies even if that player has played in the major leagues. All Rule 4 draftees must go through at least one Prospect Draft prior to being eligible as keepers.

2018 Prize Pool
There are 19 of 20 people in the prize pool @ $15 each. That means there is $285 to distribute. Teams are required to always be in it or out of it once they committed to it in 2005. These will be the payouts: 1st $110; 2nd 65; 3rd 45; 4th 30; 5th 20; 6th 15. If a non-participant places 1st-6th, his money will be reallocated so there is always a 100% payout. 1st-5th place will be moved up a spot in the prize money and the 6th place $15 will go to the treasury to help defray dues costs to all. Dues are used to pay for the league champion trophy and draft.

Supplemental and Prospect Draft Lotteries:
The lotteries for both the Supplemental and Prospect Drafts will be conducted within 30 days of the end of the previous season.

Timing of the Keeper Deadline, Prospect Draft and Supplemental Draft
Each March, as proposed by a Commissioner, the league hold the following events, in this order:

1) Keeper Deadline: all teams must designate their keepers. They may designate up to 9.
NOTE: At this time, once the Keeper Deadline has passed, managers may also call up prospects to their active roster. In this scenario, those prospects are separate from their 9 keepers.
ADDITIONALLY: Once the keeper deadline has passed, managers may exceed 9 or more players by trade.
2) Prospect Keeper Deadline: Managers designate their Prospect Keepers. They may designate up to 3.
3) Prospect draft picks are assigned and the Prospect Draft is commenced per our rules below.
4) The Supplemental Draft is completed.

Supplemental Draft, FA Pickups and Waivers
The Draft will be held prior to every season after Keepers are announced. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. The lottery for the following season will be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order of previous years finish and will not snake.

Players must be available in the ESPN player pool to be drafted or added during the season via FA or WW. No amateur player may be drafted or picked up via FA or WW if the player in question still has amateur status or is a prospect. Also, if a player is drafted in the June MLB draft, while he may be freely picked up and used on a roster, please note that per our keeper rules they may not be kept the following season. All Rule 4 draftees must go through one Prospect Draft before they become keeper eligible.

There is a 3 hour per draft pick time limit and a cumulative time limit of 12 hours. (Subject to change). You may not exceed 23 players. You may not drop a player (or add a non-drafted player if you are short) until waivers have been turned on. You may trade for extra picks and you may trade your excess picks as long as it is done before the preceeding pick has been made. If you make a duplicate pick, the draft will continue and you may correct that pick at any time. Once you have been skipped, you will continue to be skipped until you are caught up. If a clock runs out, the next person on the clock will be charged for any time before his pick. If you are skipped due to a pick or c clock, you may still post your selection at any time.

Waivers will begin the season in the same order as the supplemental draft. Lottery picks and traded draft picks will not be considered when determining the waiver order.

Prospect Rules:
The underlined key deadlines and procedures are completed in a linear fashion, one after the other.

Keeper Deadline:
At a time announced by the Commissioner, all managers must have no more than 3 keepers on their prospect list. This is the only point in time where teams must have 3 or fewer prospects.

Managers will announce what prospects they intend to keep on the prospect list, which prospects they are releasing, and (if applicable) which prospects they are calling up and releasing (see below).

All hitters must have less than 300 ABs and pitchers less than 110 IP or 40 GP to remain a prospect. Otherwise, they must be moved to your active roster or released. Managers must monitor their own prospects. If they are later to have found to be over the max. at that deadline, the player will be immediately removed as a prospect and put on waivers.

Owning another team's prospect pick has no bearing on the above.

Assignment of Prospect Picks:
After declaration of kept, released or called up prospects, Managers are assigned new prospect picks dependent upon how many prospects they kept - with the total sum of kept prospects and new picks of your own limited to a total of 3. Specifically:

- If you keep 3 prospects, you receive no new picks
- If you keep 2 prospects, you receive your 1st round prospect pick
- If you keep 1 prospect, you receive your 1st and 2nd round prospect picks
- If you keep no prospects, you receive your 1st, 2nd and 3rd round prospect picks

If an owner has traded away one of their prospect picks, they must reduce their kept prospects below three in order to comply with the terms of their trade. See "if you have traded away a pick", below.

Owning another team's prospect pick has no bearing on the above.

End of Keeper Deadline Activity:
Upon the completion of the keeper deadline and the assignment of picks, managers may then exceed three prospects by trade.

Processing of Traded Prospect Picks:
After the assignment of picks, the league will officially process all traded picks:
If you have traded away a pick: As noted above, any team that has traded away a pick must comply with the terms of their trade. This means that the number of prospects you are allowed to keep is reduced by the number of prospect picks you have traded away. As with any trade, if an owner trades away a pick in a round that they do not own, the receiving party receives a pick of a higher round to satisfy their trade.
If you have traded for a pick: Acquired picks are only used as picks in the Prospect Draft. The owning of another team's pick in no way alters the number of prospect keepers you may have, nor does it effect the assignment of your own prospect picks.

Prospect Draft:
The Prospect Draft will be held during the preseason after keepers are finalized (but before the Supplemental Draft). Drafts will be in inverse order of the final standings of the previous year and will not snake. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections. The lottery for the following season will be completed within 30 days of the end of regular season. Picks 4 - 20 and all picks in subsequent rounds will be in inverse order and will not snake. Players will be selected on our thread at rotoguru.com if possible. If that site is down, our draft will continue on the bulletin board of our page if we have knowledge of all picks selected previously. Ties will be broken by a dice roll. There will be up to 3 rounds.

A draft-eligible prospect is defined as a hitter that has less than 150 Major League at bats or a pitcher with less than both 55 Major League innings pitched and 20 Major League games pitched. Further, to be eligible, the player must be a professional baseball player, defined as one of the following:

- Under contract with a MLB teams system. This does not require them to have been assigned to a minor league team at the time of the draft.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Japans Nippon Professional Baseball (NPB) league.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Koreas Korean Baseball Organization (KBO) league.
- A professional player playing in/having played in Cuba's top professional league, the Serie Nacional.

Amateur players in High School, College or otherwise subject to the Rule 4 draft are not eligible.

There will be a 3 hour per pick clock and a 4 hour cumulative clock to draft. If you are skipped, you may make your selection at any time. Time will not accrue from midnight to 8 am ET, though anyone may select during that time if their pick is up. Once the draft concludes, the only way to add a prospect is via trade or future drafts. After the draft, you may bring this player on your active roster at any time (as long as hes in the ESPN database) by dropping a player.

Prospect callup rules: Managers may call-up and then send down their prospect up to two times without losing their rights as a prospect as long as that player has not hit the maximum ABs/IP/GP threshold. Once a commish allows the call-up, he will add the number of times that player has been called-up next to his name in the Prospect List below. At the end of the season, all prospects on the roster will be considered optioned so they wont have to be counted as a keeper so long as they have not hit their threshold. Before a commish will option or send-down a prospect, he will look at the stats for that player including games played that day if the lineup freeze has passed. If a prospect is renounced or hits his threshold while on your roster (called up), his name will be removed from your prospect list.

Alphabetical list of Prospects:

Ronald Acuna
Willy Adames
Brady Aiken
Ozhaino Albies
Anthony Alford
Kolby Allard
Yadier Alvarez
Franklin Barreto
Jake Bauers
Bobby Bradley
Zack Collins
Jharel Cotton
Will Craig
JP Crawford
Rafael Devers
Isan Diaz
Anderson Espinoza
Clint Frazier
Nick Gordon
Jason Groome
Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
Josh Hader
Brent Honeywell
Michael Kopech
Kyle Lewis
Reynaldo Lopez
Kevin Maitan
Jorge Mateo
Ryan McMahon
Austin Meadows
Francisco Mejia
Yoan Moncada
Mickey Moniak
Adrian Morejon
Sean Newcomb
Tyler O'Neill
Shohei Otani
Delvin Perez
Riley Pint
AJ Puk
Roman Quinn
Corey Ray
Cody Reed
Hunter Renfroe
Luis Robert Moiran
Victor Robles
Brendan Rodgers
Blake Rutherford
Nick Senzel
Chance Sisco
Dominic Smith
Juan Soto
Gleyber Torres
Kyle Tucker
Alex Verdugo
Bradley Zimmer

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 10:51

Welcome to the 2018 Gurupie 20 Baseball Season! Pitchers and catchers are reporting in less than 2 weeks, the Super Bowl is in 2 days, so it is time to get moving for another hard hitting, trade frenzied season of G20 Baseball!

First order of business -- please declare your intention on returning for this season.

I have some auditing to do of my draft grid (slizz), so please review the draft grids for accuracy and bring any discrepancies to my attention ASAP.

We have some teams rising this year -- will they pull the trigger on those franchise-altering deals? Will the old stalwarts cash in some chips and rebuild? Or reload??

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 10:57

In like Flynn.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:26

269 slizz
ID: 310522313
Tue, Jan 23, 2018, 14:52 Couple minor corrections to the chart:

I would have picks 9.14 and picks 9.18 (post 259)

I made the deal with mjd with the understanding that I would get his last available pick for Heyward (post 259). Going forward, I will make a better effort to clarify when making future deals!
==============================

I confirm that I incorrectly assigned 9.14. I have put that back to slizz.

I have added the mjd last pick to slizz as well.

I have refreshed the draft grids with these changes above as well as with the jacked up lottery results. Guru will post at his convenience.

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:09

I should have 1.03 and 1.08 in the supp draft and not 1.10. PeterN won the 3rd pick in the supp draft. I owned that pick. My balls did not win and should be slotted at 1.08.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:16

6: You are correct. Thank you. I have updated my grid. I will wait for more trades before we re-post.

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:28

I'm in obviously.

Judy
ID: 35493114
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 12:37

I am IN and hoping that my young ‘uns produce a heck of a lot better for me this season. Everyone slumped...
Sheesh.

Bean
ID: 304422310
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 13:02

I am in

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 13:42

I’m in!

darkside
ID: 2822316
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 14:08

I won the lottery...how could I not be in?!? Mark it, dude.

Re: Hunter Renfroe...I need to look at my team to see who I would drop and can’t do it from the phone. I’ll update on that when I have a chance. Thanks, Species!

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 14:27

I had an email asking everyone to post their intentions. My intention is to win this damn thing!

Meatwads
ID: 43056268
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 14:28

I'm in! Looking forward to another season of great competition.

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 15:23

Jason Groome and I are in.

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 16:30

I'm in.

ttucowboy
ID: 8550318
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 16:33

GO
ID: 565491620
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 21:58

I'll be Bach

Domingo, Javy Baez, Dahl available for pitching.

darkside
ID: 81492120
Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 22:20

I was assuming it was an app issue, but when I go to the site it's down for maintenance. Is there a way for us to see our rosters?

Nerfherders
ID: 2211442615
Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 18:39

In.

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Sun, Feb 04, 2018, 18:14

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 12:26

21: Looks like they are launching 2018 Baseball soon. The site should be down for a week or so.

Bean asked in the other thread what the protocol is. The wording of the rule is vague, and for the life of me I cannot find the usual "all prospects over the limit are automatically called up to your roster at the end of the season" rule (WTF).

Technically I would say you do not HAVE to transact on Renfroe and Cotton until the keeper deadline. However, if either of you have ANY intention of keeping them in your 9 (or trading them to someone else), it would greatly benefit the league to go ahead and designate a cut from your roster so these 2 can be added to your teams.

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 14:45

<24> Honestly, I am at a complete loss to understand the urgency here. I don't even have access to my final roster from last season. So, I simply cannot comply.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 05, 2018, 16:40

25: I don't mean to suggest you do so at this moment (and we can't without access to the league site anyway). However, once we have access, what I am saying is that those two prospects are no longer prospects by our rules. They would have to be kept in your 9 keepers for you to retain any rights.

It would benefit the league to know that you own the right to keep them in your 9......perhaps other teams would be interested in them via trade. Or, if you plan on keeping them, they would have to be added to your roster anyway (and you are at the roster limit currently) to be able to mark them as keepers.

slizz
ID: 310522313
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 11:19

Team Acuna is in!

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 11:28

In:
Fosten
Species
Guru
bmd
judy
Bean
darkside
Khahan
Meatwads
Thumper
blue hen
youngroman
ttucowboy
Nerfherders
Great One
slizz
Tosh

Undeclared
mjd (although he recently posted after the lottery)
Tree
WG

Bean
ID: 304422310
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 14:16

Any dates for big events...keeper designation, start of draft etc?

Tree
ID: 77532019
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 17:05

sorry. i'm definitely in. i figured my post lamenting the screwjob of a lottery was sufficient. :D

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 17:24

29: Last year the season started April 2nd. This year Opening Day is March 28th - like 4 days earlier.

Last year keepers were due March 13th. We may have to start the process on Friday March 9th to make absolutely sure we get through everything. Our other option is Monday March 12th, but that is cutting it close.

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 17:26

More on Luiz Gohara. Came it at #7 on ZIPS prospect list, the highest rated pitcher

It might be a little weird to think of Gohara as the best pitching prospect in baseball, and he probably doesn't have quite as high a ceiling as some other top pitching prospects -- though his is high -- but he also has already survived the minor league meat grinder that led Baseball Prospectus to coin the term TINSTAAPP (There is No Such Thing as a Pitching Prospect) 20 years ago. ZiPS projects Gohara as the safest, most result-friendly pitcher in the minors, and in his five MLB starts he held opposing teams to a FIP of just 2.75. ZiPS already thinks Gohara is the best starting pitcher on the Braves.

Looking to package him with Gerrit Cole and/or Elvis Andrus and/or Yasiel Puig for the best player I can get.

Bmd
ID: 825715
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 21:11

I'd rather start as late as possible with a shorter time clock. Just my opinion.

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 23:59

Meatwads
ID: 852443-4
Thu, Feb 08, 2018, 22:56

TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Species trades :
Dee Gordon, 2B, Mariners
Edwin Encarnacion, 1B, Indians
Nelson Cruz, OF, Mariners
2.19 s-pick (2018)
4.19 s-pick (2018)
12th s-pick (2019)

Meatwads trades :
Victor Robles, OF, Nationals
Nick Senzel, 3B, Reds
1.19 p-pick (2018)
3.07 s-pick (2018)
12.07 s-pick (2018)
4th s-pick (2019)

Shots fired! :) Species to confirm.

Species
ID: 46252312
Thu, Feb 08, 2018, 22:57

Confirmed!!! Yowza!!

slizz
ID: 310522313
Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 13:28

I'm open to dealing Ronald Acuna post keeper deadline.

Inquire via text or email.

slizz
ID: 310522313
Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 16:40

TRADE ANNOUNCEMENT

Slizz Acquires
(P) Yoan Moncada, 2B, CHW
2018 5.09 via GO
2019 GO last rd supplemental pick

GO Acquires
(P) Brendan Rodgers, SS, COL
Jose Quintana, P, CHC via Thumqer
Alex Wood, P, LAD via Thumqer
2019 3rd rd pick via thumqer
2019 4th rd pick via slizz

Thumper Acquires
(P) Ronald Acuna, OF, ATL via slizz
Sean Manaea, P, OAK via slizz
2018 GO 1st rd p pick
2019 GO second to last rd supplemental pick

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 16:47

We see your Blockbuster and we raise you another!

The 2019 picks going to GO are in the supplemental draft. Confirmed.

GO
ID: 14143919
Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 21:08

Confirmed.

Anyone looking for long term SS solution, Xander is available. Also Domingo and Wood in a package.

Tree
ID: 77532019
Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 11:19

lesson learned. make sure i have my off-seasons roster stored somewhere other than the ESPN site.

ugh. finally sit down to get started on the season, and can't do squat. yay.

Judy
ID: 35493114
Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 17:55

Any idea when espn will be up? Want to look at roster.

Anyone want prospect Quinn, PHL OF?

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 17:55

Judy - I would guess it will be another week. Perhaps starting the weekend......but it always surprises me how long they take to get everything settled for the new season.

Great trades! Teams stepping up to set their claim on contention!!

I have options on a couple of last keeper spots, so if anyone is interested in a post-keeper trade, I have assets like:

Alex Claudio - Texas closer
Johnny Cueto - over his blisters and set to report to camp on time this year (delayed last year due to the death of his father)
Michael Taylor - WAS CF who nearly had a 20/20 season last year

Or, I could acquire an asset you want and trade it to you post-keepers as well. Lots of options!!

mjd
ID: 38914216
Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 17:29

In

I'm interested in a keeper upgrade for anyone with too many.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 17:46

Technically mjd has yet to confirm his participation this year. However, he did post on January 25th about a pick swap. I am sure he is just not quite in full baseball mode yet. That said, I have emailed and texted him to make it official.

-------------------

We also need to again consider when to start the league calendar. We most commonly start on a Monday, but if we do that, we are only starting 1 day earlier than last year........and the season starts 4 days earlier this year.

bmd suggested starting as late as possible......but I am hesitant to risk running out of time. We could have a timeline like this:

Keepers due Monday March 12th
Prospect keepers due Tuesday March 13th
Prospect draft Wednesday March 14th
Supplemental draft opens 17th
Supplemental draft clock starts March 19th

However, last year we did NOT finish the supplemental draft until March 28th - which is the start of the 2018 season. That makes this timetable untenable.

Proposed 2018 G20 Preseason Schedule:

- Keepers due Thursday March 8th
- Prospect keepers due Friday March 9th
- Prospect draft starts Saturday March 10th
- Supplemental draft opens Monday March 12th
- Supplemental draft clock starts Tuesday March 13th

Concerns/comments welcomed.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 19:47

Ok, so mjd is in. Yay! All 20 teams confirmed.

Pitchers and catchers are reporting! Once ESPN finishes off their prep work, we can REALLY get down to business! Can't wait.

Please give the timing of our deadlines (post 47) some thought and weigh in. Thanks.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 10:22

Great news for youngroman -- ESPN has clarified their Shohei Ohtani roster rules. Common sense rules, apparently! So glad to see them apply the most reasonable course of action.

=========================

"So here's your answer to the winter's most pressing question: In ESPN leagues, Ohtani will serve as one player -- just as he will be for his Angels -- with the ability to be started as either a hitter or pitcher.

Mind that key word, "or," as in either hitter or pitcher, but not both. Ohtani will begin the 2018 season with dual eligibility, as a designated hitter on the hitting side and starting pitcher on the pitching side, and in each individual scoring period in your league, you will need to make a decision as to on which side to use him.

This means that in leagues with daily transactions, as is the ESPN standard, on any given day Ohtani can serve as either your starting pitcher or your designated hitter/utility. He'll accrue statistics only for the role in which you choose, meaning that on days where you have him activated as a starting pitcher, he'll receive credit only for his pitching statistics, and on days where you have him activated as a DH/utility, he'll receive credit only for his hitting statistics."

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 15:19

Re <47>, I think it would be a good idea to start things earlier as proposed. I’m also overly excited for baseball season and might be ignoring any issues with that so take my opinion lightly.

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Wed, Feb 14, 2018, 16:03

I'm fine with the proposed schedule in 47.

Meatwads
ID: 852443-4
Thu, Feb 15, 2018, 08:34

<47> I suppose I prefer the latest date possible to ensure everyone has enough time to research and trade. I'm also fine with shortening the clock an hour or two. Ultimately whatever the league decides, I'll be there with my giant jug of ice water, wearing a onesie.

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Thu, Feb 15, 2018, 10:37

now Ohtani has to prove that he can really hit in the majors. but first he needs to show that he is a pitching ace.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Feb 15, 2018, 13:44

53: At WORST, Ohtani is better than a waiver wire stream replacement --- so he is a guaranteed stream on days he doesn't pitch. What a weapon in a deep league such as this one.

ttucowboy
ID: 8550318
Fri, Feb 16, 2018, 10:18

Timeline in post 47 works for me.

mjd
ID: 38914216
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 11:42

I prefer to draft as late as possible, which has been a long time feature of this league.

darkside
ID: 81492120
Sat, Feb 17, 2018, 19:47

I'm good w/ post 47 timing. Thanks for running the league, Species!

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 17:55

Hopefully all of this is correct:

Constitution
Prospects - 300AB 110_IP/40_GP to remain a prospect.

(Draft Rounds 1-3, '04; 4-5, '05; 6-8, '06; 9-11, '07; 12-14, '08; 15-17, '09; 18-20, '10; 21-23, '11; 24-26, '12; 27-29 '13; 30-32 '14; 33-35 '15; 36-38 '16; 39-41 -17)
MGR: #, Name,Pos,Team,(# Call-ups)
Bean: 34.09 Nick Gordon, SS, MIN; 39.11 Jharel Cotton, SP, Oak (1); 40.07 Brent Honeywell, SP, TB
bmd: 36.12 Ryan McMahon, 3b, COL; 39.03 Vladimir Guerrero Jr, 3b, TOR; 40.01 Riley Pint, SP, COL; 40.08 Will Craig, 3b, PIT
Blue Hen: 39.06 Zack Collins, C, CHW; 39.17 Jason Groome, SP, BOS 41.02 Adrian Morejon, SP, SD
Darkside: 37.11 Ozhaino Albies, SS, Atl; 39.05 Hunter Renfroe, OF, SD; 44.03 Reynaldo Lopez, SP, CHW
Great One: 36.01 Brendan Rodgers, SS, COL; Rafael Devers, 3b, BOS; 40.04 Kyle Lewis, OF, SEA
Guru: 39.18 Francisco Mejia, C, CLE; 40.11 Jake Bauers, OF, TB
Fosten: 31.08 Austin Meadows, OF, PIT; 36.09 Bradley Zimmer, OF, CLE
Judy: 37.03 Roman Quinn, OF, PHI; 39.01 Mickey Moniak, OF, PHI; 40.02 Alex Verdugo, OF, LAD
Khahan: 37.14 Dominic Smith NYM; 36.20 Sean Newcomb, SP, ATL (1);
Meatwads: 36.11 Franklin Barreto, SS, OAK; 36.05 Anderson Espinoza, SP SD; TB; 40.06 Juan Soto, OF, WAS;
mjd: 36.08 Jorge Mateo, SS, OAK; 36.15 Brady Aiken, SP, CLE; 39.02 Kevin Maitan, SS, ATL; 40.12 AJ Puk, SP, Oak
Nerfherders: 30.07 Clint Frazier, OF, NYY; Kolby Allard, SP, ATL
Slizz: 33.01 Yoan Moncada, 2b, CHW (1);
Species: 36.17 Victor Robles, OF, WAS; 39.04 Nick Senzel, 3b, CIN;
Thumper: 32.03 JP Crawford, SS, PHI; 39.10 Kyle Tucker, OF, HOU; 39.13 Ronald Acuna, OF, ATL
Tree: 36.19 Gleyber Torres, SS, NYY; 39.08 Michael Kopech, SP, CWS; 39.16 Blake Rutherford, OF, OAK; 39.20 Tyler O'Neill, OF, SEA; 40.05 Isan Diaz, 2b, MIL; 40.13 Chance Sisco, C, BAL
ttucowboy: 37.05 Bobby Bradley, 1b, CLE; 39.12 Yadier Alvarez, SP, LAD; 39.19 Corey Ray, OF, MIL
Tosh: 37.12 Anthony Alford, OF, TOR; 40.10 Josh Hader, SP, MIL
wg: Willy Adames, SS, TB; 40.09 Delvin Perez, SS, StL
youngroman: 36.13 Shohei Otani, SP, Hokkaido; 37.10 Cody Reed, SP, CIN; 39.15 Luis Robert Moiran, OF, Cuba

These managers have had their 2018 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-16 Great One receives WG's 5th for his 9th (Grichuk / P-Pick)
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 1st and 4th for his last 2 (Blackmon)
3-23-16 mjd receives WG's 7th for his 10th (Plouffe)
3-23-16 mjd receives Species' 6th for his 9th ('16 pick swap)
6-08-16 Great One receives Species' 5th for his 10th (R. Davis)
6-11-16 bmd receives ttucowboy's 6th for his 12th (Cingrani)
6-15-16 mjd receives WG's 6th for his 14th (Kang, Pearce)
7-20-16 Tree receives WG's 8th (Jones/Wainwright)
3-10-17 slizz receives mjd's 3rd for his 14th (Ray)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st for his 11th (2017 Supp Pick)
3-20-17 Tree receives Species' 1st for his 6th (2017 pick swap)
3-22-17 mjd receives slizz' 4th for his last (Heyward)
3-24-17 bmd receives Fosten's 6th for his 10th (2017 pick swap)
3-24-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 14th (2017 pick swap)
4-02-17 bmd receives mjd's 3rd (via slizz) for his 8th (Treinen)
5-24-17 Guru receives a 3rd from Species for his 14th (Oh)
5-24-17 Tree receives a 3rd from Species for his 12th (Wacha)
6-13-17 Tosh receives GO's 4th for his 12th (Trumbo)
7-21-17 GO receives WG's 3rd for his last (Severino, Shaw / CMart)
7-25-17 WG receives slizz' 7th for his 9th (Kinsler)
8-05-17 Fosten receives Thumper's 3rd for his 9th (Meadows, p-picks)
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 2.19 for his 3.07 (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 4th for his 12th (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 slizz receives GO's 5.09 (Moncada/Acuna/Rodgers/picks)

The following managers have had their 2018 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 2nd (Blackmon)
5-15-16 mjd receives Tosh's 1st (Tanaka)
1-14-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 1st (Darvish, etc)
3-13-17 Meatwads receives Species' 1st (Kimbrel)
3-13-17 Thumper receives blue hen's 1st (Archer/Kemp/Semien)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st (2017 1.03 supp)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 3rd (2017 1.12 supp)
2-08-18 Species receives his own 1st back (via Meatwads - Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 Thumper receives GO's 1st (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)

These managers have had their 2019 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-17 Thumper receives WG's 1st (Desmond + Harvey / B. Rodgers)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-30-17 bmd receives Species' 7th and 9th for his 10th and 11th (2017 pick swaps)
5-21-17 Thumper receives WG's 8th for his 14th (Triggs, Wheeler / Altherr)
2-08-18 Species receives Meatwads' 4th for his 12th (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 GO receives slizz' 4th for his last pick (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)
2-09-18 GO receives Thumpers 3rd for his second to last pick (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)

darkside
ID: 81492120
Wed, Feb 21, 2018, 21:46

Sorry it took me a while to decide on Renfroe. I'll call him up and drop Alex Gordon in his place. Should I do that?

Also, I'll be sending Ozzie Albies down, but I'll reiterate that when we set things up for the prospect draft.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 13:54

59: It makes more sense for me to just drop Ozzie and pick up Renfroe.....which is what I have done.

bh / Thumper - details on Walker Beuhler trade please??

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 14:27

Buehler was for Groom (p) - no picks involved.

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 14:32

Commercial

Still looking to trade four players, all easily within the top 180 players in baseball, meaning they should be kept. In addition, none of these guys has never not been kept in G20, except for Lester's missed season 10 years ago.
- Miguel Cabrera
- Yasiel Puig
- Jon Lester
- Gerrit Cole

Let me know if one of those guys piques your interest. Looking for prospect picks and supp picks, or upgrading the rest of my keepers.

Also looking for a deal where I give you prospect picks or supp picks, post keeper-deadline, in exchange for a SP or RP. Let's lock it up now.

Tree
ID: 77532019
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 14:54

among players that i may be interested in moving:

Salvador Perez, KC C, DH
Asdrubal Cabrera, NYM SS, 2B, 3B
Ryon Healy, Sea 3B, 1B, DH
Adam Jones, Bal OF
Brandon Drury, Ari 3B, 2B, OF
Jurickson Profar, Tex 3B, OF (sigh. sorry buddy)
AJ Reed, Hou 1B (remember that time i struggled between you and Bregman? ugh)
Welington Castillo, CWS C
Gio Gonzalez, Wsh SP

and possibly prospects Diaz, Rutherford, and O'Neil.

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 19:19

Post 5 showed pick 02.19 as TREE?? I've been sleuthing out why. Do I have this right??

3-20-17 Tree receives Species' 1st
5-24-17 Guru receives a 3rd from Species
5-24-17 Tree receives a 3rd from Species
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 2.19 for his 3.07

Does pick 3.07 now go to Tree, to fulfill the 05/24/17 trade?

darkside
ID: 81492120
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 21:32

Thanks, Species.

Khahan
ID: 367431722
Thu, Feb 22, 2018, 22:16

My own keeper list is shaping up like this:

Josh Bell
Brian Dozier
Alex Bregman
Andrew McCutchen
Marcell Ozuna
Corey Knebel
Stephen Strasburg
Aaron Nola
Dallas Keuchel/Michael Conforto (I can only keep 1 of these 2, I'd prefer to keep Keuchel I think)

I've also got the .350+OBP 30HR Mark Reynolds. The dual eligible C/2nd Austin Barnes and one of the top 1st base prospects in the minors Dominic Smith.

slizz
ID: 310522313
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 04:57

TRADE COMMERCIAL

Keeps:

1B - Hosmer
3B - Rendon
SS - Correa
OF - Buxton
OF - Mazara
OF - Polanco
SP - Kershaw
SP - Price
RP - Hand

2B - Moncada (p) / "10th keep"

Leftovers worth considering:

Yasmani Grandal, C, LA - Cockroft #168 & Dynasty Guru #96 keeper. Take it for what it's worth.
Austin Hays, OF, BAL - Yes, he's prospect eligible...that said, this is a solid buying opportunity as he's Baltimores opening day RF. Only looking for a mid-rd pick for someone who is a top 25 prospect.
Wade Davis, RP, COL - Rockies Closer

Tree
ID: 77532019
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 11:34

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 12:16

Just to further clutter the issue, is there any reason why I get pick 3.19 but someone else gets 3.07? Is that up to the trader (Species) to decide?

As I understand it, Species traded away two 3rd round picks. (The pick traded to me was conditional - would have been a second rounder if Oh had gotten more saves). He now has acquired a second 3rd round pick to satisfy the two trades. If this is so, then why am I offered the later pick?

I suspect the rules are silent on this. But another option would be to allocate those picks by random draw.

slizz
ID: 310522313
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 12:41

Guru - it is my interpretation that tree should get whatever pick species has (3.19) and you should get the pick he acquired (3.07).

5/24 - Species traded his 3rd for Wacha without a condition therefore locking him into pick 3.19.

10/1 - Oh's condition was not satisfied until the end of the season. Since Species did not have a 3rd to give, you would then be entitled to his 2nd rd pick. Once he acquired 3.07 via Meatwads that would be your pick.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 12:50

64, 68 and 69:

I tried to address this in the old thread while I was reconciling some trades from last year. Items like this happen, particularly with trades contingent upon a player hitting production thresholds.

Specific to Guru / Post 69: The practice that I have always used when it comes to traded picks is that I process them in a linear fashion, starting with the earliest trade and working from there. If I trade my 3rd in March and subsequently trade another 3rd in July (normally by oversight), the team receiving my 3rd in March gets "my" 3rd from the get-go (which could be low or high - obviously just depends on the success of that team in that year). If I do not have or acquire another 3rd to satisfy my trade in July, the default procedure was to satisfy the trade with a pick that was higher.

In the case of my 3rd, it was by happenstance that I consummated the two trades on the same day. I quite purposefully traded my 3rd twice, with the assumption that Oh would get the requisite saves to qualify Guru's pick to then be a 2nd, and thus avoiding any conflict. But that did not happen.

So, Tosh is correct in Post 64. I purposefully traded down to 3.07 so I would then have a 3rd to satisfy my trade with Tree. As Guru notes, the rules do not outline a specific way to prioritize or handle these cases. But I can say with great confidence that I handle each one exactly the same, and who benefits is merely the luck of the draw.

(Technically I can still trade down from 3.07 to as low as 3.20 and still satisfy my trade with Tree)

======================================

So, this does magnify the ambiguity of the rules. Most of the time managers are careful and pay attention to their traded picks.....but in the heat of the moment in negotiations, sometimes we just miss it and make these types of mistakes.

Here are the practices I have always applied to traded picks (applied both to S-draft and P-draft):

- If no specific pick number or original team that owned the pick (i.e. "Guru's 5th") is provided, the assumption is that parties are trading their own pick in that round.
- Teams that own multiple picks in a round can specify which pick is being traded in a trade. This can be done by noting the specific team's pick that is traded (i.e. "Tosh's 3rd") or you can designate the lowest or highest pick in that round.
- If a team does not own the pick in the specific round, the pick defaults to the next highest round available.
- Trades are processed in a linear fashion, with the earliest trades processed first.
- Managers can simply stated "their last pick" or "second to last pick" (we have some of these currently) and they will be processed as such.
- Managers may acquire from other teams the pick(s) needed to satisfy a trade.

Honestly Guru, in my opinion we do not need to make these trades more complicated by flipping coins or offering choices to teams as to which pick they got. Using our Oh trade as an example, at the moment we made that trade, you would have been assuming that the pick you were getting from me was MY 3rd (or 2nd) round pick......I was obviously in contention so you knew you were buying a pick towards the bottom of that round. In this case, yes, Tree is currently benefiting a bit out of happenstance.....but I do not think there is some massive flaw in the league by not having a more detailed rule to account for it. Fair??

.....but these are just my practices, including those that were used by Ref since inception. It is our league, so if we want to make some changes, we can. Please discuss, offer opinions and options, and lets see where we want to go.

darkside
ID: 251562312
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 13:56

Trade announcement
darkside: Matt Olson and 2018 pick 6.11
to
mjd: 2018 pick 2.01

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 17:35

I'm OK with the decision. I did expect that I would be getting either 3.19 or 2.19 at the time of the trade.

Frankly, it never even occurred to me to raise the question until today. Not sure how often this type of situation occurs.

And it won't surprise me if you do eventually manage to trade down from 3.07 to some later 3rd round pick.

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Feb 23, 2018, 23:13

Anyone looking for a keeper, Thames or Bour can be had for cheap.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Feb 24, 2018, 10:10

I would rather categorize post 71 as an outline of historical procedure / precedence over a commissioner's ruling / decision.

If leaguemembers think we should change these historical practices I want us to discuss it. There is ambiguity involved, and as Commissioner it is my duty to apply the rules either by previous practice (via Ref) or by my fairest interpretation.

That said, if we just avoid trading picks twice, then we avoid this altogether! This is incumbent upon both parties in a trade, me as Commissioner, and the league as a whole to police.

ttucowboy
ID: 8550318
Sun, Feb 25, 2018, 02:16

Guys, guys, guys... I'm all for getting trade offers. Let's make them respectable though. This isn't a local pot smoking league.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 12:08

* Trade Announcement *

Khahan receives:

6.03 (from Species via Tree)
7.19

Species receives:
Michael Conforto
13.16
14.16

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 12:54

Trade Announcement
Species trades his 6.03 and 7.19

to Khahan for Conforto and his 13th and 14th.

I'm still willing to move Sean NewCombe and/or Dominic Smith. Both are prospects and both are likely to be 10th/11th keeper material this year so they don't even necessarily need to take up a prospect slot. Smith is slated to be the Mets opening day 1st baseman. he's not coming up on any prospect rankings anymore but going into last season he was the Mets top prospect and the #4 1st base prospect in baseball. With Bell already at the corner for me, Smith can be traded.

Tree
ID: 77532019
Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 14:27

This isn't a local pot smoking league.

it's a NATIONAL pot smoking league.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 15:24

I am going with the following draft schedule:

- Keepers due Friday March 9th, Noon ET
- Prospect keepers due Saturday March 10th, Noon ET
- Prospect draft starts Sunday March 10th, Noon ET
- Supplemental draft opens Tuesday March 13th
- Supplemental draft clock starts Wednesday March 14th

Thumqer
ID: 281522516
Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 20:27

I don't want to pollute the Keeper thread so I'll post it here - I have a spring training battle with a few guys who can be had in a trade. Some of these will be my own keepers but I'll talk about any of them. Let me know if you are interested!

Rankings per Dynasty Guru's top 500 for OBP leagues
82 - Nick Castellanos, 26, 3B/OF
129 - Justin Smoak, 31, 1B
143 - Adam Eaton, 29, OF
177 - Zack Godley, 27, SP
183 - Steven Souza, 28, OF
223 - Sean Manaea, 26, SP
239 - Mike Zunino, 27, C
241 - Nick Williams, 24, OF

Meatwads
ID: 852443-4
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 04:46

Hello ladies and gentlemen. I've been doing most of my trade talks in one on one settings, but it's time to unleash my "leftover" players on the league. I have some prime players for contenders, and some high upside youth for the rebuilding teams. I'm particularly interested in adding a 3rd round supplemental pick. Get in touch if any of these players interests you as a keeper or prospect. Thanks.

Chris Davis, 1B, Orioles
Chris Taylor, 2B/OF, Dodgers
Mike Moustakas, 3B, Free Agent
Didi Gregorius, SS, Yankees
Amed Rosario, SS, Mets
Franklin Barreto, SS, Athletics (prospect)
Willie Calhoun, OF, Rangers
Sonny Gray, SP, Yankees
Triston McKenzie, SP, Indians
Mitch Keller, SP, Pirates
Anderson Espinoza, SP, Padres (prospect)
Blake Parker, RP, Angels

GO
ID: 565491620
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 08:13

I'm strongly looking at leftovers to add a 9th keeper. At the moment I'm choosing between David Dahl, Mark Melancon and Dinelson Lamet. A young bat, young arm in Lamet (strikeout rate was the fifth highest ever for a rookie starter, trailing only those of Kerry Wood, Dwight Gooden, Mark Prior and Hideo Nomo)-- or a cheapie closer.

I'd buy someone's leftover if its a significant improvement over this crowd.

I'd also sell any of them of course to make my decision easier. Or package them with Alex Wood to upgrade my third SP slot. Give you a good young arm + some depth for a slightly better SP.

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 09:58

Can you guys make the trades that have happened go through? I have no idea who is on Great One's roster right now.

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 14:24

85: What players are not where they are supposed to be?

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 16:46

Ok good. I thought Quintana had gone the other way.

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 16:48

Moncada?

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Feb 27, 2018, 16:54

88: 'tis correct on ESPN. The cut-and-pastes in this thread are dated.

GO
ID: 14143919
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 09:53

I am good with BH not knowing who is on my roster

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 10:04

Didn't Moncada go to Slizz?

slizz
ID: 310522313
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 12:20

I'm creating a separate league called "G20 Streamers".

This is a league that is designed to mirror players streamed in G20 only. At the end of the year I would like to see how my stats add up for players that I only stream in G20. A "stream" is a player that I pick up, insert in the lineup for that day, and immediately drop.

The end goal is to see what benefit (or loss) that it adds to the G20 season. We can quantify the net number without having to manually figure it out via espn stats.

I need at least 4 teams to create the league, but would open it up to more if there is significant interest. So far it's:

Myself
Blue Hen
Species
WG

If interested, shoot me a text or email me.

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 14:29

I once thought about how good a team of free agents would do in a deep league like ours.

I guess a team of the best free agents should easily top the league, but how about a team of 2nd/3rd best free agents at their position? where would be the dropoff? how many options are out there each day and how many of them perform at an acceptable level? I'd also like to look into why these free agents were good for this single day. was it really a favorable matchup or anything that could have been predicted?

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 15:58

2018 Supplemental Draft Grid

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 15:59

2018 Prospect Draft Grid

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 16:19

The grid in [94] --

16 picks listed -- slizz
15 picks listed -- Tree

13 picks listed -- bmd, Meatwads, WG

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 17:30

I try to be accurate, but I make mistakes. Teams are responsible for auditing their picks.

There were multiple trades where a team received a pick but didn't get one back.

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 17:55

<96> and <97> After looking through the grid, the pick that I can't account for is 10.07 (Species). I could easily be wrong, but I personally can't find the deal in which that pick was traded. If that is a mistake, then I would have the 14 picks I'm supposed to. I'm pretty sure I traded a pick every time I added a pick. Hopefully this helps.

Tree
ID: 77532019
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 17:58

it's not showing those grids for me.

how many picks SHOULD we have?

100

Bmd
ID: 825715
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 18:59

I think 7.05 should be mine. I could be wrong though. I made a trade with Slizz where I get mjd's 3rd for my 8th. I don't remember and don't see one recorded where I traded my 7th to him.

101

Judy
ID: 35493114
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 22:10

My iPad cannot read #94.
#95 is fine.

102

Judy
ID: 35493114
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 22:11

Now it can’t read either one...

103

slizz
ID: 310522313
Wed, Feb 28, 2018, 23:05

BMD - good catch. I was just trying to figure out how I had 16 picks...lol

BMD owns 7.05. Must've been a copy and paste error...in my auditing vs my app (the old grid) it had me with the 7th. My guess is that it was rectified to correctly show me with the 8th and the 7th was not changed back...please update!

104

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 11:41

7.05 and 10.07 corrected. Sigh. Not sure how I do that.......

I just entered all of the trades into Draftime too.......but I do that on a trade-by-trade basis, so I am hopeful it is accurate there.

slizz should have 15 from this trade:
2-09-18 slizz receives GO's 5.09 (Moncada/Acuna/Rodgers/picks)

Tree should have 15 from this trade:
7-20-16 Tree receives WG's 8th (Jones/Wainwright)

105

Bean
ID: 304422310
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 13:22

Finally found time to look at my team. I figured that any player not pegged at 260 ADP on ESPN is prolly worth a look; but I have a few guys below the magic number of 180 available.

The following are my top seven keepers (with ESPN ADP) and would take a great deal to acquire:

061 Aroldis Chapman, NYY RP
082 Roberto Osuna, Tor RP
084 Jean Segura, Sea SS
111 Ender Inciarte, Atl OF
136 Marwin Gonzalez, Hou SS, 1B, 2B, OF
143 Adam Duvall, Cin OF
159 Evan Longoria, SF 3B

These players may help your team and be worthy of a keeper spot on your roster. I can only keep two:

129 Adrian Beltre, Tex 3B, DH
163 Evan Gattis, Hou C, DH
175 Trey Mancini, Bal 1B, OF
183 Andrelton Simmons, LAA SS
190 Dustin Pedroia, Bos 2B
208 Kenta Maeda, LAD SP
212 Jacob Faria, TB SP
223 Yonder Alonso, Cle 1B
232 Jonathan Lucroy, FA C

Open for business

106

Bean
ID: 304422310
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 13:23

Forgot to leave my e-mail

beancline@comcast.net

107

mjd
ID: 38914216
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 13:58

Trade [72] not reflected on grid.

darkside gets my 2.01, I get his 6.11

108

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 14:11

For those who cannot see the grids in 94-95, I also put the spreadsheet on the server:
http://rotoguru1.com/base/G20/G20-2018-baseball-draft-grids.xlsx

Apparently, some browsers are not compatible with the feed from google docs.

109

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 17:04

107 - noted. Thank you!

111

Judy
ID: 35493114
Thu, Mar 01, 2018, 22:21

Have the draftime invites been sent out yet?

112

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 02, 2018, 09:14

Returning managers are automatically registered at draftime already.

113

Bmd
ID: 825715
Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 21:38

Am I missing something? Bh trades for a prospect then doesn't keep him? I think these under the table deals need to be out in the open. What is Thumper sending back to him after keepers are declared?

114

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 22:29

I have no deal to send him something after the deadline.

115

WG
ID: 53213822
Sat, Mar 03, 2018, 23:28

My leftovers, if anyone is interested:

Eduardo Nunez 2b 3b of
Ian Desmond 1b of
Tim Beckham ss
Matt Davidson 3b
Robert Stephenson sp

116

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 10:01

someone interested in Cole Hamels or Ervin Santana?

117

Blue hen
ID: 410452818
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 10:16

Thanks for bringing this up.

I thought (and still think) that the market for trading Groome would be better than the market for trading Buehler. With a limited number of keeper slots, and my players like Jon Lester, Miguel Cabrera and Alex Colome still needing to fit in them, trading a prospect eligible player seems like an easier proposition. I’d also like to trade my prospect picks, if I can, so wouldn’t have room to keep Groome if I did that.

Which is to say, if you have room for extra keepers or room for extra prospects, we should talk. I’d love to do a deal after keepers, perhaps including Groome- just let me know if you have any ideas.

118

beastiemiked
ID: 481162721
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 12:14

Ok, I guess that makes sense. Not sure why you rushed into that deal then.

I am concerned about the PTBNL deals. Are they legal? For example, if someone trades me 2 players, I keep both, and then send one back after keepers. I'm assuming that's a no no but I could be wrong.

119

Bean
ID: 304422310
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 13:13

Not sure what PTBNL is, but I hate hocus pocus rule bending crap with a passion. The rules are almost never written down anywhere, new owners are at a serious disadvantage, and it is simply too complicated for absolutely no good reason.

I don't even care for the whole 10th keeper thing either. If you want 10 keepers, just make 10 keepers for everyone; why should one guy get 10, 11 or even 12 keepers, while others have only 9? How the hell does this crap get started anyway?

120

Bmd
ID: 825715
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 13:56

PTBNL - Player To Be Named Later.

Basically in a trade like that in fantasy it's an undisclosed deal that both managers have agreed to but don't announce because it may be in a gray area in the rules.

Bean, I've brought the 10th keeper stuff up in the past. For some reason people like it. I think the 10th keeper should either have to remain a prospect until after the prospect draft or take one of the 9 keeper slots.

121

Bean
ID: 304422310
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 14:11

I recall the Indians making a number of trades for a guy named "Toby Nameletter" back in the 70s when Gabe Paul was the GM for the Yankees and Indians on alternating years. I think Toby played DH (Dishonest Horseshit).

122

Blue hen
ID: 410452818
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 14:31

Note, I might still keep Groom. He’s 19, and the smart Red Sox kept him and traded Kopech. Mostly posted keepers in case someone was interested. Which rebuilding teams should be.

For the record, I might support some of these rule changes, but until then, I’m just working within the rules we’ve got.

123

Blue hen
ID: 410452818
Sun, Mar 04, 2018, 14:31

Groome stupid autocorrect.

124

GO
ID: 565491620
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 00:12

I was just reading the first post thinking, damn, we barely have any rules. We should really right them all down or something.

125

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 00:58

Yeah and there is at least four paragraphs describing the DOs and DONTs of these "PTBNL" trades, right?

There is zero governance of conditional trades (can I make a trade where the pick I get is contingent on the superbowl coin flip?). Hell, we have our most experienced Commish types confused about what pick belongs to whom, because of complications of trades. It's all because we have forgotten the KISS principle and the commish is required to do too much book keeping.

And don't let me get started about all of the ramifications of a mid-draft trade that requires 24 hours before it is official. Should just be outlawed for simplicity's sake.

126

Tree
ID: 77532019
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 08:02

the 10th keeeper rule helps weaker teams attempt to remain competitive.

if we were to get rid of this, i'd only be in favor if we were to increase the number of potential prospect keepers at the same time.

127

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 11:17

Anything that simplifies I am in favor of Tree. I would think the commish would too.

The simplest adjustment knob for parity is the number of keepers. Fewer keepers and parity is improved. Though providing more prospects might speed along a struggling team's rebuild, it is also an opportunity for top teams to stash more talent; maintaining their dynasty even more effectively.

I know a few of you would point to the GP/IP rule as "talk about complicated, what's Bean talking about?".
However, it actually is a hell of a lot less work than checking everyone's lineup every single day to see if they put max players in their starting lineup. That's the corner we painted the commish into with the status quo a couple years ago. That rule relieved him of that daily burden.

Anyway, to re-interate, I, like most experienced commissioners, prefer simple. This league, though it has its charm, and certainly has a collection of great fantasy sport minds, has far too many loopholes to lawyer up on.

Everyone is always looking to stretch the rules to get an edge. Can't we make the competition more about choosing talent, and less about playing the ruleset? Every time we look the other way when someone tries to stretch rules, we set a precedence and further complicate this game.

128

GO
ID: 14143919
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 11:28

There isn’t really a need to set out rules around this type of trade because it could happen in any keeper league and it’s not really something you can monitor or regulate.

Pretend it’s not even this league. Its Dirty Dozen league and I agree to trade Bryce Harper to Khahan for a 3 players… agree we’ll do it in April after the deadline. I need depth, he needs a star.

How is that governable? Trackable? It’s not illegal in the least. It’s just a gentlemen’s agreement to reshuffle the teams and we sit on it until post keepers.

The risk is that I or Khahan back of the deal (or someone gets hurt) in a deal that was never public or official.

This is the only reason why it was discussed just making the deals public --- and sort of locking them in. To eliminate the ambiguity of the handshake deals, gentlemen’s agreements.

So are we to enforce if people are being nice and trustworthy and honor their deals now?

You say you want to keep it simple… but isn’t that just overregulation?

129

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 11:37

How about a deal that trades players for picks with the caveat that the majority of the trade will be undone, just after keeper declaration? (wink, wink) You think that's OK?

130

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 11:41

How bout a deal where I promise to give you a ton of talent this year so you can win it all, and next year I get all the talent so I can win it. Sound like a plan?
Let's do this!!!

131

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 12:13

Bean - those kinds of trades fall squarely under collusion rules. I think by nature these things cannot and should not be so well defined in hard and fast rules. Quite simply put - the moment you make it rule, you make a loophole that people can abuse. That's inherent in rules. The moment you make it a rule that you 'cannot do X' you inherently are allowing Y to happen.

Look at your post 129- Lets say we make a rule that once you trade players to another manager you cannot trade them back. That eliminates that from happening. Well what happens when I trade a pitcher and a hitter for a hitter upgrade then I get a few pitching injuries and that team and I match up later in the year and I try to re-acquire that pitcher? With your rule I can't do that.

With the way the rules are now I have the option, but the commish also has the option to investigate and see if anything shady was going on.

We DO have rules in place to prevent the kind of things you talk about in posts 129 and 130. Its called, "collusion is not allowed." Its a broadly defined word that works perfectly well.

As for the under the table trades that you talk about - when you see them and they don't sit well with you, call them out. I've asked for explanations on trades many times and have received them. I've flat out called out BH a few times on trades but after discussion realized there was nothing underhanded going on.

As for the 'lets do this later' type of deals like GO talks about. I think they just need to be examined on a case by case basis. In GO's description there is absolutely nothing wrong. You reach an agreement on a trade and simply take action on it later. But I can see how that can be very easily abused. But again, we have a collusion rule to stop that kind of abuse.

132

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 12:21

Yet,

I was offered a trade very much like what I described. I can only conclude that somehow we have set an environment where this is acceptable.

I don't trust the "there is no collusion" argument, when a trade in the future is a condition for the trade today, it is collusion plain and simple.

133

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 13:07

Collusion is where one team gets worse while helping another team get better. I don't think any team in this league has ever accepted or proposed a trade that was not in the long or short term interests of their team. Ever. Please call it out if you disagree with that statement.

We had many items of value in G20: rights to players, rights to draft picks, rights to keeper slots. Each of those has a specific value, including rights to keeper slots. If you are offering me the right combination of players, you can bet I'll let you use one of my keeper slots. It happened several times last year:

- Species offered a great combination of picks and prospect picks, and Meatwads let him use a spot for Craig Kimbrel.

- Great One was so excited to get Rafael Devers, that he was happy to let me use a spot to keep James Paxton.

In both cases, both teams were satisfied afterwards - and I'd say the teams that lost the keeper spot won out in both situations. I don't think anybody in the league has an issue here.

Now, I don't have a guy like Rafael Devers this year, and I don't have a first round prospect pick. But I do, through shrewd managing in 2017, have a bunch of keeper quality players. I have players of the quality that people would be willing to surrender a keeper slot in addition to the slot needed to keep them. In that situation, why couldn't I make a pair of balanced trades, get the other manager a player he wants, and get someone back from him post-keepers? How is that different than the previous situation? And how is that against our current rules? As before, I'd consider a rule that eliminated this (if you can think of a fair one), but under the current rules, this certainly seems like a viable strategy for both teams.

134

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 13:38

I don't think anybody in the league has an issue here.

You don't speak for me. I absolutely have issue with this.

If this is allowed then why not be allowed to trade next year's keeper slots for this year's keeper slots, as long as both managers agree and are satisfied? Or maybe that's collusion but the other isnt? Where is the line drawn? Can I trade my top 5 picks this year for your top 5 picks next year? What is the rule that governs what is or is not collusion? If your answer is Its case by case, I say you have no definition.

135

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 13:38

136

Bmd
ID: 825715
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 13:43

"Collusion is where one team gets worse while helping another team get better. "

Nope. This is not the definition of collusion. It's actually quite the opposite. It's something that benefits both parties while deceiving others.

If we want to allow these types of trades then we should just allow teams to trade a keeper slot or a prospect keeper slot. I don't like either idea. It's more up front though.

137

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 13:53

Think about what I am saying for a moment. I am not accusing anyone of cheating here.

What I am saying is driving down a road with no shoulder in the rain is likely to lead to a few cars occasionally rolling over. You want to avoid these slippery slopes install some guard rails. Preferably ones with very bright reflectors and thick steel.

138

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 14:20

Alright, I propose a rule (and may not even vote for it) where no trades may happen between the keeper deadline and the end of the draft.

Pro and con. Go.

139

Bmd
ID: 825715
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 14:24

Looking to potentially add one keeper. 2b, SS, OF, Sp, or RP. Have supplemental and prospect picks.

140

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 14:36

<138> I got a better idea, you cant trade picks of any sort and all keepers are declared simultaneously thereby eliminating the 10th keeper BS.

Pros: It's simpler and preserves parity.

Cons: None that I care about

141

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 17:03

I don't think most of this league is looking for something that's oversimplified. That's a con. In fact, I'm sure "can't trade picks" would get voted down easily. I can see positives in some of the stuff you're talking about, but also cons. It's important to talk about those things rather than speak in generalities. Personally, I enjoy a nuanced league where understanding the rules of the league can lead to creative trading.

142

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 17:51

That's exactly my point, I dont care to play fantasy court room or fantasy tax evasion. I want to play fantasy BASEBALL.

143

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 19:03

Damn. Work on cleaning your garage on Sunday and some morning appointments on Monday and I miss all the fun.....

If I am interpreting the posts correctly, I think we have two main topics, which I will comment upon in separate posts (hopefully for ease of follow up discussion).

1) Policing trades / collusion / deals that overlap pre-and-post keeper

Needless to say, collusion is not allowed and will not be tolerated. I will immediately throw out any teams involved in something that is true collusion. Collusion being defined as:

"secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others."

It is my sincere belief that the managers in this league would never truly collude. For the most part we know one another too well through many many years of being on this board......and if not that, they were referred to this league by someone in the league fairly close to them. If someone vouches for a manager that would pull this type of BS, it would reflect poorly upon them.

So, that said, while our rules do not outline everything below, here are the principles that have governed this league (and probably any league we have ever participated in) since inception:
- Any trade must represent fair value for both sides and must NEVER be contingent upon any other value at some future date.
- All trades must have all consideration completely described/included at the time of the trade.
- Contingent trades are allowed, but must be clearly defined.
- Trades may not cross league deadlines.

What I am getting the sense that Bean and bmd are concerned about are trades that cross league deadlines. I agree with those concerns.

An example would be:

1) blue hen trades me Miguel Cabrera for a 3rd round pick pre-keepers.
2) I trade him Craig Kimbrel for a 1st round pick post-keepers.

He really wants Kimbrel as a post keeper, but I don't like what he can offer post-keeper on his own, so we use Cabrera as pre-keeper 'value' for the post-keeper asset he wants. This is not allowed.

--------------------------

That said, a simple post-keeper trade with value-for-value changing hands is perfectly legitimate. It is also perfectly legitimate to negotiate that trade in advance.

Last year I traded a boatload of picks to Tree for Edwin Encarnacion. This was done after the keeper deadline. There was certainly proper consideration on its own. The fact that it was pre-negotiated before the deadline was immaterial.

I see no issues with these trades, so long as there is sufficient value within the one trade.

I am not sure how precisely to write rules to cover this but am open to suggestions.

144

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 19:30

He really wants Kimbrel as a post keeper, but I don't like what he can offer post-keeper on his own, so we use Cabrera as pre-keeper 'value' for the post-keeper asset he wants. This is not allowed.

Put it in the rules so nobody thinks it is OK. Pretty soon you'll have a rule book thats inches thick. Much easier ways to deal with this. See 140

145

Bmd
ID: 825715
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 19:35

Species, that's kinda what I wanted clarified. I'm definitely ok with all the post keeper trades. I just didn't like the idea of deals like the Cabrera example you gave. Good to know those aren't going to fly in this league.

146

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 21:26

2) Prospect Call Ups / "10th Keeper" rules:

In my opinion the prospect rules apply equally to all teams, just like real baseball does. Focus your resources on building a strong farm system -- you reap the rewards of callups to your major league squad. I disagree with Bean's assertion that the system somehow favors one team over another. In my view, it provides a method of building that rewards preparation, creativity and focus with a bit of risk taking thrown in.

The benefit of having prospects available to call up to your main roster is a mixture of both good fortune and planning - again not unlike teams that draft well in MLB.

My trade for Robles and Senzel was pretty specific. I wanted assets that were expected to be ready for 2019. Unfair advantage? Not so in my view - I paid a hefty 2018 price but I did so with a 2019 return in mind. Is that random chance or a specific target? To me, it is part of the nuance and skill of the league. Being different from standard leagues was one of the covenants upon which the league was founded, and one I do not believe should be changed.

Note: we have adopted the term "10th keeper" as a moniker for the call up rule. Perhaps that is misleading. It is just a call up -- no different than MLB. Some teams have Severino, Judge and Sanchez to call up.....the Giants have Tyler Beede. Giants suck. Not the Yankees fault.

----------------------------------

There is a separate issue, one that bmd brought up before, and one Bean has also commented upon as to as part of the timing of our keepers and prospect keepers. bmd (and youngroman might have also referred to this in the past) has questioned how those who do a "10th keeper" call up also get the double benefit of a fresh new prospect pick in the same draft.

When you draft a prospect, a huge part of the nuance/skill is taking the highest talent while equally managing the expectation of that prospect's arrival in the majors. Brendan Rodgers as a SS in Colorado was a juicy prospect in our 2016 prospect draft.....but as a HS draftee he was going to take 3-ish years to be viable. Compare him with College stud Andrew Benintendi -- who is already a stud and was a full time participant by 2017. When you draft guys who are long-term, there is both an upside to the highest level young guys but also a price to be paid and weighed when you draft them.

I interpreted this objection/concern not as being against the call up/10th keeper rules per se, but more a matter of the double benefit. I agree it is an advantageous benefit, but I never fully understood the rationale behind the concern. Doesn't the benefit of reloading your prospect picks also apply to everyone?

147

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 21:53

144: What are you trying to accomplish with having both keeper deadlines the same? What loophole is it fixing?

148

Khahan
ID: 367431722
Mon, Mar 05, 2018, 22:58

- Any trade must represent fair value for both sides and must NEVER be contingent upon any other value at some future date.

Except that we see trades on a regular basis that are contingent upon future value. And just 2 lines below we have this:

- Contingent trades are allowed, but must be clearly defined.

This is where I'm in agreement with Bean that we run into sticky situations. For one, are contingent trades allowed or not?

We pretty regularly see players for draft picks where the draft pick received, whether it be 1st, 2nd or 5th round is contingent upon the traded players future value -IE how many saves did he get? How many Hr did he hit?

These future trades have always bothered but my solution was simply not to participate in them. If 2 managers feel that is how a deal gets done and are happy with the outcome, let them do it. But these 2 rules clearly and directly contradict each other. I think maybe some clarification at the least along the lines of: Contingent trades are allowed on the basis of the performance of the player(s) involved only. No additional players may be added or swapped out at a later date but draft slots can be adjusted based on involved player performance.

For me, I still most likely will not make a trade. But the way the rules are written right now, the second one I cited clearly allows for some shenanigans along the lines of: If player A doesn't hit 50 saves by the seasons end we:
1) trade the players back
2) trade the 'under achiever' back for the player of my choice
3) I received a player to be named later from his roster

I see major pitfalls in all of those options. I think limiting contingent trades to draft pick level only is a fine compromise.

149

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 01:06

<147> The way I understand the rule of the 10th keeper is that we can exceed the 9 keeper only rule because we call up a prospect after the deadline to declare MLB keepers. Moments later, we have a deadline to declare our prospect keepers, and since the prospect is now in the major league roster, he is no longer counted as a prospect keeper. In my mind this is why you think its a legit deal.

Frankly, I dont know how you got here, I just hate the rule. It is an unnecessary complication that is a gaming of the game abstraction that has nothing to do with baseball talent judging.

151

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 01:58

<147>This is from your rules above:

Timing of the Keeper Deadline, Prospect Draft and Supplemental Draft
Each March, as proposed by a Commissioner, the league hold the following events, in this order:

1) Keeper Deadline: all teams must designate their keepers. They may designate up to 9.
NOTE: At this time, once the Keeper Deadline has passed, managers may also call up prospects to their active roster. In this scenario, those prospects are separate from their 9 keepers.
ADDITIONALLY: Once the keeper deadline has passed, managers may exceed 9 or more players by trade.
2) Prospect Keeper Deadline: Managers designate their Prospect Keepers. They may designate up to 3.
3) Prospect draft picks are assigned and the Prospect Draft is commenced per our rules below.
4) The Supplemental Draft is completed.

If the 9 keeper deadline happened at exactly the same time as the 3 prospect keeper deadline, then promotion of a prospect would cost you a prospect pick. That's what I was getting at.

The way it is now, there is no limit to how many keepers someone can have without costing him anything. Its just yet another tool to allow someone to carry over wealth from one season to the next.

The only reason you even need a keeper limit for a keeper league is to maintain parity. This 10th keeper rule blatantly disregards the pivotal importance of parity in the league. If you want to keep it, at least limit it to the bottom half of the league.

If you don't pay more attention to parity, you'll continue to lose your bottom teams, its that simple.

152

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 10:09

I actually support Bean's proposal, although I think blatantly disregards is a little strong. And we can't do it for this year, since trades were clearly made with 10th keeper intent in mind. I would support this for next year, even though it probably kills most of Zack Collins' 2019 10th keeper value.

153

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 10:10

And I think Khahan is misinterpreting the idea of "future value" - this isn't player value but pick/positioning value. I would also support eliminating trades that are contingent on performance.

154

Tree
ID: 77532019
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 10:25

The way it is now, there is no limit to how many keepers someone can have without costing him anything. Its just yet another tool to allow someone to carry over wealth from one season to the next.

this isn't true at all.

i doubt there's an owner in this league that hasn't had to give up prospects that were once kept as a "10th keeper."

this year i'll likely relinquish two guys who were 10th keepers, and i know the previous year i gave up one.

i am a huge proponent of prospects having time to develop, and the 10th keeper rule at least allows for one additional season of keeping a prospect to see if they do just that - more often than not, they probably don't.

more so, there can be serious ramifications in keeping that roster spot filled with a 10th prospect, in that it can prevent you from picking up a player that might actually help you.

i had two players on my roster last season that combined for 10 hits, 8 runs, 5 RBIs, 1 SB, and zero homers.

155

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 10:32

Yeah, I had all four at bats of Kyle Schwarber's 10th keeper season.

156

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 10:47

BH - there is no misinterpretation in the first rule. It clearly states: must NEVER be contingent upon any other value at some future date.

All I'm asking is that we clarify these 2 rules so that they don't contradict each other. I think in that regard we are on the same page at least.

158

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 13:27

Heh, we can discuss other rules later, but looks like we have clarification of some of the urgent ones..

So, pretty desperately looking to get something for my leftovers: Puig, Miggy, Lester, Colome, Samardzija, looking for picks or prospect picks.

And looking for completely unrelated post-keeper-deadline trades, particularly closers and corner hitters, and offering picks, prospect picks, and Groome or Morejon.

159

Nerfherders
ID: 33543714
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 13:31

On the flip side, I did not 10th Bellinger last year, thinking he was still a year or more away from sniffing the majors. It was a bad choice as I not only lost some of his stats from early in the year, but I lost the ability to 10th him this year. I had assumed the AB limits were calculated at the end of the year, not on the fly. Had I known the rules a little bit better, I would've called him up a month or two before I did.

So the tip for the day is: If you don't 10th someone and they break into the every day lineup, you should call him up right away.

160

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 14:11

<154>i am a huge proponent of prospects having time to develop

Nerf implemented a two tiered eligibility in TPKL. Gives plenty of time to let a guy mature before you call him up. Perhaps that would interest you.

162

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 15:08

159: You would not have been able to 10th keeper Bellinger this year. He exceeded limits and would have been required to stay in your 9 keepers.

What you lost was the draft pick you would have reaped by calling him up prior to the Prospect draft.

163

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 15:17

148: There is a huge difference between:

1) the trades that change the value of a draft pick contingent upon a defined statistical level
2) the "future value" / deadline circumventing trades we probably all agree should not be allowed.

I suppose my wording was poor. Let me just say this - I would disallow a trade that circumvented roster limits, keeper limits or keeper deadlines. I do not believe we have had such a trade in our history.

I would support a rule change that either disallows them completely or limits these trades to SPECIFIC, well defined adjustments to a single draft pick based upon a defined measurement of performance.

I will poll the league about this and the prospect keeper deadline concern (that I will address next).

164

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 15:30

151: Ok, that clarifies what you were saying.

You are not against the call up rule. You simply believe that a team getting the call up should not also simultaneously receive the benefit of a replacement Prospect Pick in the same draft. This is the same perspective that bmd has brought up in the past.

I still do not understand what aspect of anything is being circumvented, providing an unfair advantage or somehow favoring one team over another. That said, I will put forth this concept again as a potential rule change.

165

Tree
ID: 77532019
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 15:52

a two tiered eligibility in TPKL. Gives plenty of time to let a guy mature before you call him up. Perhaps that would interest you.

and these tiers are?

166

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:22

<164>I still do not understand what aspect of anything is being circumvented, providing an unfair advantage or somehow favoring one team over another.

I think we are mincing words here. The team who gets the 10th keeper is absolutely getting something that the guy who doesn't get the 10th keeper isn't.

You would like to say that both people have the "opportunity" to carry this 10th keeper, its just that one of them doesn't care to.

I can only say that a guy (or gal Judy) who has "extra" assets, you know a guy who did well last year, is far more likely to be able to trade for this benefit, than a guy whose team really, really sucks.

167

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:25

<165> Nerf uses

Under 160 ABs 50 IPs to be drafted as prospect
Call up Hitters by 300 GPs
Call up Pitchers by 400 IPs or 150 GPs

168

Nerfherders
ID: 33543714
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:26

The first tier is used to determine if a player is eligible to be selected as a prospect, and that is 150 IP or 160 AB. That is pretty standard.

The second tier is for how long a player may remain on a prospect roster, and for this particular league, those limits are very generous. 300 games played, 400 IP, or 150 games played for pitchers. Basically two full years of production. These numbers are calculated in the offseason, and those prospects must be called up or dropped at the keeper deadline. The limits are generous because originally, we had no second tier and managers were holding onto prospects for years and not calling them up, sometimes to their detriment. (I recall one season where an emergent closer was left on a prospect roster, and his saves would have been the difference between 1st and 2nd place.)

169

Nerfherders
ID: 33543714
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:28

Sorry, Bean has it right. 50 IP, not 150.

170

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:35

<164> You are not against the call up rule. You simply believe that a team getting the call up should not also simultaneously receive the benefit of a replacement Prospect Pick in the same draft. This is the same perspective that bmd has brought up in the past.

Yes, and as you think this through, you will see that if you have to pay a prospect pick for this privilege, you simply are doing away with the 10th keeper altogether. That's so, because you can already promote a player post draft.

171

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:42

** LEAGUE POLL **

We have two possible rule changes that are being discussed. I wish to get a sense for the direction the league wants to go before putting it to a formal vote:

1) Contingent trades

Historically, contingent trades have only occurred where the draft pick consideration going to the "selling" party was contingent upon a player's level of statistical performance. i.e. -
- if Craig Kimbrel gets 40 saves, team X receives a 2nd round pick.
- if Craig Kimbrel gets 30-39 saves, team X receives a 3rd round pick.
- if Craig Kimbrel gets 29 saves or less, team X receives a 4th round pick.

Some teams are worried that contingent trades could possibly lead to teams circumventing roster limits, keeper limits or keeper deadlines. This is a legitimate concern. We can either ban the process altogether or specify in our rules that trades may only be contingent upon a defined statistic and may only alter the value of a single draft pick.

VOTE #1:
A) Ban contingent trades altogether
B) Limit contingent trades to alter the value of a single draft pick based upon the outcome of a defined statistic

2) Prospect keeper call ups

It has been brought up that our prospect call up (aka "10th keeper") rules offer an additional benefit to the team making the call up, in that not only do they enjoy the benefit of the 10th keeper, but the double benefit of a new prospect pick in the same year.

This never used to be an issue, because the Prospect Draft was at the All-Star break and things were cut and dry. People could still call up "10th keepers" in March or April and get a new prospect pick in July. Now it is compacted all in March so I do not see a material difference.

That said, it is the viewpoint of some managers that this process is somehow creating unfair advantages to certain teams. The suggestion is to freeze call ups between the Prospect Keeper deadline and the end of the Prospect Draft. Teams would still be able to have call ups, but this would be done after the Prospect Draft,and thus those call ups would have been required to have been kept as Prospect Keepers.

Personally, I have still yet to have seen an argument as to how the existing process in any way grants an unfair advantage to one team over another or why this change is necessary. Bean has commented vaguely about fantasy "court room" or fantasy "tax evasion". I interpret this to mean he wants a more standard league.

The G20 leagues were founded to be different and more nuanced than standard fantasy leagues. Sure, it takes a bit more of an investment to understand the rules and apply them to your team's best advantage.....just like it is each manager's measurement of skill in picking players and making trades, it is each manager's skill in managing their prospects that contributes to their success.

If we were to change the rule, the other aspect to consider would be the date it takes effect. Speaking solely for myself, I made a trade recently where a material amount of the consideration from my point of view was the value of the players I acquired and their 2019 "10th keeper" value. There could be other managers with 2019 prospect interests that could be negatively affected by a change.

VOTE #2:
A) I prefer to keep the dates/call up system the same
B) I support a change requiring 10th keepers to be called up only after the prospect draft has been completed
If B, would this rule go into effect for the 2019 or 2020 season?

172

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:45

Bean 166: The team who gets the 10th keeper is absolutely getting something that the guy who doesn't get the 10th keeper isn't.

In other words, drafting a prospect who eventually becomes a 10th keeper is a skill, and people who have that skill are rewarded. We are certainly free to debate which skills we want in a league, but I think one that makes you think about future performance and timeline of a player is generally a good one to have in league like this. As I said, I'd probably vote to kill this if it came up, but I can definitely see the other side.

173

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:49

1 A for me. I'm not ready to vote on 2 yet, officially.

174

Tree
ID: 77532019
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 16:55

1. not sure
2. A, but i would not be opposed to B if there were deeper, long-term prospect "benches", so to speak.

175

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 17:01

Just wanted to throw this out there for your amusement/pondering. I play in three keeper leagues at rotoguru who use prospects. Not a single one of them uses Rookie of the year thresholds for their prospects, all three are slightly higher.

Every prospect list you will ever look at on the internet uses RoY thresholds. It's kinda like you do your homework you find all of the RoY candidates. For extra credit, you can find guys who aren't eligible for RoY, but are prospect eligible.

Now, I am sure you all can guess. I think this is dumb as dirt. Just use RoY thresholds and quit torturing us.

177

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 17:08

<172> I would say that the skill of a manager that picks a guy with 299 ABs is no greater than the manager who picks a guy with 301 ABs.

178

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 17:29

<171>

1 A
2 B, but as I stated in <170>, that's just doing away with 10th keeper. Effective 2019 season.

179

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 17:35

But I think the skill of a guy who finds someone with 100 AB is greatest than a guy who finds someone with 400 AB. What's next, you don't like quality starts because you can have a 4.50 ERA?

180

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 17:45

I prefer QS over W, I prefer S+H over SV, I prefer OBP over AVG, I prefer Slug% over HRs. I believe that all of the ones I prefer are better indicators of player quality. In the case of S+H its more about broadening the player pool of relievers, there are awesome set up men out there that don't get their due in most leagues. Worse yet is that most leagues can degenerate to Closer chasing races because of it.

182

slizz
ID: 310522313
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 18:02

I'm curious to why we don't make the keeper and prospect deadline the same day...I forget if we covered it already but it appears the only benefit is for these post keep trades that cause controversy on the board.

Making both deadlines the same day would a) streamline the process and b) eliminate a ton of headaches...

183

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 18:02

Holds are too random. But that's a discussion for another day.

184

darkside
ID: 81492120
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 18:03

1. B (I've made a trade based on # of saves. It worked very well and I see no problem w/ it keeping it as an option)
2. A (Historically I wouldn't have benefitted from our current setup since I tried to draft prospects who were coming into the league that year. My current prospects break that mold and will likely be 10th keepers. I didn't have an issue before and definitely don't now)

185

Bean
ID: 304422310
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 18:04

<182> Amen brother

186

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 18:37

My thoughts reflect the fact that I actually like the quirky rules. The way the league is set up, it feels like we’re actual pseudo GM’s who have to think creatively about how to improve their teams. I don’t think the rules are overly complicated in this regard and adding some restrictions would limit the creativity or ways to improve a team. Ethics are a completely different story but I do not see anything ethically compromising with the prospect callup situation.

1. B - trade return based on performance is like offering a player incentives in a contract so I think it’s fun
2. A - I’ve been stacking up p picks in this draft and 2019 because I wanted to establish a minor league pipeline. Without the callup rule as is, prospecting is a lot less fun and more restricting

187

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 19:06

1) B

2) A

188

mjd
ID: 38914216
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 19:19

1. B
2. A

189

slizz
ID: 310522313
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 19:23

1) B
2) A

190

Bmd
ID: 825715
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 20:36

1) A
2) B 2020

191

GO
ID: 14143919
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 20:37

1) B
2) A

192

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 21:45

1) B
2) A

193

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 21:47

1. B
2. A

194

Judy
ID: 35493114
Tue, Mar 06, 2018, 22:02

1). B
2). A (I think...it means 10th etc. keeper rule stays?)

195

Khahan
ID: 367431722
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 02:06

1) B

2) A

With what slizz is saying in 182 we could still use the 10th keeper rules.

196

Bean
ID: 304422310
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 02:58

I can see the crayon scribblings on the wall. However, I will be back next year for my annual sermon, your souls are not completely lost yet.

You will eventually see the wisdom of my town square message, gonna pass the basket for a bigger megaphone this season. The congregation is still behind me, and the choir is still singing my praises and loves my preaching. Meanwhile, repent brothers and sister repent, the end is nigh.

Seriously, Slizz's same day suggestion is gold...and Nerf's tiered prospects are really worth a look too, no kidding.

197

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 05:42

1 A: no strong preference, so I am ok with B too. I would also reconsider the wording of traded picks. trading a pick should either be worded with a specific pick (4.12) or with "my 4th round pick", not "a 4th round pick". if you trade "my 4th round pick" twice then the second 4th round pick needs to be higher than your pick (could be your 3rd or at worst 4.11 if your pick is 4.12). this removes confusion and also assures that someone does not game the system by trading down in these rounds because the wording of the trade allows it.

2 A: if you know the dynamic of our rules, and I guess every manager should know it after our current discussion, you value some prospects differently. what's not to like about that?

198

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 11:10

1) B
2) A

199

Nerfherders
ID: 33543714
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 11:42

1. B
2. A. I don't see enough there to alter the rules any further. You're trading off the idea of getting a prospect now by 10thing, or next year by holding and/or calling him up mid-season. I wouldn't mind seeing the call-up limits relaxed just a little bit so that there might be a two-year window to make that decision, but that is a question for another day.

200

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 12:21

Bean, you are extremely welcome in this league. I appreciate that you care. Glad you joined us.

I'm not sold on the tiered thing just yet - really just means a player is getting special treatment even after he's in the majors. Puts even more emphasis on getting good minor leaguers, which I'm not sure many favor - although might be wrong about that.

As before, I'd vote yes to add a 4th prospect slot.

202

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 13:41

By the poll results, the league prefers to keep the prospect rules as is. We also wish to keep contingent trades simple and restrict them to limit the contingency to altering a single draft pick based upon a defined statistical outcome.

Seeking feedback on the following wording:
---------------
Contingent Trades
Contingent trades are allowed, however they must:
1) only be contingent upon a single statistic
2) only alter the value of a single draft pick

These trades may have the contingency based upon items such as HR, SB, W, Saves as well as non-categorical statistics such as GP or IP.

These trades may not alter either the type of draft pick (i.e. supplemental vs. prospect draft) nor the year of the draft in question.
----------------

Does the above capture our intentions well and eliminate loopholes? Thanks.

203

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 13:51

* Trade Announcement *

Thumper receives:
Species' 2019 5th

Species receives:
Zack Godley
Thumper's 2019 9th

204

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 13:54

Confirmed.

Wording looks good to me on the rule

205

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 14:08

A few years ago, BH and I had the Cabrera -> Sale/Arrieta trade that had contingencies ... but not "a defined statistical outcome". If Cabrera did not get a certain # of GP [this would be a defined statistical outcome], I sent a pick the following season.

But if Chris Sale ended up with TJ surgery [this would NOT be a defined statistical outcome] that season ... any picks regarding Cabrera were void.

Would such a deal now be dis-allowed??

206

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 14:14

1) C - Contingent trades are allowed, but must be clearly defined.
2) A - I think this is the whole point of the p-keeper system.

I am against any/all rule change that happen a week before keeper deadlines.
This business should be handled in December, coinciding with MLB's Winter Meetings, to give teams an adequate time to adjust strategy in advance.

That being said, I'd like to add this to the next discussion agenda (brought it up last year, but never got tabled for a vote):
Abolish:
If you have traded away a pick: As noted above, any team that has traded away a pick must comply with the terms of their trade. This means that the number of prospects you are allowed to keep is reduced by the number of prospect picks you have traded away.
If you have traded for a pick: Acquired picks are only used as picks in the Prospect Draft. The owning of another team's pick in no way alters the number of prospect keepers you may have, nor does it effect the assignment of your own prospect picks.
Replace with:
Teams are allowed to acquire Prospect Picks as a substitute for previously traded Prospect Slots, but may have no more than 3 keepers on their prospect list at Prospect Keeper deadline.

It seems counterintuitive that once a team trades away a p-pick, they can never get that p-slot back to oover p-keepers.
If the point of the rule is to limit hoarding, then in this limit 3 scenario, that risk is eliminated. Thoughts?

207

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 14:51

205: I tried to allow for that by noting that GP or IP could be used as a measurement.

The sentiment I heard from the discussion was that contingent trades would be OK if they were simple. I am just trying to keep it simple.

There are no trades currently on the books that would be brought into question if we make the proposed wording official.........and then teams can take this new rule into account when crafting a trade in the future. Fair?

206: I agree that rule changes need to take into account team strategies that are set into the future. Without any contingent trades on the books at the moment, I think our new rule avoids any strategic entanglements. Agree?

208

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 15:07

Can I have Chris Sale back?

I agree with 206, but I think we voted on that previously and it failed. I support Teams are allowed to acquire Prospect Picks as a substitute for previously traded Prospect Slots, but may have no more than 3 keepers on their prospect list at Prospect Keeper deadline.

I'd add a caveat on contingent trades that none of the possible outcome trades may be traded until the contingency is met.

209

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 15:08

The Keeper Deadline is approaching - Friday March 9th, 12:00pm ET

All teams are REQUIRED to mark their keepers in ESPN -- WG I mean you!!

The following teams have yet to mark keepers in ESPN:

Tree
blue hen
Fosten
bmd
darkside
Thumper
ttucowboy
slizz
Khahan
WG
mjd
Nerfherders

Thank you!

210

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 16:18

207: Sounds fair Species. In general, I don't mind contingency trades or creativity or thinking outside of the box. Fine points made in the discussion above from all sides. I'm sure there's ways to exploit and go overboard with it, but I haven't thought of all the ways. It does appear that the two rules contradict each other, so a rewording seems necessary. Limiting it to draft picks mitigates the risk, allowing all contingencies opens the floodgates. I think there's different use cases that are acceptable, while others may be questionable. To control or allow for experimentation? Depends on how much you want to moderate each discussion. I'll abstain from vote 1, seems like its trending B anyway.

211

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 16:50

206: I might amend the language in this proposal to eliminate the word 'previously', as I'm not sure it would make a difference which p-trade occurred first, as long as the max is 3 p-keepers.

212

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 18:37

1) A - I don't believe managers should be allowed to write language into trades that would bail them out, or increase their haul at a later date. If someone performs poorly or gets injured, that's the risk everyone takes when making a deal. If teams are allowed to do this, I don't see why anybody should make another trade without have an insurance clause added to limit the downside. I see this causing headaches, and ultimately making trading even more difficult. I would've insisted clauses written in for Cruz and Encarnacion due to age. Where does it stop? Can I write language into the deal that says the trade is altered if Dee Gordon doesn't retain 2B eligibility next season? Any pitcher would need to have an arm injury clause. I could argue it would be foolish to not include them if they are allowed.

2) A - Although I believe our current rules almost forces teams to promote prospects before they are ready to contribute significantly, I believe there is skill and strategy involved with our current rules. Granted there is no skill involved in someone getting 299 AB versus 301 AB, but there needs to be some number that we can all live with. I can't for the life of me figure out how this is beneficial to certain managers, but not others. The only managers who would have an advantage are the ones who simply do a better job within the rules we have, and that's not unfair.

Other topics worth (re)visting in the future

Most of you who have played with me in the past, or talked with my privately for any length of time, knows that I support making our minor league draft larger. The more prospects we own, the more trade assets everyone has and the more chances managers have to use building through the minors as a viable option. As it currently stands, only a few top prospects each year end up being more than replacement level players for that season. Which makes them even more difficult to keep as a viable "regular" keeper.

I also feel that the league should implement a couple DL spots. Since we have such high minimums to reach, it really puts people in a sticky situation if they are forced to hang onto a star who's out for the season. Or they are forced to trade or cut them, just because they can't put them on the DL like real GMs. Not trying to start more controversy or ignite another vote. I would like to come back to this and other ideas at an appropriate time.

213

Blue hen
ID: 410452818
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 20:11

We have 8 bench slots. Let’s increase that before we rely on the DL slot.

214

Tree
ID: 217372011
Wed, Mar 07, 2018, 21:13

Is there no way to mark keepers on the app?

215

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 10:33

Anyone have a leftover closer or likely closer to move? Preferably for a 2019 pick?? Please let me know, thanks!

216

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 10:54

Here a case for Yasiel Puig as a keeper on your team. Let's have a look at the Faketeams.com Tiered Outfield Rankings.

As you can see, Puig ranks 18th among outfielders on this list, right between Andrew McCutchen and Justin Upton. Players below him: Mazara, Cespedes, Buxton, Happ, Santana, LoCain, Odubel, Khris Davis, Hamilton, Braun, Polanco, Haniger, and like 75 other guys. Are you keeping any of those guys?

But it gets better. Puig is younger than a bunch of those guys - five years younger than Cespedes, for example. And Puig walks a ton, which makes him more valuable in G20 than in this list, which is AVG based.

Puig really should be kept. I'm looking for picks in return, or to package him with Elvis Andrus, Miguel Cabrera, or James Paxton in exchange for a better player. Or I can throw him back and hope he makes it to pick 1.20. Let's get those offers in - hope to hear from you.

217

Judy
ID: 35493114
Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 11:59

Do we do the prospect draft on this site?
Or will there be a separate new one?

218

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 13:29

217: We will have the Prospect Draft on this website in a separate thread.

219

Bmd
ID: 825715
Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 13:39

Slizz trades
Wade Davis
2019 14th Round supplemental pick

Bmd trades
2019 3rd Round supplemental pick
Edwin Jackson

220

slizz
ID: 310522313
Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 13:52

Confirmed.

221

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 11:07

Trade Announcement

Meatwads trades :
Mike Moustakas, 3B, KC
8th round pick - 2019

WG trades :
5th round pick - 2019

222

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 11:12

TRADE ANNOUNEMENT

WG trades:
Travis Shaw, 3B, MIL

Thumper trades:
Justin Smoak, 1B, TOR

223

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 11:20

Confirming both

224

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 11:43

Approved in ESPN. Please refresh your keepers!

226

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 12:20

Thanks for some great discussion, pre-deadline. I think I had at least one exchange with all 19 of you. And all of you were great to talk to, and smart. Definitely different from the old days. Special callout to Darkside - definitely wasn't afraid to go in depth or get creative, although I'm guessing you'll be kicking yourself soon. Cheers to Thump for being the one to actually do a deal. And I think Meatwads wins the offseason - clearly going for it this year.

Still pretty happy with how my team is set up - 4 great SP, and 5 great hitters. I'm looking to trade both of my prospect picks and all three of my prospects for literally anything I can get. If you've got a closer, we should talk.

227

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 12:36

The keeper deadline has passed. Teams may now exceed 9 players, either by trade or prospect call up. bmd gets the consistency award for another year of not entering his keepers in ESPN. WG gets the surprise of the year by actually entering his!

You may get an email saying we have entered in our offline draft. This is our work around for our offline draft on Draftime. I processed only your 10th keepers in this "draft" -- so you should see them on your ESPN rosters. Waivers are running, so by the time we start our draft in Draftime, the FA pool will be available and we can use the ESPN database to assist in our draft.

Technically everyone has until tomorrow at Noon ET to trade or alter your Prospect Keepers and 10th keepers. I have gone ahead and entered them now for my convenience (home sick, so have the time), but they can still be changed until tomorrow.

Please post with any questions.

228

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 13:08

Gotta keep the commish on his toes.

229

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 13:36

With equal amounts of "HALLELUJAH!" and "Doh! Why didn't I realize this 5 years ago....." --- I have realized that I can add 10th keepers in Draftime as a replacement for their respective teams' last pick(s).

First and foremost, this takes the guessing and hassle out of the end of the draft by wondering who has foregone picks via 10th keepers. No more waiting for a time out (or for an Admin to realize it and skip the pick)!

This also gives teams a more clear picture of their playeres in-draft within Draftime. In the past you kind of had to double check with ESPN at the same time.

230

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 14:36

Species, I have a 10th keeper and will probably be acquiring a later pick than the current last pick I have. I hope that doesn't cause any issues.

231

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 15:03

This has happened before - you can use the 10th on your very last pick, or even trade for a later pick. The pick doesn't go away until it passes.

232

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 18:01

230: But I will hold off for now. Don't have to finish it until later.....just getting ahead of the game and entering all of them now.

233

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Mar 09, 2018, 19:59

Supplemental 1.18 available for 2019 1st round pick.

234

Blue hen
ID: 410452818
Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 10:18

Looking to package 1.20 with some or all of my prospect picks or prospects for a good closer.

235

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 14:26

The Prospect Draft thread is now up and open for business. The first 3 up are: bmd, Thumper (I have his queue) and mjd. They may choose to pick at any time, although NO ONE is required to make a pick until tomorrow when the clock starts.

Good luck to all!!

236

Bean
ID: 304422310
Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 16:08

Though its no big deal, figured I would let ya know.

While prepping for prospect draft I noticed that at the top of this thread you have darkside with a prospect: 44.03 Reynaldo Lopez, SP, CHW

It should be 40.03 vs 44.03. Maybe correct it when you post the final version of this year's draft.

237

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Sat, Mar 10, 2018, 16:23

Thanks Bean.

Ends up immaterial, as darkside 10th keepered him, so I have already removed him from the ESPN constitution.

I appreciate ALL corrections, however. I look at all of this stuff so much that it ends up looking like "The Matrix" on my screen, and I make more than a few errors.....so I need the whole league to be on the lookout.

238

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 14:16

* Trade Announcement *

Species receives:

Meatwads' 1.17 prospect pick

Meatwads recieves:

Zack Godley

239

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Sun, Mar 11, 2018, 14:21

<238> Confirmed

240

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:26

Excellent job everyone on the Prospect Draft. We are in the third and final round and have only 4 picks to go. Honestly the picks have all been pretty spot on - nobody really fell out of the first round that shouldn't have. Kudos to all

By request, I am opening the Supplemental Draft early to allow for queue building. This is also a CRITICAL time to review the draft picks for accuracy. I have needed to make corrections to the draft grid, so I make mistakes!

I enter all of the trades one-by-one in Draftime, so hopefully my accuracy is better this go-around.

As noted above in this thread, this year I realized that I could enter 10th keepers as replacement for picks in the draft. With the exception of bmd, I have entered those 10th keepers in their corresponding places at the end of the Supplemental Draft. This will GREATLY speed up the end of the draft and avoid confusion. It will also help with roster management during the draft.

Below are our trades involving the 2018 Supplemental Draft for your review. Please look at your list of picks and compare it to draftime. Thank you!!

These managers have had their 2018 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-16 Great One receives WG's 5th for his 9th (Grichuk / P-Pick)
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 1st and 4th for his last 2 (Blackmon)
3-23-16 mjd receives WG's 7th for his 10th (Plouffe)
3-23-16 mjd receives Species' 6th for his 9th ('16 pick swap)
6-08-16 Great One receives Species' 5th for his 10th (R. Davis)
6-11-16 bmd receives ttucowboy's 6th for his 12th (Cingrani)
6-15-16 mjd receives WG's 6th for his 14th (Kang, Pearce)
7-20-16 Tree receives WG's 8th (Jones/Wainwright)
3-10-17 slizz receives mjd's 3rd for his 14th (Ray)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st for his 11th (2017 Supp Pick)
3-20-17 Tree receives Species' 1st for his 6th (2017 pick swap)
3-22-17 mjd receives slizz' 4th for his last (Heyward)
3-24-17 bmd receives Fosten's 6th for his 10th (2017 pick swap)
3-24-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 14th (2017 pick swap)
4-02-17 bmd receives mjd's 3rd (via slizz) for his 8th (Treinen)
5-24-17 Guru receives a 3rd from Species for his 14th (Oh)
5-24-17 Tree receives 3.07 from Species for his 12th (Wacha)
6-13-17 Tosh receives GO's 4th for his 12th (Trumbo)
7-21-17 GO receives WG's 3rd for his last (Severino, Shaw / CMart)
7-25-17 WG receives slizz' 7th for his 9th (Kinsler)
8-05-17 Fosten receives Thumper's 3rd for his 9th (Meadows, p-picks)
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 2.19 for his 3.07 (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 4th for his 12th (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 slizz receives GO's 5.09 (Moncada/Acuna/Rodgers/picks)
2-23-18 darkside receives mjd's 2.01 for his 6.11 (Olson)
2-26-18 Khahan receives 6.03 and 7.19 from Species for his 13.16 and 14.16 (Conforto)

241

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:41

***Trade Announcement***

Khahan sends his round 3 prospect and R9 supplemental pick to BH
BH sends his R6 supplemental pick to Khahan

242

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:48

Confirmed. Uber rating 5 for Khahan - responsive, flexible, creative. Pleasure doing business with you.

243

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 12:51

Noted. Fire away!

244

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 13:04

In opening the supplemental draft a full day early, I want to stress that there is NO expectation or pressure to make picks at this time. We have not even finished the Prospect Draft yet, and teams do need some time to get their queues in order.

That said, if teams are prepared they are more than welcome to do so:

Some reminders / rules about our Supplemental Draft:

1) Draftime is accurate right now in terms of "removing" from the draft pool all of the prospects on our prospect list as well as the 10th keepers. Please note: without notice, Draftime will add new names to the pool. So, just because Fernando Tatis, Jr isn't in there now, he could be added between now and before our draft is completed and we miss it.

So, in terms of prospects, our prospect list and 10th keeper declarations take precedence over a name being shown available in Draftime that shouldnt be there. It is every managers responsibility to check those lists if there is any doubt about a players availability. If you make an incorrect pick, the draft moves on and you can correct it at any time.

2) All players are now free agents in ESPN. So, when you draft a player, it is your responsibility to pick up that player in ESPN! Some day I am going to develop my own Kangaroo Court penalty system and count how many managers dont pick up their players. Be a team player! You have a phone!! Don't be a lazy ass!!! I am going to name names, dammit.

Using the ESPN list as a way to gauge what players are available is an invaluable tool for our draft. Sure we all have a variety of lists we refer to, but having ESPN right there is important.

Unfortunately, while I have placed all of the 10th keepers on their respective teams, there is no easy way to filter our prospect list out of the ESPN available free agents. I know this is a source of consternation, but we work with what we have.

Please note: to be eligible to be drafted in our Supplemental Draft, our rules dictate that the player must be in the ESPN list of Free Agent players. So, there could be a name that shows available in Draftime that is NOT in the ESPN FA list. I'm not sure that has ever happened, but I assume it is possible.

3) Please be aware that managers will forget to pick up players and they will show available in ESPN.........but when you go to Draftime they show unavailable. Nothing we can do about that.

4) Please post any in-draft pick trades ASAP. We have 3 managers with Admin privileges in Draftime to accommodate this exact need. I am in meetings or traveling often so I cannot be the sole person to administer this.

Please post here or contact me privately with any questions. Good luck to you all, and happy drafting!!

245

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 13:16

2018 Supplemental Draft Grid

246

darkside
ID: 352231212
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 13:23

Sorry for p-draft delay was checking in but not paying attention to my round 3 draft position. I’ll go ahead and kickoff the supplemental.

247

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 13:25

246: while you are at it, please delete Trammell - he was taken at 1.07. Please re-pick!!

248

darkside
ID: 81492120
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 13:44

Repicked, but my session ID has changed and I can't delete the original 44.01. Apologies for not paying closer attention!

250

Bean
ID: 304422310
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 14:17

I know this is question for the end of last season, but the result of the lottery is a mystery to me....Has to be a record of some sort.

From above rules:

The Draft will be held prior to every season after Keepers are announced. A "NBA style" lottery will determine the top three selections.

What percentages do we use?

251

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 15:02

Thanks for a great P draft everyone! Has to be a record, having 3 of the last 6 picks in it. So excited to own Japan's best pitcher, the Astros real best prospect, and some guy who used to ball for the Lakers.

252

Guru
ID: 330592710
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 15:30

[250] Lottery percentages are patterned after the NBA.

The bottom team (with the most chances of selection) has a 25% chance of being selected for each pick. So the chances of not being picked for any of the top 3 slots are about 36%.

The next team has a 20% chance per pick. The chance of missing all of the top 3 slots is about 44%.

The per-pick odds for each subsequent team decline as follows:

3rd 14.8%
4th 10.9%
5th 8.1%
...
14th 0.5%

The results of the latest supplemental draft lottery were definitely way out on the tail.

Darkside had about a 4% chance of getting a top-3 pick. Tosh had about a 6% chance of getting a top-3 pick. and ttucowboy had about a 10% chance.

Pretty sure this is the most extreme result we ever had. But something like this was likely to happen sometime.

253

GO
ID: 14143919
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 19:53

If looking to pick up extra picks this year I may trade down and/or out if you can improve a round or two for next year.

254

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Mon, Mar 12, 2018, 23:54

I'll decide to trade this pick or play it by noonish Tuesday.

255

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 11:04

Sent you an email mjd.

256

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 12:28

Clock still does not start until tomorrow. That said, with 24 hours to make queues and craft strategies, I do want to encourage more progress today (and have NO issue with mjd marketing the pick or any delays to date) leading up to the clock being turned on.

Excellent progress and attention to the drafts so far. I appreciate everyone's attention.

257

Bmd
ID: 825715
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 13:39

I'll be MIA from about 4:30 ET to 9:30 ET. Hoping it gets to me before then. Will try I make a queue for 1.08 but no promises.

258

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 18:26

Hi everyone. I'm aware I'm up in the draft, but I have some trade talks I'm discussing. Currently waiting for the other manager to e-mail me back. Just want to make sure everyone knows I'm not asleep at the wheel.

259

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 19:53

Trade Announcement

GO trades :
1.11 - 2018
7th - 2019
Last - 2019

Meatwads trade :
Last - 2018
2nd - 2019
5th - 2019

260

GO
ID: 14143919
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 19:57

Trade confirmed. Picked Villar for Meatwads to keep things moving.

261

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 21:27

Trade Announcement
Fosten trades
1.17
8.17
Guru trades
1.15
10.15

262

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 21:28

Confirmed.

I have draftime admin capabilities, so I can process momentarily.

263

beastiemiked
ID: 481162721
Tue, Mar 13, 2018, 21:42

Looking to trade 9.05 and my last round pick in 2019 for your 9th round pick in 2019 and last pick in 2018.

264

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 10:09

Re: 241, 12.16 should come back to me from the Derek Fisher trade. It was in the original agreement but forgot to post. Khahan, please confirm.

265

Khahan
ID: 2911322610
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 11:20

264: Texting you BH because I have no idea what your post is referring to. could just be my old age catching up to me but I'm at a loss on this one.

266

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 11:41

I lied - it was 9.16, which was listed in the trade but didn't make it into the chart. I own 9.16, Khahan owns 6.20.

267

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 12:55

266: Actually, it is on my chart. I sent Guru and updated one like 15 minutes after sending him an old one.........and he posted the old one :)

It is correct in Draftime - 6.20 to Khahan and 9.16 to bh.

---------------------------

The clock has now officially started. Key rules governing the clock and the Supplemental Draft:

There is a 3 hour per draft pick time limit and a cumulative time limit of 12 hours. (Subject to change). You may not exceed 23 players. You may not drop a player (or add a non-drafted player if you are short) until waivers have been turned on. You may trade for extra picks and you may trade your excess picks as long as it is done before the preceeding pick has been made. If you make a duplicate pick, the draft will continue and you may correct that pick at any time. Once you have been skipped, you will continue to be skipped until you are caught up. If a clock runs out, the next person on the clock will be charged for any time before his pick. If you are skipped due to a pick or c clock, you may still post your selection at any time.

268

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 12:56

I have nuked record of the trades affecting the 2018 P-draft from the constitution. Posting here for posterity.

The following managers have had their 2018 Prospect Draft selections altered via trade:
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 2nd (Blackmon)
5-15-16 mjd receives Tosh's 1st (Tanaka)
1-14-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 1st (Darvish, etc)
3-13-17 Meatwads receives Species' 1st (Kimbrel)
3-13-17 Thumper receives blue hen's 1st (Archer/Kemp/Semien)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st (2017 1.03 supp)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 3rd (2017 1.12 supp)
2-08-18 Species receives his own 1st back (via Meatwads - Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 Thumper receives GO's 1st (Acuna/Rodgers/Moncada/Quintana/Hill/picks)
3-11-18 Species receives 1.17 (Fosten via Meatwads - Godley)

269

blue hen
ID: 5254718
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 13:15

Re: 268 and BH receives Khahan's 3rd (6.20 in s draft)

270

Guru
ID: 330592710
Wed, Mar 14, 2018, 13:53

[267] - sorry, I missed the updated version.

[245] grid is now updated, including the trades in [259] and [261]

271

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 18:03

Trade Announcement

GO Trades:
Zach Britton, RP, BAL
2020 2nd round supplemental pick
2020 5th round supplemental pick
2018 14th round supplemental pick

Thumper Trades
Adam Eaton, OF, WSH
Kole Calhoun, OF, LAA
2020 7th round supplemental pick
2020 14th round supplemental pick

272

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 19:42

although I'd love to own pick 5.09, but per #240 it belongs to slizz. can someone correct that in draftime?

273

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 21:28

272: Corrected. Thank you!

274

GO
ID: 565491620
Thu, Mar 15, 2018, 22:31

Trade confirmed.

275

Guru
ID: 330592710
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 10:30

FROM THE TREASURER:

Time to collect dues for the prize pool for 2018

For those in the pool, the annual charge is $15. The pool is distributed to the top 6 in the standings. Typically, the winner gets around $100, and 6th place gets $15, with the scale grading in between. Final determination of amounts depends on the number participating in the pool each year.

New teams in the league may wait one year before deciding to be in the pool. Of course, if you defer in your first year, you are ineligible for a prize in your first year. Starting in year #2, you must decide whether to be in or out. If you are in, you must remain in the pool each year going forward. If you ever decide to opt out in the future, you may no longer re-enter the pool.

Blue Hen is out of the pool.
I believe everyone else is in.

Some people have funds on account (from previous winnings) to cover their $15 dues for this year.

The following managers have enough funds on account to cover dues: Fosten, Khahan, Slizz, Species, WG, Guru
BMD has $7.50 on account, so owes only $7.50.
Meatwads owes $30, as his Hoops dues were deferred until the spring.
Everyone else owes $15: Bean, Darkside, Great One, Thumqer, mjd, Nerf, Pete N.,Tree, Tosh, Judy, Youngroman

If you think I have missed funds on account for you, please let me know, Otherwise, you may pay in one of these two ways:

PAYPAL: send to davehall@rotoguru2.com. (Recipient will probably appear as Uncommon Cents LLC.) Designate this as “send money to friends and family”, and mark the payment only as G20 baseball

CHECK via SNAIL MAIL: check can be sent to the address listed at the bottom of this page:
http://rotoguru2.com/gurupatron-info.html
If you snail mail, please tell me in advance so that I can mark you as tentatively paid until the check arrives.
Payments are due NOW. Please pay promptly so I don’t have to keep pestering you.

276

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 11:45

271: GO doesn't have a 14th round pick. His latest is 12th. Is that acceptable?

277

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 12:54

GO has advised via email he will substitute his last pick (12th) to satisfy his trade.

278

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 16:55

Trade Announcement
Fosten trades
2018 Last Pick
2019 4th Round Pick

GO trades
Steven Matz
2019 10th Round Pick

279

Bmd
ID: 825715
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 19:39

Open offer to the league. First one to accept on the board gets it.

I'll trade you 9.05 this year and my last pick next year for your last pick this year and a 10th round pick next year.

280

Tree
ID: 217372011
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 22:32

Noooooooooo... I really thought Winker would fall one more round...

281

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Fri, Mar 16, 2018, 22:44

Trade Announcement

WG gets Jessie Winker
8.01 2018
14th 2019

mjd gets
10.01 14.01 2018
4th 2019

282

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 13:03

Confirmed

283

slizz
ID: 39225119
Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 13:21

Heh - I would’ve taken winker with my 5th rd pick had I got to Khahan before BH as I would’ve selected in the p-draft.

284

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Sat, Mar 17, 2018, 21:38

8.01 belongs to WG.

I'll make the pick for him once he texts it to me.

285

Khahan
ID: 367431722
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 11:54

Aren't we supposed to be picking up players as we draft them?

286

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 12:00

I have been, but not everyone is. Makes it tough to find a player not yet picked.

287

Bmd
ID: 825715
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 12:17

If anyone wants 9.05, send me an offer asap. Just want a swap next year in return. Super cheap.

288

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 18:14

For a few upcoming picks ... I see 2 teams with a full 23-player lineup ... and we'll need to skip those picks.

9.05 - beastiemiked
9.07 - Mighty Meatwads

Bummer for Meatwads, since he just lost his starting SS for 80 games due to cheating.

289

Bmd
ID: 825715
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 20:13

Yep, skip me. Received no offers for the pick.

290

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 20:32

So ...

I have admin. I skipped Bmd because he gave a confirmation. Meatwads did not, so I had not skipped him yet.

Meatwads went ahead and picked player #24. Crawford, Brandon.

What should we do??

291

Tree
ID: 77532019
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 20:58

sorry about that missed pick. i guess i didn't realize the clock was on for the weekend.

292

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 21:44

Kind of a rush because I am 'on deck'.

Meatwads selected Brandon Crawford as player #24. It's a pick that should have been skipped. Crawford was #1 in my queue.

I don't feel comfortable as admin, removing Crawford from one roster, only to add him to mine, without input from the league.

But with a few "You go guy" from the league ... I'd feel better about it....

293

Species
ID: 102481820
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 21:48

290: The rules are clear. You cannot exceed 23 players.

The pick needs to be skipped and Crawford goes back to the pool. Bad luck for Meatwads....he could make a trade for a SS and trade Polanco away......

294

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Sun, Mar 18, 2018, 22:04

Thanks Commish.

I was not able to figure out how to skip a pick once there was a name attached. But I did find how to change it.

Meatwads are now the proud (and temporary) owner of "Rob Zastryzny, RP, CHN"

Since only Mrs. Zastryzny might draft that guy, and she is not a member of our league ... I though he would be a safe replacement.

295

Meatwads
ID: 221352816
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 08:53

It's all good guys. Thanks for catching that Tosh. I had the spot open for one last pick on Draftime, but after counting the players on my ESPN roster, I indeed have 23.

Shout out to Polanco for being a turd. I don't think I can survive losing the .310 OBP shortstop batting near the bottom of the lineup. The whole foundation of my team is in shambles now. #beatmeat

296

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 11:32

I have advised Tree that he has now exceeded his 12 hour Cumulative Clock. I am giving him 30 extra minutes to make this pick before he is skipped.

He avoided automatically being skipped by making up his last pick (where he was skipped) before this one.

297

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:03

Tree skipped. Next manager(s) up. He can make up this pick at any time.

298

Tree
ID: 77532019
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:16

because he's not in draftime, and i want all the comeback kid fireballers.

pick 10.03 Tim Lincecum, RP, TX (Tony Zych as placeholder in draftime)

299

Tree
ID: 77532019
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:23

i've never had clock issues before, so never actually paid attention to clock rules. totally my fault on this, and i know for next time.

sorry for holding up the draft.

300

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:23

298: Thank you for posting. That is perfectly legal. As outlined in my Supplemental Draft Reminders in post 240 above:
---------------
Please note: to be eligible to be drafted in our Supplemental Draft, our rules dictate that the player must be in the ESPN list of Free Agent players.
-----------------------

I probably should have clarified in my post that the player in question is NOT required to be in Draftime. But it has always been the rule that in order to be drafted the player must be in ESPN (or CBS back in the day.....).

301

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 12:46

Tree, if a player isn't listed at draftime, you can click "Add Player" when its your pick and type his name in.

302

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 21:52

I need to know more about pick 10.17 (Mondesi, Raul 2B KAN) by Fosten.

Is this the Raul Mondesi that retired in 2005?

Or is the pick really ...
Adalberto Mondesi, 2B, KC

303

GO
ID: 565491620
Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 23:56

That would be his son. And they are indeed both Raul.

304

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 11:12

That's it for me. My roster has 23.

305

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 11:44

Hey- I should have GO’s later 12th round pick but it doesn’t look like it’s mine, can an admin pls help? It’s the trade confirmed in <274>

306

Species
ID: 102481820
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 12:25

305 -- done

307

Thumqer
ID: 39230821
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 12:35

Thank you!

308

ttucowboy
ID: 7657213
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 13:37

My draft is finished. Please skip my last two picks. Thanks!

309

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 14:56

302 - Adalberto is Raul's middle name. Not to be confused with his brother Raul Jr who was a minor leaguer for Milwaukee and Tampa Bay from 2010-14.

310

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 15:53

302 - Interesting stuff about Mondesi I didn't know ...

Mondesi, 22, was originally known as Adalberto when he first signed with the Royals as a free agent in 2011. Upon his major-league debut during the 2015 World Series, he started going by Raul Mondesi, like his father, the former Dodgers star.

He dropped "Raul" this Winter, after his father, the mayor of San Cristóbal, Dominican Republic was thrown in prison for corruption in Sept. 2017.

His Baseball-Ref and Wikipedia pages both call him "Adalberto". The change appears to be official and permanent.

311

Tree
ID: 77532019
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 16:51

bonus fact: Adalberto Raul, son of Raul, also has a brother named, Raul, who played in the Brewers' organization.

312

Fosten
ID: 4097314
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 17:37

Trade Announcement
Fosten trades
12.17
2019 14th round pick
WG trades
14.18
2019 12th round pick

This is for the current pick on the clock. Need an admin. Thanks.

313

Guru
ID: 330592710
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 17:48

just processed it

314

youngroman
ID: 19238238
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 19:34

just noticed: Colin Moran, picked by WG at 12.18, is a prospect of bmd.

315

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 19:53

Crap, sorry

316

WG
Donor
ID: 35338278
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 19:57

Can I have Leonys Martin instead?

318

Tosh
Dude
ID: 057721710
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 20:59

Pick 12.18 has been replaced with Leonys Martin.

Attn: Nerfherders -- Pick 13.12 (Yoshihisa Hirano) is my prospect.

319

mjd
Dude
ID: 501381415
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 21:07

Please skip 14.01

320

Species
ID: 102481820
Tue, Mar 20, 2018, 21:40

318:he is taking Brian Shaw,RP,COL instead.

I have removed Shaw from Draftime to avoid duplication. Mjd--pick him up please.

321

Nerfherders
ID: 2211442615
Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 00:35

Sorry for the confusion. My draft is also complete.

322

Species
SuperDude
ID: 07724916
Wed, Mar 21, 2018, 12:09

THE DRAFT IS OVER!

Excellent draft, everyone. We are done a week before the season starts. We must have had a really good pace, because we started 5 days earlier (by comparison) than last year but finished 7 days earlier overall.

Having a little time between is important for administrative duties. Tosh generously takes our draft and re-enters it into ESPN, which allows all of the undrafted players to be placed on waivers. Waivers run for 48 hours so this will give teams plenty of time to get their team in order, consider waiver pickups and be set for Opening Day.

NOTE: No pickups can be made until waivers are run.

ODDITY: I drafted Franchy Cordero, OF, SD at 13.16, and I know I entered him into Draftime. But for some reason this morning it shows that as a missed pick. No idea what happened.

I am starting a new Regular Season thread with a cleaned up constitution. I am nuking the 2018 Supplemental draft trades but once again placing them here for posterity.

See you on the other thread.

These managers have had their 2018 Supplemental Draft selections altered via trade:
3-19-16 Great One receives WG's 5th for his 9th (Grichuk / P-Pick)
3-20-16 bmd receives WG's 1st and 4th for his last 2 (Blackmon)
3-23-16 mjd receives WG's 7th for his 10th (Plouffe)
3-23-16 mjd receives Species' 6th for his 9th ('16 pick swap)
6-08-16 Great One receives Species' 5th for his 10th (R. Davis)
6-11-16 bmd receives ttucowboy's 6th for his 12th (Cingrani)
6-15-16 mjd receives WG's 6th for his 14th (Kang, Pearce)
7-20-16 Tree receives WG's 8th (Jones/Wainwright)
3-10-17 slizz receives mjd's 3rd for his 14th (Ray)
3-19-17 bmd receives ttucowboy's 1st for his 11th (2017 Supp Pick)
3-20-17 Tree receives Species' 1st for his 6th (2017 pick swap)
3-22-17 mjd receives slizz' 4th for his last (Heyward)
3-24-17 bmd receives Fosten's 6th for his 10th (2017 pick swap)
3-24-17 Meatwads receives Fosten's 7th for his 11th (2017 pick swap)
3-25-17 Meatwads receives WG's 7th for his 14th (2017 pick swap)
4-02-17 bmd receives mjd's 3rd (via slizz) for his 8th (Treinen)
5-24-17 Guru receives a 3rd from Species for his 14th (Oh)
5-24-17 Tree receives a 3rd from Species for his 12th (Wacha)
6-13-17 Tosh receives GO's 4th for his 12th (Trumbo)
7-21-17 GO receives WG's 3rd for his last (Severino, Shaw / CMart)
7-25-17 WG receives slizz' 7th for his 9th (Kinsler)
8-05-17 Fosten receives Thumper's 3rd for his 9th (Meadows, p-picks)
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 2.19 for his 3.07 (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-08-18 Meatwads receives Species' 4th for his 12th (Gordon/Cruz/E5)
2-09-18 slizz receives GO's 5.09 (Moncada/Acuna/Rodgers/picks)
2-23-18 darkside receives mjd's 2.01 for his 6.11 (Olson)
2-26-18 Khahan receives 6.03 and 7.19 from Species for his 13.16 and 14.16 (Conforto)
3-13-18 Meatwads receives GO's 1.11 for his 10.07 (pick swap)
3-13-18 Guru receives Fosten's 1.17 and 8.17 for 1.15 and 10.15 (pick swap)
3-16-18 Thumper receives GO's 12th (Britton/picks)
3-16-18 Great One receives Fosten's last (Matz, 2019 picks)
3-16-18 WG gets mjd's 8.01 for 10.01 and 14.01 (Winker, 2019 pick)
3-20-18 WG gets Fosten's 12.17 for his 14.18 (2019 pick)

Forum: basePage 20449Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2018 Preseason Discussion

Forum: base
Page 20449
Subject: Gurupie 20 - 2018 Preseason Discussion