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Forum: foot
Page 3747
Subject: RIFC - Qualifying League

Posted by: dgrooves - [513181020] Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 19:55

Im starting [one of] the RIFC Qualifying league[s]. Ive just created a league on Yahoo, but I figure we can set up all the parameters once we fill the league. Id prefer 12 or maybe 14 teams, so post in this thread if you're interested.

For the draft, I plan on creating a Survior league over at Xpert Leagues. The draft will be automated, we dont have to worry about agreeing on one of Yahoo's limited number of draft windows, and we get a free Survivor league out of it.

Peter N.
Donor
ID: 257161713
Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 20:01

I'm interested.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 20:02

Oh, this is not going to be first come, first served. Only quality managers who are mature (i.e. not trolls) are welcome. In other words, people PGunn [or JerryLewis, Deadeyes, Tranquility, ... whatever you like to call yourself] are not going to be allowed to join.

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 20:05

I'm a bit surprised you weren't on the original FIBC list, as you are one of the few here supplying additional statistical data for football. (Side note, then again COUGH I can think of COUGH someone COUGH COUGH who has been bypassed COUGH who has supplied stuff for all sports COUGH COUGH :)

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 22:48

Very interested.

THK

MadDOG
ID: 8636920
Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 23:01

DGrooves is one of the better football guys on these boards. Interesting that GURU didn't pick him.

MadDOG
ID: 8636920
Fri, Jul 09, 2004, 23:05

CC Soldiers was in the top 10 in the TSN game I think last year. Looks like he's not in GURU's league either.

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 00:01

Although you can make the case TSN skills may not transfer to h2h or roto leagues well...of course in CC's case I am sure that isn't true, but still possible.

THK

wiggs
Donor
ID: 4991311
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 00:07

i would be interested in playing

kev
ID: 3155515
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 01:21

I would also be interested. Though I do not play TSN games, I have been successful at the Swirve game in the past.

Doug
ID: 57352917
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 04:55

Me three.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 09:26

Ok, so far the following Gurupies are interested:

Peter N.
TaRhEElKiD
wiggs
kev
Doug
KKB (???)

I you guys leave your emails, I'll send out an email at some point this weekend.

WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 10:08

I am also definitly interested.

dwfffan
ID: 3867516
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 14:05

I will play if you need another person.

youngroman
ID: 206491016
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 17:49

I am interested and would represent the 1st time Eurobowl champion Vienna Vikings, they won today 53-20 against Bergamo Lions.

Tree
ID: 32645819
Sat, Jul 10, 2004, 23:10

if it's serious, then i'm in. being that i kicked all the political gurupies asses this year, but didn't quite make it to the big show, i guess i need to prove my worth again.. lol..

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 08:32

What wouldnt be serious about this?

Tree
ID: 32645819
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 08:55

sorry dgrooves, didn't mean any offense by that.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 09:13

Then what did you mean?

Tree
ID: 32645819
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 09:46

it meant i've gotten involved in way too many leagues that didn't turn out to be serious.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 10:01

I dont want to get into a whole things here, but the RotoGuru Invitational Leagues are serious, the qualifying leagues are serious, Im serious, and all the owners who have expressed interest so far are serious.

What other leagues have you been in? In another thread, you said last year was the first year you played in a Yahoo football league. I thought this was an odd comment because Yahoo leagues are only superficially [scoring system] different from other draft leagues.

Tree
ID: 32645819
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 10:43

dgrooves - at this point, i've played in plenty of leagues, in football, baseball, and basketball...

i've also been in some leagues where people purport them to be serious, and they are not.

perhaps "serious" was not a good choice of words - "active" would probably have been more appropriate.

it's difficult to invest time in a league, only to have, as the season winds down, people abandon their teams, not respond to trade offers, and drop people into the free agency pool that have no business being there.

i've played in leagues with some of the people who have already volunteered for this one - and once again, to clarify, this was not a comment on any one person at all, but rather a general comment.

Baldwin
ID: 5544766
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 10:48

I am a serious manager and interested.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 11:45

Tree, I knew exactly what you meant and I am not taking this personally. Rather I view post 15 as an insult to all of us who have expressed interest so far. Like you, I have played in league with many of the people who have responeded to this thread; not one has bailed on a team.

I guess I just find it amusing that youre questioning the dedication of a group of owners who are trying to set up a league before training camps start.

BTW, would you have asked Guru if his league was serious if you have received an invite?

Toral
Sustainer
ID: 2111201313
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 12:23

I am interested in playing.

Tree
ID: 32645819
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 13:02

dgrooves - you are taking it personally. if you're viewing it as insult, you're taking it personally.

i'm sorry you feel that way. it was never meant as any sort of insult or jab at you, or anyone else who has posted in this thread.

there's nothing more i can say on the matter.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 15:03

I knew I worded that part poorly. You said the the post was not a comment on any one person; I was trying to say that I didnt think that you were singling me out.

My point is simply that, to me, this is one of those times when it can be insulting to even imply something may be something its not.

Why imply that, more than 2 months before the season kicks off, a group of well-known Gurupies, signing up to play in a RotoGuru invitational league, would be anything less than dedicated, active owners?

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 18:27

On second thought, theres really no reason to send out an email. I havent got anything new to say just yet and any discussion that ensues probably belongs here for now.

Interested managers:
dgrooves
Peter N.
RSF (?)
TaRhEElKiD
wiggs
kev
Doug
WiddleAvi
dwfffan
youngroman
Tree
Baldwin

smallwhirled
ID: 58521513
Sun, Jul 11, 2004, 18:40

interested

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 01:34

dgrooves, go ahead and scratch me.

Mike D
Sustainer
ID: 41831612
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 08:10

You need to tell him where.........

RecycledSpinalFluid
Dude
ID: 204401122
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 11:40

LOL.

"...from the list of interested managers."

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 14:07

interested

loki
Dude
ID: 4211201420
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 16:49

Interested

Pops
ID: 194442122
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 19:48

Interested

holt
ID: 35514118
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 21:26

I may be too late for this league. There will probably be more than one qualifying league so count me in on one of them.

holt
ID: 35514118
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 21:32

oops - forgot my e-mail.

loki
Dude
ID: 4211201420
Mon, Jul 12, 2004, 22:44

forgot my e-mail also.

Twarpy
Leader
ID: 386242821
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 01:52

I'd join

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 3531815
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 09:28

I'd like to play.

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 09:29

e-mail

Doug
ID: 57352917
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 13:01

My email.

Art of Monk
ID: 32531249
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 16:56

You could count me in, if you take me again.

Pops
ID: 194442122
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 19:22

Here

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 19:35

Update:

dgrooves
Peter N.
Tarheelkid
wiggs
kev
Doug
WiddleAvi
dwfffan
youngroman
Tree
Baldwin
Toral
smallwhirled
Trip
loki
Pops
Holt
Twarpy
beastiemiked
Art of Monk

Thats 20 interested managers so far...too many for one league (and Im sure there are more people who will be interested).

Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 20:35

at this point, the league could easily be split into two...

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Tue, Jul 13, 2004, 21:09

Yea, I meant that there should now be a second league...probably should have said that explicitly.

Slowhand
SuperDude
ID: 56744223
Wed, Jul 14, 2004, 00:49

Love to do one also....

Tree
Donor
ID: 599393013
Wed, Jul 14, 2004, 06:54

dgrooves - if we can get 24 or 28 people, maybe we can split this into 2 leagues - i think 12 teams is solid for football - maybe 14?

i need to-read Guru's parameters (i mean, i'm not even sure if we're using Yahoo), and perhaps we'll find a good commish in this bunch (perhaps me, but, like i said, depending on the parameters - i'd prefer not to take charge if we're not using Yahoo), to take the second Qualifying League.

dgrooves
ID: 12831011
Wed, Jul 14, 2004, 12:17

I think we've got a little leway with respect to our parameters. We should be very similar to the RIFC, but I dont think we need to mirror theirs exactly.

I can say for sure that there wont be things like minimum/maximum roster requirements or team QBs in the league I run.

smallwhirled
ID: 58521513
Wed, Jul 14, 2004, 12:26

Deleted my other email post. New one.

pogophiles
Leader
ID: 155452911
Wed, Jul 14, 2004, 13:14

I'm interested.

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Wed, Jul 14, 2004, 17:35

We could probably split up by using individual's preference for IDP/Team D. It sounds like Guru is leaning toward Fanball. I have set up a league using their commissioner service in the past and would be happy to co-commish a Team D league. I have played with IDP in the past and hated it! I have been overloaded at work and would need a little help. But luckily (or unluckily), Fanball isn't blocked at my work like most other sites.

Species
Leader
ID: 7724916
Fri, Jul 16, 2004, 12:59

ME ME ME

BoNkA
ID: 326291317
Sat, Jul 17, 2004, 14:19

While I haven't really been around the forums recently, I am also interested. A few of you guys may remember my name from a while back, and I know Peter N does since we're also in a 'Rotoguru' keeper league. But just let me know either way, thanks.

On a side note, I prefer IDP over team defense.

wazaaap_guy
ID: 3959822
Sat, Jul 17, 2004, 20:28

Im interested as well.

The Beezer
ID: 25530915
Sat, Jul 17, 2004, 21:53

Interested.

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Tue, Jul 20, 2004, 09:17

Any thoughts regarding splitting based on Team D / IDP preference?

BoNkA
ID: 326291317
Tue, Jul 20, 2004, 16:26

Shouldn't all the leagues be set up the same? It would make the most sense if people are competing to grab a spot in the main league.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Tue, Jul 20, 2004, 18:58

Any thoughts regarding splitting based on Team D / IDP preference?

I think its a good idea, but I dont think we should force one league to use IDPs and one to use team Ds at this point.

Shouldn't all the leagues be set up the same? It would make the most sense if people are competing to grab a spot in the main league.

I dont see why they would need to be identical. Similar, sure, but if we dont like the way they've chosen part of their rules, we dont have to copy them.

Doug
ID: 57352917
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 16:16

I'm down with whatever, but my .02 is that I would prefer to be in a league whose rules are identical to the main league.

Personally I may prefer other rulesets, but that's what all my other fantasy football leagues are for. In this particular league I am _specifically_ trying to qualify for RotoGuru's league, and as such I would like to play by the same set of rules if at all possible.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 18:32

I guess I can see why you guys feel that way, but I must say that I really dislike some of the rules their discussing over in the other thread. Rules like minimum/maximum roster requirements and team QBs only serve to help/protect weaker owners. I also would not like to play with both IDPs and team Ds.

I havent played in a Rotoguru Invitational league before, but I cant see how playing in or winning a qualifying league with identical rules increases your chances of being invited next year.

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 18:36

I like IDP and team D so either way is fine with me; however, I 100% DO NOT LIKE TEAM QBs. I don't think it is a great idea nor should it be used in the Qualifying Leagues (or the main league for that matter).

Whatever is decided I will play with...

THK

Peter N.
Donor
ID: 257161713
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 18:40

dgrooves, IIRC, winners of the qualifying leagues get an invite into Guru's league the following year. So, I'd think it'd be essential to have the qualifying leagues as identical as possible to Guru's league.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 18:45

...but Ive already said that about our rules. I just dont see why they need to be identical.

Toral
ID: 296551812
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 18:46

Best thing is to send the proposed points scheme to Guru and see if it is "close enough" to qualify. No need to speculate when you may be able to find out directly.

Toral

The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Wed, Jul 21, 2004, 19:58

I'd go with what the man himself said in the original thread:

"Those leagues should be similar in structure to the RIFC league, but do not need to be exactly the same. In particular, I realize that some qualifying leagues will probably be run on a free site such as Yahoo, and that may limit some of the options."

I'd say Toral's thought is a good one as well, but I think as long as we're close, we're good.

youngroman
ID: 221118186
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 10:42

I think most qualifying leagues will be set up in yahoo where you are limited in scoring and roster configuration, so it could happen that this leagues are not identical but very close.

current yahoo-limitations (based on discussion in RIFL-thread):
a) 2-pt.-conversion pass (1) vs. recv, rush (2)
b) IDP + D combined not available
c) no special team slot

my thoughts on the IDP vs. D vs. IDP+D:
i'd prefer using IDP (3-5 players) because with D your active roster would be only 9 slots, if one of those slots get injured or plays poorly or don't get the ball you're likely to lose this week, the more IDP-slots you get this 'luck'-factor is minimized. also with IDP you have no problem to include return yards and TD

if the decision is to use D, then there comes the discussion if special team points should be counted into D-pts. ideally i'd say there should also be a ST-slot where all the return yds, return TD, blocked kicks should be counted. but this ST-slot is very rarely available.

IDP+D should not be used because this can result in double points/zero points if you have a D and an IDP on that D. only stat the would make a D-scoring different are the allowed points, all other stats are covered by IDP.

my ranking is:
1. 4 IDP
2. D + ST
3. D (including ST pts)
4. 3 IDP + D

some other thoughts:
1) do not include points for assisted tackles because that stat depends heavily on the NFL-scorer
2) TD points: why not use the default scoring? if the TD is worth 6pts in the NFL and for RB/WR it should be worth 6pts for the QB too.
3) missed FG/PAT: do not count negative points because if the kicker misses the FG/PAT he already lost points (3 or 1) because of the miss. and most of the time it is not the kickers fault because of errors by the snapper and/or holder.
4) bonus points for long FG: I would do it, but only for 50+ yds because 40+ is what you can expect from a good NFL-kicker.

Art of Monk
ID: 32531249
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 11:42

I am done with whatever, but I think some these depends on the size of the league. If we do 12 team league, I think Team Def is fine but if go to a 14 team league IDP. I see some huge advantages to go with a team QB especially if we have a league with more than 12.

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 12:05

It doesn't appear that the main league has decided on the scoring / defense issues. I played in two leagues last year on Yahoo. I played in 4 Fanball-Exit 42 leagues and 1 Fanball-Commissioner League. This year I will probably only participate in one Yahoo league and happily pay for the competition/service which Fanball offers. Until Yahoo resolves their waiver wire process I will waste my time in those leagues. The Sunday Ticket is the best thing since boobs. I want to watch the games and not have to worry about running to the computer everytime a starting RB/QB goes down so that I can snatch up his backup, that is unless somebody already has. Fanball also includes real-time scoring with their fees. Like I said I would rather watch the games than check the scores of my teams. I'll do that before the Monday night game.

Anyways, there is my Fanball/Sunday ticket plug again. Fanball does offer any league configuration that the RIFC comes up with. I have a strong dislike for IDPs, and would rather dedicate my preseason research to the format which I will be using for the rest of my leagues.

So this appears to be Guru's call as to whether or not he will accept a qualifying league which has the capability to match the RIFC's format but simply chooses not to.

Pops
ID: 526451614
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 12:35

I'm fine with any rule/scoring system that is up for consideration.

Just let me know where and when to sign up.

youngroman
ID: 59242611
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 14:25

Trip, this yahoo-middle-of-the-game-pickups-issue needs to be addressed too. I made some suggestions in the initial RIFL thread. I don't know if it could be easily done by the commish but I would do something like:

D1 = day of the first game of the week

D1 noon - Monday midnight: no FA pickup phase (trades are possible, but no other pickups)
early Tuesday morning: put all FA on 2 day waivers (thanksgiving would need a 1 day period)
Tue/Wed: waiver phase (thanksgiving only Tue)
end of waiver phase - D1 noon: FA pickup phase (to address positions you don't get via waivers)

all the commish has to do is put all players on waivers and undo all pickups that were made in the no FA pickup phase.

this process would work like a normal market. if you have the rights and want a player badly, pick him from waivers, or gamble a bit and take him later in the week by free agency (if still available)

Da Bomb
ID: 22411422
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 15:08

I'm interested.

Da Bomb
ID: 22411422
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 15:18

I'm interested.

Doug
ID: 57352917
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 18:35

I cant see how playing in or winning a qualifying league with identical rules increases your chances of being invited next year.

That's not the point. It's not to "increase my chances of being invited next year"... it's just the priniciple of it. The main purpose of these leagues will be specifically to qualify for RIFC, and as such I WANT to play by RIFC's rules... period. Not to increase my chances, but just on principle. They don't drive Stock Cars during Indy 500 qualifiers.

So, if I'm trying to qualify for league A, I want to play in a league that is identical (or as close as possible) to league A. And if I'm trying to qualify for league B in the same year, I also want to be in a league with rules as close as possible to league B. And if I personally really like some other set of rules, I'll do that in leagues C, D, and E... on my own time.

Let me put it another way...

- If someone dislikes the rules of the RIFC league and they don't want to play by them, then why are they trying to qualify for that league?
- Since you're going to have to play by those rules if and when you qualify... why try to qualify at all?

I'm not intending to be unnecessarily argumentative or anything, and I'm not addressing this a dgrooves in particular because others have expressed similar sentiments... I'm just genuinely curious as to the motivation for managers to want to qualify for a league whose rules they prefer not to play by.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 18:41

Doug, those are very good points, and certainly ones Ive been thinking about lately. I started this thread right after Guru announced the RIFC league [before the rules discussion really got going].

Personally, I really dislike some of the rules they're discussing over there, some so much that I may not want to play in the Rotoguru Invitational leagues at all.

Although there's always the hope they'll change their rules after year one.

TB
Leader
ID: 31811922
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 20:26

Any of you could have easily been invited to the RIFC league. With only 14 slots, lots of people had to be left out. With that said, I know I value everyone's input on league scoring parameters and rules and would like to see more people provide their opinion in the other thread. I feel confident that Guru feels the same because he posted as much. Seven or eight slots will be open for the following season and your input now will help shape the league you will be playing in next year.

Personally, I don't like using both Team D and IDP. One or the other please. I have stated my opinion and reasoning behind it. I don't like minimum/maximum roster requirements and it doesn't look like a big push was made for that anyway. It was mentioned maybe once. I don't like team QBs and didn't see a push for that either. Both are a hinderance to draft strategy and overall management of a fantasy team. It is the type of thing you would see in a league with an auto draft and a bunch of novice players.

Please, please, please share your opinions on how you think scoring should be in the other thread.

Trip
ID: 14417218
Thu, Jul 22, 2004, 22:04

I think that the main purposes of the Rotoguru Invitational leagues is to help the people on the forums get ideas for their drafts. I also think that the majority of people play in Defense only leagues.

Given that this may be a more hardcore fantasy audience, I may be wrong in this assumption. How many people are regular participants in IDP leagues?

Bandos
ID: 116421912
Sun, Jul 25, 2004, 10:26

I am also interested, though I have only played TSN football.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Jul 25, 2004, 11:17

I think that the main purposes of the Rotoguru Invitational leagues is to help the people on the forums get ideas for their drafts.

I hope this isnt true, or maybe Tree was right in quesitoning the seriousness of these leagues? Are Rotoguru Invitational leagues just tune-ups or practice leagues?

youngroman
ID: 206491016
Sun, Jul 25, 2004, 12:16

I think this leagues are serious for the managers involved and interesting for the others because of the public drafts in this forum and the explanation of the draft picks afterwards

Trip
ID: 14417218
Mon, Jul 26, 2004, 00:39

If I could I would revise my sentence to read that I think that one of the main purposes of the Rotoguru Invitational leagues is to help the people on the forums get ideas for their drafts.

I used the information in the RIHC to win my only basketball league this year. The RIBC draft rationales amount to 100+ pages and over 45,000 words. I think it would be hard to find a better draft breakdown on the net. I am having a hard time hanging in there in the league, but I doubt that even the winner of the league is winning every league they are in. This is not an ultimate championship of fantasy sports. I felt that the RIBC was an opportunity to contribute to the Gurupie community but I hope I haven't set anyone back too far.

That being said, I do have to say that I voted for SLG and OBP instead of the normal 5x5 criteria used in most fantasy baaeball leagues. In retrospect, no matter of my current standing, I would say that this is my biggest regret in this league.

I still feel like a lurker on these boards and appreciate the respect the people have for each other here. I regret having opened this can of worms and should have waited for the RIFL to determine its scoring criteria. I would still push for them to use a non-IDP format. If you don't use the boards for input into your fantasy drafts...more power to you (I've got a league I would like you to join).

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Mon, Jul 26, 2004, 07:59

If you don't use the boards for input into your fantasy drafts...more power to you (I've got a league I would like you to join).

Sign me up. No offense to the Guru or any regular posters here, but this is not the best place to get FF info on the net, nor is it close to the best FF board on the net.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Mon, Jul 26, 2004, 18:49

Does anyone know why Guru invoked "Guru Privilege" to force the RIFC to use both team D and IDP? Ive never played in a league with both of them and I really dont see why using both is appealing.

Doug
ID: 57352917
Mon, Jul 26, 2004, 19:00

Re: Post #83 - Personally, almost all of the leagues that I play in use IDPs (7 leagues). The only ones that use Team D are PSC (where draft strategy is of minimal relevance), the Gurupie 24-team league, and then casual Yahoo! leagues that I just play for kicks with my friends, co-workers, etc... so in terms of wanting to glean information from the RIFC draft and boards, my .02 is that I'm far more interested in IDP commentary than I am Team D commentary.

In fact, the main use of Team D info IMHO is to gauge which defenses have improved/worsened relative to last year, so I can better predict "matchups" for my offensive players, rather than for the purposes of drafting Team D itself (and for that reason, I'm glad they're using both in RIFC!). Just my .02 They need to get started though... one of my drafts is over and we're well into the free agency bidding wars!!! =-)

loki
Dude
ID: 4211201420
Wed, Jul 28, 2004, 09:04

dgrooves: at this point there are quite a few gurupies(rough count, 25) interested in participating. will you be tme commissioner of more than one league? if not, will someone volunteer to do this?

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Wed, Jul 28, 2004, 18:51

Im not going to commish a league Im not in, so someone else will have to step up. Once we get another commish, I figure we can split up into leagues, iron out the rules, and set a draft date.

youngroman
ID: 59242611
Thu, Jul 29, 2004, 15:10

I reviewed Gurus latest set of proposed rules for RIFL.

main rules look fine. differences if yahoo is used:
(1) no pts for ret-attempts (if used)
(2) one category for ret-yardage (including PR+KR), we have to use a different ratio (1/15 ?)
(3) no ret-points for IDP which has nearly no effect because last year only 2 notebale IDP players (Azumah, Buchanon) got return yardage
(4) no offense-pts for IDP (would be no big difference)
(5) 2-pt conversion scoring different for pass(1) vs. rush/recv(2) (if used)
(6) no doubleheader (if used)
(7) different playoff-type, top 8 W/L-record advance
(8) free agents have to be set manually on waivers each week (if this is a difference to RIFL)

I would do a commish for one of the qualifying leagues, but have to say that it would be my first league where I would be the commish and that I am from Europe which could lead to larger response times because of the time difference, so if there is someone who has more experience step forward and I do a step backward.

here an alphabetical list of interested managers (28 so far):
Art of Monk, Baldwin, Bandos, beastiemiked, BoNkA, Da Bomb, dgrooves, Doug, dwfffan, holt, kev, loki, Peter N., pogophiles, Pops, Slowhand, smallwhirled, Species, TaRhEElKiD, The Beezer, Toral, Tree, Trip, Twarpy, wazaaap_guy, WiddleAvi, wiggs, youngroman

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Fri, Jul 30, 2004, 10:12

Remove me from the list of interested managers. Good luck to all.

Doug
ID: 57352917
Fri, Jul 30, 2004, 23:02

The differences posted above for using Yahoo seem relatively minor to me, ideally I'd like the rules to be as similar as possible, but weighing the convenience of a free well-known site like Yahoo vs. getting it "exactly" right... well, I'd say this is close enough for me.

So, I'd be willing to commish a RQFL on Yahoo (I'm guessing we'll end up with 3 or more leagues... some people probably aren't even checking the boards just yet). I was thinking slow draft at first, but actually a live draft might be really nice (say 90 seconds per pick max, just bang it all out at once in a few hours worth of time).

Coordinating many people's schedules can be tough, so I'm just going to define three distinct times and see if enough people can make it to any one of them for a live draft... should take about 4 hours.

1 - Sunday August 15th at 10am PST (1pm EST)
or
2 - Thursday August 19th at 6pm PST (9pm EST)
or
3 - Sunday August 22nd at 4pm PST (7pm EST)

Send me an email if you are interested in participating in this live RQFL draft... and let me know which days (1, 2, and/or 3) you would be willing and able to commit to.

At this point I'm only looking for people willing to commit to the full 4 hours or so (14 managers, 20 rounds, 280 picks, average 1 minute per pick = 4 hours and 20 mins.) If we don't have enough for a live, then I'll re-post here to get managers for a slow message board draft instead.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Jul 31, 2004, 08:12

Well Ive had a few realizations lately. First of all, the survivor leagues at Xpert Leagues only allow 16 players, so it doesnt seem like the draft could be held in the way I had planned. Second, Yahoo's waiver wire process sucks. Any player that isnt dropped [waived] is a free agent, so whoever gets online first will be able to pick up the D. Davis' and R. Johnsons of this year. Id prefer a more traditional wavier wire system but I dont have the free time to do such a system by hand. This leaves one of the leagues with two options: host the league on Yahoo but get another commish or find another site to host the league.

I have no problem stepping down as a commish if someone has a desire to commish and will implement the waiver wire system by hand. However, I have found another site that hosts leagues for free, but I have no idea how reliable it is. The waiver wire system there is a little unusual and I'll post it in the next post.

Im also considering having the league hosted at Xpert Leagues and paying the hosting fee myself. That would make for a much better experience in my opinion.

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Jul 31, 2004, 08:13

Waiver wire process:

First, you can make Free Agent Pickups work 1 of 3 ways: 1) "Free For All", which means people can make F/A pickups anytime they want, 2) Pickups go in reverse order of last week's results, and 3) Pickups go in reverse order of total standings. 2 & 3 are round-based. You set a round time, and each player will have that long to make their pick (kinda like a live draft, just with much longer rounds). Picks start at 8:00am the day after the last game, and pause at midnight; resuming 8:00am the next day. So, suppose you set the round time to 4 hours. What would happen is:

The lowest scoring player (based on #2 or #3 above) would pick from 8:00am - 12:00pm Tuesday. The next lowest scoring player would pick from 12:00pm - 4:00pm. Etc..

Free Agent pickups can be made at any time, except during game times.

Pancho Villa
Sustainer
ID: 533817
Sun, Aug 01, 2004, 22:57

I realize I'm late on this, but if you need another team, keep me in mind. Many of us played in KKB's "Goin Deep" league last year.

100

smallwhirled
ID: 58521513
Mon, Aug 02, 2004, 12:23

Take my name out of the mix. I'm already kinda busy with my other leagues. Thanks.

101

Bandos
ID: 466213116
Tue, Aug 03, 2004, 18:15

Doug - sent you an email. What is the status? Thanks
for commishing and organizing.

102

pogophiles
Leader
ID: 155452911
Tue, Aug 03, 2004, 18:16

Please remove my name from the list. Thanks and good luck...

103

youngroman
ID: 59242611
Tue, Aug 03, 2004, 19:19

final differences to RIFL :
(1) one category for ret-yardage (including PR+KR), we have to use a different ratio (1/15 ?)
(2) 2-pt conversion scoring different for pass(1) vs. rush/recv(2), we should use the standard 2 pts
(3) no doubleheader (we will see in RIFL if this makes a significant difference)
(4) different playoff-type, top 8 W/L-record advance
(5) free agents have to be set manually on waivers each week (depending on used hosting-site)
(6) draft type (if Dougs league will become a live draft)

I assume we use yahoo for the qualifiying leagues because it is the most common (and free) site and has nearly all necessary features implemented (if you find an other free site post it here and I will check the supported features). so we only have to vote for (1) which ratio should be used.

if Doug finds enough managers to do a live draft this would be fine, the second league (where I could be commish) would be a slow draft here at the forum and will start in the week of Aug 16-20, the earlier the better. I don't want to start earlier then Aug 16 so we can get some more infos from training camps and preseason games.
leagues and draft order should be set a week earlier so that all managers can prepare themselves for the draft

potential commishs:
dgrooves, Doug, youngroman

here an updated list of interested managers (26 so far):
Art of Monk, Baldwin, Bandos, beastiemiked, BoNkA, Da Bomb, dgrooves, Doug, dwfffan, holt, kev, loki, Pancho Villa, Peter N., Pops, Slowhand, Species, TaRhEElKiD, The Beezer, Toral, Tree, Twarpy, wazaaap_guy, WiddleAvi, wiggs, youngroman

105

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Tue, Aug 03, 2004, 22:33

So I guess thats supposed to mean Im out as commish. Thanks for letting me know before I paid for that league on Xpert Leagues.

107

loki
Dude
ID: 4211201420
Wed, Aug 04, 2004, 07:35

i will be away on vacation until 8/10/04 and therefore will not be able to check the boards. therefore i just wanted to reconfirm my interest in participating.

108

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Thu, Aug 05, 2004, 02:26

Update: So far I've got 4 takers (5 including myself) for a live draft, with I think option #2 (Thursday) as the only that works for everyone. I'll give it until the end of the week to get more interest... otherwise I think we'll have to pass on a live draft.

109

Guru
ID: 330592710
Thu, Aug 05, 2004, 12:19

I just read through this thread for the first time. Your rules sound fine.

It's quite possible that we will adjust some of our scoring formulas for next season as well. But we'll wait until after the season to see what seems most appropriate.

Regarding my decision to use both Team D and IDP: I actually have played in a league that used both. I don't see why it is an issue. Beyond that, I do know that the drafts for the invitational leagues are widely followed, and by having both, we provide something of interest for other leagues that use only one or the other.

However, while the draft is an important aspect of this league, it is important to me that there be a competitve league throughout the season. Mock drafts without follow-through are of limited value, IMHO. People making draft picks need to have a sustainable vested interest in each pick.

Regarding qualifying for next year: If there are 2 RIFC qualifying leagues, then the top X finishers in each league would receive bids into next year's RIFC. For example, if there are 6 slots open in the RIFC next year, then probably the top 3 finishers in each QL would get an invite.

For subsequent years, we will also try to stratify the QLs into a AAA and AA league. Those who get dropped from the RIFC would be eligible to join the AAA league. The rest of the slots in the AAA league would be filled by the upper division teams in each of this year's QLs. Those finishing nearer the bottom of the QLs and those coming in from outside would populate the AA league(s) for year 2.

So, even if you don't finish high enough in the QL this year to move up, you still have an incentive to keep your ranking as high as possible to qualify for the AAA league next year. (We'll be using the same frameowrk for the other sports as well).

110

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Thu, Aug 05, 2004, 12:53

I would be up for a live draft if on the right day....

Anything is fine with me.

THK

111

holt
ID: 497552
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 03:05

well - I'm not going to take the time to go back and read this whole thread right now.

I want to play in one of the qualifying leagues, and I prefer a slow draft on the forum. quick drafts are of a lesser quality in my opinion. I really enjoy slow drafts, and I just won't commit to a specific draft time.

I want the rules to be exactly the same as the rifc - or at least as close as possible. in ribc we all use the same rules formats and because of this we can go in and compare our stats to teams in the other leagues, which is nice.

if someone who is familiar with this thread can give a quick synopsis (or start a new thread to finalize things) that would be nice.

DON'T JOIN ANY RIFC-RELATED LEAGUE JUST SO YOU CAN DRAFT. STAY ACTIVE THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE SEASON. I really think we need a thread that tracks roto-guru members who abandon their teams. we want competition - not quitters.

112

Baldwin
ID: 53631254
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 05:32

I can make anything other than Monday or Thursday afternoons. I'd vastly prefer a slow draft but I'm in no matter what you chose.

113

Baldwin
ID: 53631254
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 05:34

I'd recommend doing it on Yahoo if you ask me.

114

youngroman
ID: 206491016
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 09:21

I created one of the qualifying leagues on yahoo and will send out e-mails to all managers who left their e-mail-address (Baldwin, Da Bomb and dgrooves are missing). If you don’t want to post your e-mail here just send me your address to youngroman@hotmail.com and you will get an invitation

Check your mail-accounts and join if you want to be in my league. I assume that Doug will also commish a league (possibly a live-draft, see posts 96/108 for details).

Rules of the league are nearly the same as RIFL and have been approved by Guru in post 109, the only changes are listed in post 103.

Infos on the waiver-/free-agent-pickup-handling:
After the first game of the week has started I will set all available players on waivers (until Wednesday). In this period you can claim your players, After that you can make free agent pickups until the start of the first game of the week.

Draft procedure:
until Mon, Aug 16 – join league
until Wed, Aug 18 – pick the draft order (like RIFL, for pick order I need 2 sets of random numbers from 1-13)
Wed, Aug 18 – start of 20 round snake draft, I’m counting on an average of one round per day, so that we finish a few days before the season starts, clock between picks would be 8 hours between something like 8am and 10pm ET, it should be possible for everyone to check 2 times per day, if not you can send your queues to me or other managers in the league
Thu, Sep 9 – start of season

if you have additional questions feel free to post them here

115

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 09:41

Check your mail-accounts and join if you want to be in my league. I assume that Doug will also commish a league (possibly a live-draft, see posts 96/108 for details).

Im sorry, but what the f***. I started this thread and said I would commish. I created a Yahoo league, but with their waiver wire problems said I probably will buy a league at Xpert Leagues. Now youve decided Im out as commish?

In post 94 you said you would step backward if someone else were to step foward, but now youre just shoving me aside.

116

youngroman
ID: 206491016
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 09:43

dgrooves, if you still want to commish the league (and I misread your post 105) do it and I am out

I only want to keep this thing going so that we can start this soon.

Sorry if I offended you.

117

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 09:51

105 was sarcasm, and although I know it can be difficult to tell things like that from posts on a message board, I tried to make the sarcasm obvious. Post 103 seemed like your first attempt to force me out as commish and I was a little pissed.

118

youngroman
ID: 206491016
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 10:00

now I understand - as said before I only wanted to keep things going and followed the discussions in the RIFL thread and wanted to help us to see what issues we would have when using a different hosting site (like yahoo).

if you end up with something other then my suggestions I would be fine.

after this, it looks like you and Doug would be the commishs of the first 2 qualifying leagues.

119

The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 11:58

dgrooves

I'd be happy to chip in $10 on an Xpert league. Avoiding the waiver wire headaches would be well worth in IMO.

120

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:04

Alright, I read through this thread again and have an updated list of interested owners:

dgrooves
Peter N.
TarheelKid
wiggs
kev
Doug
WiddleAvi
dwfffan
youngroman
Baldwin
Toral
loki
Pops
holt
Twarpy
beastiemiked
Art of Monk
Slowhand
Species
Bonka
wazaaap_guy
The Beezer
Da Bomb
Pancho Villa
Bandos

That makes a head count of 25 which presents a problem for us. 1 too many for 2 12-team leagues and 3 too few for 2 14-team leagues. I also wonder how much consideration we should give to a third league. The reason I ask is that its easier to have 3 12-team leagues than 2 14-teams 1 12-team league.

Everyone except Baldwin, wazaaap_guy, Da Bomb, and Bandos has left their email address.

121

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:07

That would be much appreciated Beezer. Once we split up into 2 leagues I guess I'll give you my PayPal address or something. Thanks.

122

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:07

I really don't like the idea of a slow draft and have never done one before because it's a lot harder to keep track of, but I guess I'll give it a try. I think it'll be worth it, plus it's a new experience.

123

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:18

Maybe a few of us can chip in for the Xpert leagues. I'm willing to send $10 to help pay. What I like is we can do a slow live draft with time limits (if chosen) and suspend it between certain hours. I also like that you can trade draft picks for other picks or players. So I'm definitely in support of chipping in for these leagues. If we can get a few people to send $5-10 we should be fine.

125

holt
ID: 497552
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:32

maybe there could be one league that does slow draft and one that does a live draft.

I'm not interested at all in a live draft.

I don't know how many teams are in the rifc but I think we should should stick to the same number. I don't think we should change anything from their format unless absolutely necessary.

maybe only 25 have shown interest so far - but fantasy football is just barely starting up. baseball is in full swing and a lot of us just aren't in the habit of checking the football board yet. maybe someone could post something in the baseball forum that will let everyone know that these q-leagues are being set up.

126

The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:34

Good points holt. I'd like to stick to 14 if at all possible. I'd propose that we get 14 started on a slow draft that want to do that, then wait for 14 to kick off a live draft, since it won't require as much time.

I'd like to be in a slow draft league but will play either format.

127

youngroman
ID: 206491016
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 12:45

just signed up at Xpert leagues to check their game options and noticed that a combined D/IDP is not possible. the plus they have is a bunch of scoring options and a better waiver system.

I also saw that a league at Xpert-leagues costs the same as a league at Fanball (which Guru wants to use for RIFL). so Fanball would be an option too.

I wouldn't mind to pay a few bucks to get more options, get more identical to RIFL, get a better waiver-system and possibly a live-scoring-option too

128

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 13:50

Yea, Im not sure I really understand the point of having a Team D and IDP. I asked what that question in post 90 and Guru's response was "Regarding my decision to use both Team D and IDP: I actually have played in a league that used both. I don't see why it is an issue."

Not exactly the response I was expecting from Guru considering that he invoked "Guru Privilege" to force the RIFC to use both team D and IDP.

Guru gave the invites the choice of team D, IDP, or both. When he first declared they'd be using both (post 33 in the "RIFC - League Parameters" thread) only 2.5 of 12 owners voted to use both. Also, 2 had said they did NOT want to use both.

129

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 14:01

But, dgrooves, the split on those who wanted to use one or the other was pretty even, so there seemed to be no clear cut favorite.

I thought I stated my reasons in 90. The vote was split (even though not many opted for both). I didn't see any downside to using both. And for those who follow the draft, it provides some information for those who are using one, the other, or both.

I certainly have no objection if a QL wants to use only team defense or IDP.

I don't understand why you're making such a big deal over this. There is no inherent conflict in using both. With only 4 defense slots (one team, 3 IDP), I still think defense is underrepresented vs. the real game.

Get over it.

130

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 14:11

Alright, you can get mad if you want, but I think I raised a vaild question only to receive, what I took to be, a flippant response.

Im not trying to make a big deal about this. It is simply that it is an uncommon roster setting and I wanted to know what made it appealing. FWIW, I asked the same question to the guy who plays in a league that starts 2 kickers.

131

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 14:11

Hmm...I just entered a Yahoo league set up by Young Roman. My team name is the Fantasy Thugs.

How did we split all the managers?

THK

132

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 14:14

Ok...just re-read the thread. Just keep me informed when things get sorted out!

THK

133

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 15:30

dgrooves - I guess what I find puzzling is why this seems to be a "controversial" decision for some. I realize that some sites don't provide the capability to use both, which so far is the only criticism I've heard that seems to have any validity.

All you offered in opposition is, "I've never played in a league with both of them and I really don't see why using both is appealing."

It seems to me that's no less flippant than what you inferred as my rationale.

I'm done. Feel free to have the last word if you want it. (BTW, one of the nice features of "Guru privilege" is that flippant rationales are sufficient!) ;-}

134

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 18:52

Guru, I think youve misunderstood my posts. Im not arguing for or against leagues that use team D and IDP. You said youve played in leagues that use both before and I simply wanted to know what made you want to use that roster configuration again. It must have been enjoyable enough to make you use the "Guru Privilege".

My intent wasnt to voice opposition, offer criticism, or start a controversy. Rather, I just wanted an answer to my question: what makes a league that uses team D and IDPs appealing? That isnt intended to be a rhetorical question or one that implies that such a league wouldnt be appealing.

I like to try new quirks in my leagues every once in a while and I would like to know the rational behind this one. If Ive been rude, I apologize; its only that I felt I was blown off in post 109.

135

Filthy Rich
ID: 315411012
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 19:39

I believe he already answered.
"And for those who follow the draft, it provides some information for those who are using one, the other, or both."

If anyone following the draft has team D in their pools it's nice to be able to see where some of the top dogs rate certain D's and that goes for the IDP's too. I find that following this draft and reading the rationales is a good complement to using expert opinions and your own.

136

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 20:07

I dont agree. I think he was saying that was a nice benefit, but the real reason is that its a compromise as there was a fairly even split between those who wanted team D and those who wanted IDP.

I would just like to hear, from someone who has played in a league with both, why they liked it.

137

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 20:26

To be clear, I did it for both reasons -
1. A majority of people chose team def, and a majority chose IDP. Even though only a couple chose both, it seemed that going with both was the best reflection of the league's sentiment. Clearly, there was no dominant viewpoint, which was the major purpose of the voting process.

2. I did think that the benefit of covering both bases for draft observers was a valid issue. My exact wording above is "Beyond that, I do know that the drafts for the invitational leagues are widely followed, and by having both, we provide something of interest for other leagues that use only one or the other." I don't know why you don't think that sounds like a "real reason".

Sorry if I reacted harshly to your question, but I thought I answered your question non-flippantly, and was taken aback by your "Not exactly the response I was expecting from Guru" comment. In fact, the only flippant element of my response (that I had played in a league with both before) was strictly in response to your comment that you hadn't.

No harm, no foul. Case closed.

138

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 20:33

But why did you like playing with both? Thats the only thing Ive been trying to find out since two Mondays ago.

139

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 21:02

I guess I just don't understand.

What's not to like? What would be objectionable about it?

I like playing team defenses.
I like playing IDP.
Each has its own idiosyncrasies.

So why would I (or anyone) object to playing both in the same league? Why should the use of one preclude the use of the other?

140

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 21:40

Like I said before, it isnt intended to be a rhetorical question or one that implies that such a league wouldnt be appealing.

I have played in leagues that do and do not use decimal scoring. I like the leagues that use decimal scoring because I feel the scores more accurately reflect the players performance. I also sometimes think that non-decimal leagues "cheat" players, and thus my team, out of points.

You have played in leagues that use team D or IDP, and leagues that use both. What was good/positve/fun/enjoyable about the leagues that used both?

Thanks in advance.

141

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 22:04

It just seems to add a lot more depth and possibilities between having players from your team D and what matches there are with your opponent. I mean..they could have Manning who is playing your team D while you also have a corner from your team. An interception by that corner would be triple points.

142

Guru
ID: 330592710
Sat, Aug 07, 2004, 22:17

More variety.

Your decimal vs. non-decimal scoring example is not relevant. You can't have that both ways. You either do it one way or the other. (I suspect that non-decimal scoring is a historical artifact of the days when a lot of leagues were still scored by hand.)

But team D vs. ISP are not mutually exclusive facets. They are completely separate slots, with no dependent relationships.

Team D can be much more influenced by matchups. You often want to have a few team Ds available to you each week, in order to exploit the better matchup.

IMHO, IDPs are much less matchup dependent - much like many offensive players. Of course, there are matchup situations that you might want to avoid, but for the most part, you would not stock your bench with many extra IDPs in order to take advantage of the best matchup. However, because there are so many IDPs available vs. the number of slots taken in any league, the free agent pool for IDPs is much deeper.

Consequently, each has distinct strategic issues in fantasy team management. While they both score points primarily from defensive stats, there really isn't much similarity in the way they are managed. And, by using both, you get the variety provided by each.

143

Hubble
ID: 40637100
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 02:51

If there is room i'll jump in

Thanks

144

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 07:48

Thanks for the response Guru, but I really dont understand why you felt the need to rip my example. I provided it just to show someone what kind of info I was looking for, not to be a 1-to-1 correlation to the team D-IDP issue. It wasnt an analogy, so I didnt worry if it was apt or not.

If youre still angry about my previous posts, I apologize again. I hold no animosity towards you and I hope you dont hold any towards me.

145

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 14:44

I don't think he intended to "rip" your response... I think he was just illustrating that a preference of decimal vs. non-decimal scoring is akin to a preference for 12 vs. 14 team leagues, or a point per reception vs. no point per reception, or other such things.

But the Team vs. IDP preference is funadmentally different because there's no "vs." in the first place. If someone asked me "Why do you like playing in league with only 1 starting TE (rather than 2) and decimal scoring?"... my answer wouldn't have anything to do with the combination of those two specific things. I'd say, "Because I like decimal scoring, and because I also like only having 1 starting TE". It's taking two separate quetsions, and combining them into one.

So back to the issue at hand, I think the way he's approaching this is "Do we like Team D?" Yes. OK, so let's include it. "Do we like IDP?" Yes. OK, so let's include it.

This is a different approach than the question you are asking: "Why do you prefer a league that combines Team/IDP over one that doesn't?" It's certainly a valid question and way of approaching the issue, but that doesn't mean that others are necessarily thinking about it that way, and as such I might be hard-pressed to answer that question in any way that is satisfactory to you (because it is basically asking two separate questions from my perspective). I won't speak for him, but I believe Guru is taking the same approach to this question.

Just tyrin' to help sort it out...

BTW, I've still only got 6 interested in a live-draft, so I think that idea is dead. Would prefer to have 14 sure- fire managers for a slow than need to "encourage" several managers into live drafting... since they might not be as into the league as a result, etc.

146

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 16:26

Thanks Doug, but I already understood his point. My point is that the relevancy of my example is irrelevant. All Ive been looking for this whole time is "I liked playing in a league that used both team D and IDPs because ...".

First I wanted to know out of curiosity; now I want to know if its worth finding a league hosting site other than Xpert Leagues.

147

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 18:02

Well..there's always Fanball which is what the main league is going to use currently. Same price, not sure feature wise.

I'd prefer to draft live, but I'd be fine with a slow live draft directly on the league site instead of a forum thread draft. IIRC, you can do that in Fanball and I know you can in Xpert.

148

holt
ID: 497552
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 19:12

bonka - any idea what the time limit per pick would be?

149

Doug
Sustainer
ID: 2730280
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 19:39

OK.... just in case my answer wasn't abundantly clear I shall phrase it in your format:

"I liked playing in a league that used both team D and IDPs because I like using team D, and I like using IDPs".

151

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 19:48

So now were 2 away from 2 14-team leagues. Once we get those two, we can split up the leagues and go from there.

152

The Beezer
Leader
ID: 191202817
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 20:00

If it's the same price and the same site the RIFC is using, I'd prefer to use Fanball and have the scoring rules the same as the RIFC. It would make for more meaningful comparisons with the primary league.

153

Baldwin
ID: 53631254
Sun, Aug 08, 2004, 23:45

Here's my e-mail addy. Again I am interested in the slow-draft option.

154

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 02:17

Well the time limit would have to be decided on. Xpert you can set it to whatever you'd like, and I think on Fanball too. You can also close it during certain hours too.

155

TaRhEElKiD
ID: 40612721
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 02:19

All I know is a slow draft is going to take awhile. We need to get moving, don't we?

THK

156

Bandos
ID: 466213116
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 08:43

I got an invite and joined youngromans Yahoo league.
When's the draft start?

157

holt
ID: 497552
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 09:16

I'd like to play in the same league that bandos and youngroman are in. we're in the same ribc qualifier league - along with pops and doug.

158

Doug
ID: 57352917
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 14:05

I'm going to officially declare the potential live draft league dead due to insufficient number of interested parties. Since both dgrooves and youngroman have volunteered to commish leagues, so I will gladly join one of theirs. I also sent emails back to the people who had expressed interest in the live draft to make sure they knew it wouldn't be happening.

dgrooves, is there any chance you will be hosting your league on the Fanball site? Is there any advantage to using a different site (like XPert)? Will you be using the same set of scoring rules as the main RIFC league, or are you planning to make adjustments? Thanks!

159

youngroman
ID: 59242611
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 14:16

question: how many of you are willing to pay 5$ to use Xpert-Leagues or Fanball instead of Yahoo?

160

Doug
ID: 57352917
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 14:18

I'm willing to pay for Fanball.

161

Art of Monk
ID: 32531249
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 14:41

I am willing to go along with whatever, but would prefer yahoo. My money leagues start adding up.

162

WiddleAvi
ID: 5470911
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 14:45

Like Art Of Monk - I would go along but also prefer Yahoo because I spend enough money on other leagues.

163

wazaaap_guy
ID: 3959822
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 14:50

i'd prefer a free yahoo league.

164

Pops
ID: 526451614
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 17:10

I would definitely prefer free, but if pay leagues are the only option avialable i'm still in.

165

Toral
ID: 296551812
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 17:27

I'd prefer Yahoo!. It's free and I'm comfortable with it.

166

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 17:40

I'm willing to pay.

167

Hubble
ID: 40637100
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 17:59

And me ! here is my e-mail

etienned@pretech.qc.ca

Pops, Doug, Bandos.. etc... These guys are good sport... Only one i don't want is Holt... he knows why :)

Hubble

168

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 18:19

I was wondering what that Yahoo invite was for! LMAO.

I'm cool with Yahoo OR Fanball - as a matter of fact I have an open Fanball team I haven't placed yet.

I guess I'll see you guys in youngroman's league.

169

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 18:35

Well there doesnt seem to be an overwhelming interest in having a pay league, so I guess it will make sense for both leagues to be hosted at Yahoo.

Does anyone know a way around Yahoo's waiver wire system? I dont think any of us want to use what they've got in place (any player not dropped is first-come, first-served).

170

WiddleAvi
ID: 582361912
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 19:59

For waiver wire I think there should be a thread here every week where everyone can place waiver requests and then based on record (or in case of tie, points) the waiver will be decided and that person can go ahead and make the claim on yahoo.

171

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 20:11

As I said before, I dont have the free time anymore to administrate such a system.

In post 114, youngroman said he would be placing all the available players on waivers after the first game of the week. Ive never tried doing anything like that on Yahoo. Is it possible? Is it time-consuming?

172

Tree
ID: 176431421
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 20:52

honestly, i think we're stuck with Yahoo's system.

i don't like the idea of posting waiver claims AT ALL. sometimes you see a gem, and maybe no one else will see him. you post it publically, and someone else can do research, and bang....

173

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 20:58

I definately agree with that Tree.

I just realized that you werent on my last list of interested owners, so the head count should be 27. Sorry about that.

174

wolfer
Sustainer
ID: 18639422
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 21:18

If you still need a 28th, I am game.

175

dwfffan
ID: 2746319
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 22:03

I am game for $5. ( or whatever it takes )

176

Trip
Donor
ID: 13961611
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 22:44

I would like to renew my interest in this league. I have three conditions. I do not want to use Yahoo! to host the league. The waiver claim issue is to great an issue to ignore. I do not pay to use Yahoo's live scoring service ($9.95), but if you use fanball, live scoring is included in the league fees(>$5). It is worth it. I will happily set up and co-commish a league using Fanball, I have a paypal account setup and can accept payments from the individual league members. I do not have the time at this point in my work/social life to do justice to any kind of draft commentary. If this is a requirement of the league, I cannot oblige. I can make an attempt but it may be lame, especially due to the fact that I am not too familiar with using IDP's in a league, the strategies which involve their use, and my workload is double for the next month. This was one of the funnest parts of my participation in the RIBC but I do not have the time at the moment to contribute to the degree which I would like. The last condition which I have is that this be a slow draft. Finally, there are 3 people already volunteering to commish a league. I will not move on unless one of these three people want to team up with me and use Fanball for their league.

Someone drop me a note.

177

Tree
ID: 176431421
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 22:53

dgrooves - i think i'm confused. what league did i sign up for already on yahoo? wasn't that this Qualifying league?

maybe we need more than one thread?

and i'm not interesting in paying to play. why pay, when you can do it for free?

and personally, i don't get the big deal about the waiver wire issue..

178

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 22:58

I dont know what league you signed up for. We should probably have more than one thread, but it may make sense to sort out the league hosting issues first. Then we can have a thread per league.

Most who play a league at Yahoo agree their waiver wire system is garbage. After the draft, and for the rest of the season, anyone who isnt dropped from a team is always a free agent. This means that the first person to get to their computer will get the A. Boldin's, R. Johnson's, and D. Davis' of this year. I dont think anyone would (or could) make the argument that this is a good or fair system.

179

Bags @ work
ID: 4675419
Mon, Aug 09, 2004, 23:45

dgrooves, is it to late to throw my name in for a spot. I am can go the free or the pay route.

No word on the Hardcore keeper league? I see a few of the HKL guys over here and would like to play again.

180

art of monk
ID: 59610240
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 00:43

I think we can work out the waiver wire thing. I commished a hoop league and I had the power to remove players from an owners team. I could lock players from making FA pickups. Just make a rule that no FA pickups until Weds. If an owner wants a player post on league website on Tues. and then pickups are made weds based on priority. After Thurs. FA pickups are free game.
Paying for site. I am still whatever. I am commishing another league and might be moving to fanball.

Several owners here are also involved in the HCKL. Which might need some new owners, I say we boot owners if we don't hear from owners by 15th and get replacements. Move it to yahoo or fanball.

181

Matt S
ID: 34945140
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 00:50

Count me in also. I'd prefer the status quo with a free yahoo league...

Matt S

182

LiLPeeper
ID: 12723100
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 01:26

interested in playing if u still have room...

183

dgrooves
ID: 513181020
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 08:27

Here's the updated list of interested managers:

dgrooves
Peter N.
TarheelKid
wiggs
kev
Doug
WiddleAvi
dwfffan
youngroman
Tree
Baldwin
Toral
loki
Pops
holt
Twarpy
beastiemiked
Art of Monk
Slowhand
Species
Bonka
wazaaap_guy
The Beezer
Da Bomb
Pancho Villa
Bandos
Hubble
wolfer
Bags
Matt S
LiLPeeper

That makes 31. Perhaps Guru should decide who the 3 are that must wait for a 3rd league to start up? Although there are a few names I dont really recognize, I certainly wouldnt feel comfortable saying who is and isnt in the first 2 qualifying leagues.

If someone would like to team up with Trip to commish a league on Fanball, I'll step aside as commish of one of the league. In that case, I would also be willing to chip in the 5 or so dollars to play in that league.

184

WiddleAvi
ID: 5470911
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 10:38

youngroman - Well we now have 14 people in the Yahoo league. We should probably go ahead and figure out the draft order and then get started drafting being thats it's a slow draft. How many rounds are we going ?? What are the final position requirements ??

185

Tree
ID: 76471215
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 11:04

i guess it was young roman's league i was invited into... - is that a qualifying league? i figured it was this league. lol..help!

186

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 11:37

Also, about leaving people out. I'd say a first come, first serve basis. Only fair way to do it.

I just tried creating a list of who seems to be willing to pay for a Fanball/Xpert and I've come up with the following:

BoNkA
Trip
dwfffan
Species
Pops
WiddleAvi
Doug
The Breezer

Now I'm not saying that's right, some of those guys might not want to and then there might be some not listed that are willing to pay. Just what I got from skimming the last couple of posts. If it is right, however, we have 8 people and would need 6 more to set up a league.

187

WiddleAvi
ID: 4356159
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 11:40

Bonka - I already joined youngroman's yahoo league so unless that is being switched over......

188

Baldwin
ID: 53631254
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 11:54

I received an invite to the you_roman's Custom League in Yahoo. Is that related to the league being discussed in this thread?

189

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:04

I too have assumed you_roman's league is this RIFC Qualifying League.

190

holt
ID: 497552
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:06

crap! the yahoo league is already full? this thread is just too huge. I've been trying to keep up with this but I still wasn't aware that an actual league was in place at yahoo.

I saw a yahoo football e-mail but figured it was just junk-mail and ignored it. damn it.

191

Pops
ID: 526451614
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:22

I don't want to begin the complaining here but I thought Youngroman's league had temporarily been shelved as he was going to step aside in favor of dgrooves.

I realize I will still be able to play in a league, but as per my stated preference, the free league is/was definitely more desireable.

Sadly (w/ some of the back and forth that took place earlier), i've read every post on this thread since it's inception, so I would really not like to be left out of a Yahoo league at this point.

If we are keeping it how it is however, I understand...looks like I just missed the boat.

192

holt
ID: 497552
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:37

yeah - I'm not real happy about this. been following this thread for almost a month, but somehow I missed the boat too.

I went back through this thread and found youngroman's announcement that he started a league, but now I remember blowing it off until further notice for the same reason that pops mentioned.

didn't know there was gonna be some kind of race to go sign up. what's the point of even creating the league before the draft is done?

thanks for sending out more than 14 invites to a 14 team league!!!

193

Toral
ID: 296551812
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:48

See post 114.

194

beastiemiked
Sustainer
ID: 03531815
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:53

I didn't get in either holt. I'd like to still play in a qualifying league but I'm not going to pay for one when Yahoo will work.

195

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 12:57

If an "Official" RIFC Qualifier League is opened on Fanball, I will be happy to bequeath my spot in youngroman's Yahoo league to someone else. I have one more Fanball team available to place in a league so I'm not out a red cent (that I haven't spent already! lol)

Sadly, the bidding for that spot starts at a dollar more than the cost of Fanball ;-)

196

WiddleAvi
ID: 5470911
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 13:03

If we are at 31 managers then if we get one more then just create one more yahoo league and make each one 16 teams. Either way it's not a big deal to create another yahoo league.

197

holt
ID: 497552
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 13:16

I also won't be paying.

toral - I've seen post 114, but read all the posts after it. further down in the thread youngroman was still discussing the possibility of using something other than yahoo, and dgrooves was still posting full lists of everyone interested in playing, so it appeared that things were still in the planning stage. it's no wonder that some of us didn't take post 114 seriously.

198

Tree
ID: 76471215
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 13:24

i think this thread needs to end, and a new one needs to begin.

i may have to drop out of young roman's league, after reading post 114...i am out of town from aug. 20 to 22, so i wont be available to draft.

199

Toral
ID: 296551812
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 13:35

I get it holt. I too have been somewhat confused as to what is going on in this thread. From my experience in commishing RQL#1 in baseball, though, my experience is that the early bird gets the worm, in the sense of whoever wants to commish and describes a coherent scoring system and plans, sets up the league, and sends out invites -- gets to do it. (And whoever responds in a timely way gets to be in it.) No affront meant to dgrooves, who is just trying to proceed in an orderly and fair manner, I think, (Heck, who knows, I might switch to his league if I can) but in a confused situation the best way to move from disorder to order is taking the initiative.

Toral

200

BoNkA
ID: 556572721
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 14:57

Well what NEEDS to be done is a final decision on whether or not we will have a Fanball league or not. We might have enough guys to put one together, some of which are in youngroman's yahoo league (like myself), so it would open up slots for others to join. I just really do not want to do a draft in the forums, at least a slow draft in Fanball, you have more information like who's left, can trade picks, etc.

We have to figure this out by tomorrow because we're running out of time. I think anyone who is 100% sure they are willing to help pay for a Fanball (or Xpert) league should post now saying so, so we can get a real count.

I will start in saying I will pay to play in a Fanball league.

201

Bags
ID: 13312922
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:03

I would help pay to play in a Fanball league.

202

Species
Leader
ID: 07724916
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:08

I can do a Fanball league, which would open a spot in youngroman's league.

203

Baldwin
ID: 53631254
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 15:09

I REALLY want in a yahoo league instead of any other provider. If there is any way to accomodate me...

204

Peter N.
Donor
ID: 257161713
Tue, Aug 10, 2004, 17:25

I can do fanball. I think we need to try and mimic RIFC as close as possible. Might as well use the same website they are using!

Forum: footPage 3747Subject: RIFC - Qualifying League

Forum: foot
Page 3747
Subject: RIFC - Qualifying League